Eagles lose, drop to 0-2

by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 1:29 AM EDT in News Comment 37 comments

The story in the morning papers, the threads on message boards, the ranting calls to sports radio will inevitably be about the same thing. The play of Donovan McNabb. While I don't want to discount that, because I think that clearly he needs to shoulder a good portion of the blame for the atrocious play of the Eagles offense tonight... I think it's important to note that McNabb is not the only story.

There is a whole lot of blame to go around for this one. Once again, it must start with the coach. The playcalling in this game was simply shocking. We all saw how McNabb looked. He was off target, he was unsure of himself, he was getting pressured fairly well by the Redskins. Brian Westbrook on the other hand was carving the Skins to pieces and the Eagles offensive line was dominant in run blocking. So seeing those two things, let's check out the stat line.

Brian Westbrook - 17 carries for 96 yards. A total of 5.6 yards per rush.

Donovan McNabb - FORTY SIX pass attempts for 5.2 yards per. If you add in the 2 plays where McNabb scrambled and the 3 he was sacked, that makes FIFTY ONE called passing plays.

So not only with a QB that clearly does not look fully healthy & who is woefully inaccurate, but also with receivers that aren't able to get open and when they do dropping easy passes... the Eagles(Reid and Morningwheg) decide they throw the ball 51 times. It literally boggles the mind. Just look at Brian Westbrook's stat line. The Redskins had absolutely no answer for him and yet the Eagles elected to run him only 17 times.

The worst part is that it's not as if the score forced them to abandon the run. Until Washington scored with 12 minutes left, the Eagles were no more than a TD behind. In fact, they even led in the second quarter. While the Redskins continually pounded the Eagles D(who I thought played valiantly) and gave their defense a breather, the Eagles continually threw with no success and went 3 and out. I'd be remiss if I didn't give the Eagles D some credit, they did hold the Redskins tandem of backs under a 100 yards. The interior of the defensive line was fantastic and I thought the linebackers held their own quite well.

So blame McNabb if you'd like. He didn't play well, there's no denying that. However, don't let the other culprits off the hook. The receivers were awful, several times ESPN showed in replays how they just got no separation whatsoever. When they did get open and McNabb actually hit them, they'd drop balls. I haven't been able to find The worst example of this being the Eagles final offensive play in which McNabb hits Curtis for a first down and he can't hold onto the ball after a solid, but not spectacular hit from a safety. A better receiver holds onto the ball right there. This was an awful offensive effort on absolutely all levels, but it has to start with the coach.

51 passing plays, 18 running plays with an injured QB who was off target from the start.

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you nailed it.

Everytime westbrook was handed the ball he looked electric. the line was dominating the line on the runs, pushing forward 2-3 yards each play. Even the nonsense argument that westbrook cant run 25 times a game (he had 25 touches as it was), run buck up the gut. If your gettin 5 yards b/w the tackles, keep pounding.

I thought defense was great, especially considering all the 3 and outs. I thought the front 7 were great. And part of me finds it hard to blame James on some of the 3rd down plays against santana moss... it is santana moss.

I blame Reid. You have a QB who is struggling with accuracy. You have a frickin huge O-line and a running back whos havin an amazing day. However you call 50+ pass plays in a close divisional game.

Ugh... Sometimes the Eagles make me hate life...

by brooksy on Sep 18, 2007 1:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Analysis

However, I'd like to add my spin to your comments.

I agree that was classic Reid playcalling - clearly a problem.

I also think Reid's blindspot with wide receivers is yet again a major problem. Simply put, the Eagles receivers are in the bottom quarter in the league as a contingent.

But I'll finish by saying this: Donovan McNabb is no longer a "franchise" type QB. The injuries have taken their toll. Without decent receivers (just decent, mind you, not great), McNabb no longer has the athletic skills to compensate in a way he once did. He just doesn't run well anymore and has never developed into an accurate passer. He's still an above average QB, but he now needs a very strong supporting cast to be truly successful - which he doesn't have.

With that, I'll finish with this prediction: Kevin Kolb will be the Eagles QB within 12 months, and he will be clearly better than McNabb is and will be wherever he finds himself. Frankly, I'd put Kolb in now - I know this is still considered a crazy piece of analysis, but I really think Kolb is a superstar in the making and is pretty damn good now.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 1:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mcnabb

First, I made no mistake about how I felt about the WRs. They were flat out terrible.

