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Here's A Few Problems Spags Couldn't Have Solved

ARLINGTON, TX - DECEMBER 24:  Tight end Jason Witten #82 of the Dallas Cowboys carries the ball against middle linebacker Casey Matthews #50 of the Philadelphia Eagles at Cowboys Stadium on December 24, 2011 in Arlington, Texas. (Photo by Tom Pennington/Getty Images)

Those of us on the "hire Spags" bandwagon had a rough day yesterday as Sean Payton sabotaged our brakes and sent us careening into a tree as he made off with our precious Spags. But as the dust settles, we have to admit that hiring Steve Spagnuolo would not have been a cure-all for what ails this defense.

What we can assume that Spags would have done is bring a superior scheme and playcalling ability. In his short time in New York, he proved to have a great feel for when and where to bring blitzes. He also got the most out of his pass rushers, but given that the Eagles led the league in sacks this past season, that's not exactly a weakness. But that said, this is no small thing. It's hard to quantify, but it is safe to assume that better scheming and playcalling would certainly have helped last year and would help going forward.

But we can't delude ourselves into thinking it was all scheme. There are plenty of things Spags would have no control over that were major reasons the Eagles D struggled at times last year.

Linebackers - He could nothing to change the fact that this is a very young group of mostly late round picks. With a full offseason of work, maybe he could improve them to a degree, but the same can be said for Juan Castillo. The bottom line is that the team needs and infusion of talent at the position more than it needs a new guy telling them where to go.

Turnovers - I don't care if you have the 85 Bears defense, when your offense leads the NFL in turnovers, the other side of the ball will be negatively affected. A Spags led defense would have been just like the Castiilo led defense was. Now maybe we can say that we think Spags is so smart that maybe he could have mitigated the impact of those turnovers more than Juan did... but there's no way on earth it doesn't have a pretty significant impact on his unit. The offense doing a better job protecting the ball will be a major part in the improvement of this defense regardless of who runs it.

Safety play - We also saw struggles from the safeties at time this year. Frankly, Spags wasn't going to make Jarrad Page into a decent player. Nate Allen was always going to struggle earlier as he still wasn't 100% after knee surgery. Kurt Coleman still is who he is, a seventh round pick in his second year. And Jaiquwan Jarrett was still going to be a rookie who had no offseason. Allen is healthy now and played really well over the last month, Jarrett is still a question mark but obviously he'll benefit from being with the team for a full offseason and there could also be more talent added to the position as well.

So whether it was going to be Spags, Juan or someone else... These are the major issues that plagued the team last year and still need to be fixed going into next season if the defensive coordinator is going to be successful. There is virtually nothing Spags could have done about any one of them.

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And Here's What Spags Didn't Do

He didn’t create a great or even very good defense in St. Louis in the years he was there.

by 999 on Jan 20, 2012 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

even in new york, he was blessed with an outstanding front seven

I hear you got quarterback problems i feel bad for you son...
i got 99 problems but vince aint one

by XxActionJacksonxX on Jan 20, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Did u watch Tim Lewis's defense?

essentially the same players but a TOTALLY different result

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Jan 20, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

No talent

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Jan 20, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

He had three years to acquire talent and the only two guys he got that were worth a damn were Laurinaitis and Mikell.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by alcatraz0109 on Jan 20, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot Chris Long.

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

Eli Manning has the personality of a baked potato.

by DickMuffin on Jan 21, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

you can have an elite player on your DL and watch him get focused on like trent cole before we had someone to compliment him… one player meant nothing

by ieatcrayons on Jan 21, 2012 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Chris Long was an ’08 pick, Spags was HC in ’09.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by alcatraz0109 on Jan 21, 2012 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The same point can easily be made for Marty. The offense’s issue was not the coach, scheme or play calling. Be it a bad read and a pick, a tipped ball, a drop or a fumble, what was wrong with the offense was holding on to the goddamed football.

by captain nodar on Jan 20, 2012 7:01 PM EST reply actions  

No, it was mainly the scheme/playcalling

-Ronnie Brown’s infamous play.
- Goal line woes.
-Not running the ball in a close game (without desean) against AZ

Were all major mishaps that fall on Marty, he can in noway be held blameless.

ok, the giants suck.
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 4th

by EagleEyes on Jan 20, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t think that first one was on him. We might never know for sure, but I think Brown admitted that one was on him.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

We’ve had so much trouble running up the middle in tight formations at the goal line in recent years (see any Chicago game, for instance), that it’s hard to fault the coaches for trying something different.

The “option” part of the run/pass option does not include throwing the ball while being tackled. That’s all on Ronnie Brown.

by MikeCampy on Jan 20, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What about schemes, identity, halftime adjustments, press coverage, teaching abilities, playcalling, eye for talent, etc.

"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins

#HireSpags

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by immynimmy on Jan 20, 2012 7:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

What about them? I acknowledged that.

Some of those are things that Spags could have improved on. But none of that improves on any of the other weaknesses mentioned.

