Theismann: Cardinals "Reached An Awful Lot" On Kevin Kolb
by JasonB on Jan 11, 2012 12:00 PM EST
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintJoe Theismann was a guest on a Seattle radio station yesterday and cautioned the Seahawks against making what he sees as the mistake that Arizona did trading for Kevin Kolb.
Theismann said the Cardinals "reached an awful lot" when they traded for quarterback Kevin Kolb and signed him to a lucrative deal last offseason. He said he thinks Green Bay's Matt Flynn is a better quarterback than Kolb, but that the Seahawks should stick with Jackson for another year.
The Cardinals gave up Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second round pick in this year's draft for Kolb. In return they got 9 games, 9 TDs, 8 INTs, and 8 fumbles. There's no doubt that at least in year one, Kolb was a bust for Arizona. Part of that is certainly due to his inability to stay healthy, which is itself due to the Cardinals inability protect him... but the fact is that they no doubt expected more than they got.
Now, there's talk that the Cards could cut bait on Kolb after just one year. The speculation is mostly based on the fact that if they cut him now, they'd avoid paying him a huge $7 million roster bonus and 8 figure salaries in each of the last five years of his deal.
While DRC really didn't start to look good here until the end of the year and we don't know what the Eagles will do with that second round pick, it certainly seems that the Eagles "won" this trade so far. But, the book is certainly not totally written yet.
So two questions for discussion. Do you think that Kolb can become a decent starting QB still? Also, would Kevin Kolb have done a better job than Vince Young as the Eagles backup this year? Keep in mind that if the Eagles had won just one more of Young's starts, they'd be in the playoffs.
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There’s no question Kolb would have been better than Vince Young this season. It’s a fair question to ask. Do they win in Seattle with Kolb instead of VY? Maybe.
And another question… Would Kolb come back to Philly if he indeed does get cut and doesn’t find a team out there willing to ride with him as the #1 guy?
Kolb may never reach his potential now
the concussion he suffered against the packers at the hands of Clay Matthews in the 2010 opener has been a lingering injury issue for him this year. yes, the cardinals o-line is not that great, but kolb still disappointed when he had the chance. unfortunately for kolb, he may never find as much success as he would have if Vick never came into the picture in 2010. in a vick-less world, kolb would have had two full seasons (disregarding injuries) by now and would likely be considered a viable franchise qb, rather than someone who might get cut. it would be wise for the cardinals to give him another shot. if they don’t i would happily welcome him to backup Vick, but we all know he’d rather start. as for DRC playing as well as he did down the stretch, likely ensuring himself a starting CB gig next year, and that second round pick we’re still waiting to use—it’s hard to imagine a scenario in the next year or two where anyone could say we didn’t “win” that trade. only time will tell.
by Nathan Mandel on Jan 11, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
the concussion he suffered against the packers at the hands of Clay Matthews in the 2010 opener has been a lingering injury issue for him this year.
That’s a very good point…I never thought about that.
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
#HireSpags
Interesting.
He would not have had much protection here at the beginning of the season either. The O-line was terrible then. One way or another he would have had his brains scrambled. Unless he is now a drooling moron because the best of his brains ran out of his nose after his concussion I would be very happy seeing him back here in a back-up or third man role. He did just fine with our system.
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DRC will most likely be our starting LCB.
Samuel will be traded for preferably a veteran LB and maybe a 4th or 5th rounder.
by Almightypudster on Jan 11, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
the concussion he suffered against the packers at the hands of Clay Matthews in the 2010 opener has been a lingering injury issue for him this year.
in a vick-less world, kolb would have had two full seasons (disregarding injuries) by now and would likely be considered a viable franchise qb, rather than someone who might get cut.
But Kolb’s career is not baring injuries. The concussion you cited happened regardless of Vick’s presence on the team. If it is a lingering issue in this world, it would be a lingering issue in a Vick-less world.
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what i mean is that in theory, kolb would have had 2 full seasons as the eagles starter. the eagles have a better o-line than the cardinals and they have better QB coaches as well. certainly, kolb would have been likely to miss some time due to injury playing behind our o-line as well, but the perception of him as a franchise QB would be greatly legitimized if he had stayed in philly.
by Nathan Mandel on Jan 11, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I am not so sure of that. His numbers in AZ are similar to what he put up here as a backup. We just always hoped that his flashes of being very good would turn out to be more consistent once he was a full time starter.
As it turns out….being a full time starter didnt help, and Kolb is a perrenial backup like i had suspected.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
We've seen this before
With AJ Feeley. I think Kolb has far more potential than Feeley had, though. I’d love to see him come back to Philly.
I also think it’s very possible we would have won the Seattle game if we has Kolb instead of VY.
but that the Seahawks should stick with Jackson for another year.
Lolwut?
So they can go 8-8 and miss the playoffs? Why wait?
I haven't died. Right now I'm drinking a beer and eating fried chicken. What were you expecting, a funeral?- Yao Ming
Okay, first of all, the Cards have perhaps the worst line in the league, it’s primarily their fault. I will say after being in the league for 5 years, it’s crazy that no one really know how good or bad Kolb is. I still think he’s too good to be a backup but not good enough to be a starter. I see him taking a similar career path to Alex Smith. He needs a run game, a good O-line, and a good D. I don’t think I’ve ever said it on this blog, but from day 1, I never had faith in Kolb to be a star player…he just doesn’t seem to have…IT
Another thing…I’m sick and tired of the Matt Flynn talk. He put up gigantic numbers with an amazing cast against one of the worst pass D’s in the league (lions). Just because he plays for the Packers, everyone thinks he’s amazing. I really think he’s gonna be Matt Cassell 2.0. Before that game he has marginal stats. Also, in the games I’ve seen him play, he has bad technique and mechanics, an average arm, he stares down recievers, and he takes holds on to the ball more than he should. I really don’t see the fascination with him and his small sample size of data
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
#HireSpags
I would be most concerned about Kolb’s concussion history. A somewhat major one this past season, and another the season before that. As far as his ability to be a starter, I say he can be. Give him a full off season of reps, film, and time with his coaches and I think he will be able to be a starter. I mean, he can’t be much worse than mark sanchez, and that guy is entrenched in his job as a starter. He might not have the tools to be one of the top 5 ‘elite’ QB’s in the league, but he can be a more than serviceable starter, or a damn good backup, given he stays healthy.
When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time.
The Cardinals should draft Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford to protect Kolb.
Kolb is a good QB he did not have any protection this year so he could not stay healthy. I think not having an entire offseason as the Cardinals starting QB hurt him. Kolb would have been a better backup then VY for sure.
I don’t think Arizona will cut him and they should not cut him.
by Almightypudster on Jan 11, 2012 12:14 PM EST reply actions
most likely they won't cut him
i think most of us can agree that would be foolish after what they gave up for him and only seeing him play 9 games.
i remember before the 2010 season buying football cards of kolb, desean, and maclin to celebrate the new era of the young offense growing together. kolb had potential to be at least as good as matt schaub has been for the texans (he even has his own andre johnson in larry fitzgerald now), but he’s taken so many steps back now its hard to imagine him performing at that level. still, with a full offseason to study and heal, kolb should be considerably better in 2012.
by Nathan Mandel on Jan 11, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
The Eagles so far have definitely won the trade
But I don’t think it can be considered a bad decision by the cards because it would have been impossible to go into the season with what they had last year.
by TommykUD on Jan 11, 2012 12:26 PM EST via Android app reply actions
umm maybe im just an ass but
Nanny nanny foo foo, we screwed you!!!!! :P and yes I just used an emotocon. Seriously I like Kolb but I like the eagles getting better more. Thanks az.
by VRFC8 on Jan 11, 2012 12:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If the Cards are really leaning towards releasing Kolb after just 1 year, wouldn’t it make sense for them to at least attempt to restructure his contract and meet somewhere in the middle? Kolb, with his concussion history, certainly knows that if he gets released, the deals he gets offered will be short-term and probably not much above the veteran minimum. And after investing so much, I am sure the Cardinals wouldn’t mind giving a healthy Kolb another chance to prove what he can do, albeit for a more reasonable price.