As for McNabb, I have to disagree with your use of "absolutes." It's way too early in just the second game back for a guy coming off major surgery to declare his career over and that he'll never be able to be decent again. I think that's being a bit presumptuous. It's pretty much widely accepted that his surgery takes a full year to fully heal from, and he has a long way to go before he hits that year mark.

The guy is only 30 and if he stays healthy this year I could certainly see him being healthy and back to having the athletic ability to do anything he wants on a football field. Now that said, the long term future for this franchise does lie in the hands of Kevin Kolb and even if McNabb can return form at some point over the next year or 2, I could certainly understand if the Eagles decided to move on.

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by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't want to go too far

McNabb's number one for the rest of this season unless he gets injured or things just get really, really bad.

That said, I think too many Eagles fans still think McNabb was the player he was - potentially - when he won the MVP. He's not. Again, he's still a good quarterback. But he no longer has the athletic quality that made him a star.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I'm saying

Is that I agree that he clearly doesn't have the athletic quality right now and may not this season at all, but I'm not going to see he'll never have it again.

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by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair Enough

But consider this: The Eagles are 1 and 6 in the last seven games McNabb has started.

Without his legs, he is nothing special.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Define really, really bad

If last night isn't it, I don't know what is.

I don't think McNabb is finished as a good QB, but he's clearly not healthy yet.

But I agree with the general premise of this thread...if Reid is going to stick with McNabb, he needs to call a balanced game! Especially with these mediocre-at-best WRs.

(He's also got to be happy with Washington settling for a FG, and not give them a second chance for a TD).

"You say 'groin' and it hurts." -- Mike Quick

by BrianS on Sep 18, 2007 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Playcalling

"Reid is going to stick with McNabb, he needs to call a balanced game!"

Mornhinweg was calling the plays, not Reid.

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he wasn't last night.

Reid was calling the plays.

by brooksy on Sep 18, 2007 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whichever.

I don't care which of them it actually was...as long as they call a balanced game. Either one should be smart enough to figure out that the play calling was terrible last night.

"You say 'groin' and it hurts." -- Mike Quick

by BrianS on Sep 18, 2007 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

In the end it doesn't really matter who calls the plays.

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by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kolb

If McNabb stinks it up a couple more times, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kolb in there after the bye.

McNabb is looking as brutal as Rothelisberger and Culpepper last year.

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook is one of the best

players in the league. No one has an answer for him, and I hope we see fewer carries and touches by him next game.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Sep 18, 2007 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

As much as I think McNabb has lost something, Westbrook is truly a star - and he's not being used like he should be.

For that matter, the running game - ridiculous. No runs by anyone but Westbrook? Ridiculous.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

10 Months...

That's how many months McNabb is away from his injury. It always takes at the very minimum a full year to recover. It's a miracle he's playing, and he probably isn't going to be mobile at all this season.

Yes, he bounced a couple passes, yes, he missed Curtis, who was wide open, on that TD. But this game was not his fault, and it's not time to press the panic button. Play calling and shitty receiver play was the culprit here. BG is right on the money about Westbrook. If they gave him the ball 25 times on the ground he would've finished w/ 150+ yards, and eventually he would've broken one for a TD.

It was stupid to keep putting the ball in the air when nothing was there. It's like everything they learned last year with Garcia under center is completely forgotten at this point.

One last thing about McNabb, and we saw this a little bit tonight. He was always at his best when he was on the move. In the pocket, with time, he always had spotty accuracy. The question is whether he's going to be mobile enough to break the pocket, and make those plays and/or if he's going to be able to sit in the pocket and deliver the ball with more accuracy. I have a feeling he's going to improve a little in both directions, and the receivers have to play better than they have so far, I mean, it's a statistical certainty.

The injuries in the secondary, however, leave me worried after this game.

www.depressedfan.com

by depressedfan on Sep 18, 2007 1:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But its not just Westbrook

Although I'm with you here.

Really, I don't think anyone else had a carry in the game. Thats ridiculous.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buck had one

So more or less, you're right.

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by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hunt

Made inactive to clear a spot for Mahe. Huh?

If Reed and Hunt were active last week, and Reed gets cut for Mahe, why isn't Hunt active?

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If McNabb's not mobile

that's a problem. Its a key part of his game.

