3 years later - A look back at the "Jeff Otah trade"
by JimmyK on Apr 15, 2011 4:35 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintBack in the 2008 draft, the Eagles traded their first-round selection (19th overall) to the Panthers for Carolina's second- and fourth-round selections in 2008, number 43 and 109 (Mike McGlynn), and Carolina's first-round pick in 2009. The Panthers selected OT Jeff Otah with the pick.
With the 43rd overall pick, the Eagles moved back again to the Vikings spot at 47th overall (Trevor Laws). In that deal, they collected the Vikings' 4th round pick, 117th overall (Quintin Demps) and gave the Vikings their 5th rounder (152).
The following season, they traded the 1st round pick from Carolina along with a 4 in 2009 and a 6 in 2010 to the Bills for Jason Peters. In summery, here's the tale of the tape:
| Gave up… | Got… |
|---|---|
| 19th overall pick in 2008 | Jason Peters |
| 5th round pick in 2008 | Mike McGlynn |
| 4th round pick in 2009 | Trevor Laws |
| 6th round pick in 2010 | Quintin Demps |
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I think it was a good trade for both teams.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Apr 15, 2011 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Well I'll tell you what
Let’s see what Washburn can do with a guy like Laws who I think has some serious potential. But still, I think when Peters is one hes definitely one of the best LTs in the game
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
It got us Jason Peters, which is almost enough for me to be honest.
Trevor Laws showed some stuff last year, so he may turn out to not be a bust which makes these moves more positive.
Why the dislikes now?
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I'm not sure what I thought back then...
but now it looks like a great move.
I’m thinking I probably hated trading away the first round pick, cause of all the “who’s gonna be our first round draftee” excitement was lost.
Come on, people...
…I think we have some people stretching the truth here. There is no way there were just as many people that liked it then that like it now. Ultimately, we drafted three players that were good but not great here. And we ended up with a bookend LT in Peters, but there is no way that you could have seen that coming. Had we traded those picks and ended up with Clay Matthews in 2009, then that’s one thing. But I have yet to hear an Eagles fan like to trade out of the first round in this past decade because we were contenders, when healthy, pretty much all that decade.
Tell the truth, people…
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
^^^
What you said. “Back then”.. we gave up a 1st rounder for Trevor Laws and a few late round picks that year and a first next year. Only listing Laws since he was a 2nd round pick, how many fans get excited about names after the 2nd or maybe 3rd round… unless they’re a steal (and really when someone says that, common thought is.. they’re lying but I gotta get psyched bout something in round 5… YAY Ricky Sapp, he’s a steal!!)
Exactly...
I’m calling BS on people who claimed to like it when it happened.
P.S. I think Sapp is going to be a really good player. Maybe not for us, because he is the prototypical 3-4 LB, but for someone.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Sapp
…was just an easy choice for that comment, nothing more. Lots of people liked him as an injured late round bargain, but we haven’t really seen him yet.
Law of averages
Speaking of classic tweeners & 3-4 LBs that we’ve drafted, wouldn’t the law of averages dictate that eventually one of these guys will pan out and contribute to our Def?
I hope Sapp can be that guy. If my memory serves me correct, and that is a scary proposition, he would have gone a lot higher had he not been injured. I guess you can say that about a lot of guys though.
I don’t know if law of averages works that way… its all on whether or not the skill is there. You can’t keep on calling electricians thinking that by law of averages, eventually one of them can fix your leaking faucet.
by Sparki on Apr 15, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Call BS all you want
But I loved the trade at the time. Was I a little let down that I didn’t get a first rounder to be excited about? Sure. But If you trade the 19th overall pick and get a second, fourth, and next year’s first for it? How can you NOT see that as great value?
I didn't say I didn't see it as great value.
However, when you feel like you are one, maybe two players away from a championship and you trade out of the first round, most people I know would not feel good about it. At least, not until the next year when you make two first round picks or trade one.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
I thought we got a really sweet deal/
We got a First , A second and a fourth for a 1st round draft pick.
Hell I hope someone gives us a deal like that this year.
Yeah...
I’m not saying it was not a good deal. But most Philly fans that I know wanted an impact player NOW (meaning, at that time) because as long as McNabb was at QB and healthy, we were contenders.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
My vote for “liked it then and like it now” is strictly from being blindly loyal. I am farrrrrrr from a draftnik. And i trust the front office. So I saw what they did…and said, “OK.”
The draft is always a fun time, but I just really dont follow college ball at all. So for me to have an opinion beyond agreeing with guys making a living to scout talent would be ignorant.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Apr 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're in the same boat
But with a different opinion… Not that I don’t trust them, but since I’m not a draftnik either and only loosely watch college ball, even though the draft is still really fun.. the fun is in the first early rounds, so when they trade it away.. even if I know they are smarter than me.. they’ve traded away some of my fun…
by Sparki on Apr 15, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t disagree with that. But that doesn’t mean I don’t back them.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Apr 15, 2011 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly...
