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Lito: Keep him or trade him?

Keep him or trade him?
While the general consensus is that Lito Sheppard will be trade and the word is that offers are pouring in... I think it's worth asking whether we should be trading this guy or not.

Domo says keep him

I don't see the logic in adding Samuel and subtracting Sheppard. With both of them in midnight green, along with Sheldon Brown and underrated Joselio Hanson, the Eagles have as good a cornerback quartet as there is in the league.

Trade Sheppard and you've negated a significant portion of the impact of bringing in Samuel. Yeah, you've added a slightly bigger, slightly better, much more durable playmaking corner on the left side. But that still leaves you with Brown on the right side instead of in the slot, where he's always been more effective.

Brown is a tough, hard-working overachiever who hasn't missed a game in his career. But he hasn't played particularly well the last two seasons, particularly on the outside.

I think you'll find little argument that a secondary which includes Asante, Lito, and Sheldon is bound to be one of the best groups in the NFL. Keeping Lito would also allow the Eagles to experiment that fantasy Eagles fans have always had about using Sheldon Brown as a safety. Domowich suggests using Brown in a safety role in the base defense and as a nickel corner when the opposition goes 3 wide. I'd find that kind of creativity from Jim Johnson very interesting...

But of course, on the other side of the aisle are the many reasons trading Lito could make more sense. First and foremost you have the fact that he's missed 14 games over the past 3 years. Can you trust him to stay healthy. You have the reports that he's unhappy with his contract, something signing Asante Samuel to a giant deal isn't likely to help. Most importantly, you have the prospect of what trading Lito Sheppard would get in return.

In my eyes, that's the key here. I agree with Domowich that I'd like to see a trio of Samuel, Lito, and Brown back there. I think that does make for a hell of a secondary... but would Samuel, Brown, and an impact player on offense be preferable? Would those two and some high picks that could contribute other places on the team be preferable?

You tell me. Keep Lito or trade him? If you wanna trade him, tell me what you'd accept back for him.

Personally, I'd trade him for an impact receiver. If we were just getting picks in return, I might have to say no. It would depend on what picks they were, but they'd have to pretty good for me to give up the kind of depth we'd have in the secondary by keeping Lito and I doubt any team is offering us a first round pick for him.

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Lito
I agree with you - I'd trade him for a wide receiver or a 1st rounder but that's about it. Anything less and I think you're better off keeping him and having a terrific secondary. I know he's unhappy with his contract, but I think Andy said on WIP that that's not really a concern. Lito signed the contract - bottom line. If he wanted to go the LJ route and test free agency he had the opportunity. And I don't think the Eagles are averse to the idea of renegotiation - but only if you're breaking franchise records left and right like Brian Westbrook. Lito's not really in a position, having missed the games he has, to ask for a renegotiated contract.

If we do trade him for a wide receiver, I think we'd still need to spend a high draft pick on a cornerback otherwise Hanson stays in the nickel and that isn't good enough.

by ajay on Mar 8, 2008 10:21 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd prefer to keep him
I think we'd be better off keeping him as long as we can 1) keep Samuel, Brown, and Lito happy and 2) get all those guys on the field at once. If we can't do both of those, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth especially with some of the trades that could be worked out.

I also think a healthy McNabb, LJ Smith, Reggie Brown, and Kevin Curtis is a fine starting set at the skill positions especially when defenses are scared shitless of #36.

by yomjoseki on Mar 8, 2008 10:57 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And if the defense is making plays
It can only be a positive thing for the offense.

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2008 11:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's A Lot of If's
If there was some way to keep Lito, while still keeping all of these top-flight defensive backs healthy, AND obtain an impact receiver then of course the Eagles should keep him.  But the reality of the situation is that 1 of these 3 will become unhappy, with the most likely culprit being Lito.  In addition, I agree that Brown, Curtis, Smith and Westbrook represent a solid tandem at the skill positions.  But, as has been said many times, that tandem may not help in the red zone.  The Eagles offense did not have a problem moving the ball between the 20's last year, it sputtered when it made to the red zone.  Sure, a healthy LJ Smith will help, but it would be naive to think he is the answer to all of the Eagles red zone woes.  For that reason, my answer is trade Lito if the Eagles can get a player in return that answers the dire need for help in the red zone.  
Chris Iafolla Heard in the Cheap Seats http://heardinthecheapseats.com/

by Chris Iafolla on Mar 8, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lito
I think we should trade our 1st and maybe 3rd round picks for Fitz. Our only other REAL needs are at OT and this draft is pretty deep when it comes to that position i think. so maybe draft an OT in 2nd round, while keeping asante, sheldon, lito, but also receiving Fitz. We should just buy superbowl tickets now if that's the case...

by ImSoBrown on Mar 8, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

only for a pro bowl WR
I like lito a lot and after all the conversations I came to this conclution and that is I would onlt deal him for a true elite reciver. and to narrow it down I would really only trade him for fitz givin fitz's age and number.