He's going to have to adjust.

by BenP on Sep 18, 2007 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was it just me?

Aside from the dropped balls and aside from the fact that they should have used the run more, did it look to anyone else like the receivers were running their routes incorrectly? Or was McNabb at fault there? Of course I think we had receivers so incapable of breaking away from coverage it's quite possible they were running anywhere they could just to get away. What a terrible stinking mess!! It looked like a pee wee football halftime show!

)O(

by myinternets on Sep 18, 2007 7:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't give up on McNabb!

He is a competitive player who is coming off major surgery. Put in Kevin Kolb now? I think you'd be surprised at how poorly he'd do -- not his fault, he does have potential, but I doubt he is ready at this moment. Pre-season is not an accurate forecaster. It troubles me that people give up on the team so quickly -- sure the Eagles lost 2 games they should not have, but life goes on and they will turn it around. And the defense looks better than anticipated.
Sav Rocca will bring out some better punts, Reggie Brown will actually make some plays, and Donovan will press on. Keep the faith!
(Although I have less confidence in the coaches making necessary adjustments) ....

by lbg on Sep 18, 2007 7:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Reid Unteachable?

Whatever happened to the acknowledgments that they needed to balance the attack more? What happened to lettting Mornhinweg have more control/influence over play calling (cause we were clearly seeing Reid dictating the offense last night)?

If nothing else, Reid's beloved play action, which, yes, can be very effective when done right, is a frakking joke when the defense knows full well they aren't going to hand the ball off.

by sdf on Sep 18, 2007 7:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Playcalling

Mornhinweg was calling plays. Reid never covered his face and mike up with the playsheet like he used to when calling plays. He obviously wasn't doing it.

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If that was the case

then it seems like Marty has been brought over to Reid's playcalling habits rather than vice versa. I thought the whole idea (or at least a large part of it) in handing things over to Mornhinweg was that he would call a more balanced attack.

by sdf on Sep 18, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And once more on arrogance

Again this shows that the frugal Iggles (and Reid in particular) think that they can essentially fill any spot with any body and their magical planning will make it all work out. Punt returner? Any body. Wide receivers? One is as good as another.

I'll say it again, since I've been saying it since April: Kolb may be the quarterback of the future (or not), but the arrogance of thinking that they had no needs they could have used their first round pick (yes, not traded down, even to save some cash) towards trying to fill is just mind boggling.

by sdf on Sep 18, 2007 8:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Time to Panic

Only 10% of teams that start 0-2 end up in the playoffs.

Since 1988, 154 teams have started 0-2, and only 13 of them managed to turn it around and get 10 wins or more, while only 17 have made the playoffs. Only 6 have gotten 11 or more wins, only 5 have made the Championship game, and just 3 have made the Super Bowl. The average of the 0-2 teams was just 6 wins at season's end, with a standard deviation of approximately 2 wins. For fans of a team that has started 0-2, get ready for a fun season ending somewhere between 4-12 and 8-8.

The record is even worse for more recent seasons. In the 10 years since 1997, 85 teams have started 0-2 and just 8 made the playoffs, with just 3 having 11 or more wins (98 Jets, 01 Patriots, 03 Eagles). Since the 03 Eagles squad turned around to 12-4, just 1 team out of 25 has made the playoffs after opening 0-2, last year's 9-7 Chiefs.

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the glass may be half full

Based on what I've seen, the Eagles are the best of the ten 0-2 teams. Given your 10% stat, that puts them in the playoffs.

by dave in san mateo on Sep 18, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

0-2 Teams

As many as 3 0-2 teams have made the playoffs. See 1998 for example. Jets, Cowboys, Cardinals I think.

OTOH, we've also had several times with two years in a row where none of them made it (2004, 2005 for example).

by Andrew on Sep 18, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

McNabb's passing style

On the move and in play action, he's much more accurate. In the pocket, he has two throwing speeds- fast and hard. Not to let the WR's off the hook, they need to catch the damn ball, but nearly every bad throw McNabb made last night he was standing still and threw a rocket.

I'm sorry, but the man just has no "touch" when he's in the pocket. I can't remember him ever floating a ball. Many of the drops last night bounced off the reciever's hands. I don't see this changing.

by AZ Iggle on Sep 18, 2007 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No excuse

Kevin Curtis is being paid $32 million dollars, he has to catch a ball thrown at any speed.

