Clayton: Kevin Kolb Is Worth It For The Arizona Cardinals
by JasonB on May 26, 2011 12:30 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintESPN's John Clayton says that not only should the Cardinals trade for Eagles QB Kevin Kolb, he believes they want to and they will. Among the potential Kolb suitors, Clayton lists the Cards as the favorites.
Arizona: The Cardinals probably will offer two second-round picks to the Eagles, but Philadelphia will try to hold out for a first-rounder and even more. Odds: 2-1
He lists a number of recent QB trades including Matt Schaub to the Texans and Matt Cassel to the Patriots as the basis for his idea. He says that in the years following those trades, the offenses of those respective teams saw a marked improvement. He feels that Kolb could bring the same to the Cardinals.
Linking Kolb with the Cardinals should produce at least a spike of four or five points a game in the team's offense. The Cardinals averaged 18.2 points a game in a horrible 4-12 season. But the Cards have all the signs of a team that could make a significant jump in scoring.
The Cardinals QB play was so poor last year, that even if Kolb just stabilized the position, he'd still be worth the investment.
The Cardinals play in the highly suspect NFC West. Plugging in Kolb and his 60 percent accuracy should put the Cardinals -- at the very worst -- in the middle of the league for quarterback play. Orton could probably do the same.
If Kolb eventually becomes as good as Schaub, the Cardinals' offensive problems are resolved for years. At the very least, he should be able to bring them to the middle of the pack, which justifies the trade.
It should be interesting to see how accurate all the reporting about this Kolb to the Cardinals idea is. Most of the media is acting like it's a done deal.
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Kolb is as proven a starting quality QB as it’s possible to be. He has the right size, the right experience, the right attitude, the right intelligence. He hasn’t done it over a full season, but you generally can’t get one of those in any trade for any money. I can’t imagine Kolb going for less than a 1st rounder plus some. He’s worth it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
he's worth it
……only because of supply and demand…..
FLY #7 FLY !!!
In MUDD I trust !!!
by BWestFactor on May 26, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Goddamn it!
I hate this lockout! I’m getting so tired of hearing these “almost” there reports of possible trades or acquisitions. Honestly, I think this is all speculation as there has been so many rumours of where Kolb may go i.e. Seattle, Arizona, etc. I believe he is worth a first rounder but I think its more dependent on the team. To a team like Arizona where you can pinpoint that there QB situation effed their season up, you might be able to pull a first rounder easier than Seattle who hows Charlie Whitehurst (who blows in my opinion).
Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.-Oscar Wilde
"I would go to battle any time with these guys"-MV7
Being an Eagles fan is so awesome, even Giants fans want to be one.
Matt Cassel threw for 4000 yards and only netted a 2nd round pick from KC.
Who's Been Eatin' Hummus?
She passed wind, excused herself, and sponged off in the corner as I sat dazed and confused...
Yup, that’s definitely an example of a trade in which a team didn’t have to give up much for a QB. However, there are plenty of examples where teams gave up more:
- 2007 – Matt Schaub and the 10th overall pick for the 8th overall pick, 39th overall pick, 2nd round pick in 2008
- 2009 – Jay Cutler for the 18th overall pick, 84th overall pick, 1st round pick in 2010, and Kyle Orton
- 2010 – Donovan McNabb for the 37th overall pick, and conditional pick in 2011 (4th that could become a 3rd)
- 2010 – Charlie Whitehurst and the 60th overall pick for the 40th overall pick, and a 3rd round pick in 2011
Sure, the Cards can say “The Pats gave the Chiefs Cassel for a 2,” to which the Eagles can simply reply, “Good for the Chiefs. Call us when you’re ready to make a serious offer. Otherwise, have fun with your upcoming 4-12 season.”
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
Arizona could also say "Good luck trying to get a 1st and a 3rd from another team. Especially since 6 teams drafted a QB in the first 2 rounds last year. And after next season when you franchise tag your 28 year old QB “prodigy”, who has started 5 games in the past 5 seasons, call back and we’ll offer you a 4th round draft pick."
Who's Been Eatin' Hummus?
She passed wind, excused herself, and sponged off in the corner as I sat dazed and confused...
“Hope Marc Bulger works out for you. Click.”
I think we’re both bad negotiators.
Anyway, I think you and I are on the complete opposite ends of the Kolb spectrum. So let’s put our (figurative) money where our mouths are. I think the value of the eventual deal will be the equivalent of something in the ballpark of a mid 1, or higher. It appears you think his worth is 2nd round or lower. So let’s split the difference. Using the draft value chart, if the value of the return for Kolb is better than the 24th pick (740 points), which is right in between a mid 1 and the first pick of the 2nd round, I win. If it’s lower, you win. Obviously, if another player is involved, that messes things up a bit. Let’s do this.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
deal
I was expecting 2 2nds, btw
Who's Been Eatin' Hummus?
She passed wind, excused herself, and sponged off in the corner as I sat dazed and confused...
The situations aren't quite the same.
Don’t forget, the Chiefs could demand a lower price because the Pats had franchised Cassel for more than $16 million. The Pats HAD to move that contract and the Chiefs (or any other team who traded for Cassel) had to swallow that giant camp number.
by Tracer Bullet on May 26, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep Kolb
Don’t get me wrong, he’s no Vick. But the prospect of injury to Vick, could leave us with Kafka. I don’t know much about Kafka, but having the very best backup in the NFL in KK sounds great to me. Just because, we hold all the cards doesn’t mean we have to play them.
by budnicki_comedy on May 26, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
But what if Vick doesn’t get hurt and then after this season Kolb leaves in FA and we don’t get anything for him? That’d be a complete waste, and besides, there’s multiple veteran QBs in FA (or maybe even some kind of trade) that we can sign as a backup for Vick.
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
by PhiladelphiaEagles on May 26, 2011 1:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s easier to find a capable backup than it is an extra first round pick.
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I don’t get why people don’t understand that concept…
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
by PhiladelphiaEagles on May 26, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The "if " argument is a non- starter for me.
What if Vick does get hurt? What if he runs outside the pocket? What if he has a history of getting injured? What if he trade kolb to the cardinals and then we play them in the playoffs and he beats us? What if our "valuable " extra 1st rd pick gets injured( cough , brandon Graham )? If the price isn’t right for kolb then he is very valuable, if only for one season, to the eagles.
by Saidrick on May 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thats the point
I can play that game too. What if Vick plays entire year? What if Hasslebeck is our back up QB? What if we get 1st round pick for Kolb and Arizona misses the playoffs? What if our 1st round pick wins ROY? What if we DO play Kolb in playoffs and pick him off 3 times? What if Kafka turns into super back up? My point is, we have to play the game. If we can get a 1st rounder for Kolb then pull the trigger as quickly as you can. Like Jason said, its easier to find a back up QB then it is a 1st round pick.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on May 26, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That's where we disagree
I think a good back up qb is hard to find. Most of the good ones want to start and most of the rest are either junk: alex smith, or injury prone: hasselback, or both : alex smith…lol.
by Saidrick on May 26, 2011 3:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But signing someone
is a lot easier then having someone you can trade for a 1st round pick. Honestly, I’d love to have Alex Smith, Hasselbeck, Bulger or even Gradkowski as our back up QB. There are more I just dont feel like listing. Listen, if Vicki is hurt for a couple games then any one of these guys are capapble of at least holding down the fort. If Vick is out for the year we are screwed anyways. If your wanting to hold onto Kolb rather then trading him for a 1st round pick JUST IN CASE Vick has season ending injury then your just not playing the odds.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on May 26, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The question becomes:
When(or if) those “couple of games” happen. I want none of those qb’s in a playoff game. They are not good( because of Age and or talent) and have massive histories of getting injured. So then we are left with Kafka …really?
Plus with kolb, we could always pull Vick in the second half of a lopsided victory keep him fresh for a playoff run.
by Saidrick on May 26, 2011 5:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s not that easy to find a capable backup. Look at SanFran or AZ last season. If a potential vet QB is a part of the deal, it’s a differant deal. This article talked about a 1st rounder, and what I don’t like is another: Brandon Graham, Todd Pinkston, Corey Simon. So, if we don’t play the “if” game. We could lose the “F’d” game.
by budnicki_comedy on May 27, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Mustard Stain has a point
Even if Kolb is a system QB and is mediocre at best, he’s still a good upgrade for a team that has a lot of other pieces in place.
And we all know Kafka is not as good as Kolb, but you can’t hold onto Kolb just because Vick is gonna miss 3-4 games next season. You gotta deal him while the market is ripe (and its not getting better than this). Get your picks back, and translate it into players to win now, or rookies to win later.
I’d rather have my franchise tag available for another for next year, if its even available.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on May 26, 2011 1:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Unfortunately
We have experienced many times, that when things are too obvious, it probably won’t happen. I hope it’s not the case this time. I have to agree with Jason. Media treats this potential trade, as it already happened. The only thing they don’t know is compensation from Cards. Deal with Cards will be a win-win-win situation. Cards get a starting QB, Eagles get a good compensation(hopefully 1round pick), Kolb gets a possibility to start in the league.
I expect more!!!!!!!!!!!
Two second round picks? No, We have to keep Kolb if its only for two second round picks.
If Jay wimp ass, cry baby Cutler brings in:
“stolen from JimmyK” comment: 2009 – Jay Cutler for the 18th overall pick, 84th overall pick, 1st round pick in 2010, and Kyle Orton
We can and should get more then two second round picks for Kolb.
I my opinion that is the worst trade in history
I would rather have Orton then Cutler as my QB and 2 firsts and a third on top of it all makes it just ludicris
I thought..
That the Cardinals Head Coach specifically indicated that he is not interested in Kolb – but Larry Fitz is. . .
No, he never said that. He just said that Fitzgerald wouldn’t be picking their next QB
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I heard that too.
Whats the coach going to do though.
Coach Whisenhunt: Hey Larry, I think we are fine at the QB position. We dont need Kolb in here. We are going to go ahead and stick with Marc Bulger again this year.
Fitzgerald:: Thats cool coach, I have one more year on my contract and then I am outta here. Fuck y’all, Im headed too philly. At least Vick can hit me in stride. Peace Bitches!!!!!!!!
by greenage on May 26, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m pretty sure Martellus Bennett has already reached Jeff Francoeur status
"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
fuck, wrong window
"There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
by alcatraz0109 on May 26, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
by PhiladelphiaEagles on May 26, 2011 4:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we don't do better than 2 seconds for Kolb...
then It was a bad decision to draft him. He was the 36th pick in the 2007 draft. If you consider the draft value chart and figure that the Cards would be in the just miss/just make the playoff group over the next two years then your only getting the equivalent of a third round pick for grooming and paying him over the last four years.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
And if you want to take it a step further...
The whole trade with Dallas in the 2007 draft was a bust considering that we only got one above average year out of Bradley, nothing out of Gaddis and only 2 second rounders 5 years later for Kolb for our First rounder.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Two second round picks is the value of a third round pick?
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Let me do the math for you...
Pick no 36 chart value 540 points.
2 second round points around pick 53: 2 × 370 points = 740 points
740 – 540 = 200 points
200 points = 14th pick in the third round
You can’t forget what Kolb cost us to draft.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you beleive that the Cards will suck as bad as last year with Kolb?
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If they do...
Then I guess we’re getting a bargain for Kolb and we’re getting rid of him at the right time.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But it not as simple as trading the pick to a later year.
We got the player, used him, and had the option to keep him.
If we traded a second round pick right now, but got to choose what player was picked with it and had the option to “borrow” the player whenever we wanted over the next 4 years, then decide if we want the player to join the Eagles or take picks instead, the deal would be so much in our favor as to be ludicrous.
While the comparison is not perfect, it is as close as suggesting we traded a 2007 pick for a 2012 one.
by ATG. on May 26, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather have...
Zack Miller, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith,or Lamarr Woodley on my sideline for the last four years. All players of need at the time and drafted soon after Kolb.
I know, I know hindsight is 20/20
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kolb will yield the equivalent of a 1st…..
….And we can all rejoice for 2 reasons.
1. That would mean football is back!
2. We just robbed someone!
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on May 26, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions
Shhhhhh....
We’re not supposed to say that till he’s gone.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on May 26, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
2. We just robbed someone!
Haha. Totally not going to buy into Kolb until proven otherwise?
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
Basically, yea. I don’t think he sucks. But his perception has vaulted him to such heights that I am amazed. I think he is an avg qb with great receivers and an offense that loves to throw.
is it really that difficult to complete a checkdown?
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on May 26, 2011 7:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t know why anyone ever thought Kolb was even close to being better than Orton.
I never was a fan of Kolb but that is only because I haven’t seen anything from him that a NFL QB shouldn’t be able to do when playing with as good as an O we had. I think the hype behind Kolb came from Reid speaking how confident he is in him. And he filled in with good enough games. Either way Kolb has a chance of a lifetime! He proved so little and now has the chance to START, and run an offense with one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. Just hope Fitzgerald never ever ever finds out before a trade that when he gets open deep Kolb can’t get him the ball.
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