Eagles MUST Pull a Julio Jones and get RGIII
by Behan01 on Jan 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST
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PrintThe 2011 season told us something we already knew: quarterbacking is the biggest difference maker in the NFL by far. As much as we keep hoping that Mike Vick's good stretch between week 1 and 10 last season is the "real" Mike Vick, the numbers don't lie. Mike Vick is a phenomenal talent who is an above average pocket passer, but miles away from elite. What do those semantics mean? Simple: Mike Vick has never had a WPA for a season of 2 or more. He's never added two wins to his team let alone the 3-4+ wins per year that the elite teams are getting from their QBs year in and out. Point out exceptions like Alex Smith if it makes you feel better, but you'll be crying about Andy or the defense or whatever for years if you do. Simply: quarterback play has the largest effect on winning games, and the Eagles aren't getting the quality they need from the position.
There are two quarterbacks in this draft that have a chance to be hall of fame quality players. One is going first, as any sane team takes the chance to get that quality of QB prospect when they've got it. After that are two teams that likely won't take RG3, and have huge numbers of holes to fill on their teams. They need picks, the Eagles need to take a chance on getting that rarest gem in the NFL: the quarterback that keeps you in the hunt for a decade. The kid is as good a pocket passer as has come out of college in recent years, he knows the spread, he's as solid a character guy as you could want (no more Cataldi whining about "leadership").
Trade it all Andy. Get the kid, let him compete for the spot day one, and give your team a chance for a decade of prosperity. Or get a MLB, improve by a half game or so, lose in the first round, hear the same criticisms, and rent Groundhog Day. Sometimes it is that simple.
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No, we mustn’t.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 4:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The Julio Jones trade was a terrible trade and I remember me and Jimmy K
ripping on the Falcons for doing that. Trading away the farm for one player is not a good idea. In fact, the Falcons are going to really feel that trade this upcoming draft.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Well what are we gunna do with 3 straight drafts with 10+ picks. We have the ammo to move up pretty far and I don’t see any reason why we shouldnt. But I don’t think we should take rg3
"Get 'Em"
PSN Username: FlyEagles15....MW3!!!!
by FlyEagles15 on Jan 21, 2012 11:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're right
You shouldn’t trade away a draft for a receiver. Quarterback play is what it’s all about.
"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck
"Brian Dawkins is always 100% Eagles related."--macjack09 & BGN Nation
by macjack09 on Jan 21, 2012 5:10 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Lmao win!!
I had alien women suck me off when god said let there be light i turned it the fuck off I'll leave your body drenched in the blood of all your ancestors
You'll never be at peace, like the souls of child molestors I'll cut you and bless your festering wounds with alcohol This is the final call, for all the rappers that wanna brawl Immortal Technique, the wrong motherfucker to diss
'Cause I allow God to let you motherfuckers existI got a Black Panther mentality with a spic fist You don't want beef with people like me so don't pretend
I'll resurrect your aborted baby and kill it again You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men You ain't hardcore, I'll smack the shit out of your mother You wanna be gutter? I'll leave you laid out in the street Signed yours truly, the motherfucking Immortal Technique
by So. Cal Swag on Jan 22, 2012 7:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What you Smokin, man???
The Jones trade was moronic and the Falcons will pay for it for a while…
I hope I am wrong, but Kolb is a four-letter word.
Glad the Cardinals found out that I was right.
With 10,000 characters in their alphabet, what does a Chinese keyboard look like?
They don't get Jones
They get a potential HOF QB.
See the difference?
If you want to argue with the math, go for it. How do they add 2 – 3 wins with a MLB and some competition at safety.
You’re anointing the guy before he took his first professional snap. A single player is never worth a Julio Jones-esque trade during the draft.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"
by Imp on Jan 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this
He has literally had one great year. I like him, but I’m not delaying the progress of our team to trade a 1st and two 2nds when we have at least 40 million in guarantees still going to our current guy. If Barkley came out, I’m pretty sure he’d be the 2nd guy and I would be very much down to trade down for him next year, but now is not the time. We need two linebackers, potentially a WR, perhaps another DE (if we cut Tapp), safety help, etc. “College Football Fans” constantly preach dudes like this. I agree we messed up on JPP but if we’re going to draft a guy it should probably be a player who is different from Vick. I feel Behand01’s boy is going to be great but I think an NFL pass rush is much different than every team not named Texas in the Big Whatever You Call it now.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
These are great points. Thanks for giving the rational counter argument.
I agree that it is generally, if not almost always, a bad idea to trade lots of picks for a single player. Diversifying risk is almost always a good idea.
That said, this guy is going to have the highest ever Lewin career forecast ever (41 games started, 67% completion for his career, amazing). He had all the traditional scouting attributes too: makes every throw, great pocket sense, good size, and amazing leadership (both his parents are Army sergeants, how’s that for a solid background?)
He is a rare prospect at a position that dominates the game any way you analyze it: traditional numbers or advanced stats.
Vick had a Vick year. Look at his career numbers, this was not an unusual number of picks for him. Maybe he’s a little better and the D is a little stronger and the receivers don’t fumble and nothing else regresses, but is all that working out less of a long shot?
Sorry for the grammar mistakes
I was trying to reply quickly to a couple good points, hope the post is clear.
no problem
I understand Vicks tendency to turn the ball over…I’ve honestly never been convinced he is a “winner.” But I don’t think is awful enough to pick a guy second overall and trade half our draft for. That doesn’t seem like a rational or logical step forward. I love the promise RG3 brings but it makes no sense to shell out 60 mill to two players.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
Get Barkley next year
after Juan helps us lose 10 games
At least one more year of Andy and Juan. If they don't win it all they both better be gone!
No way Eagles draft a LB in the first round 2012.
We will see if Spags was in the right place at the right time in the Gmens SB run. Or was that the fluke year and he really is just mediocre.
by MightyJoeBanner on Jan 22, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds gaudy
But he will have one of the highest Lewin career forecasts ever. He started about as many games as Peyton (43 to 41) and his completion percentage is 5% higher (62% to 67%). He’s roughly equal to Luck in these categories.
He also doesn’t have some of the issues associated with failed high picks (character problems, would be on a talentless team, etc)
Don’t know what else we have to project QB prospects.
I love the top two quarterbacks but I can't help but feel that they are hyped out of circumstance
being that 6-7 teams need a franchise guy.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
I don't think they are over-hyped...
…except in this thread. HOF potential before a snap..hell, before a TRAINING camp, is ridiculous, even if it turns out to be true.
I think RGIII will be a Micheal Vick type player. And I agree that he is much more than a running QB…take away his legs and I think he is still the 2nd QB taken behind Luck. But this is not the time for a backup QB no more than the Kolb pick was the time for a backup QB. Despite the record, this team is close…and you don’t trade away all of your draft to draft a backup when you are close to a title. If you believe in someone enough to pull a Ditka-Williams, he’d better be a starter at a position of need DAY 1.
Why do people always think I'm playing the Race Card???
Is it because I'm black???
simple
By adding to a defense that surrendered 5 fourth quarter leads. With better pieces for that defense we add those 2 or 3 wins. I would venture to say our offensive woes came from a certain WR’s inability to suck it up more then anywhere else. We should rectify that in the offseason one way or the other.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
"Sometimes you have to kill the one you are with so you can be with someone better" William Shakespeare
"Nothing shows true love like delivering 16 stab wounds to the jugular" Henry Kissinger
by Talon Talent on Jan 22, 2012 1:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
lol
RGIII will never be the player mike vick is…there’s only one mike vick and RGIII got hot after the heismen trophy was handed too him.
Once the oline got better, the receivers started catching the ball, and Vick felt less pressure to do it all the offense was ok. A new qb is not going to win us a championship. Guys in the middle of the defense that actually scare opposing offenses is what we need. We need a lb’s and safeties who will put someone’s Dick in the dirt. We also need a receiver who Vick can put it up to and know he’s catching it or no one is. Vick is better than 2, sometimes 3 of the qb’s left in the playoffs. Our defense is worse than every one ( as far as how they are playing now, for those of you who hate the pats d).
"you cannot think this 6-foot man is going to survive a full season if defenses have 904 chances to knock his block off"
by EaglesandRavensFan on Jan 21, 2012 7:53 PM EST reply actions
I understand your reasoning, and it’s not terrible reasoning, but I think that it’s too much of a risk.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
+1
RG III looks like a can’t miss prospect. So did Rick Mirer. And Ryan Leaf. And Kordell Stewart. My point is that we don’t have the luxury to roll the dice on the rookie QB when the team needs to fill other slots with good football players. And there are MANY good players in this draft. A Falcon-esque type trade (assrape, if you ask me) is completely out of the question.
Crush them, my Birds!!! CRUSH THEM!!!!!!!!!
by EagleDomiNation on Jan 22, 2012 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t know why Kordell Stewart is in there. He was a late 2nd round pick, and I would say compared to Mirer and Leaf, he had an outstanding career.
Just talkin about practice
by The Mad Hopper on Jan 22, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
You draft for the future, not the present. Your not a championship caliber team if you have to rely on rookies to be good. We still have an entire offseason that will give players a chance to step up and Free agency to get proven players. Vick only has a couple of years left. It would be more of a gamble to expect a rookie LB and S to help us win right now, as opposed to drafting a high character quarterback that could be the face of our team for a decade. As people have already stated, we have had 10+ picks for as many years as i can remember. Between the draft and free agency, we dont have room for that many people on our team.
You may draft for the future, but how long into that future will Reid be here. He doesn’t have that luxury.
"you cannot think this 6-foot man is going to survive a full season if defenses have 904 chances to knock his block off"
by EaglesandRavensFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
this
Crush them, my Birds!!! CRUSH THEM!!!!!!!!!
by EagleDomiNation on Jan 22, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather have a pocket passing qb. We’ve had great scrambling guys like Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, and VY and none of them has given us a superbowl. If history teaches us anything, you need a smart pocket passer that does not turn the ball over to win championships.
"Fuckin right G."
I hope you realize RG3 is like really smart?
he’s pretty much graduated already and he’s not staying for his senor year. If you mean smart football wise, it’s too early to say anyone coming out of college is, because alot of it determines what situation you’re put and how you’re taught. And I think it’s reasonable to predict that RG3 will be as smart as any QB coming out of college. “Pocket Passer that does not turn the ball over”- you mean like a guy with a 70+ completion % and 37:6 touchdown-INT ratio? RG3 has 4000 passing yards this year. VInce young had 6000 in his entire collegic career. So I’d say RG3 is very unlike VY. The only similarity is their speed. Rg3 actually has a good arm, accuracy and is a good overall quarterback. I don’t agree with the poster that we need to give up so much and go after RG3, but please don’t say RG3 isn’t smart or a pocket passer, or lump him in with the likes of Vince Young.
RG3 is a pocket passer...
He just happens to have the ability to scramble/run.
I'm great like Gatsby.
by Clint Eastwood on Jan 21, 2012 9:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I love RGIII
If you want to find someone who will defend him all day, blindly, then I’m your guy. But now is not the time for us to get a QB. We have holes on our defense and much of our team is entering the downhill of their career. I really think that in a year or two this franchise will undertake a complete reboot complete with a new GM, coach, and QB, but now is not the time. We should take a good look at next year’s QB class though as another horrible season will likely mean the outing of Andy and Vick.
Shady McCoy: Franchise records or GTFO
Go Dawgs!
#TeamKuechly
Follow @KeeepSwinging
Agreed
There isn’t anyone, besides Luck, that I covet more in this draft but this team has to many needs.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on Jan 21, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no reason to draft a rookie QB onto a team with a heartless defense, and possibly no #1 WR. Let’s just improve the team and asses QB next year when it might make a lot more sense.
Shady McCoy: Franchise records or GTFO
Go Dawgs!
#TeamKuechly
Follow @KeeepSwinging
by KeepSwinging on Jan 22, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
o
I was wondering if people still do that.
The rational counterpoints have been made. I wouldn’t be mad if the Eagles went QB since they shouldn’t be picking this high with this much ammo again anytime soon. But I would be mad if they gave up everything for a guy to sit behind Vick. And then our linebackers were bad again.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
Agree
I think that we are going to have to find our next franchise QB sooner rather than later. How long will Vick last, more than a couple of years? But yeah, sacrificing your whole draft for one player historically hasn’t been a good idea. I don’t see it happening this year, given the fact that there is pressure on Reid to win now. Drafting your future QB doesn’t jibe with that.
Go Eagles!
They won't do it
But they desperately need a QB for the future. I have a strong feeling that next year is going to be it for the Reid regime as they win 9-10 games, got bounced in the 1st/2nd round, and both Reid/Vick are gone.