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by JasonB on Jan 20, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i hope jarret pans out. we’ve been missing dawkins ever since he left us….i’d hate to waste another early pick on one. i doubt we would use a 1st on one but unless barron falls to 45 or 46 i think we should hold off

by phillyfan330 on Jan 20, 2012 7:47 PM EST reply actions  

when was the last high defensive draft pick pan out for the eagles?

by Easedel on Jan 21, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Corey Simon. Sort of.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Spags could have kept the LB’s and safeties out of positions they didn’t belong in, like covering the best WR in football.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 8:17 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah that certainly would have helped…

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by JasonB on Jan 20, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

But could he have kept Asante from freewheeling and losing the game for them against Arizona?

by bdawk4ever on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Possibly. Or he may have had NA following Fitz the whole game.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

a few probs Spags couldn't solve?

A million Juan won’t!

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."-Bill Shankly

Got bad knees and a high motor? Well cmon on over to PHILLY, we'll do our best to put you in the right position and do a better job!

by theaction on Jan 20, 2012 8:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

What he can do...

Is scheme to cover the defensive weaknesses. JJ was a master at masking the weaknesses and you would have to think that Spags learned some of his tricks.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Jan 20, 2012 8:45 PM EST reply actions  

well maybe he could determine that jarrad page couldnt play. how was juan supposed to know that?

by juggadore on Jan 20, 2012 8:55 PM EST reply actions  

Would Spags have started Jarrad Page and Casey Matthews?

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:19 PM EST reply actions  

Probably, since that’s what he was given.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, so we started those two all year because we had no other options? That doesn’t seem to be what I remember. What I remember is that they were benched and the defense immediately got better (from worst to bad).

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, you’re gonna criticize him for making changes that improved the team? What if he had started the others all year? You’d be saying “he should have tried other players, shake up something to see if it makes a difference.” Are you gonna criticize Mudd/Mornhinweg/Reid for starting DeVan over Watkins? You gonna blame Reid for starting Kolb over Vick last year? Plus, Allen was recovering from his injury and was plain awful until the end of the season, so he would hardly have been an improvement. Starting Rolle was the only major improvement I saw in the LB corps, and that started in week 4. He made adjustments — you can’t demonize him for starting the “wrong” players the first couple of weeks; it happens with every team.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I’m criticizing him for these reasons:
A. Starting Casey Matthew and Page in the first place.
B. Yes the changes ended up being positive but his defense was still terrible.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s not pretend that he started these guys over vastly better options to start the season. Page was the lone veteran of the safeties, with only second year players and a rookie as depth. And our Linebacker depth wasn’t much better. Hindsight is 20/20, nice job.

by Wokjab on Jan 20, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a stupid argument.

Person A: “Slavery was bad.”
Person B: “Nice job captain hindsight.”

How the hell else are we supposed to evaluate someone’s performance?

And the linebacker situation isn’t even hindsight, anyone who watched the pre-season and knew anything about football knew the linebackers were a problem. People were actively questioning why Juan started Chaney at SLB and Fokou at WLB before the season.

Jarrad Page was hindsight but you have to have your defensive coordinator make better decisions. It isn’t like “Oh, the guy on the bench was better. Honest mistake.” No, Page was legitimately the worst safety in the NFL, we might as well have been playing with 10 players. That isn’t an honest mistake, that is a total misjudgment that Juan should be held accountable for.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a stupid argument.

Person A: "Slavery was bad."
Person B: "Nice job captain hindsight."

Tbh, this is a stupid (or at best, moot) point. Slavery didn’t look bad at the time. It took thousands and thousands of years to convince the world that it was wrong/bad. In 1861, plenty of people still said slavery was a good thing. Using your analogy, its still 1861 for the Eagles — its way too soon to be making definitive judgments. The Eagles could win 5 SBs with Castillo and then we’d be calling him the best DC we’ve ever had. You’re making rash judgments without enough time to reflect.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

The fuck?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The shit?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

?

Anthro has a really good point here

Just wait until December..

by maximdim on Jan 20, 2012 10:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No, he fucking doesn’t.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Well since you know everything I guess you’re right.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Slavery didn’t look bad at the time.

This is the part where you you shut the fuck up.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

It didn’t I’m not talking about just in America, everywhere used slavery. Africa had slaves of its own before white people came. I don’t think slavery was good, but people did then. That’s a fact, and if you don’t like it then take it up with the dead people who believed it, not me.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

This is where hindsight comes in. This is why hindsight is useful.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely, hindsight comes in years later. Slavery started at shortly after the start of the agricultural revolution and it took 20,000 years for society to say, “Wait a second, isn’t this kinda bad?” I’m saying its too soon to judge in this case.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

And people with hindsight supported slavery too. There were tons of people who owned slaves and after 60 years of owning them never said “Y’know, this wasn’t right.” Hindsight isn’t always as definitive as it looks — everyone agrees now how bad slavery was, but they haven’t always seen that.

And here’s a not for KByars — slavery sucked, we all know that. I’m not racist, calm the fuck down.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The pseudo-intellectual bullshit gets old. Shut up about it.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This isn’t pseudo-intellectual, this is history. If you had ever taken a history course you had discussions like this. Perceptions change over time, that’s not pseudo-intellect, that’s fucking life.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that’s you saying something stupid, then rather than just shutting up about it, you try to defend it.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

What I said wasn’t stupid, it was stupid that people ever felt that way. What I said is undeniable fact.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

That people didn’t get that slavery was wrong. Just shut up about it.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what, I’m done with this shit. I know more about it than you do, and you’re proving to be a complete ignoramus right now so I’m done. Go find a source that says nobody ever agreed with slavery and I’ll agree I was wrong.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Slavery didn’t look bad at the time.

Hey kid, this is exactly what you said. Now, go find me a source that says no one knew slavery was wrong.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

THIS DOESN’T SAY NOBODY!!! THIS IS WHAT I’M SAYING!!! You aren’t reading. To a large amount of people, it didn’t look bad. I’m just… ugh, i give up. You’re not going to give in until I say it, so you’re right. Okay, you’re right, I’m stupid, I give up. Okay, happy? Jesus fucking Christ…

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Now, go find me a source that says no one knew slavery was wrong.

Then why was there slavery IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!

That’s like knowing robbing a bank is bad and then doing it anyways.

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Fucking dumbass.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Hey look a troll with nothing to add to the proceedings. How did I know it would be you?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Troll, eh? Super dumbass. Notice how no one agrees with you. You don’t even read, you have your moms horse blinders on. Jesus.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

About what I’d expect. Not much of a thinker.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

ohfoshoyoudamanyoudaman!!!!!sosmartsosmarthowudoithowudoit

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re completely on a tangent at this point. You’ve lost sight of the original topic.

We’re talking about the legitimacy of hindsight and how it can be used to make correct judgments. For some reason you’re arguing that hindsight isn’t that clear and that slavery had some sort of legitimacy at some point simply because people thought it was okay. Well guess what, THAT IS THE ENTIRE DAMN POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION. People thought it was okay at the time, hindsight reveals that it really wasn’t.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m on a tangent because I’m being called a racist, which is insane and to be quite honest, really saddening. People don’t read, and all of a sudden I think slavery was great! …yeah, that’s simply awesome. I’m angry about the lack of reading comprehension. Other people understood my point, but because you two got angry this thread exploded into “Anthro’s a slavery-loving racist.” That’s fucking fun for me, right?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude don't worry

We know you aren’t racist and don’t support slavery

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

On a side note, I think it would be ignorant of one to say that slavery has been completely abolished from the present world. Some shifty shit goes down in Europe/Third World Countries.

I guess the glory that was the Philadelphia Eagles off-season counter-acts the dump that was the Flyers. Hmph.

by Lip-Out on Jan 20, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

A couple of things are going on here:
1. KByars is taking the tack that if you even mention slavery, you’re a racist. Anthro is right in that slavery existed a long time and it’s history has only very recently been associated with racism. It’s a very crappy thing, always has been. Slaves built the pyramids, built a lot of shit in Rome, etc. It’s been around forever and it’s not just Europeans enslaving Africans. Those are all cold, hard, facts, so slavery as a discussion topic is not just relegated to race issues.
2. Anthro gives a horrible example of hindsight with slavery. I get what you were saying, I just think it’s a bad example. And it brings all of the reactionary idiots out of the woodwork. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, and Eagles fans in particular think it must not exist, but your example was a bad one because it didn’t really prove your point.

by laeagle2k10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, that comaprison was d-jacks, I just shouldn’t have countered it.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha yeah look who even brought this shit up. Using slavery to make a point about discussing hindsight in football. Dewd's a fkn genuses.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Who the frig are you?
I didn’t say he was racist. I said he was a dumbass for asserting that people didn’t know that slavery was wrong.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

People didn’t think slavery was wrong. Except people who were slaves. And then, years later, people starting having problems with it and started things like the abolitionist movement. I guarantee you the only people who thought slavery was bad while the pyramids were being built were the slaves.

by laeagle2k10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

You jumped in.

That isn’t what we’re talking about. I’m not talking about the legitimacy of slavery at the time, obviously people thought it was legitimate otherwise it wouldn’t have happened. The point I’m making is that we can use hindsight to definitively judge slavery today and say with confidence that slavery was bad.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

But they didn’t. Read a book. Slavery is as old as civilization.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Clarifying.

I’m actually not really sure what KByars is doing after reading his comments. I know what I’m doing, I’m arguing for the legitimacy of hindsight. I just happened to use a sensitive example, my bad.

I used the slavery example as “evidence” to the point that hindsight can be used and that the person saying that you can’t say slavery was bad because of the use of hindsight is wrong. Thats all.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Slaves did Not but the Pryamids nor did Aliens.

ok, the giants suck.
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 4th

by EagleEyes on Jan 21, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I built the Pryamids..

Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...

Wild_Eagle!

Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.

-Awarded by Number5

Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!

by wild_eagle on Jan 22, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

what you said was a bit uneducated dude….just because people did it, doesnt mean they didnt think it was wrong. Weak minds get caught in situational circumstances all the time…..

Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !

by ShadyMcVickFactor on Jan 21, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Uneducated? I’m going to graduate school for colonial American history. The whole reason slavery existed is because people believed believed in it. Southern landowners believed they were saving slaves from lives as poor heathens by taking them in, clothing them, and providing them with a chance to humble themselves with work. It’s fact that people felt this way. Horribly, horribly wrong (Idk how they thought the savage beatings and separation of family was a good thing), but it happened.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Answer me this dude:

If a baby picks up a gun and kills a man…is it wrong?

Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !

by ShadyMcVickFactor on Jan 21, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

No, but you’re gonna have to explain what you’re trying to say here…

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

What i mean is, he doesnt know thats its wrong….

Just like our simple misguided greedy for power minds worked back in the day. I agree with you that some people actually believed that it was ok. Just like people still think smoking cigarettes is ok, and that it has no effects on healthcare and our tax dollars. But to say that its not wrong is simply not true. I do get that this convo goit way out of hand though.

Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !

by ShadyMcVickFactor on Jan 21, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course slavery is wrong, and I got upset that people didn’t realize I felt that way. Slavery is one of the worst things that ever happened to humanity. But like you said, people honestly believed it wasn’t wrong, misguided as they were.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure as a Colonial American History major you must have heard of “A Peoples History of the United States of America” by Howard Zinn. I’m reading it now. It’s awesome, and I haven’t taken a history course since high school.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I actually hadn’t heard the name, but he was at Boston before my advisor was there, preceding Alan Taylor, so I’m sure he’s quite good. My prof worked with Taylor, so I know his works better.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha. Look into the book if you ever have a chance.
And by Boston, do you mean BU?

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup, BU. Should have clarified with BC, Harvard, Northeastern, etc. all there.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

My girl went to BC. I’m actually sitting in her Southie apartment right now.
I’m from Philly area, but I gotta say, I love the Philadelphia Eagles meet-up game watch spot at An Tua Nuas. Have you been?

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

No — I actually go to school in upstate New York, but I’m from CT so I’m somewhat familiar with Boston. I’m actually considering UMass Amherst for grad school if I don’t get into the PhD program at UConn.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Very cool. Good luck man.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks!

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you really pushing the idea of altruistic slave owners?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

If you’re not going to read, please stop commenting.

Uneducated? I’m going to graduate school for colonial American history. The whole reason slavery existed is because people believed believed in it. Southern landowners believed they were saving slaves from lives as poor heathens by taking them in, clothing them, and providing them with a chance to humble themselves with work. It’s fact that people felt this way. Horribly, horribly wrong (Idk how they thought the savage beatings and separation of family was a good thing), but it happened.

I’m not arguing anything, its fact. People believed this, and they were wrong to do so. I’ll find the sources if you really want, although I’d prefer you stop antagonizing and leave it alone.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

You are apparently way too young and naive for this discussion.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Here you go again. How’s that dominance complex you got going on, still want the last word?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I was being completely sincere. You don’t seem to grasp that people make excuses for or try to rationalize their actions when they commit bad acts.
Would you expect their discussions to say outright that they’re villains or would you expect some half-assed excuse justifying their behavior?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Can we have a serious debate with out you being a douche?

If so, I’ll be open to this discussion.

Of course people make excuses. If that was your point all along you should have said so instead of simply ridiculing me and just saying “You’re wrong.” I grasp that people make excuses, but people make excuses when they live in a world that says their actions are wrong. Most people (NOT ALL) supported slavery for a long time. People began making excuses when they were told it was wrong, but until they were told it was wrong, nobody thought it was.

Its a fact that people SAID they believed it was right. It is my opinion that they honestly believed that they were right. You are free to feel otherwise, but you can’t tell me I’m wrong. And if you hadn’t been a condescending dick from the start, maybe this whole thing could have been avoided.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

You still imply that not a single slave owner knew (not acknowledged, knew) that what they were doing was wrong, and that is absolutely ludicrous.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

A single one? Yes, of course. There had to be tons who knew it was wrong. But there were others who honestly believed it was right.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

So this fucking thing right here,

Slavery didn’t look bad at the time.

The thing we’ve been talking about this whole fucking time. You don’t agree with?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

No, you’re looking at it too simply. To most people, slavery looked fine. Whether or not they honestly believed it was (I think most people did) is another question, but most people saw slavery as just there, not right or wrong. But of course people knew it was wrong, just not everyone.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

If the people who weren’t engaging in it knew it was wrong, and the people on the receiving end of it knew it was wrong, along with many of the people forcing people into slavery knew it was wrong, then it did look bad at the time.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

To those people, yes it looked wrong. To those people, it looked bad. But to the other people who thought slavery was okay or even a good thing, they didn’t think it was bad. I think there were more people saying it was good than saying it was bad. That balance started to change towards the 18th and 19th centuries, but for a long time, more people thought (or at least said) slavery was okay than not.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

This is getting very esoteric. So now we’re down to the small percentage of the population that engaged in owning slaved and genuinely believed that it was ok, which in your estimation is not a heavy majority of that subset.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

We're getting somewhere here
So now we’re down to the small percentage of the population that engaged in owning slaved and genuinely believed that it was ok,

Yes

which in your estimation is not a heavy majority of that subset.

No, that’s by your estimation. By my estimation, it was very fluid. Slavery has been around for a long, long time. At its peak, let’s say during the classical period of the Mediterranean, it was normal for people to own slaves and most people thought it was fine. Towards the end of slavery the tide of public opinion began to turn, and more and more people saw it for the evil it was.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, of course. There had to be tons who knew it was wrong.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Tons of Americans are of Burmese decent. Not a high percentage.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

So, general knowledge has been that the shit is wrong, but engaged in for personal benefit, which absolves a very limited group to innocence through ignorance.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay, we’re going backwards here and I don’t like this direction. You think that most people thought it was right but made excuses, and very few actually thought it was right. I think most people who supported it really thought it was right, and the rest made up excuses.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

So, in Germany, killing Jews wasn’t a bad thing until the Allies came along and told the Germans otherwise? You can absolve them through ignorance? They genuinely couldn’t know it was wrong, because it was accepted practice?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:54 AM EST up reply actions  

No, because they didn’t grow up in an environment where killing Jews was okay. We’re getting out of history and into philosophy/sociology/anthropology. Even as an anthro student, I’ll admit its a more fluid field. If we go down this track we’re talking opinion, not fact.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

So how could a German know that the Final Solution is bad, but a slave owner not know that enslaving people is bad?
Do you see what I’m getting at here?
Saying,

Slavery didn’t look bad at the time.
offers a certain amount of absolution to people who defiled others in one of the worst ways possible. You do not need someone to tell you that kidnapping, trading, beating, raping, killing, and forcing servitude upon others is wrong, regardless of what the current norm is.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

You’re absolutely right, but there’s a difference between killing and enslaving, as well as enslaving and enslaving and savagely beating. Did you have siblings? If so, did you ever have the wager that they’d be your “slave” for a week and you wouldn’t tell on them for something? Happened with me and my bro, but we never tried to kill each other.

Slavery, along with rape, physical abuse, and emotional trauma is different, and the people who were committing those acts — the people who saw it first hand, had to know it was wrong. But without the damaging affects of the abuse and emotional trauma, slavery doesn’t seem so bad, so those who don’t see the pain don’t see what’s wrong. But I do agree, anybody who commits murder, excessive violence, or rape has to know that they’re doing something wrong.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

So, it did look bad.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Whatever.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I.e., not its not okay.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

*NO its not okay to Kill Jews. Man I’m tired.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

That is to say that it was known, if not widely acknowledged, to be wrong, but engaged in regardless.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't believe slavery was ok EVER

But back then some to a majority of slave owner did believe it was ok.

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

*owners

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

You and wok are not getting what’s being discussed.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

read above. You missed something somewhere. Thats the only way I can understand your outrage.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

KByars is taking the peculiarly cynical-but-at-the-same-time-not-cynical approach that while people said it was right, they truly believed that it wasn’t and they were just making excuses so they could keep owning slaves. It took him a while to get to that point, but I guess I know what he’s saying. I disagree, but I get it.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

No offense KByers, but Anthro has a point that has been documented heavily throughout history. It sounds strange, but legitimately people didn’t recognize slavory as wrong.

I just needed to throw this out there so you don’t continue to believe that Anthro is just a crazy loon spewing garbage.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

See the above.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Dumbass

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

They are both right.

Juan Castillo IS a stupid motherfucker who deserves to be fired.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Jan 21, 2012 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Dude

You’re just digging yourself in deeper and deeper. There was nothing positive about slavery. It was never legitimate. It was inhumane. Some people thought Slavery was warranted and acceptable, those people were wrong. Hindsight makes this as clear as day. Using hindsight we can look back and make correct judgements about situations. For example, we can now look back and say definitively that slavery was bad. Clear as day, plain and simple. Discussion over. I have no idea why you’re saying all this BS.

What the hell is so hard to get?

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

So you're not reading either?
There was nothing positive about slavery.

Never said there was, show me where I did.

It was inhumane.

I said that, word for word, in another comment.

Some people thought Slavery was warranted and acceptable, those people were wrong.

I said this, almost word for word, in another comment.

Hindsight makes this as clear as day.

I said this in another comment.

What the hell is so hard to get?

I could ask you the same. You guys see “slavery” and “good” and you go off the deep end without reading. Look through my comments, I said over and over and over that I thought slavery was bad and other people should have too. But they didn’t, and even people with hindsight failed to see that. Hindsight isn’t always correct, and hindsight changes over time. I’m so angry and kind of bummed right now that you guys can’t fucking read what I’m saying. When i argue with you guys I at least try to understand your point. but you’re just reading a few words and assuming you know what I wrote in the middle. Read my comments, d-jack. Tell me if I support slavery after reading all of my comments.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you don’t get it. We aren’t talking about the legitimacy of slavery in the 1860’s, we’re talking about the legitimacy of slavery now. Which, there is none because hindsight has revealed there was none and that it was completely unacceptable.

I know that you don’t support slavery, I know that but I don’t understand why you’re arguing that it was legitimate at some point simply because people believed in it. And I don’t know why you’re saying that hindsight isn’t clear in this scenario, IMO it is pretty damn clear and I’m pretty sure that nobody is going to revert back to that antebellum southern mentality. That’s all I’m saying.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m done, d-jack. This got ridiculously out of hand because nobody was willing to step back and try to comprehend. Just attacked. I’m done.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Who attacked you? Nobody even insinuated that. We’re just saying that you were wrong to say that hindsight is muddled in regards to hindsight in terms of slavery.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright, gonna try one more time with you, too. In the 1860s, slavery in the US was brought to an end. In that time, i.e. the days following the end of slavery (so slavery was over), people were divided on whether or not it had been morally right or wrong. It was over, so they had hindsight, but people were still divided. Turns out the anti-slavery people were right.

In 2011, the Eagles promoted Castillo to DC. After the season was over, people were split on whether or not he should be retained. Even though we have some hindsight, people are still divided. Given further hindsight, just as in slavery, we will be able to tell who was right and wrong. But right now its still too soon, just like the 1860s was too soon to judge slavery. We need to give Castillo’s legacy more time before we judge it.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions  

So if history has taught us anything...

the anit-Juan side is right? hahaha

/trolling

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Neither of you understand what he’s saying.

Hate to break it to you but it was an accepted and legitimate practice, especially considering how people back then viewed certain races as inferior.

And hindsight isn’t what keeps us from reverting to our slave mongering days, our humanity, compassion an empathy, and intellect has guided us to where we are now.

by SuburbanElite on Jan 21, 2012 3:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Looking back, that is correct. We look back and see how brutal that was and decide as a culture and race that we’re not tolerant of that sort of misjudgment. We now realize that it was completely and wholly wrong by using hindsight.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 21, 2012 3:23 AM EST up reply actions  

So, everyone was totally cool with slavery?
You said something stupid; just shut up about it.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you fucking read? Seriously, you are pissing me off so much right now. Where did I say EVERYONE was cool with it? Of course not everyone liked it! But it existed for some 20,000 years, so obviously a few people did, right? Since you’re being an idiot about this whole analogy, maybe I need to clear this up — OF COURSE slavery sucked, of course it was terrible, of course it was inhumane, and of course it should never have happen and should never happen again. But it happened, it had millions of supporters throughout time, and i took forever to get rid of.

Please dude, read what I’m saying instead of jumping off the deep end. You’re acting like an idiot instead of trying to comprehend.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps you could supply an out of context, mis-quote from one of your professors here.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps you could read a fucking book. This isn’t some shit I’m making up, slavery has definitively existed for thousands and thousands of years. No institution lasts that long without public support. You don’t know your shit on this, but you hate being wrong. Just shut up about it — if you don’t want to be wrong then don’t talk about shit you know nothing about.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, you’re right. No one figured out slavery was bad until America.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, is that what I said? America was the last place to get rid of it (that I’m aware of), so it existed until then, and people supported it until then. Why is this so hard for you? People supported/went against it for as long as it existed, why do you have an issue with me saying that?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Slavery didn’t look bad at the time.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Both Kbyars and D-Jack need to become slaves…You seriously can’t comprehend Anthro’s premise? Read his initial post and then get educated. You two must be butt buddies or somethin’..

by DeshawnBentley on Jan 20, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Hi Anthro.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What? We need to become slaves because we think that slavery was always illegitimate using hindsight (and this is a WIDELY accepted school of thought)?

Alrighty then.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

He wasn’t saying that slavery wasn’t always illegitimate.

He’s say AT THE TIME a lot of people thought slavery was legitimate.

You’re arguing against the clear facts of history.

I don’t get it.

by bdawk4ever on Jan 21, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

People thought slavery at the time was legitimate, that has not been contested by me. My problem is with him arguing that hindsight in regards to slavery isn’t clear when in reality I think it is fairly clear that slavery is no longer accepted and we’ve come to that conclusion via hindsight.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 21, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

No, you twisted his original statement to try to rope this conversation back to hindsight. You are confusing this whole thing. You’d save some typing if you just re-read.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

No, that isn’t the case. Go back and read the original statement that led to this, KByars and Anthro are on a completely unrelated tangent at this point.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 21, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but you weren’t reading KB’s points and you were assuming he was supporting you because I was arguing against him. You were referring to yourself as being with KB at one point, which was throwing me off. I thought you were supporting his attacking.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually

Africa NEVER dealt with Slavery, They dealt with “Prisoners of War” which was nothing like being a Slave.And The Actual word “Slave” comes from an older word “Slovak” which was from the Slovania area, they were the First “Slaves”. Ironically to peoples of African decent, but again I wasn’t the Dehumanizing process that was taken by the ex-Brits.

ok, the giants suck.
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 4th

by EagleEyes on Jan 21, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Right?! The fuck Anthro?

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

What’s the problem? And what’s with the fucking attitude? Both of you need to deal better with being disagreed with. There are no facts on this subject, just opinion. Anything that you say is fact requires some level of speculation and I’m allowed to disagree. Holy shit you guys get sensitive about this. Its not a personal gripe when people disagree with you.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Expect knee jerk reactions on a blog. And I would have explained other things that didn’t look bad at the time too: burning witches at the stake, not being hygienic , arguments would end when one person would shoot the other. Etc…

by Saidrick on Jan 20, 2012 11:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m glad at least a few people get it. Honestly, this whole convo really killed my spirit for this place. I shouldn’t be called a racist for making a simple analogy. I’m beyond done.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody called you a racist, you’re arguing that hindsight is muddled, even in regards to slavery. That is my issue, I think that it is pretty clear that slavery was bad and I’m fairly confident that nobody is going to change their opinion on that issue.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t call you a racist. I called you a dumbass for saying that people didn’t know that slavery was wrong.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

People did. That was my point. Not everyone. I said people, you read “every person.”

But I’m not saying any more on this. If you still don’t get what I was trying to say, then I’m done. I’d just be repeating myself.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

So, people did know it was wrong. Now, please let it drop.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to have the last word, huh?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but I’m guessing that you do.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Jan 20, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol +1

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No you went off on some crazy statement that makes no sense.

by bdawk4ever on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Football is a trial and error sport. I’ll get bashed for this, but I support this coach who went with his gut first, but made changes once things weren’t working.

However, imho, Person A’s frustration and anger is clouding his analysis. He’s forgetting that a first year coordinator doesn’t burst out of the gate with a perfect defense. And this is especially true with a completely flawed group of players, many of which (backers, safeties) were also very inexperienced.

by Wokjab on Jan 20, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

So Juan Castillo doesn’t deserve any blame for his gut being wrong?

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

How can you criticize him for that though? Every coach starts players who they bench later. Did you ignore the rest of the comment about the offensive line and Kolb/Vick?

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t expect it to be a cure but dammit it would be a step in the right direction this fucking sucks and I don’t think there’s anything that fat asshole, the organization, or any reporter can sell me on this team if Juan is still the DC next year.

by fhqwagads on Jan 20, 2012 9:27 PM EST reply actions  

Just a note:

Spags won a superbowl with James Butler, Gibril Wilson and Michael Johnson as his safeties.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:42 PM EST reply actions  

Really, Spags won that Superbowl? It had nothing to do with the defensive line and LBs? had nothing to do with the offense and an incredibly lucky helmet catch? Nothing to do with any other coaches?

You’re making way too big of a deal out of something that you simply do not know. You can think this was the wrong decision, but until it plays out you won’t know for sure.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Spags had a big role in winning the Superbowl. His defense, using his game-plan and his scheme, held the most prolific offense of all time (at the time) to 14 points.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot his players. It’s one thing to have one bad unit, we had two. And what happened to “This is all Roseman’s fault because the personnel sucked!”? Is it the players? The coaches? The GM? Blaming everyone doesn’t solve anything, you’ve got to hone in on the problems and fix those.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, so multiple people can’t be at fault for something?

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Could be. But is getting rid of all the players, the coaches, and the management gonna turn this team around quickly? Or are you saying its time to blow the entire thing up and hope we rebound in 10-20 years? You try one thing at a time — you don’t diagnose diseases by giving the patient medicine for everything that might be wrong.

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 20, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Stop acting like we dont have any real talent on the defense we have Nnamdi Asomugha a cornerback some people say transcends the game, and Cullen Jenkins who was such a valuable piece to the Packers was a big reason, they dropped to the 32nd ranked defense from a top 5 defense in 2010. We also have Jason Babin who nearly beat the sack record. This is great talent and most DC’s beg for this kind of talent to work with but make better due with less. Brian Dawkins was great because JJ made him a centerpiece of the defense for years. Juan doesn’t scheme to his player’s strengths in fact this year he did the opposite and put them at their weakest places this year. Nnamdi playing zone, Asante playing off coverage against crappy receivers and getting beat on slants, putting DRC in the slot when you already had a serviceable slot corner in Hanson. Playing musical chairs with the linebackers and safeties every week. The only thing under control this whole year was the D-line which I’m pretty sure was mostly if not entirely under Jim Washburn’s control.

by fhqwagads on Jan 21, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Where did I say we didn’t have talent? Jesus, tired of arguing tonight, maybe tomorrow…

Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green

by AnthroEagle on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

A good coordinator would cover up the weaknesses

Isn’t that what JJ did and those who came after him didn’t?

by eagles2zc on Jan 20, 2012 10:02 PM EST reply actions  

If you mean weaknesses on offense, then yes. JJ’s defenses pre-Super Bowl were legit. Everything since 2005… not so much. That speaks to deeper issues about this current regime.

by Eagle Fly Free on Jan 20, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

not one memorable linebacker since trotter. Plus this whole rebuilding process really left the D without any leadership

by eagles2zc on Jan 21, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Ding, ding! WINNER.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But you assume that Spags could have done that.

by bdawk4ever on Jan 21, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

yea true, big assumption. I just dont trust Juan’s scheme, even with a year’s experience under his belt

by eagles2zc on Jan 21, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

This post is really irrelevant comfort

While there are evident things personnel-wise that Spags couldn’t fix, the purpose of hiring Spags was not to fix the personnel but rather to do the best with the personnel at hand.

Nobody rips Juan because the linebackers suck, or the safeties suck. They rip Juan because they believe he put those players in a sucky position to succeed.

The #HireSpags campaign was about getting a competent D-coordinator to do the best with what we had, albeit some cruddy personnel at places. To take comfort in the fact that there are things he could not have fixed would truly be fools gold.

I guess the glory that was the Philadelphia Eagles off-season counter-acts the dump that was the Flyers. Hmph.

by Lip-Out on Jan 20, 2012 11:00 PM EST reply actions  

But changes he made could have actually hurt worse than keeping one. Continuity is important.

by bdawk4ever on Jan 21, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm so happy we kept Juan

Juan’s going to take us to the next level!
I want to see Andy get creative again, like maybe move McCoy to FB and Lewis to HB.
Can’t wait to see what Andy has in store for us whooohooo!

by EaglesNeedD on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 PM EST reply actions  

.

I imagine people making this facial expression when they read through this for the first time.

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 20, 2012 11:44 PM EST reply actions  

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Still laughing at the picture as I write this.

by Saidrick on Jan 21, 2012 12:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

At least we get back to football down here.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Jan 21, 2012 2:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Stay N Go List 2012

Stay List :

Ronnie Brown (wildcat expert)
Vince Young ( This is a Michael Vick without broken ribs)
Steve Smith (played for the Giants, elite WR)
Jarred Page (underated pro bowl calibur db)
Hall/Cooper (WR’s that put the fear in the heart of any cb)
Casey Matthews ( brother to that Green Bay dude)
Jamar Chaney (survive neck surgery, you can survive anything)
Hoselio Hanson ( Cool name, like a black way of naming a child Jose)
King Dunlop ( He grows an inch taller every year, plus he’s a king)
Owen Schmitt ( he makes Weaver look like, well …..Weaver!)
Juan Castillo ( he can make alot of tacos)
Andy Reid ( he can eat alot of tacos)

Got to go list!

Michael Vick ( Runs with the ball to slow)
McCoy ( shifts too much, just run the ball straight down the field )
Maclin ( He sprays his hands with Pan before every game)
Avant ( after every play he reaches for the sky and shakes his hands, strange dude)
Nnamdi (I’m sorry but this man’s so dumb he spells his name with two “N”)
Celek ( dudes a bum he drinks too much captain morgan)
Jackson (this fool wants money, play for free or quit dumb retard)
Jason Peters ( with those braids who’s he trying to be cute for? the DE"s?)
Watkins ( This clown’s alter ego is a fireman)
Asante Samuel ( Yea he can play CB, but he can’t play MLB so eff him)
Rolle ( related to a giants player that can’t be good)
Lewis ( I seen migets taller than him)

by EaglesNeedD on Jan 21, 2012 12:11 AM EST reply actions  

O

The Curse of Lombardi
Iggles Nest
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Jan 21, 2012 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

sprays pan?`How does that work

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Jan 21, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

How much you got

is it worth it to sue you

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Jan 21, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh...no

Didn’t even interview Spagnuolo (DC) OR Philbin (OC) when they were available; another year of watching mediocrity. Like watching your favorite female fighter skater fall performing a triple axle.. just sad

by Lawdhvmercy on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Oopps

figure skater

by Lawdhvmercy on Jan 21, 2012 1:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Ok I'll take over for Anthro

The debate up there isn’t if Anthro is racist (which he’s not), but whether or not people belived in racism back then. People DID, that’s why it existed back then , people were happy making money of enslaving human beings and treating them brutally.

Formerly number5
RIP JJ
Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT
Fear Tebus(Tim 3:16)!!!

by HawaiianGreen on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions  

That’s what I read above. Somehow, not everyone comprehended it all the same way.

by Wokjab on Jan 21, 2012 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

People still believe its ok, ie sweat shops.

by SuburbanElite on Jan 21, 2012 3:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

How is that slavery they choose to work there

Last name Ever
First name Greatest

#PayDeSeanJackson

by Djax10 on Jan 21, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Bingo, if only people would fucking read before attacking we'd avoid things like this.

Anthro, you did nothing wrong and you deserve an apology from those who attacked you.

Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...

Wild_Eagle!

Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.

-Awarded by Number5

Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!

by wild_eagle on Jan 21, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Actually

I just read it all, and the debate was about the relevance of hindsight. KB and AE got into some nonsense about whether people at the time thought slavery was good, which AE eventually conceded (albeit vaguely, and he still had to throw around insults and claim he was right all along).

by smeagle on Jan 22, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Spags wouldn't have fixed everything overnight.

Switching up the D once again would have probably been pointless. With Spags comes the 2 gap thus making Jenkins a high priced player who no longer fits our DL, Babin probably reverts to his pre-Washburn days and our LB’s still will be severely undertalented..

But with Spags we do get a guy with experience…

Honestly I think keeping Castillo may be the best choice as of right now, once the D got clicking late in the season we got a small taste of what can happen, also keep in mind that Castillo blitzed more and more as the season went on and I’d like to see what he draws up over the offseason…. Give Castillo some LB’s and time and lets see what happens.

Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...

Wild_Eagle!

Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.

-Awarded by Number5

Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!

by wild_eagle on Jan 21, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

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