I look at it in the long run. lito is a verry good player but his injurys hint at a shorter cureer then the averege pro bowl corner. I just see fitz playing for us a lot longer then lito would.

plus I see the advantages of having a reciver like fitz more benificial to the team. he would add an other weapon on offence drawing a double team and leaving a linebaker to cover either LJ or Westbrook. and as we discoused in other threads iw would be difficult to keep all three of our corners anyway and that is with moving sheldon to saftey.

its hard to part with lito but it might be what's best for the team if we trade to a great offencive weapon. if we are offered a first round pick I still would say we have a better chance with lito to get the superbowl. unless its extreamly early.

by NickPampani on Mar 8, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What if?
The Patriots offered you the #7 overall pick for Lito and the #19?

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2008 11:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ugh
i say no to that why on earth would you strengthen what was the best team in the nfl last year. and should make the superbowl the team that could very likely be our opponent esp with that trade

by 0sirys on Mar 8, 2008 12:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah
Andy Reid can pick just as well with the 19th pick as most coaches pick with top 5 picks (as long as he's not picking a wide receiver O.o)

by yomjoseki on Mar 8, 2008 12:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO
i do not see lito being worth a difference of 12 in the picking order. unless we were in dier need of something big and we have a playeer in mind it would be stupid to do something like thet.  There is no one person in the draft that valuble to us

by NickPampani on Mar 8, 2008 2:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very Generous
Jason...slow down my friend. Lito and 19 for the 7? No way...too generous.

by RichieOfAshburn on Mar 8, 2008 4:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not suggesting
It's just one of the things that was floating around out there.

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2008 5:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Value
Here's the thing -- Lito and Sheldon are too good to have one of them sitting on the bench if they're healthy.  

So if you can't convince Sheldon to move to safety it really doesn't make a lot of sense to have them both on the roster.

With that in mind, here's what I were do if I were Banner/Reid:

First -- Try and put a Lito package together to try to acquire Fitzgerald (which I think is unlikely at this point) or Roy Williams (perhaps a better chance).  If this can't be done...

Second -- Talk Sheldon Brown into playing safety.  He could realistically play either safety position.  If he's unwilling...

Third -- Move Lito for whatever you can get.  Unfortunately, keeping him around if he's unhappy could be disruptive.  I really doubt he'd accept the nickel corner position.  I hope I'm wrong.

by BFH on Mar 8, 2008 12:32 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great Problem to Have
For the last week now we have all been speculating on what to do with Lito. Keep him? Trade him? Wow, for once the Birds are in the driver's seat. Trade him for a #1 wideout like Fitz, Williams or Johnson. The package components change as you move down the pecking order. Can't pull it off before the draft? No problem, tons of receivers in this upcoming draft. Draft a wideout and keep Lito. How you use Lito, Asante, Brown, Joselio, Dawk, and Reed would be a lot of fun for JJ to map out and for we fans to watch. If you can't get one of the three ball catchers listed above, then keep Lito

by RichieOfAshburn on Mar 8, 2008 4:33 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would like the Eagles to..
Here's the thing -- Lito and Sheldon are too good to have one of them sitting on the bench if they're healthy.  

So if you can't convince Sheldon to move to safety it really doesn't make a lot of sense to have them both on the roster.

With that in mind, here's what I were do if I were Banner/Reid:

"First -- Try and put a Lito package together to try to acquire Fitzgerald (which I think is unlikely at this point) or Roy Williams (perhaps a better chance).  If this can't be done...

Second -- Talk Sheldon Brown into playing safety.  He could realistically play either safety position.  If he's unwilling...

Third -- Move Lito for whatever you can get.  Unfortunately, keeping him around if he's unhappy could be disruptive.  I really doubt he'd accept the nickel corner position.  I hope I'm wrong."

Yep that about sums it all up...

by topcat6 on Mar 8, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unfortunately
We need to get rid of Lito for the most we can possibly get for him.  His injuries are worrying people and if he has another year like that we won't be able to get anything more than a 4th rounder for him. I love Lito and wish there was a way he can stay, and there may be if Sheldon moves to SS.  But it is time to move on, will everyone still be happy if we keep him this year and he gets injured misses half the season and then we just release him next year.  Wouldn't you rather trade him and get a playmaker I would only trade for a WR/DE because we don't need rookies who won't play next year we need someone who can make a play NOW.

by Whodie126 on Mar 8, 2008 4:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look at the Arizona situation carefully...
Lito is only 1 key chip to be played in the Fitzgerald puzzle (Sorry, Rod Hood and Eric Green is not enough for the Cards to ignore the quality of Lito to upgrade their CB's... the backups to these two guys are effectively street free agents Mike Adams and Demario Minter!)...

