History Shows Michael Vick's Spike In Accuracy Likely Not A Fluke
by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 11:13 AM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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No one would say that if Michael Vick continues to play like he did last year that he is not worth the 6-year, $100 million deal he just signed. In fact, if he continues to play at or near that level for most of this contract, he'll probably end up being a bit of bargain. However, the one criticism made of the deal was that last year might have been a fluke. It is true that Vick's numbers were dramatically different than they were the rest of his career, so without context I suppose it makes sense for someone to claim it could be an outlier.
However, a quick look at history shows us that's not likely to be true. The one stat that defined the change in Vick's game last year was his completion percentage. He displayed a level of accuracy that he simply never had before. His previous season high as far as completion percentage was 56.4%, while last year it was 62.6%. That is the sixth biggest increase over a previous season's best completion percentage since the merger, with the others being Steve Bartkowski, Jim Hart, David Carr, Archie Manning & Jim Plunkett.
Here's the encouraging thing about what those guys did after their "outlier" season. As ESPN's Chris Sprow found, not only is Vick's increase in accuracy no sign that he will regress, it's more likely that he will improve even further.
Every guy on the list outside of Carr went on to be even more accurate than before. After his breakthrough year, Bartkowski jumped another four percentage points a year later; Plunkett became notably more accurate; and a look at Vick's game logs shows he was consistently more accurate last year -- his highest completion percentage was 71.4. There was no 22-of-24 effort that totally skews the data.
Vick told ESPN that magazine that the scheme is more to thank for his increase than anything.
"It's not me, it's the scheme. In the NFL, schemes make great quarterback. I love Atlanta, but I wish now I would have been drafted by the Eagles."
Given how well every QB seems to play in this system and how a guy like McNabb regressed when he left (he had his lowest completion % in four years last year), there's probably a lot of truth to what Vick says here and would make it even less likely that he would be a due for a regression next year. As shown above, history suggests we haven't even seen the best of Vick yet...
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If we haven't seen the
best of Vick yet we are going to be in for a great show in the coming years then.
I am excited to see if this plays out the way described above.
not to be a dick ... but,
if we cant keep him healthy, the numbers and history arent going to mean shit.
and no, no one pissed im my cherrios. Seriously, he is likely to be injured again if they cant secure this O-line.
Nope... just a fact.
Maybe Kafka can be trade bait though.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
my dad is a big falcons fan
He told me steve bartkowski could throw the ball from endzone to endzone, and everyone used to call it the “bartkowski bomb”, anyone know if this is true, or is he pulling my leg
by con-vick on Aug 30, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Might be referring to the '80 Falcons Vs Cowboys NFC playoffs game.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Culpepper in the Citrus bowl here in Orlando would stand on the 10 yard line then throw across the field and hit the seats
on the other side (most know from the Gatorade commercial) I got to see it about 5-6 times.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
More along this vein
here. Showing that in general, quarterbacks don’t really decline in ability as they age. The only real threat to Vick not having a great career as an Eagle is injury, which would be just as likely if he were 25 as 31.
Injury is certainly a concern, but his age right now is not. If he can stay healthy, he will likely be just as good at the end of this contract as he is now.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
I can’t wait for Walter Football’s reaction to this contract
by The Pied Piper on Aug 30, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
I'm a Colts Fan
But I wrote an article about him at Stampede Blue here on SBNation…
I personally think this is a mistake on the part of the Eagles. The guy has never proven himself in any capacity, and to put it bluntly, the guy who replaced Vick in Atlanta (Matt Ryan), had a better rookie year as a QB for that very team, than Vick has ever had as a starting QB in the league.
Sure, Vick has a lot of tangibles and ability, but I don’t care how fast he is with his feet if he’s only throwing for 3000 yards a year…
Matt Ryan is overrated.
I’m tired of hearing how clutched the Falcons are.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
You missed the point
A rookie QB on a team should not outperform Michael Vick……ever. And that’s exactly my point. Vick’s best year as a QB was last year….and Ryan steps in as a rookie and outshines him…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Which stat are you cherry picking to prove this meaningless point?
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Notice how he doesn't reply to this.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Mike Malarkey
has only been there since 2008 its a diff system. So its almost like playing on two diff teams
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
I read your point.
It’s apple comparing to oranges. Everyone develops differently. Some people are late bloomers.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yea Vick
had a shit teasm in Atl when he got there and Ryan had some weapons already, Cant compare these 2 and we will see in a matter of 3 weeks what you think about Ryan then. Stay tuned
by DcEagles29 on Aug 30, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you comparing Ryans rookie year to Vick last year??
Comp. % – 61.1 for Ryan 62.6% for Vick
TDs vs INTs 16 – 11 for Ryan 21 – 6 for Vick
and mind you thats Vicks 12 games to Ryans 16
according to NFL.com
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty close
I’m also factoring in yardage too.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Rush Yards and TDs too..right?
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
"They just tried to do a criss-cross route or something. I just hid a little bit, saw the ball in the air and I do what I do - go get the ball."
-The President CB
Nnamdi, Asante, DRC; The Three Graces...charm, beauty, and creativity.
by immynimmy on Aug 30, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No that was passing.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
You mean Vick’s 12 game yardage to Ryan’s 16? And since when is 16-11 close to 21-6? That’s 1.5:1 vs over 3:1. Extrapolated to 30 TDs that’s 21 INTs for Ryan and 10 for Vick. Again, how is that close?
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 30, 2011 12:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
But apparently we're not paying for a running back!
:-/
That’s such a flawed argument that it actually hurts me in the heart
not including rushing TDS
Vick had another 9 TDs rushing !
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How is that close?
Are you reading the same numbers? And I really hope you aren’t factoring in total yardage because that would be a huge error on your part considering Ryan played 4 more games than Vick.
Vick's best year
Was last season in terms of QB Rating, completion percentage, and yardage. However, he’s played a full season before and never equaled any of those totals in the past. Would you rather I use lesser totals from a previous full season?
That’s why I have to use his last year’s totals to say “close”.
I realize he didn’t play a full 16 games, but that’s part of playing in the NFL.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah,
QB Rating, completion percentage, and yardage.
Why not count TD’s, TD to INT ratio and stuff like that?
Quit cherry picking, bring up a real case with facts and stats or get the fuck out.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Those 3 stats
are probably the 3 easiest to use of any.
Manning had a higher completion percentage, lower QB rating, and more yards… does that make Vick better or worse? Vick had fewer TDs, but fewer INTs….
Too many variables…. I took 3 easy stats, stats anyone could see and add up..
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
qb rating is a joke. im sorry but it is
its just been overhauled so other think so to
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
.......
than why use it?
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Because it's
one of only 3 area’s Matt Ryan actually was better than Vick.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Sorry but you're fucking stupid if you don't include TD's and INT's.
You cherry picked stats of your choosing, which support your crazy claim…
Look at the whole picture not just the private parts bro.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
You can't use total yardage for a partial season.
That’s asinine. I understand you can only use the numbers he produced, but use a stat that more accurately reflects his season. Comparing total yards when dealing with a shortened season for one player is willfully disingenuous. How about comparing their yards per game? Or yards per attempt? And you can’t simply leave out scoring and turnovers. Those are crucial statistics as well.
Then his comparison
would still be worse….
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
How do you figure that? Are we still talking Ryan’s rookie year versus Vick last year? Vick had 3800 yards total in 12 games. That’s 316 yards per game. Ryan had 3540 yards total in 16 games in 2008. That’s 222 yards per game. How does Vick come out worse in that comparison?
You said I can't use stats
from a partial season for the comparison. I said his comparison would be worse if I used a full season from his past. The problem in this case is that Vick’s best season was during an abbreviated year for him, so it’s either call it on that season, or go back to his best previous.
I could use partials like your suggesting, but that only favors Vick in the sense of I can’t accurately say whether he’d throw for 30 TDs or 30 INTs…..I already know what the other player has done.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say you can't use stats from a partial season, I said use them fairly.
Yardage does not have to be taken as a whole number as you continue to do for some reason.
You can break it down to a per game basis. On a per game basis Vick’s yardage from last year is tops in the whole league and easily tops Ryan’s rookie per game yardage.
How about, to be more than fair to all those other players, you take Vick’s worst single game from last season and replicate it to fill out his last 4 games? I’m interested to see this, so I’ll do it. In fact, I’ll make it even further skewed against Vick just to hedge the bet as much as possible:
His worst full game yardage wise was against Indy (218 yards). His worst full game INT wise was against Dallas (2 INTs). His TD average was 1.75 TD’s per game so I will round down to 1 TD per game. Sooo that would add 872 yards, 8 INT’s and 4 TD’s. I will pretend he doesn’t gain a single yard rushing in these games to further hedge bets. So, the final numbers would be 4,672 yards total, 34 TD’s, 14 INT’s.
That yardage puts Vick at #3 (accounting for the rushing totals of the other QB’s of course). His TD total would be at #2 (again, accounting for other QB’s rushing TD’s) and his INT total would be pretty much right in the middle. (By the way, if I added no TD’s for those last 4 games and factor in rushing TD’s for the other QB’s Vick still falls into the #6 range.)
Now, I think I was more than fair in fleshing out 4 more games for Vick and he still compared very, very favorably (Top 5 QB favorably).
by NOLACuse on Aug 30, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No problems there
but the injury is why he was out for 3 of those games, so you again have to factor that. He sat out another entirely. It would be no different than Manning sitting out Week 18 on a game that is meaningless, but it still counts against him…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fine that it counts against him I suppose.
I’m just more interested in how any QB played when he was actually on the field rather than using context-free stats to decide who had the better seasons. I don’t mind using total/annual numbers, but only if the time-frames are comparable. Otherwise I prefer to break the numbers down further.
I think it is you who are missing the point
Vick’s value is tied in with his playmaking ability and his quarterbacking skills. Ryan’s value is tied in with his quarterbacking skills.
As with most signal-callers in the NFL, there isn’t another element defenses have to account for. Vick is wholly unique in what he brings to a football game. You simply cannot put a price on the headaches his legs will give defenses.
It’s the exact same as DeSean Jackson. If you look strictly at the numbers to evaluate his play, you aren’t doing it right – defenses have to shade underneath and over the top consistently with him, which opens up other parts of the offense. It’s basic football.
by cwel87 on Aug 30, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good Point
Think of how many games Vick won for us last year, almost by himself? The two Giants game. Almost the GB opener. Probably a couple of others.
And as Vick said himself, he is in the best possible offensive system. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him have the greatest year ever as a QB. Obviously the whole injury argument is valid. Howard Mudd really needs to shore up that O-Line, ASAP.
And Vick Treally needs to improve on are timing routes. That’s his biggest weakness, IMO. I believe Steve Smith is going to be special for Vick as a great slant running receiver. Also having Shady and Ronnie out of the backfield for screen plays and dump offs will help, as witnessed in the Browns preseason game.
Vick never studied a day in his life in Atlanta
He was the last one in and first one out. Exact opposite in Philly. You can tell it by his quote about scheming. He’s motivated and much more mature than ever before.
He’s a different passing QB in a slightly less athletic body.
The Jruth shall be told.
by packimop on Aug 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Outshined him how? What'd Ryan do that was so great?
Ryan’s a less autistic Eli Manning.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
MATTY ICE BRO
who cares about playoffs?…….PLAYOFFS?!
by theaction on Aug 30, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’ve said nothing here.
“The guy has never proven himself in any capacity” is patently false.
And I don’t see how Matt Ryan is relevant at all. He didn’t step into the same team Michael Vick left at all. So it’s meaningless as well as being completely untrue.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook. Did you get your copy of the 2011 Eagles Annual yet?
by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Actually
It’s not patently false.
The guy has shown flashes and glimpses of greatness, but he’s NEVER followed a single good season with another quality year. Perhaps my wordage is off, but the intent is still valid. Vick has never shown the league 2 back to back seasons of above average play in his entire career.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
For one, this isn’t predictive of anything as the above article shows. So I don’t know what you think it proves.
Second, he has made back to back pro bowls.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook. Did you get your copy of the 2011 Eagles Annual yet?
by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelvick/2504531/careerstats
Please look at 2004, 2005, and 2006 …
then please stop making unsubstantiated statements that you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about! Troll.
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait
So 2500 yards passing a season is a great year? Those aren’t above average play….that’s not EVEN LEAGUE AVERAGE…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not all Vick adds as a quarterback
Those 1000 rushing yards have to be accounted for – and they are more valuable than passing yards, as it places an additional dimension defenses have to account for.
You’re evaluating his passing stats and his rushing stats in an isolated vacuum. You’re doing it wrong.
The problem
Is that your not paying for a RB. You’re paying for a QB. Vick’s ability to run is unrivaled in recent memory, perhaps as far back as Cunningham himself. The problem is that it has come back to bite him more than help him.
The fact is I want Vick to succeed. I want the guy to take that next step as a QB because he’s got all the talents.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You're paying for a player to sustain drives and get the ball in the endzone
The whole QB-RB argument is complete nonsense, and you know it.
It’s added so much more value to his play than it’s taken away – again, if you’re basing it off of injuries, you’re incorrect. It’s a fallacy most fall into – that Vick is injury prone – but the fact is he missed most of one season due to a preseason leg break, and his other seasons when he was the full-tie starter for at least 15 games were as follows: 15G, 15G, 15G, 16G, 12G (out of 15)
It’s a falsehood that has been served up to you by the media. And you’ve unfortunately swallowed it whole.
by cwel87 on Aug 30, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Every football player is injury prone.
Tom Brady was out for entire year. Damn, cwel87… you know how to roast peeps.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Tom Brady has missed more games to injury than Vick has.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook. Did you get your copy of the 2011 Eagles Annual yet?
by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
However, a broken leg is easier to overcome than a blown knee…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
So that be points to the Vick camp, no?
Since he hasn’t sustained any ligament damage, he’s more likely to keep up his running style later in his career than someone who has.
Agreed.
The one caveat is that Culpepper was much the same way as Vick, and one knee injury derailed Culpepper’s entire career.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I differentiate between injury prone players …
and players likely to be injured because of their style of play.
QBs that run are “prone” to get injured, but Vick is not “prone to injury.”
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
BUt that’s not true. Far more QBs get hurt in the pocket than they do running. In fact, almost all QB injuries happen in the pocket.
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by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think people view Vick as a bust.
because comments like these wouldn’t existed:
. I do have a problem with a second tier QB with durability issues coming off a career year getting Brady/Manning/Brees dollars
they might better have kept Kolb and let some other loser franchise overpay and be dragged down by him.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Bust? No.
But the first comment in your post I do agree with. Vick is still, by league standards, a second tier QB. His running ability boosts him higher of course than others, but it still keeps him outside the top 5, possibly 10 QB’s in the league in terms of production.
I think the guy could be the next Steve Young. He has the ability and the talent. I just hope he can show us all. I don’t mind eating my words when a guy can overcome his own problems.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
NFL, SI, and ESPN analysts disagree with your assessment
Vick is considered a blue-chip quarterback by all major media outlets.
Opinions vs. Stats
I’m basing my comments on stats, not opinion. I apologize if that was not made clear.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
(That's in 12 games, by the way)
Prorated to 16 games, it’s 4,750 total yards with 37 TD’s (rounded down), and 12 turnovers (rounded up).
Those are insane numbers.
Prorating
Is hilarious, it’s like guessing he’ll throw 400 yards one week instead of the anemic 150 he could throw…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Isnt that basically what you are doing though?
Saying these are his stats. And saying he wont play up to his contract so he isnt worth it?
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
No
I think he hasn’t proven he’s worth that kind of commitment. Last season, he took the first step. If he put up this kind of production again this year, absolutely sign the guy…
But one good year?
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So our option was to pay him the franchise money this year then re-evaluate next year? And potentially have to spend even MORE if he replicates 2010….right?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And to further what i just wrote…..you wanted to give him a GUARANTEED 16.2million this year. a ONE year deal. And then next year, negotiate a contract based on that? How about this….we just got him 5 additional years, for only 24mil more guaranteed…
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Haynesworth, JaWalrus Russell
Just saying…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are both pretty bad comparisons.
One is a rookie contract on the old system which isn’t comparable to FA contracts at all. The other is for a player that has proved his talent, but has huge character issues.
He was going to signed to a contract one way or the other. What do you think would have been the way to go about it?
Those stats by yardage
would place him 9th overall, still out of the top 5…for the 2010 season.
and by TD would have him placed in a tie for 5th
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
How are you figuring yardage?
I haven’t seen you say yet. Yards per game? Total yards? Yards per attempt? If you take Vick’s total yardage (3800) divided by 12 games you get 316 per game. That’s actually tops Rivers’ passing yards per game and I highly doubt Rivers’ 52 rushing yards puts him over the edge there. So how are you figuring yardage? I sincerely hope you aren’t dividing Vick’s numbers by 16 games… That would be incredibly disingenuous.
Simple
His total for the year if we add rushing is 3800. I just put him in the list based on 3800 total yards of offense….versus the top 10 passing totals…
That’s about as fair as I can get. I don’t see any point in going well he only played 12 games….so what…if he’s eligible for MVP voting, if he was able to play in the playoffs, well…he’s eligible to get included…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
The Eagles led the league in plays of longer than 20 yards if I recall correctly, while the top two passers in the league spent most of their season throwing to backups….so using yards per attempt would actually hurt them while helping Vick. By using Vick’s total yards vs. just their passing yards helps Vick but also doesn’t hurt the others
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How about figuring total yards for everyone and then looking at yards per game?
Why are you stuck on total yardage? I say again: you are being willfully disingenuous by doing so. It’s a valid stat and accounts for the games he missed while not discounting the other QB’s having stayed healthy. Hm? Why this boner for total yardage?
Yards per attempt does very much help Vick while potentially hurting the others, but yards per game does no such thing. I see no reason to go only on total yardage and punish Vick for shitty offensive line play.
No you are definitely basing it on opinion and not stats.
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but his opinion is fact
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Vick's definitely among the top 10 QBs in the NFL.
But close call on top 5, so if “second tier” means “top 5,” then fine.
More generally, I agree that Vick hasn’t proven anything yet; and he won’t until he starts racking up wins in the playoffs, which is how QBs are (and should be) judged. And, in the NFL, a QB’s skills as a passer are much, much more important than his skills as a runner. So I get the broad point.
But Vick had a very strong 2010 season; statistically, Vick’s performance in 2010 was simply not comparable to Matt Ryan’s, for example. And if Vick can adjust to (or the staff can scheme around) the “blitz to his left side” defense, he’s going to be a nightmare for opposing defenses.
Whether Vick can perform throughout the whole contract period has a lot to do with how much he’ll develop as a passer over the course of the next few years, because his running skills will decline with age. I think Vick is not very smart, which will make things difficult, but I would not bet against Andy Reid developing a QB. Time will tell. In any event, I’m sure there’s an exit strategy built into the out years under the contract.
This is true also.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
vick's leg was broken IN THE POCKET vs. the ravens in
preseason in ’03.
and he had an even shittier line in ATL for all of those 15 game seasons than he did here last year.
you are completely wrong on this.
running a lot leaves him susceptible to injury, but it hasn’t gotten him more injured than say, byron leftwich, or any of a number of strictly pocket passing QBs.
you’re killing your own argument.
Actually he was horse collared much like the T.O injury. I think he was scrambling to his right.
The Jruth shall be told.
yes. but it occurred in the pocket. pocket collapsed
and dude on the ravens collapsed his leg.
there was nothing ’vick’ish about that play. any qb flushed from the pocket like that and tackled that way would have had the same injury. that’s my point.
likewise, any qb standing tall in the pocket is at risk for what happened to carson palmer.
its part of the game. as long as he aint trying to truck linebackers, i’m good with him taking off and running if nothing’s open, as opposed to taking a sack or throwing it away.
“The problem is that it has come back to bite him more than help him.”
No it hasn’t. You just make one unsubstantiated claim after another…
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Wrong
By not staying in the pocket most of his career, he’s delayed his ability to read defensive schemes. Instead of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads, he’s dropping out of the pocket looking for the big play. He’s running forward for a first down.
All of those things I just mentioned are great abilities that I wish any QB could do. Even with the QB I have on my team, I wish he could do some of those things. The problem is that once he can’t just roll out on to the flat and beat a team, where is your team at?
Last season, Vick played the best football of his career. A blind man could tell you that. All I’m saying is I want to see another year of that.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No, by not studying defenses his entire career in Atlanta he’s delayed his ability to read coverages. Hence the poor completion percentage.
He comes to Philly and starts studying hard and TADAAAA – he’s a more accurate and smarter passer.
There’s no reason to believe he can’t sustain or improve on his accuracy, he’s actually learning now. He never did that in Atlanta.
The Jruth shall be told.
He did show improvement
And that’s a start, but it’s still lower than it could be. It’s also 6 pts better than his previous career best…which again, shows improvement.
Still, you have to be cautious about a guy who says he didn’t want to learn or didn’t want to put in the work to be a leader of a team. Sure, he’s saying all the right things now, but does that translate into a new work ethic? All we can do is take it one day at a time.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He went to prison and came out a humbled man. The evidence speaks for itself. He’s much more mature in his demeanor and who he surrounds himself with. He works in the film room day in and day out. He never did these things while in Atlanta before he went to prison.
If a QB like Mark Sanchez increased his passing percentage by 6 points in a single season everyone would love him and say he’s at a completely different level.
Vick has worked hard and it’s paid off – he’s at a completely different level as a passer and as a decision maker in the pocket.
The Jruth shall be told.
if you have a sorry teacher, studying doesn't matter.
he was on his way to being a very good QB in all phases under dan reeves.
jim mora comes in, and greg knapp is brought in as the OC, and all of that goes out the window.
its make 2 reads and run.
also, w/ respect to the 2,500 yds passing per year, it has to be mentioned that over the same period, the falcons led the league in rushing for 3yrs straight.
the OL coach hardly spent any time on pass protection in practice (alex gibbs, of denver, zone blocking, one cut fame), and it showed in games. but they relied on vick’s athleticism to bail them out.
by poetx on Aug 30, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even without Vick
The Falcons were a 1500 yard rushing team…so while Vick helped their running game, it wasn’t too shabby without him…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So?
Any production a quarterback adds that helps his team wins is positive production.
I don’t care if a team rushes for 3,000 yards – if Vick gives them another 600 yards rushing, that’s still additional yardage, no matter how you slice it.
I was actually agreeing with his point
In that they were a run first heavy team…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
umm. NO. would warrick dunn have been a #1 RB
and perennially among the league leaders on any other team than ATL? vick made their running game.
because of the constant fear of the bootleg (off the stretch fake to dunn), Defensive Ends and Tackles on the backside did NOT crash down, as they have been taught at all levels of football up to and including the pros. this opened up massive cutback lanes, which done masterfully exploited.
but minus vick, those lanes would not have been there, because those guys would have played regular technique.
in atl, teams admitted, regularly, that they would spend an entire day of film study when facing ATL .just. to prepare for facing vick. and they also said they didn’t do that for anyone else they faced. for a good OC, that is a HUGE advantage.
even taking away vick’s rushing yards you have to account for his positive impact on everyone else’s. the eagles (andy) don’t like to run the football. but look at shady’s numbers playing with vick.
also look at numbers across the board in ‘03 when he didn’t play b/c his leg was broken. massive difference.
they went from being a playoff team to a lottery team just based off of his absence.
For one, you’re not basing that on anything. Last year he certainly wasn’t forgetting his second and third reads.
If you are only talking about his Atlanta days, you’re working on 4 year old info. Not very compelling.
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Look what he did rushing.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Pro Bowls
Mean nothing, considering the state of the NFC QB’s over the last 10 years….
McNabb, Favre….and who else? Kurt Warner a few years…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You're fucking stupid.
Probowls mean something… You’re literally focusing on bullshit to try and prove this dumbass point.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
While I don't agree with this guy on most, I agree here.
Pro-Bowls are nothing more than popularity contests. Yea, most Pro-Bowlers are good, but lots of Pro-Bowl caliber guys get overlooked all the time.
Yes, exactly.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Moron
Pro Bowls mean nothing, as countless players have gotten a Pro Bowl nod because someone else didn’t want to play in the game.
There are countless players who got left out despite having stats to show otherwise….
Is it any coincidence that the teams with the most players in the Pro Bowl tend to always be the “Winning” or “most popular” teams every year?
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that mean the players who go aren’t good?
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Hey fuckface.
Probowls are given to guys who are the best at their position, those who played the best.
Some guys get in as alternates, do what you will with that.
But if you’re a 1st choice probowler then it fucking means something. Alternates are in the gray area.
So please shut the fuck up before you continue making a dumbass of yourself.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
well...
thing is, I don’t know how predictive the evidence for the article can be, the sample size is 5 and 20% of the sample shows the opposite trend. As an Eagle’s fan I’m hoping for Vick to be the greatest QB known to man, I just don’t know how much you can take from that article.
by Patrick Bateman on Aug 30, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, look at Matt Ryans Comp. % for his rookie season and his subsequent season.
He got worse, not better. Hes only been in NFL for 3 seasons.
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're entire thought process is off.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
by wild_eagle on Aug 30, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
“And I don’t see how Matt Ryan is relevant at all. He didn’t step into the same team Michael Vick left at all. So it’s meaningless as well as being completely untrue.”
I try to tell fellow falcon fans this all the time
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
he threw for 3,000 yards in 12 games, in 16 games he would be just over 4,000 yards for the whole season. tom brady threw for 3,900 yards in 16 games. About even on yardage plus the fact that Vick can run. i think it is a pretty good deal, and i think Vick will play more then 12 games this year.
by Rhayes on Aug 30, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Assumptions
You are making assumptions based on the fact that Vick would have played all 16 games. You forgot he missed I believe 3 games due to injury. The point is 3000 yards as a “career year” isn’t exactly something to write home and brag about
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Runner up in the MVP voting, starting in the pro bowl… 100 QB rating.
It’s something to write home and brag about.
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by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And
I for one applaud Vick’s season last year. I’m actually happy for the guy. I’d like to see him take the next step. I just don’t think the contract was worthwhile at this point.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Worthwhile from what perspective? If you don’t think he would have gotten that as a free agent, you’re nuts.
Fact is, he was in the last year of his deal and they had to get a deal done. So they paid far market price. Seems pretty simple to me.
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by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THEN....
SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY YOU TROLL.
Pull some more random meaningless stats out of your asshole.
by It's_my_VICK_in_a_box! on Aug 30, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's the reason why you're a fucking idiot.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Look at 2009 when Ryan only had 2900 yrds passing in his 14 games.
somehow thats better than Vicks 3000 yrds passing in 12 games!!
Douche Bag!
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The name calling isn't exactly necessary
Your points are valid, but you’re not making it any easier for him to accept when you call him names.
I understand the defensive nature of such a discussion, but it only weakens one’s stance when the individual gets overly defensive.
by cwel87 on Aug 30, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Name calling?
Really? Are you that cheap? I’ve got a different opinion than you but that’s kind of pathetic you need to name call.
I never said Ryan was a better QB. The point was and still is that Vick has never yet taken the next step to become a great QB. He’s produced marginal numbers as a QB.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
My God you're annoying!
How many times do you need to be corrected before you go away!!
by Balboafan1 on Aug 30, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never said Ryan was a better QB.
Vick’s best year as a QB was last year….and Ryan steps in as a rookie and outshines him…
How many more steps do you want him to take? The man has pulled a complete 180 degree turn on his life!
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Green party!
Don’t feed the troll!
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The 'as a QB' caveat is what concerns me with your analysis.
He does other things too – things most QB’s can’t come close to mirroring.
That’s a significant portion of his value, and rightfully so. Add it with the 62% completion rate, the 3,000 yards in 12 games, and the 4-1 TD-INT ratio, and you have a risk worth taking.
by cwel87 on Aug 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
plus ...
how many players came running to the falcons because they wanted to play with Ryan. None. Thats how many.
by thePurpleLion on Aug 30, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re saying he’s going to regress.
Dude never studied a day in his life in Atlanta. Completely different story since he came to Philadelphia. He values what he has now and is trying hard to improve. First one in last one out in Philly, last one in and first one out in Atlants.
These are facts.
The Jruth shall be told.
by packimop on Aug 30, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually.
What’s pathetic is that after being constantly called out and disproven successfully, you are still here…….
by It's_my_VICK_in_a_box! on Aug 30, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey dumbass.
Ryan’s rookie year doesn’t hold shit on what Vick did last year. Get the fuck out of here, go back to the Colts blog and send the cooler guys back over here.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
by wild_eagle on Aug 30, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't say it better.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry about our qb
Worry about that broken robot yall got over there
by Mrrc7 on Aug 30, 2011 1:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Credit where credit is due
Andy Reid made Vick into a better QB than he was at any point in his career before.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
Don't forget Marty and Mcnabb.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
This should clear up the Ryan v Vick debate
Ryan’s rb is michael turner. Falcons Vick had warrick Dunn . Ryan has roddy white and Tony Gonzalez . Vick had Jenkins ( I think) and a scrub tight end . To give you some perspective on what this means : look at Steve young on the buc’s versus Steve young on the niners.
by Saidrick on Aug 30, 2011 12:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
One year wonder
Except for ’06, very average career.
by Saidrick on Aug 30, 2011 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Vick also had Roddy White.
Vick didn’t have the kind of talent he has now, but he had enough talent at WR to succeed in Atlanta. Peerless Price was a good WR back in 2003-04 (had a 94/1200 year in Buffalo in 2002), and Roddy White has been with Atlanta since 2005. Vick’s inabilitiy to understand the pass game marginalized Atlanta’s WRs. Price had a much stronger 2003 than 2004 primarily because Doug Johnson got most of the QB snaps. White went from 30 catches in 2006 to 80+ in 2007 — when freaking Joey Harrington took over at QB — and never turned back.
Vick had a better 2010 than Ryan, and I expect Vick to have a better 2011 than Ryan. But Vick dramatically underperformed his contract in Atlanta, notwithstanding some great individual highlight plays on near-.500 teams.
by DblHoo on Aug 30, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Coach Killer"
Was the right term for Vick in Atlanta. All the talent in the world, and a huge player-specific fan base with real expectations for success, but no work ethic, and so no real shot at success. But Vick’s such a better athlete than anyone else to have ever played this game (yes, I mean that) that, despite zero work ethic, he could do just enough to keep you thinking the team could turn the corner. And so the masses said that Vick had no talent — that Peerless Price was a bum, that Roddy White was a bust of a draft pick, etc. And, of course, the masses were wrong. Vick was the limitation on the team.
I don’t think that makes the current contract unreasonable. The only question here is work ethic. Given Reid’s track record with the QB position and the public statements by Vick on this topic (and my bias as an Eagles fan…), I think it’s logical to expect that has changed.
The argument has never been how Vick performed while he was in Atlanta
In fact, Vick himself attacked that dead-on by stating that he didn’t put any effort into bettering himself when he was with the Falcons.
It’s about how he will perform in relation to the contract he just signed with the Eagles. I don’t think it’s a stretch to believe he’ll continue to develop as a quarterback.
But Vick dramatically underperformed his contract in Atlanta, notwithstanding some great individual highlight plays on near-.500 teams.
I don’t think anyone is arguing against that point. Everyone knows that’s the truth.
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
"They just tried to do a criss-cross route or something. I just hid a little bit, saw the ball in the air and I do what I do - go get the ball."
-The President CB
Nnamdi, Asante, DRC; The Three Graces...charm, beauty, and creativity.
He had Roddy when he wasn’t present day Roddy. He had Peerless Price on his back end.
The Jruth shall be told.
"present day Roddy"?
When did present day Roddy become present day Roddy? He was a 30-catch player for 2 years with Vick there, Vick gets arrested before the 2007 season, and then Roddy finishes with 80-90 catches in each of 2007-09. Obviously a huge 2010 season, but Roddy’s had pro-bowl caliber stats ever since he wasn’t playing with Vick, and despite having Harrington/Redman as his QBs on that 2007 team where Petrino gave up and left.
So I get arguing that Peerless was at the end of his career or Lelie was a bust or whatever. But the constant in Atlanta was Vick not getting the ball to his WRs. And it wasn’t for lack of talent on paper at WR; Peerless and Lelie were bigtime FA pickups; Jenkins and White were first round draft picks; Dunn was an accomplished receiver out of the backfield (contrast with Turner, who’s not much of a receiver); and plenty of people argued Crumpler was the best receiving TE in the NFL while Vick was there.
Ashley Lelie was never, at any point in his career, a big-time FA pickup
It’s also commonplace to note that most receivers take a huge step in their third year of professional football. Coincidentally, that year you keep referencing with Roddy White was his…yup, third season in the NFL.
At no point did anyone say that old Vick is someone we’d be happy with the Eagles signing to a 6y/$100M deal. But this simply isn’t the old Vick we’re dealing with in Philadelphia.
Yeah Ashley Lelie was never a bigtime FA pickup.
And speaking of the great Atlanta WRs under VIck, wasn’t Brian Finneran a starter there?
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You'd have to explain the drops Roddy had when he was playing with Vick
Believe it or not there was a big debate about why WRs were dropping balls…..and it wasn’t because Vick was trying to throw the ball through the receiver either.
Then you’d have to explain why Roddy was the only guy making plays in 2007.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
roddy blossomed under hue jackson and paul petrino, when he was finally taught
how to be a WR and put in a pro offense. before that he played in greg knapp’s effed up version of the WCO and he was taught by receivers’ coach george stewart, who was a former OLinemen. roddy and michael jenkins could block their asses off but not catch or run routes for shit.
roddy’s breakout year came after vick left but before ryan. his QB’s? chris redman, byron leftwich (an injured leftwich), and joey freaking harrington. and dude showed out. because he was finally, you know, taught to play the position.
even in that effed up offense under mora and knapp, roddy dropped mad passes, including on MNF, a ball that vick ran away from several defenders and threw to a roddy who was so open he could have fair caught it for a touchdown. and he dropped that.
that was the highlight where they showed mora drop to his knees on the sidelines like ‘i can’t f*cking believe this!!!’
vick had games that year where he had multiple TD’s dropped, let alone regular passes.
the receiving corps there was ass. and THEY were >>>>>>>>>>>> dez white and manypeers price.
the ONLY receiving corps that’s ever been worse starters in the nfl was none other than todd pinkston and james thrash (the Dredd Scott duo, i called them — no db was bound to respect them).
outside of crumpler, vick’s most reliable receiver during those ATL years? brian finneran… who was CUT from the eagles… who were in the midst of andy’s refusal to get any non crappy WRs. so there you go.
let’s here some more about his weapons.
Honestly, this is an article similar to KC Joyner (in theory, not context, proof, evidence, etc.). This is all based off history, that’s not really something yuo can use as a variable to prove Vick will play better (or worse). I guess that’s why the title specifically says “history shows…” though.
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
"They just tried to do a criss-cross route or something. I just hid a little bit, saw the ball in the air and I do what I do - go get the ball."
-The President CB
Nnamdi, Asante, DRC; The Three Graces...charm, beauty, and creativity.
by immynimmy on Aug 30, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well I think it shows that spikes in accuracy have generally not been flukes. So if it proves anything, it’s that there is another variable not shown in stats that seems to have a dramatic effect on accuracy and completion percentage. Vick says it’s scheme. I certainly think he’s right, but having better talent around you helps as well.
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by JasonB on Aug 30, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point. I think the surrounding talent and history is a more valid argument than people saying “last year was a fluke” without any evidence. Come to think of it, I don’t really know what people are basing that off of?
The leading arguments seem to be…luck.
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
"They just tried to do a criss-cross route or something. I just hid a little bit, saw the ball in the air and I do what I do - go get the ball."
-The President CB
Nnamdi, Asante, DRC; The Three Graces...charm, beauty, and creativity.
Devils Reject
I love how one person can single handedly alter our discussions.
by theaction on Aug 30, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Another thread going nowhere...thanks Troll
This feels like the offseason all over again…
Whats going on here…..
This season has to take off ASAP
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Aug 30, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
couldn't agree more
but I got teh lulz
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 30, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Better to have trolls in the preseason
than to have trolls during the regular season game threads…
I'll Have a Samuel Jackson. It'll get ya drunk. Mmm-mmm b***h.
i've been saying this for YEARS. if you look at game logs of his days in ATL
what you’d find, under the knapp years (mora’s deficient offensive coordinator) is a lot of games where he started out 8/10, 7/9, 11/12 in the first half. and then finished up 3/10 or something in the second half to lower his completion percentage to something very mediocre.
what was happening is that the falcons generally could come up with a good opening script. (more WCO stuff). but no half time adjustments, and terrible playcalling in the 2nd half after the defense had taken away what was successful in the first.
also, he had really really bad WRs. alge crumpler was his most reliable receiver, and he made crump a perennial pro-bowl TE DESPITE the fact that he was doubled and even tripled on most plays. (doubled because none of the outside receivers warranted more than single coverage. tripled because most teams employed at least one spy in the middle of the field and dumbass greg knapp’s routes would have crumpler generally running 12yd curls or stick routes — you guessed it, in the middle of the field, where the OLB and S who already had bracket coverage on crumpler were joined by the MLB who’s spy position placed him right underneath the middle curl zone).
the route designs were horrible. very very typical to have ‘all curls’, but with WRs who you did not have to respect on deep routes, and who telegraphed their breaks by raising up 5 yds prior to cut. CBs squatted on them ALL DAY. and they could not catch outside of their body. to complete the pass, vick would have to throw away from the shoulder where the defender was. w/ his velocity and with their hands, that generally equalled drop or incompletion.
also, there were a lot of max protect, 2 man routes and half field reads. again. you could take away the playside WR with single coverage. double the TE. single/ignore the backside WR. and the back was usually held in to block.
another thing working against vick was his lack of dumpoffs. teams mush rushed him b/c they did not have to worry about downfield threats. that’s why ATL sucked as a screen team. lot easier to have high completion percentage when you have the option to throw the ball 5 yds in the air to an RB. they rarely did that.
so what you had was largely play action, mid range to deep throws. and sub 60% completions as the norm.
That's an interesting POV
However, I’d still say Vick played on a better team than guys in Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, or even Buffalo…
Vick 2001 to 2004 – 43 games played (first 4 years of his career)
512 completions, 955 attempts, 72.9% QB rating, 51.4% completion , 6619 yards, 36 TDs, 26 INTs, 109 sacks
2223 yards rushing, 13 rushing TDs, 35 fumbles, 19 fumbles lost
Joey Harrington – 2002 to 2005 – 58 games played (first 4 years of his career)
986 completions, 1802 attempts, 68.3% QB rating, 54.7% completion, 10242 yards, 60 TDs, 61 INTs, 77 sacks
Roughly 300 yards rushing, 0 rushing TDs, 21 fumbles, 8 fumbles lost
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg Knapp was remarkably awful at his job
Some Madden nerds would have been more successful with the play-calling than he was.
To that, I would buy you a beer
because I know 5 yr olds who could out call that guy..
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you buy the 5 year old a beer too? :P
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
System, system, system. Vick fits perfectly into our system.
1. He’s got the big arm to get the ball way downfield to one of (if not THE) fastest WR’s in the NFL.
2. We (currently) have a fairly weak O-line, and Vick has the wheels to extend the play.
3. We’re a young team. And Vick brings in some veteran leadership.
4. And this is a point that hasnt yet been made. I do not think that Andy is the best at making in-game adjustments. Having Vick in there, Andy and Marty dont have to create a plan B mid-game. Vick can do it on his own with his legs. A few quick runs to the outside, and suddenly some of those passing lanes will start to open up again. Its not fool-proof, but having a guy like Vick can help get your opponent to adjust to HIM, as opposed to us adjusting to THEM. He just has the ability to make them change, instead of us having to change….
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and I think all of that works in favor of Mike continuing success here in Philly.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice
I like the ideas, Vick is definitely suited for the WC…ala Steve Young…
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. But more than just that…..having the wheels he has, and arm he has, i think is the perfect mix for our offense. We are built on extreme speed, and long vertical passes. We arent the typical WCO because of how often we go over the top.
Jackson can outrun defenses, and Vick has the arm to out-throw them. I think its a killer combo….
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick's going to light it up this year.
I can’t wait for that first Vick to Jackson bomb.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Yup….and can i tell you how excited i am that our VERY FAST team starts the year on the road, but in 2 domes?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
vick wasnt so accurate in his last couple games
i personally think hes gonna throw alot of picks and he wont repeat wat he did last year unless are line gets it together he wont be succesfull when vicks pressured he runs or throws inaccurate passes which usually results in picks
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 1:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
To be honest, he doesnt need to play as well as he did last year. If our D makes the improvement, then we’ll still be in better shape.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He was actually
His completion percentage for his final five games of the season?
66%
69%
61%
60%
58%
They were right in line with his season average of 62%
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook. Did you get your copy of the 2011 Eagles Annual yet?
People struggle to research on their own
And so they rely on the lazy ‘reporting’ and ‘analysis’ spewed forth by the ‘experts’ at E$PN.
It’s really sad.
agreeeeeeeed!!!!!!!!
that’s the cause of this… see directly underneath
Its a shame these forums have too many "cheerleaders" and people who get most of their LOL "football knowledge" from the talking heads in the media, and not from individual study. How I wish there were more people with actual football acumen that can forward the conversation and advance the sport...
lol. but that's not what they 'heard'. also, as sheil displayed over at philly.com,
he was actually much better than average against the blitz .
now, what he DID struggle with, was against all out secondary pressure, which very few teams did to him. the most famous example was the vikes. but he took lumps against the giants with that.
b/c teams blitzed the shit out of the backside of play action with DBs, and it wasn’t as easy to fake a free rusher that’s a DB as it was for him to routinely do with DE’s and DT’s. (b/c we damn sure had a LOT of free rushers last year).
andy and marty weren’t quick enough to put away some of those slow ass developing plays, they were max protecting, and sending 2 receivers 15-20 yards downfield with no hot option. and vikings had nothing to lose and sold out sending CBs and Safeties.
which is entirely different set of circumstances than folks who simplistically say ‘he couldn’t beat the blitz’, or, as you debunked, ‘he got worse down the stretch’.
true
i just seen to many flashes of the atlanta vick to be sold on the idea but yea with are d beastin he wont have to work so hard 2 play catch up
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 1:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well, if the o-line didnt suck.. I wouldn't be running for my life either.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
A point i made above, but believe it will be lost in “ReplyLand”
What options did the Eagles actually have on this?
If we kept him Franchise Tagged, then we would be paying him 16.2million this year. Fully guaranteed. IF he replicates, we’re right back at square one, having to negotiate a long term deal….
By giving it to him now, we’re only guaranteeing him 24mil more than the franchise tag required, and its over 5 additional years.
I just dont see how they couldnt do it this year, rather than coughing up all of that dough on the franchise tag, not having a long term deal done, trading away the other guy that was slated to be your “future” , and having to likely projects in the wings; Kafka and Young.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
"why arent people replying to me!" lol jk buddy
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
haha…no. Its more that i hate writing something long when its been indented all the way to the right. LOL.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I know im just picking
That comment thread was getting a little tooo stretched out
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
I hate when it gets indented so far. Pet peeve.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
the worst is when it stops indenting.
every line is one word. And my long ass sig takes up half the page….i need to shorten this
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Agreed. Do something about that. Stop being so worthless.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Flagged!
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
by Udalango on Aug 30, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ha. Rec!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
youngs a bum
i hope he never touches the ball in philly hes l maroney junior dont think i spelled that right
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 1:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I am going to save this comment of yours. The same type of thing (and much worse) was written when we signed Vick. Dont be naive enough to think that only Vick can dramitically improve under great coaching.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I said it then
that Philly was the best place Vick could have landed….and I still stand by that statement too.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I am on record for saying that i liked it for its low financial risk, and potential high reward.
I dont think i ever imagined him to turn around this much, though.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
6 years from now we will bring in
Cam newton and make him a good player
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
TEBOW!!!!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Jamarcus!
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Matt Leinart!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Leaf!
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Back to TEBOWWWWWW!!!!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake Locker.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Brady Quinn
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Kevin Kolb!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
alright you win
both your last two comments had me legit laughing
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
haha. Good. We were approaching too many indents.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Tavaris Jackson!
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
/GIB’ed
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Changing subjects rapidly
BGN Bowl III??!!!!!?
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Dude i wish i had been able to pull together enough time and energy to plan that right now. My wife is about 4 weeks from being due, so unfortunetly, i dont see it in the immediate future.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks. One more little Eagles fan to eventually tell you that the Vick contract was worth it! LOL.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hehe
I know it sounds like I don’t, but I actually hope it works out for him. I thought he was a hellacious player at VT and rooted for him against Florida St.
I just really hope he can turn the corner and put the hammer down. I hate to see talent wasted and this guy had worldly talent.
by DevilsReject on Aug 30, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think he needs to put up numbers like last year for this to be succesful. It would help, but even if last year proves to be his best statistical year, then here’s hoping that his next 3 are 2nd 3rd and 4th.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Most intelligent thing DevilsRetard
has said this whole thread
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
by wild_eagle on Aug 30, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh ya! i forgot
Arent you letting BGN name the thing?!? You said lil girl right?
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Maria Sharapova GIB
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If i were to vote, i think GIB-ette would work.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
what about wild_eagle-ette?
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
How about Aquila?
Italian for “eagle” and i’m sure nobody has ever used this as a first name
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
You set up the post….I guess take nominations? and vote in another?
And yes, its a little girl…..
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
....
do you ever feel like BGN knows too much about you? lol
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
LOL, nah. Whats funny is how much this place changed. There used to be like 15 regulars at most. This place has grown huge.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol
married in some island nation. I think Jamaica. Shared a slide show.
ooo and lives in baltimore! haha
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
ha…yup.
The real test…to see if you really remember the slideshow….
What color dress did my wife wear on our wedding day? LOL.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
im not answering that because
i feel like im right and that makes me feel creepy. LOL I do know Eaglesgrl said you look like Nick lachey whoever the hell that is.
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
haha. She did say that.
And you do know who nick lachey is, right?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
no.
Should I?
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
I cant tell if you’re serious or kidding….so i will play along and tell you….
Jessica Simpsons ex-husband. From the reality show, and he’s a singer.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And to tell you who i hear that i look like the most….
The ESPN analyst, Jesse Palmer. And the scary thing is….he REALLy does look like me. Bad when even I can see it.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
....
tthe first picv of him on google is him sitting in a chair backwards holding a rose…..he looks kinda douchey. Just saying lol
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
It sounds kinda familiar
but at the same time not really recalling who it is. oh well
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Who were the originals?
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
It seemed like we all knew so much about each other back then….
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah man, I have to agree.
Now there are different “niches” and shit.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Donovan McNabb!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
/Joe-D'd
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Shut the fuck up.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
Straight to the point like always Wild Eagle.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just killing it before it begins.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
tebows career in denver left
when brandon marshall did
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 1:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
that is just inaccurate and uninformed.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Shut the fuck up.
Your degree in comedy left when I took a my first breath retardodick
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
they werent even on the roster at the same time.
So if your joke was that Tebow never had a career in Denver…then i may have missed that.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You're fucking stupid,
use the reply button.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
i know they werent on the roster at the same time
i just think his chances of succes would be alot higher oh god picture all delhommes years if he never had steve smith plus my second team charges so i hate denver
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i am not sure i followed what you just wrote.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Here let me try
i know they werent on the roster at the same time, i just think his chances of success would be alot higher if they still had Brandon Marshall. Picture all delhommes years in Car if he never had steve smith and thats how tebow would turn out?
plus my second team charges so i hate denver
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
I got lost on the “god picture all delhomme years” but you transalted jibberish very well. Did you learn that in High School?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Gibberish 101. Passed with flying color
In fact Im almost fluent
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
wow….and you even spell it correctly. Noice.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
except. Delhomme wasnt that bad early on
so Im confused as to what he meant by that
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
Wow... I'm jealous.
In high school, we learn how to smoke smarties and how to wash dishes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjNXsm8s9N4
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Woot... a lot better.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The hell did you write there.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Go back to your 2nd team. We don't want you here.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
i know they werent on the roster at the same time
i just think his chances of succes would be alot higher oh god picture all delhommes years if he never had steve smith plus my second team the chargers so i hate denver
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
much better. now i got it. /s
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a major freeway near you, I'm positive of it. Go play some football with yourself on it.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
and my bad on the confusion
i get baked and twist my words up alot
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 2:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
At 2 PM....
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I'm cool, I'm an Irish guy with luck who gets baked, because that's cool to say I do on the internet.
Shut the fuck up and go away.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
i work 3 shift i have a fucked up schedule
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 2:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I've been playing the waiting game... geez. I miss working.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Get a sales job, man. Write your own ticket.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
so much for a shiny college degree
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, But those can get you in the door with better sales jobs.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 30, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
try 3rd shift it sucks but there always open cuz no one wants to do it i build skids of meat and other shit all nite and load trucks
by luck0fth31r1sh on Aug 30, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
USE THE REPLY BUTTON
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
He’s toobaked!fucking stupid!!!
Fixed it for you.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Wild_Eagles’ Heart is scarier than Hell, you lose. - d-jackfan10 at the troll known as vicksuck!
by wild_eagle on Aug 31, 2011 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This place has died.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
Wow… Now OTL going to talk about white Michael Vick too? I thought Bob Lee had some class. This is fucking moronic.
The Jruth shall be told.
I have a better solution
Only watch tv for games and movies. Turn that sucker off otherwise.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OTL usually isn’t that bad. Actually has behind the scene stories… hence “outside” the lines. The part about Vick’s creditors was pretty cool.
I’m watching NatGeo Wild now ok?!!?!?
The Jruth shall be told.
what is OTL?
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 30, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
NatGeo is the shit
Also discovery and the Surviving the Cut series or Curiousity. If you are going to watch the idiot box might as well try glean something useful from it.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week-Patton
I would go to battle any time with these guys-MV7
*curiosity
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week-Patton
I would go to battle any time with these guys-MV7
In other news...
My soon to be 19 yr old cousin beat leshawn merritt at the track and field world championships today
"I love my Ducks (wait 'til you see my O)"
You just can't compare Vick to other Quarterbacks; it
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
WTF
it’s not that simple.
Well, okay, you actually can, but my point is that every quarterback is different; Each one has their own life and story and career.
My point is that his path might be different than the others, which is why I don’t like Jason’s “likely not a fluke” choice of words.
It’s possible, but not likely… that’s assuming way too much.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 30, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone see the guy behind derrick gunn at the presser bust ass?
Guenth
by phuckthat on Aug 30, 2011 3:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great Post... Great thread
Lot of laughs, lot of good knowledge, and also LOTS of WRONG infomation (IMO) as usual. But actually, its is the best post (IMO) that Jason has made and his subsequent replies stating a certain fact could have prevented alot of the bickering on this thread.
“It’s not me, it’s the scheme. In the NFL, schemes make great quarterbacks. I love Atlanta, but I wish now I would have been drafted by the Eagles.”
We’ve all heard about the NFL being a QB’s league. Well that’s not entirely true. The NFL is a PASSING League now. The passing game is determined by the system. All of the Hall of famers of yesteryear had completion %‘s in the 50’s or lower for a reason. After more and more teams adopted passing schemes that were completion friendly and facilitated the movement of the ball down the field (which is what Walsh intended when he developed the system in Cincinnati) that led to the higher completion % #’s we see today.
Completion % should not determine the accuracy of a passer. That’s laughable. There are different dynamics that determines a completion. How far was the throw? Was the QB pressured? Where was the defender in relation to the ball? Was the pass dropped? In the case of Vick, his last 2 years in ATL, the Falcons receivers led the league in dropped passes. Add that to the fact that most of his throws came on 3rd down when defenders were looking for the pass. Now there was talk about his receivers in ATL and to be honest there were plently of factors that led to them not having success but, it all comes back to what Jason stated, the system was the determinant. Without going through everything in an effort to explain stuff, I ask people to investigate the time it takes a QB and his receivers to work the Bill Walsh system from a fresh start. The transplants like Price and the Draftees like White wer all new to the system, Hell in Price’s first year on the team he was still under Reeves’s system that was more pass happy than what Gregg Knapp installed in ATL. Again, Great Post by Jason and Good thread over all guys.
Its a shame these forums have too many "cheerleaders" and people who get most of their LOL "football knowledge" from the talking heads in the media, and not from individual study. How I wish there were more people with actual football acumen that can forward the conversation and advance the sport...
great points. btw, speaking of his ATL days, check this post out:
that details what actually happened in one of these games that stat jockeys would point at as the result of poor qb play.
take a look at the coverages he faced and the plays and routes his coach called (as well as the protection, or lack thereof, he got from his line).
Oh your speaking to the choir
I thank you for charting that game. That’s one of the one’s I use to defend Vick. The Monday night game when the Dome re-opened. The hitch routes where the corners were basically running them for the receivers and Knapp did nothing to change it. Disallowing Vick to call an audible, absolutely f’ing crazy in modern football. I think that’s the reason Mike stopped studying the game film because he had a real coordinator with Reeves and then this guy comes in and he can’t respect him because he knows less about football than Vick did. Similar to the way the Eagles defensive players revolted on McDermot because they couldn’t respect his game plans after playing with jim Johnson.
Its a shame these forums have too many "cheerleaders" and people who get most of their LOL "football knowledge" from the talking heads in the media, and not from individual study. How I wish there were more people with actual football acumen that can forward the conversation and advance the sport...
exactly (re: knapp and mcdermott). also, that's a key point wrt to coaches who
can manage someone else’s scheme, versus adapt and build his own. everyone heralded knapp’s success, but he inherited that system for a team (the 49ers) that BUILT it, and drafted and groomed around it (pre salary cap era). so him having garcia and TO and the offense looking half decent was no big deal. he just had to continue following in the blueprint that walsh and sieffert had left behind.
what his tenure in ATL showed was that he had NO clue about building a passing game from the ground up. and the monstrous rushing attack that they had was more the brainchild of alex gibbs, who came over as a consultant from denver to put in the zone blocking and one cut RB system. which worked brilliantly between the 20s. but those lighter linemen could NEVER get a push on short yardage (sound familiar?), and that led to red zone woes. worse, though, the route designs and playcalling were inane.
and knapp stuck to the script of the ‘true/traditional’ WCO principles with no audibles. its that way b/c it relies on the OC being a genius, and the gameplan defeating the opponent. but if you don’t have a genius OC, that just makes you predictable, as folks have seen w/ andy over the years.
but the route combos were terrible. and the techniques from the WRs were horrible. put ANY qb into that system and they’d have failed.
btw, i knew i was preaching to the choir. your post was very well thought out and obviously you’d been paying attention. it drives me crazy when folks will just blindly cite stats or a box score and draw conclusions. i lost so much respect for sports writers when i started really following games closely.
because if you see a guy start off 9/10 in the first half and then finish 12/24, and they say ‘the qb struggles with accuracy’, that’s complete b.s. the QB was deadly, ridiculously accurate in the 1st half. that stat line shows that the OC struggles with in game adjustments and had no solution for what the opposing DC did coming out of the locker room.
also, the wco, even more than other systems, relies heavily on scripting (in the ESPN article that talked about andy and marty’s classic 1st 15 from the MNF game vs. WAS last year, they scored 3TDs). scripting plays is a great skill. but when you see an offense come out smoking, and then sputter after the half, it tends to indicate that their in-game coaching is way out of skew with their pre-game planning and scheming.
I like your style
You’re studying the game. Ain’t it funny how the guys on TV who swear their watching film come up with these asinine remarks, and I’m not talking about the “shock guys” like Bayless, I’m talking about the ex athletes who “know” the game. I wonder if its people trying to maintain a certain status quo for whatever reason.
Like Tom Brady… woooaaahhh god! I see some guys on the internet are waking up about him but on TV, SUCKFEST city. I really like Tom. I think he’s one of the top 5 QB’s in the league as far as toughness (which is IMO the most important attribute a QB should have, even over ball placement) But the totalilty of what Vick did last year trumped him by miles.
I know people are hip to the YAC yards stuff with him but check this… He had more yards for passes THROWN BEHIND THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE then he did for passes thrown OVER 20 yards. lol… lmao… I mean you are accumulating yards automatically when you throw it that far regardless of YPC, which in most cases your going to get because completions that long are at the last level of the Defense.
Please re-read the last part and tell me that this guy doesn’t have a great system and (I believe) the 3rd best WHOLE GROUP of receivers in the league. Welker is top 3 in catches every year but he’s brushed off because he’s diminutive. And just like Woodhead, they are considered non-essential and a product of Brady. Bullshit, Woodhead averaged 5.6 YPC and had about 100 carries in an NFL season. I don’t care what system your in, if you average that many yards on that many attempts your GOOD, PERIOD.
There is so much more stuff that Brady’s stats show its ridiculous but, that being said, Vick’s season, Rivers season, and Rothlesburger’s season was better from a passer’s perspective all things considered.
And on your point about ATL Vick and Knapp… wow the guy never actually called plays in SF because Mariucci was doing that. He may have been involved in some game planning but he was never in control of that offense. He was absolutely clueless in ATL then had the nerve to insinuate Vick was dumb and wasn’t picking up the system even though he had Steve Young helping him during the summers.
And can you believe Fucking Jim Mora Jr. and Sr. Also, helping to corrupt Vick’s career with the father going out demanding that his son not get T.O. at the height of his talent and dying to come to play with Vick in ATL. He would have helped him immensely because he…
1. Knew the system inside and out and…
2. Was a Monster at the time and could get clear space from the defender to actually make a catch which the receivers they eventually brought in could not do.
LMAO Fucking Peerless Price… He Was on PED’s anyway, check his career after he left ATL since it was Vick that screwed him LOL…
And Mora JR. IDK if he was gay or what with Knapp but HE DECIDED TO QUIT ATL when he was asked to CHANGE THE OC because it was not working between him and Vick. But it was painted that he got bounced because VICK was a coach killer (a phrase coined by his dad) but all of them were too short sided to see it was there own ineptitude and ego’s that prevented them for having success. I could go on and on about this because I know VIck’s WHOLE CAREER and know all the bullshit he had to endure and still endures in the league because there are factions that want to keep the game “status quo”
Its a shame these forums have too many "cheerleaders" and people who get most of their LOL "football knowledge" from the talking heads in the media, and not from individual study. How I wish there were more people with actual football acumen that can forward the conversation and advance the sport...
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