Why did the Vince Young Experiment fail? Part One
by BIBTD on Jan 28, 2012 6:46 PM EST
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Print[Note by JasonB, 01/28/12 7:54 PM EST ] BIBTD put a ton into this one.
2011-2011 Season
|
G |
GS |
Comp |
Att |
PCT |
Yds |
Avg |
TD |
Int |
Rate |
|
6 |
3 |
66 |
114 |
57.9 |
866 |
7.6 |
4 |
9 |
60.8 |
2010-2011 Season
|
G |
GS |
Comp |
Att |
PCt |
Yds |
Avg |
TD |
INT |
Rate |
|
9 |
8 |
93 |
156 |
59.6 |
1,255 |
8.0 |
10 |
3 |
98.6 |
via NFL.com
Vince Young had a terrible year. Worst season in career but what gives? Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg have established a reputation in producing great to serviceable quarterbacks. Alongside Reid and Mornhinweg, lies quarterback coach Doug Penderson who help introduced Donovan McNabb to the West Coast Offense in 1999. There is no excuse for why the Vince Young project failed. Which bears the question: why did the Vince Young experiment failed this year?
In the first part, I will examine the mental aspects on why the Vince Young’s experiment failed. I believe the mental aspects are misrepresented a lot especially with fan interaction. Many fans hold this belief that sports is a exclusively physical task which is further from the truth. Without mental toughness and concentration, many players would not have the success they have now.
Too much pressure placed on Vince Young? In August, ESPN took his "Dream Team" statement out of context. This statement alone painted the Eagles as an arrogant team. While having pro-bowl skilled players in nearly every position, the Eagles were favorites to win the Super Bowl. The 2011 Eagles’ season was Super Bowl or bust. A grave task indeed.
With Super Bowl contention insight, no one expected Young to start a game this year. Even if Vince played this year, he looked great against the New York Jets during the preseason. No problem if Michael Vick got injured, right? At the time, no one realized that preseason game was smokes and mirrors. The New York Jets were a bad football team.
Fast forward and Michael Vick breaks his ribs playing the Arizona Cardinals. An injured Vick forces Young to start the next game against the New York Giants. During this point of the season, the Eagles’ playoffs hopes were on oxygen support. A lost against the New York Giants would eliminate the Eagles from playoff contention. This is a great burden place on someone especially when you are a backup quarterback. Maybe Michael Vick played through his injury to take the pressure off Vince Young? Nevertheless, an unconfident Vince Young would start against the New York Giants.
In his first game against the Giants, the Eagles won 17 -10. It was a terrible start but a win was only thing needed. In the next two games under Young's control, the Eagles scored only thirty- four points. In both games, the Eagles lost with at least a two touchdown deficit. At least four of his nine interceptions led to points for the opposition. Despite Vince's valiant effort, he was detrimental to his team. After the loss against the Seahawks, many people witness Vince Young have yet another emotional breakdown.
Many fans knew Vince Young had agonized from an earlier emotional trauma. In 2008, several networks reported that Vince Young was considering suicide. Later, Vince Young denied the allegations were true. Unfortunately, suicide has a nasty stigma surrounding it. Anyone person who mentions suicide runs the risk of losing their job, family and friends. Many Americans still believe that a suicidal person is either mentally weak or crazy. In Young’s case, the suicide claims gave his critics more evidence in proving his ineptitude as a quarterback. With his erroneous low Wonderlic score, his critics like Merril Hodge considered him mentally weak instead of mentally ill.
Mental illness is misunderstood with the general population. Many players take pride in playing through injuries and head trauma. Playing through an injury is the quickest way to receive your man card. Growing up, crying about your injuries would be considered effeminate. When Michael Vick received a concussion against the Falcons, he was respected for his desperation in playing through his concussion. In contrast, Jay Culter was viewed spineless for not playing through his injuries during last years’ NFC Championship. With mental illness, players are stigmatized as being weak.
With this negative stigma, many players do not report if they suffered from head trauma. Who can blame them especially when mental illness is considered a joke in the U.S? It is known that there is a physical connection with mental disorders. With every hit against the head, increases the risk of damaging memory, judgment and coordination. The late Andre Waters received fifteen concussions which led to his depression and finally his death. Sadly, the NFL refuses to acknowledge the problem despite finding mental impairment in over 2500 former players. It is unclear if Young suffers from brain trauma but the news coverage surrounding Vince Young’s suicidal thoughts was unnecessary. Nevertheless, critics used Young’s breakdown to justify why he is incompetent quarterback. The stigma that surrounds mental illness has prevented some players from being treated.
Here are several comments about Vince Young's emotion breakdown from the Internet.
What's wrong with you Vince? Black people don't commit suicide.
Vince is not accurate throwing the football so why would you think he could hit himself with a bullet?? The boy could buy some rope and I am sure lots of folks would show him how to make a noose.
If he believes suicide is the answer, fine. Get on with it. Mental illness is such a burden on our society, it's best that in death, those shall find peace. Those with mental illness, tend to hurt innocent people along the way. Let God handle it. Go ahead Vince, "Make my day."
White and proud of it. Just do not care for colored folks. I enjoy watching them perform on the football firld or basketball court but beyond that I have little use for colored folks.
I feel for you Mr. Young, but please, cut the crap and snap on your helmet while you've still got a chance.
Unaware of a possible mental condition, Young plays without confidence. Young hesitates a lot before throwing the ball which either led to many underthrown/overthrown passes or an interceptions. For the West Coast Offense to work, the quarterback needs to run plays automatically. The simplest miscue (example below) will easily lead to drop passes, or interceptions. Despite having a good offensive line, Vince Young looked uncomfortable in the pocket. Critics doubted a Michael Vick’s comeback so Vince Young could easily do the same.
Seahawks vs Eagles - Vince Young vs David Hawthorne Pick 6 (via QuickFixSports)
Good example but not the example I was looking for. I was looking for a pass play to Avant in end zone where Vince Young flinched before throwing but this will do. If you look at the above video, Vince Young doesn't even considered any other option but just throws to McCoy. It looks as he expects Lesean to make something happen despite nothing there. If you look closely, Riley Cooper is wide open.
It does not matter how talented a man is especially if his head is in the wrong place. With a lot of pressure to succeed, Young has failed to meet expectations. In Young's case, he is unemotional unstable which is often confused with stupidity and ignorance. With the simplest misfortune, Young instantaneously becomes unstable. Maybe this terrible year will allow Young to seek the help he needs? In regards, Eagle fans wish you the best.
References:
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/vince-young
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001802/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/football/18waters.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin
http://www.suicide.org/stigma-and-suicide.html
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-myths.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3584636
http://www.nfl.com/player/vinceyoung/2506875/profile
http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/vince-young-impressing-everyone-not-named/
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Comments
Nice post. But gotta grammar nazi you
either lose the ‘Did’ or change the Failed to Fail.
"I’m the real macaroni you cheesy b@#$%, I’m demonic with the Kraft" - Eminem
"Don't bother getting married - just find a woman you hate and buy her a house." - some anonymous great man
Fixed.
I was too busy trying to get the paragraphs to flow. I had to break this post into two posts. Right now, it’s about 2000 words together.
I think everyone should be bilateral coordinated.
Well thought out post either way
"I’m the real macaroni you cheesy b@#$%, I’m demonic with the Kraft" - Eminem
"Don't bother getting married - just find a woman you hate and buy her a house." - some anonymous great man
Yeah great post
Same thing as dj, just clean up the grammar a bit. Awesome post though
by nyeaglesfan624 on Jan 29, 2012 5:54 AM EST up reply actions
Good Post
Looking forward to reading the next part.
Vince Young experiment didn't fail..
It never really had a chance, what failed was their thinking of bringing in a big name Qb for one year and hoping that he could thrive as the backup without any off-season.
I'm all-in for the 2012 season !
Dwight Howard is coming to Philly. Maybe. Probably not. But we can at least hope, that's all we have.
by Eagladelphia on Jan 28, 2012 8:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agree.
Reason why I said it failed because the chance of him coming back is close to nil. The FO wanted a 2 year deal with him but he wanted a one year deal. His market value has been shot. Either he can be the vagabond quarterback like Kerry Collins or retire. He will be 29 when the next season comes around. A team would be smarter to chance a rookie then a quarterback without any upside unless a team is in dire need to get quarterback. Kind of like Indiana signed Collins when Peyton Manning went down.
I think everyone should be bilateral coordinated.
His first year can be compared to Vick’s first year when he came back from prison, he really needed 2 years to get it together, VY could have benefitted from 2 years, and not sure where he goes from here but the Eagles can’t be serious at bringing him back, not with all the dream team stuff on top of his sub-par play last year.
I'm all-in for the 2012 season !
