We don't win because we don't have a clutch QB...period.
by Gdog2009 on Feb 6, 2012 9:29 AM EST
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PrintSeeing the Giants, Saints,Packers, Steelers and Saints dominate in the super bowl makes me think more than ever the Eagles aren't going to ever win it all until we get a clutch QB who can CONSISTENTLY drive you down the field when the games on the line. We have not had that player for the last 20 years. Cunningham, nope. Mcnabb, when the game was tightest he generally didnt get it done. Vick has been in a really tight playoff situation once, and he choked by throwing a pick when he had time on the clock and could have easily dumped it down to Lesean Mccoy.
I think we all get caught up with Vick because he looks like he wants to win and has a lot of amazing physical skills but hasnt shown he could consistently produce game winning drives(and he has by far the most weapons that ANY eagles QB has ever had). Its a mental position and all the guys on the teams I mentioned above have that "clutch" bone in their body. I'm not sure any Eagles QB ever has. Not in the last 20 years at least. Its like the Sixers with Iguodola--he has amazing physical skill but when the games on the line hes just not that guy. Hopefully we find gold and draft "someone" who has "it" . Id like to see a championship at some point during my life.
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Meh
You don’t know if a guy is clutch until he’s clutch. Fact is that Roethlisberger and Rodgers didn’t look very clutch this season.
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I agree
with you on this Jason,
Eli & Brady did all season long & of course they are the ones that played for the trophy. Vick has had 1 shot in the playoffs with us to do this and it came up short. Wether it was he should have thrown it deeper or Coop needs to be more agreesive.
IMO though clutch is someone that goes for it and is not scared to do so. Vick looked like this guy the first year and this season not so much. He tried to do more things that are just not in his game and it showed. Go back to the first year Vick and we will make a better run at it. I would much rather be there then watching at home.
Gdogg, Keep the faith and our time will come, wether it be next season or 5 yrs from now. It will happen and there will be no greater feeling to us real fans when it does.
Hey,
let’s not condemn Cunningham, Peete, MacNabb, Vick for failing when it counts the most. It wasn’t their fault.
Until you walk a mile in their shoes, don’t throw stones, dude.
See what I’m sayin’?
That wasn’t the point at all.
Like I said, a guy isn’t clutch until he’s clutch.
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It's amazing that people try to draw future conclusions
based solely on the fact that something hasn’t happened yet.
Also, the more NFL I watch, the more I realize so much of it is serendipity. I won’t go into a laundry list of examples, but Brady makes the right read, the right throw, Welker runs the right route … they do everything they’ve been coached to do, and they just failed to hook up on a play that would have sealed the game. And everything else came undone.
Far too often we as sports fans and journalists try to draw concrete conclusions from things that basically happen for no explainable reason.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
Exactly and as we’ve seen so many times, things change. Tom Brady won a couple Superbowls and we all got the idea that he was clutch. Now he’s lost a couple… Do we change our minds? Is he no longer clutch?
Who knows? It’s fluid.
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agree
I could not agree more with this post…Vick has never been clutch like you said he had a great opportunity aganist GB and choked…This teams offense is loaded w talent that Mcnabb never had and still made more out of it than Vick will ever. Im sick and tired of seeing my QB on espn top 10 plays on how he escaped 5 sacks in a loseing effort, and not being able to lead the team down the field in 2min.
He choked??
So, by throwing a jump ball to a 6’4" receiver, matched up 1-1 with a 5’11" (and I’m being gracious) cornerback, he choked??
Riley Cooper makes the play he’s SUPPOSED to make, and you’d be on here kissing Vick’s ass. Hell, if Riley Cooper did the second thing he should’ve done if he can’t catch it (make sure the DB doesn’t), the drive would still be alive.
Why do people always think I'm playing the Race Card???
