A new day, a new perspective

by JasonB on Oct 22, 2007 12:13 AM EDT in News Comment 53 comments

I'll admit that last night I was in a foul mood. A last second loss in that kind of game will do that to you. In addition to just flat out being pissed off, I was dreading the week ahead that I knew was going to be terrible. A week full of ESPN replays of the game, the talking heads on TV & radio...

"It's just going to be awful" I thought.

Then, I came to a realization that gave me some peace. When I was trying to assign blame for this loss I struggled to really find one guy/unit/injury to blame it on.

McNabb? He was inaccurate at times but I didn't think he was particularly bad, 21-34 226 yds and a TD. Not a scintillating performance, but not terrible either.

The defense? Until that last minute, they had played a fantastic game. This unit has still only surrendered 2 TDs in the past 3 games. They aren't playing bad by any stretch.

Mistakes? Nope. No turnovers in this game and 5 penalties for 32. Plus, one of the penalties(the Will James hold) was completely bogus. You'd like less penalties, but 5 isn't a killer.

Special teams? Nah. They kept the ball away from Hester like they wanted to and Sav Rocca placed a brilliant kick on the 3 in his biggest kick of the game. Akers hit every FG he lined up for. Sure, our return game did absolutely nothing as usual but it didn't hurt us either.

Playcalling? I hated the prevent defense at the end and I didn't like some play calls on the last offensive drive... but overall I wasn't screaming at the TV about the play calling like I have some times.

Injuries? I don't think so. I'd put the Giants loss on injuries, but not this one. Quintin Mikell played fine in place of Dawkins and LJ Smith has barely played all year. Plus, it's not as if Schoebel didn't get himself open in the end zone...

After weighing all this in my head and not really being able to assign blame to any one thing I had an epiphany that frankly made me feel better...

We just aren't that good. This team just isn't that good.

I don't think this a team that's underachieving, I don't think they've had bad luck, I don't think injuries have killed them(ala 2005)... I just think they aren't good enough to compete. The Eagles, by not really stepping into the free agent market, trading down in the draft, and taking a long term project with their top pick signaled to us fans that they thought they were already good enough to compete. The reason this season has been so frustrating is because I bought that. I was wrong, so were the Eagles. This team isn't a disappointment, it's just plain not that good.

So, armed with this new outlook I feel a bit different about the season going forward. It's about looking at the future of this squad. Watching the continued growth of our young linebackers and defensive lineman. Can guys that once looked very promising get themselves on track? Reggie Brown, I'm looking at you. Can the young guys who've yet to make an impact show what they can do(Abiamiri, Baskett, Avant, Bradley)? Finally, can we get the old McNabb back by year's end or can we see Kolb? If McNabb gets more and more healthy and is looking back in form by the end of the year, then I'll be happy. Going into next year this team will have a good amount of cap space to spend in free agency and probably a good draft pick. This is a year for every guy on this team to stake his place on this roster going forward. Those guys who don't need to be replaced with proven guys in the offseason. This is the year the youth of this team get to grow up and the veterans like Kearse, Howard, Thomas, Runyan, McNabb ect get to show whether they can still play.

To me that's what this year is about. It's not about playoffs or the division. Maybe it never should have been, but either way we can be sure it no longer is. Don't get me wrong, I still want this team to win every game and I'm still going to be pissed when they lose... I haven't lost my passion, it's just that my expectations have changed.

So what do you Eagles fans think? I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject. If you don't have an account here at BGN, by all means please sign up for one and join the discussion. It's totally free to sign up and the only reason we make you register is to keep out the spammers. I'd love to check the pulse of the rest of the fans. Do you disagree with me? Is the team good enough to win the division or make the playoffs and just not living up to their potential? Let me know. I think this is the major question facing this team going forward.

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keep mcnabb, let others play

before the season, I looked at the eagles roster and thought that this team was on its way to another division title. after they started poorly but then beat detroit, i thought they were back on track. after being yelled at by a drunk bears fan to "move back to colorado" (i live in chicago, and this was a bright guy..) after the heart breaking loss today, I had a change of heart. This loss was a killer. While I don't agree with everyone yelling to bench McNabb and put in Kolb, I think this team needs a bit of a makeover this offseason. WRs that can beat press coverage specifically...younger guys that are talented and not injury prone...I think by the years end McNabb will be back to preinjury form.

the thing I'm most disappointed in this season is the coaching. every game at some point I'm yelling for them to run the ball. 3 minutes left and westbrook is averaging 4 yards a carry, chances are you can run it and end the game. I know reid loves throwing it, but I feel like if this were the balanced offense we were at the end of last season, we wouldn't be sitting at 2-4, thinking of next season. i say let the young guys play more, but let Kolb keep learning the offense before putting him in.

by eagleyosh on Oct 22, 2007 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WRs, again

it always seems to be the problem. the eagles just don't have a go to guy. there was TO, but that obviously wasn't going to work. there simply isn't someone that mcnabb can rely on in the redzone. the score could have been 28-19, but when you get into the red zone, WRs don't get open, or they drop passes, or mess it up somehow else. i don't really see what else to say.

by abeaugh on Oct 22, 2007 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

QB not Wideouts

Its the QB, not the Wideouts. McNabb apparently doesn't have confidence to throw the ball ahead of the wideout gaining seperation.

It was shown at least once yesterday where Reggie Brown was on a hitch and got open and McNabb simply held onto the ball instead of throwing for the completion because he would have had to release the ball before Brown completed his route to get open.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mcnabb will get better...

We have to remember that Mcnabb is still not fully back from his injury and he won't feel totally normal until a few months from now... I predict that we will start to see a more accurate Mcnabb simply because he will be able to avoid the rush and throw outside the pocket. He made some good plays when that happened today but he's still getting caught for sacks quite a bit.
D is playing pretty well, Westbrook is being Westbrook and the receivers aren't doing that much. They were okay today but they've been dropping a lot of balls this year and not getting open enough. So, basically what is the difference between this year and the eagles that we're used to seeing? Basically Mcnabb isn't himself, which he soon will be. We should've just traded for Randy Moss before the Patriots haha..
Having said all this, the eagles probably won't make the playoffs unless there's some kind of crazy turnaround, so there should definitely be a focus on who are the players we want to keep going into the future. Like is Considine for real? I personally think Mikell is way better than Considine so when Dawk comes back, Considine should be benched. And i think we all know that Kearse and Howard are has-beens now and the future is in Cole and hopefully Abiamiri.

Anyway, those are my two cents.

by dawkfan20 on Oct 22, 2007 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not quite there...

If the Eagles were getting their doors blown off I'd agree with you, but they aren't. The Washington and Giants losses you can't do anything about. Injuries and just a bad game. The other two losses come down to not being able to field a punt, and one bad defensive drive. If those two games go the other way, we're definitely talking about the division right now at 4-2.

This team is close, and I actually took some positives away from this game. Reid was willing to run the ball. They devised a sound gameplan, and stuck to it, and made sure they didn't beat themselves. They were very smart in the way they handled Hester.

I'd like to see what this offense looks like with L.J. healthy and playing, and what the defense looks like with Dawkins back there at free safety before I cash in my chips and start thinking about a high draft pick.

The playoffs aren't out of reach...yet.

www.depressedfan.com

by depressedfan on Oct 22, 2007 2:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They are done (for this year)

The playoffs are out of reach. I know I said it last season, but in the NFC, we'd at least have to beat out the Giants, Cowboys, or Redskins, and I don't think we can. All three of those teams are better than the Eagles this year - as much as it pains me to say it.

That being said, I think McNabb will continue to get better and the team will improve over the second half. I like the defensive line and I like the offensive line. If those two units are solid then we should be in every game. The red zone issues the team has been having are annoying to say the least, but those things are curable if they make some minor changes (play calling, packages, dedication to the run game, etc).

The fact of the matter is that the NFL is the most balanced league in pro sports. Literally every year a team can have a chance to win the Super Bowl. This may not be our year, but if we concentrate on improving, there's no reason why 2008 can't be.

So put me on the bandwagon to play the young guys and let's see what veterans want to be part of a winning 2008 team. I want to see more Abiamiri, more Hunt, more Winston Justice, more Jean-Gilles, more Avant, more Celek, more Gaither and more Gocong.

by slackerjoe on Oct 22, 2007 3:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

This year is done, and comparisons to last year's Garcia-led turnaround are misplaced, for the simple reason that the rest of the division is much better than it was a year ago. Too much chasing, too many teams to chase.

I'm glad Bleed Green is saying what I've been saying since April: Reid et. al.'s arrogance in thinking that they were "good enough," and trading down to pick the QB of three years from now (perhaps sooner the way things are going here) doomed this season from the start.

I don't care if the defense played well for most of the game. Giving up a 97-yard drive with less than 2 minutes to Brian Fucking Griese is one of the most epic collapses you will ever see. And it speaks to a lack of first grade cover backs. Yeah, they have injuries, but that's why you pick, for depth, no?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll punish myself and continue watching, because that's what an Iggles fan does, but this season is done, cooked, stick a fork in it.

by sdf on Oct 22, 2007 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the sig quote!

"Giving up a 97-yard drive with less than 2 minutes to Brian Fucking Griese is one of the most epic collapses you will ever see." - sdf

by Bo Diddle on Oct 22, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And just to add

Our Gracious Host said:

The Eagles, by not really stepping into the free agent market, trading down in the draft, and taking a long term project with their top pick signaled to us fans that they thought they were already good enough to compete. The reason this season has been so frustrating is because I bought that. I was wrong, so were the Eagles. This team isn't a disappointment, it's just plain not that good.

Somehow, even though I've been bitching about trading down and picking Kolb since April, and never bought that the team didn't need some immediate help, that hasn't helped my not being frustrated and disappointed.

by sdf on Oct 22, 2007 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And I wish

I were a hockey fan right now. I may have to hypnotize myself into becoming one.

by sdf on Oct 22, 2007 7:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My biggest fear

This season is gone. Now I just hope Reid decides to leave at the end of the season. Chad Johnson is unhappy in Cinci and we have a shot at a decent draft pick. If Reid is here, we won't go for Johnson and we'll end up with another offensive lineman. I want to get a coach in here who looks around and sees that we have to get Kolb someone to throw to (McNabb is gone). This league has become a place where you need one or two WRs to win. Look at NE, Dallas, Indy and even the Giants. They all have someone who can make a play for the ball. Honestly, when is the last time a receiver on this team made a play that was special. And it's not all their fault. McNabb used to be able to buy time with his legs, so the fact that he waited so long to pull the trigger was unimportant. Now he is back there, holding onto the ball and waiting to get sacked.
Like I said, I just hope Andy steps aside early enough that we get a coach in here that will take some chances.

by bshur1 on Oct 22, 2007 8:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the season

mcnabb is a talented headcase and won't win the superbowl, reid is always going to pass for two yards when his running game is working. If i were defending in the end zone against the Eagles knowing that reid goes for the pass 75% of time, I would defend the pass. reid can't pick a wide receiveing corp to save his life. Please let us not start about special teams.

lets just start all over again. please.

the birds are painful to watch in their predictability. The entire league is on to them.

by deborahjhall on Oct 22, 2007 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The "Building" year

I haven't been able to admit it to myself, but since I'm among friends I guess it's alright, I think we're out of the playoffs. The guys on the 5th quarter said it best when they said that "nobody is scared of the eagles." I think that we do have a "go-to" guy in Brian Westbrook but we still don't have someone who can reach up and pluck a touchdown out of the sky in double coverage. I think our WR core is just fine and I'm happy with them even if there isn't an absolutely stand out player in the bunch. But lets be realistic...

There were plenty of situations yesterday where there were guys open and Donovan either couldn't get in their hands OR he didn't see them at all.

What is killing me every sunday is that we have a team that is very talented, we've got an excellent defense, in my view, and a well balanced offense. I think Curtis has shown that he can still handle the pressure of being a lead WR and Brown and Avant have been coming around. Besides Smith Schobel and Celek are a decent pair of starting TE's. But we just don't have the same fire as we used to.

I know others may disagree but I believe that we are way out of the hunt. If we could score more TDs and perhaps bring our Redzone scoring percentage up above, I don't know, .50 then maybe we could see a turnaround. But we just aren't scoring, and 16 points with one touchdown will not beat dallas, the packers, or the giants of late. And we sure as hell couldn't compete with Indy or NE let alone the top 10 teams in the AFC. Maybe I'm bitter...but this is a team that I believe has the talent to go the distance, but they sure aren't playing like it.

by thwalls on Oct 22, 2007 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It IS McNabb...

But its not anything physical. It's mental. How many balls did he throw further than 10 yards down field? I counted 2. And it wasn't for lack of WRs being open, there were obvious times they were. And even if they aren't, throw it up there. Why not throw it 30-40 yards down field. Who cares if its an INT. It's no different then a punt. He is too worried about his own INT percentage to try. Other QBs throw it deep into double or triple coverage and hope for the best. And every now and then your WR will come down with it.

The other problem is physical. While he was never a running QB in the Vick sense, he was mobile in and around the pocket, creating time and room to throw the ball down field. That is something that is completely absent this year. And at his age, who knows if it is something he can regain. If he doesn't regain this mobility, hes gonna have to grow a pair of testicles and put the ball into covered WRs down field.

by brooksy on Oct 22, 2007 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

McNabb

I do agree that it is McNabb. I am even willing to say that some of the problems are still due to the fact that he's not 100%, but a large part are mental errors and such. I know someone had mentioned a hitch route that McNabb just didn't pull the trigger on, and I know which play that was exactly. Also, throughout the game there were multiple instances where the Bears secondary was in cover 2. Brown and Curtis were both open in the soft spot over the CBs and under the Safties, but once again McNabb never pulled the trigger. In the past, a confident McNabb would have seen the open man and thrown the ball. I get pissed at ints and all, but I'd rather him try to hit the open man and screw it up rather than eat the ball and take the sack. Which brings me to my next point. Everyone knows he's not as mobile as he used to be; age, injuries, whatever... why the hell is he holding the ball sooooo long. Okay, fine, know one's open, here's an idea, throw the god damn ball away instead of getting your ass planted in the ground. Our defense has been playing well, especially the past two games. Once they get healthy they will be fine. Minus the punt return disasters to start the season, our special teams has been decent. They haven't done anything outstanding, but they really haven't hurt us either and I can deal with that. We have one of the best and most versatile backs in Westbrook and a decent send with Buckhalter (who is actually staying health, praise Jesus), decent tight ends, and a good o-line (just don't let Justice one on one with anyone good). Let's look at the wideouts. Yes, we have no "go to guy" and I'm sorry but I would NOT want Chad Johnson... why not just bring TO back as well??? We want to spend out high draft pick (that we will have, because we are going to win about 5 games...) on a wide out? You want one with size, strength and speed? Want one that is probably off of a lot of people's radar... Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you James Hardy of the University of Indiana... yes you heard me, Indiana. 6'7", 220, and runs a damn good 40. He can play physical and shake the press coverage. I don't know anyone besides Champ Bailey who's going to cover someone like that well.. too big for CBs and Safties, way too fast for linebackers. Want to have some fun screwing with coverages? Flank him out wide, have 36 motion to the slot on his side. Then we would just need someone to throw the ball to them. Don't get me wrong, he would be a rookie, so for the love of God, go get me a good veteran wideout as well, and move Curtis to the slot.... where he SHOULD be playing. And, unless McNabb starts making better decisions, I think it's time to get Kolb in there and call it quits with McNabb. Some team would probably take him on as a project, so let's get something back for him. I just don't think he will ever be the same, mentally or physically. The only time this season he even remotely looked like the old 5 was against Detroit, but let's face it, their D is basically a College division 2 defense. And even then, it wasn't that we totally dominated them. On many of the big plays, their coverage slipped, or there was a miscommunication in the defense. If they actually did their jobs and stayed on their feet, there's no way McNabb looks that good that game. Bah! Go Flyers. And, when do pitchers and catchers report????

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

BTW

If Chicago wants McNabb so bad... Let's swap him for Berrian... shit I'll even take the Sex Cannon Rex off their hands in the deal... atleast that shithead throws the ball downfield.

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow!

there is such a thing as a stupid post and a ridiculous post... THIS ONE IS BOTH!

Mcnabb could sit on his ass and be a better quarterback than Grossman!

700 Level

by 700 Level on Oct 22, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe i should have been more specific

I didn't say start Sexy Rexy... I would still start Kolb. The Sex Cannon could ride our pine for less money that McNabb though.

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw Hardy Saturday

He is the real deal. He'll be one of the first picks (is he a senior this year?) so the Eagles have to go 4-12 or worse to get him. Same size as Harold Carmichael (sp), but more athletic. Excellent wideout in the open field, and he'd be great in the red zone. Apparently he's an ex-hoops player.

"When you run downfield and hit a guy who is not expecting it, there is a certain amount of satisfaction." - John Runyan

by Bo Diddle on Oct 22, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hardy

Correct, Hardy is an x-Hoosier hoops player. He has only been playing wideout for 2 seasons, so he is going on raw talent and some middle of the road college coaching. But yes he IS the real deal. He is a Jr., but I would be surprised if he didn't declare after this year. Unfortunately, I can see this team only coming away with 4 wins this season, I mean we're almsot half way through the season and we only have 2, so why not finish with four??? I think that even if we end up with the 10-12th pick we could get him there. There is one, perhaps two WRs that would go before him, partly due to their exposure, and his lack there of. I say we bench Edward Scisorhands, get Kolb cooking, trade #5 for a good wideout, get our 4 or 5 wins and draft Hardy.

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

even if we do only win four games

i wouldn't be able to sleep the night before the draft because of the chance that they would draft some guy no one has heard of that plays a position we don't urgently need...

by eagleyosh on Oct 22, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh

are you seriously saying we don't urgently need WRs? They suck. Yes we urgently need them. You haven't heard of him because how many Indiana football games are nationally televised? Not his fault he went there to play basketball on scholarship and figured out he was a damn good football player. And you don't think it would be worth the chance of loosing some sleep if you could have someone 6'7" that can run by alot of corners? I'm good with that chance.