Dwight Howard is coming to Philly. Maybe. Probably not. But we can at least hope, that's all we have.
by Eagladelphia on Jan 28, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think
VY will get a chance to complete for a starting job this season the Giants game show what he can do. And he was not bad in the Pats game. Teams know VY not did get the chance to have a full off-season to learn the system.
by Alway Learning on Jan 29, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
thank you Eagladelphia
All these VY haters I think VY did great in Giants game . And was good in the Pats. He was not good in Seahawk game.He played in 3 DAMN GAMES!!!!! and you haters blame him for your season what a joke and give Vick a pass. When VY beat the Giants without a #1 WR and Desean its about me not playing cause he did not get the contract.
by Alway Learning on Jan 29, 2012 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
Translation, please?
Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.
-from The Sayings of Muad'Dib by the Princess Irulan
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 29, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I have to say, I disagree with this:
With Super Bowl contention insight, no one expected Young to start a game this year.
I would say that anyone who knows NFL football would likely have agreed that the over/under of games that VY would likely start as the direct backup of the oft-injured Mike Vick would be about 2.
You’re making some pretty big assertions about his mental state based solely on allegations from three years prior.
Also, it’s Doug Pederson.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
by KByars on Jan 28, 2012 8:42 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
What first-hand evidence do you have of Young's mental state?
Have you interviewed him? People close to him? Are you trained as a counselor, therapist or psychologist? Young might have mental and/or emotional problems but you’ve shown no particular evidence of that. “Internet bigots give Vince a sad, Sad Vince throws bad passes” does not constitute serious analysis.
by Tracer Bullet on Jan 28, 2012 8:59 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Have to agree with Tracer here.
BIBJOB accuses Vince Young of being mentally ill, He has absolutely no proof other than press rumors and hearsay. Certainly BIBTD defames the man’s character, and has written what may be a libelous article.
Young guy did a bad job as a QB this years and seems not to be able to handle the speed of the game very well. Everything else BIBJOB wrote is just plain conjecture based off of your personal assuptions – assumptions that I question.
Now he might be just making stuff up, but I’d definitely not consider a career as a journalist if I were he. If I were Jason, I’d pull this off the site.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
by IggleGreen on Jan 28, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Dude, why do you have to make personal attacks on people? BIBJOB, really? I saw your whole “I have a higher IQ than 96% of people” BS on the other thread — not something worth bragging about. Even I’m in the same percentile, and you know how stupid you think I am. And the stuff in the other threads about R36 being biased, did you ignore where he said he warned me too? You may not like my criticisms of people’s posts, but I at least I criticize their writings, not the people themselves.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Oh here we go with the Minions ganging up again. I very much disliked BIBTD’s post and pointed out how it was poorly written and irresponsible. I fail to see where any personal attack occured, that is until your reply just now when you attacked me.
No AnthroEagle, I have every right to disagree with a post and point out a slander when it is posted.
You were the one who attacked and got personal with the above post, and since you say you were already warned, you should be thrown off the site now for continuing to do so.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
You’re smart enough to know that my comment was not an attack on you. Go through and look at your most recent comments. Most of them are snarky remarks and complaints about how everyone here is stupid and how you’re better than everyone else. If you really have such a problem then you can leave, or better yet, keep it to yourself and focus on the posts themselves.
And your juvenile name-calling would be considered an attack, yes. But I will concede that I shouldn’t have commented, because I should have known that this is the sort of response I would get. My apologies, and you will not hear anything else from me on the subject.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
What a classic ‘non-apology’. Your first paragraph is a personal attack and it nullifies the alleged apology that follows. The first sentence of your second paragraph calls me juvienile. You are still attacking. Anyone reading it can see right through the apology that finally comes in the last line. I find this to be intellectually dishonest as well as abusive.
Please do not respond to any more of my posts.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
........
Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.
-from The Sayings of Muad'Dib by the Princess Irulan
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 28, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
fuckin' awesome.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 28, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
OK,
The hell with it. It’s Hammer time. Lock and load you Clovis supporting Minion.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
lol I meant the picture. It's hilarious.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 29, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
So Sixers fan here.... just asking a question.
so I heard you guy are 8.5 mil over the cap. Who do you see leaving next year?
by BIBTD on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 PM PST reply actions
the rest of the fans
follow me on twitter: @danieldresden
by dandresden
.
“It seems to me that there is a strong movement here for some BGN readers who want to rehab every ex-con and problem child in the League in order to get some experience on the team.”
“The Bills let T.O. go today, which just makes me happy.”
“look i have seen all this crap on this blog about how klob is this awesomme qb who is gonna hlep our O a ton this season and its just frikin stupid cause he sux and cant play football at all. And if ne of u knew about football u would kno that”
I do not think that ProfileENT is an emotional adult. I suspect that he is not a physical adult either and would guess that he is less than 15 years of age – most likely twelve or thirteen, and he displays only average intelligence for that age group. My guess is that he tests in the 40th percentile – a good bit lower than average.
ProfileENT is friendless and often abused and feels that the anonymity of the Internet can allow him the opportunity to create a persona that will be respected and feared. When his subteffuge is exposed his brittle psychological defenses are shattered he becomes belligerent, insulting his detractors as best he can – until his defenses fail and he starts to rant nonsense insults and goes into a pre-catatonic state of confusion that can often be seen with boderline personality disorders. His physical threats would be laughable if he did not threaten to murder people. That is of course criminal behavior and instead it shows a propensity towards mental illness.
FINALLY, T.O. has become the Gary Coleman of the NFL. I am so happy this jackass can’t find work.
Finally, Andy should reverse Max J-G’s laproscopic surgery and take it on himself.
Kolb looked like a Chia pet after they planted his head in the ground during game one
CDA = Coaching Dysfunction Anxiety; A disease documented and displayed by fans of teams like the Oakland Raiders, Detroit Lions and Washington Redskins
Victor Abiamiri – The Turd that Won’t Flush
.
He can injure himself just straining to fart.
That Eagles - Cowboys game was delicious. Just win baby win.
by chillyphilly on Jan 28, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Tracer
you misread the piece. he never stated that Vince was indeed mentally ill, he instead offered one of a dozen possible explanations. He took to task the media for portraying mental illness as a fact.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
" Lifes a bitch, but God forbid the bitch divorce me" Nas
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
by Talon Talent on Jan 28, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Completely agreed. This was beyond conjecture beyond someone who has no training or firsthand experience with the subject. Can’t believe this got this many recs.
by MG77 on Jan 31, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.sbnation.com/users/chillyphilly/activity?community_id=68
http://www.sbnation.com/users/I%20like%20Sex/activity?community_id=68
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Great piece man
While I have never been a big fan of Vince Young, I always understood him as a winner, so I was willing to see what we had. After the great Giants win (any win against those fuckers is a great win) to see him get smoked by NE was expected, but the ass kicking from Seattle was atrocious and a huge disappointment.
That being said if Vince isn’t mentally capable of playing then either Vince himself or the people he has trusted with his career need to see that. Think about it like this, if fans booing = mental instability = poor play = fans booing, something needs to break that cycle. since poor play = fans booing will always be the stable equation the part that can be addressed is removing the mental instability. I voted Andy made the mistake this time as he should have seen it, or at the very least the psych evals should have.
Looking forward to the second part.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
" Lifes a bitch, but God forbid the bitch divorce me" Nas
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
It failed....
Because he got caught up in all the hype just like we did. He thought he would magically produce outrageous numbers because the entire sports world thought our birds just had to show up to win. Now we all know better.
"I brought two kegs,one of beer,one of gunpowder" -WARCLOUD
by Dunta Is A PUNK on Jan 28, 2012 9:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Bleeding Green Nation should know better than to (re)publish this article
I must second Tracer’s comment.
Something about mental illness, something about a Vince Young experiment that failed, something about head injuries…. I must admit I’m feeling a bit brain damaged by this article. Of course the author does none of the important work needed to support the claim “The Vince Young experiment is a failure.” That work would include citing the actual occurrence of the head injury, demonstrating the failure through a significant number of examples (not just one play and one allegation about suicide), and finally showing that the Eagles have decided to move on thus demonstrating the experiment is over, has reached a conclusion, and thus needs closed pronouncements such as “failure.”
The author uses as his evidence unsourced "comments from the internet. As if the Internet is a place made of one person living in a small town in Pennsylvania who we visit daily. As if. (Reminds me of the spoof, “The Innernette.”) The author goes on to use one in-game example and amazingly describes it as being the example s/he didn’t want to use.
Here’s the only argument that can be made until we have more evidence: Young struggled this season and he has not been renewed. That’s it. There’s nothing else there.
I haven’t even mentioned the grammar yet. Oh there I just did.
And I haven’t even mentioned how unethical it is to write or publish an article making allegations that a public figure is mentally ill. Oh there I just did.
by 1993Heel on Jan 28, 2012 9:22 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Agreed on all points. I really don’t care to see a Part 2.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
didn't cite his sources, perhaps you missed this entire section
References:
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag//name/vince-young
blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001802/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/football/18waters.html?r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin
blank">http://www.suicide.org/stigma-and-suicide.html
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-myths.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3584636
http://www.nfl.com/player/vinceyoung/2506875/profile
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/vince-young-says-the-eagles-are-going-to-be-a-dream-team?urn=nfl,wp4302
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Merril-Hoge-puts-the-boots-to-Vince-Young-while-?urn=nfl-109576
http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/vince-young-impressing-everyone-not-named/
also claiming he had mental issues suffered from head trauma was never factually asserted. As a matter of fact, he wrote
It is unclear if Young suffers from brain trauma
he wrote about how media outlets reported the possibility of head trauma and refrenced the media’s portrayal that Vince talked of suicide. All things that happened.
Also do you know what slander is? apparenty not.
slan·der
[slan-der] Show IPA
noun
1.
defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2.
a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3.
Law . defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
he never once ascertained that factually Vince Young is mentally ill. He suggested that he could be and instead took to task the media who did portray it as a fact.
Maybe try reading the whole fucking piece instead of spouting off nonsense that in no shape or form is true and critiquing an excellent piece designed at providing one of a dozen possible explanations for Vince’s struggles this year.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
" Lifes a bitch, but God forbid the bitch divorce me" Nas
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
by Talon Talent on Jan 28, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
cites
I find your defense of your friend to be inspiring. However a bunch of links at the end of the article isn’t the same as naming your sources inline for actual statements and individual claims. For example, the only way of locating each source for each of the “comments from the Internet” is to do the work the author should have done for the reader: actually name each source next to each quote. The author merely pasted into his article several successive quotes and apparently expected each reader to dig through a list of links after the entire article to identify each source. You didn’t notice it?
You have a fine fine grasp of how to use a dictionary. Only thing is, I didn’t use the word “slander.” Thank you for the cut and pasted definition though. I find resorting to a dictionary in one’s argument charming and quaint. The irony is that you forgot to cite the dictionary you used. They’re not all the same, you know, nor is the interpretation of the term “slander” the same in every examination of the term.
As far as the author making a suggestion regarding Vince Young’s depression or head injury status an author can suggest anything. Such writing is normally called fiction or “Entertainment Tonight.” Suggestion via open discussion of rumor followed by passing the discussion off as a legit story is nonsense.
It will not harm the author to learn how to improve his writing. Keeping him away from developing his talent is not exactly what you should be doing, Talon Talent. After all your talent is in your name.
by 1993Heel on Jan 29, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ok where to start
First, he didn’t say VY had a head injury, he said that possible depression may be a source of his poor play.
Second, his compilation of links is sufficient to a blog post, ask wikipedia if what they do is illegal.
Third, your condescending attitude is annoying. Yes there were mistakes but there are better ways to correct another’s mistakes than from the proverbial podium. (If you were trying to be sincere, rather than condescending I apologize. The tone of ones voice is hard to analyze through print sometimes.)
by nyeaglesfan624 on Jan 29, 2012 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
This guy.
That Eagles - Cowboys game was delicious. Just win baby win.
by chillyphilly on Jan 28, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think if there was a full off-season VY would of done better, if he comes back I think he will be better next year if he plays. As for the dream team comment that was taken out of context, I think he meant for him personally not that we were a dream team
The Legend
Yeah. the dream team comment was so abusively taken out of context that the poor guy started the season as media goat. I still don’t see him improving enough to keep on the team however, I just don’t see any potential in him like I did with Vick.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
Great Post..
Confidence indeed played a large part. Vince also tried to play too cautious, wanting to make the perfect play opposed to the right play. He also had some inexcusable brain farts.
In hindsight he should have been given extra attention by our PR people, his short-comings were not all his fault (this was not a unified team) and the expectations were too much to bear.
A VERY large reason why all of our other back-up QB’s succeeded, was that the teams they were at the helm of were together and cohesive. It’s redundant, but though supremely talented some important pieces played w/ their own agenda.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Jan 28, 2012 10:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Great work and great analyzes
I don’t know whose problem it was, but I don’t want a repeat.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
For those who understand football and even played the game....
I believe they understand the mental side of football. Many great college players have not succeeded in the NFL because they lacked the mental capability to understand the game. If Vince Young has a problem with depression then he should seek help. But I also believe that those who want to improve their game are willing listeners and students of the game. Vick was…and is…willing to listen. He wanted to improve his game and prove to others that he had the capability of becoming a damn good QB. Compared to how he played in Atlanta, most people can see the improvement and the desire to continue to improve. Vince Young may not have been a good listener or student. Many QBs who have played for the Eagles under Andy were willing to listen and learn. And when it came their time to play, they played well….and that’s because they learned the Eagles system well. Kolb, Garcia, Feely, Detmer, etc…..they all played well when called upon. Young? Well……I hope he gets over his depression.
by Virgoman3 on Jan 28, 2012 11:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent fanpost..well done....
I must say though he beat our butts..but there is something with Vince Young that goes beyond like you said the physicality of the game..I thought the Eagles signing him was a bit of a risk..Afterall, Jeff Fisher had to go looking for him when he stormed off the field and subsequently disappeared…If you aren’t playing well, fans are going to boo..in any sport…So he needs help with whatever issues he has in his head..Again, nice post here..I think the QB position is a major part of the reason for Philly not reaching their goal this year..Vick is a very athletic, confident player but you can’t make him a ‘pocket’ QB..He is a threat when turned loose..but a very small guy so he needs to learn when to slide…On the otherhand, Vince Young is not a viable solution either..So QB will be something the Eagles will need to address in order to succeed..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Actually, the shuffle at the o Line earlier in the season can be attributed to us not making our goal because the instability at oline earlier was a leading factor in Vick’s injuries..
True..I thought Eli was going to get killed last week against the 49ers...
All due to O-line problems..that we have had all year and even go back to last year..Any success for a team starts and ends with a strong O-line..That is part of the reason I mentioned that Vick can’t be forced into a pocket role…He’s not a big guy..If a defense gets a clean hit on him, he’s going to get hurt..Vick has spent alot of time injured which is not what you want obviously…
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
agreed about o-line
the party line about the o-line all season was how great kelce was and how few sacks the o-line allowed. the truth is that kelce was terrible and in reality bled a ton of pressure straight up the middle. mathis was great and peters was awesome. yes. i agree with that much of the koolaid story. but kelce allowing so much pressure straight up the middle…vick was ejected from the pocket too quickly too often. and a hit from a DT has a much higher likelihood of causing injury than one from anyone else. i thought mudd was excellent but he was wrong about kelce. we had an all-pro center sitting on the bench.
Yeah..Vick was constantly flushed too quickly from the pocket..but there are two things..
First, he has been trying to stay in the pocket..which isn’t there and..
Second, he needs to get what he can and get down..He’s a tough competitor..but he needs to give up before he gets whacked..Like I said he’s not a big guy, and your right if a tackle hits him, he’s out..and there isn’t a guy that can step in…
Unless of course your playing us..because we make any back-ups Superstars..hahaha..Our team didn’t come together until week 15..I really thought we were all done..Funny how this game goes..all of a sudden you get it together and get going and get on a roll..and one win builds confidence..and on and on..things for the Giants changed dramatically from week 15 on..They have no fear now..but I must say that I’ve never seen this before in my 50 years watching the game..They were toast and all of a sudden they pulled off something remarkable..The last was that 4th and 17 against the Vikings when Simms hit Bobby Jones and they never lost another game..but week 15???..unreal..just when you think you have seen it all, something else happens in this great sport..That’s why I love football..anything can happen in this sport..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
A backup quarterback was bad
Stop the fucking presses
by Walcott on Jan 29, 2012 12:20 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He has won some games
but its not like he was ever that good. Why does his failure have to be about mental illness or head trauma? He just isn’t that good. I find this article a little weird. Did Casey Matthews suck because he couldn’t mentally cope playing in the same league as his brother? No, he is just not talented enough for this league.
Cowboys suck.
I don't think he is mentally ill..He is just very sensitive..
It’s not a question of a mental illness..He needs mental toughness..I don’t know how you teach that..Shit he has every other tool in his bag..How do you teach a guy to ignore the boos and stay focussed??..Hell if you play bad in Philly or New York your gonna get booed…We aren’t new fans of an expansion team…We are fans that have followed our teams for decades…So, I don’t know what Youngs problem is, but it will end his career if he doesn’t overcome it..IMO
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Short off season! Needed more time to prep
by pragit on Jan 29, 2012 6:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Let get real here
VY did not want to play backup for Vick for 2 years. Andy wanted a 2 year deal VY and his agent said no.
Oh
And let’s get real here. You live Vince Young more than anything else on the planet, and now you can’t say all that horse shit about the Eagles’ win/loss record with Vick compared to Young, because, ya know, if they win even one more of those games that Vince started they’re in the playoffs. Point blank he failed to do what he was brought here for, which is win games when Vick is injured in order to get the Eagles into the playoffs. He’s a failure who’s lost 70% of his athleticism and is now exposed as being a noodle-arm, low IQ QB with the ability to break off a 5 yard run. How many of those guys succeed in the NFL?
Prediction: the 3-4 will be out of style in two years.
So no, I will not shut up about stupidity.
by bdawk4ever on Dec 11, 2011 1:39 PM EST
this is why it failed
Prediction: the 3-4 will be out of style in two years.
So no, I will not shut up about stupidity.
by bdawk4ever on Dec 11, 2011 1:39 PM EST
fail
Prediction: the 3-4 will be out of style in two years.
So no, I will not shut up about stupidity.
by bdawk4ever on Dec 11, 2011 1:39 PM EST
I’ve always wondered….where are all the women in this club? I see a gang of shirtless dudes and not one lady.
"I’m the real macaroni you cheesy b@#$%, I’m demonic with the Kraft" - Eminem
"Don't bother getting married - just find a woman you hate and buy her a house." - some anonymous great man
see the back of the head with the glasses, just to the right is a woman
and that’s about it. lol
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
" Lifes a bitch, but God forbid the bitch divorce me" Nas
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
by Talon Talent on Jan 29, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
VY and the sausage fest
“That’s pimpin, Pimpin’!”
"I’m the real macaroni you cheesy b@#$%, I’m demonic with the Kraft" - Eminem
"Don't bother getting married - just find a woman you hate and buy her a house." - some anonymous great man
Not a good sign for VY's career. Any type of "head case" suspicions at QB are a killer.
Indecisive, feels the rush too much, offense too complex for him, diva, bad locker room guy, all problems. (not saying VY is all of those, just a list of red flags)
Suicidal? Depressed? Not many teams will take a flyer on that. Not at QB.
Ok, here goes late feedback if I can unjumble my thoughts
Leaving aside the grammar and proofreading points because you already heard about them from others. It does detract a lot from your post, makes your writing look clumsier than your thought processes actually are.
I’ll admit I’m also intrigued by the same subject. When Vince Young was signed I thought it was a great signing, because a guy was being brought in who had a good track record as a starter overall (at least in terms of win-loss records), and he was a similar enough player to Vick 2010 (dual threat QB) that if Vick did get injured, I thought Young could just get plugged in with the same game plan. Maybe I was also influenced by some of Young’s games, like where he outdueled Leinart (then with the Cards) in a tight finish, and the stretch where he replaced Kerry Collins and the Titans came close to making the playoffs despite an 0-5 start.
So the real question you’re asking in this post is “Why didn’t he execute and could the reason for it be somewhere in his head?”
The problem is that you don’t have evidence to make it clear in any way. The problem with citing Internet comments is that there’s no evidence of Vince Young ever reading them or being affected by them. What about his Twitter feed (if he’s got one), articles written about him, or interviews of his? What about any other examples of pro sports players who had sudden breakdowns (Joe Niekro anyone?), or studies specifically of this subject? I appreciate that you put a lot of thought into this post, but it comes off as a bit more of a random-thoughts thing rather than the more carefully considered stuff Jason and Jimmy (or D3Keith) put out.
One thing I do want to say: NFL coaches are pretty tolerant of players who might have off-the-field issues IF they can show it doesn’t affect the quality of their play. If it does, your stock just kerplummeted. A lot of NFL players have had problematic backgrounds.
Vince Young’s stock went down far enough at the end of the 2010 season that coaches were not considering him any longer as a starter BECAUSE of something that happened ON the field (blowing up at his coach, and the quality of his play regressing over the course of the season).
I’m not sure about the injury factor because Young didn’t have a major injury history that I can remember. That’s what makes the injury discussion and the Andre Waters parallel kind of only partially relevant.
If you want to consult with me on any of this, send me an e-mail to joselaki@hotmail.com – I tried to e-mail you a few months ago but something didn’t work.
French fries are really Belgian, sausages and bagels have the same amount of protein, two countries' names mean "turkey", and Santa Claus was invented by the Coca-Cola company. Is life weird or what?
Debe ser verde y volante - Πράσινο και να πετάει - It's gotta be green and it's gotta fly!
The problem with citing Internet comments is that there’s no evidence of Vince Young ever reading them or being affected by them
Those comments were less about Young and more about how people think suicide is sign of mental weakness.