Is it because I'm black???
could not agree more
Cooper did NOTHING to save that play when he knew he wasn’t catching it, it looked like all he did was try to brace Tramon Williams fall. Vick single-handedly brought us back with the miracle against the Giants with his feet and his arm. He almost won us the game against GB in the first game of the season (which everyone is obviously overlooking the play-calling as well) and then this season, our defense blew the ATL game in which Vick came back and started dominating the ATL defense until he got hurt. Vick was hosing the SF 49ers, defense let them get back into it, and then started driving down the field to comeback until Maclin fumbled. Cardinals game, Steve Smith is a stupid motherfucker and fell like a little bitch instead of getting the first down. All my point being is there are so many other moving parts besides Vick that dictate outcomes and for the most part Vick has done his job and done it well at trying to keep us in the game, granted his decision making was questionable at times throwing the ball and getting it picked off etc, etc, but it is not at all ALL of VIck’s fault. and P.S. might i remind you that fucking JAMES STARKS ran all over our defense in that playoff, we could not stop them on 3rd down to save our lives, so look at it from both sides. When Vick has created opportunities to win games, the defense has always made it harder and harder for him.
Being ‘clutch’ is a 2-way street, in that the receivers actually have to catch the ball.
by captain nodar on Feb 6, 2012 10:39 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
yep, just ask Maclin and Avant
Maclin blew 3 game winning drives this year. Avant blew a potential game-tying drive vs. BUF and threw away a game-winning hail mary vs. WAS last season.
Vick choked when he threw that stupidly unnecessary jump ball to the endzone vs. GB, but a sample of one does not a QB make… I think having the greatest comeback in NFL history on his resume is enough balance it out. There were a few other 4th quarter comebacks in 2010 as well.
YES! i agree 100% i think maclin is great, but he's horrible under pressure.
Brian Dawkins for President
Santonio is Clutch last minute
Would you rather have him? Last minute production is so overvalued. Think of it like Moneyball, points are points, whether they’re in the first 55 minutes or the last 5. Maclin is clutch because he produces at a high level and puts points on the board.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
now are
you saying that because Cruz had 1 great year? Maclin has been a constant for us since he arrived. After Cruz does it for a couple of years lets discuss then but right now you would take a 1 year leap over a proven guy? I will stick with Maclin until cruz can prove to do this over and over
I’m saying that because when I see a ball thrown to Cruz, I expect him to catch it. When Maclin’s involved, I’m not sure. That juggling TD catch? Maclin would have dropped it.
As far as proven guys go…Cruz is proven enough for me. He played big when it mattered. Maclin has fumbles and drops when it mattered for us.
Funny enough, Cruz drops a lot more passes than Maclin if I recall.
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Cruz
Almost single-handedly won games for the Giants.
Jeremy Maclin almost single-handedly lost at least two games for the Eagles.
So this year? Cruz is way better than Maclin.
Hopefully this doesn’t remain the case next year.
by UnclaimedFright on Feb 7, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
One great year....
…in the slot, at that. Nicks takes all the pressure off of him. Manningham gets the rest of the attention. (at least, early on)
Why do people always think I'm playing the Race Card???
Is it because I'm black???
To be Fair
We aren’t even in a position to “Lose” some of those games if Maclin didn’t play at a high level. That’s a ridiculous notion. To say Maclin doesn’t catch that bobbled TD catch, you’re probably right, maybe he just doesn’t bobble it at all and makes a clean catch.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 7, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Right,
And we don’t know how Maclin will even play without DeSean making the safeties cheat back.
by UnclaimedFright on Feb 7, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Reply Fail 2X Above me.
C’mon Son(s)!!!
Why do people always think I'm playing the Race Card???
Is it because I'm black???
Take a time machine back a couple years
And replace Cruz in all of these comments with Steve Smith.
One great year does not make a great WR.
Get well soon Coach!
2011 National Champs in Men's Basketball
FIRE DeLEONE
Eat a bagel (like a mumu)
#TeamKuechly
1967: Embrace it
by derbyguy on Feb 7, 2012 9:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree
Yeah OK, Eli was clutch this year. But his receivers were also clutch. They made all of the tough catches in traffic. I have questions about Vick but I also have questions about our receivers making the tough catches with the game on the line.