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by JasonB on Sep 18, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reggie Brown, too.

Reggie looks almost like a #1 WR when McNabb's not playing, pathetic when he is.

I don't think he was this bad last year, but he definitely was much better w/Garcia. He was also more successful as a rookie w/Macmahon, but I'll chalk that up to getting most of his PT then since Owens was gone.

"You say 'groin' and it hurts." -- Mike Quick

by BrianS on Sep 18, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once again, horrible clock management

Andy Reid must be the least competent coach in the league when it comes to clock management. The worst thing about it is that season after season it doesn't get any better.

Three minutes left to go in the game, they're on the Redskins' side of the field, with 2 time outs plus the two minute warning. Rather than giving yourself two shots at winning by attempting to score (succeeding or failing), surrendering the ball and using time outs and the 2 minute warning, and having a second shot at a tie or win, they waste their time outs.

Good coaches would've had a second play in mind when the 3rd and 5 pass failed, not had to waste a time out because it was 4th and 5 and the next play was "suddenly" important.

For all the great things Reid's done while he's been here (and they have been many), his game management is horrible!

by uzebra on Sep 18, 2007 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Aside from Gocong....

being a major liability all of my fears are coming true.
(I'm still giving him time to suck)

Curtis can't beat press coverage or get deep
Reggie Brown can't catch or get open consistently
It hurts you when you have no return game (especially when you can't even catch)
Will James is a major drop off from Rod Hood
Jevon Kearse really does suck
McNabb doesn't appear to be anywhere near 100%
We have no depth at Safety

Things could still turn around but it looks like our off season
was horrific.

Imagine if:
We keep Stallworth and get Curtis (or perhaps a real #1 reciever)
Get a real returner
Keep Rod Hood
Cut Kearse use the 6 million to sign someone else
Keep Garcia so he could start for the first part of the season
Move down in the draft to get a Safety or linebacker

We could have and should have done most of these things.
When will we build a team that can actually compete with the top AFC teams? SuperBowl?
I blame Reid!

I've been ready to move on from Reid fo some time but
he gets a FREE PASS from the Owner/Management
much the Bobby Clarke did for years.

The road to victory

by jaybird13 on Sep 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rod Hood

I'm not sure about Hood v James yet. Hood tended to get beat deep as well, he was best in slot just like Will James.

As for Garcia... I'd like to have kept him around, but I doubt Andy would have played him to start the season anyway. At this point I think it's getting clear that it wouldn't have been a idea to give McNabb an extra couple weeks to get himself right. I just don't think Reid would have done it even if he had Garcia.

I agree on Kearse though. He's a shell of his former self.

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by JasonB on Sep 19, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only issue I have with keeping Garcia

is that you would have had to trade McNabb. Let's say Garcia starts 2-0 or 3-0... you really think they could make the switch to mcnabb when he was all the sudden "healthy" ...no way and andy knew that... No way he wanted a situation like that

700 Level

by 700 Level on Sep 18, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Weird

I agree. The irony is drafting Kolb created just the type of controversy -- and a longer-lasting one -- that Reid may have been hoping to avoid.

Between free agency and the draft did McNabb say/do/not do something that changed the Eagles long-term plan at QB? Or is it really just as simple as they say...no one at positions of immediate need that they liked enough to draft that high so they took Kolb.

Sorry...I don't mean to turn this into the X-files. (Win a game, guys, so I don't have to come up with WIP conspiracy theories).

"You say 'groin' and it hurts." -- Mike Quick

by BrianS on Sep 20, 2007 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kolb

Reid is dead on the money with Kolb. Kolb looks like a great prospect in terms of leadership and decision making, and when you get a chance at a young QB prospect, you cannot pass it up. There is no more important position on the field in today's game than QB, and having a top 5 QB even with just average surrounding talent can automatically make you an 11+ win team because a top QB is worth 80+ points of extra scoring over an average guy per year. That's the difference between scoring around 300 points per year (below the league average of 327) and scoring 380+ points per year (top 5 offense team).

Plus, by drafting a great prospect even if you don't immediately need him (and we all know how quick need changes in the Not For Long league), you also deny him to another team. San Francisco was great for a number of years simply keeping Steve Young on the bench and away from a talented competitor that just needed a real QB (say Green Bay before Favre).

by Andrew on Sep 20, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs