Could Avant be traded? If so what's the future looking like?
by wild_eagle on Jun 5, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
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PrintI know this is probably going to piss a lot of you guys off, but it's something I have been thinking about for a while now so just bare with me...
I've been thinking that Avant may not be here next season, it seems like a typical Eagles move to trade a guy like Avant and sell high to get some kind of value for him (i.e a draft pick, package him in a trade for another trade etc.).
The support...
For the support I'd like to take Greg Lewis into consideration. Lewis was our teams slot guy up until Avant took over, Lewis was a guy who'd move outside from time to time to fill in like Avant does.. Lewis like Avant was very good at his job. Here a look at Lewis:
Years in Philly: 6 years.
Stats:
2003- 11 games, 0 starts, 6 catches for 95 yards and 0 TD's
2004- 16 games, 3 starts, 17 catches for 183 yards and 0 TD's. Also added 4 rushes for 16 yards and 0 TD's.
*2005- 16 games, 16 starts, 48 catches for 561 yards and 1 TD. He also added 2 rushes for 13 yards and 0 TD's.
2006- 16 games, 3 starts, 24 catches for 348 yards and 2 TD's.
2007- 15 games, 1 start, 13 catches for 265 yards and 3 TD's.
2008- 16 games, 0 starts, 19 catches for 247 yards and 1 TD.
Now I realize Lewis was sometimes the 4th WR, but for the most part he was the guy who played in the slot and who's role resembles that of Avant's... In '07 and '08 Avant was the slot WR from what I remember.. But to fully understand what I'm talking about let's look at Avants stats:
Years in Philly: 6 years
Stats:
2006- 8 games, 3 starts, 7 catches for 68 yards and 1 TD.
2007- 15 games, 5 starts, 23 catches for 267 yards and 2 TD's.
2008- 15 games, 6 starts, 32 catches for 377 yards and 2 TD's.
2009- 16 games, 9 starts, 41 catches for 587 yards and 3 TD's.
2010- 16 games, 3 starts, 51 catches for 573 yards and 1 TD.
So with both of their stats you can see very similar production from both players, Avant has produced a little more than Lewis did, and he's been a monster in the Playoffs too.. We got a 5th round pick in return for Lewis, I could see the Eagles sending Avant to a WR needy team like the Panthers, Redskins, Bills, Bengals, Jaguars, Bears, and the Rams for decent pick in 2012, or packaging him with another player and trading him for a much higher pick.
The future?
Well as of now the only WR's I see who could step in at slot for us would be Chad Hall and Riley Cooper. Here's their stats from their rookie seasons:
Hall:
8 games, 1 start, 11 catches for 111 yards and 1 TD. He also added 9 rushes for 29 yards with 0 TD's.
Cooper:
13 games, 2 starts, 7 catches for 117 yards and 1 TD.
A quick look at both players would show that they're both following the production of Lewis and Avant so far, however we see Cooper more as the pure WR where as Hall's pretty much that gadget player Andy always likes to have.. If we were to trade Avant and promote from within I'd place my money on Cooper being the guy in the Slot because of his size (6'3, 222lb's) and speed (4.52 40 time) while Chad remains the 4th WR and gadget guy.
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This seems like yet another example of lockout madness. I see what you’re thinking and see why you think that, but there’s no way Avant isn’t back next year, in my opinion.
Important things also worth considering:
-Wasn’t G-Lew playing on an expiring deal (meaning he only had a year or so left)? In that case, it made sense for the Eagles to get something for him while they could. If I’m remembering correctly, we just gave Avant a nice contract extension at the end of last season.
-Leadership value: I think Avant has more leadership value than G-Lew had. I can’t really prove this, but it’s just a feeling I have since Avant is known for being a very high character guy. He did win the Ed Block Courage Award this past season, I believe. He’s a strong role model for other mid-round/late draft picks like himself. He does his job well, and even does all the little things: special teams, blocking, second-string holder (lol), etc.
- Here’s another factor that I think is worth considering: Avant’s father tragically died in a car accident this off-season. Now, I know the Eagles (as any good business would do) would/should have their own best interests in mind first, but I think they would at least consider the fact that Avant deserves some “stability”, especially after a tragic event like this.
I don’t think the Eagles want to get rid of this guy, unless they got some ridiculous offer (which doesn’t seem likely at all).
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Jun 5, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions
No.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on Jun 5, 2011 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he could be traded, I don’t think he’s going to be. Honestly I’m not much of an Avant fan myself. I think he’s always been a bit over-appreciated. I would rather have a guy like Burress or Cooper fill the role.
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
I’m miles ahead of you two hacks when it comes to online toughness and throwing down from behind my computer.- DickMuffin
Trump 2012
What makes him over-appreciated in your eyes?
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Jun 5, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly...
except for this past year, he caught almost every ball thrown his way.
"This is one of the top 10 biggest bonehead trades in the history of the NFL."
-Redskins TE Chris Cooley
by Ralf E Chubbs on Jun 5, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I’m not trying to say he’s not a good player, but I feel like a lot of Eagles fans think he’s better than he really is. There was a lot of hype last year during training camp because he caught every ball, but I saw him drop a couple of balls this year that he should’ve caught in a clutch moment, such as that one against the Redskins. Of course that was a really difficult ball, but it still is one that he’s gotta make. I just don’t think he’s a very important asset to this team
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
I’m miles ahead of you two hacks when it comes to online toughness and throwing down from behind my computer.- DickMuffin
Trump 2012
Wait, are you claiming that we Eagles fans participate in Homerism?!? Over valuing our own guys?!? How dare you sir? How dare you?
It’s fine to over value someone to an extent, but past that point it becomes stupidity. For example: Kevin Kolb
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
I’m miles ahead of you two hacks when it comes to online toughness and throwing down from behind my computer.- DickMuffin
Trump 2012
How much do you think we overvalue Kolb? Because it’s clearly apparent you don’t like him, and there’s a point where that bias becomes stupidity as well.
"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
This time last year I think people over valued him quite a bit. I don’t see how my “bias” is stupid when it happened to be correct. I said Vick should’ve been the starter the day after we lost to the Cowboys in the wild card. My “bias” is an accurate analysis of Kolb’s skill, or lack thereof. I’m sure to someone as incompetent as you, that all doesn’t make sense though.
He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.
I’m miles ahead of you two hacks when it comes to online toughness and throwing down from behind my computer.- DickMuffin
Trump 2012
This time last year I think people over valued him quite a bit.
Most likely true. I wouldn’t have expected him to light the league on fire, but I thought he would pick up where McNabb left off, maybe a little worse. I don’t think that’s overvaluing him.
I don’t see how my "bias" is stupid when it happened to be correct. I said Vick should’ve been the starter the day after we lost to the Cowboys in the wild card.
There’s a difference between “Kolb is bad” and “Vick should start”. Last offseason, neither would have been the smartest opinion.
On the first statement: this is decidedly not true, and something that was talked about last summer over and over again. He may never be great or even very good, but to suggest that he is bad without a whole lot of justification for it demonstrates a appalling amount of ignorance. In 2009, he had one great game and one okay one that looked worse than it was. Last year, he beat the best record in the NFC missing a top WR and LT, and alternated between good and bad. His entire career has been made of small sample sizes, and he has done some impressive things. I’ve thought this opinion was purely out of bias for Vick and didn’t reflect a deep look into his play.
As for the second opinion, this wouldn’t have been the smart opinion last season. In ‘09 (and even in the preseason), Vick had shown absolutely nothing that would have made him a better option than Kolb He didn’t look ready and made some bad decisions with the football. Most Eagle fans would agree about that. The fact that he did eventually start and played well doesn’t suddenly make this statement valid. Funny things happen in football.
My "bias" is an accurate analysis of Kolb’s skill, or lack thereof.
There you go again.
I’m sure to someone as incompetent as you, that all doesn’t make sense though.
Thank you for insulting me. I’m sure that will get you brownie points here.
"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
I don’t see how my "bias" is stupid when it happened to be correct.
Ok, your OPINION is biased, and since opinions are subjective, you cannot claim it to be correct without offering up some sort of evidence. The reality is that while KK has had good games (twice named Offensive player of the week and completely tore up the Falcons), he has also had bad games (The GB game was a disaster) and no one truly knows how good he will end up, but he must have something going for him b/c multiple teams are going to try to trade for him once the lockout is resolved. IMO, he will be an above average QB that may make a Pro Bowl or two, assuming he has some above average offensive weapons too work with.
I’m sure to someone as incompetent as you, that all doesn’t make sense though.
So, in your first post, you talk about wanting Burress or Cooper more than Avant even though out of the 3, Avant is the guy who has shown that he can perform in this offense in the slot for the past few years. Cooper has lots of potential but also needs to continue developing to reach it (which is never guaranteed AND he projects to being better on the outside) and Burress’ POST PRISON potential is a complete unknown to say the least (he could have aged in prison or lost some of his athleticism or may have lost some of his competitive edge or ….). So you would rather have 2 unknowns over a guy who has a track record of production? That is incompetent.
Try to post like a grown up next time, and that means less name calling and more educated analyses. Stupid-head.
not an important asset?
see this is where you are wrong. Avant is targeted on third downs very often because of his mostly sure hands. He catches 68.9 percent of the balls thrown at him ( http://www.advancednflstats.com/ ). That’s more then Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson. He also is right up there in terms of balls caught for first down on the team. DJax had 33, maclin had 45 and despite not being on the field nearly as much as those guys, Avant still had 31. Compared to other similiar players (as far as slot guys go) he is up there with GB, James Jones who had 33. I even looked back a few years to see perhaps the greatest slot receiver performance ever, 2004 Brandon Stokely (the year Manning through 49 TD’s). Stokely had 53 1st down catches that year, the year after? 29. So i think we value Avant just fine.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
Mike Vick is a piece of shit
by Talon Talent on Jun 7, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
through = threw
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
Mike Vick is a piece of shit
by Talon Talent on Jun 7, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
To be completely honest.
I do not want him traded, I don’t think he will be traded.. But based on what the Eagles do the possibility is definitely there..
Reid could decide that he’s confident in developing a younger in Cooper etc..
Or a WR needy team could make an offer.. Who know.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
lockout madness
we just signed him to a 5 year deal…and honestly…what the f could we get for a slot WR that would make it so worth it?
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Lockout madness? No,
I have been saying Avant’s a trade option for a while now.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
What did Cooper show last year to make some of you think that Reid would think about trading Avant? Only thing he did last year was make that catch in the Titans game besides that he didn’t do anything on offense
He had some good catches...
Also it’s not so much what he’s done as much as it’s his athletic ability.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
what athletic ability are you speaking of
like legend says he didn’t do anything but make a couple nice catches (10 maybe?). Just beacuse he’s tall doesn’t mean he’s the next Randy Moss
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
cooper barley played though
its kind of hard to rate the guy based on his rookie year…… of course he will never be the next randy moss but its never a bad idea to have height in your redzone offense
Look at what he did at Florida,
he’s a big body, he boxes people out, he’s got good hands and at 6’2 and 222lbs runs a 4.5.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Thing I like about Cooper
There are two types of recievers in this regard: There’s the popfly receivers. They wait on the ball to come to them instead of coming back to the ball. Than there’s the other type, the aggressive type. They type that doesn’t wait for the ball to come to them, they cut off their defender and go get the ball. They don’t treat a pass like a pop fly, more like a rebound in the closing seconds of a tie game. Cooper is that type of guy. The final play of our season againist the Pack in Wildcard Round is a bad example. He had Trammon Williams beat and Vick just underthrow the ball and put too much touch on it. He gets more on that throw and…well let’s not go down that road again. Point is Cooper is a good physical wideout, something we havn’t had in a while.
"The positions I played, every play, I was making contact, not like that … Deion Sanders. He couldn’t tackle my wife. He’s back there dancing out there instead of hitting." -Chuck Bednarik
by MidwesternEaglesfan on Jun 6, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree.
One of the things I loved about Cooper coming out is that he’s big, fast and physical..
He boxes out DB’s and attacks the ball like a WR should, I have no doubt he’ll be a starter for somebody one day, maybe not here (I doubt here) but he’ll do us wonders then move on somewhere to have a stellar career.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Thing I like about Cooper
There are two types of recievers in this regard: There’s the popfly receivers. They wait on the ball to come to them instead of coming back to the ball. Than there’s the other type, the aggressive type. They type that doesn’t wait for the ball to come to them, they cut off their defender and go get the ball. They don’t treat a pass like a pop fly, more like a rebound in the closing seconds of a tie game. Cooper is that type of guy. The final play of our season againist the Pack in Wildcard Round is a bad example. He had Trammon Williams beat and Vick just underthrow the ball and put too much touch on it. He gets more on that throw and…well let’s not go down that road again. Point is Cooper is a good physical wideout, something we havn’t had in a while.
"The positions I played, every play, I was making contact, not like that … Deion Sanders. He couldn’t tackle my wife. He’s back there dancing out there instead of hitting." -Chuck Bednarik
by MidwesternEaglesfan on Jun 6, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
Avant doesnt have much value in a trade, maybe a 4th at best. He is ideal for what we need int he slot. We have our speed demons with Jax and Mac and we have our sky scrappers with Riley and maybe Plax. Avant is neither, he is just an outstanding route runner with good hands. He adds more that you can’t see on film or stats. His leadership and maturity. He is also our spirtual leader. I think there is maybe a 2% chance we lose Avant in the next 2 years
"The positions I played, every play, I was making contact, not like that … Deion Sanders. He couldn’t tackle my wife. He’s back there dancing out there instead of hitting." -Chuck Bednarik
by MidwesternEaglesfan on Jun 5, 2011 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
That’s the other thing I’ve thought. I just don’t think he has a lot of trade value. Avant is a niche player, and his niche is being a slot WR/short-yardage guy in a West Coast offense. Which he is very good at. He’s not really a run-n-gun or vertical player, so that limits the roles he can play for teams.
"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
I dont think Hall or Coop
have what it takes to play the slot.
Hall -because I hate him. " Sorry I just do"
Coop because for a man of his size he should have been a dominating force in the redzone. He ended up being ok. But thats about it. Lets hope he plays a little bigger this year.
It was his (Cooper’s) rookie year, it’s not like he has topped out as far as potential goes. He was (somewhat) buried on the depth chart behind Jack, Mac and Avant so it’s not like he got a lot of opportunities either. Did he set the world on fire? Of course not, but does that mean that every season moving forward is going to be the same as last year, performance wise? Of course not. He has a very intriguing skill set and with some further coaching up and maturation as an NFL player, he could develop into a very productive WR and an integral part of the offense. Expecting a rookie WR who is 4th on the depth chart to instantly be a “dominating force in the red zone” with a QB who isn’t necessarily known as being a highly accurate red zone passing threat is a little unfair.
I do agree that the slot is not where Cooper fits best.
Look at Greg Lewis's Rookie year, then Avant's rookie year
when they were in similar situations as Cooper is in now and look at how similar all 3 are to each other.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
lOCKOUT MADNESS?
I would say hitting that pipe to often, one of the best slot receivers in the league, you dont just give that up
Umm
where did I say he should or would be traded?
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
trade him for a 5th. Or 4th at best.
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
by MightyJoeBanner on Jun 6, 2011 11:32 AM EDT reply actions
that's what I was thinking we'd get.. But in the Kolb trade he could be that deal sweetener to somebody..
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Kolb trade
Kolb is going to get a big trade, you dont give up anything more then him,, you are getting the most for little and giving avant away is not worth it
I mean what if we were to get a
1st and 4th for Kolb only.. but a 1st and 3rd for Kolb and Avant? That’s the scenario that I’m talking about.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
Nah
I think we could get a 4th for avant alone so i’d take a 1st and 4th plus another 4th, over a 1st and 3rd
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
Mike Vick is a piece of shit
by Talon Talent on Jun 7, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I Agree
We could easily get a 4th for Avant if wanted, maybe a late 3rd rd so why give that up just to do it,
Worth more
For a team looking for a poor man’s Boldin, Ward, Mason, Driver, or other sure hand football smart guy Avant can bargain for a little more. Stat wise he has shown himself to be better or equal to a lot of WRs this season and last season. This season was helped because Brent was not involved so much but he is the Dawkins of receivers: spiritual leader; high football IQ; does not need to be lead guy to contribute in the smallest way; accept responsibility; and so on. He would step up and fill the opposite of go-to-guy and slot position on any team and command higher than a 4th in todays selfish show-me-the-money primadona No Fun League.
by Dr Phil E Fan on Jun 6, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
PFfft
I’d rather get rid of an unproductive Chad Hall than Avant.
"If they bring in a cardboard cutout of Nicholas Cage to replace McD, I’d be fine with it as long as it can get this D to execute." - McNabb2Maclin4Philly
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