Eagles Move Todd Herremans To Right Tackle
by JasonB on Aug 27, 2011 1:50 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintLes Bowen has received confirmation from Todd Herremans that the LG has been moved to right tackle. This is a move that has been speculated about ever since it became apparent that the Eagles would not likely have either Ryan Harris or Winston Justice to start the season. Obviously they did not feel confident in King Dunlap enough to start him at RT while either Justice or Harris heal.
There's two ways of looking at this. For one, the Eagles are deploying their best assets where they are needed most. Outside of Jason Peters, Todd Herremans is the teams best offensive lineman and they need someone to protect Michael VIck's blindside. So, from that perspective it makes sense to make the move. Plus, they've got a very capable left guard in Evan Mathis (who has confirmed that he will start at LG) to plug in to replace Herremans. In fact, if Herremans plays well there, don't be surprised if this move isn't permanent and the Eagles cut ties with Justice and/or Harris.
There is a more critical way of seeing it however. Herremans is a good offensive lineman, but he's made his name playing left guard. He was a tackle in college and has played some tackle in the pros, but this is a big position move for him. He goes from playing inside on the left to outside on the right. I don't think we can just assume he'll carry on a high level of play at his new position. On the same token, we can't necessarily assume he won't either. Until Herremans proves that he can play RT at a high level, Michael Vick's blindside remains a question mark.
That said, you certainly have to feel a little better about it with the Toddfather over there as opposed to King Dunlap or Reggie Well.
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McGlynn should be a lock for the roster now.
And I want him on this team. He would become a very valuable depth guy as a result of this move.
by andyreidswaistline on Aug 27, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
Well it opens up a spot at guard and probably eliminates one at tackle.
I honestly think this move is for good.
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I like that they had it as a last resort ...
… and tried all the other options, including signing an RT, waiting to see if Justice could get healthy and seeing if Dunlap could play.
It means they recognized the value of keeping Todd at LG and having one solid side of the line, but knew if worse came to worst, and it apparently had, they could do this.
Bad management is either not having these options or not recognizing them soon enough to go with it.
Wonder if TH playing next to DW will help the rook.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
eh
I don’t know if that’s necessarily true.
Jamaal Jackson would likely get the backup C/G spot over McGlynn
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
I’d rather have Jackson myself.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jackson is going to be the starting C
I guess you can say if Kelce is the 6th-best OL that we’d start him at C and move Jackson in case of injury, but I really think this means Mathis is the LG. Or McGlynn. (haven’t read the thread yet)
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Ah yes
I am so smart I repeat stuff that was in the original post.
(sucks at posting)
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Yes!
#toddfather
Last name Ever
First name Greatest
by Djax10 on Aug 27, 2011 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That’s a great name for Herremans.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 28, 2011 9:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Todzilla
That;s all I got to say.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
"Good? bad? I’m the one with the gun." - Bruce Campbell in The Army of Darkness
WOW
im glad they finally moved him over,lets hope we have the solution thats evadaed us for they past few yrs
"Shady hits the hole as he breaks one for 80,running over both linebackers and the free safety".
by Dunta Is A PUNK on Aug 27, 2011 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
Running game could take a hit
Especially to left side where they were exceptionally strong.
But it doesn’t matter. I like the move. Gotta give your 2nd best Olineman a chance in the most critical spot on the line.
by Smitty2K3 on Aug 27, 2011 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but the thing is, if we ran, teams knew we were running left. This mixes the run game up a bit even if the blocking suffers. Besides, passing is the majority of our offense and this greatly improves pass protection.
Last name Ever
First name Greatest
The best part about it though
was that people knew we were going to run left, and they still couldn’t stop us.
But yeah, it’ll be good to equalize the whole line. Hope Todd is just as good at RT as he was at RG.
I can see us running more to the right, Watkins has looked at his best when we are runnng right behind him. With this move, I think it also means Jamal starts at C. This way we have his experience to lean on, with both Gs being new.
I wonder
if they could move Kelce to guard. If he’s shown enough promise to start over Jackson in a preseason game (although he did not play well), maybe they can set him up for more success at a spot that requires less thinking and he can focus on what he needs to do.
3 things
1) It will bring stability which is good & I think Todd could be a Pro Bowl T 2) Don’t know how I feel about breaking the Peters/Herremans combo though 3) Why not Jackson instead of Mathis? He could help Kelce with line calls
He didn't say
Jackson instead of Todd.
I think he meant why not start Jamaal at RG instead of Evan Mathis…
LG
I still think Jamaal is going to be our starter at C once he is back to form.
Byahhh!
by begforme4484 on Aug 27, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
LG is what I meant. Thanks.
But yeah, I agree. I think JJ will start. Although I think Kelce is the C for the future. When Vick got killed Thurs night, it wasn’t really because of physical letdowns. It was almost always a mental breakdown. I think once Kelce and Watkins get some experience, they will be a very good combo on the interior of the line.
Few Tweets to update the situation and give more info:
EaglesInsider
Your new OL … from left to right … Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Watkins and Todd Herremans. Herremans took first-team reps at RT.
22 minutes ago
caplannfl Adam Caplan
Herremans has a $1.5 million base escalator in his contract to increase his base salary if he plays OT.
24 minutes ago
caplannfl Adam Caplan
Not sure how many games he has to play at OT, however. Also has $500,000 pro bowl escalator for playing OT.
23 minutes ago
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
I think he's staying at RT, Mathis @ LG
Also, Kelce is staying at center.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so
Like Clay, they’re giving him a chance as a rookie.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Difference being...
…if Casey messes up, it’s a first down or a touchdown. If Kelce messes up the call at the LOS…it could mean Vick’s season is done. How much of the confusion in the Cleveland game should be attributed to Kelce? How many of those hits that Vick got in the backfield should be blamed on him?
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Is Jamal Jackson not 100%? Matthews I can kind of understand, but whats the reason kelce is being tossed right into the starting spot?
NFL, I am no longer disappoint.
That's the $100 question
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the OL I have wanted to see ever since Mathis signed.
Let them practice and play themselves into a good OL by season’s end, when it really counts. It won’t always look good early on, but these guys are smart and tough, and they play like football players,not fat slobs. They will get better and better with time.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
That's good work by TH's agent
the “if I play T” escalator clauses. Since Ts make mo’ dough
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Just shows
how poor their last few drafts been when going for Oline guys. Guess next season they go for RT high
Well, they haven’t really drafted lineman very much in recent years. At least not high.
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Mathis has some years left.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
good
i cant wait to see how he does
RIP Lennie Bias
Hold my Vick
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Danny O'brien=future #1 overall pick
Lesean is the "Real Slim Shady"
Not really very excited by the move.
"Descartes commanded the future from his study more than Napoleon did from his throne."
by Euler.is.a.Pimp on Aug 27, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
Great reasoning
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Hmmm
I’m not excited about breaking up Peters and Herremans, but this had to be done. I don’t want to see Vince Young playing by week 5.
Byahhh!
by begforme4484 on Aug 27, 2011 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m pretty sure Kafka is ahead of Vince in terms of who comes in for injury. Vince may roll with the 2s, but I think they’re trying to evaluate him.
Or, you could be correctly saying that if the line isn’t fixed, we’ll be on 3rd string QB by week 5. Which is true.
But The Todd will be okay at RT, and stellar at RT by midpoint.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Aug 27, 2011 2:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you not read before you write?
I wasn’t aware that you’ve seen an injury to Vick during a real game situation, and know whose really #2.
Kafka knows the system, preforms better in camp/practice than Young, and has the longer contract.
There’s no way of knowing what exactly will happen. Young rolling with the 2s only means that Young is rolling with the 2s. Doesn’t mean he’s the first off the bench in an injury.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Aug 27, 2011 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I understand what you're saying
And I disagree.
I suppose if Vick were suddenly out Week 1 that Kafka might give us a better chance to win, but Vince isn’t here on a 1-year deal to watch if Vick goes down. They might tailor the offense to him if he has to start for a four-week period, and it might not be “fair” since Kafka seems to show a better mastery of the offense right now … but they can figure out how to get VY to give us a better chance to win.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
All he can do is run.
It took a year to discipline Vick into the QB he is today. Young wouldn’t last two weeks before they started Kafka instead.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
"Good? bad? I’m the one with the gun." - Bruce Campbell in The Army of Darkness
I don't think judging VY this quickly
is much different than judging Kelce or Casey Mathews, except that Vince at least has the NFL track record.
I think Kafka has outplayed him so far but my guess is if it came down to it, the coaches would go with VY and tailor a game plan to his skills.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Although Kafka by week 7 might work out.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
The Toddfather is far better than Queenie and Reggie Unwells.
I’m okay with this move. Didn’t PFF have something about Herremans being the best pass blocker on the team last year? Which is stellar, considering he takes on undertackles, stunting REs, and ROLB/RMLB blitzes.
He does have a tackle background- and wasn’t Herremans brought in to be the future of RT anyway? He was forced into LG due to injuries and happened to play pro-bowl well. I don’t think its a stretch to imagine him continuing the tradition of not sucking.
I imagine that’s why he has those type of escalators in his contract. RT was the end goal to begin with, I don’t understand why it took them so long.
RT is harder to find than LG.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Aug 27, 2011 2:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No actually they said Todd got worse in pass pro last year, but had a great year in run blocking
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Per @ToddHerremans:
Ask and you shall receive..
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
awsome
so he stepped up and said himself he wanted to play RT and fill the biggest void on our line? I love that shit he’s gonna dominate.
by phillyfan330 on Aug 27, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha
That’s epic.
"Get 'Em"
by FlyEagles15 on Aug 27, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Protecting Vick’s blindside is far more important than the good thing they had going in the run game on the left side.
by JimmyK on Aug 27, 2011 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Especially when you consider we like to pass a lot more than we like to run…
Also thinking (and hoping) Evan Mathis will be solid at LG.
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
No sacks allowed in 700+ snaps the last 2 seasons.
by JimmyK on Aug 27, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If it were any other coach besides Reid or Belichek, I think it’d be a little bit of a closer call.
However, protecting the distributor for 65% of your offensive plays is paramount.
And he have guard depth anyway. I’ll take our chances. Vick can roll outside if inside pressure is too much.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Aug 27, 2011 2:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't a fan of this move but could come round to it
I didn’t think Herremans had done that well sliding out to tackle (and that was on the left anyway), and he hadn’t done it recently, but if Mudd and Andy think they can make this work (and that there’s enough time to make it work in the regular season), they probably know something I don’t.
Anyway, if it works it works.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
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"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
toddfather haha
I’ve been hoping for this move for the last couple weeks. Just don’t have the confidence in them other 3
by phightin_iggles on Aug 27, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
worth a shot
"Eli made a good tackle. I tried to run him over. ... Next time I'll try to jump over his head or something." - Asante Samuel
by abains007 on Aug 27, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
A bit more info-
Check out Jason B’s write up about Evan Mathis. Looks good to me.
And don’t forget, the Toddfather has played Tackle in the past (and did an excellent job) and also has the extra financial motivation (as if he needs it) to play well.
Overall, my biggest comment is that I wish Mathis and Todd could have played in their new roles against the Browns, or in an actual game.
Here’s hoping they play at least a few series against the Jets.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
When did he play tackle, was it left tackle for a game or 2 ?? I don’t think he’s ever played right tackle though, so in agreement that it would have been nice to see Todd in a pre-season game at RT, you never know, they might give him a few snaps against the Jets.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Aug 27, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he played @ LTas a rookie for 4 games
He was a LT in college too.
Caplan says it’s his best, most natural position.
He also said some scouts thought out of college he’d be a Pro Bowl-level Tackle.
I think the biggest thing is that people didn’t want to break up that awesome left side of our Offensive Line.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he’s built for it….
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Exactly, although that phrase needs some serious upgrading
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Overall, a great decision, now I think you’ve got the 5 best offensive linemen (per the scheme) starting as Mudd had promised he would do.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Aug 27, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes!
Now let’s be patient and let it play out. I think they just have to play as a unit for a few weeks ( months? ) and they’ll be very solid, maybe better.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
To be fair to Mudd
You have to give them time to gel, at least the first half of the season.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Aug 27, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Eagles fans are gonna wait that long
but I think they deserve some time, and after the Giants and Falcons back to back, our schedule has a lot of winnable games in a row.
Also I rec’d your 5 best OL post. First time ever?
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Well...
I think Mudd deserves patience, he’s supposed to be the best in the game so he deserves that we give the line and his scheme some time to get it together.
Thanks for the rec, I am actually really excited about the Herremans move, I think he was probably the best canditate for that spot including if Ryan Harris was healthy, so I’m glad that Mudd is a little unconventional and goes with the best players even though it might mean moving someone like Herremans to a totally new position. And somehow I was hoping that they would get Mathis in the starting lineup, and they did, so I think they will be really good to go, since they won’t all get to play together in a game until week 1, I think the fans are going to have to be patient this year. I know, Superbowl expectations from everyone, including me, but with what the Eagles are trying to do, I can actually be patient because this just makes us stronger in the long run. If Vick can somehow survive the rookie and vet mistakes early in the season, then we should be good for the playoff run…
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Aug 27, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait so is Mathis not hurt now?
I thought he was out for most of the season? but the comments above say he’s our LG
by flyeaglesfly1020 on Aug 27, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
you mean Ryan Harris or Winston Justice?
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
why didnt they do this after the pittsburgh game?
That would have given todd reps against the browns, and why is jackson not starting at center?
by con-vick on Aug 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
In regards to Jackson not starting, here's what he said today per McLane
“You can call it a competition if you want,” Jackson said. “I don’t. That’s pretty much it. If he needs help I’ll help him. Competition — nah, there’s no competition.”
Asked to clarify his comment, Jackson said, “Just what I said — there’s no competition. Whoever’s in there they’re the starter. Point blank.”
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Aug 27, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s pissed – obviously knows he’s the better player as of right now.
The Jruth shall be told.
by packimop on Aug 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watkins should really benefit from this. He should feel much more comfortable playing next to Todd over the king.
Babin should be a good test for Todd. I’d like to see that matchup.
I really wonder now if the starters play in the next game. I really hope they play a couple series just to see how things roll.
"Get 'Em"
by FlyEagles15 on Aug 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That's a good point
Watkins and Herremans worked out together during thelockout, so I’d assume they probably have a good chemistry going. That could be huge.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Cole would be the best test.
He could teach Herremans how to deal with the worst case scenario. He should get a lot of reps against Trent for that reason.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
"Good? bad? I’m the one with the gun." - Bruce Campbell in The Army of Darkness
Doppleganger
There’s an actor Todd looks exactly like. Can’t find him.
by andyreidswaistline on Aug 27, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
A-ha!
Tom Sizemore
Was driving me nuts.
by andyreidswaistline on Aug 27, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank god we’ve got a bunch of high picks for next year. OT has to be the highest priority right now
Not if Herremans plays well.
It could be at least as good as Thomas-Runyan.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
If they work as well as our starting T combo as Tre and Runyan I am throwing a party. A big one!
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Best news I have heard all day.
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Per JR Ricket (JamJax's agent):
@CenterStage67 will handle this decision with class as he always does. But, he also welcomes the opportunity to compete anytime, anyplace!
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
(referring to Kelce starting at C, of course)
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m curious why Jackson isn’t the starter, though? It was fairly obvious Kelce and Watkins were bad against the Browns. Why pair two rookies when Jackson is (or at least was) a very good center? Do they think he’s too slow or something?
Aside from that, I think they didn’t really have a choice. They kind of dug their own grave on the O-Line by not addressing it more via draft or free agency. Harris was a risk that just did not pay off, and I think his career is probably over. Come April there’s no doubt that the Eagles will have to draft at least one true tackle in the early rounds, if not two (maybe a T and a T/G combo).
Kelce is more athletic than JamJax. Mudd seems to be hellbent on having an athletic C, and Kelce is his guy.
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think Kelce will start Week 1?
I put those odds as about the same as hitting the pick 4 straight up.
Reasons:
1. RIGHT NOW, Jackson is better. So what…Kelce can get ahead of screen passes better. You don’t trade in the better blocking on regular plays for better blocking on gadget plays you run 3-6 times a game.
2. Jackson knows the offense and is a stabilizing force. Last year, his knowledge was sorely missed while his play was just missed a bit.
3. His up in age. The Eagles won’t cut him this year because they obviously don’t like what McGlynn did or how he fits into this system. So it makes sense to start Jackson now while letting Kelce learn behind him for the future and provide a capable backup if needed.
4. Kelce’s own play dictates it. I don’t think that he could have even won the starting job had he had a good game in Pitt, but seeing as he didn’t, I think that sealed the deal.
5. The scenario. Admit it or not, this team has been built to win it all THIS SEASON. It’s unfathomable that they are going into it with a rookie 4th rounder at MLB. It would be unconscionable to go into it with a 7th round rookie at center of one of the best offenses in the league.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Me too. Especially starting the season with back to back road conference games in domes.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 4:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
These are good points. I personally am more comfortable with JamJax starting at C. I just think Mudd is really hellbent to have Kelce start.
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems to be the case here
After the Cleveland game it seemed obvious they should go back to JJ, but if his agent is sending out tweets like the above, they know the fix is in.
It’s not the worst thing in the world if Mudd wants to make Kelce his guy — we have to give him a chance just like we said to give Casey a chance — but holy crap Kelce better deliver.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
This could potentially be a disastrous mistake
I hate it.
You don’t screw with the health of your franchise quarterback. On Thursday night, we did just that. I chalked it up to testing out various offensive lines and getting the rookies playing time.
This is a stupid decision considering what we’ve seen so far.
I hope Kelce starts week1
because I hope Mudd sees vast potential in him to be the leader of the OL. I expect there to be copious pissing and moaning every time Kelce looks less than great, but, seriously, what kind of a coach would Mudd be if he didn’t know just what he wanted in a Center?
It’s a 16 game reg season, so if it takes 4-6 weeks for the OL to gel, then another 2-4 to hit their peak, big deal.
A well integrated, talented OL ( which is what we could have ) would make this Offense a total, fucking blast come playoff time.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
4-6 weeks is plenty of time for Vick to sustain a broken arm, or worse, as a direct result of piss poor line play
To risk the health of your franchise quarterback is stupid when you have an alternative that isn’t nearly as risky.
There’s no slicing that any other way. Either Kelce is dramatically improved for week one, or he should not be the starter. It’s as simple as that.
That's true.
It only takes one hit, and having a light in the ass Kelce being literally picked up and thrown at Michael Vick is a great way to get him fucking killed.
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
Ed Wade=all the farm system the Phillies will ever need.
Yup
I will allow for Mudd seeing the potential in Kelce and having seen him practice, fit in the scheme, etc., but you have to admit … going with Jackson pretty much seems like a no-brainer. I’d rather they not risk it and rush into the Kelce thing.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Seriously, let the kid improve in practice before you throw him to the wolves. It’s just an unnecessary risk with how good this team is. I could understand if the Eagles weren’t a playoff contender, but they are so it’s just reckless to downgrade the offensive line for the sake of the future.
The Jruth shall be told.
Knowing just what you want in a center...
…does not mean Kelce is the guy. Look, I was never a fan of that QB we traded away because he was GIVEN the job…he never beat anyone for it. Jackson got the job by taking it from someone. His play dictated he should be on the field over Fraley. Now, if you or Mudd or anyone else can tell me that Kelce’s play has warranted him starting over Jamaal, then so be it. But Kelce’s mother would probably start Jackson at center after the Cleveland game.
I think this is a case of over thinking it somewhat. Mudd’s system should be looked at like switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4. It can’t happen completely in one offseason because you simply don’t have the parts you need (Ask the lolSkins). Now, I don’t mind Kelce being the “starter in waiting” as Jamaal is getting a little long in the tooth, but Kelce is simply a round peg being FORCED into an extra small square hole by Mudd. And with the aspirations of this team, someone has to veto that move. COUGH ANDY REID COUGH
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Well, you better be ready to fathom that shit and get in touch with your conscience
Because I believe it’s happening
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it.
I think this is a serious misreading of the tea leaves. I am stating it right now and I don’t really care what the “experts” say (no disrespect to the experts here)
JAMAAL JACKSON WILL START AT CENTER FOR THE PHILADELPHIA EAGLES WEEK 1
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Alrighty... fair enough
How about a friendly wager?
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Gimme time to down a couple more beers- helps the flow of my creative juices
I’ll be back; see if you can come up with something as well.
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Great movie
Val Kilmer was born to play that role. He has so many awesome lines that it is hard to pick a best one.
“You’re a daisy if you do.”
i give up
bragging rights sounds good
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...I can't think of anything either...
How about the loser professes how great the winner is in his Siggy line for 2 months.
No sarcasm, either…
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
okie
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 29, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I truly have to believe
its were the ongoing injury concerns that make them start Kelce over Jackson. Not to say that Kelce isn’t good. From what I’ve seen he is GOING to be solid but Jackson is really the best option right now. Jacks is heavier than what Mudd usually trots out there but he has the agility to do the job. I’m a little down about this decision but it surely has the POTENTIAL to work. I LOVE the Mathis move. I thought he should have started over Watkins at RG but I understand the money side of that decision. Hopefully Watkins gets up on the calls and gets in the film room.
Its a shame these forums have too many "cheerleaders" and people who get most of their LOL "football knowledge" from the talking heads in the media, and not from individual study. How I wish there were more people with actual football acumen that can forward the conversation and advance the sport...
I called it ....
The day they signed Reggie Wells back.
by hoya03 on Aug 27, 2011 3:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No one saw it coming!!!
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
No one saw coming!!!
Follow @PhillyFollower
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Philly's Most Valuable Blogger Awards 2011: Vote for BGN!
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That's better.
Now I can calm down and have another glass of hooch.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
Per @RoobCSN
Todd H on RT: “We’ve got a limited amount of time, but I was a tackle before I was ever a guard. It’s going to feel comfortable eventually.”
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
Sup with Julian Vandervelde? Is he not showin' up at camp or something?
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 27, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
Looks like PS material.
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s been working with the backups.
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Didn’t herremans play LT when Peters was injured a few years ago? Not sure if he played well. Would be nice if one of you guys went back, watched film and did a video review :)
by The Pied Piper on Aug 27, 2011 3:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Herremans has started five games at tackle in his career, all on the left side. Four came his rookie year, one in ’09.
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by PhiladelphiaEagles on Aug 27, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
his rookie year being '05
Started @ LT.
Andy and Juan had/have faith in him, wouldn’tyah say?
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Aug 27, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Thomas,
not that it matters.
Video shows that H played quite well for a rookie.
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
Move out of necessity, not out of want
Damn shame Harris is out. Herremans should at least be consistent and steady. Need that as a minimum with a QB blind-side especially a rookie starter at RG and potentially at C.
Eagles’ problem on the OL hasn’t been there drafting in the early round. It is has been the terrible drafts they have had in the later rounds & developing these guys into quality depth guys/starters. Done a pretty poor job of that.
Not exactly much depth again on the OL in the early going either.
Who have the Eagles drafted in the early rounds that worked out for more than a couple years?
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
Ignorant question
The Eagles have been one of the best drafting teams in the league in the Reid era. You can get hung up on a few big mistakes (Freddie Mitchell, Jerome McDougall), but Reid’s overall record is excellent — even just limited to the first few rounds (i.e., not counting gems like Trent Cole). So, in response to your question, how about:
1999:
1. Donovan McNabb
2000:
1. Corey Simon
2001:
3. Derrick Burgess
4. Correll Buckhalter
2002:
1. Lito Shepard
2. Michael Lewis
2. Sheldon Brown
3. Brian Westbrook
2003:
2. LJ Smith
2004:
1. Shawn Andrews
2005:
1. Mike Patterson
4. Todd Herremans
2006:
1. Broderick Bunkley
2. Winston Justice
4. Jason Avant
2007:
2. Kevin Kolb
3. Stewart Bradley
2008:
2. DeSean Jackson
2009:
1. Jeremy Maclin
2. LeSean McCoy
by Clyde Simmons 96 on Aug 27, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sick of Mudd. Everyone was so optimistic about him, but I don’t see it. He obviously hasn’t done anything to help the line out, and he’s coached 7 different teams and most of them have had losing records. I just don’t get why he’s viewed as such a successful coach by most fans.
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
75% of the Earth is covered by water, the rest by Nnamdi Asomugha.
Because for the last decade the lines he coached gave up the fewest sacks. I believe it’s 100 less sacks than 2nd place.
Try teaching players a new system in a couple of weeks.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Mikesta on Aug 27, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A lot of his success had to do with Manning
Not saying Mudd’s bad, because I’m fairly sure he’s an improvement over Castillo. But to expect him to duplicate his success in Indy here is not realistic.
Its very realistic. You kidding me?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Mikesta on Aug 27, 2011 9:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah — fuck it. Mudd is a legend, built the line that kept Peyton Manning clean for a decade, etc., etc. But let’s give up any hope after 3 preseason games. That makes more sense….
by Clyde Simmons 96 on Aug 27, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see both points.
I think that DLawrence is right about a lot of the success having to do with Peyton. And not because of his mobility like eaglesinmd is sarcastically suggesting. The reason is because of Peyton’s intelligence on the field and ability to make quick reads. 9 times out of 10, he knows where the defense is coming from, which means he knows where their weakness is. He’ll check to a short throw to make you pay for blitzing. Because of that, teams blitz him much less than any other QB and very few teams can get pressure with just the front four…especially without a top 5 defensive end. That leads to fewer sacks. Also, since Peyton calls the plays on the field in that system, he can get a later look at personnel than normal and call a run to exploit any blitzes or coverage.
Now, on the other side of it, it is realistic to think Mudd could duplicate his success. The chicken or the egg conversation above totally discounts the success that Mudd has had turning average players into really good offensive linemen. Anyone who watched TCL or went to Lehigh has seen the kind of teacher that he is on the field. And he is one of the few offensive linemen that take a “fire first” approach to blocking, which naturally makes his linemen more aggressive. Offensive linemen love to run block because it gives them a change to attack…in Mudd’s system, they get that chance in pass protection to.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
What have the teams losing record anything to do with the o-line coach? When the Steelers last won a SB, they had a terrible o-line.
by Anders Jensen on Aug 27, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you looking for an answer?
Or just complaining?
"Even those invested in the idea that the journey is the destination may feel they've taken a train to nowhere." - Terry Lawson
To be fair to Mudd...
…he has shit to work with. I mean, the Queen and Bustice? What the fuck is that trash?
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
Ed Wade=all the farm system the Phillies will ever need.
Everybody said Bobby April was horrible too
STs are starting to come around though. And these coaches are starting to get some of “their guys” in there.
You don’t have to be in love with Mudd, but do realize that most of us are going to beyond a few preseason games before we pass judgment.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
re: kelce over jackson
For one, we don’t know what the opening day roster is. We know what Jackson will be, we don’t know about Kelce will be though.
And Jackson has 2 years worth of missed time now. Getting the contingency plan plenty of reps with 1s isn’t a bad idea
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Aug 27, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The thing is ...
… it’s starting not to feel like just a contingency plan anymore.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
That wasn't a RT thing
That was a C-RG thing.
Say what you will about Dunlap (and he certainly isn’t starter material), but it wasn’t him getting Vick killed.
Yeah that strikes me as odd
that he’s being indirectly scapegoated. I thought he was okay, but maybe the game video showed something else or maybe they just wanted Todd over there knowing the assignments and tutoring Big Danny
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
I don't think they are blaming him...
Look at it this way…this allows the OLine to get their best players on the field at the same time which is the same approach I’ve been clamoring for for years. I think JimmyK said Mathis hasn’t given up a sack in 700+ snaps at LG. So he is a much better LG than Dunlap is a RT. Therefore, moving Herremans to RT allows us to replace a suspect player with what is hoped to be a good player while not dropping off that much at the other position. Ever since the realization that Harris wasn’t going to play hit, I’ve been hoping for this move.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
I like the move ...
… Mathis sounds good, and I’ve never been a Dunlap fan.
I understand about getting the best five-man line out there too
But I do find it curious that after the game when the center and first-round draft pick RG looked to the be the main problems, that we would replace the RT. Dunlap can’t be too happy about that.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
This is a good thing for the rivalry, at the very least.
Tuck vs Herremans is a worthy successor to Strahan vs Runyan.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 27, 2011 5:09 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed. This should be fun. Strahan and Runyan was always a matchup to keep an eye on.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 5:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Todd Herremans
I Have to say Todd has filled in nicely all the years he has been an Eagle. We need more guys like him.
Why not swap Guards?
Why not swap Mathis and Watkins? Watkins could be next to Peters wich would probobly make him play better and Mathis and Herremans toghter would be wery solid as well as it would help Todd’s transition from LG to RT.
Instead of having a great left side they could have a solid line all over.
Where is your evidence that Evan Mathis is a "very capable" LG??
He’s only started 7 career games there and hasn’t even started an NFL game since 2009. If he were “very capable,” why would he have been a backup on the shitty Bengals last year and be on his fourth team in his 7th NFL season? I’m not saying I think this new o-line is worse or anything, but you said Evan Mathis is “very capable” at LG when it seems like hasn’t proven that he has been in his career at all up until this point…
by FooFighter1124 on Aug 27, 2011 5:30 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Well in 700 snaps he has not given up a sack. And the Bengals offensive line improved dramatically whenever he played.
As we’ve pointed out countless times, when Mathis starts at left guard, the Bengals interestingly win football games. Mathis was graded as the third best linemen during pass and rush blocks by Pro Football Focus during a seven-game stretch that the Bengals went 6-1. He graded as the second-best overall lineman for the entire year and as this awesome reward, they replace him with a player that Pro Football Focus graded as one of the worst offensive linemen on the team.
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In short, the Bengals are stupid.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook. Did you get your copy of the 2011 Eagles Annual yet?
by JasonB on Aug 27, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha definitely agree with that statement… I guess I’m just a little leery that 7 games is kind of a small sample size, but hopefully he plays well here.
by FooFighter1124 on Aug 27, 2011 5:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We got a 2nd and DRC out of 7 games!
by DLawrence55 on Aug 27, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha yeah… and Kevin Kolb got $63.5 million
by FooFighter1124 on Aug 27, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
*you said Evan Mathis is “very capable” at LG like it was a well-known fact when it seems…
by FooFighter1124 on Aug 27, 2011 5:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
unrelated, but every time I see that
“via SB Nation iPhone app”, I get a little annoyed that the Android version isn’t out. It’d make my life so much easier when I’m in class.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 27, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My Droid X is waiting, somewhat impatiently.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah Droid X here too.I’m pissed that the iphone gets apps first
by nyeaglesfan624 on Aug 27, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Great minds think alike don’t they? Anti-Droid bias. Haha…
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 7:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Droid is catching on
But there are still millions more iPhone and iPad users.
If you could only launch one at a time, it appears Apple is still the smart way to go, and this is one reason some customers prefer Apple when they also like Google.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
I guess this (thankfully) means...
…that Jason’s game day thread won’t have to include a spot for the inevitable Vick obituary since Bustice or the Queen won’t be the turnstile du jour at tackle.
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
Ed Wade=all the farm system the Phillies will ever need.
EB, are you trying to say ...
… you like this move?
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
Kelse and the line
someone said put the kid at center and give the new group 4-6 games to gel.
in response, someone said Vick will be dead by game 7.
okay. so why not throw Young and Kafka out there for the first 4-6 weeks.
then bring in Vick to run the table down the stretch.
by then, this line would be killer.
kidding.
Easily my favorite offensive lineman and top three offensive player
I’m thrilled, I hope he dominates. He’s a smart guy and pretty athletic. Couldn’t be happier for the Toddfather.
Trevor Laws: "Thank Giants for kicking to (Desean)."
Mike Vick: "Why would they kick to Desean?"
Matt Dodge: "Snap too high!"
NJ Eagle: "Fly Eagles Fly!!!"
Dunlap was a 7th round pick and Justice has a bum knee. Eagles were rolling the dice that Harris’ back would hold out. It didn’t. Better to make this move now than say 2-3 weeks into the season.
Preach brother, preach! Don’t waste any more time hoping to get Harris back.
by 92-74-99-96 on Aug 27, 2011 10:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Where is W.E?
He is the only guy I know who likes watching the OLine to scout their talent. I expected him to be all over this thread.
Joe Banner is Evil Banners father. Kinda like Luke and Darth Vader.
Juan Castillo switching from the offensive line coach to Defensive coordinator is soooo dumb it might just work.
Our defense will not be a top 10 defense this year.
by MightyJoeBanner on Aug 27, 2011 6:54 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe he finally had a date
or he blew away in the hurricane (<—- not funny when we find out the storm really hurt someone)
I always found MG77 to be the o-line freak around here.
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
ha
are you saying W.E is hard up for a date? I thought he had a girl? Im sure you were kidding but man is he gonna tear into you.
Joe Banner is Evil Banners father. Kinda like Luke and Darth Vader.
Juan Castillo switching from the offensive line coach to Defensive coordinator is soooo dumb it might just work.
Our defense will not be a top 10 defense this year.
by MightyJoeBanner on Aug 28, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I can handle whatever he cooks up
after all, I did play D-III football!
-- Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
-- Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
-- "The only 'Dream Team' I know about is the Green Bay Packers." -- Jeffrey Lurie
so, there are several suspicious folks out there as well. Good to be part of a crowd.
The first Drauschak.
by birds'n'raiders on Aug 28, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta love BGN
In 3 different conversations at the bar tonight, I got to break the news that Herremans was going to RT.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
It's about time!
This move makes all the sense in the world and it’s about time! RT is too valuable a position for the Eagles. If we’re indeed “all in” then it starts with Mike Vick and protecting his blindside should be priority #1. I feel comfortable with entrusting Herremans with that responsibility. He’s arguably our best lineman. Now, let’s go get ’em!
by darkknight9a on Aug 28, 2011 3:45 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
So the line has two rookies side-by-side with Kelce and Watkins.
If I was a D-Line coordinator, I would consider that the first/best place on which to load up.
Whoever you are, when I log off, you cease to exist.
"Good? bad? I’m the one with the gun." - Bruce Campbell in The Army of Darkness
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