Both having an opinion and supporting their decision are not mutually exclusive ideas.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Psychologists say that being willing to delay gratification for a later, greater reward is the measure of maturity.
Psychologists are stupid heads...
I win.
by Sparki on Apr 15, 2011 8:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I liked it then because...
I thought the Panthers pick was going to be top 10. I remember with each panthers win that season I was liking the trade less and less.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
by no1pipelayer on Apr 15, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, however...
Peters is why you should like it now. We didn’t get Peters until the next year… unless you are psychic, you can’t consider it as something to be happy about “back then” (meaning during the draft when the initial trades were made). I do think you can include the later round pick trades, as they were within a day of initial.. but not Peters a year later. Off topic, what are the lotto numbers for Florida next week?
by Sparki on Apr 15, 2011 9:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Off topic, what are the lotto numbers for Florida next week?
5-1-7-12-5-19
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
Five is coming up twice?
Damn Florida…first they fuck up the election…now the fuck up the lottery.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
That is so not true. The guy gave up 16 sacks the year before Andy traded for him, he was generally regarded as one of the worst tackles in the NFL after that season.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
It wasn’t 16. I don’t remember the number, (and it wasn’t great; like 11.5) but he wasn’t “worst”, just overrated by Pro Bowl voters.
He’s been stellar for the most part since he’s come here.
DTMWTD
by alcatraz0109 on Apr 17, 2011 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I dislike it then, I did wanted Otah. But since Eagles wind up with one of the best tackles in the league in Peters, solid backup in McGlynn (though I don’t get why people want him at right guard…), a guy finally coming together in Laws, and a whiff. I’ll take that any day of the week.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
Why wouldn’t people want McGlynn at RG? We have JJackson at C, and could use a big upgrade at RG. We can always draft someone or acquire another RG, but why not look at our internal options first? Besides, from what I can remember Mike’s natural position is RG, not C.
"You don't call retarded people retards. It's bad taste. You call your friends retards when they're acting retarded." - Michael Scott
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Apr 15, 2011 3:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't mind McGlynn at RG...
…as long as I know he is going to work out for us. Problem is, we don’t know that for sure right now so it would be irresponsible not to shore up one of the most glaring (if not THE most glaring) deficiencies from an NFC East championship team last year.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
We have JJackson at C
Who is turning 31 in May, had a season ending bicep injury at beginning of last season, and tore his ACL at the end of the previous season. I don’t think he is going to be that good of an option.
And yes, big upgrade is needed at RG and McGlynn is better than Nick Cole or MJG. Then again, I’m a better option than the latter two and I’m 160 pounds soaking wet. And even though center isn’t his natural position, he still really was not all that great at blocking. Looking at internal options is fine and all, I just don’t see any good ones.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Cam Newton: future QB bust
But that...
had a season ending bicep injury at beginning of last season, and tore his ACL at the end of the previous season. I don’t think he is going to be that good of an option.
Is what makes him a good option. It takes 1.5 years on average to fully recover from an ACL tear. He actually made it back in an astonishing amount of time, especially for a 30 year old center, but due to the injury to his bicep, he got to take the whole year and finish the rehab process. Since he injured his bicep so long ago, he has had more than enough time to rehab that. He should come back to us 100% and centers can play FOREVER. (Forever = as long as his knees and hips hold up)
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Wasn’t it his tricept on his hiking arm, not the bicept?
And he might have had all season to heal and rehab, but I don’t know if I would trust the strength of it right away. Reid liked to put vick in shotgun a lot last year
by Chad K on Apr 15, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nope...
Torn biceps. And of course he wouldn’t trust the strength of it right away…but that is what preseason (if we have one) is for.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
biceps
per rotowrld and wikipedia
damn
8.5 hour workday before i made a comment, and i was on the metro when i did.
if i remember correctly, after like 10 drinks, AR said bi’s but it turned out to be tri’s. which i see the confusion.
I could be wrong but JJ tore his dominant arm tricep which is the dominant muscle when you are hiking the ball to the qb. what i was trying to say between the exhaustion and drunkenness is that i dont see anyway JJ will be able to hike the ball for an entire game again
JJackson’s injuries do concern me. I was very nervous about that whole situation going into last season. But the feeling I’ve been getting this year is that he’ll be back for real. Maybe that’s just me being over optimistic.
I also agree that our internal options aren’t all that desirable, but like I said down to Joe_D below, I think he deserves a shot the most if we can’t get a clear upgrade over him. Obviously, then, I think it’s necessary we do find a clear upgrade over him. But if we don’t for some reason, then he should get a shot at RG, imo.