So Sixers fan here.... just asking a question.
so I heard you guy are 8.5 mil over the cap. Who do you see leaving next year?
by BIBTD on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 PM PST reply actions
the rest of the fans
follow me on twitter: @danieldresden
by dandresden
I think one thing your overlooking is the fact that Vince was used to starting. Starters get every single rep in practice, backups get 0. I think the biggest reason for Vince’s “failure” was that he wasn’t used to being a backup, and therefore sitting on his ass every single practice.
I don’t think its a good idea take a good/decent starting QB and automatically expect him to be a good backup.
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
This is a hack job and an embarrassment to SB Nation
The premise that VY failed is flawed. He was brilliant in the second half against NY. He had a great game against NE and had DeSean done the bare minimum expected of a NFL WR, we’re all talking about VY’s monster game of 450+ yards and 3 TDs. Had Desean not dropped those 2 TDs, the blowout becomes a 1 possession game late. He sucked against SEA, no doubt. Somehow though, in the short attention span of the typical NFL fan, 1 game defines a career. Find an NFL QB who hasn’t had a 4+ INT game and you’ll have found a career backup.
Even if we accept your flawed premise (and it’s clearly filtered through the short-sighted lens of the worst of NFL fandom and journalism), your conclusion is absurd and your evidence is severely twisted.
Too much pressure on Vince? Vince Young wilts under pressure? Ask Ok. State, Kansas (4th and 18), USC, the NY Giants (21 4th quarter points), the Houston Texans, or the Arizona Cardinals (99 yard walk off) about VY and pressure. Ask the 13 teams he’s beat with a game winning drive. Look at what he did his rookie year or in 2009 (saving Fisher’s job twice). Look at his first start this season. What else can you call an 18 play, clock killing drive against the NFC champion other than clutch?
History has shown that VY thrives under pressure. He does, however, struggle when losing. The man desperately wants to win. The story goes that at Texas, after getting shut out by OU, a hearbroken VY went to Mack Brown and begged him to open up the offense and let him play. Mack Brown relented and they never lost again. VY’s darkest days in Tennessee came when the team was struggling and to many it appeared that the coaching staff wasn’t doing everything possible to win.
He was terrible against NY? Which game were you watching. His 2nd half was brilliant. If Karch Kiraly isn’t playing WR his line would have been even better.
Finally, the issue of VY, mental illness, and head trauma. Seriously? On one hand, you’re castigating the NFL and sports media for equating suicide with being mentally weak. On the other hand, you’re using it to justify your absurd premise that VY is mentally weak. "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
And what head trauma? Perhaps the OP should get a checkup.
by bevosbackside on Jan 30, 2012 5:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What I think BIBTD is really trying to say
Is that Vince Young has had a sort of mental breakdown, like all of a sudden the playbook flew out of his head and he’s lost his ability to master the fine art of quarterbacking.
That actually seems like a reasonable idea to me, although it’s hard to find evidence for or against it.
Check up on the breakdown Joe Niekro had when the Phillies signed him. It has happened to other athletes in various sports as well. Sometimes people just turn into shadows of themselves. It’s happened to me (not that I’m anything slightly resembling a professional athlete) and fortunately I managed to get past it.
"Wired into a different set of circuits from the rest of McWorld" (David Ignatius)
... and vaffanculo to all other jurisdictions!
Debe ser verde y volante - Πράσινο και να πετάει - It's gotta be green and it's gotta fly!
then why the mention
Of suicide and head trauma. This was a hatchet job, nothing more.
Your interpretation of this hack still accepts the flawed premise.
A QB in a new system beat the NFC champs with a brilliant 2nd half, put up huge numbers against the AFC champs (the game would have been close late had DeSean caught those 2 sure TDs), and sucked his third game. How is that indicative of losing the abilityto master the fine art of quarterbacking? That’s insane.
VY had WRs apparently trying out for the Olympic volleyball team, tripping in the endzone, dropping sure TDs, and committing 50 yard personal fouls. 3 games is a pretty small sample. When that stuff happens, the number can get skewed.
by bevosbackside on Feb 1, 2012 1:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
bevosbackside
These are the same folks who make excuses for Vicks 6 losts this season. And Vick had his #1 WR and VY had no #1 WR and still beat the Giants and Vick lost to the Giants with his #1 WR. I agree this article was a hatch job. And this is no surpise Jason B agree with this article there have been a lot of articles posted here blaming VY for Eagles bad season.
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