New NFC East Blogger Ranks QBs: 1st Vick, 5th Kolb
Supposedly Giants fans arent happy with this because in a ranking of the best QBs in the NFC East right NOW, they think Eli should be number one because he won a Super Bowl Ring three years ago.
about 1 year ago
anuj
215 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Typical reaction
Winning a SB is an incredible acomplishment, but it is a result of a TOTAL team effort (and quite possibly the luckiest ass catch in the history of football, except for maybe the Franco Harris shoe string catch). Mouth Breather didn’t win that game all by himself.
I don’t think anyone can look at the NFC East and seriously say that right now Mike Vick is not the best quarterback in the division. It’s hard to say that Romo and Eli can play to the level that Mike Vick can, so it’s hard to argue otherwise.
If the Giants want something to debate about, it’s how a QB who didn’t even play three quarters of a season last year was ranked in front of a QB who at least put up statistics. It’s a bit of a contradiction, since this list apparently incorporates how well players are playing now, not in the past. That’s something to get debated about, since I would have put Eli in front of Romo. Maybe even McNabb over Romo.
"Each guy in here has to look in the mirror and ask themselves: " - Brian Dawkins
Last season stats?
If you went by last season stats, the 30 turnovers would put Eli at #5
Yes, turnovers are big...I agree, but it really is overblown.
Why isn’t anybody questioning Drew Brees? He had 30some TDs and only 3 less INTs than Eli did. They had similar QB ratings and numbers otherwise. The Giants are also a much more run-based team than the Saints are, so Brees had more snaps than Eli as well.
Okay, he took the Saints to the playoffs – they only won 1 more game than the Giants or Eagles did. He couldn’t lead them past the 7-9 Seahawks.
Yet everyone’s on his jockstrap, and is a consensus top 3 QB. And Eli teh suckz. Makes perfect sense to me!
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
you just said it
the giants are a more run based team so of course Brees had more opportunities to throw an interception by just throwing the ball more. THink about it, if you throw more the chance for an interception is greater also. And even though he threw the ball more, he still had less INT’s then Eli.
So there it is, you answered your own question!!
And how are turnovers overblown? It’s something that takes the ball away from your offense…..THAT IS HUGE!!!
Your logic here is a bit off. So yes to you it should make perfect sense why Eli sucks.
sure it could be viewed both ways.
I can argue that Eli made more of the opportunities than Brees did. But that’s not why I’m arguing.
I’m arguing why, based on last season’s stats alone, Brees is a top 3 or 4 QB and Eli is mediocre.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed!
Brees throws more and has less interceptions the Eli on one of his off years. Eli is usually close to 50/50 on TD/INT.
So Brees is a top 5 QB easily while Eli may sit around the top 10…..maybe.
hmm
Eli is usually close to 50/50 on TD/INT.
Nope.
Past two years, Eli has gone 27 TDs/14 INTs and 21 TDs/10 INTs. This last year was an off year.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
it was an off year because
the two previous years he didn’t have those numbers? in his careen he throws a INT for every 1.38 TD he throws that is not very good for a QB that you are arguing is supposted to be SO VERY GOOD. He has to be over at least 1.5 TD/INT ratio, but he’s not ever close.
I'm not going to sit here and argue that he was very good for the first part
of his career.
Hell, Peyton Manning had 1 win in his entire rookie season. But ya know, when a QB comes off a Superbowl MVP performance, than has two excellent seasons in a row, that that qualifies as him being very good.
I could come right back around and throw your argument back at you. Michael Vick is so godly, right? His QB rating before last season wasn’t above a 75. He had a TD/INT of GUESS WHAT? 1.38.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
In other words...
Vick had on off year?
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
according to those stats
vick had an off “career” when it came to passing the ball until last year.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
lol. 50/50.
you know that means half and half right.
it’s like me saying the eagles usuaully play 50/50
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And Nicks was out for a quarter of the season
and Steve Smith was out for 8 games. So for 4 games, Eli was out his #1 and #2 WR. We quite literally picked up WRs off the street. Our starting trio was Mario Manningham, Derek Hagan, and Mark Clayton.
On top of that, Bradshaw was hobbled by 2 broken feet.
I want to see how Vick does without Desean and Maclin, and with McCoy hobbling around.
Or how Romo does without Austin and Dez (we got to see that towards the tail end of the season…cowboys productivity dropped through the air).
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yes this i know
but are’t the Giants a run first offense. A little play action can go along way.
Besides WR do mean something but not everything. McNabb many years had nobody to throw too and he was routinely lower in the INT list then Eli ever would be. With Thrash and Pinkston can you tell me he ever had a great WR core. So WR can help but it’s the QB who still throws the ball to the other team. So this is still on Eli.
respectfully disagree
WR chemistry is crucial.
Giants went into panic mode, and took WRs that Eli had little or no time to practice with and get a rapport with them. I think it was something like 16 or 17 of his INTs came after Steve Smith went down halfway through the season.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed to respectfully disagree
It’s all about your depth in a lot of situations. And that can hurt if the receiver reads the defense one way and the QB reads it a different way and the pattern ran doesn’t match the pattern thrown. But, it’s still on the QB to play smart football and be a leader and not throw the ball away.
First half of the season Eli had 11 INT and the second half he had 14. So it’s pretty close. I’m not sure when Smith got hurt, but either way he wasn’t taking care of the ball that well to begin with.
Turnovers are critical in a football game considering you may have less then 10 possessions a lot of games, you have to do everything possible with the ball. So turnovers are crazy important, and over his career he’s shown not to be the best at protecting the ball.
touche.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Had you been over here longer than a week you would know that we have in fact been questioning Drew Brees.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
How is Kolb not #4? Any Skins QB ranking should be hovering around Kitna, and perhaps even Jared Lorenzen, McGee and/or Ryan Perriloux (for all that Beck has produced).
I would much rather have Kolb than McNabb at this point.
I was wondering that myself. The Lolskins QB’s were awful. Just terrible.
by 92-74-99-96 on May 20, 2011 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is funny how much this matters
The super bowl win was a huge team effort, and the MVP going to Manning tarnished the meaning of the title. The award should be scrapped and just called QB of SuperBowl winner.
I was thinking about what I fear when the Eagles play an NFC East opponent.
With the Cowboys you have to worry about that damn tight end, and hope that the rookie ( last year) doesnt burn you, and then the UDFA stud receiver doesnt light you up also. These items require a QB.
With the Giants, the concern is about the defensive line and how disruptive they are… good luck scoring ( when the refs actually decide to call offensive holding) .
The Redskins you just hope they dont play well enough to embarass you .
If I were looking at the Eagles the same way… You have to fear the receivers burning you , A LOT . When Vick is in , you also have to worry about being embarassed when he just decides to take over a game. He is easily the biggest threat at QB in the division right now.
Literally my thought as I read this: “In ranking QBs based on who is better right now, there is a controversy over putting Romo ahead of Eli but not putting McNabb ahead of Kolb???”
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I dunno, I think I might take Eli over Romo. It’s closer than Giants fans think though.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
Actually
I agree. It is Romo sucking ass in the clutch that puts him firmly behind Eli right now. Yes, pun intended. And I don’t have a problem with Vick at one after last year. By the end of this year we’ll probably have a different order, depending on what happens this year. All three are good enough to win the SB with the right supporting cast. So this stuff shouldn’t get anybody in a lather anyway.
Go Giants!
It is really close.
Both QB’s are capable of leading a team to a title IMO. Eli however, has one in the bank. And he played outstanding football during that run in 2007. 6 TD’s, 1 INT (that wasn’t his fault), 0 fumbles, 61.3% completion, 95.6 QB rating.
And he outplayed the Favre, Brady, and (ahem) Romo. All on the road. Impressive.
Just get it done already...
Iv'e seen this alot.
The Giants are no longer a “run first offense.” In 2010 they were 30th in rushing attempts. In 2009 they were 20th.
Just get it done already...
i'm not impressed with romo. i' prefer kolb over him
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I've changed my stance on all of this.
Please, I want all of the media to just shit on the Giants. Please do it. Count us out.
Tell us we’re going to get our ass handed to us by the Redskins. That our QB is some mentally handi-capped good-for-nothing that can’t lead for shit and has no business being in the NFL. That our RBs are injury prone and that our receivers are shit. That our defense is overrated. The Giants like it that way.
I want to be the only one laughing when the season is winding down and Eli throws that 4th quarter TD for a last second win for the division title.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Trapped between a backups hand, and his helmet.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
I know. They should give us extra for style points
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That 4th quarter TD for a last second win and a division title?
It’s going to Asante.
Nope
I predict it goes right through his hands, like it did during that Superbowl
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That's cool...
…it being the last second and all.
touche
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That was Ellis Hobbs. How would a giants fan not know that?!?!?!
"If I can get you to think twice, I'm in your head."
-Brian Dawkins
"Yeah, I like to hit people"
-Brandon Graham
by immynimmy on May 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
agree. we always preform to high levels when counted out
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So, what does Vick being ranked number one really mean to Eagles fans?
Do you guys get a first round bye and home field advantage throughout because of this pole?
Vick obviously had a great year last season and Eli did not…emphasize the NOT. Eli is still the most successful QB in the division.
By the way…Vick had 4 people show up to his camp and one of those guys plays for the Vikings. Anyone want to compare the 5 Giants that showed up for Eli’s much ridiculed workout to those numbers?
sigh...
do you have a link for that last statement?
also, who cares about past success? That’s not at all what this article was about. This article was about how good the quarterbacks are. If we were going off success then Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson would be right up there. I also found this which probably won’t make you too happy. Superbowls don’t make the quarterback great. Performance does.
"I don’t know whether I prefer Astroturf to grass. I never smoked Astroturf." - Joe Namath
The quarterback said last week that he expected about 15 players at the practice, although it appeared the group that showed up was much smaller. Eagles tight end Brent Celek, wide receivers Jason Avant and Jeremy Maclin and Minnesota Vikings running back Albert Young were on hand for the session, which WPVI-TV attended.
sigh...
Quality over quantity? And why are you so salty? You went off like there was mass celebration and defecation on Giants jersey occuring. Even if it were, this is an Eagles blog.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
You're also wrong
Just because NFL.com mentions 4 players by name does not mean they were the only ones in attendance :
so which article is right?
the bleacher report or the NFL one?
One says 15 were there and names 4 players and the other says 15 were ‘expected’ but coincidentally only mentions the same four players. I’ll believe the NFL.com piece that was attended by a TV station in that area.
It’s weird that the NFL article just happened to omit the same 11 players that the Bleacher Report piece didn’t mention.
sigh...
I mean seriously?
I give them both credibility because they named the same four players. Don’t you think that maybe they were the only ones mentioned because they were the only ones that are recognizable by face? Or by name?
But here we have it. One site names 4 players and says there were 15 in attendance. The other site only names the 4 players and says there were less than what Vick expected.
Either way, neither of them say “only 4 players showed up” so anyone looking objectively might guess there were a few less than 15 players. Maybe 10-12.
"I don’t know whether I prefer Astroturf to grass. I never smoked Astroturf." - Joe Namath
That "other site" is NFL.com
and “recognizable by face”? Really? We are talking about Vick’s team mates…if NFL.com or Bleacher Report can’t recognize Vick’s team mates by face or name then they have a bigger problem than we could have imagined. Even the draft choices will be recognizable and any UDFA with any chance of playing in this league isn’t going to go incognito at Vick’s first organized workout that was attended by the press.
So, anyone looking objectively might guess 10-12 players showed up because 2 sites never said “only” four sites showed up? So, what makes 10-12 an objective guess?
We’re really just arguing in circles because I do see what you’re saying and you could be right but all I’ve seen could be correct as well. We both should just be satisfied that the players are doing something to start getting ready for the season.
sigh...
Are we still doing this? Seriously? Are we really still arguing over which team is having more of these light workouts?
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/
by JimmyK on May 20, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eli
Other then the Superbowl run Eli is 0-3 in the playoffs. He had that one good playoff run, yes I’ll give you that. But there was a hell of a lot of luck involved. First he got out of a defenders grasp to throw a lucky bomb and catch. Eli never breaks away from a defender he just drops when he is touched.
So he had a good run, but only once and a lot of luck was involved. Besides the defense that year had more to do with that Superbowl run then Eli.
Alot of luck involved?
You seem to be focusing on two (?) plays in the Super Bowl. For the 4 games, he threw 6 TD"s, 1 INT (not his fault), 0 fumbles, 61.3% compltion, 95.6 QB rating. All on the road. And he beat Favre, Brady, and Romo. Not to shabby.
But hey, I’m used to defending him. It’s all good. And fun…
Just get it done already...
smh people putting Kolb in front of McNabb
McNabb has a strong finish to his career as an Eagles, and easily a top 10 QB.
Then he goes to the shitty ass redskins who have no talents at the skills positions (they had joey Galloway as their 2nd WR!!), shitty ass Oline, a transitioning D that ranks 31st in the league, and then he had the Father/son coach combo that kept on humiliating him left and right all throughout the season. Suddenly everyone acts like:
“Boy, I sure am glad we got rid of him, because he totally would have been JUST AS bad in Philly. And his finishing stats as an eagles totally support that”
if you are going for Kolb just because he is younger, then ok i’ll give you that. but don’t act like McNabb still doesn’t have a solid 2-3 more seasons left in him with a good team. Even with the age factor i would take McNabb over Kolb any day in our system.
I'm not an Eagles fan, but....this
McNabb got shafted by the Skins…no WRs, no OL, no RBs
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true
I’m definitely glad we traded him and I was really excited for Kolb. The average fan would look and say “Hey, we traded McNabb to start Kolb so Kolb must be better.”
That’s just not true. I was going to counter with “Just because his team is bad doesn’t mean he should throw that many interceptions” but it’s still skewed. With a terrible O-line and below average receivers, of course a QB is going to look worse than he is.
But then again, you can interpret the question with “Best QB? Well, who would I want most on my team?” I think if that were the way one ranked these guys, Kolb would be ahead of McNabb.
"I don’t know whether I prefer Astroturf to grass. I never smoked Astroturf." - Joe Namath
yay promotion!
Eli should have edged Romo for the second spot. While Romo shines in the regular season, Eli has won more clutch games and handles himself better then Romo under pressure.
I wanna say that McNabb got thrown into a shitty situation and deserves the 4th spot, but he did the exact same things he did in Philly. Overthrown open receivers, balls in the dirt on slants, etc. Kolb should be 4th.
"This team (Philadelphia Eagles) gives me the best chance of winning a Super Bowl."
-Michael Vick #7
we dont. whoever wrote this is an idiot
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick is by far the most dangerous QB in the league, and the most productive QB in the NFL
Lets have a look at each starting QB’s totals from last season:
Eagles – Michael Vick:
Passing Yards per Game: 251.5 (on course for 4024 for the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 1.75 (on course for 28 for the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 56.3 (on course for 901.3 for the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0.75 (on course for 12 for the season)
Turnovers per Game: 0.75 (on course for 12 on the season)
Cowboys – Tony Romo:
Passing Yards per Game: 267.5 (on course for 4280 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 1.83 (on course for 29 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 6.3 (on course for 101.3 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0 (on course for 0 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 1.16 (on course for 19 on the season)
Giants – Eli Manning:
Passing Yards per Game: 250.1 (4002 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 1.93 (31 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 4.4 (70 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0 (0 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 1.9 (30 on the season)
Redskins – Donovan McNabb:
Passing Yards per Game: 259.8 (on course for 4156 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 1.1 (on course for 17 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 11.6 (on course for 185 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0 (on course for 0 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 1.23 (on course for 20 on the season)
This is a crude way of comparison as it is impossible to predict how Romo, McNabb & Vick would’ve performed in the games they missed. So the ranks they were given are correct:
1) Vick – 1st in TD’s per Game (2.5) , 1st in Turnovers per Game (0.75), 1st in Yards per Game (307.8)
2) Romo – Similar stats to Eli, but less turnovers given away
3) Eli – Worst in turnovers per Game
4) McNabb – Worst in all categories except turnovers.
In my opinion he is the most productive QB in the NFL, compare him to Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady:
Packers – Aaron Rodgers:
Passing Yards per Game: 261.47 (on course for 4138 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 1.87 (on course for 30 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 23.7 (on course for 380 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0.3 (on course for 5 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 0.8 (on course for 13 on the season)
Patriots – Tom Brady:
Passing Yards per Game: 243.75 (3900 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 2.25 (36 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 1.9 (30 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0.06 (1 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 0.3 (5 on the season)
Colts – Peyton Manning
Passing Yards per Game: 293.75 (4700 on the season)
Passing TD’s per Game: 2.06 (33 on the season)
Rushing Yards per Game: 1.1 (18 on the season)
Rushing TD’s per Game: 0 (0 on the season)
Turnovers per Game: 1.1 (18 on the season)
As you can see from above, Vick was on course to produce more TD’s than any other QB in the NFL (and isn’t THAT what the job of a QB is to do?)
by Brawnybalboa on May 20, 2011 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Currently, if any fan, Giants or otherwise, says that Eli is better than Vick
(notice I said currently), they’re being somewhat unrealistic.
And thank you for stating this:
This is a crude way of comparison as it is impossible to predict how Romo, McNabb & Vick would’ve performed in the games they missed
There might be games where Romo could pull a Jay Cutler and throw it away 4 times to DeAngelo Hall or something. I think Romo’s and Eli’s numbers are close enough to warrant debate on who is better by including intangible qualities such as “clutch-ness,” playoff performance, durability, etc.
And of course Giants fans will pick Eli, and Cowboys fans will pick Romo.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
as much as i like to hate on Eli
If you were to trade the QBs , and put all of the pressure of playing in NY on Romo while forcing him to just do his job in a run focused offense, he would really crumble. Eli would prove to have much more of this “clutch-ness”
For this scenario… I wonder what McNabb would do… he may be great at the run first gameplan, obviously not good at short passing ( may make Giants much better by stretching the field better) , and his thin skin would be epic.
To be fair to Romo, being the Cowboys QB isn’t without pressure. And, he’s handled his share of media attention as a member the star f*cker club.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
each QB is in the right place for them
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed, but if the question is who is better, not who fits their current system best, then I think Eli wins in a switched situation.
I dunno. Like I said, I would favor Eli over Romo objectively… but I actually think Romo would be more successful in NY than Eli in Dallas if they switched today. I just think Eli could potentially get killed behind that Dallas line (even though it did improve as the season wore on).
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
Romo is absolutely the more mobile QB so you might be right
Eli runs about as well as a duck on a cocaine high.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Aflac has it’s next commercial.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
true, but I think the NY media is a bit different. Playing in Dallas gets a lot of national attention, but that doesnt seem to be as “in you face” as NY can be. The media slaughter that would have occurred after the drop field goal would have been so much worse. I also think that Giants fans tend to be more dedicated as they are localized instead of the national bandwagon that produces Dallas pressure.
and the media blitz from TMZ? totally different. I like my privacy, but I could deal with my picture all over the internet next to some of the ass he has gotten !
By pressure, I meant Jerruh. I would manually asphyxiate that man if I had to work for him.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
I believe we prefer the term "classy"
But I’m sure y’all have seen enough of that term being thrown around for the last couple of weeks hahahahaha
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Iv'e seen this term used alot.
The Giants are no longer a run first offense. In 2010 they were 30th in the league in rushing attempts, in 2009 they were 20th.
Just get it done already...
Yeah, I agree. They’re close as far as their positives.
Romo is more athletic and can do more with his legs, Eli probably has the better arm. Romo is a little better with the ball, while I wouldn’t say he’s nearly as “clutch” as Eli.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
well then
the eagles never won a superbowl so vick should last. the redskins have which means McNabb is better than Vick.
by Philly O's on May 20, 2011 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
no usage of sarcasm font indicates that you're serious.
REC’D
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
how is this front page? no giants fans think eli is the better player than vick.
vick’s athleticsism are superior. eli’s intangibles are superior.
there is no pointin comparing them. they are 2 different players. (ones a rb who converted into qb. and the other is someone who wanted to play saftey in high school)
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
eli’s intangibles are superior.
I love how you Giants fans just make shit up. Better intangibles? What’s your basis for saying that? Is it how clutch Eli is (fumbles the ball when no one touches him late, can’t drive his team down the field to win the game in the 4th)? Is it the smart decisions (turned the ball over more than anyone else)? Was it his ability to rally his team around him when they were struggling (only 1 comeback win and they collapses late in the season)? Was it his inspiring speeches?
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
not going say superior intangibles, but you can't say he can't rally the team or drive 'em down the field
but Eli has 14 4th quarter comebacks, and 17 game winning drives…according to profootballreference, by far the most of any quarterbacks in the East.
That’s the only statistical proof I can offer.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
this
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
can't drive his team down the field? i was gonna respond intelligently until i saw the comment i was responding to was unintelligent
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I was talking about the Miracle at the Meadowlands 2 where he has about 2-3 opportunities to drive his offense down the field and put the game away and he couldn’t do it.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
meh
he had one or two shots at it, but that game was a testament to a defensive collapse more than anything. He still put up 30+ points in that game so you can’t blame him.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
Eli was maybe the only Giant who didnt have a hand in pissing that away
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
him and kiwanuka
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd say he had maybe one shot.
remember when we were driving down the field to close it out and ,and manningham fumbled it? or when our 5th string recievers that were on the field dropped every other pass?
and what bbi said above. it was a defense colapse capped off by special teams colapses
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick is better than Eli, no debate.
When Vick’s not hurt, he’s better than anyone, last year made that pretty clear.
However, does he have the stuff to win a Super Bowl?
Up to this point, all we can say is ‘No’ at worst, and ‘Maybe’ at best. Because that’s all we’ve been shown.
Can Eli? Yes. No question. No debate. Undoubtedly, yes.
For that reason, and that reason alone, I would still take Eli over Vick.
Romo was obviously ranked second to stimulate conversation.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 4:58 PM EDT reply actions
Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, and Jim McMahon agree.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
Interestingly enough
Eli has more Super MVPs than all of those fine gentlemen combined.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me
Forgot Rypien had won one.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah and Rypien
led the 14-2 Redskins #1 ranked offense to 30 points a game that year. For 485 points. The most ever scored by a team in any year at that point. And he threw 30 TD’s and only 11 INT’s.
He may have been a “one hit wonder” that year. But he got it done from start to finish in 1991. He was not a good addition to that list up there.
Just get it done already...
Sure he was.
Perfect example of the squirrel factor.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
The superbowl argument just seems like a cop-out to me.
Yes, Manning won a superbowl… I’m not going to take that away from him. But all things equal, from this point forward, would you really take Eli out of that list of guys to win a superbowl?
Lists are fun.
All quarterbacks in NFL History to throw for 3,000 yards and 20+ TDs for five consecutive seasons (or more).
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Quarterbacks who have started 100+ games (or more) consecutively in NFL History.
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Ron Jaworski
Tom Brady
Joe Ferguson
Eli Manning
Two quarterbacks in the history of the NFL have thrown for two go ahead fourth quarter touchdowns in the biggest game in all of sports, the Super Bowl.
Joe Montana
Eli Manning
Yea, Vick is prettier on paper, but I’ll stick with Eli….no doubt about it.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, Vick is prettier on paper
And he’s a better football player, too.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/
better athlete. better player. but not a better qb
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Not what the stats or eyes say.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
this is exactly wht the stats and eyes say.
vick is the better athlete. vick is the better player.
eli is the better qb.
explain to me why you don’t agree with that
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Michael Vick: 3,018 yards, 62.6% of passes completed, 21 TDs, 8.1 YPA, 6 interceptions, 676 rushing yards, 9 rushing touchdowns, 9 total turnovers. And all of that is despite missing 5 games.
Eli Manning: 4,002 yards, 62.9% of passes completed, 31 TDs, 7.4 YPA, 25 interceptions, 70 rushing yards and 30 total turnovers.
Per game numbers:
Michael Vick: 274 passing yards per game, 1.9 passing TDs per game, .54 interceptions per game, 61 rushing yards per game, .82 rushing TDs per game, .82 turnovers per game, 2.72 touchdowns per game.
Eli Manning: 250 passing yards per game, 1.9 passing TDs per game, 1.56 interceptions per game, 4.3 rushing yards per game and 1.875 turnovers per game.
You must’ve missed the part where Michael Vick had 21 less turnovers than Eli Manning.
Or how about his 4 comeback wins compared to Eli’s 1. Or how about their deep ball, Michael Vick had the best deep ball in the game. Michael Vick had the 8th highest DVOA in the NFL, Eli Manning had the 20th. And that doesn’t even count non-statistical things like the fact that Michael Vick is a better leader than Eli Manning is.
Eli Manning isn’t even a top 10 QB, Michael Vick is the most dynamic (note, not the best) QB in the NFL. It’s not even close.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
thanks for proving my point with most of what you said (which btw was completley unnecassry)
the stats completley prove my point, thanks.
And that doesn’t even count non-statistical things like the fact that Michael Vick is a better leader than Eli Manning is.
lol, someone who has been with the team for one year, a known slacker. who is all me and doesnt give a shit about anyone else is a better leader than eli. thats just a dumb statement. eli is one of the best leaders in the game.
Eli Manning isn’t even a top 10 QB
first of all, yes he is. second of all, your opinion does not matter on this.
i wish you payed attention to when i said lets not compare them cuz they are not comparable. the fact that you went off like that, makes you look just plain dumb. and you are only using last years stats. eli is the better qb. vick is the better player. don’t be an idiot
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait… So stats don’t count? What are we supposed to judge players by? The feeling they give you inside? You’ve already proven that you’re a joke when it comes to comparing players when you said Hakeem Nicks is better than Maclin because he has more one handed catches and gives you a good feeling when you watch him.
And tell me how Eli is the superior QB when I have clearly proven the opposite.
And Michael Vick is a known slacker? You might want to switch that sentence around and put that into past tense because that isn’t true anymore. Vick is the leader of the most explosive offense in the NFL, he led the third youngest team in the NFL to the playoffs, he led 4 comebacks this past season, he taught the young players how to be professional, he led a winning culture, he is organizing off season workouts, he has illustrated the importance of practice and preparation to the young players, he is the go to guy for the locker room. Michael Vick is the leader of this team and to call him a slacker is just lazy. Michael Vick is now a noted hard working player who put the time in and completely overhauled his game to become second in MVP voting.
eli is the better qb. vick is the better player.
Are you fucking retarded? They play the same position, there are none of the semantic games you’re trying to play. One is better than the other, it’s simple really. I’ve proven Michael Vick is better and until you prove otherwise you’re wrong and simply telling me I’m wrong isn’t proving anything. So, get to it, tell me why Eli is better than Vick. Remember, you can't use stats. You’re a joke.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just curious
If both players retired today, who would you say had the more impressive career?
In other words, who would you consider the better quarterback?
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Better career at this point? Eli. That’s not what we’re debating though and Eli while having a better career than Vick at this point, has not had anything more than an average career.
“How would you rank the current NFC East QBs?”
1. Vick 2. Romo 3. Eli 4. McNabb 5. Kolb 6. Beck/Grossman
3: generally accepted, used, practiced, or prevalent at the moment
Current implies present tense, not career achievement. And the fact of the matter is that based on what we last saw, what is current, Michael Vick is a better player than Eli Manning is. Do not twist this debate because you’re shifting topics. If we’re looking for career achievement rankings, that’s an entirely different issue.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it applies to this debate very much.
Michael Vick is the older quarterback, who is far more injury prone.
If anyone had a drastic “statistical anomaly” of a season, it was Michael Vick. While I agree he was undoubtedly the better player LAST season, there’s quite a bit of statistical evidence that would suggest he might not be able to duplicate that THIS season.
His 76.3 average QB Rating in the six years before coming to Philly, and his inability to complete an entire season (with the exception of 2006) would attest to that.
So while anyone who knows anything about football would agree Michael Vick was better than Eli last year, it’s not exactly open and shut that he will continue to be better in the upcoming season, in my humble opinion.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Michael Vick is the older quarterback
By six months, you left that part out.
If anyone had a drastic "statistical anomaly" of a season, it was Michael Vick. While I agree he was undoubtedly the better player LAST season, there’s quite a bit of statistical evidence that would suggest he might not be able to duplicate that THIS season.
Statistically this argument is well founded but unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Eagles fans) we don’t live in a world ruled by numbers and statistics. The people affect the numbers, not the other way around. By simply using stats you’re completely ignoring Vick’s complete shift in lifestyle, attitude and his growth as a person. You’re also forgetting that he has never been with a better coaching staff. You’re also forgetting that he has never had this much talent around him.
There was actually a nice little article on this on ESPN this morning.
Now, he’s the team’s unquestioned leader. The runner-up in a fan vote for the “Madden NFL 12” cover. The likely first pick in every 2011 fantasy draft. One of the most significant, interesting and popular players in the entire league. Next month he’ll be a graduation speaker at a school for troubled kids. One of the folks he beat out for that honor is the mayor of Philadelphia.
Vick’s transformation is remarkable. He hasn’t just kept himself out of trouble. He hasn’t just returned to the level he occupied before his dogfighting crimes sent him to prison. He’s exceeded that level, along with every expectation he, Reid, Tony Dungy, Roger Goodell or the criminal justice system could reasonably have had for him.
That’s just off the field. On the field he is completely changed as a QB thanks to the crafting of Andy Reid and Marty Morninwheg who have coached Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mark Brunell, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb and now Michael Vick. Plus Andy Reid is the guy who convinced Mike Holmgren to draft Matt Hasselbeck.
It is my opinion that the fundamental changes that Michael Vick has made on and off the field will keep him from a regression to what he was in Atlanta.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a very fair opinion.
I however fall under the category of see it to believe it. So forgive me if I choose to take the “wait and see” approach, and assume that the likelihood of Vick falling back down to a statistical season more close to his career average (which was very consistent over a 6-7 year period), is more likely than continuing to play out of his mind like he did last year.
I noticed you touched on his age, but not his inability to stay healthy for an entire season. I think it’s quite clear his style of play has never been on the safe side, and should he continue that style injuries are definitely something that will continue to occur.
Something that should definitely be factored into the discussion wouldn’t you agree? Especially considering Eli Manning is on the complete opposite of the spectrum, never missing a start in his entire career.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Most of this is amenable, I don’t necessarily agree with all of it but none of it is wrong.
The one thing I do have to say is that while Vick has not proven to be the most durable player, when on the field he has proven to be the more impactful and dynamic player.
Per game numbers*:
Michael Vick: 269 passing yards per game, 1.9 passing TDs per game, .54 interceptions per game, 60 rushing yards per game, .82 rushing TDs per game, .82 turnovers per game, 2.72 touchdowns per game.
Eli Manning: 250 passing yards per game, 1.9 passing TDs per game, 1.56 interceptions per game, 4.3 rushing yards per game and 1.875 turnovers per game.
*I took out the Redskins game because he played 2 drives.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, of course that's true.
But again, that’s last year, and last year alone.
If we were going to take a look at their careers as a whole, you yourself said Eli is Michael Vicks superior, which is why I hold hope (as a Giants fan) that the statistical anomaly Michael Vick had last year will not be repeated.
Next year will certainly go a long way in settling this debate, although I’m sure it will be a far cry for closing it, this is of course assuming Vick can say on the field for meaningful playing time.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
If we were going to take a look at their careers as a whole, you yourself said Eli is Michael Vicks superior, which is why I hold hope (as a Giants fan) that the statistical anomaly Michael Vick had last year will not be repeated.
If we were flipping coins, then yes Vick’s season would be considered a statistical “anomaly” compared to his career and one would expect to not be repeated. However, as d-jackfan10 has already pointed out, we are dealing with human beings who change, both physically and mentally.
Statistically this argument is well founded but unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Eagles fans) we don’t live in a world ruled by numbers and statistics. The people affect the numbers, not the other way around. By simply using stats you’re completely ignoring Vick’s complete shift in lifestyle, attitude and his growth as a person. You’re also forgetting that he has never been with a better coaching staff. You’re also forgetting that he has never had this much talent around him.
Based upon your argument, Favre’s year last year was a statistical “anomaly” compared to his career, so he should make yet another comeback!
UConn dominance:
- Men's: 2011 National Champs, BET Champs, Kembawesome
- Football: BE Reg. Season Champs, Fiesta Bowl appearance, Todman
- Women's: Final Four appearance, Maya, BE Reg. Season Champs, BET
- Baseball: BE Reg. Season Champs, Springer
- Men's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field: 2011 Big East Champs, Aaron King
18-1
1967: Embrace it
Based upon your argument, Favre’s year last year was a statistical "anomaly" compared to his career, so he should make yet another comeback!
I don’t see the connection.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
The "your" was referring to tito
I was connecting Favre to tito’s belief that based upon Vick’s season being an anomaly compared to his career that it likely he will regress back to Falcon Vick.
I was just pointing out that based upon that logic, that Favre’s season last year was an “anomaly” compared to his career. So therefore he will regress back up to his career average’s. And if that’s the case Favre should be making another comeback.
UConn dominance:
- Men's: 2011 National Champs, BET Champs, Kembawesome
- Football: BE Reg. Season Champs, Fiesta Bowl appearance, Todman
- Women's: Final Four appearance, Maya, BE Reg. Season Champs, BET
- Baseball: BE Reg. Season Champs, Springer
- Men's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field: 2011 Big East Champs, Aaron King
18-1
1967: Embrace it
Ahh, okay. I thought you were talking to me.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
Nope
Backing you up haha.
UConn dominance:
- Men's: 2011 National Champs, BET Champs, Kembawesome
- Football: BE Reg. Season Champs, Fiesta Bowl appearance, Todman
- Women's: Final Four appearance, Maya, BE Reg. Season Champs, BET
- Baseball: BE Reg. Season Champs, Springer
- Men's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field: 2011 Big East Champs, Aaron King
18-1
1967: Embrace it
Wait… So stats don’t count?
i gave up on reading your post with those words. you did not red a thing i said. think what you want. but know your wrong
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You completely tossed aside my statistical arguments saying they were invalid, which means that you said stats don’t count. Do you even read what you write? Jesus.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
no, i did not toss it aside or say it was nvalid.
you did not listen to what i said first. you waisted however mych time you put into making those stats.
again mike vick is the better athlete and football player.
but he is not the better qb, someday i hope you understand this
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for proving my point with most of what you said (which btw was completley unnecassry)
i wish you payed attention to when i said lets not compare them cuz they are not comparable. the fact that you went off like that, makes you look just plain dumb.
If that isn’t tossing what I said aside and calling it invalid I don’t know what is.
Michael Vick is the better football player? They play the same position in the game of football and Vick is the better football player? You just said Vick > Manning.
And Oh. My. God. You keep saying that but you never have any evidence that supports you. Support your argument or you just look like an idiot.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yes. vick>manning. no one disagree's
no, vick is not a better qb. i don’t know why this is hard to understand. do you need me to explain?
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you realize that makes absolutely no fucking sense at all? How is Eli Manning the better QB but Vick is the better player when they play the same position?
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
if you need me to explain, i will
tommorow
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Please, do.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
m'kay.
michael vick. better player=better statistics, (rushing yard, passing yard, etc..)
great speed, great athletiscism, and what not.
eli manning. better qb= better intangibals (leadership, awareness, clutchyness, lol i said clutchyness)
good accuracy, great football mind, instincts great, plays up to the hypes of games. leads his teams on come backs, handles pressure extremley well, is NOT a distraction to his team, knows players strengths and weaknesses, studies tape like a preist studies the bible.
vick does the player things better than eli.
eli does the better qb things better than vick
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you basing all that on?
Id say Vicks instincts are pretty great. You see those runs he breaks off? if that isnt instincts what is? Vick leads comebacks, i think you even might remember it. 6 mins to come back….but that wasnt vick was it. Idt Vick is a distraction anymore. IF they havent gotten used to it by now its on them not him. Vick def studies tape now, if this was falcon Vick then ya you would have a point. I think Vick handles pressure well once again 6 mins to stage a comeback is pressure enough. Having to deal with scrutiny in every single action is pressure.
Your whole “Better player” thing is a crock of shit. They both are qbs. If someone said to me that QB1 is a “Better player” than QB2 i would assume that meant he was the better QB. It doesnt make any sense to say it like that
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
it does.
what you said about vick. eli is better at.
i did not say vick wasn’t good at it.
but eli is better at those things.
i’m tired of you guys down playing eli like he’s nothing. he is great at what he needs to do in this system.
i hate comparing these 2 players cause they are 2 completley dif. players in 2 different systems. therfore should not be compared
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Where did I downplay ELi?
And how do you quantify something like the things you listed? YOu cant because they arent quantifiable. Either you do or you dont. You cant really be better at them. Your talking out of your ass and just saying ELi is better and expecting us to just role with it. Give me a legit provable reason why.
And they are both QBS therefore comparing them is free game. youve been so gung ho to compare them till someone challenged you to actually defend what you were saying
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
how many times have i told you they are not comparable. they are not comparable.
i’ll say it again. they are NOT comparable.
stop telling me that i ever tried to compare them. i did not, all of you guys just assumed that we think eli is better. non of us do, and it really pissed me off. eli is not the better player than vick. not at all.
but as to who i’d prefer to lead my team, it’s eli. eli imo is the better qb. i think his awarness is better because of the plays i’ve seen him make. he’s a lot more like his brother than you guys think.
i’ve seen him elude the sack numerous times.
i’ve seen him make throws that i have not seen anyone else make b4, great, dead accurate throws.
i’ve seen him make ridiculous throws that have me thinking wtf is he doing starting? and that is what is holding him back. his brilliancy at times and his stupidity that he does atleast once every week or 2
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
you realize of course you were comparing them in that comment right
They are comparable but ok Ill let you keep your exit strategy on this
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
not an exit stradegy. they should not be compared.
it’s like comparing jacobs and chris johnson. it should not be done.
think what you want. and i’ll know what i know
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Know what you know?
Dude youve been comparing them this entire time. your being fucking retarded. Your too “High and mighty” to have a football discussion but when we try you wont make an effort except to say"Cant do that guys" after you did it the entire time. You said Eli was the better qb thats a comparison. either argue your point intelligently or admit you have no idea wtf your saying
then again you are 15 so nvm you arent capable of having this discussion
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
. Your too "High and mighty" to have a football discussion but when we try
i dont wanna have any discussion comparing eli to anyone. i am to homeristic on it. and the hings i do know that aren’t homeristic you guys haven’t listened to.
you wanna talkfootball we can talk something else, but i defend eli like i defend my girl, wether i’m right in doing it or not. so i dont wanna get into this at all. i get to angry wanna someone makes a stupid aargument about it like some of yoour guys arguments have been. wanna talk football? choose the topic
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
dont group all 15 yrs in with
I was 15 last yr I could have a discussion
AKA Detective Electric
by Mr.electric10 on May 21, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re going to say that someone is better, that cannot be done with comparing them. I think you don’t want them to be compared, because you don’t really have an argument to make.
I’ll make one point and let’s see if you can handle that?
Preparedness: You say Eli that has better preparation. Based on pre-prison Michael Vick and Eli, that is probably a fair assumption. Based on last season’s Vick and Manning, it doesn’t hold up well.
For the sake of argument, let’s just assume that Eli prepared more last season than Vick did. Vick still outperformed Eli last season, so wouldn’t that mean that Vick didn’t need quite as much preparation or that his preparation was more efficient?
I tried to come up with an example for Eli to have prepared better than Vick, but there’s no hypothetical scenario in which that matters in a relevant way.
To be blunt, being better prepared but not as successful just means that you’re not as successful.
There’s the intelligent discourse you’ve whined about. If you can handle this, then you may get more.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
Let's debunk some of this...
Better leadership and awareness is questionable at best but there is no way to prove these things. If anything the most telling thing about the awareness is the 30 turnovers Eli had in comparison to Mike Vick’s 9.
More clutch? How soon you forget Miracle at the Meadowlands 2. Michael Vick had 4 comeback wins, Eli Manning had 1 last season.
Good accuracy? On his career he has completed 58% of his passes, that’s not accurate at all.
Great football mind? I guess that’s why he has only scored 19 more times than he has turned the ball over right? His very mediocre career QB rating and accuracy stats must be the product of his great football mind, right?
Handles pressure extremely well?
Not a distraction to his team? Are you saying Vick is? Because the Eagles seemed really distracted by Vick while they whooped the Giants ass and won the division.
And Michael Vick doesn’t know the strengths and weaknesses of his players?
And Michael Vick doesn’t study tape a lot? How do you know this?
Stop bull shitting us.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
why do you continue to compare them?
30 turnovers Eli had in comparison to Mike Vick’s 9.
the stats here don’t tell the whole story. many of eli’s pics were tipped off his recievers hands. many of them were just dumb luck.
i watched every game last season and can count him with maybe 14 picks.
And Michael Vick doesn’t study tape a lot
i’m sure he does. but eli studies it every night.
and for the rest of your stuff there, including your shit talking. i’m not answering. because it is now clear to me that you are one of those guys that watches and listens to what espn says. and turns that into his opinion. i am done arguing with you. because you arguments i hear every day and they suck
More clutch? How soon you forget Miracle at the Meadowlands 2. Michael Vick had 4 comeback wins, Eli Manning had 1 last season.
last season. eli has more 4th quater comebacks in his career than anyone in the division.
His very mediocre career QB rating
lol, qb rating. if thats how you wanna judge him. then so be it. but thats dumb.
as for his completion percentage. what about the fact that he is one of 4 other qb’s to throw for atleast 3000 yards and 20 TD’s in the last 6 years.
there is so much more going to judge the QB position than stats. that is why vick is the better player. his stats. and the fact that you went by last season alone was just dumb.
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re such a homer. Stop bull shitting us and making shit up.
Do you have definitive evidence that Eli Manning studies tape more than Michael Vick? If not then that point is completely moot and has no base.
And I hate to burst your bubble but McNabb has 26 career comeback wins, more than Eli. So McNabb is more clutch than Eli?
Michael Vick has been starting for the Eagles for one year and in that one year he has four times the comebacks that Eli has. Thus, Vick is more clutch.
Clearly I’m not only judging Eli by his QB rating. I’m also judging him on his mediocre skill set and mediocre career numbers.
And do I care that he reached 3000 yards and 20 TDs 6 years running? Do you know how many players achieved that this past season? 16. Congratulations, Eli excels at being average.
And you’re stupid for wanting to compare career achievements when it clearly states the rankings are ‘current rankings’ and Michael Vick has only started for the Eagles for one year.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
Michael Vick has been starting for the Eagles for one year and in that one year he has four times the comebacks that Eli has
are you saying eli has one career comeback? you are sorely mistaken. 1 comeback. thats just a dumb statement.
Do you know how many players achieved that this past season?
another moronic statement.
yea sure 16 players have done that this year. but ony 3 or 4 other have done it 6 years in a row. do you know how dumb your making yourself look right now?
and Michael Vick has only started for the Eagles for one year
which is why you should not be saying shit. for all we know that year coulda been a fluke.
no one is saying eli is better than vick as a player.
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
are you saying eli has one career comeback? you are sorely mistaken. 1 comeback. thats just a dumb statement.
Are you retarded? I’m comparing them within the same time frame, I’m comparing what I saw most recently and that is the 2010 season since that is the only season Vick has started for the Eagles. It’s simple really. Any attempts to harken up career achievement in a debate about current rankings is non-topical and abusive.
another moronic statement.
yea sure 16 players have done that this year. but ony 3 or 4 other have done it 6 years in a row. do you know how dumb your making yourself look right now?
3000 yards and 20 TDs isn’t a big deal, I don’t know why you think it is. In today’s NFL if you’re not hitting 3000 yards and about 20 TDs you’re just a terrible QB. Fact of the matter is that topping 3000 yards and 20 TDs isn’t a big achievement because as I’ve shown (16 players achieved it last year) it isn’t an uncommon achievement.
which is why you should not be saying shit. for all we know that year coulda been a fluke.
no one is saying eli is better than vick as a player.
Blah. Blah. Blah. Anomaly. Blah. One year wonder. Blah. Could be a fluke. Blah. Blah. Blah. Eli Manning could fall of a cliff and never play again.
And I’ve already debunked this little theory of yours.
Statistically this argument is well founded but unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Eagles fans) we don’t live in a world ruled by numbers and statistics. The people affect the numbers, not the other way around. By simply using stats you’re completely ignoring Vick’s complete shift in lifestyle, attitude and his growth as a person. You’re also forgetting that he has never been with a better coaching staff. You’re also forgetting that he has never had this much talent around him.
On the field he is completely changed as a QB thanks to the crafting of Andy Reid and Marty Morninwheg who have coached Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mark Brunell, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb and now Michael Vick. Plus Andy Reid is the guy who convinced Mike Holmgren to draft Matt Hasselbeck.
It is my opinion that the fundamental changes that Michael Vick has made on and off the field will keep him from a regression to what he was in Atlanta.
C’mon. You’re still spewing BS.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
3000 yards and 20 TDs isn’t a big deal, I don’t know why you think it is. In today’s NFL if you’re not hitting 3000 yards and about 20 TDs you’re just a terrible QB.
uh if its so uncomon how come ony 4 players have done it over the past 6 years? you have no idea what your talking about here. i mean you really do not get it
Are you retarded? I’m comparing them within the same time frame, I’m comparing what I saw most recently and that is the 2010 season
i dont know why you dont see that that is so stupid to do. vick had the best year of his life and eli had a down year. it’s like comparing Ladanian Tomilson’s stats last season to McCoy’s.
Eli Manning could fall of a cliff and never play again.
you dont like the truth? for lll you know last year coulda been a fluke. im not saying it was, but you sure as hell have no idea. and that is much less likely then vick having a shit year.
C’mon. You’re still spewing BS
you sir are spewing a hell of a lot more shit than my doggie bag can carry.
you do not know what you are talking about, or you dont inderstand it. either way think about what you are saying here then get back to me
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, why are you so fucking dumb? It’s getting ridiculous LT. If you’re going to say dumb things at least try and use correct grammar and words.
uh if its so uncomon how come ony 4 players have done it over the past 6 years? you have no idea what your talking about here. i mean you really do not get it
Well first of all, you worded this terribly wrong. You said that only 4 players have done it the past 6 years which is wrong. 16 players did it last year.
And show me any half QB who has started each of the past 6 seasons and I’ll show you someone who has done it.
And did you really just compare Eli to the best RB of this past decade? Sorry, it’s not accurate to compare a hall of fame, top 5 RB in history to a middling, turnover prone QB.
And I hate to break it to you but LeSean McCoy is better than LT at this point.
you dont like the truth? for lll you know last year coulda been a fluke. im not saying it was, but you sure as hell have no idea. and that is much less likely then vick having a shit year.
Wait…. So I have no idea how Vick is going to play like in 2011, but you do? Interesting.
And what makes it so much more likely? I’ve already given a reason why Vick won’t regress back to what he was in ATL. What’s your basis for saying he will?
HINT: Saying it again proves nothing, support what you say please.
you sir are spewing a hell of a lot more shit than my doggie bag can carry.
You sir have one tiny doggie bag.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
Oh and as to the QBs better than Eli:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Philip Rivers
5. Drew Brees
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Michael Vick
8. Josh Freeman
9. Tony Romo (when healthy)
10. Matt Ryan
11. Matt Schaub
12a. Jay Cutler
12b. Eli Manning
Soon to pass Eli:
- Mark Sanchez
- Joe Flacco
- Sam Bradford
- Tim Tebow
- Matt Stafford
- Matt Flynn and Kevin Kolb whenever they get starting jobs
And if you’re going to argue with me I’ve got arguments that would appeal to logical people.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
lol
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Either you are a very mild mannered Giants fan or you noticed it. But I could seriously put together cases for what I said just as you could against it.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I could do that too!
Quarterbacks soon to pass Michael Vick, but not Eli Manning:
- Mark Sanchez
- Joe Flacco
- Sam Bradford
- Tim Tebow
- Matt Stafford
- Matt Flynn and Kevin Kolb whenever they get starting jobs
-Also Cam Newton
Because I also have a crystal ball, and it’s just a bit bigger than yours.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Cam Newton is garbage, that’s just silly.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Pot.
Meet kettle.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently my sarcasm eludes you.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Quite frankly
I don’t think Cam Newton will be very successful, so I apologize if your garbage “joke” went over my head, as I wouldn’t argue with that notion.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Cam Newton will not be successful at all. I was merely poking fun at your post. Sarcasm ≠ telling a joke btw.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...
So your version of sarcasm is when you say Cam Newton will be garbage, when you actually think Cam Newton will be garbage?
Interesting.
If that’s that case, I’m sorry to inform you that it was you who missed the gag my good man.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Also...
Just for your own personal reference.
You’ll find under the main entry of gibe, that sarcasm and joke are both synonyms…along with jeer, scoffing, sneer, taunt, etc.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The actual definition of sarcasm.
A sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
Don’t play the semantics game, I will win.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how that detracts form the link I provided
Which clearly shows that ‘joke’ and ‘sarcasm’ are synonyms of each other, and should easily be accepted as interchangeable with one-another (at least in the confines of the conversation we were having).
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
a word or phrase that by association is held to embody something
Synonym ≠ The actual meaning of a word.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course
But, and I’m sure you noticed, I did put the word joke in quotes, therefore implying I was assuming you were trying to use said sarcasm as a jeer, or a joke.
I’m sorry if this confused you.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
And if you wouldn't mind
Please explain how your comment was at all sarcastic…
If you posted that you thought Newton was going to be garbage, and thought he was going to be successful, I see the sarcasm in that. For example, if I said “Michael Vick has always been an upstanding citizen, and excellent role model.” You can clearly see the sarcasm.
But if you say Cam Newton is going to be garbage, and actually feel Cam Newton is going to be garbage, well…I guess I’m missing the sarcasm there.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Definition of sarcasm: A sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
I was being satirical. Obviously I don’t think all of those players are going to be better than Vick and I know that your comment wasn’t serious so I said “Cam Newton is garbage, that’s just silly.”
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean you don't think all of those players are going to be better than Eli?
If that’s what you mean, than yes, I apologize…I completely missed your sarcasm as you seemed quite ready to defend such an outlandish position.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 21, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I don’t think all the players you copied and pasted from my post (plus Cam) are going to be better than Vick but I only chose to single out Cam as disagreeable.
That original comment was tongue in cheek and meant to get a reaction out of The Real LT. But, I was prepared to defend it if it came to that.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
sanchez will pass no one but romo
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
you lost any credibility you had with that list. lol, do you know anything about football or are u just an espn mocking bird
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Argue it then. You keep spewing all this shit but you never back it up. Support what you say, don’t just say it. And for the record you lost any credibility when I saw how you typed, you type like a 12 year old girl.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer trolls don’t engage in logical analysis.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
thats great. but my knowledge seems to be superior.
i am not getting in an argument with you over this. i do not need to prove you wrong, when it is so clear you are.
i’m tired and not in the mood to argue why eli is a top 10 qb. i hate that argument. and i have to get in it atleast once a week. i’m done with it,
again. think what you want, but you are wrong
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
but my knowledge seems to be superior.
Say this when you can actually create a decent argument.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
i have. not here tho. there have been few worthy advesaries here.
this is more of a site for fun and commen discussion. not deep football arguments. i rarely see one of those here
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
dude youve been here a week. And we cant have a "deep football argument if all your response is are “NUT UH FUCK FACE”
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
nu uh fuck head
really tho. i try not to get in arguments with some of your people here (see KByayrs) because they dont really know football.
if you wanted a real argument with me, i can have one. as long as you dont say dumb homerist shit, i wont
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
if you wanted a real argument with me, i can have one. as long as you dont say dumb homerist shit, i wont
Hypocrite.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 21, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
For example
“Eli is the better qb Vick is the better player”? baseless comments with no support. especially considering they “PLAY” the same position. How does that argument make sense at all. He cant be the better WR, or RB etc.
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
i explained this
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me? I’m literally laughing at you right now. You’ve got a very inflated sense of yourself, probably one the most unwarranted I’ve seen to date. You’ve never made an intelligent football argument on any site.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
lol, i doubt you would know that.
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
So, you can’t compare them. And, you can’t defend your point at all, but we should assume you’re right? This would be based on your master grasp of spelling ability? I say Flaymin yawn, you pre-madona.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
hahah flaymin yawn
best post of the eternal thread
AKA Detective Electric
by Mr.electric10 on May 21, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to make this a pissing contest but...
but my knowledge seems to be superior.
Are you fucking kidding me?
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/5/8/2160143/whats-the-defense-going-to-look-like
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/5/2/2148873/random-post-draft-eagles-musings
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/4/25/2131307/the-random-draft-musings-part-2
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/4/17/2117215/the-random-draft-musings-of-d-jackfan10
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/3/14/2043653/the-brandon-harris-hate
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/1/31/1965502/dear-reidtards
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/1/22/1949696/the-defense
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/1/19/1945276/the-best-hire-since-jim-johnson
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/1/10/1927113/no-its-not-a-novel-its-an-offseason-preview
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/1/5/1915405/andy-reids-coaching-tree
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/12/20/1886768/the-eagles-won-the-game-giants-didnt-lose-it
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/12/14/1875280/lesean-mccoy-underrated
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/11/26/1835907/eagles-vs-bears-preview
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/11/12/1810302/was-dwight-freeney-really-doubled-and-held-all-game
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/1/13/1250394/eagles-are-soft
I just looked through both of your accounts and you haven’t done shit. Your knowledge is non-existent you little shit.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
lol your such a douche
just straight up dude. I mean i like ya and all but damn
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
That made me mad. His knowledge is ‘superior’. What bull, he is an idiot. But yeah, that was sort of a douche move on my part.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
I noticed it first with th whole Eagldephia thing
Granted I was being a douche to. but damn! hahaha
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company
actually i could see freeman (which i already proved to LT)
Schuab and Ryan being better with Flacco and Bradford soon to pass him. IDK why Gmen fans like him. I think he is a glorified Kyle Orton. I see him as a game manger and with the exception of the SB which David Tyree catch was the main reason for the W. When has he rly made you say wow. Im not trying to be a giant hater I happen to think ur Wrs and D are great but i dont get why all of you love ELI
AKA Detective Electric
by Mr.electric10 on May 21, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Eli Manning has
14 4th quarter comebacks.
17 game winning drives.
Far and away the best numbers of any other QB in the NFC East.
He posted one of the best QB ratings in postseason history during that superbowl run.
He was crushed by the media (and still, obviously, getting crushed) throughout his career, yet still continues to succeed.
Call it what you will, the NFL has become a QB-driven league. You can have a great defense, great WRs, great whatever. Its the QB that leads your team and makes a ton of the decisions on the field. So here’s another stat for you. Out of all the years that Eli has been in the league starting, he’s missed the playoffs twice. That’s it.
2 seasons ago, he posted 4000+ yards, 95 QB rating, 27 TDs, 14 INTs. He literally carried the team on his back into an 8-8 season. The running game sucked, and the defense was ranked 30th in the league. Last year obviously was the other year we didn’t make the playoffs, but we still got 10 wins, which in a usual year makes the playoffs. That’s right, ELI MANNING HAS NEVER LED THE GIANTS TO A LOSING RECORD. EVER.
In terms of comparing Eli to Romo. I invite Romo to play half of his games in the swirling winds and freezing temperatures of the Meadowlands rather than the dome in comfy, warm Texas, and see if his completion percentage is anywhere near what it is now.
I also invite ANY QB to, again, lose their top two WRs and still post solid games. To have absolutely no rapport with the WRs they picked off the street. To have an OL that everybody says sucks.
And this has been one season in the past 3-4 that Eli has had this huge amount of INTs. ONE YEAR. One year does not define a QB, and that’s exactly the argument I use for Vick as well. He did well this year, but its only one year. I’ll agree he’s the best right now, but if he can maintain it remains to be seen.
Y’all can have all your stats on completion percentage and what not. Its different when it comes to QB. Eli has proven, time and time again, that he’s a winner, and THAT to me is the most important stat of all. Not just in the regular season, but also the postseason. I don’t care how he does it. I don’t care if you think he relies on the defense or running game. The fact remains that not only has he won a superbowl (those saying he wasn’t anything special in those playoffs, again I remind you that he had one of the highest QB ratings posted in postseason history) and he’s a winner.
Yes, he’s not perfect, and he can improve. But in the infamous words of Terrell Owens, “that’s my quarterback.” And I’m damn proud that he is.
//rant
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 21, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Are those your only arguments? That he has comeback wins (most of which came way back in 2007 btw) and that he wins games? And just to let you know, Donovan McNabb has more comeback wins than Eli so Eli doesn’t have ‘far and away the most in the NFC East’. You know Vince Young has an amazing W-L record (he wins .625% of games he starts) and he has led his team to comeback wins or game winning drives on 25% of his starts. Is he a good QB?
And this has been one season in the past 3-4 that Eli has had this huge amount of INTs. ONE YEAR.
Do you know how many QBs have thrown more interceptions than Eli since he took over the starting job in 2005? 1 and his name is Brett Favre. Eli manning has turned the ball over 140 times since 2005, most in the NFL since 2005 (Favre is second with 134). Eli Manning is the most turnover prone QB in the entire league, last year was not an anomaly.
Michael Vick has won 58.5% of his starts, Eli Manning has won 58.1%. Eli’s winning percentage puts him at 13th in the NFL so congratulations, Eli excels at being mediocre.
So basically in the end your argument is sentimental value?
I don’t care how he does it. I don’t care if you think he relies on the defense or running game. The fact remains that not only has he won a superbowl (those saying he wasn’t anything special in those playoffs, again I remind you that he had one of the highest QB ratings posted in postseason history) and he’s a winner.
You know what I’m about to say…. Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson? etc. etc.
You’re neglecting the fact that Eli Manning is the most turn over prone QB in the league, he is not as much of a winner as you try to say he is, he is not an accurate passer, his skill set is mediocre in every way (probably poor in the mobility department) and that he has consistently had one of the best running games and defenses in the game to support him. There is nothing special about Eli Manning at all. He is just a glorified game manager who turns the ball over too much. But he has wonz a superbowlzz.
Eli Manning is not a top 10 QB and he never has been. He’ll only slide further and further down the rankings as these young guys get better too. Eli Manning is average.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
I'm tired of arguing this.
I’m not going to convince you that Eli is a strong qb and you will never convince me that Eli is average. Anybody can cherry pick stats to help their argument and that’s what we’ve been doing.
People disregard the 2007 season, but I don’t understand why. Might as well disregard Vick’s 2010. Not comparing his leadership to anybody else’s, but anybody who says that Eli is not a good leader is an idiot. He has been top ten in some categories, and average in others.
Trent Dilfer, etc, is not a valid comparison, because as I said, Eli’s play was far superior that season. He’s a gunslinger, yes, he takes risks, but he was top 4 in the NFL in TDs. Only Peyton, Brady, and Brees had more. Brees and Peyton only had 2 more TDs. Saying he’s a glorified game manager is ridiculous.
As far as consistently having great defenses and running game, that’s false as well. Like I said before, in 2009 the defense was 30th in the NFL and last year, they were in the bottom half in points allowed. We were consistently playing from behind for the past three years, and it was Eli who led us back.
But y’all go on and keep saying that Eli sucks. I’m fine with that, and I’m not going to get heated about it. I provided my argument and am sticking with it.
Besides, do you honestly think that you were going to convince a Giants fan that his QB is mediocre, regardless of how strong your argument is? That would be like me saying Jason Avant is mediocre at best, and pretty much most of the stats prove that. Regardless, he passes your “eye test.” Doesn’t pass mine. In the same way, Eli passes my eye test and doesn’t pass yours. Its all good, this shit is just to keep us busy until the season starts anyway.
Cheers, djack, it was fun, but I’m kinda tired of arguing this.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 21, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
this
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 21, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
For one year he was
Completely agree.
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 20, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i take eli over vick even if vick wins a superbowl
they should not be compared. different systems, different talents
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand being a homer, but that’s just ridiculous.
by 92-74-99-96 on May 20, 2011 9:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
bardy kwynn bedder den leyi manying. dem haz differnt kuches.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
Who would have thought the world could go so crazy that Eagles fans would actually have to defend the rights of Giants to say fuck the Eagles. What’s next, cats fucking dogs?
Eli Manning is the more succesful quarterback, but the point is that Michael Vick is overall a better player RIGHT NOW.
Eli may have won the Super Bowl, but he had a bad year last season. Oh yeah and that other thing…
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Mikesta on May 20, 2011 7:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with this.
Creator of the NFC East Eternal Threads
Proud resident of BBV, BGN, MTD
by BigBlueIntervention on May 20, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
we all know this.
idk why you guys think we think eli is better right now. were fine with hom being second best in the division
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony Romo is better too.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
if you knew what you were talking about i'd get into this debate with you
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on May 20, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I love how I’m the one using stats and facts yet I’m the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about? You’re personnel evaluation system appears to be just this:
“Giant player make me feel warm and fuzzy. Redskin/Giant/Eagle player make Real LT feel sad and angry. Giant player is best.”
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
by d-jackfan10 on May 20, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
perfect analysis
AKA Detective Electric
by Mr.electric10 on May 21, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Enough of this Superbowl ring talk. Eli Manning didn’t win the big game himself. The entire Giants defense played extremely well and I believe someone on that defensive line should’ve won the MVP award.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Mikesta on May 20, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
What the fuck are all you guys talking about?
I’ll take John Beck over Vick, Eli, Romo, Kolb, and McNabb. Easily. Hell, I’ll take him over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady!
John Beck ftw!
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
use the sarcasm font
otherwise some people (LT) will think ur serious
AKA Detective Electric
by Mr.electric10 on May 21, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleeding Green Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