We’re gonna draft lots of linebackers and safeties and special teamers…
Wait, what am I saying. It’s gonna be a high-motor ’tweener or an offensive linesman.
by Eagle Fly Free on Jan 22, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
We'll turn the OLine men into LBs...
I'm great like Gatsby.
by Clint Eastwood on Jan 22, 2012 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lulz
Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!
Still want to play it safe?
Minor changes, hope the last four weeks are the real defense, hope everything improves and nothing regresses, roll the dice again.
When you see the Giants have another chance, you still don’t want fundamental change on this team?
Who’s smoking today?
I know for _ I am.
Wait.
(1) The Falcons made a dumb trade, the mortgaged the future for 1 player… You don’t give up what they did for a guy like Jones because Jones isn’t what’s going to make a difference in the long run… Now that we’ve gotten that out there look at the Falcons issues, they’re probably losing some key members of their secondary, their OL needs some help, Turners got a ton of wear on him and their defense will likely need a lot of work up front.. They sold the farm for 1 guy when they have more than a few issues they’re going to need to address.
(2) Making a trade for a guy like RGIII wouldn’t be the dumbest thing in the world however there’s no doubt that if it takes anything more than switching firsts+2nd rounder+a mid rounder then it’s not worth it to move up for him especially when we have many holes to fill ourselves.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
by wild_eagle on Jan 22, 2012 11:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This might make more sense if there weren’t more pressing needs. Do I think Mike Vick is a great QB? No. But we’re in a much better position at QB than we are at LB or WR (depending on if desean stays).
Even if the Eagles pluck a solid LB from Free Agency and retain Jackson, they shouldn’t pick a QB until the 2nd round at the most because they’d still need to draft ANOTHER linebacker (not that they will).
I like RG3 and honestly I’d love to bring him here this season and give him a season to learn on the bench, it’d be a great situation. But if the Eagles gave up that much for a guy that wouldn’t play until next season, they’d be asking for another disappointing year.
I agree with this.
However if we go out there and grab a guy like Curtis Lofton then somebody like Dan Connor I think we can focus on other things and take a LB in the 2nd-4th range…
But that also means that we must retain Jackson and probably grab somebody to help our secondary like Griffin.
That’d free up some room to play around and go get a guy we deem as the next big thing so we can develop him slowly.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
…How isn’t Vick a great option at Quarterback…there aren’t many upgrades.
Formerly number5
RIP JJ
"Make sure you bone her in the missionary position (you on top) and right when you put it in her tell her in a microphony voice that "The Eagle has landed," and before you blow your load start waving your hands like you’re flying and screech like an eagle." - DickMuffin
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!
by HawaiianGreen on Jan 23, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
He’s a great “option” considering the alternatives right now, of course. I said he’s not a great QB. To me there’s a big difference there. He’s a good QB, not great. It seems as if people always want to go after the next Brady or Rodgers of the league, which is why I pointed it out. It’s not a NEED on our team. I even said if RG3 was somehow acquired he’d learn on the bench.
I think if they sign one stud LB in free agency
Then anything’s on the table as far as draft picks, given the ammo they have.
But I don’t see any way we’re a real player for RGIII. Whatever we’d be willing to give up to get him is going to be topped by a team that absolutely needs a franchise QB.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring it Home for Jerome.
You dont do this trade
for this simple fact that our teams NEED right now is not a QB. Drafting a high prospect QB with the intention to sit him for a year without addressing the glaring needs on defense would be foolish. It is just not worth it right now.
I like RGIII but its just not going to happen.
''All men who feel any power of joy in battle, know what it is like when the wolf rises in the heart.'' -Roosevelt
Perhaps...
We trade down with the Colts with the number 1 overall
Nab Luck
Let Disney figure out how to make this a plausible story
Needs and Holes
These arguments are basically the same: other spots must have priority because Vick is above average and the players at (LB, DB, whatever) aren’t.
That ignores that QB is by far the most important driver of wins. Way, way more than LB or DB.
If you replace Vick with a QB that has WPA of 4+ a season, you gain three wins a year.
If you replace Chaney with the best linebacker in football, you gain a win and a half. And the contributions from LBs fluctuated much more each year than QB play.
Said another way: even if Luke Kuechly walks onto the field as the best MLB in the NFL on day one, he will not make the impact that RGIII could as soon as next season. And over a career its not even remotely close.
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