Kolb would have been a better backup
I am not sure the Eagles would have had an additional win with him playing in place of Young. Assuming the NYG game was a win, Kolb would not have helped the Eagles against Brady and NE. That leaves SEA.
Jackson had his beast game of the season against the Eagles. VY’s turnovers hurt, but we cannot assume Kolb would have turned each turnover into a scoring drive. The best assumption one can safely make is the turnovers turned into throwaways. In that case, the SEA game turns into a close, slow grinder. We are all sitting at home hoping Shady hits a big one to break game wide open.
The views expressed by this comment belong to they who wrote them, heretofore referred to as "comment maker."
The views do not reflect the official views of the comment makers employer.
The views do not reflect the official views of the organization through which the Internet was accessed by the comment maker.
Kolb definitely would have been a better backup.
I’m very confident of that. But trading him was still the right move.
And I still think he is a viable starter in the NFL. Unfortunately, now with his concussion problems, he needs a stout offensive line to protect him and he still won’t have that in Arizona.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Kevin Kolb was, is and always will be a career back up QB in the NFL.
The Cards got fleeced and I won’t be the least bit surprised if they do cut bait on him shortly.
Kolb would have been a better back up for the birds in the 2011 season than VY though.
That counts for something.
I don't doubt we would've had one more win
Keep in mind that Kafka came in to the game twice very early on in the season against ATL and NYG. Both of the games the Eagles were leading when he entered the game. Kolb had the best grasp of the Eagles offense of any of the QB’s and would’ve given the team a much better chance to win.
Add that to VY’s performances against NE/SEA and there is no doubt in my mind we win one more game.
I’d love to have Kolb back as our backup, but I would be floored if the Cards cut him prior to the season. No way they can afford to just eat that loss so quickly. I think he can be a viable starter in this league, he just needs to be put in the right offense. Somebody mentioned Alex Smith, I totally agree.
One of my friends told me that he would rather have Mark Sanchez as his starting QB than kolb and that just baffled me. I think that kolb has way more potential than Sanchez. Way way more. Look at the weapons that Sanchez has. Holmes, burress, Keller, and tomlinson are all legit options as pass catchers. Sure, kolb has fitzy, doucet, and heap but Fitzgerald is double covered 75% of the time and the other two are not near the caliber of Keller and burress. I think kolb will be able to do more with less as opposed to Sanchez who does less with more.
by Straight Cash Homie on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
NYJ O-line >>> ARZ O-line
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As bad as vince was
Our wr’s were handing ( literally ) the ball to the sea chickens. So I don’t know if kolb could have fixed that problem without pine tar.
As for DRC, it remains to be seen if he is the probowler that we traded for, or the jogger trying to look like Richard Simmons from “sweating to oldies”.
by Saidrick on Jan 11, 2012 1:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Kevin Kolb again, eh?
Do you think that Kolb can become a decent starting QB still?
That would assume he ever had the capability to be a decent starting QB. Which he didn’t. As for a backup…
Also, would Kevin Kolb have done a better job than Vince Young as the Eagles backup this year?
Likely so. Kolb isn’t a bad backup quarterback, but considering him a starter-caliber quarterback is crazy.
Wow! we are reaching with this discussion!
This reminds me of the saying, “if my uncle had tits he’d be my aunt.” If we had Kolb as our backup instead of Young maybe we will all three games? Maybe we lose all three, who knows. We wouldn’t have had Young to make the dream team comment and without the media pressure the team goes 16 and 0! Why is this article even posted on BGN?? He is gone and he sucks and always has, Young sucks too. All of the eagles that fell in love with him two years ago really need to let it go, move on! I know your heart was broken there are plenty of fish in the sea. I’d rather have Tebow as a backup, are you kidding me saying you would love to have him back??? I’d rather take a shot at an unknown rookie or even, and yes I’m gonna say it, Donovan Mcnabb! I think even the biggest haters could at least root for him in a back up capacity. Just to let you all know too, last years qb ratings, Kolb 81.1, McNabb 82.9. Even as bad as he was he was more efficient that Kolb who also had 8 fumbles. Oh yeah I forgot, but Kolb could be amazing with a better o line, last time I check Arizona was alot better than Minnesota last year. I’m not trying to advocate bringing McNabb back next season, I’m just trying to say the thought of getting Kolb is ridiculous!
obvious...
Kolb was 100 times better than Vince Young as the backup and in a lot of ways he had better games than Vick as the eagles starter last year. He beat both the Falcons AND the 49ers last year and this was after his concussion. I think Kolb is without a doubt a starting QB in this league and I hope he comes back to the Eagles as a backup. Now that Vick has come back down to Earth and the realization that hes really NOT a top 5 QB in this league, I think most would feel comfortable with Vick or Kolb running this offense. If hes available I think the Eagles should make every attempt to bring him back.
When did the great Jo Thiessman offer this expert analysis?
Oct 17,2010? After Kolb played a very good game and dismantled the Falcons D?
Maybe not.
I have a sneaking suspicion that big Joe is taking the easy way out again, for the ~400,00th time in his much less than illustrious career. But, hey, as long as he can still get it up enough to bang a meat locker-faced hooker and pay a mere $100, well then you go Jo, show the world how great you are.
Kolbs suckiness was masked behind an incredibly talented group of Eagles weapons….
He sucks.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions
What weapons?
after this year, I think it’s pretty clear that our “weapons” were over rated. When was the last time an Eagles receiver made a play out of nothing, fought a ball away from a defenders, made a tow-tapping touchdown grab, held on tight in traffic while taking a good shot, etc…? They work well in this system and when they get the ball on a line in space, they can make some punt-return plays but they are not elite by any stretch.
First and foremost….Lesean McCoy.
But even past that, your point of our recievers being over rated pertains to 2011, not 2010. Kolb clearly benefited from having so many weapons at his disposal. He didnt need to be great…he just needed to be service-able. And he was. But the offense still put up gaudy numbers, and the QB will be championed from that.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
Our receiving core is sooo overrated its ridiculous. Maclin and Jackson are not as good as I thought and neither is avant. Celek was the only bright thing receiving wise this year.
by Bleeding_Green_Eagle on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Did you read what I wrote?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 9:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kevin Kolb is not Drew Brees
and he never will be. But You don’t get Drew Brees for a second round pick and a pretty good corner. When I look around at QB play on winning teams right now, to think that anyone can be unhappy with a QB capable of a (22-37 274 yards, 2TD 1 INT) stat line on a pretty regular basis is beyond me. Kevin Kolb is exactly what we all knew he was. He is a “Good” Quarterback in this league. Somewhere along the way, this was twisted into “Kevin Kolb can be the next Tom Brady”. All unfair to the Eagles, Cardinals and Kevin Kolb.
I dont think anyone every called him the next Tom Brady. But i dont think they expected him to suck like he did this year either. He threw only 9 TDs, 8int’s and had another 7 fumbles. He completed less than 60% of his passes.
He only played in 9 games this year. And in those games was responsible for 15 turnovers between his INT’s and Fumbles. That is pretty close to the definition of suck.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
As much as I hate to say I told you so
I TOLD YOU SO!
Hard.
I guess the glory that was the Philadelphia Eagles off-season counter-acts the dump that was the Flyers. Hmph.
yea. i have been in your boat from the beginning.
Or maybe its my boat. Who knows. Who cares!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Glad to be in the same boat.
Personally, I still think DRC is a fine corner as well, and will strongly benefit from moving to the outside. Not sure if that’s the majority boat either.
I guess the glory that was the Philadelphia Eagles off-season counter-acts the dump that was the Flyers. Hmph.
Cardinals allowed 54 sacks (2nd worst in the league) and 86 QB hits (6th worst in the league). Of course Kolb didn’t do all that well, any QB would get killed behind that offensive line. If the Cardinals can fix that line, then Kolb will be able to have success in Arizona.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"
agreed
Kolb with a good O line would be great. Argue all you want, he was just as good as Vick last year as a starter. (smaller sample size though) —and in 2 years he will probably be better than Vick because Vicks speed wont be there.
actually there is a better chance that Kolb won’t even be in the league it two more years because he is such an aweful qb that no one will sign him, some how Skelton had more success behind that same o line Kolb had, Kolb went 2 and 6, Skelton went 6 and 2. Where does your love for this guy come from???
I hope that's a joke.
QB sacks are not a statistic to be held solely on the O-line. If you would have watched the Cardinals this year, or seen Kolb much over the course of his career, it’s easy to see that he can hold on to the ball for far too long, and has a tendency when feeling pressure to panic and backpedal into a sack. I think if you’d compare the sacks per game of Kolb v Skelton there would be a dramatic difference.
Kolb has not showed any signs of being “great” and it’s unfair to say that he will be. A 2nd year 5th round pick drastically out-performed him on the same team. There is actually already a “trade for Peyton Manning” campaign here in AZ already going on. Kolb has not shown promise, and if you’d like to argue that he does back it up with something, and I’d say that you’d be hard pressed to find that “something”.
I guess the glory that was the Philadelphia Eagles off-season counter-acts the dump that was the Flyers. Hmph.
If the Seahawks really think that Quarterback is the main issue with their team, then they should go ahead and get Flynn. He’s probably learned a lot from backing up Rodgers and he looked pretty good when he was at LSU. Besides, like everyone else said, Kevin Kolb didn’t have much of a chance behind that Arizona line.
"I once had a friend named Charlie, and Charlie was always late to school
He had a black eye one day, but he wouldn’t say just what happened to him
Charlie got mad in class one day, and stood up with a .22 pistol
Told everybody that he couldn’t take it anymore, he was over being the victim"
Theismann is an idiot
I guess LT broke his brain too. Kolb doesnt have system that fits his skills. Whisenhunt refused to change the scheme, Kolb would actually do well in a system like Clevelands or Seattles…oh well.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
Kolb sucks. Square peg, square hole and he still sucks.
Stats didn’t change from eagles to cards. He is what he is….
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 11, 2012 9:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
GIB dude...
He doesn’t suck. I’d take him over anyone Kansas City, Seattle, Minnesota, Miami, Jacksonville, or Washington has…oh okay, I see your point.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
He may well be the 27th-32nd best starting QB in the league. But that doesnt do a team that wants to compete now much good. In fact, i am sure that each of the teams that have their QB rated 25th or worse are looking around…
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 13, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
If a network ever hired Theisman as an analyst...
I would have considered them reaching a whole lot more.
VOID!!!
I love to say I told you so
Kolb IS WAS and ALWAYS WILL BE GARBAGE. He makes poor decisions, is afraid of the rush, and has a noodle for an arm. That dude way up at the top of this thread talking about 2 years starting in the system AFTER the consussion but he was having problems with the SAME CONCUSSION in AZ?? COM’ON SON! That makes no sense whatsoever. The same concussion that had him screwed up in AZ would have had him screwed had he stayed.
I don’t get why you people want to crown this dude better than VY even. Hell VY’s win % for last season is just about the same as Kolb’s and they both were in a new system with a short offseason HMMMMMMMM! I take VY over Kolb every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I would rather have Jackson, Campbell, Freeman, Sanchez, and Russell than have Kolb. I said it before and I will say it again….YOU DON’T DRAFT UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON QB’S TO PLAY QB IN THE NFL.
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would rather have dead Michael Jackson as our starting QB than Vince Young. KK might not be an optimal choice, but he would certainly be an upgrade.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
The operative IQ of a group is no higher than that of it's lowest scoring member.
I reserve the right to hold other posters to a higher standard than I myself maintain. Why? Because I am an unrpentent lout. Deal with it.
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