"You don't call retarded people retards. It's bad taste. You call your friends retards when they're acting retarded." - Michael Scott
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Apr 15, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Philadelphia Eagles
From saying Stallworth had a great year for the Pats, and something else you said, to this, you have to be the most incorrect poster on here. Even JIBTA and EvilBanner get things right.
Mike McGlyn is at best a stop gap player at any position on the line. We did have him at RG at one point. He’s not that gifted of a talent, and he’s not going to be a starter next year, with good rason.
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Joe_D
From saying Stallworth had a great year for the Pats
Joe_D, I admitted that I was wrong about that. Wasn’t it you who came up with a FanPost recently where you and others admitted mistakes? Anyway, I only said that because I have a friend who’s a Patriots fan (and a bandwagon one at that) who was ripping me as an Eagles fan because he said we were dumb to let Stallworth go, and that he was doing well up in NE. I don’t really watch the Patriots / follow Donte Stallworth’s career that closely, so I made that statement based off of what I had heard from my friend. I didn’t research it, and once I did, I realized that he didn’t have a great reason. He had a decent season (46 recs, 700 yds, 3 TDs), but not a great one. I was wrong.
and something else you said
Great argument.
you have to be the most incorrect poster on here.
Probably an exaggeration. And if it’s not an exaggeration, then I’m sorry my unintentional ‘inaccuracy’ offends you.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t upgrade at RG. If we can get a player that’s clearly better than McGlynn, whoever that might be, then I’m all for it. But if we plan to draft a G later in the draft that isn’t clearly better than McGlynn, then I’m against that, and would rather give McGlynn a chance first. I think what I said was misunderstood.
We did have him at RG at one point
I don’t clearly remember this. Do you mean in pre-season, or in reserve time? If not, then you’re not speaking from a very large sample size. Since being drafted in 2008, McGlynn had played in only 3 games before this season, and those were NOT starts. I believe he was on the depth chart at RG, yes, but I don’t think he got any significant playing time there. As for this season, we obviously know he played at C. I can’t remember if he started at RG before JJackson went down at C, but again, that wasn’t any significant amount of time.
Mike McGlyn is at best a stop gap player at any position on the line. He’s not that gifted of a talent, and he’s not going to be a starter next year, with good rason.
I agree that Mike probably isn’t the most talented guy. I’m just saying that I think he deserves a chance before we write him off as a backup unless we can get a clear upgrade over him.
"You don't call retarded people retards. It's bad taste. You call your friends retards when they're acting retarded." - Michael Scott
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Apr 15, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Only problem is...
I think he deserves a chance before we write him off as a backup
By the time we would have figured out that he isn’t going to work, we would no longer have the chance to draft players or sign free agents to play RG and would be left looking for options to trade for or roster cuts. I don’t want another year of a patchwork line.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
... That's out of context.
You didn’t include the rest of the sentence, which is:
unless we can get a clear upgrade over him.
Again, if we don’t bring someone in who is a clear upgrade over him (and I hope we do find an upgrade over him) then I think he should get the chance.
"You don't call retarded people retards. It's bad taste. You call your friends retards when they're acting retarded." - Michael Scott
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Apr 15, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's just what I mean...
I didn’t take it out of context, I am emphasizing the fact that we can’t do both. If we are going with McGlynn, we don’t need to draft an RG high…and if we draft an RG high, it should be with the intentions of McGlynn not being the starter.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
“Patchwork line” is a bit of a stretch, isn’t? Peters and Todd the homophobe are set on the L side and I would hardly call them patchwork. JJ could be solid to quite solid if healthy (huge if, I admit). McGlyyn was adequacious at best @ C, but he could get better, especially under the new OL Coach, and I think he will be better @ RG. Ditto for Justice @ RT.
The truth is that every team needs competition. Especially us, and especially on the R side of the OL. So you are both right, and both wrong. Very diplomatic of me.
by The Reddgie on Apr 15, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I think the only part of the line last year that wasn’t patchwork was the left side. You could probably argue the right side was fine, but I would still say it was clearly below average
that right side of the line was an effing joke
from C to RG to RT, joke joke joke… patch work is generous
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
I was speaking about the right side...
Which is the most important now since it is Vick’s blind side. We played two players at center, three players at right guard, and two players at right tackle. That is 7 players for 3 positions. I would call that patchwork.
Oh and…
adequacious – Definition please.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
Initial disappointment
when the trade was made, but then after taking a little time to think it through and think about the possibilities that having 2 1st round picks generates, I was ok. Once we used it to secure J Peters, I was a lot better with it.
So much so that I would be ok (maybe even better than ok) with doing the same this year, assuming that the 2 guys I want @ 23 are gone (Smith and Wilkerson).
After all of the trading back and the apparent success we had in getting quality guys from our quantity of picks last year, it would be hard to argue with doing it again this year (with the caveat that last year’s draft was much deeper and that made it easier to find guys late who can contribute and it may be much harder to duplicate that feat again this year).
May I Have 4 First Round Picks Please?
My suggestion is to trade our #1, #2, and Kevin Kolb, each for #1 picks in the 2012 draft, so we’ll have 4 number ones next year. That’ll free up some FA money.
by MayIhave10,000marblesplease? on Apr 15, 2011 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
I defintiely didn't like it immediately
I was ready for them to take a player and i didn’t want to wait another hour and a half to see who they drafted haha. I also was hoping we’d draft Jeff Otah at the time.
I disliked it then because I thought Jeff Otah was going to be a beast. Jeff Otah did become a good RT but the Eagles got a good haul from this trade as well with starters at the LT and C spots along with a potential future starter at DT.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango
In the beginning.....
I liked it, figuring the Panthers would be bad, and give us a very good pick from it, even though I didn’t like trading away our first round pick. When they went 12-4 that year, I was really pissed. I figured 8-8 at best, with hopes of 6-10 or worse.they have one good year and it’s when we get their first round pick, Go figure.
But overall I’m happy with the trade. I would imagine if we didn’t make the trade, we don’t get Peters, and we use that pick to draft some guy with an ACL injury
"If it bleeds, we can kill it" -Dutch
"Men are clinging to football on a level we aren't even aware of. For centuries, we ruled everything, and now, in the last ten minutes, there are all these incursions by women. It's our Alamo."
-Tony Kornheiser
I was also unhappy when Carolina went 12-4 the next year and their draft position dropped from 13th to 28th. Now look at where they are! I wish the future draft pick had somehow been conditional upon Carolina’s record the next year. But we still managed to get Peters so I guess it all worked out well.
by AnotherAndyR on Apr 15, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Relative value of draft picks
When trading future draft picks, a rule of thumb is that teams move back one round when they move forward one year. Therefore, Carolina’s 1st round pick in 2009 should have been worth as much as their 2nd round pick in 2008. Based on that assumption, the draft value chart indicates that their picks were worth a total of 931 points, which is 7% more than the value of 867 points for the Eagles 1st pick.
Has anyone seen an evaluation of whether teams actually follow the rule of thumb, or how closely their trades typically match the draft value chart? This example seems fairly well balanced to me.
Oops. The Carolina picks were worth 996 points, which is 15% more than the Eagles pick. So the first trade looks even better. In the second trade the Eagles got 490 points from Minnesota, which is 2% less than they gave up.
by AnotherAndyR on Apr 15, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is everyone saying “there’s no way this many people liked it back then”?
I remember when it happened, and I was all for the trade. I was disappointed we traded away our pick, but when I heard the haul I was floored.
We moved down a round and picked up a #1 pick the next year, and an additional pick. Regardless of who we get with those picks, we won that trade in value, without question.
Until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached, no free agents can be signed and no players can be traded.:3™
agreed
A young top 3 LT talent?
My thought process was the sane, kinda mad we lost the pick, but Peters was a much needed upgrade
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
McGlynn was not a young top 3 LT talent in 2008
And we didn’t get Peters in the 2008 trade. The next year we used the pick we got to trade for him, so the deal started looking better, but wasnt as great back when it happened.
by Sparki on Apr 15, 2011 9:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The only problem with that argument...
Regardless of who we get with those picks, we won that trade in value, without question.
We have no idea of knowing if the player we would have gotten, whether Otah or not, would have been a player that could have put us over the top. I know, I know…that is a far fetched thought process…however, it does deserve merit. Trade value has to factor in what could have been done with that pick.
I-C-Y-U-H8-ME
disliked it then, dislike it now
I still would rather have Jeff Otah. I think he is a better tackle then Peter’s and Laws and McGlynn are nothing special. Adequate back ups at the best. Nope, give me Otah at that pick and I am more satisfied.
"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins
"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee
"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson
by Talon Talent on Apr 16, 2011 2:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
lawlz
Otah’s been hurt much more than Peters, and while Otah’s a decent run blocker he isn’t close to Peters in that category; at least Peters has shown some improvement.
I will agree that Laws hasn’t lived up to his draft pick and McGlynn isn’t antastic; however, in terms of net acquisition, Peters, Laws, and McGlynn have been better than Otah and that is what I’ll base my judgment on.
DTMWTD
by alcatraz0109 on Apr 17, 2011 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
DeSean Jackson
Just a reminder that the Eagles picked DeSean Jackson two spots later than Trevor Laws. If the Eagles had merely switched the order of picking those two players, would it alter your opinion of the original trade to swap draft picks? I prefer to look at each step separately:
1) What was the expected value of the draft picks from Carolina?
2) How well did the Eagles end up using the draft picks?
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