Go Eagles!
Exactly. Also, how many 6 yard hook routes did Eli throw this year that his WR turned into an 80+ yard TD? Eli is not as bad as the 25 pick season he had 2 years ago, however I am certainly willing to bet that 2011 was his career year and he will not come close to 5,000 yards again. 9-7 record aside, to quote an earlier fanpost by Joe_D, the stars just fucking aligned for the Giants this year.
by captain nodar on Feb 6, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Surprise!!!! Giants RBs rushed 27 times like most SB winners
Balance football is key to winning the SB historically even in the last few yrs in the “passing league” Andy Reid’s last playoff game(a loss) RBs rushed 11 times. that is not balanced football.
Be careful...
…Reid’s apologists (and there are dozens on this board) are going to say you have a “sentimental obsession with the run.”
The bad news? Castillo's back.
The good news? With the 7-9 season coming up and all the Eagles games being played at 1:00 (and in the bag for the opponent by 2:30 at the latest), we'll all have plenty of time to rake the leaves and whack off. Stock up on your Astro Glide, ladies!
Seriously dude, when someone comes on here and says the Giants win was connected to their "balance" when all evidence says otherwise, it's clear he has a sentimental obsession with the run.
-The run vs pass attempt numbers were NOT balanced.
-Most of the important plays by the Giants were passes… 18 passing first downs compared to 7 rushing first downs.
-Average of 6.6 yards per pass play compared to 4.1 per rush.
-DEFENSE was a pretty big part of this game too… holding a lethal NE offense to 17 points.
-Drops, penalties and fumbles bouncing a certain way were key factors in this game too… the game clearly could have gone either way.
-Many of NYG’s failed drives were hurt by ill-advised rush attempts on 2nd and long that set up a 3rd and long, leading to a punt.
So yes EB, when some idiot on here comes out of nowhere and acts like the run game was the key, or a key to the Giants victory, it’s clear he’s a old fashioned guy who misses the glory days of the run and will pick any number out of the stat book in order to make it look like the run was more important than it was. If he responds to his post, he’ll probably say something like “It’s not about yards, it’s about attempts.” Or “NE gave up the final drive because they were so worn out from getting pounded by Jacobs all game.” whatever…
by MikeCampy on Feb 6, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if that were true, then there would be NO freaking game-winning drives in the final minutes of any game, like the kind we’ve seen throughout this season and especially in the playoffs. In those situations, only passes are attempted and the defense knows it’s coming, yet they still can’t seem to stop it…
also, teams would presumably NEVER complete a 3rd and long, because the defense isn’t fearing a run… yet somehow they get completed very often… hmm.. In fact I recall Jay Cutler completing like 5 third and longs against us.
you are looking at specific parts of a game. Ultimately, forcing the other team to check for runs first opens up the passing game. Also keeps the other offense off the field. Look at the time of possession, 37mins to pats’ 23mins
It only “keeps the other offense off the field” if you’re getting first downs, which can be either by pass or run. Passing is in general a more effective way of getting first downs, except in very short yardage plays. Teams almost always pass on any 3rd down of more than 2 yards… what does that say about their faith in the run?
Acting like a run is superior to a pass just because the clock always moves is silly. The other team will get a chance to match whatever you do each possession, regardless of how much time you take off the clock… the key is scoring points. 3 runs and a punt does not help the team at all… the only time it makes sense to run for the sole purpose of killing clock is near the end of a half when you can keep the other O from getting another possession.
The biggest factor in the time TOP differential was the Giants DEFENSE… I’d say limiting the Pats to ONE PLAY on their first drive had a pretty big influence on the final TOP.
Yeah, they ran it 27 times. And called 43 passing plays. That’s extremely balanced football, throwing the ball 61.4% of the time.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"
In fairness
They were facing a historically-bad pass defense.
Your point stands though
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
The Giants were on of the worst rushing teams in all of football this year.
And they didn’t call a balanced game-plan yesterday either. Reid had no problem running the ball this year. My problem is when he/Marty chose to run the ball at times, not how much. But running the ball was not why the Giants won the game and it wasn’t why they were in the game either.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
by NOLACuse on Feb 6, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Vick is a good QB
I don’t get the rebelling against him around here.
It’s only a small portion of fans who think that, as far as I can tell.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Team Kuechly, J. Jenkins, Iloka
He had a rough year
Meanwhile, up the road, Eli had the year of his life.
Last few Super Bowl-winning QBs: Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, Eli. As much as winning a Super Bowl puts you in the pantheon of greats, it’s seeming more and more true you need a great one to get you there.
We were all Vick believers for most of 2010. If he can get back to being that guy, or a close approximation of him, you’ll notice how much more we as a group appreciate him.
Right now Eagles fans are just angsty and miserable — more than usual. Don’t read too much into it. We’ll get our hope back sometime between free agency and the draft.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
Yeah, only one team wins the Super Bowl each year
Last few Super Bowl-winning QBs: Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, Eli. As much as winning a Super Bowl puts you in the pantheon of greats, it’s seeming more and more true you need a great one to get you there.
These guys have all lost playoff games. Brady too. Only one team can win. Eli is a perfect example of hot and cold. He has not won a playoff game outside of the two SB years, and this year he won his first playoff game at home. I wouldn’t mind having any one of these quarterbacks on my team with the game on the line, but there are no guarantees. The other team wants to win, too.
Vick had a down year (I think that our receiving corps did, too), but I think that he can bounce back. Let’s see what he does with a full off season.
Go Eagles!
People need to start putting the blame
On Marty, not Vick.
It’s Marty’s idiot idea that Vick needs to be a pocket passer.
This idiotic obsession that you’re going to turn him into a guy who gets the ball away quickly, so keep him in the pocket so he can rack up roughing penalties is so fucking stupid.
Yes, Vick gets hit when he rolls out – but that’s the only way he’s truly an elite QB. He gets hit just as much in the pocket, because he holds the ball for too long?
But why try to find a round hole for the round peg? We have a square hole and a hammer!
by UnclaimedFright on Feb 7, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
You're one of "those" fans with Iguodala.
Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
Mentioning him in that way just brings this whole thing down.
Also, what JasonB said.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Ingwadala
he bad
fuck u motha fuckas, nigga rule
Sixers surging
At least Iguodala and Co. lead their division. That’s more than can be said for Vick. He’s washed up.
[They] who would be great anywhere must first be great in [their] own Philadelphia.
Kitty O'Neill Collins
I'm not bashing Iguodala at all.
I think he is one of the best players in the NBA and the Sixers look great right now. I was taking exception to OP’s assertion that Iguodala isn’t much more than a physical specimen.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Yeah Eli Manning it
Close your eyes, throw it into double coverage adn hope your WR makes a ridiculous play so you’re called clutch….
or throw 25 interceptions in a season
by VBG on Feb 6, 2012 12:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
If you fail to see
the difference in his game from last year to this year, that is your loss.
Corners didn't run into each other last year?
Yeah, Eli got better.
But why can’t Vick get better? Especially since this will be his first full offseason.
And the Eagles WR were crap last year compared to the Giants.
by VBG on Feb 6, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
You had/have
Jackson (extreme speed)
Maclin (same thing as Nicks pretty much)
Avant (slot guy, as sure handed or more so than Steve Smith when he was healthy)
That sounds like a mighty fine trio to me, very comparable to what the Giants have.
Nicks (again, Maclin is comparable)
Cruz (works really well out of the slot)
Manningham (inconsistent, but a fairly speedy WR)
Yes!
Eli throws the ball nine or ten feet in the air, and relies on his WRs (The Giants are the tallest average team in the NFL) like Nicks to leap over the 5’10 DB to pull the catch in.
by UnclaimedFright on Feb 7, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Meh
The Eagles are historically a screen-heavy team so I’’m not sure the short pass argument is a defensible one for us. Plus, Eli’s down-field throws in the Superbowl were very good for the most part. I hate it, but he’s a good QB. Vick’s great too, but Eli finally made a Manning out of himself this year, and it’s definitely a little disconcerting.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Team Kuechly, J. Jenkins, Iloka
This is ridiculous. A quarterback can’t be clutch without clutch receivers. Ask Brady… Ask rodgers…. Vick can only throw the balls. Our receivers failed him as much as he failed.
I gotta stop having kids...
by EaglesandRavensFan on Feb 6, 2012 12:24 PM EST reply actions
I bestow upon you 75 o’s.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Too Much is Attributed to the QB
If Desean isn’t tackled by his shoelaces in the Divisonal round against the Packers (which has nothing to do with Vick.) Vick would be considered massively clutch for that game. The reality is so much more goes into the outcome of a football game than coaching, talent, clutchness. Like anything there is a serious amount of luck to it and unpredictability. I would gladly take the Eagles talent over the Giants every day of the week right now. That doesn’t mean we will get a Superbowl from it, but we will have a better chance at it. For example say last night the Giants winning it all was a 2% probability at the start of the season and the Eagles were a 20% or something. I’ll take that 20% every time, even if it fails and the unlikely 2% happens. That probably sounds like crazy babble, but Football is way easier to handle if you can be a little more objective about it. The Eagles have an uphill battle next year, their schedule blows, but I’d still take their situation over any other situation in the division.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 2:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
agreed… nobody seems to remember that shoelace tackle… they only remember the last play. Maybe it’s because in the broadcast you can’t see how open the field was beyond Desean (but in the replay you can)…
Seriously, chance is the biggest factor in the outcome of these close games.
Yup, straight serendipity.
Not to say it’s entirely luck, as the talented and prepared teams put themselves into position to succeed, and certainly earn it when they do … But it’s absurd the grand conclusions we draw about legacies and the like when the opposite could have easily happened.
I find it amazing how often we here at BGN say an NFL person can’t accomplish something (generally, win a Super Bowl) based mostly on the fact that they haven’t yet. Plenty of teams that lose deep in the playoffs by less than a touchdown were good enough to win one; fact is, only one does. The Ravens … they were Super Bowl-worthy, but they’ll be mostly a footnote in history tied to Billy Cundiff’s miss. And so on …
The Patriots are now 3-2 in five Superbowls decided by 3, 3, 3, 3, and 4 points. They could be 5-0 or 0-5 in them.
If Kyle Williams doesn’t fumble, if Romo hits Miles Austin, if Welker makes that catch … are we here beating ourselves up about how much better the Giants draft than us, or how much better Eli is than Vick, or whatever the topic du jour is?
Keep it in perspective. There’s so much serendipity involved.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
by D3Keith on Feb 7, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes,
And virtually none of it comes the Eagles way.
How many fumbles did we see bounce right into Giants breadbaskets this postseason?
Did you ever – for one second – think that the ball bounces the same way if the Eagles are on that field?
Of course not.
by UnclaimedFright on Feb 7, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
Too bad this statement is buried in a crappy fanpost because it is something that a lot of people don’t get.
Out of all the sports, luck plays a huge factor in football as a result of such a small number of games, especially in a one and done format like the playoffs.
Get well soon Coach!
2011 National Champs in Men's Basketball
FIRE DeLEONE
Eat a bagel (like a mumu)
#TeamKuechly
1967: Embrace it
by derbyguy on Feb 7, 2012 9:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Well I appreciate the complement
either way.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
Agreed.
Giants schedule is still worse though. Their schedule is actually insane.
But if Welker makes his routine catch that he always makes, the Pats win the game and Eli suddenly is less clutch?
That doesn’t make sense to me.
So I agree with everything in your post.
by VBG on Feb 6, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Blaming Welker Is Just Wrong
Ball hits him in the hands, yes, but take into account. He gets a free release, he is looking back at Brady the whole way. Watch the Replay. So what does Brady do, he throws it behind Welker and high forcing Wes to perform a jumping pirouette/barrel-roll sort of deal to try and catch the ball. If I’m a Pats fan, I’m blaming Brady for missing a wide open guy, could Wes have caught the very difficult pass? Well yeah, he’s real good, he can make that catch, but it never should have been a difficult catch.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Blame both
It was a bad pass, but he’s got to catch it as well.
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True
It hits Welker in the hands, so he should catch it. It just never should have been that difficult. Amazing how great the Giants defense looks when Rodgers and Brady are missing wide open guys. Oh well, maybe it’s fools gold but I’m more optimistic for next year than I was for this year.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
But the point is
That missed connection is overanalyzed because of the time it took place in the game.
If that exact same play occurred at a different time in the game, it is mostly forgotten; Likewise, there are plays upon plays that have a major effect on whether or not the Patriots or Giants won last night, but we draw far too grand conclusions, and spend too much time analyzing what basically … is chance. Brady and Welker usually probably make that connection. They did what they were coached to do. Just didn’t hook up there. And it came back to bite them.
Had Welker caught that pass, the story today is that Belichick is the greatest coach ever and Brady the best QB ever.
If they’d done the exact same things, and the outcome had been different because of the catch, we’d be drawing a completely grand conclusion from something that basically could have gone either way.
But as long as we never know what the outcome is in the alternate reality, I guess we can only analyze what actually takes place.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
You're on fire
That overanalysis and need to quantify clutchosity is what drives this sport because as I said above there just aren’t enough games. As a result, narratives about “clutch” QBs and teams need to run the ball all the time get overblown.
Get well soon Coach!
2011 National Champs in Men's Basketball
FIRE DeLEONE
Eat a bagel (like a mumu)
#TeamKuechly
1967: Embrace it
by derbyguy on Feb 7, 2012 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
"if it hits both your hands... means it was a good throw" a Coach told me that before
Welker has to get the blame as well as Tom’s choice of throw but in the end Tom did his job (get the ball to the targe, period) and Welker failed at his (catching the ball, period). A QB knows the routes aren’t going to be ran always perfect as a WR knows the balls aren’t going to always be thrown perfect. Brady threw a loft-type pass Welker’s job is to adjust and catch whether or not it could have been a different throw, considering TB threw a slower pass oppose to a bullet throw that was misplaced Welker had time to make the proper adjustment for the catch. He choose to catch it in a way that had him spinning mid air (watch it again) so even if he had the ball he would have slammed on his side, harder catch to hold onto, he should of just landed on his back. He lost the ball when his body was rotating after he initially grabbed it, had he caught the ball an fell backwards (which all WR do in practice) he wouldn’t have been so sad. There is no excuse for a WR that has a pass hit him in both hands or he gets both hands on it (for you wordy type.) and in time enough so you are not being hit or going to be hit while catching.
So Tom Brady isn’t clutch by your logic?
Formerly number5
RIP JJ
"Make sure you bone her in the missionary position (you on top) and right when you put it in her tell her in a microphony voice that "The Eagle has landed," and before you blow your load start waving your hands like you’re flying and screech like an eagle." - DickMuffin
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!
Rodgers not clutch ?
Cmon Jason. Pack was 15-1 and he had a number of game winning drives not to mention all the playoffs last year and winning the super bowl. Michael Vick isn’t even close to the player Aaron Rodgers is. In the clutch or otherwise.
And I’m not talking about one game here(Brady)—Im talking an entire career——
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Both Mannings, Rothlisberger—-they ALL have performed in the playoffs with the game on the line and made the plays to win the game.
Vick hasn’t—he didn’t in Atlanta and he hasn’t here. Yes hes had some drops(as all QB’s do)—-but he also has one of the best tight ends, arguably the best trio of receivers, the best RB and a pretty good O line. I would say pound for pound the Eagles offense as a whole is as good as any in the league. At the worst top 3—-so when does the QB get some of the blame ?
And as far as Iguodola—-I love him. Think hes great——a modern day Scottie Pippen. But hes not clutch. Never has been. But hes still great. Conversely—somebody like Steve Kerr couldnt play a lick of defense—-or dole out assists or do much of anything. But game on the line and u need a basket—-clutch. All day long.
He didn't what in Atlanta?
He won playoff games. Is that not clutch? What is clutch if not winning in the playoffs?
And Aaron Rodgers won zero playoff games this year. So what if he went 15-1 in the regular season? Isn’t regular season success and playoff failure the definition of not clutch?
This is the point. You can’t say a guy is clutch until hes clutch. You can’t say a guy will never be clutch because he hasn’t won a Super Bowl. Just like you can’t say a guy will always be clutch because he once was.
Eli Manning didn’t win a single playoff game over the past 4 years. Then he did.
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Jason
Aren’t Vick and Eli the only Qb’s to win a playoff game in Green Bay? Sounds pretty clutch to me.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 7, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
All the teams you listed just lost in the playoffs, except the giants who had a horrendous regular season. This is complete bs
duh
Its a career thing not a one year thing. At least read the post.
my bad, still a little emotional about the birds right now
I just don’t think qb play has ever held the eagles back in the playoffs. Defense not being able to get a key stop or turnover, a complete lack of an offensive line, those are the things that have burned us. Vick and Mcnabb both played championship caliber football for long enough streaks at a time to bring home hardware.
by phillyorbust on Feb 10, 2012 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
No
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
R2C2!
RIP JJ
I agree
Most of these folks want to bury their heads in the sand and act like we’re set at quarterback.. McNabb wasn’t clutch, and neither is Vick. When the going gets tough, they fold. Eli’s presence in the pocket makes all the difference. That and the fact that he can quickly read a defense.
And yes this is Philly, you welcome to come check us
Vick and Eli are nothing alike.
While Brady and Eli aren’t fleet of foot they are great at maneuvering the pocket and staying tuff. Vick on the other hand is more like Big Ben (who I would consider CLUTCH) they can extend a play well outside of the pocket. Quit comparing Apples to Pineapples, just because they both have the position Quarterback next to their name, doesn’t make them anything alike. Vick and Eli I believe are the only QB’s to ever win a playoff game up in Green Bay, but I guess it’s only clutch when Eli does it?
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Miracle at the Meadowlands Part 2
Obviously not very clutch either, that was just a “win this game and go to the playoffs” game which is what everyone is so excited about Eli doing.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 6, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
FYI..
Jackson “won” the game. Not Vick. Vick was tremendous for THAT ONE REGULAR SEASON GAME. Manning has won like 6 road playoff games and has countless 4th quarter drives to win the game. And the others all have rings and dominant performances in the playoffs. You cant compare Vick to any of them. The Eagles have never had that kind of QB play. Maybe Vick at 32,33 however old he is will suddenly become that, but he hasnt yet. And hes had his opportunities. And its not just because his receivers dropped passes eithers. Hes thrown a ton of picks, holds the ball too long and fumbles—a lot.
OK...
So if you use that argument, don’t bitch and moan if Vick doesn’t get roughing the passer penalties called. He holds on to the ball too long, and he runs too much, THAT’S why he doesn’t get the same treatment as Eli, Peyton, Tom, Aaron, Drew, etc.
And yes this is Philly, you welcome to come check us
Oh Yeah...
And you’re comparing Mike to a two-time Super Bowl winner. Tell me, if they’re alike, why doesn’t Vick play like it?
And yes this is Philly, you welcome to come check us
I'm Comparing Styles not Rings or Legacy
Vick and Big Ben are similar in the sense that they (unlike most QB’s in the league) can move the pocket, escape pressure and reestablish a pocket. The comparison to Ben was just that he is a clutch QB with a similar style of play to Vick, meaning someone who plays with Vick’s style can be capable of being CLUTCH. By the way, Big Ben was awful in his first Superbowl, are you giving him sole credit for that?
Vick won that game in New York because he put together drives to tie it up, Desean winning it on a return to avoid overtime was just the cherry on top. A ton of Vicks picks were the receivers fault, he fumbles a lot I’ll give you that. I only care about roughing the passer penalties on Vick when he is in the pocket, or has long let go of the ball, but I don’t bitch and moan about that, I’ve accepted the fact that Vick will not get those calls and I shouldn’t expect him to.
What I’m saying is that we have a talented QB who has proven he can get to the playoffs and he has won high pressure games and that’s all I could ever ask for. (If we make the playoffs anyone can win it all. Peyton wasn’t CLUTCH until he won one after constantly being “Not Clutch” This whole argument is absurd, I’m just saying we have a guy who can do it, now lets hope he does.)
All of the QB’s you’re talking about have lost playoff games, a lot of them embarrassing ones, even after they’ve won Superbowls where they have just been bestowed the title of “CLUTCH”. Brady Divisional Round to Baltimore ’09, Eli Divisional Round to Philadelphia ’09, Peyton Divisional Round to the Jets ’11, Green Bay divisional round to the Giants ’12, Big Ben Divisional Round to Denver ’12.
Relax, this team is talented at so many positions with so many reasons to be optimistic, now lets hope they have a little luck on their side too and who knows what could happen. I’m just not going to sit here and bitch that Vick is so horrible because Eli won another one.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 7, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why not lol? At least we know he's got the lord on his side.
And yes this is Philly, you welcome to come check us
Right. Eagles losing games has nothing to do with receivers fumbling/dropping the ball and defense constantly blowing leads that Vick help put up. Nope, Vick’s fault. Completely and utterly. No other argument needed.
Oh, and those fourth quarterback comeback and game-winning drives? Imaginary. What am I thinking of?
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"
Let's not forget Akers missed 2 field goals
Which is why they were down by 5 in the first place…..
Favorite Prospects: Martin, Burfict, Rainey, Curry
A great example
Because before that game, I think everyone would have agreed that Akers was “clutch.” Is he not clutch now?
I don;t really see how that’s a question you can answer. He wasn’t clutch in that game, that’s for sure. But does that mean he will never be again?
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by JasonB on Feb 7, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Big Ben, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers have all since winning a Super Bowl lost playoff games they shouldn’t have lost, does that make them not clutch? If that’s the logic than Eli Manning as of right now is the only clutch QB in the league, until the next QB wins a Superbowl.
by BKing in the AZ on Feb 7, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with Jason..
Your not clutch until your clutch. I guess my definition of Clutch is consistently carrying the team against all odds. I see it in the Mannings, Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger.
In the NBA I see it in Kobe, Jordan, Duncan.
Vicks had some comebacks—even with the eagles. But I just dont put him in the same league as the other guys. And neither does anyone else outside of some folks on this message board. And that’s based solely on what hes done. Nothing personal—-it just is what it is. I hope that all changes next year. Im sure we all do.
Vick took a huge step backwards this past year.
I think he was hurt MOST by no offseason, and his phenomenal year in 2010.
This year is crucial for vick and the eagles. He MUST scale back those turnovers… MUST.
With shady in our backfield, we don’t need to be a quick strike team to win the game.
We just have to make the defense respect our deep passes.
I think Vick is clutch
Anybody remember Miracle at the Meadowlands II. When he’s not injured he’s a great QB. It also helps when your receivers don’t fumble either
#DontfuckupJuan
Come on Andy
Shady McCoy is Still Dirty
Ravens 4 SB '12
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