Miami Football Scandal Reflects Poorly On The Character Of Players Involved
by JasonB on Aug 17, 2011 2:45 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintIt's fair to say that college football players, especially those at large universities, deserve to compensated beyond just their free education. They help the schools bring in millions in TV revenues, merchandising, ticket sales and they're not allowed even have a part time job. I see how that's a problem, especially for a lot of these kids that are coming from impoverished backgrounds.
That said, in no way does that excuse or justify doing what these Miami players did. What they did was flat out wrong and frankly, I think it shows a lot about how weak their character is and they should be ashamed of what they've done. All student athletes are made aware of what the rules are and make a pledge to uphold those rules. These guys violated that pledge and screwed over tons of people in the process for what? A TV? Hookers? And we're supposed to hold these guys blameless? And let's be honest, these allegations reveal a lot about these players that a mere stipend to give them spending money would never change. If you're the kind of person (like say, Jonathon Vilma is alleged to be) that would try to injure another player for five grand, I suspect some extra spending money wouldn't change that much about you.
They not only brought shame on themselves, but they screwed over their university which gave them a free education and their opportunity in the NFL, they screwed over their fellow students and faculty who benefit from the income and fame football brings to the school, and they screwed over the fans of the school who will be around long after these players have left. Plus, they screwed over the guys currently on the team who do have the character to be honest and live up to their pledge. They are selfish, weak and clearly ungrateful individuals who deserve to be held responsible for what they did, but won't.
Instead Antrel Rolle, Jonathon Vilma, Frank Gore, Vince Wilfork and yes Antonio Dixon will go on making their millions in the NFL while the students, fans, former/current teammates and school (the last of which is not blameless for sure) will be left to pick up the pieces. But hey, at least those guys to spend a night on a yacht.
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I agree that it isn’t fair that these players will go on unpunished while the university and current team have to suffer, but as a 19 year old kid, are you really going to be thinking that far ahead to say no to a guy that says “Hey you and your teammates can come have a party at my mansion and yacht, bring the bitches”
Last name Ever
First name Greatest
Again, that’s no excuse. You’re an adult at 19. I get that you’re still young and young people do stupid things, but being 19 doesn’t make you any less dishonest or wrong.
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agreed
Just because you’re 19 doesn’t give you an excuse, that’s a weak argument and just trying to find a way to maybe make it right.
You’re an adult act like it. Not saying I’ve never done anything stupid, but here’s the difference…..I’ve had to pay for my mistakes. These players are getting off free!
You’re an adult who isn’t allowed to have a part time job, sell your possessions, or truly speak your mind. The age is telling me ‘adult’ but the rights these players have stripped away from them really makes it sound like they aren’t allowed to be adults yet if they want to use their given talents.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
No one is “stripping rights away” from these guys; that is just absurd. They can sell their possessions. They just can’t sell their football related memorbilia for profit. There’s a difference there. That’s the rules of the game; the price of participation. You can’t sell your Xbox to China or Pakistan, even if you wanted to. That is the law.
As for speaking their mind, where are the limitations on that? Lipping off to your coach? That’s just poor sportsmanship.
It’s their possession, why shouldn’t they be allowed to see it if they don’t care for it to any citizen who is legally able to pay for it? And as for speaking their mind, look what happened to Terrell Pryor last year or the year before about Vick, yeah, what he said was dumb but after he said it, it was a media shit storm and he wasn’t really allowed to give press conferences again, he had a right to speak his mind and that right was essentially taken from him. Some teams have twitter bans. Everything they say has to be PC and run through a filter.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Ok, give me a break. Terrell Pryor said something stupid, and, being a pubic figure, received negative media coverage for it? And this is somehow an infringement of his right to speak freely? Ridiculous. This happens to everyone famous who says something stupid. Talk to Howard Dean, Michelle Bachmann, or Sarah Palin. Pryor had a RIGHT to say anything they want to say because the 1st Amendment guarantees you freedom from government infringement on your actions, not infringement by school that you make look bad through your own stupidity. Terrell Pryor could have said whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted (hell, he sure did everything else he wanted to) without fear of government reprisals. But his school, coach and the media have no such limitations. He has no “rights” in those situations, he has privileges. He lost them because he wasn’t mature enough to use them correctly. Everything is run through a filter because you can’t have people who represent your institution in the public eye acting like jackasses. “PC” and “PR” does not equate to unconstitutionally inhibited speech. It’s protecting your reputation from semi-educated morons who don’t realize the negative impact of their being semi-educated morons.
And they are allowed to sell their possessions — there’s no law forbidding the sale of the property. The rule is that they can’t play football if they sell their football related memorbilia. This hang up on legality is useless, because laws don’t apply to this area of the NCAA. It’s a private organization and schools agree to follow it’s rules in exchange for membership. You can sell whatever you want for as much as you want; I don’t think Pryor or any OSU guys were forced to give the money back. They just can’t play anymore.
Those are the rules. They apply to everyone. They all knew it. They knew what would happen if they got caught. And they did.
I'm saying the rules blow.
And aren’t fair to the athletes, I can’t blame them one bit for breaking these rules. They see how much money the schools make off of them every day, they deserve a cut somehow, and if the schools won’t give them a cut and someone else is willing to, so be it. If you get caught, you get caught, if you don’t, all the power to you.
And a scholarship is not even remotely enough to be fair. If these kids were majoring in microbiology and law, I could buy it, but they aren’t, kinesiology, parks and recreation management and communications are what it’s limited too mostly with a few exceptions. There is no way these kids are getting a proper education while playing football, when you have practices and workouts year round pretty much. And that’s even if the kids care about the education, I would have to figure that most are in it because the NFL says that to be drafted you have to be a certain age.
This stuff has been pretty much institutionalized in football, Miami had this going on all decade and they sucked anyway, what were other schools giving top recruits that was better than the cash, alcohol, sex, mansions and boat rides Miami was offering them? Other schools just haven’t been caught yet but the players are getting wrapped up in this while they are still in high school and you know what, good for them.
I’m going to cheer the hell out of Antonio Dixon this season, I don’t like him any less or any more because of what he did when he was in college.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I don’t care if they took the money. I care that they still plead ignorance and poor me bullshit. If they were asked bluntly about this at the time they would have lied. Why? Because they knew they were violating the rules. Rules blow? Sure they do. I don’t like driving 55 when I can drive 75. But thems the breaks. Schools make money off every aspect of their school: hospitals, law schools, alumni donors, etc. Just because two sports make a lot doesn’t warrant them an entirely different set of rules.
I was in a fraternity with 3 D-I football players. They all went to class, and they all graduated with degrees slightly different than communications and parks & rec management. One got a chemistry Ph.D., one is a computer systems anlayst. If you sign up for a scholarship, you know what you’re getting into and what your obligations are. If you decide that you’ll accept the free food and shelter portion but disown the rest that’s your perogative. But don’t fucking bitch that your used or oppressed. Own up and admit that you just don’t care. Your payment for playing is an opportunity not most people will never have: free access to whatever educational programs you want, plus room, board, materials. This gives you an likelihood for a career and to escape the cycle of poverty far in excess than the chances of you becoming a pro athlete.
If you’re too shortsighted or ignorant to take advantage of this in favor of a car, hookers and blow parties that you know will put all of this in jeopardy, then you deserve to fail. Better yet, don’t even go to school if you don’t want to try. The only way these kids are not getting a proper education is because it’s easy not to try.
Dixon’s a pro now, so I could give a fuck less about him.
by DLawrence55 on Aug 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s all well and good for your fraternity brothers, but how many of them were legitimate NFL prospects who were drafted or saw time on an NFL roster for more than a preseason? There are two types of NCAA players, those who are likely to move on in something other than sports, and those who will be in sports. For those not likely to be in sports as a career the system likely works just fine. But let’s be real, the top NCAA football recruits in the country aren’t looking for a degree, they’re looking to pass time between their first practice and their destiny in the NFL draft, what do they need a degree for when they’re going to make millions playing football? Same with basketball, if anything, one and done players insult the college landscape, we know they’re staying for a year, they know they’re staying for a year, college isn’t going to be taken seriously, it’s dumb that they even have to attend college. That’s how I feel about these players, what the NFL should do is just draft out of highschool and set up a developmental league to pass the time between ages 18 and 20 or so when they physically mature so they can focus on football instead of putting on this show that they pretend about college. But that won’t happen because the NCAA will lose their ratings as all the good players go to the NFL and it becomes based purely on academics with LSU-Monroe being as competitive as Oklahoma, it’s all about the money, not the best interests of the players who have a shot.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I disagree
Usually I agree with mostly everything you say Jason, but I don’t think you’re in a position to judge character. I think you need to look at the context of their situation. The actual kids aren’t the ones to be blamed. It’s the system and those that are willfully breaking it.
These are NOT adults, at least maturity wise. They are 19 year-old kids who have probably been told that they are more special than everyone else since they were 12. And it’s not really their fault. It’s society’s fault for stressing values like status and wealth over more practical things like education and family.
So you’re telling me that if you were a superstar athlete on the Miami squad and some influential millionaire booster came up to you and said
“Hey, what are you doing this weekend? I’m sure there are some cool fraternity parties, but how about you and your friends come to my party where everything will be comped and I’ll make sure that there will be at least three girls for every buddy you bring” that your first thought would be
“Hmm let me think about the future ramifications this may have on both the school and the players who have nothing to do with it?” and not
“Man I can’t wait to get as much pussy as possible”
If so I guess you’re just better than the rest of us. Especially at 19.
Athletes at every school violate NCAA regulations. Even schools like Penn State that have had no major violations in their program’s history.
by mav216 on Aug 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, mega-fail
I don’t normally blame “society” for things that are individual decisions, but I tend to agree with you here.
The lines between what you can and can’t do as a player is not defined well enough. Can they not have friends that are millionaires? Was it only a problem if he was a booster? What if he wasn’t a booster? Do you have to pay for the alcohol you consume (assuming you’re of age)?
It just seems like they say “you can’t benefit from being a player here” but where is the line regarding what “benefits”.
I had friends that had a lot of money at 19. They would buy all sorts of shit for my friends and myself. If I were a college football player, would that have been a violation?
I understand the fact that he is a booster makes this a whole new ball game. But even if he wasn’t booster like, say, a millionaire tattoo shop owner. Would they have been in violation?
Of course, this does NOT excuse the injury bounty or use of hookers. That is on a whole other scale, in which case I agree that every player involve be punished.
"I don’t know whether I prefer Astroturf to grass. I never smoked Astroturf." - Joe Namath
“The actual kids aren’t the ones to be blamed. It’s the system and those that are willfully breaking it.”
The kids are among the ones breaking it!
And like I said before, yes I would have considered the consequences of my actions, even at 19. I don’t really see how that is so hard to believe or so outrageous to expect of a 19 year old.
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And like I said before, don’t take any of this to mean that schools, coaches, boosters etc aren’t to blame as well. They absolutely are, maybe even moreso than the players. But I just don’t buy this line that the players are just doing what anyone would do or that they are somehow victims.
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the players aren’t victims by any means, but boo-hooing them is the wrong way to go about it, especially when you haven’t been in their same position.
It’s like the Tiger Woods incident. Sure, you can say you would never cheat on Elin all you want. Any maybe you wouldn’t. But you aren’t a billionaire American icon who has women throwing themselves at you. And you never will be. Talk is cheap. And in this instance, because you’ve never been in their position, it just seems like you’re writing this atop your horse.
They aren’t victims by any means, but they are the product of a system that leads them to these decisions in the first place
by mav216 on Aug 17, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Being a billionaire icon does not justify adultery, just like coming from a poor family does not justify what these players did. These actions are still wrong and immoral. I’m sure there are plenty of players who turned down these benefits just like I’m sure there are plenty of billionaires who remain faithful to their wives. It’s a choice.
by Eaglesadvocate on Aug 17, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. You can’t say what you would or wouldn’t do until you are put in the same position.
It’s nice to say you wouldn’t take money. But until you are a poor 19 year old who is getting money thrown at them like they have never seen for playing sports, you can’t really say you wouldn’t have taken it.
I don’t really blame the players. I blame the administration for not policing their program better. They should not have allowed their kids to be placed in these situations.
But once again it wasn’t just money. It was strip clubs and parties on yachts. That’s different than just taking cash to pay the bills.
by Eaglesadvocate on Aug 17, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are saying, as a horny 19 year old, you would turn down strip clubs and yacht parties, especially if someone told you it was allowed (which I am sure the booster did at some point) or at least that you wouldn’t get caught?
I don’t really see the difference between cash and parties. College kids don’t really have ‘bills’ per say, they would just use the money for fun. The parties accomplish the same goals.
In your original comment, you said imagine if I were a poor 19 year old having money thrown at me. In that case, getting VIP access to a strip club would not do me as much good as money.
And I honestly don’t know what I would do in that situation. It would depend on how many of my team mates were doing the same thing, and how much of a blind eye I thought the coaches were turning toward it.
by Eaglesadvocate on Aug 17, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
In your original comment, you said imagine if I were a poor 19 year old having money thrown at me. In that case, getting VIP access to a strip club would not do me as much good as money.
True, but these kids want to have fun as well. If they can get something like that for free, its almost as good as money. I see your point though.
I do agree it would’ve been extremely tempting. Especially depending the culture of the locker room and all that. If they knew coaches didn’t look twice at this stuff, then it doesn’t surprise me they took advantage of it.
by Eaglesadvocate on Aug 17, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
By those that are willfully breaking it, I meant the boosters. Those are the ones with the actual money, power and influence who are inciting the incidents
by mav216 on Aug 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So when a teacher is caught with a student.. the student is at fault??
That is just like blaming the students for millionaire Boosters and/or “Fans” that want to be close to a start athlete or a winning program so they exploit 18 19 yr old kids… Want to get the culprit, follow the money
Once boosters are caught, I’m pretty sure they can’t have any more contact with a team. But this may just be wishful thinking
but there will always be a new booster to step up
And just because that person can’t have official contact, doesn’t mean they aren’t still funneling funds illegally.
That’s true. But the kids that are next in line need to look at the guys in front that fell before they stick their hands out.
Look at Avant. He grew up in Back of the Yards or Englewood or some shitty part of Chicago. Poor and dodging bullets. He very well could have slipped at Michigan. He wasn’t even all that religious when he first got there. It can be done.
Bear with with me here:
If a 30 year old man consensually sleeps with a 17 year-old girl, it’s considered rape. In no, way, shape, or form would she not be considered the victim. This is because at 17, society does not deem you “mature” enough to make your own adult decisions. The second you turn 18, however, everything changes except one thing: maturity level.
These 18-19 year old kids are not much more mature than when they were 17. When more powerful, wealthy people persuade them to do things that any 18 or 10 year old has only dreamed of, how can we say that they are all mature enough to make the right decision?
It be argued that the players are victims and were completely taken advantage of.
"I don’t know whether I prefer Astroturf to grass. I never smoked Astroturf." - Joe Namath
I would bet that your life and the way you were conditioned to think before you turned 19 was vastly different than the lives and conditioning of ‘athletes who attend a school.’ Your world is not their world.
I could be wrong, but I would assume that: You weren’t courted by colleges in junior high. You weren’t told that your athleticism was ‘your ticket.’ You weren’t given a free pass in the classroom.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
There's a huge difference between schools like Miami and Penn State
I’ve been a Penn State fan all my life. 35 years. They’ve had 1 coach and 0 violations. That is not an accident, or even fluky luck. They have a strong coach who is not afraid of enforcing the rules, even though he is one of the most outspoken critics of them. You fuck up at State, you are gone. Before the ‘97 or ’98 Citrus Bowl against Florida he didn’t pretend he didn’t know about Curt Enis getting a suit from an agent, or that Joe Jurevicius was academically ineligible to play them. they were out. Same with Phil Taylor.
A lot Penn State’s success is due to the fact that they identify high character players and develop this. If you fall behind, you get left behind.
It’s easy for schools to follow the rules; everyone in supervisory postions know them. Unfortunately, they prefer to break them because that’s even easier
Penn State is simply one of the best disciplinary teams. Clearly someone at Miami and OSU knew what was going on. PSU has a no bullshit policy. BUT… that still doesn’t mean there are NO violations. It just means they aren’t willing to put up with those players no matter how talented they are.
They have some sort of "Paper Trial"
Its hard to be relevant with the big names school if your not playing by the same rules.Its like the Steriod era in Baseball alot of ppl did it to stay relevant
The Penn State comparison is bull shit.
Have you ever been to Penn State University Park? I would think you have if you have been a fan that long. There is literally NOTHING for 3 hours in any direction. Its no wonder PSU has a tight ship; they literally have nothing else to do with their time. Even if they made a conscious effort to get into trouble they would have a hard time because there’s simply no outlets for it. Even the ‘town’ next to campus is just apartment complexes for students. There sure as hell isn’t any strip joints or night club.s
Its really not fair to compare that to one of the most happening places in the country. In Miami, temptation is everywhere. Ever been to SoBe? You can just feel the trouble the second you get out of the cab. There’s a lot of bad people there who are hoping you let your gaurd down for a split second so they can take advantage of you. And for guys who mostly grew up on the street hoping to one day make it big, it should come as no surprise that their judgement was compromised when a shady character offered them a ride on his yacht.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
At 19
You are a adult period. Can you vote at this age yes. Can you serve in the military at this age yes you can. Thoose right there are two choices that require more from a young person than anything that the players have faced inregards to this scandal.
Its just fine for Donna Shalala to take that check but I dont want to see you accepting rims from him!
If this story was about (nearly) any other school people wouldnt be piling on nearly this much. But its about the U… Thug U so people want to make it the downfall of society. Devin Hester accepting a set of rims and 3K for an engagement ring… A 19 year old kid who has both parents die taking 50K… hell, the most surprising part of the story to me is that it wasnt more.
The true villians in this story… the NCAA and Yahoo Sports, F you for giving this guy the attention that he has always craved.
VOID!!!
So now Yahoo! is at fault for doing investigative reporting, and doing their job damned well?
You’re out of your mind.
How is Yahoo! at fault?
Investigative reporting is bad all of the sudden? I guess Woodward and Bernstein were real assholes too huh? They should have just left well enough alone.
How about shame on the university for not policing themselves better?
True, but honestly, what could the NFL possibly do? This is the NCAA’s issue, not the NFL’s. I know that some people (like Merrill Hoge) have talked about suspending players in the NFL (or, in the case of players like Pryor, making them ineligible for the draft for a year), but that’s not going to happen.
The University deserves to be punished most of all, since it’s their job to supervise these kids and make sure they’re not doing things like this. The U failed in so many ways, and will be severely punished, and deservedly so.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Well, I don’t know that it would be up to the NFL. I’m not sure how these guys should be held accountable.
Beyond people thinking less of them, I’m not sure if there’s anything you can do.
If they went to a public school and their actions cost that school and the taxpayers money… there might be something there. I dunno.
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You can only watch someone so far
It’s like being a parent. You can supervise your children as much as you want but they will still find some “free time” to do whatever they want……right or wrong. And as a parent you can be held accountable for them.
It’s not all on the school here, the players have to have some responsibility and it’s a shame that they will never be punished for any of this.
What 18 or 19 year old kid would seriously say no to all those gifts?
would you? easy to say no when you’re not being offered them
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Hell yeah I would, especially if it was already a part of the culture of the school.
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If I made a pledge not to and knew that if I did I would be screwing over my teammates, my university, my fellow students and my fans?
Yeah, I would say no.
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When you were 18 year old kid and someone gave you a mercedes you would say no?
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Yes because no one just gives an 18 year old a mercedes out of the goodness of their heart. People have agendas and ulterior motives.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
And you think 18 year olds care about that? All they see is a new friggin car.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll repeat
If I made a pledge not to and knew that if I did I would be screwing over my teammates, my university, my fellow students and my fans?
Yeah, I would say no.
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I'd say no too
It’s not difficult at all. It’s knowing right and wrong and apparently some people just don’t get it in life.
I think this is where the problem lies. Of the list of who is being screwed over here, nearly all are complicit in the action. The teammates were at the minimum turning a blind eye, at the most they were encouraging each other. The university seems to be very knowledgeable about these actions. The students and fans were at least enjoying things, until now…
That’s a fair point. Again, I don’t think it excuses the kids here, but it is a very fair point to make.
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agreed, no excuse at all… and it makes me fear for the death penalty. If problems are allowed to persist ( or even encouraged) at this level and depth, I could see the NCAA just dis-allowing he program for a few years.
I agree with you that the kids are making some big mistakes, but there are some adults that were preying on the likelihood of these kids to make short term decisions, and those adults are put in place to protect them. This isnt a case of kids in their spare time, this is a case of the wardens encouraging some really bad stuff.
If they can prove Shalala was involved (which I highly doubt) then the DP is a given. If not, I think the NCAA will realize that most of the people involved are no longer affiliated with the school and let them off with a postseason ban and lose of schollies.
You have to keep in mind that the NCAA is not bound by precedent.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of these kids came from nothing so of course it would be hard for them to turn it down…I know I wouldn’t of being honest
by jjrome on Aug 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You're a better man than me.
Rolle got $40,00 IN CASH to go along with hookers and yachts. Shit, you don’t want to know what I’d do for $40K NOW and I’m a grown-ass man. It’s easy to be moral when you’re not being tempted, Jason.
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the problem… They are being “tempted” to do something they know is wrong, they know will have negative affects on people that trust them and they know is something that they pledged not to do… but because it’s “tempting” we should excuse it?
How does this being tempting invalidate anything? It’s wrong either way. They’re wrong for doing it.
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Who said they were right?
They knew it was wrong, or at least they knew they were breaking the rules. They didn’t care. Or they decided the risk was worth the reward. Or they got sick of watching millions of dollars flow to the university and coaches while they were eating rice and beans three nights a week and decided they deserved a cut. But “I took a pledge” is mighty cold comfort when somebody is handing you a Rolex and three strippers.
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, again. Strippers aren’t feeding your family. That’s simply a lack character and it reflects poorly on those guys. That’s all I’m saying.
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So the players, at least in some instances, are dirtbags. So what?
No one is pretending otherwise. At least, no one except for you in service to this argument.
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure they are! Tons of people are. Tons of people are saying they’re just taking the payment they deserve or that they’re all victims somehow.
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Lots of people are saying these poor players were from poor families and just needed money because of how hard their lives were.
I don’t see how yacht parties and hookers help families though.
The parties I might not have said no.
The money definitely would have given me pause as enticing as it would be. The hookers I wouldn’t touch. Why in the hell does a college football player need a hooker? Sorority girls aren’t STD filled enough for them?I don’t know about other 18 year olds, but I did have a functioning brain and understood that actions have consequences. Maybe the rules aren’t being made clear enough, but I find it hard to believe these players thought everything going on was A-OK.
So?
There are a lot of football players that manage to not break the rules and they probably were coddled since high school too. How did they manage to have morals when these other guys didn’t?
And not having the rules apply in high-school is very different than in college and I find it very hard to believe these players can’t comprehend that.
Because hookers will toss the salad?
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Why in the hell does a college football player need a hooker?
This is a fantastic point. All the football players at the U need to do to get laid is go to a frat party and unzip their pants.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
These guys are coming from the ghetto, a lot of them have had hard ass lives. Are we really blaming them for taking money and gifts when its waved in front of their faces? And are we seriously faulting Antonio Dixon? Dixon went to a club and got dinner.
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give me a nice car to roll around in, nice dinners, bling whatever
i would do it too and i didnt even come from a poor family lol
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Well what if you pledged not to and you knew that by doing so, you’d screw over a bunch of people who placed their trust in you?
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I don’t understand this whole screwing over the people who placed their trust in you argument. Who is placing their trust in these players?
The players are giving scholarships on a year to year basis. You suck for a year, you could have your scholarship pulled for a better. Your coach wants to leave, you have few options outside of sitting out a whole year (if you are allowed to leave). The schools have little loyalty to the players. I am sure they care little about their fans/students, especially at the bigger schools. By the time they get caught, they and their teammates are usually gone and will feel no effects of the penalties.
Can you elaborate a bit more on this trust argument?
I can't speak for Jason, but you'd like to think you can trust your teammates not to fuck you over.
They were risking doing just that with all this.
Like I said, most of the punishments come on the school long after these players and their teammates are gone. I am not sure any of the players from 5 years ago feels any loyalty to the players now.
Or, you just pull a Cam Newton and take some money and not go there or transfer.
It's true that most punishments come years later, but if they were exposed in real time their teammates would very much be punished.
It is suggested that there are current players (seniors) that were involved. If a punishment is handed down this season than those current players will have screwed over active teammates.
US congress men take all kinds of pledges, and they still screw you over and go back on their word. I see no difference.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, I don’t see how growing up in a ghetto means that lying, breaking your word, and screwing over people that helped you is ok.
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Coming from the ghetto
pretty weak excuse. It’s about right or wrong in this case and knowingly screwing over your teamates who most are probably decent friends as well.
I teach in the ghetto...
those kids have nothing… most of them live with one guardian (mom or grandmother) in a small house where they either get their meals from a box or gas station. nobody is saying that it’s right, but when some is presented diamonds when all they know is plastic, the temptation is so much stronger.
by awd777 on Aug 17, 2011 3:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look, no one ever said it was easy. I recognize that it’s difficult.
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I grew up poor, and I wouldn’t have thought twice about taking the money. Ok, I would have thought twice, but still would have taken it. No one here knows what Rolle or any other of the guys spent that money on.
Byahhh!
by begforme4484 on Aug 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, for one, we know it wasn’t all money. We know it was parties and strippers and yacht rides etc. That stuff sure isn’t helping to feed your poor family.
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I say I’d take the money now, but if I were in their position, maybe I’d value my free ride to college much more. I don’t know.
I most definitely wouldn’t accept strippers, club VIP passes, yacht rides, etc etc. I think that stuff is more indicative of their character than accepting money itself.
Byahhh!
by begforme4484 on Aug 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree and it’s also true that by accepting these things, they’re putting their careers at risk as well. If you’re a freshman and you get caught… you’re kicked out of school and banned from playing in the NCAA again. At that point, no NFL team is ever going to look at you.
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When you have a big business
That is biased around Teen-age clients, you will always have mistakes.. Lets be real.
Might I add
Teen-age Clients that dont see ANY of the revune in which they generate but they do get a “Free education” that may OR may not lead to a job.
Why is “free education” in quotes? It’s literally free. They do not have to pay money.
And no degree ensures you a job, but the unemployment rate among college grades is about %15-%18 lower than non college grads. So lets not act like a free education is so bad.
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Its free because the University is banking on making money off said student. Any Scholarship is given with the thought that said student will become successful (sports or Books) = money. So lets not act like the UNIVERSITIES greed isnt the thing that created this beast in the first place not the 18 or 19 yr old that wants to get his or her rocks off.
It's just sad that you think this way
Sure the University may be thinking this way. But the student is still getting the free education. Why can’t you see that?
Education shouldnt have a Cost
Why cant you see that. And when they are making money off the students which directly helps the school then why should players get a taste? Not saying go on yacht’s and do blow off stippers back side (dont know if that happened but here’s to wondering) either.
Again, the players are getting a “taste” to the tune of a $40k+ a year scholarship that they wouldn’t have previously been able to afford. They’re getting a “taste” through the ability to show their skills off to NFL teams week and week out.
And regardless, this is missing the point. Like I said in the article, if you want to pay players a stipend to make things easier on them, fine. I’m ok with that. But if you’re the kind of guy that doesn’t mind lying and screwing people over because you like doing blow of hookers and sleeping on yachts because you hit someone late, I don’t think some spending money will change that.
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the "love of money" is the root of all evil...
a business or franchise can run a legitimate program without making poor choices… there are many colleges and universities that had success honestly
by awd777 on Aug 17, 2011 3:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dont call the free education a perk until it is actually required to educate. The courses that are for football players only have to go. These guys need to take the same courses as normal students and pass before this can be called an education. At most big football schools, every effort is taken to keep the grades inflated so the athlete-student can stay on the field.
I agree. I do think all players have the opportunity to get a good education if they want it.. but I agree that no school should be allowing them to slide through class just to say on the football field. That’s certainly doing the kid a disservice.
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What I see
is loud mouth ghetto wanna be, been coddled the second someone saw star potential thug ass teenaged kids at the university at the miami…and i would NEVER see anyone of them turning down gifts.. These kids are NOT going or the education, even if it’s free. There’s a lot of rich well of white kids that get their parents to pay or the college and they still fuck it up.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
by Joe_D on Aug 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, the school is making an investment in the student. By the way, they do this with kids who are outstanding academics as well. I don’t see that as wrong.
Look, I get that there’s a whole system here that’s created this. The schools are profiting from it, TV networks, fans that want to see schools win at all costs, the media…. We’re all part of the system that created this beast.
However, that doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. The players are wrong for doing it. The school is wrong for condoning it .
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I’m not saying college are charities, they are non-profit, but they’re not charities. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a school expecting to get some value back for their giving you free tuition. I think that’s quite fair.
You aren’t entitled to a college education.
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And thats why we see the things happening
You aren’t entitled to a college education. Thats the type of thinking that gets these Young Kids from low income households who gets the opprotunity to attend a “Big Time” college and dont give a F*&@ about the rules or the tradition becuase the simple fact that they arent “Entitled to a college education”. EVERYBODY should be entitled to a chance to get a college education just not the guarentee of success. This whole systems is curropt and if you want to hold one part accountable then they need to rework all of college athletics because its all in the shitter in terms of “Morals”
Damn...
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So what?
You may think that the “free education” is value-less. But nobody else is going to give them anything at all. The NFL doesn’t want them. The UFL doesn’t want them. Maybe the CFL wants them? If you have something to sell, and there’s only one buyer for it, you’re not going to get a price you’re happy with.
The “free education” is valueless. Miamis a pretty good school (47th best University in the nation). I came from a well regarded high school in which I got pretty good grades, and I still had a tough time there last year.
Do you really think some kid from the projects, who probably stopped going to class 2 weeks into 9th grade, is going to get anything of value from going to class? All the information is going to go right over their heads unless their taking something like philosophy 101, in which case the information won’t help them at all. Can you honestly say that the majority of the kids who don’t cut it in the pros are going to get a job with the education they got from the U? FUCK NO, they’re gonna end up as a bouncer at a bar, and that’s if they’re lucky.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What about the kids who don’t make the NFL and aren’t viable candidates for college, but who are used by the NCAA to generate huge revenue by playing a dangerous game?
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
What do you mean “aren’t viable candidates for college?”
All of these kids are being offered a free education, which if they take full advantage of will serve them well in life. Let’s not act like they’re not being paid anything. Tuition at some of these schools is $40K+ a year. Many of these kids couldn’t afford that otherwise.
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Oh come on
Do you really think Willis Mcgahee Sean Taylor (who BARELY BARELY passed high school) are looking at it that way?
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Shame on them if they aren’t. That’s my point. They are bad people if that’s how they see it.
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Then you’re looking at a REALLY high percentage of the NFL that are bad people IMO
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
JasonB is right here
just because someone barely passed high school doesn’t mean they don’t understand what their doing out there in life. They still took the bling, money, free rides, etc. KNOWING THAT IT WAS WRONG!
of courose hes right
but hes not being real,and like another poster mentioned, in reality its the universities greed if anything
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
But the student still gets the free education
Sure the University is making money of the STUDENT/ATHLETE but they are reinvesting that money into the sports there at the school and into the school itself. So it’s still in the long run going back to the students.
They’re just making selfish idiotic decisions.
Fact is, these are all non-profit institutions. All the money goes back into the school in some way, shape or form.
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If success of sports program = increased enrollment = job security, earning of higher salaries and receiving bonuses, then there’s profit.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Yes, they benefit from sports success clearly.
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Let me get this straight...
You think someone is a bad person based on their desire not to have a college education?
Wow. Just wow.
Well, your problem is you didn't get it straight
When an athlete signs on to a school to play for that school (and receive a full paid education for doing so), and they don’t give two shits about the education they’re receiving – yeah, that’s kind of wrong.
Education is one of the most important components of a structured society. And it’s an invaluable tool.
I think you aren't quite catching onto what Jason is saying.
These guys should be able to see that a free education is a valuable thing. I don’t know that I would say they are bad for not valuing the opportunity given to them, but I would say it’s a misguided and pretty terrible attitude yea.
I'm with Jason, just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't.
I don’t see what’s wrong with calling these guys out.
You have to differentiate between ‘student-athletes’ and ‘athletes who attend a school.’ if you’re not academically prepared for college, you cannot take advantage of the education that’s being offered. If you have low-level reading skills, you cannot succeed in college academics.
The universities know that for ‘athletes who attend a school,’ college is non-beneficial, if those athletes do not become pros. Yet, the universities are willing to risk the well-being of those athletes for financial gain, while seeking to exclude the athletes from receiving any tangible reward.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Well look, I don’t think anyone is saying the colleges themselves are blameless here. My point was that I don’t excuse the players, but I’m certainly not going to say that these schools aren’t complicit as well. There’s blame to go around for all sides.
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The university should be the responsible party in all of this. They’ve been running the same game for a long time.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
All parties should be equally responsible
the key word you used was “responsible”. Saying one side is more responsible than the other perpetuates excuses and victimization. The university should be responsible for setting up a system that values the rules structure, and the athletes should be responsible for their own decisions and actions.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah
The system is flawed. The kids are being pimped by the universities.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
by KByars on Aug 17, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And they receive tangible benfits
from that pimping. They just want more. They should be responsible for their own actions.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no denying that some players receive tangible benefits, but many do not.
Student-athletes are governed by an unfair rule-set. The defiance of unfair rules is not irresponsible; it’s the most American thing that someone can do.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Whether or not you are prepared to receive it I can't get behind the notion that free education, food and housing is "no tangible benefit".
As someone who is in some serious debt thanks to college, I can say that a free ride to school would have been tangible as all hell.
Presumably, you were academically prepared for that coursework. If you were unable to do the coursework, what benefit would you have received from those classes?
Food and housing has to go along with that package, because the rules effectively do not allow the players to earn money.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
As I said, prepared to receive it or not, it is a tangible benefit.
With that tuition comes tutors for one thing, should the player actually wish to take his chance at education seriously. College athletes are often given very long leashes when it comes to classes and if they choose to take advantage of the free education they can work themselves into preparedness to receive the benefit of that free tuition.
And free food and free housing isn’t tangible (not to mention everything that comes with being a college student)? Just because it comes along with the tuition it doesn’t “count” or something?
Allow me to rephrase, because I don’t think we’re on the same page with our definitions of academically prepared. If I took a below-average middle-schooler and placed them in a college class, would they be able to function well enough to benefit from the experience?
Room and board are benefits so to speak, but they are offset by the rules, which restrict the players from earning money. It’s a give with one hand, take away with the other sort of deal.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
I get that the system itself is broken.
The fact is that most of these kids have no business being admitted into these colleges in the first place. And there are loads and loads of rules that restrict these players from making their own money (not to mention the time constraints they face due to practice). However, unfortunately for them this is the required path to an NFL career. They know that to make it to the NFL they have to go to school. This is not some secret. These kids are being given a free path to a very lucrative career, so prepared to receive the benefit of it or not there is some tangibility to it.
Is the system exploitative? Of course, most of these guys never make it to the NFL after all. But even if you come into college with a middle-school education level (realistically) the system is set up to make sure big sport athletes succeed. There is no reason a player shouldn’t look to take advantage of his situation and actually learn something useful while in college.
Think about it: you’re saying a good amount of these guys aren’t remotely prepared for college level classes. Fair enough (as that is most certainly true), yet somehow they continue to stay academically eligible anyway. If, instead of taking their automatic C- and coasting, they took their free education and used it wisely they might have a degree worth a damn just in case the exploitative system fucks them over. And while athletes can’t earn money, therefore making free room and board a necessity, many many students borrow money to pay for tuition while working to pay for room and board. It’s not like normal college students necessarily have some huge advantage (financially speaking) that would theoretically nullify the benefit of free room and board that athletes get.
Ugh. Now it’s late and my brain is tired. I’m not even sure any of this makes sense now.
Not allowing athletes
to party on yachts with booze, drugs, and hookers is un-American?
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
well fucking said
Team Greg Jones
Team JPP
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 17, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
great article
I think your spot-on about this issue. While it is clear that NCAA athletes need to get paid it doesnt excuse the miami players actions. I havent read everything that they have done but if its as bad as Ive been hearing it is completely and 100% wrong.
Also, what does this mean for the Miami program. I was listening to Pat Forde today and if it is truly as bad as we are hearing he said dont be surprised if they got the death penalty.
Ag-gres-sive: 1. Ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggression; 2. Pursuing one's aims and interests forcefully, sometimes unduly so; 3. THE EAGLES FRONT OFFICE
“I can tell you what I think is going to happen,” Shapiro told Miami television station WFOR from federal prison in Atlanta. “Death penalty.”
This could be SMU all over again.
Ag-gres-sive: 1. Ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggression; 2. Pursuing one's aims and interests forcefully, sometimes unduly so; 3. THE EAGLES FRONT OFFICE
by Mr.electric10 on Aug 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It all depends on what can be proved. If if can be proved that the school president Donna Shalala knew about this, they the DP is a sure thing. If the upper level people (school pres, AD, head football coach) can prove that they knew nothing of it, then a postseason ban and lose of schollies will probably be the consequence.
Keep in mind that the NCAA is not bound by precedent, so just because USC got a very harsh punishment for something much less sever, doesn’t mean the U will get punished comparably, if that makes any sense.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be one thing
If the players said “We aren’t playing for your school unless you give us money”. But when they’re offered the money by boosters/department “reps”, who have even more of a commitment to the school and a mission to enforce the NCAA compliance rules, you’re talking about a form of entrapment. Some of these players come from miserable financial situations, and if they get injured, their professional dreams and college scholarships go out the window.
I agree with the overarching moralism; I wish that crimes didn’t happen beecause people realize that crimes are bad and affect other people. But on an individual basis, players have to do what’s best for themsleves, not the univesity.
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First, no their scholarships are not out the window. If a player gets injured, he still gets to finish his education.
And frankly, I don’t buy the argument about them maybe getting hurt… Taking a free TV or a dinner isn’t improving your financial situation in any real way. Not in the way getting a college degree would at least.
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From what I gathered, D-1 scholarships are essentially 1-year contracts; if you’re injured and can’t rejoin the team the next year, your scholarship won’t be renewed. Maybe individual schools have different individual policies. I would really appreciate info to the contrary, lest I speak incorrectly.
Can’t argue the second point; the lower-level gifts are pretty inexcusable since they are a non-gainful violation of the rules; whether those rules are legit or actually address a problem of influential compensation is another argument.
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I have no doubt that individual schools have different policies. I didn’t mean to imply that it was illegal to revoke a scholarship due to injury.
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I know that the NCAA has medical hardship provisions which allow a school to honor a scholarship commitment to a player without that scholarship counting against the schools’ limit by the NCAA.
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I did know that, actually. Sorry for speaking in such generalities; I know your heart is in the right place. I just think the Shapiro/“blind-eye” university side is MUCH more complicit in this than the players.
Anyone can Google search this as I did, but at least the NCAA is considering multi-year scholarships: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/schooled_in_sports/2011/08/ncaa_full-cost_multi-year_athletic_scholarships_possible.html
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And I have no doubt that there are cases of kids getting hurt and having their scholarships dropped and that’s terrible.
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It's not strict policy to keep players on that were injured, but most colleges do
It’s an inherent, legal recruiting advantage for a school to say, ’We’re committed to you for four years, regardless of what happens.’
Why wouldn’t they take advantage of that opportunity?
Corruption begets corruption
It would be one thing if Shapiro acted alone and was just showering players with these gifts. but that is not the case. Coaches and Athletic department staffers—trained/swearing to uphold an atmosphere of NCAA compliance—were involved. That is dirty. I agree that the players shouldn’t have taken anything, but it all starts at the top and the U had an obligation to set a standard/culture of NCAA compliance and did not. They let this guy hang around for years, inviting him to functions, and pairing him up with student-athlete “mentees.” At the very least, the U should have known about this guy—they probably knew things were going on but “didnt want to know.” At most, BBall Head Coach Frank Haith and football assistants arranged for Shapiro to pay recruits. Corruption begets corruption.
If as many people in the athletic department knew about it as Shapiro claims, then the department essentially said to the players that cheating is OK. Coaches attend the same compliance meetings as players. The leaders and paid professionals (the AD, coaches, staffers) set the standard way too low for me to judge. They introduced Shapiro into the lives of student-athletes and kept doing it for 8 years. Any coincidence that Miami’s ex-AD abruptly resigned in February to take over at Texas Tech? Unfortunately, people like Al Golden and innocent recruits/freshman can’t leave so easily.
by wake forest matt on Aug 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
They get a free education,
as long as they make the team . What happens if they get hurt or circumstances dictate that they can’t play anymore. I highly doubt the school will let them keep there scholarships. With that in mind, it makes it easier to see why they’d take gifts from someone.
I believe most colleges do honor their scholarships even if a player is injured.
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I'm not in college on a sports scholarship so I wouldn't know firsthand.
I have a friend who got in on a football scholarship, broke his arm and had the college tell him that his scholarship would be revoked if he couldn’t play next season.
by nyeaglesfan624 on Aug 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That would really suck. I’m sure it’s on a school by school basis. I would say that a school revoking a scholarship because of injury is inexcusable.
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See, I can see taking money in those situations.
But you will never convince me that hookers and strip clubs have anything to do with the tenuous position of their financial situation.
Shapiro
Is nobody trying to figure out why Shapiro is coming out with this? Thought he might as well F* over Miami from jail? How is he not be villainized in this story for his actions.
Also, if you waive $40k, unattached, in front of my face and my family has financial troubles, I’m taking that money.
Book deal
He’s working on one now; hoping to get that sweet Canseco “sell out your former colleagues” money
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Justice system
It’s a crying shame if he gets to keep any of that money.
Yea, It’s like hackers hacking into government agencies, then getting contracts to run security for those agencies.
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Most of it will probably
go towards paying off his creditors from the Ponzi scheme he ran.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He won’t. He owes something like $87 million and has none of it. His reason for writing the book is to help pay some of it back, not to screw Miami over even more than he already has.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, not villainized because he is cooperating fully with the investigation, but any other media outlet will be sure to let you know he is a convicted felon, and anyone defending Miami will use this as a character attack (eve nthough the two issues are separate).
And yea, he pretty much said he went to former Miami players, asking for financial help during his legal troubles, and was largely (or completely) ignored, so yea, a little spite added in for flavor.
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He said
he felt betrayed by the players, because they weren’t there for him when he needed help. Shocker, I know.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Either he is continuing to bullshit everyone, or he is ridiculously naive.
Exactly
nerdy rich kid thinks the athletes are his friends ‘cuse he holds his hands out and they all come running. Then when he need shelp, it’s crickets in the background. I’ve seen that movie before.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He is pissed at all the players he helped.
When the shit hit the fan for him and he went to prison, he didn’t hear from anyone when he reached out for help. So now he’s getting revenge. Not exactly a nice reason to do this, but it doesn’t make it not true. Mobsters and murder accomplices sell out people all the time for similar reasons; just because it’s scuzzy doesn’t make it untrue.
Cultural issues run deeper
It’s not a simple case of morals or ethics here. College players take money for many reasons. Poorer communities often make money a bigger status symbol than richer ones. I guess because wealth is all the more uncommon. Further, people are more likely to act “badly” when the group is. Most big schools (obv. Miami, but it seems more pervasive) have a culture of corruption that makes it very easy for players to join in. There is also entitledness, based on athletic ability. That entitledness would have started in high school, where the kids started getting favorable treatment based soley on athletics and not character. The fact that universities make all the money from athletes’ work just serves as a convenient justification for corruption. To me, it all adds up to one logical conclusion. Corruption is the norm at the big schools and the few students who refuse it are the exceptions.
As a side note- Universities should be regulated so that college sports are not a multi-billion dollar industry. The only way to “fix” college sports is to make the market go away. I’m not saying take sports away, but universities should be heavily restricted on how much they can profit. That way, big schools have to put education first and there’s not tons of money being thrown around to tempt students. I know some of the money comes from agents and boosters- i.e., people outside of the university-driven market. basically, the NFL market. But NFL money, through agents, is the only problem, then that is a managable problem. As is, the NCAA corruption is not even managable.
by PeaceVT on Aug 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
There will always be a market.
We’re talking about people with marketable skills. Unless you take football off television or stop keeping score, someone will pay for those skills. That’s no different than a talented writer or computer programer. The difference is that if you’re an athlete, you can’t profit from your own skills while another student, even those on scholarship, can.
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, as long as it’s on TV… someone will make billions off it.
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In theory
The government could tax TV rights for college sports so that Universities don’t get the windfall. Like I say below, that would be so unpopular that it will never happen. We are pretty much stuck with a culture of corruption because players can’t get paid and the NCAA can’t possible monitor it all.
True, but we do want Universities to get that money… It does benefit all the students in the end, or at least it should.
Really, we just need better and more honest people in charge. That may be overly idealistic, but it is the most obvious solution.
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One feasible approach
Is to make students keep a detailed log of all their finances and recreational activities. The punishment for falsifying the reports could be to lose eligibility. You actually run into constitutional rights to provacy there. But the the NCAA could require it as gaining the privilege (not right) to be an NCAA athlete.
Well, that’s already the punishment…
But, you know, if I’m the IRS and I read that Antrel Rolle got $40K for something and didn’t report it… I might have some questions.
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I don't know how feasible that is.
Assuming you can get college students to keep detailed records and retain all their receipts, you’d need a massive bureaucracy to check up on them. You’d need something like the IRS that could compare income with expenditures and, since we’re talking about people who are living at home, a lot of their income comes from family. Are we going to make parents and grandparents keep those records too? It immediately gets too big to be reasonable. But it is one hell of a jobs program. Obama could knock the unemployment rate down by 2% in the SEC alone.
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Obama's new job creation platform!
He would definitely make up ground in red states; ironically, the same types who typically complain about bureaucracy
If you like what I have to say here, visit my blog for more (http://dehype.posterous.com)
The costs would be huge
But when I think of policies that have worked in other areas, self reporting has the best track record I know of.
I think it's an interesting idea, but let's play with it.
Let’s say I’m a stud player for Miami. My parents come to the game and take me to dinner afterward. Obviously, that’s allowed. But what if they take my friends? What if my friends are all football players, which would be expected right after a game? Would my friends have to disclose the benefit? Would they have to pay for their own meals? What if my father hands me $500 and I pay the check? What if I’m a scrub but I hang out with starters? What if I’m not on the team, but my roommates are; can my father take us to dinner then?
by Tracer Bullet on Aug 17, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I love this line of questioning
Please apply to the NCAA Competition Committee
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A huge issue
My grandfather once took my dad and couple of buddys of his to dinner after a game but because my grandfather went to that school he is technically a booster and could in theory get in trouble. The system is so fucked up
Ag-gres-sive: 1. Ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggression; 2. Pursuing one's aims and interests forcefully, sometimes unduly so; 3. THE EAGLES FRONT OFFICE
by Mr.electric10 on Aug 17, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
About regulating university profits
To further explain what I mean:
1. Two fundamental problems: first, there is too much money in college sports and none is allowed to go to players and second, the NCAA cannot possibly monitor and enforce compliance because of the gigantic costs in terms of time and money.
2. Reducing the promenience of college sports by capping the market would chill the demand for corruption that is created.
3. This would be so unpopular that it would never happen.
4. Since it would never happen, we are left with this: corruption continues and most goes unnotticed or unknown to the media. The NCAA chases down a few high-profile cases to make examples out of schools but hundreds more get away with it. This is not uncommon in regulation and law enforcement. For example, violations of environmental laws are unnoticed far more often than they are punished.
I think finding some way to hold players accountable would help. Because as it stands, they basically aren’t. It’s an odd thing where everyone but the person actually responsible for the transgression is held accountable for it.
Now, if they get caught while in school they can be kicked out and not allowed to play anywhere and that’s certainly a risk… but if these guys graduate or get drafted it’s like they’re home free. Maybe that shouldn’t be the case.
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What would you propose as a punishment?
NFL players laugh at fines (see: Moss, Randy; Harrison, James), so a monetary hit doesn’t really do anything to them. And how can you suspend a player for actions violating college rules? I think this is a great idea; just curious how this would be implemented
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That’s the thing. I really don’t know.
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Strict punishment isn't enough
Because the NCAA still can’t catch most offenders. Jason mentioned the IRS and they have the same problem. Most people who cheat taxes get away with it and the IRS can’t afford to find them and punish them.
I wouldn;t expect you to know a way Jason. The IRS, EPA, and noble prize winning economists also don’t know.
As an anthropology major...
I couldn’t have said it better, very nice. Its another perspective we have to keep in mind, but we also need to remember that these students broke a contract, and while their breach of this contract is understandable, its not excusable.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
While I agree JasonB,
Something else needs to be said about the coaches, athletic directors, and even the parents (parents who took gifts) involved in this. They failed these kids. The fact they knew they were hanging out with this guy, that he was giving gifts, and no one did anything to keep these kids away from him is ridiculous.
I can understand that these young men were adults and should have strong enough character to stay the hell away from this as much as possible but they are 18-19 year old young men who are hundreds of miles away from their homes for the first time and many coming from “humble” situations. I’m not a parent but if I’m letting my kid attend a university that’s recruited my kid and promised that they are going to take care of him then you can bet that’s what I’m expecting. I’m not expecting a school president who’s suite is a few doors down from a drunk ass rich thief to turn their head when they obviously know things are going on that shouldn’t be going on. I’m not expecting coaches to be having lunches and dinners with this guy who’s encouraging my kid to go to strip clubs with him.
Yea, these kids are all accountable for their actions but the gross negligence of the University, the coaches, the athletics department and whoever else involved is far more outraging to me then whether or not an 18 year old has the will power to turn down a lunch or 500 bucks from Shapiro. The University of Miami has failed a decade’s worth of young men during a time in their life where they probably needed the most help and direction.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Oh believe me, I wrote this about the players because I felt like a lot of people were excusing them in this whole mess… but believe me, by no means do I think those other people who mentioned are blameless. I agree with you 100%.
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No reply necessary...
after your tireless work responding to responders; I just had issue because your post made NO mention of complicity by the University, and they were offering money; players weren’t holding them for ransom. University complicity is at issue if people don’t think Miami knew what Shapiro was doing; otherwise the story goes “Shapiro is a bum, those players were jerks, but the University is clean as a whistle”
If you like what I have to say here, visit my blog for more (http://dehype.posterous.com)
The University employed at least six coaches who knew of or participated in the scandal
The U is as dirty as a two-dollar whore. I think we’ve all established that.
This says nothing about the players character,
It says alot more about for profit “amateur” athletics. Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.
Yeah it really does
doing something you know is wrong simply because you want to and its fun is pretty much the definition of a character decision.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Although i despise your delivery….
When I un-ebonics your comment, i think i agree.
The system is flawed. It created a horrible environment for these kids to enter their adult years in.
And not all of them “pased the test.”
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most of us would agree that college sports is an extremely flawed system. It’s definitely not fair that school’s make tons of money while athletes play and risk their health for free.
But then again, isn’t that how the world works? Nothing is ever fair and people use that to dodge responsibility. “It’s not my fault because…” This kind of thing makes me thing about our economic problems. Yeah, we can blame the banks and blame Washington for being greedy but at the very root of the problem, you’ll find someone pulling out a credit card and buying something they KNEW they couldn’t afford. Same thing here. These players all KNEW the rules and decided to break them.
Players can talk about temptation and how it’s unfair all they want but those are excuses because they don’t want to take personal responsibility.
Can I say
I absolutely agree, and that is also the most awesome screenname I’ve ever seen. You didn’t have a sweethearted but curmudgeonly old Aunt Gertrude, did you?
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I did
Along with two wonderful sons Frank and Joe.
by Fenton_Hardy on Aug 17, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's about the greed and the constant desire for instant gratification
That latter one is the real vice of modern society. And it’s only getting worse.
Bingo
along with lack of personal responsibility comes utter lack of patience.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't blame the players
I don’t condone their behavior. I do believe that what they are doing is wrong. However, looking at this from a practical perspective, a very large number of kids (or barely adults, if you want) in this type of a situation will make bad decisions. It is inevitable that the culture of the school/boosters will lead to these problems. Not all of the players will give in, but any fix to this issue sure as shit won’t happen unless the school takes some goddamn responsibility.
Also, I have a really hard time with the ridiculously black and white stance here – some of these players (like Dixon) got a free meal, and that makes them bad people? Pretty strong language, and it really wouldn’t surprise me if many of the players didn’t know what they were doing was wrong if it really was just a dinner. A yacht trip? Drugs? Hookers? Not that I’m against that type of behavior personally (minus the hookers, to be fair. I’ll take the drugs and boats, though :)), but it should have thrown up a red flag when it was offered.
TL;DR People will give in to temptation, and they aren’t all bad. Actual grown-ups, i.e., people who run shit, need to take steps to fix this.
If you believe what they did was wrong
in certain case, why would you not blame the person for making the wrong decision? They can’t claim ignorance, they wanted to do something, and didn’t care about the potential consequences. Why should they be excused from what you admit are bad decisions?
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really think they should be excused, I just think that their behavior was inevitable. Young people doing dumb things when tempted is the kind of thing that should be expected. They should be accountable, but this type of behavior will only stop when those in charge take significant steps to make it stop.
yup.
Bad parents= Bad kids
Bad University Athletic Programs=Bad Athletes.
Start at the top. The fix will flow downhill……
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just kind of confused
by saying “I don’t think they should be excused” while also saying “don’t blame the players”. Those statements aren’t compatible.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
From what I’ve heard, the only allegations that I have a problem with are the bounties and the hookers, and that’s because bounties are obviously encouraging endangering other players, and hookers are illegal. Other than that, I really don’t see the problem in giving a kid a free television to go to your college. Frankly, if the NCAA wants this to stop, maybe they should let the players sell their own merchandise. The only reason the NCAA is cracking down on this is because they’re not profiting from this. You don’t hear about the NCAA cracking down on Tennis teams or Golf teams. That’s because they don’t generate the same amount of revenue.
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
75% of the Earth is covered by water, the rest by Nnamdi Asomugha.
You buying the hookers
for the golf team? I sure as hell never heard of a yacht party for the women’s crew. They don’t generate the revenue, which is usually why they are never given illegal gifts.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
EEEEF that
Make your money, eef the system and the “honor code”.
it is about your life, your oppertunities, and your wellfare.
This is a cruel world, get your money, f the system, they are not going to take care of you.
Until you get injured, that is
And the school covers your surgery, hospital bills, and rehabiliation. Plus, they cover the rest of your scholarship…if you have any intention of going to class.
What do you think this is? Hunger Games?
If you subscribe to that system
you probably have a cynical and debased code of character. which fits exactly what Jason was saying.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it's not.
‘The system’ includes plenty of people that are adversely affected.
Drug dealers have exactly your line of thought. But they don’t give a fuck about the lives they ruin or the families they tear apart – it’s about ‘their’ life, ‘their’ opportunities, and ‘their’ welfare.
This exact line of thought is the reason why people are less prone to aid their fellow man. People are their own worst enemies when they foster cynical attitudes such as yours.
people seem to be confused about understndable and excusable
These players actions are understandable; how does any disadvantaged young person turn down $40k, women, and parties? But in this case they have to because they made a pledge to their school and their teammates. And because they made poor decisions that ended up hurting both of those parties, and because they broke their contracts, its inexcusable.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And if you find what happened to be unthinkable and something you couldnt imagine doing yourself
Then you are probably lying to yourself
Uh huh, sure.
I’m lying to myself when I say I wouldn’t injury someone for $5 grand, when I’ve never even been in a physical fight before. I’m lying to myself when I say I wouldn’t fuck a hooker and get her pregnant, when I never even had sex before. I’m also lying to myself when I wouldn’t go to a wild, drunk fest parties, especially since I’ve never touch alcohol or drugs in my life.
Please. Fuck that thinking.
What the students did was inexcusable. They knew it would be breaking NCAA rules, potentially jeopardizing their college football career, and get their college into a shitload of trouble – yet did it anyway. No matter how you cut it, it is their fault.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"To catch theme is my real test, to train them is my cause."
wait a minute,,,,,
you’ve never fought, fucked or drank?
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
by theaction on Aug 17, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"To catch theme is my real test, to train them is my cause."
either im really bad or your really good....
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
depends...
if you do it with constraints. If you fucked 20 plus or binge drinking, then your screwed.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I aint in the 20s but jeez...i kno good ass from bad ass
is that wrong for me to know that?
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
I'm in my 20's.
I just don’t luck with ladies. No. I can tell trash from dime in seconds.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll translate:
You’re in your 20’s, but that doesn’t preclude you from being smart. You realize that fucking some tramp just to say you got laid is a pitiful attempt at evaluating self-worth, and worse yet, a slippery slope to the stupids and asshats. So, you kindly wave it off, all the while wondering: what the FUCK are people my age thinking?
Yup. Most are in that boat, and while they don’t accept it as part of their society, they see it and think, ‘no big deal’. And the ‘alpha’ males continue their tramp-stamp parade and perpetuate the notion that it’s cool to fuck strippers – as long as they’re getting recognition for it.
Good translation
I speak without sarcasm, and I’m a professional translator (for real)
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
If I recall correctly, aren’t you a youngin?
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
Well if you’ve never engaged in any of those activities, then they obviously wouldn’t be appealing to you…I’ve never done crack so I wouldn’t be interested in a crack party…but if there’s a keg flowing and some cute girls, 99.9% of the male population would be there if they could…
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
by Eagles02 on Aug 17, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well according to that logic, why did you choose to have your first drink. You’d never done it before, so why did it appeal to you?
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ummm because all the cool kids were doing it and I wanted to be part of the crowd. Then, I ended up liking beer and vodka, so I continue to drink it.
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
Uh
because all the cool kids were doing it
That will never be a rational legitimization. Basically, you’re saying that you care about what people think – even if said people are absent of any moral code or obviously do not give two shits about you at all?
This is not rocket science. This has never been rocket science.
If that keg and girl will get you and a whole lot of other people in trouble (i.e.: Miami’s situation), it still wouldn’t make it the right thing to do.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"To catch theme is my real test, to train them is my cause."
already happened…fraternity went bye-bye while I was in school for just that reason…cuz of a keg…live and learn and c’est la vie
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
It's the holier than thou argument.
People say they wouldn’t do it because they see the long term effects. That is bullshit though. It’s like playing chess, someone who is not playing will see moves you don’t.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not holier than anyone – I know I’m a smartass/jackass. I’m putting out the flaw thinking of “hey, you would do the same thing as them!!” and why the students are still in the wrong for doing it.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"To catch theme is my real test, to train them is my cause."
Didnt say you would do the same thing
I said if you cant see yourself doing something like this your lying to yourself. And being a Virgin isnt a Reason man, because you obviosly masterbate. So you are only choosing to have sex with yourself instead of a female. Unless you have never shot one off?
Hey Imp, are you me? I’m pretty sure you are after reading that first paragraph, and I agree on the second one too.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you tellin me that BGN the most bad ass blog in the world is full of virgins?!
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
Is that a problem? People make different choices, and I choose to wait. If that makes me a loser then so be it, that’s you’re deal, not mine. I’m a smart, athletic, motivated guy who understands girls as well or better than the vast majority of guys, and I surround myself with cute girls. Believe me, the opportunity is always there, I choose not to take it. And I’m man enough to tell you that, so good luck convincing me that I’m a loser for it.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Whoa, I don’t think anyone was referring to you as that, at all. You do you man, we all have our choices AND our vices. I just dislike the “holier than thou” train of thought, which I don’t believe you have. If people were more concerned about themselves than others, this world would see a lot less of this
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
Not going to happened.
I think its human nature to see someone fail.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course…as humans I firmly believe we have a predisposition toward trying to make everyone look “less than” ourselves….sad, but true
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
Sorry, I just see a lot of that judgment in our culture, so I overreacted a bit. Not directed at anyone in particular, just a rant.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No apology necessary man. Everyone judges everyone else, most of the time unnecessarily. If you can keep your head on straight and be a good person, you have a much better shot at making it though.
"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc
True that.
Just so damn hard when people pissed you off while you wished to burned the bridge.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. I read a report that said 1 out 3 girls had a STD.
I’m picky but the ones I like don’t like me back. It’s better to wait. You don’t want shit on your ding dong.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
thats not true I comment all the time and still get mine
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
Suuuuuure you do.
Lol.
I’m just fuckin around. I have a fiance and I’m no virgin, but I still manage to comment a pretty good bit.
I, for one, do not give two shits about what other men on this site may or may not do with their dicks
So if you could stop talking about it and get back to the actual topic at hand, that’d be glorious.
I’m evil you from an alternate universe.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"To catch theme is my real test, to train them is my cause."
…I’ll be keeping an eye on you.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
by AnthroEagle on Aug 17, 2011 4:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Banging hookers and purposely injuring other players?
No, I’m pretty sure I can imagine myself not doing those things very easily without lying to to myself.
alright i need help, im arguing with my cousin eagles/cowboys
suggestions?
any day is a good day to be a Dodgers, Eagles, Penguins, Clippers, Texas A&M fan! except when they lose
I was born the year Brett Favre started playing.... amazing
If you're a troll, bandwagoner, or NNAMDI iZ SO GREATZ-er fuck off or i will go apeshit on you
by henry-dekoeyer-eagle-fan on Aug 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Take a nap.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
shit in his eyeball
"if you’re going to act like bitches, then I will treat you like bitches". - AR
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....
by theaction on Aug 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats disgusting
esp the people offering the money
any day is a good day to be a Dodgers, Eagles, Penguins, Clippers, Texas A&M fan! except when they lose
I was born the year Brett Favre started playing.... amazing
If you're a troll, bandwagoner, or NNAMDI iZ SO GREATZ-er fuck off or i will go apeshit on you
by henry-dekoeyer-eagle-fan on Aug 17, 2011 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
I am actually pretty shocked at how strong of a position you took here, Jason. Its rare that we get to see you take on one side of something so heavily, nd here it seems to have struck a cord.
That said, i cant say i agree with your analysis.
Obviously, i dont give the players a free pass. They did wrong, and they really wont have to take much/any punishment.
But this problem is so much bigger than those player that i think its unfair to write an article that jumps up and down saying “dont forget about them! theyre horrible people!! They took the gifts! They are they offenders!!!”
I just cant see how taking it down to the lowest level of “crime” is where you seem to have the biggest issue. This all started at the top, and the University is the most to blame.
You keep saying how these individuals ruined it for their teammates. Ruined it for guys to come after them. Thats nonsense. The school ruined this for their students and their athletic department. How many blind eyes do you think they had to be turned for this level of blatent rule-breaking?
These kids were the product of a poorly run program that thought they were above the rules. They put these kids in a bad position, and some of them didnt pass the test. Be mad at the kid for the incident, but be mad at the university for allowing the envirnoment in which presented this opportunity.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
WHO THE FCK CARES??????
They did what they did….It is what it is….MOVE THE FCK ON….. Im surprised it bothers people that much… Whaaaaa look he got something for free….. So the fck what??? Tell Dixon to his face he was wrong or better yet let’s just sit him the whole season teach him a lesson…. Yaa right
RUN VICK RUN!!!!!!
by DesertEagle59 on Aug 17, 2011 4:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You must be sleeping in a cave.
People are still bitching about Terrelle Pryor. Personally I don’t turd… I have my own problems.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Its national news, bud. Everyone cares to some extent.
But Great comment!!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry I went ape sh!t on here....
It just bothered me that they have blow it up way they do… I mean c’mon the school officials REALLY didn’t see the guys coming to school with fresh gear,new cars knowing that alot of the guys came from not so wealthy families?? No because when they’re winning they could give a sh!t less…. But I bet these same officials will be ragging on them now…. Its just hypocrisy that gets to me like half the officials ain’t done something crooked b4 right?
RUN VICK RUN!!!!!!
by DesertEagle59 on Aug 17, 2011 5:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
read my long comment just above your post from a little bit ago. i think we’re of the same opnion.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh i definitely agree... It should go from the Top down not the Bottom up...
RUN VICK RUN!!!!!!
by DesertEagle59 on Aug 17, 2011 5:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Colleges/NCAA made this bed and now they're lying in it
I understand that the players broke rules but these rules are crazy. Look at the graduation rates or current transcripts of these kids, and tell me the colleges really care about their education. If these players are student athletes lets make sure there is a 90% graduation rate for players not entering the NFL. Or how about we have an independent audit on what classes these players are taking and how they are doing? It’s because these are pro players who are taking classes so that the AD’s and Coaches can get paid.
In summation:
Miami doesn’t care if these kids learn anything.
This doesn’t effect the average student.
and most importantly…..
The NCAA is fine with a LONG history of poor student academic performance from these students, but cut into their profits and you might as well killed someone.
by Teamocil on Aug 17, 2011 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
ding ding ding…..
Winner.
This all starts at the top. This whole problem is wayyyyy to far reaching to be looking simply at the students as the “offenders.” Its so much bigger then them.
You want it fixed? Dont even name the former students who you have no recourse against. Go to the source. The NCAA and the Universities.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At its root, the problem is created by the NCAA. The notion of amateur athletics is flawed.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
by KByars on Aug 17, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
On this grand of a scale….i agree.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Things like this didnt happen at the junior college i played golf for……
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason the problem exists in the first place is the NCAA
But, it technically is their athletic association, and they are allowed to run it however they deem fit. Obviously, the majority of us disagree with the way they run it, and that’s fine.
But they need to be willing to police the programs if they want to have such stringent rules. The fact that investigative reports are the chief reason any of the major NCAA rules violations come to light screams incompetence from the national NCAA compliance office.
Colleges do not give a shit if you graduate or not.
Doesn’t matter if you are a student athlete or not. Colleges are nothing more than diploma mill industry.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to point this out, but this statement:
Colleges are nothing more than diploma mill industry.
Is totally incongruous with this statement:
Colleges do not give a shit if you graduate or not.
How can a college be a diploma mill if they don’t care if you graduate or not? You don’t get a diploma for dropping out or transferring.
Just a thought
Could it somehow improve things or reduce corruption if the players were, at least for the period of time from training camp to the season’s end, officially employees of the university or the athletic department with a fixed pay scale (and maybe incentives for each game played or started or particular achievements)? I’m just thinking back to my brief days on a student newspaper, where we got “pay points” for each article that got published, with the points determined by the size of the article, and a paycheck from the university at the end of the month.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
by Rabbit T on Aug 17, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have actually tried to calculate a fix for this too. I dont see it being an easy thing to do….
But i had thought along the lines of exactly where a college player crosses into a proffessional player. The draft.
What if there were minimum credentials, or standards one was upheld to in order to enter the draft?
The NFL and the NCAA would have to work together on that….
Oh wait……Then they would have to split profits….
….Yea….that wouldnt work.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Aug 17, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, one easy one...
You have to actually have graduated from your college to be eligible for the draft.
No money is involved in that one, it’s pretty much a no-brainer.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
which is why Pryor has his case.
He didn’t graduate from college while still eligible in going back to Ohio State.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
by chillyphilly on Aug 17, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
First I think you have to tie scholarships to academic performance (graduations, grades & quality of classes)
Then I think you tell each kid he can be reimbursed for living expenses by the program for $X per year for being on the team. That way if you make them product receipts, you can keep it legal (hookers and drug dealers don’t give receipts right?)
No, if you pay the athletes, then you can’t call them amateurs, if you can’t call them amateurs, you don’t get tax exemption.
Not surprisingly, this whole thing is about money.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
We all condemn the societal structures that leave a person dirt-poor, teach him he is above the rules, and offer him abundant temptations. We all recognize that this combination makes it very difficult — perhaps nearly impossible — to avoid the temptations.
Think of the guy at your work who’s going through a divorce or just had a family member die. You can understand why he’s in a terrible mood all the time and snaps at everyone and doesn’t get much work done. You can be sympathetic towards him and try not to get mad at him when he snaps at you. But whether he can help it or not, whether you want to hold it against him or not, he’s still being a dick.
When Jason points to people who think they’re above the rules, who break the rules freely, and says they have shown poor character, I don’t see how people can disagree with that. I understand how the system molded them into that shape, and I am much more frustrated with the system than with the individuals, but that’s still the shape they came out, and it’s not a good shape.
Shades of grey
I would agree that the players who engaged in bounties etc.. have shown poor character, but people who took a TV for their room or accepted a meal or drinks, no matter how expensive, have done nothing wrong. We’re discussing an arcane rule-set, enforced solely for the reason of profit at the expense of others.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
I agree on the shades of gray thing, some violations are definitely more serious than others.
I disagree on “have done nothing wrong” though. You may think the rules are outdated and enforced solely for profit reasons, but they are still the rules, and knowingly breaking them still doesn’t reflect well on your character. The person who committed only the mildest violations may be a relatively light shade of gray, but they’re not pure white.
Sodomy is illegal in many places. Do you show poor character by engaging in oral sex while in one of those areas?
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
The lightest shade of gray you could come up with, huh?
This is a rule that is regularly enforced, that the players sign a pledge not to break, that they know will cause harm to others if broken. That’s quite a bit different from a rule that is never enforced, that most people don’t know exists, that brings harm to nobody.
Arbitrary rules are arbitrary rules.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.
by KByars on Aug 17, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I mostly disagree with JasonB
Because these rules are exploitive.
The economic value these players produce isn’t even close to the value of what the players receive. It’s offensive to look at what the schools are willing to call an education. More money should be spent on teaching these kids what they need to know in order to graduate and not on their coach’s private jet. Also, if you’re part of a multimillion dollar video game franchise for four years and driving jersey sales, you shouldn’t have to panhandle for beer money.
I agree that the players get a bad deal, but I don’t think that makes it OK for them to choose not to honor the deal.
They signed up for those rules when they joined the team. The people who then follow those rules are showing better character than the people who don’t.
remember these kids are 17 and 18 years old
Saying a kid has bad character becuase he accepts gifts for his play on the field is charachter assinastion. College Football and basketball are the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA respectivly.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 17, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that
The parts that I agree with are that when you sign up the deal, you should still honor it even though its completely messed up. Its just frustrating when the NFLPA can review if training camps are fairly run but college players have no advocate they can turn to. Also, I think the illegal activity is just wrong, hookers… really?
They signed up for those rules when they joined the team
If they want to play in the NFL, they have no choice. They are bottle necked into playing NCAA football. I don’t think its fair to essentially force someone to sign a contract and then act surprised and say they have bad character when they breach said contract.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 17, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
good point
But this is where the gray area sets in. You shouldn’t come to play college football and expect to blow off your classes and make it rain in a strip club when you’re a starter. That being said if you actually are a student athlete and follow most of the rules I have no problem with giving you pizza/beer money.
I know that sounds hypocritical but I think there is a difference between bending the rules in an unjust system and completely disregarding them.
I thought the title of this article was a little holier than thou too
The real blame lies with the NCAA and it’s exploitation of kids that simply have a dream of playing professional football or basketball. They allow the colleges to be used as a defacto minor league system by the NFL and NBA. Than act shocked when the damm greedy kids want more than just a free ride to school. Who says a lot of these guys are even want to go to college.
College Football and Basketball make hundreds of millions of dollars each year, in fact they make money like the pro’s do. Only in college the only person getting paid are the AD and the coaches.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 17, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that is where you touch on the real problem
Which is:
US College football and basketball are so completely saturated with media exposure, television revenue, stadium ticket sales, merchandise sales… scads of money.
Amateur athletics are possible, think of the amateur fútbol and baskeball leagues all over Europe. The difference is that at the level that they’re amateur, there isn’t all the media attention and other revenue around to corrupt the whole picture. Well, I do know a friend of mine who was given a car by his amateur soccer team (Greek 5th division) – it was a used clunker, but there was a sort of consensus that for someone who’d shown himself to be an outstanding player for several years, it was ok. (and rare, besides) But still, you don’t have teams at that level offering parents money to sign up their kids with the team or boosters providing expensive parties and that. It’s not like there’s a stack of revenue generated by sales of Niki Poliyirou jerseys – hell, I couldn’t even buy the jersey of a first-division (so completely professional) player when I offered to because he had the same exact name as my great-grandfather.
If I think about Italian soccer, which at the top level is every bit as money-saturated as the NFL, something like the 3rd or 4th division would be comparable to NCAA football in both the way they function as minor leagues and the way they involve the idea of supporting your local team / hometown. At that level, though, in Italy they’re still professional, so there are different rules applying.
To sum it up: NCAA football players are in a system that is almost pro in talent level, media exposure, fan attention, and revenue generation, while it also insists on being amateur.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
You make an excellent point and it's one I was thinking about earlier.
Our two biggest sports in this country (foootball and basketball) essentially have no viable minor-league system, so college is saturated with talent. Money follows that talent obviously. In European soccer (and American soccer to an extent) there is no such thing as the highly touted kid going to college to play. Instead he plays for a lower division team or a club’s academy system and college is left to the students.
Eh, what they did was fine. Its a stupid rule and if they wanted to break it, that’s okay with me. I won’t think less of them, and they shouldn’t be held accountable.
Eagles next starting QB: "East-West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
Flyers: Sigh
Phillies:Gah enough with the injuries!.
Not letting underage kids
attend parties with booze and hookers is a stupid rule?
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 17, 2011 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not being from the US I find the college system fascinating. The perception I seem to get is most schools are doing the same thing, but some seem to have developed more creative ways to hide these violations. I do think the players should be held accountable but the real issue seems to be the culture of some of these schools. The punishments when caught seems to vary so greatly as well, which doesn’t help things.
Would stripping them of their degree be enough punishment for the players? Or forcing them to pay back the cost of the Scholarship.
Is this a greater issue in Football compared to other sports? And if it is could this be because of the NFL/NCAA not allowing players straight from High School to be drafted like the they are in other sports?
Why not?
Doctors, lawyers, and vets can get their license to practice their profession revoked. Teachers can be banned from teaching. Priests can be defrocked.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
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