In the 2008 NFL draft, a RECORD 53 juniors have come out.  This has really pumped UP the value of this year's picks, while reducing next years pick values somewhat. Arizona will be eyeing players in rounds 1 and 2, making either or both of those Eagle picks quite valuable to the Cardinals... because of all those juniors in the mix, that #2 has more value than it normally would, and all the NFL teams know it!

O-Line- Todd Herremans has been a good starter for the Eagles (with an admittedly down year last year).  Herremans can also play Tackle, where the Cards, literally have no one on there current depth chart behind starters Mike Gandy and Levi Brown.  Max-Jean Giles graded out as a 2nd round pick in the draft 2 years ago, and is now primed to start.  He is an admitted "road-grader" that would look really fine blocking for B-West.  I think Andy has his eyes on a shiny new OL toy in this year's draft, and would therefore part with one of these two valuable commodities in a Larry-Fitz package.

At wr, the Cards have two top ten wr in Fitz and Anquan Boldin.  With Leonard Pope coming on as a top flight TE and potential future target (can't miss that 6'8" frame in the red zone), and with Edge James still one of the upper echelon RECEIVING rb's in the NFL, the Cards are positioned to trade from strength to shore up one of their weaknesses.  Their problem is depth at wr... they will likely lose #3 Bryant Johnson to FA, UNLESS the Eagles come to their rescue and make a swap that allows them, from a salary cap perspective, to resign Johnson.

There is way too much synergy between these two teams to make a deal.  This is most likely to happen, but more likely will NOT happen till right before the draft, when this year's picks become SO valuable, and are magnified in the eyes of football's GM's.  

So, the package needs to be... Lito, a #2, Herremans OR Jean-Gilles, and Reggie Brown.  This helps the Cards at CB tremendously.  It adds a valuable draft pick, a #2 infinitely more valuable than usual because of the flood of juniors this year.  It adds an experienced O-Lineman needed to protect Leinart/Warner PLUS open holes for Edge, at a position of tremendous need for Arizona.  Finally, it helps assuage the loss of Fitzgerald in two ways... First, by adding a starting NFL wr they can use as their #2 or #3.  Second, it gives them financial flexibility to resign their own #1 pick from a few years ago... wr Bryant Johnson.  

For a middling team trying to take the next step... adding 5 impact players (and 4 probable starters) for 1 player, even a great one like Fitzgerald?  Well, the answer comes when you look at the result- A top 3 of Boldin, Bryant Johnson and Reggie Brown, plus the additional help elsewhere in areas of need.   This is a difference making arrangement for Arizona.  I do not believe the Eagles need to yield a #1 to get it done!  We, though, as fans will need to patiently wait till April 26th to see it get done.
1- Kudos to Jason for suggesting Lito + 19 for #7.  This get's what should be a top flight lineman... be he an OT, DE or DT, that would NOT be available at #19.  The beauty of it is you don't have to pull the trigger till the Pats are "on the clock."

1- Possibilities are endless.  How about Lito and Mike Patterson for a top-of-the-line DT, a real force in the middle?  Not that Patterson is chump change, but...

by meangreenmachine on Mar 8, 2008 5:25 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That doesn't make sense
Why would we throw away all that depth? One injury negates the benefits of a trade involving those players.

by yomjoseki on Mar 8, 2008 5:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he is not
it is:

getting rid of lito......we will draft an other corner this year

swaping wide recivers...... fitz for brown

trading over one offencive linemen...... once again we are drafting one.

by NickPampani on Mar 8, 2008 5:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that was perfect.
that is the kind of information and thought i wish more people would give. personly i like the idea of the tread you suggested. i dont however seeing it happening rightbefore the draft. arizone needs thoes players and they need them now as much as leater and yes as time goes by the draft picks value goes up but they know if thay wait that long bryant johnson will be gone.

i said it before and i still belive it. aarizona and the eagles have already agreed to deal lito for fitz. now its only a matter of who goes along with lito that they are arguing about.

by NickPampani on Mar 8, 2008 5:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Umm...
meangreenmachine -- Your post was very well put together and detailed, and I enjoyed it.

But, if you are suggesting a trade of "Lito, Jean-Giles or Herremans, Brown, and a #2" for Larry Fitzgerald -- well, there's no way.

Not even Mike Ditka would be dumb enough to make that trade.