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you misunderstood me

i mean that i think the eagles desparately need a WR and think this would be a great pick. I was saying I just don't know if I have confidence in the front office actually picking a WR with great potential instead of some guy i've never heard of to fill a role a few years down the line. i agree with you, believe me. i just pray so does jeff lurie.

by eagleyosh on Oct 22, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ohhh

let me say that i'm sorry for misunderstanding your post. trust me i'm the first person to admit when i'm wrong and the way i read your post was incorrect.... and i do agree with your opinion about the front office.

by foos05 on Oct 22, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's the fire

I agree with a lot that is being said. But I look at it this way. McNabb is coming back, slowly but he is, the receivers are alright, not great but alright. The offensive and defensive lines are great...and the defensive as a whole is pretty good. I'm wondering where the fire is. The offense goes 3 and out and they just walk or jog off the field with there heads down. They have the attitude "Well we'll get them next time." NO!!!! Not this year you won't get them next time. The team as a whole isn't that good. Who is the guy on the sidelines trying to fire everyone up? I don't see that. In the past it's been Trotter and Dawkins. I think the whole team just needs a spark. I get sick of seeing the 3 and outs, you'd think the players would be sick of them as well.

SOMEBODY PLEASE GET THIS TEAM FIRED UP ON SUNDAYS!!!!

by slandog on Oct 22, 2007 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Look at the Sidelines

The most fired up guys you see during the game are Dawkins, McCoy, and Kolb. None of them are playing right now.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a Thin Line

between winning and losing this game. If the receivers catch any of the multiple drops, especially Brown in the endzone trying to catch a ball with his chest (played football before Reggie?). If McNabb hits any of the overthrows (when did that start happening, he use to be all wormballs when he missed). If Umpire Arms doesn't invent new penalties and call phantom holdings. If Andy doesn't go away from the run as soon as it gets going, or has even a 55/45 balance (36/23 yesterday, or 39% runs).

This team and this coaching staff think they are better than they are, they think they are out there doing calculus when they've got to get their adding and subtracting skills back.

The problem is, there is no sign that the coaches or players are willing to go back to basics. The shame is they could have won 10 games in this terrible NFC if they just kept it simple, so stupid.

by Behan on Oct 22, 2007 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's the offense

Take away the DET game and this team averages about two touchdowns a game. That's not enough points. And with Reid's unbalanced offense and a limited McNabb, I don't see how it's going to improve.

by Blackacre on Oct 22, 2007 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I heard a stat

That outside of the Detroit game the offense has scored 3 TDs all year.

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by JasonB on Oct 22, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

3 TD's

Yep. Avant, Curtis, Schobel.

And no TD's on special teams or defense.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chamomiles Davis

I'm with Jason here. At some point you have to relieve yourself of the anxiety that this team will exceed its own level of mediocrity. After the touchdown pass to Muhammad I felt strangely calm. Not angry -- disappointed, of course -- but at peace with the reality of the situation. This team will not make the playoffs in 2007.

What is this team capable of, then? Seven wins, possibly eight. Will this result in an overhaul, either at quarterback, head coach, or both? We'll see. I think Lurie would like nothing more than to give Reid the benefit of the doubt after last season's resurgence, but two losing seasons in three year may force him to weigh his options.

"I'd like to thank my hands for being so great."

by Chamomiles Davis on Oct 22, 2007 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not good enough

Who isn't good enough?

Kearse, Howard, and Spikes for the money they are being given and their total lack of leadership and big-playmaking.

The Tight Ends with LJ Smith injured and unsigned for next year.

The Fullback, who is as useful as teats on a bull. Thankfully, his contract expires after this year.

McNabb injured, hesitant, and inaccurate (and unknown if he will ever return to the form needed for this offense).

The Special Teams return units and kick coverage unit (meaning the bottom of the roster is too slow).

What to do for this year? Put Gocong in at Defensive End and see how he plays there and let Bradley play SAM. Gocongs's been just okay at SAM against the run, but very good for whatever his role is there covering the Tight End against the pass. Let Abiamiri play end instead of riding the pine. How much worse could they do at End than two guys who don't make the stat sheet?

I'd also like to see McCoy get some reps at WILL again (more on that later). Spikes is doing good against the run, but seems unable to make negative plays for the opposing offense (forced fumbles, tackles for losses, sacks). McCoy in 13 games starting last year (Texans to Colts + Falcons) had 11 tackles for a loss (1 of every 5 tackles he made), 3 forced fumbles, 2 sacks, a tip that turned into a Trotter interception). Why can't McCoy come in on passing downs? Can he make fewer big plays than Spikes Zero?

Put in Avant and Baskett in the redzone and let them use their height to make plays. Its worth trying.

Where has Greg Lewis gone in his 3rd down role? If he'd actually play, he might be useful as tradebait for next year.

Where have Montae Reagor and Kimo von Oelhoeffen been hidden away?

Prominent guys I don't want to see back next year unless they really turn it around - Kearse, Howard, James. Less prominent guys - Mahe, Tapeh, Reed, Lewis, Togafau, von Oelhoeffen, Graham. Other possibilities for replacement - Reagor, Spikes, Schobel, Young, Justice,

Overall needs analysis - 1 top flight wideout, 1 playmaking linebacker if Bradley can't do it, 1 pass rushing defensive tackle, 1 defensive end, 1-2 safeties, 1 cornerback, 1 fullback, possibly 1 tight end.

Can a 3 way McNabb-Chad Johnson-Draft Picks/somebody else deal be worked out?

Most prominent analysis needs - find out if Gocong and Abiamiri can play defensive end, or if we need a new free agent or high draft pick. Find out if Bradley can play SAM or MIKE or if we need a new highly drafted/free agent linebacker. We already know we need at least one and maybe more highly drafted/free agent safeties. Give Kolb a chance to play some, but also see if McNabb can recover over the next couple of months.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe i'm reading this wrong, but..

are you suggesting that the eagles trade mcnabb for chad johnson? I'd love to have johnson, because I don't feel like he has the same pain in the ass potential as TO and is an awesome reciever, and seems like a good guy. BUT, I don't think the Bengals want mcnabb seeing as they have pro bowl caliber QB in Carson Palmer already...
also, our defense may not be forcing turnovers, which would be nice, but they're doing a hell of a job. if the offense could score some points, we'd easily have a winning record. the defense is ranked 7th in the league in pts allowed per game.

by eagleyosh on Oct 22, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

McNabb-Johnson

No, a 3-way trade. McNabb for a pick or player from another team, and the pick or player for Johnson.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotta agree with BG on this one

Our guys just aren't very good. One of the major distinguishing features of what makes a good team good is its ability to finish. To go approx. 1-for-15 in red zone opportunities means they can't finish, and that means they're not very good.

Maybe this is a good year to bring along young players. The Pats are 2+ touchdowns better than anybody else anyway, so it's not like we'd have a chance at a ring.

"When you run downfield and hit a guy who is not expecting it, there is a certain amount of satisfaction." - John Runyan

by Bo Diddle on Oct 22, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This team is mediocre...

Like someone said above, it's a thin line between winning and losing. Honestly, though, we should have seen this coming. Look at last season. The Birds won a bunch of games, but they were all close (All three Giants games, one Cowboys game, the Tampa game, the Saints games, the Jacksonville game, the Carolina game, the second Redskins game...). Besides that, they blew out a couple teams and were blown out by a couple of teams. Things bounced their way, but that's a sign of a pretty above average squad.

The irony, of course, is that the younger side of the ball is the one holding up their end of the bargain. For that, I have no answers.

The Iggles just aren't that good right now. They're not Rams or Dolphins terrible, and really, most teams after long runs like the Eagles have gone on end up Rams or Dolphins terrible at some point, but they're not good enough for the playoffs.

I think this is clearly a rebuilding year. Get Hunt up to speed on the passing game, let's see what we have in our tight ends (I was disappointed when we didn't draft the Bears' Olsen last spring... what with LJ being in a contract year) and think about adding a premier wide receiver (I'd love to see Curtis in the slot). The defense is young and playing well. This season may be over, but you can certainly see the potential on that side of the ball.

by Boss Hot Sauce on Oct 22, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Birds

The season is over. I agree, I am hoping Reid gets fired. The Birds should begin the offseason by resigning L.J. Smith. They should then go after a true #1 receiver and be willing to shell out some dough to get one. R. Brown is at best a true #2 receiver and Curtis would be ridiculous working out of the slot. I'm not giving up on McNabb. It took Carson Palmer awhile to get back to his old self. Signing a premier receiver would provide McNabb with weapons again and allow him to gain confidence in throwing the ball again. Let's be honest...we all know that McNabb has the fragile mentality ever. As for the defense, I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. Perhaps we can add some depth in free agency and through the draft. Either way, it's time for the Iggles to make some moves, whether that be spending cash, firing Reid or moving up in the draft.

by swanatfnm on Oct 22, 2007 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wake up people

Reid is not going to resign and even if the birds finish 2-14 Lurie is not going to fire him. It would take more than that at this point... for what ever reason Lurie is married to Reid.

I think McNabb still deserves another shot next year, but along with everyobody else he needs a real wideout again... and not Chad Johnson. I personally dont think the front office would take a chance on anyone who even remotely reminded them of that other unmentionable asshole.

I know that noone wants to hear this, but we're really not all that far from being 4-2 right now. If McNabb's play was better (which i believe it will be with time), that alone might have been enough to nail down wins in two (or more) of those losses.

700 Level

by 700 Level on Oct 22, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Defense

Do you ever notice our defense, even when it is good, never gets shutouts and never scores safeties?

The Eagles last shutout on defense was Week 14 1996.

We've been shut out since then Weeks 1+9+12 1998, Week 3 1999, Week 1 2003, Week 13 2005.

The Eagles last safeties were scored in 1999 and 2003. Teams average a safety every other year.

Do you realize the Eagles, Panthers, and 49ers are the only teams without a return TD this year on special teams or defense? Typically, Special Teams average almost 1 TD per team, interception returns 1.5 per team, fumble returns 1 per team. After a third of a season, how does a defense and special teams not have a single return TD?

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Reid was aked about that today

While the Eagles defense has been pretty solid this year, they really haven't been a playmaking defense. They aren't forcing turnovers, they aren't getting what I'd call big sacks, and they really aren't making big plays.

They've done the small things fairly good, but that's not always enough.

Of course his response is that they're "close"...

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by JasonB on Oct 22, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that good...

what I've been saying all along.

by fuquamanuel on Oct 22, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

not that anyone cares...

but i'm REALLY tired of Dave Spadaro

700 Level

by 700 Level on Oct 22, 2007 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

who isnt?

He's a puppet.

by dawkfan20 on Oct 22, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny Fact...

In about an hour of football, Tom Brady has as many touchdowns as McNabb has had all season.

by fuquamanuel on Oct 22, 2007 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Funny corrallary.

Tom Brady is currently the QB of the team that will be considered the best in the history of the world. 19-0, lowest margin of victory this season will be 14 points.

by brooksy on Oct 22, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

last play yesterday

why did we throw it at the ground on the last play of the game when our only chance was the hail mary? i know we probably wouldn't have gotten it, but it's a higher percentage play than throwing it at westbrook's feet as time expires...

by eagleyosh on Oct 22, 2007 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My guess

Is that they sent people deep and figured they'd give it off to Westbrook to see if he could make something happen.

I guess there's really no right play for that situation.

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by JasonB on Oct 22, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Right Play

Sure there is. Its called the College Band Play after the infamous Stanford game or the Hook and Latteral.

You might also know it as the Music City Miracle.

The Saints successfully ran it in 2002 (only to muff the extra point needed for the win).

The Jets ran it against the Colts last year, and but for a chicken-shit throw by Pennington who refused to run up the open field would have succeeded. Good teams practice this play at least once a week. It might be needed.

The idea is to get all the defenders to one side of the field and then lateral to a speed guy on the other side (hello Curtis, Lewis and Westbrook).

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I look to the top

I know I am joining the conversation a little late, but wanted to add my $.02. There is nothing groundbreaking in my opinion, but it seems that so many of this year's mistakes stem from decisions made by one guy.

We can all agree that the offseason assessment of needs/lack of fixing problem areas was not what it should have been, but that can happen to any team any year. What I have trouble with is Andy's game day performances. I am not a big fan of the "give it to Westbrook and see what happens" strategy. By all means, give it to B West, but make it a play designed for success. These 3 yard dump offs on 3rd and 6 just don't cut it. If you want to let our RBs make something happen, try doing handing them the ball on first down.

Also, stick with what works, even if it is not in your game plan. The run looked pretty good this week and we just abandoned it in the 2nd half. This is a recurring theme, where failure to adjust properly at the half sinks the ship. I know Andy is a humble guy, but it seems like he thinks he has everyone outsmarted with his planning and scheming abilities. Does he not realize that the rest of the league has figured us out?

I appreciate everything Andy Reid has done for the franchise, but think he needs to separate his management duties from his game day decisions. At the end of the season, I think Andy should stay in the front office, and leave the coaching to someone else.

by KRIMME on Oct 22, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All of this said...

I am still amazed that this team got so bad so quick.

"You say 'groin' and it hurts." -- Mike Quick

by BrianS on Oct 22, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Team

The team is not "bad". If you want to see a bad team, see the Dolphins or Raiders or Rams - look for teams getting blown out by 10+ points every week. As to the Eagles, the passing offense is bad at scoring touchdowns in the redzone.

In other words, one part of one phase of the team is really bad.

The Eagles have a good run offense, they have a good run and pass defense, they have okay special teams. They even have a good midfield passing offense.

Unfortunately, games are won by points, not yards.

If you really think back, the passing offense has had these struggles since 2005 when Owens was banished. They were able to cover them up in part by big play TD's last year.

Redzone TD's with the Eagles have traditionally come from rushing, McNabb on a scramble, the Tight Ends, and from passes to running backs out of the backfield, and not from the wideouts. McNabb is not himself, and Smith is out. This leaves Westbrook to be keyed upon in the redzone.

Look at last year. Baskett scored his TD's on plays of 87 and 89 yards. Greg Lewis scored his two TD's on plays of 30 and 45 yards. Stallworth scored on plays of 42, 20, 84, 30, 3, 28, and 75 yards. Brown scored on pass plays of 5, 23, 40, 60, 7, 3, 40, 19 yards, and a 15 yard run. Avant scored on a 5 yard pass. 20 passing TD's by wideouts, only 5 inside the 20.

Smith scored on plays of 1, 4, 5, 1, 10, and a 2 pt. conversion while Schobel scored on a plays of 25 and 15 yards.

Westbrook scored on passes of 31, 4, 52, 8 yards and runs of 12, 71, 8, 5, 6, 1, 28, 49, 1, and 62 yards. Buckhalter scored on runs of 2 and 1 yards. Tapeh scored on a 12 yard pass. McNabb scored on runs of 6, 15, and 1 yards.

So the tally of redzone scoring from 2006 was:
Wideouts - 5 pass, 1 run
Tight Ends - 6 pass, 1 2-point conversion
Tailbacks - 3 pass, 8 runs
Quarterback - 3 runs
Total - 15 pass, 12 runs

Wideouts were less than 25% of redzone scoring, but the Eagles scored 27 redzone TD's in 19 games - 1 every 1.5 games.

Non redzone scoring:
Wideouts - 15 pass
Tight Ends - 1 pass
Tailbacks - 2 pass, 3 runs

LJ Smith was just under half the passing redzone scoring plays, and McNabb was a quarter of the running scoring plays. With them out, 40% of your redzone offenseive production is gone. Both these threats are non-existant right now, so the defense has an easy time of keying in on the 4 guys who've shown an ability to score in the redzone - Westbrook, Brown, Buckhalter, and Avant. Since all these guys are generally not on the field at the same time, it becomes even easier. Generally, you only need to key on on two guys.

As to non-redzone scoring, the Eagles managed 21 such plays in 18 games, or barely over 1 per game. Touchdown scoring was rounded out by 5 defensive touchdowns and Buckhalter's caught out of the air 55 yard miracle.

So far this year in 6 games, the Eagles scoring pace for non-redzone TD's is fairly similar to last year. So far we've got Curtis for 68, 43, and 75, Westbrook for 43 yards and on a 25 yard run. That's just 2 TD's off last year's pace - not quite as good, but within expectations..

In the redzone, we've had Avant for 9, Curtis for 12, Schobel for 13, for Westbrook on a 5 yard run, Buckhalter on a 1 yard run and Hunt on 1 yard run. That's 3 TD's off last year's pace - 50% less.

And there have been no return TD's, leaving us 2 TD's off last year's pace.

The Eagles certainly could have used another 7 TD's in 6 games. They would have probably beaten the Packers, Redskins, and Bears with that additional scoring, maybe even the Giants. We can probably even identify the opportunities missed. Westbrook's 19 yard TD vs. the Jets called back by penalty. Brown's dropped TD in the endzone against the Bears. Gaither allowing Elisha Manning to catch him in the open field. Will James dropping at least one if not two certain return TD's, McNabb throwing Brown a TD called back by penalty for being over the line of scrimmage. Several misses to Curtis in the endzone, a couple of missed bombs with a wideout behind the defense. Of course not all of these would or could have been completed by a healthy team, but with a hurt team, all it takes is missing on a handful of plays to sink a season through close losses.

by Andrew on Oct 22, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree

Not bad, just not good enough

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by JasonB on Oct 22, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bleed Green is right

I agree with Bleed Green. I drank the Kool-Aide and thought we would be a play-off team this year. I believed the hype that all the pieces were in place for a run and we did not need draft choices or free agents since we were so good.

I know better now. We will improve this year as Donovan progresses and we will not give up but we are going to have a boring post-season and hope that the ship will be righted next year.

I am just disappointed that I was not more aware of the reality of what this season would be.

Marty

by JazzChord1 on Oct 24, 2007 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs