Andy Reid's Career First Round NFL Draft Grades
by captainmike011 on Apr 3, 2011 11:31 AM EDT
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PrintNot much going on tonight, so i thought I'd reminisce a little about our success rate in the first round over the Andy Reid regime. I decided to use a numbered scale from 1 to 10 to rate each player(s). Scores are based primarily on NFL production, to an intermediate degree on longevity, and to a lesser degree on what I felt the quality of the pick was at the time the player was taken, before he ever dawned an NFL uniform.
1999 Donovan McNabb (Grade 9.7 / 10) Arguably the best draft pick in franchise history. Led the Eagles for 11 years with many more ups than downs. He was a bit sensitive with the media but nobody ever told him playing in Philly was easy (or fair all the time). In 1999, I was part of the Ricky Williams campaign, but Andy promptly showed Eagles nation that HIS team was going to be run HIS way by building around a franchise QB rather than a franchise runner. Two seasons later it was obvious Andy made the right pick.
2000 Corey Simon (8.5 / 10) I loved this pick when it was made. Simon promised to provide the Eagles with the interior pass rusher they so badly needed since the tragic death of Jerome Brown. He sacked Troy Aikman on his very first regular season play on the way to a fantastic rookie campaign. He gave us four very good years, but became a malcontent after so long and departed not very long after that. Signed with the Colts where his career quickly spiraled downward.
2001 Freddie Mitchell (4.5 / 10) The Eagles missed on this one. I don't think I was ever excited about him at any time. FredEx had good hands, but was undersized and didn't have the speed to compensate. Most famous for 4th and 26.....and also for foolishly giving Rodney Harrison and the Pats all sorts of bulletin board material prior to the 2005 Super Bowl, and contributed nothing in the game. He was a Terrell Owens sized prima dona, but never backed anything up on the field.
2002 Lito Sheppard (8.2 /10) Wasn't excited about this pick, but he proved me wrong (somewhat). Went to two Pro Bowls although I don't think he was ever what you would call an truly elite player. Certainly wasn't a bust, but was injury prone and eventually grew unhappy with his contract and signing Asante Samuel had to hurt. Had one of the more memorable plays of the last decade when he picked off Drew Bledsoe and returned it for 100+ yards for a touchdown, sealing an Eagles home win over Dallas. Making a big play to help beat the Giants or Cowboys will always serve to boost a player's stock
2003 Jerome McDougal (3.0 / 10) Hated this pick from the get go, and he justified it. Did virtually nothing in the pros, although he did lay one hell of a hit on Eli Manning in the Eagles 2004 home opener. The Steelers continue to rub salt in this wound, as they took All World safety Troy Polamalu with the very next pick in the first round.
2004 Shawn Andrews (8.9 /10) He gets a high grade because I thought this was a fantastic pick when the Eagles traded up for him. He was injury prone but was lights out when he was healthy. Was the best guard in football in 2006 at the age of 24 and looked like the Eagles hit a grand slam. I honestly thought we had a second coming of Larry Allen, thats how high I was on him. Such a disappointing ending.
2005 Mike Patterson (7.8 / 10) I liked this pick. I didn't predict him to ever dominate but thought he would be a solid starter, which he has been. I thought he would be more productive in the sack department which is why his score isn't higher. He might be fighting for his job this summer with the emergence of Antonio Dixon.
2006 Broderick Bunkley (8.0 / 10) I wanted Haloti Ngata more, but I thought Bunk could be a dominant player if he worked at it. Unfortunately, he didn't do that as a rookie and it showed. He had lots of potential but was unpolished coming out of FSU. Like Patterson, I thought he'd get to the quarterback more, but he holds strong at the point and has emerged as a solid NFL tackle.
2007 Kevin Kolb (8.8 / 10) He wasn't a first rounder but he was the team's first pick that year. The heir apparent to Donovan McNabb showed flashes of greatness at times and will make a very good starter in the NFL next year for whichever team he is traded to. Doesn't have the big arm, but is a hard worker, very accurate, and a little more mobile than many think. Should net the Eagles at least a first round pick in a trade, which boosts his grade.
2008 Trevor Laws/DeSean Jackson (Laws: 7.2 / 10, Jackson: 9.3 / 10) They were taken so close in the second round that year that I decided to grade both. Laws showed some promise last year but probably isn't where the team thought he would be or needs him to be. Even on draft day, I thought he was a bit of a reach. I did not think Jackson would still be available at #49 overall. I was elated at this pick at the time because I knew at the very least he would really upgrade the return game. Has emerged as an elite playmaker although one can argue he is a streaky player. Has a lot of great years ahead of him and can't wait to watch. Made the play of the year in 2010.......do I really need to tell you which?
2009 Jeremy Maclin (9.2 / 10) In the last ten years, I don't ever think I was more excited about a first round pick when his name was called. Getting Maclin at the 19th pick was a total steal then and certainly now. I rated him just a tad below Jackson because I think Jackson is more talented but Maclin is more consistent. After two seasons looks to be well on his way to stardom. Teams with Jackson, Avant and Cooper to give the team its best WR corps in years. Should make a good push for the Pro Bowl this year.
2010 Brandon Graham (Incomplete) Didn't produce like they thought he would, then got hurt. Haven't seen enough to put a fair grade on him. I liked this pick because I knew he was a good player coming out of Michigan, but I thought the team had more glaring needs at the time. When the Eagles moved up to #13, I actually said to my friend "Here comes Earl Thomas" because drafting a safety made a lot more sense. The team did address the safety position soon after by using the "Donovan McNabb pick" on Nate Allen, which made me feel better about getting Graham.
ANDY'S AVERAGE SCORE: (7.76 of 10) Looking back, I was pleased overall. FredEx and McDougal busted pretty badly, which brought the total down. But all in all, Andy's done a pretty commendable job picking them in the first round. He doesn't always make the popular pick (actually he rarely does) but looking at other teams, he could have done a lot worse.
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I think a few of these are a little generous.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/
by JimmyK on Apr 3, 2011 8:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree.
The low ones aren’t low enough and then everyone else grades out really high.
My grades.
McNabb – 9.5 (Still probably best draft pick of Reid era)
Corey Simon – 7.8
Freddie Mitchell – 2.5
Lito Sheppard – 7
Jerome McDougal – 0.5
Shawn Andrews – 5 (didn’t give us enough good years to be graded higher)
Mike Patterson – 7.5
Brodick Bunkley – 6.7 (not the dominant DT we were hoping for)
Kevin Kolb – 7 (if he turns into a 1st rd pick then that probably makes him a 9+)
Trevor Laws – 6.9 (could be graded higher if he continues improved play)
Desean Jackson – 9.0
Jeremy Maclin – 8.5 (could be graded higher if he becomes one of the game’s elite)
you know. . .
I think I want to rate Laws even lower. He did some good things this past year, but still hasn’t earned his worth. How about 5.9?
You rank Laws above Shawn Andrews?
WTF? Shawn Andrews gave us ELITE performance for more than a full season. While I think he’s a little bitch, I’ll never forget how good he was for us when he was good. His total contributions to this point FAR outway those of Laws.
Similar point for Lito. I think feelings about knowing how things ended with these players are bringing the ratings down, instead of rating their contributions to the teams they played for on a cumulative basis.
my take lol......
Mcnabb- 10/10
Corey Simon- 7/10
Fredex- 2/10
Litooooo 7/10
Mcdougle- 0/10
Big Kid – 8/10 ( goin off his years where he was all-pro)
Patterson- 6/10
Bunk – 6/10
Kolb- 6.5/10
Laws – 3 /10
Djax – 9/10
Maclin- 7.5 /10
Maclin at 7.5? I would have him at 8 or 8.5
by Clint Eastwood on Apr 3, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think....
a 7.5 is pretty fair for Maclin right now, for where he was takin in the draft he hasnt disaapointed but at the same time he hasnt exceeded expectations either. Right now he is a solid starter but people r kidding themselves if they think hes gonna be a pro bowler.
Right now he is a solid starter but people r kidding themselves if they think hes gonna be a pro bowler.
70 catches, nearly 1000 yards, and 10 TDs….in his second year. You are kidding yourself if you think he can’t. Last year, Miles Austin made it with lesser stats(69 rec, 1041 yards, 7 TDs) than Maclin.
Are you kidding me? In NFL history, only Randy Moss had more yards (regular season and playoff) before his 22nd birthday than Maclin. He was the seventh player in NFL history – and the second Eagle in two years – to surpass 750 receiving yards before his 22nd birthday. Maclin already has three career games with 140 or more receiving yards, and in NFL history only Randy Moss has had more before his 23rd birthday. At age 22 he became one of 4 players in Eagles history to score 10 or more touchdowns in a season. He is one of four players all time to have scored 10 touchdowns before his 23rd birthday, he joins Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald and Hakeem Nicks.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
A lot of WRs come out at 22 not 23
and many dont even see the field until year two or three. So your point is valid to a degree, but hes still not a WR who’s going to take over a game or consisntely make game changng plays like jackson
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
u gotta realize......
Maclin benefits alot from the attention Jackson draws, look im not knockin Maclin im fuckin thrilled hes on the birds and im not saying he cant be a pro bowler im just saying i dont expect him 2 be. Alls i said is i think hes a solid starter in the league whos capable at times of being more than that.
Umm,
I would generally agree with that statement, however when Djax has been out Maclin’s put up big numbers and produced…
And to be honest Maclin brings a lot to the table. He’s going to be our best WR I think.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
I think Maclin is a more complete receiver IMO but D-Jack is a much more explosive and more of a playmaker.
by Clint Eastwood on Apr 3, 2011 9:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
right now I will agree with you that hes a 7
Remember he’s not seeing top flight coverages thrown his way — Jackson is. Maybe when he blossoms a bit he will be, but not now
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
i like maclin dont get me wrong......
but right now hes still shaky in big games, i just think alot of people on this site r setting themselves up 2 be disappointed if they think hes in the same class as a Jennings , Roddy….etc. etc.
He has the potential to be a # 1 receiver.. I think he needs another year yet.
Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much. - Dhammapada
Socrates in his last days said, 'When I was young I thought I knew much. When I became old, ripe in wisdom, I came to understand that I know nothing."
Ehh, I disagree.
Maclin’s produced in big games… He had 10 TD’s this past year which is the first time since what 04(?) for us? He had 17 more yards to get to 1,000 yards… He put himself into Legit threat status last year.
Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...
Wild_Eagle!
Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.
-Awarded by Number5
What evidence is there that he’s shaky in big games? He caught a TD in the playoffs in his rookie year. He had a monster game against Atlanta this year, 73 yards against the Packers in the playoffs this season..
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umm well.....
just off the top of my head i can think of 2……the fumble at the end of the 1st half in the MIracle2 game( he did redeem himself tho) and i remember him droppin a pass against dallas which led 2 a pick, look i like Maclin a lot im just not ready 2 annoint him the next Jerry Rice off of 2 good years.
i was gonna say the same
but then i thought maybe it was my giant fandom showing it’s sexy self.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-
good call
but his grading is consistent. But very generous
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
by MightyJoeBanner on Apr 3, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Here are some of the notable 1st picks from all NFL teams in that duration
Atlanta - Vick, Deangelo Hall, Roddy White, Matt Ryan
Arizona - Leonard Davis (t), Larry Fitzgerald, Antrel Rolle, Dominique Rodgers-Cromatrie
Baltimore - Chris McAllister, Jamaal Lewis, Todd Heap, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Joe Flacco
Buffalo - Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Lee Evans
Carolina - Julius Peppers, Jordan Gross, Chris Gamble, DeAngelo Williams
Cincinnati - Carson Palmer, Chris Perry, Jonathan Joseph
Cleveland - Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards and Joe Thomas
Dallas - Demarcus Ware, Anthony Spencer, Felix Jones, Dez Bryant
Denver - Deltha O’Neal, Jay Cutler, Ashley Lelie
Detroit - Suh, Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams
Green Bay – Aaron Rodgers, Javon Walker, Clay Matthews, Nick Barnett
Houston - Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, Brian Cushing
Indy - Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James, Dallas Clark
Jacksonville - Marcus Stroud, Jon Henderson
KC - Dwayne Bowe, Larry Johnson
Miami - Ronnie Brown, Jake Long
Minnesota - Adrian Peterson, Bryant McKinnie, Kevin Williams, Percy Harvin, Chad Greenway
New England – Richard Seymour, Logan Mankins, Vince Wilfork
New Orleans – Reggie Bush, Donte Stallworth
NY Giants – Eli Manning (trade for Phillip Rivers), Jeremy Shockey, Luke Petitgout, Hakeem Nicks
NY Jets - Darrelle Revis, John Abraham, Santana Moss, D’Brickashaw, Nick Mangold, Jonathan Vilma
Oakland - Nnamdi Asomugha, Robert Gallery, Darren McFadden
Philly - Donovan McNabb, Corey Simon
Pittsburgh - Troy Polamalu, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress, Heath Miller, Maurkice Pouncey, Rashard Mendenhall, Casey Hampton, Lawrence Timmons and of course Ben Roethlisberger.
San Diego - LaDanian Tomlinson, Shawne Merriman, Phillip Rivers, Antonio Cromartie
San Fran – Julian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree
Seattle - Shawn Alexander
St Louis – Torry Holt, Steven Jackson
Tampa Bay – n/a
Washington - Champ Bailey, Sean Taylor
Pittsburgh leads the way by far, only one of their picks was in the top 10, most of them 15 and later. They are the best at picking the right players to fit their system. Baltimore is a distant second. Eagles are somewhere in the middle.
Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much. - Dhammapada
Socrates in his last days said, 'When I was young I thought I knew much. When I became old, ripe in wisdom, I came to understand that I know nothing."
by Eagladelphia on Apr 3, 2011 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Lol @ Tampa Bay
"This team (Philadelphia Eagles) gives me the best chance of winning a Super Bowl."
-Michael Vick #7
I think you graded too high
How do you grade Shawn Andrews higher than Kolb?
i think Patterson, Bunkley, and Andrews got too high of grades.
Eagladelphia makes a good point that you should look at this comparatively too, seeing what other teams ended up with. Also look at what other players were still available at the time.
"Verde que te quiero verde..."
Το πράσινο είναι ζωή!
That's right, I bleed green multiculturally
"if you shut someone down with class, it's more effective" - Udalango
easily u put Andrews ahead of kolb.....
his window may have closed fast but when he was good he was GOOD, need i remind u Andrews was at one time a ALL-PRO , truly one the biggest cases of a wat might have been but the fact remains he was arguably a top 3 interior lineman at one point.
Yeah. Shawn Andrews belongs higher than Kolb.
Shawn’s given us a lot more. But Kolb might pass him up before their careers are over.
I think Westbrook was Reid's best pick.
Westbrook was much more of a threat in our offense, and was the biggest reason why our offenses were so potent or had any potency in the 04,06,07 and 08 campaigns. How many times did we see McNabb just dump it off to Westbrook who took it for a huge gain or a TD? Westbrook was a once in a 10-15 year talent.
Eagledelphia you left out a lot of notable players in that duration, were you just going off the top of your head? Core Simon and McNabb the only notable picks? Does Tra Thomas ring a bell? He was a cornerstone at LT for a long time.
Everyone seems to forget our uncanny ability to get good picks in the late round. Trent Cole, Trotter, Bradley, Celek, a slew of O-lineman…And at one point we had like 5 UDFAs contributing to our team with Mikkell being one of them.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
It was strictly the first pick in eagles draft since the reid era, and compared it to other teams’ first pick in that same time span. I was just going along with the premise of the post.
Tra was drafted before Reid, that’s why he wasn’t listed here, maybe you just misunderstood what the premise was.
Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much. - Dhammapada
Socrates in his last days said, 'When I was young I thought I knew much. When I became old, ripe in wisdom, I came to understand that I know nothing."
by Eagladelphia on Apr 3, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
2001- Passed on Reggie Wayne, Chad Ochocinco (then Johnson), and Steve Smith in the 3rd round for the Sultan of Slot!
2003- Coulda had Dawkins AND Troy Polamalu in the same secondary?! Beastly.
by firstroundpick on Apr 3, 2011 11:46 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Far too. ..
generous w/ some stingy w/ others. …
10/10- McNabb & DeSean. Can’t see how you can grade them any lower.
Sure McNabb didn’t get us the -ship, but he -insert rhetoric and is one of the MAIN reasons if not THE main reason we’ve remained competitive all these years (insert memory of Kolb’s first start as THE man).
DeSean, who would have thought he’d pan out to be our very own Devin Hester w/ hands? Now a perennial Pro Bowler, record breaker and the TRUE key to our O (insert memories of the O w/o DeSean, especially in the playoffs against the Packers).
9/10- ‘Heavy on the Lito!,’ Shawn Andrews and Jeremy Maclin.
Lito Sheppard was a BIG TIME player for us and a TRUE Cowboy killer (even in his later years). Elected to the Pro Bowl twice, and should have been elected 2 more times. Had it not been for his injury history his career could have been of an elite caliber. LET’S not forget WHERE he was drafted in the 1st RD as well.
Maclin- After Crabtree’s injury and surgey considered to be the top WR coming out of the draft that year; along w/ being one of the most versatile. Trading up to get this man was GENIUS (thanks Oakland).
Andrews- Main concerns coming out concerned his weight, not mental stability. W/ the exception of his first year and when he went Charlie Sheen on us, proved to be worth his weight in gold. Although I still feel we should have drafted Steven Jackson and thought we would when we traded up, had Shawn not brain-farted we’d truly have the best OL in the NFL at this point.
Honorable Mention: Kolb (if we get a first).
8/10- Patterson
7/10- Bunkley, Simon
6/10- Laws
5/10- none
4/10- Freddie Mitchell
3/10- McDougle (traded UP for this man)
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
(insert memory of Kolb’s first start as THE man).
WHat’s that supposed to mean? DO people forget just about every good qb struggled early on with their first starts?
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
That wasn’t his FIRST start though. That was his first start as the FRANCHISE though; after waiting in the wings and cooking up the competition in a reserve role.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 12:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
blah blah blah it was one half of a friggin start.
by philiafan14364 on Apr 3, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
you mean just like half the other quarterbacks?
You can always tell a young poster or someone who hasn’t watched the eagles that long from the older guys…
You know how? Because they forget that McNabb once was a rookie with no experience who went through growing pains before turning into a starting franchise QB..
Sorry IB, but we can smell through BS
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
by the way you are delusional on sheppard
he had 1 good year in 04, maybe one other good year at BEST. He was often injured and towards the end of his career year he was REALLY exposed as the 2nd best CB, behind brown… Brown was much better and shouldve been to the pro bowl , not Sheppard.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
I agree I’m a tad bit delusional about Lito, but he was an outstanding pick. Sheldon up until a certain point was the more complete player, but Sheldon was NOT the cover-man Lito was.
Injuries and pride proved to be the death of him.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
IB
you are so wrong!!!!!.. Brown WAS the physical cover corner. Lito was thought to be better because he was more likely to try and jump routes and get picks. That’s why Lito hasn’t started since we traded him… and was cut once from the Jets
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Brown was the physical, jam off the line of scrimmage. … Come up in the run game and make the sure tackle CB. Lito had the better hands, route recognition, speed and overall ball-skills than Sheldon. Oh, and I think he garnered praise for his jam off the line.
McNabb did have growing pains. .. as the 2nd overall pick in the draft, leading an offense that instead of LeSean, DeSean, Maclin, Weaver, Avant, ETC at the skill positions he had Staley, Johnson, Small, Bostic, Brown, Chadddddd!! ETC. He didnt have those playmakers, nor did McNabb have however many 300 yard passing games under his belt. Nor did he come into the season w/ such hype built up (not saying it was his fault but eh), and a projected image of what McNabb actually turned out to be in a sense- a tough-guy. Kill snakes w/ my boot poppycock.
McNabb 10/10.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Youre reight
he had good defenses, offensive lines and one of the best RBs inf ranchise history.
He also had that exact line up you mentioned in 2009 and failed to beat one playoff team .
Tom Brady didnt need stars his whole career to perform well. Another McNabb excuse maker.
10 out of 10? lmao
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
you are so dumb by the way
He was the jam off the line run playing corner? Yeah he did that but the main principle of the corner is to cover the WR you dip shit which he did a lot better than Lito. THat’s why Brown is still starting in this league
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
True.
He had a GREAT defense, a developing yet GOOD OL, one of the backs in franchise history and etc. ..
He tanked. That’s all I’m saying. Kolb tanked. Big McNabb supporter, was a big Kolb supporter. They both tanked, one before the other; not to mention one still has a future ahead of him. But, Kolb tanked.
Grading McNabb, tanking included 10/10. .. Look at the numbers, include the big failures and the balls in the dirt; he made us relevant again. This is my opinion, and it ain’t changing.
Didn’t say Sheldon couldn’t cover; def know Sheldon didnt cover better, nor did he have better ball-skills than Lito. Maybe you were too OLD of a fan then to notice this when both were in their PRIME.
Sheldon has managed to continue starting in this league because ONE he showed the ability to play through injury (the injuries he did sustain also managed to not diminish his playing ability- until later in his career) and TWO he was a good solider and didnt let contract situation or role (though he never lost his starting spot) affect the level of his play nor did he alienate himself. He’s washed now just like Lito.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 7:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Forgot to add, much like Vick did this year growing pains and all that other rhetoric included OL included, when McNabb needed to use that athletic ability and get out of there, he was able to get out of there. Also, in McNabb’s first year as the MAN (2nd year in the league) didn’t he account for over 75 percent of our O? Was expecting that out of Kolb -kinda. .. But he just isn’t the playmaker at QB the caliber of Vick/McNabb in their prime are/were.
Kolb tanked.
'Study long. ... Study wrong. ..' Chad Butler
by Illadelphia-Braintrust on Apr 3, 2011 7:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kolb tanked?
He has 7 whole starts to his name!!!!
And no, our D in McNabbs early years is what made us so good, that and Andy did a great job of making sure he had a good o-line. He made some plays but he was always inconsistent, even now he is.
I remember Lito in his prime. He had one whole good year and he only started here for 3 years before getting traded then cut, and now a back up CB.. Dude, even stats back it up, Brown was much better than Lito
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
gotta give lito mad props.....
he was one of my fav eagles during his peak and he was always a threat 2 take the ball 2 the house whenever he got his hands on it.
by goldenbird09 on Apr 3, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Post.....
I enjoyed the trip down memory lane LOL…….only 2 things i can say are i think Brandon Graham would be better siuted as 3-4 OLB and i think Maclin will have a hard time making the pro bowl with guys like FItz, Roddy, Calvin, Jennings, and our own Djax around but that doesnt take anything away from him as a player that will be great for us for many years .
Graham OLB, really?
Didn’t we all scream every time Graham got dropped into coverage? I’ll even go as far as to say Cole and Graham both suffered/tweeked injuries while being dropped back into coverage which is why both saw declining performance throughout the season. I don’t remember a specific point for Graham, but Cole ran off limping multiple times when he was dropped into coverage. None of our DE’s are suited for 3-4 OLB. “Outside linebackers should be able to drop into pass coverage, rush the passer or read and react.”
yeah GB you pulled that one out of your ass
It’s funny just like every white WR is compared to wes welker every small DE is now better suited to play 3-4 lol
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
yeahhh i guess ur right.....
i guess i was hypnotized by the whole smaller DE thing, i did think for a moment that Graham wud be better off on a team like the steelers where he could just rush the outside edge but then the thought of him droppin into coverage totally destroyed that idea.
Let's hope our 4-3 DEs prosper in the new scheme
You’re describing what should have happened last year. They don’t need to be in a 3-4 defense to rush the outside edge. That’s their job in a 4-3 defense. I can’t wait to see their production in 2011 with a new D coord and D-line coach.
If you're gradeing from 1-10...
with 5 being average then these grades are high.
10-Future HOF
9-Exceptional player multiple Pro bowl
7 to 8-Good player a starter for years.
5 To 6 Serviceable starter
4 Good backup sometimes starter
3 Backup who only sees the field in emergencies.
2 Never really contributes maybe for reasons out of your control (injury)
1 Bust total mistake pick.
On this scale I would rate the Reid Eagles picks.
McNabb-9
Simon-7.5
Mithcell-4
Sheppard-7
McDougal-2
Andrews-7.5
Patterson-6
Bunkley-5.5
Kolb-?
Laws-4.5 Jacson-8.5
Maclin-8
Graham-?
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on Apr 3, 2011 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I lik eyour scale but WTF
How do you give mitchell a 4? THe only time he started was due to injury aka emergency situations.
Patterson is a 7, McDougle is a ONE. He had plenty of years with no injury. He just plain sucked.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
He gets an extra point for...
4th and 26 and the catch after the 14 second McNabb scramble. For being a crappy WR he was on the receiving end of two of the most historic Eagles plays of my time watch the Birds.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
What’s with you guys and using so many decimals? Be a man and give someone a 5 or 6 straight up. Decimals for pussy.
McNabb – 8/10 (11 years starter at QB, don’t see that often)
Simon – 6/10 (Good DT, but wasn’t worth top-10 pick)
Mitchell – 210 (Worst pick in Reid’s tenure)
Sheppard – 6/10 (Good few years as starter, but wore out his welcome his last couple years)
McDougle – 4/10 (Can’t give a guy who got shot a lower grade)
Andrews – 5/10 (good couple head, headache next couple of years)
Patterson – 7/10 (help for a good run stopping duo)
Bunkley – 7/10 (see above)
Kolb – 5/10 (you simply expect more than 7 starts out of your top pick, regardless of the Vick accident)
Laws – 5/10 (useless first couple of years, good last year.)
Maclin – 8/10 (sky the limit for him)
Graham – 24/10 (hes teh roxxor)
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
Jackson wasn’t a top pick under Reid.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
by Imp on Apr 3, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
also......
u guys r settin yourselves up for a major disappointment with Maclin, the guy is a solid starter who can start for pretty much every team in the NFL and can take games over at times but beyond that hes never gonna be a Pro Bowler or a superstar.
Jeremy Maclin – 126 catches, 1737 yards, 14 TDs
Marvin Harrison first two years: 137 catches, 1702 yards, 14 TDs
Terrell Owens first two years: 95 catches, 1456 yards, 12 TDs
Reggie Wayne first two years: 76 catches, 1061 yards, 4 TDs
Chad Johnson first two years: 97 catches, 1595 yards, 6 TDs
Greg Jennings first two years: 98 catches, 1552 yards, 15 TDs
Roddy White first two years: 59 catches, 952 yards, 3 TDs
Damn, you’re right. He has no shot at being a multiple time Pro Bowler or superstar. Let’s trade Maclin now!
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
by Imp on Apr 3, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
A solid starter? The guy is already on the brink of becoming one of the best receivers in the NFL, he is the complete package. He is one of the best young receivers in the history of the game as I pointed out to you earlier.
In NFL history, only Randy Moss had more yards (regular season and playoff) before his 22nd birthday than Maclin. He was the seventh player in NFL history – and the second Eagle in two years – to surpass 750 receiving yards before his 22nd birthday. Maclin already has three career games with 140 or more receiving yards, and in NFL history only Randy Moss has had more before his 23rd birthday. At age 22 he became one of 4 players in Eagles history to score 10 or more touchdowns in a season. He is one of four players all time to have scored 10 touchdowns before his 23rd birthday, he joins Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald and Hakeem Nicks.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
dude..... say that AFTER he's had a couple years to flourish
These posts in this thread are just unblievable to the point where I don’t believe what I’m reading.
It takes on AVERAGE 3 years for a WR to blossom. So with two years in the league and at the ripe age of 23 or 24 Maclin is destined to just be a solid starter? Got it!!!! Great evaluation
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Yeah, the Maclin debate...
Is somewhat interesting until you remember that he’s only 22. Then it’s just stupid.
Actually, I thought he should’ve been in the Pro Bowl last year.
by 92-74-99-96 on Apr 3, 2011 7:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
~couple heads years.
~help form
Maybe I should proof read my posts beforehand, haha.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
by Imp on Apr 3, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
McNabb – 9/10
Simon 8/10
-The guy was a beast for the Eagles in his 5 seasons here, he had 32 sacks in 5 seasons from the DT spot. That compares very well any 5 year stretch that guys like Warren Sapp or Kevin Williams have put together. He wasn’t here long but when he was he was one of the best in the NFL.
Fred-Ex 1/10
-What a moron.
Lito 7/10
-He really fell off towards the end of his tenure here but he was a good NFL corner who made some probowls.
McDougle 0/10
-What a disappointment
Shawn Andrews 8/10
-I’m going with the same system I graded Corey Simon with, he wasn’t here long but when he was he was one of the most dominating players at his position. He notched 2 probowl seasons and he was an all-pro. He was instrumental in the success of Brian Westbrook in 2006 and 2007.
Mike Patterson 6/10
-Solid starter
Brodrick Bunkley 6.5/10
-Solid starter who has flashed the ability to dominate at the point of attack at times (Giants playoff game for example, he just tossed around the Giants interior line like they were rag-dolls).
Kevin Kolb 6/10
-Not what was expected but he has stepped up in relief and is now a trade-able commodity that could net the Eagles a first round pick.
Trevor Laws 4/10
-Potential to improve this grade is high, he had a good season last year and he could get even better under the tutelage of Jim Washburn.
Jeremy Maclin 8/10
-Is on his way to becoming one of the best receivers in the NFL, his skill set is similar to those of Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Rod Smith and Reggie Wayne.
Brandon Graham ?
-Unknown, he led all rookie pass rushers in passer disruptions (hurries/hits/sacks) but he tore his ACL.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
Im learning a lot in this thread
Mainly how good Lito was despite being benched over Sheldon Brown. Oh and the fact that Lito has yet to have success after getting traded, then cut by the Jets. He had one good year in 04. Most over rated Eagles player next to McNabb. The only difference at least McNabb was a good player in the league consistently and could probably still land a starting job. Lito hasn’t done that since 2007, and has had injury plagued mediocre seasons, even as an Eagle.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Like you said before...
Eagles have done a great job later in the draft and even with undrafted free agents, but I think their 1st picks under Andy have been average at best. Lito had a couple of okay years and then he got too full of himself and wanted more money and hasn’t done anything for the Jets or the Vikings. Maclin, has the potential to be a great receiver, but having Desean on the other side really makes him look better then he is, I’m waiting for Maclin to break out and have a monster season, he is definitely capable of more. McNabb debate will continue forever, everyone has their opinion, it’s how you choose to see it, I feel that he was okay, not great, someone else might worship him… it’s never-ending with McNabb…
Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much. - Dhammapada
Socrates in his last days said, 'When I was young I thought I knew much. When I became old, ripe in wisdom, I came to understand that I know nothing."
agree with your entire post
Except I am OK with the Eagles first picks. The average success rate is 75%, I thin the Eagles in comparison to other teams are in the upper level of success. Had Shawn Andrews not went nuts we could be having a different conversation right now.
I also think not having Jim Johnson made our two DTs look worse. Johnsons last year our D line was a strength. The biggest off season acq so far is our new D-line coach, and i’m most excited about what he can do with our players.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Yes d-line and o-line coaches should make a big difference, I think those d-linemen are gonna look much better now, i hated segrest with a passion…
I’m okay with their picks too, really there’s not much to complain about, we’ve had it pretty good, i’m just ready to go from pretty good to champions now. I think they are still getting better with their drafts, so hopefully this year’s 1st pick should be good too.
Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much. - Dhammapada
Socrates in his last days said, 'When I was young I thought I knew much. When I became old, ripe in wisdom, I came to understand that I know nothing."
Lesson #2
Jeremy Maclin after only 2 years in the league is just going to be a solid player. BUMMER! Even though he improved from year one from year two, I really had some expectations in year three where a WR typically blooms. Bummer Bummer Bummer
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Bummer......
i bet the Broncos thought they had a future pro bowler when eddie royal came out and had a 90 rec. rookie campaign lol, its ridiculous, im sorry for not putting Maclin into the HOF already off 2 good years in the league LOL
the debate here was.....
about if Maclin is a elite receiver, u guys seem 2 think he is off of 2 good seasons while i on the other hand want 2 see more b4 im willing 2 give him superstar status, it is hard 2 find any 1 real weakness in his game, the only thing i can really think of is he does kinda struggle against bigger and more physical DB’s. O ther then that its hard 2 find a glaring weakness in his game, people gotta realize his stats are gonna be eye candy because of the offense he plays in and who hes surrounded by.
No one is calling him a superstar, the debate that you ignited is whether or not he has the potential to become a great receiver in the league, you put a cap on his development and said he would never be anything more than ‘good’. He is a 22 year old receiver who is already border-line probowl material. Most receivers don’t even begin to reach their full potential until year 3. There are no holes in his game at this point, he is a complete receiver who can do it all and he is only 22 years old, he is only going to get better.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
i seriously hope ur right.......
i really do, and yeah his stats his first 2 years are eye opening but like i said b4 that could in part be because of our pass happy offense and Djax garnering most of the attention . Another thing is i just think he will have a hard time making the pro bowl being in Jacksons shadow and being in a conference with the likes of Fitz, Roddy, Calvin, Jennings , etc. . Now tell me u wouldnt trade Maclin for any one of those names, the only one that u might have 2 think twice about would be Jennings.
Lesson #3
Every small DE in the league is now suited to play 3-4 OLB. If youre a small DE that means you have the football instincts and technique to play line backer. Good to know
Does anyone else have some more insight? illadelphia-braintrust you should have your own weekly column called "Thoughts from a Short Bus Rider.’’ Enlighten us on how bad Kolb really is and how Lito was much better than Sheldon for your first write up.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Every small DE in the league is now suited to play 3-4 OLB. If youre a small DE that means you have the football instincts and technique to play line backer. Good to know
I HATE this and everyone does it. I think it is because of how trendy the 3-4 defense is. Now every prospect is a ‘3-4’ prospect. It’s annoying. Now unless your defensive end is Julius Peppers sized they should be in the 3-4 and if your linebackers run anything more than a 4.6 they’re a 3-4 guy. And if a DT weighs 315+ they’re automatically a NT prospect. Or if a DL is 6’4" or taller they’re type cast as a 3-4 DE.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
I think you realize he's being sarcastic,
but I’m not totally sure.
I realize. I’m just saying that I think type casting players based on their size is ridiculous.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
What I take from this is
Andy has done a pretty good job. Sure he could have done better but fans always expect #1 daft picks to be superstars when in reality getting above average starters would be pretty good. There are only two busts on that list, thats not too bad just ask the Lions. It is also a bad arguement to say “We could have drafted so in so”. At the time, we were filling needs. If you always daft the best player you’ll never build a team. You have to draft the best player that fills a need. Finally, if you could draft a guy who was guaranteed to be as good as Lito was in his prime, wouldn’t you do it? Calling him a draft failure is unfair because the one thing that is unpredictable is injuries.
Cowboys suck.
DeSean not a 10/10.... yet
My only reasoning would be that it’s hard to give a 10/10 until his career has run its full course. I don’t think he’s going to have the lasting power of someone like TO in this leageu and he unfortunately has the TO personality, so I don’t know… will he be with the Eagles for 10 years and keep up this production? I think that would be required for a 10/10 draft grade.
McDougal
I always give them a pass on that one because it was one piece of bad luck after another for that guy, from injuries to getting shot just before camp began.
The preseason before he ended up on the Giants he looked like he was going to pay big dividends or at least be a valuable rotation member but he got squeezed in the numbers game.
The hard-luck picks don’t bother me as much as the whiffs they should have seen even at the time. FredEx always had character flaws and there were several better receivers available at the time, though there were also some notorious flops (David Terrell) and meh careers (Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner) taken ahead of FredEx and Reggie Wayne, Chad Ocho and Steve Smith too.
I’m generally a fan of what the Eagles have done in the draft recently. Sometimes they fail to address something, but I think we forget that 31 other teams are trying their damndest to get players too and sometimes they screw us.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
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