There are exactly two guys in the NFL who might be worth that kind of package -- Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

You simply don't trade that many players of value for a wide receiver, no matter who it is.  The Eagles would laugh at that.  Sorry guys.

by BFH on Mar 8, 2008 6:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

missing link?
we have a pro bowl player at every possition on our team except for wide reciver. could fitz be our missing link and if he is isn't  it worth giving up a couple of backups who we were planning on drafting their replacments anyway to makw possible the most complete team ever

by NickPampani on Mar 8, 2008 6:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow
"How about Lito and Mike Patterson for a top-of-the-line DT?"

Who is this mysterious top-of-the-line d-tackle that is worth two Pro Bowl caliber players?  Maybe if we can build a time machine and get Brian Urlacher the day he was drafted, I'd consider giving up two of our most talented defensive players.  Singlehandedly the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

by king myno on Mar 8, 2008 6:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
I'm interested in seeing how Lito responds to knowing he's expendable. Maybe it'll toughen him up and he'll have a career year. If he reacts well to this situation, there's no reason to get rid of him. I think it's definitely worth keeping him around and seeing how he responds to the situation. The only guy I'd trade Lito for would be packaging him with draft picks for Larry Fitzgerald, but honestly who knows how much he'd help the offense? I wanna see a full year with LJ, McNabb, Curtis and Brown.

by yomjoseki on Mar 8, 2008 5:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Justice + Lito + second rounder?
...for Fitz? Has anyone heard that one?
My brother relayed that to me. I'd go for that...but would Arizona?

by RichieOfAshburn on Mar 8, 2008 7:42 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Response to BFH & king myno & yomjoseki
BFH... Thanks for the complement.  As for the constructive criticism... you have a point.  Perhaps the Eagles would receive a #3 and a Cardinal player in return, too?

The Eagles (and Cardinals) are better positioned to quantify/qualify the supplementary pieces in a mega-trade... but the fact is the Eagles expect to have 12 draft picks this year (compensatory picks are coming for Garcia, Stallworth, Hood and Lewis, and 2 more picks for back ends of trades for Josh Parry and Hank Fraley).  Expect many, if not most of those guys to make the opening day roster.  Yes, some of the picks may be traded, but a team cannot trade compensatory picks.

I believe Andy needs an OL fix... He WILL draft one, and perhaps two or three Offensive linemen.  THere is concern that Winston Justice may not be the answer at LT after Tre retires, and I recently heard rumblings that Shawn Andrews may not want to move over to RT and repace Runyan when he is done.  High caliber tackles are hard to come by... Andy'll be looking for one in this years draaft.  But Justice will be on the roster next year, as will Nick Cole and probably Scott Young.  I believe these guys are all legit backups, at worst.  I have also heard rumblings that Herremans is another player unhappy with his long term deal.  With Jean-Gilles performing well late last year, Herremans, like Lito, could be a valuable, although redundant chip.  The key to all this: With the potential to grab a future hall-of-famer AT ANY POSITION, you need to look at offering fair value in return.  Sometimes, quantity for quality works well for both sides.

As for the critique from king myno regarding packaging Lito and Patterson, for, say... Kevin Williams and a #3 draft pick... Just a couple weeks ago, the week prior to the Birds getting Assante Samuel, Greg Cossell (on 950 AM talking to Jody Mac) referred to Lito and Sheldon being "just guys" at cb.  I disagree, but I really respect Greg Cosell.  If he thinks that, others do too.  Patterson... I see him as a good, but complementary player inside.  I disagree with king myno and do not see a pro bowl in his future.  Kevin Williams?  The guy is a force, and was drafted in '03, so he's not old.  Put him next to Bunkley on third down, and watch the pocket collapse for the DE's.
THAT is one of Andy's fastball's, my friend.

And to yomjoseki- Maybe you're right.  So let's think outside the box.  Perhaps the Eagles could keep Lito and move Sheldon Brown instead.  Of course I'd like to see the Birds have all three guys at cb, but you have to look at what's best for the franchise.  A top line wr, one capable of making the pro-bowl, is just worth more to the team than one of those 3 guys being the best nickel cb in the game.  Armed with all the picks thay've got, they'll be drafting a replacement cb to fill out the nickel position... It all comes down to your preference-
Stud wr plus Assante Samuel plus Lito OR Sheldon plus a draft pick and Joselio Hanson as the nickel and dime, or
Current wr corps plus Samuel/Lito/Sheldon/Hanson-  admittedly a top caliber cb corps
Neither is a bad thing!  But I prefer the former... With all those draft picks in a VERY deep draft, the Eagles DO have the depth to offer a significant package for Mr. Fitzgerald.  And plan B is Roy Williams.  And Plan C is Torry Holt...

by meangreenmachine on Mar 8, 2008 8:26 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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