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Understanding A Staple Of The Eagles' Offense

Gentlemen, I have my schematic hat on today. It gives me great pleasure to provide a thorough breakdown of the design and execution of one of the staple plays of the Eagles' offense.

If you pay attention, you will not only gain a greater understanding of the Hi-Lo concept that is so critical to our offense, but you will also grasp how this versatile concept is designed to beat various standard defensive coverages.

Step up, concentrate, and imbibe deeply of that timeless, 200-proof DSmith215 wisdom. Mmmmmm, it goes down smooth.

I present, on behalf of Team Erudition:

Posse Left 629 Cross TE Read

Star-divide

 

If you're at all interested in the technical side of football and you're an Eagles fan, you know about this play. You may not know it by name, but you'd probably recognize it as an Andy Reid classic even if you saw it run by a different team. You may have even run it in Madden a few times.

This play is designed to have a viable receiving option regardless of the coverage run against it, and it's a go-to play at many different down-and-distance situations for the Eagles.

Schematically, the play looks like this:

 

Crossq_medium

(All Images created by DSmith215)

If you're one of the very small group of people who looked at that diagram and said, "Oh yeah, that play," pat yourselves on the back for being a schematically sound fan. What I'm going to do for you all is break down the structure and terminology of the play, then walk you through the routes.

This play is run out of the Eagles' most common offensive set, which Andy and Marty call "Posse." It's 3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE. The play is run with a five step drop, a mild left slant to the QB's dropback, and a pocket designed to be stronger to the QB's blind side. In this play, LeSean McCoy has no route to run, only a pass protection assignment biased toward the right side.

The name of the play gives you a lot of good info as to how it's set up. The personnel grouping is "Posse Left" because Avant is in the slot (Y) to the left of the OL, which in this case is the weakside. Maclin is up on the line as the Split End, (X) and DeSean is alone on the right, back behind the LOS as the flanker, (Z). Their routes are numbered left to right because their lettered assignments would be written left to right: X, Y, Z. Celek, as the single TE, has an option route. However, he only exercises the option in specific circumstances, which I'll get into later.

So, from left to right:

Maclin's route, the "6": In this play, Maclin will run an 7-10 yard square-in route which breaks toward the strongside of the formation. He comes off the line as though he were running a fly route, or "9", in an attempt to get the DB to give him a too-large cushion which will result in his being wide open when he breaks to the inside.

This is an effective bluff since Jeremy is very fast and the Eagles do have a few plays from this formation which are "99" plays, or double-streaks on the outside.

Avant's route, the "2": This route is the heart and soul of the play. First thing to note: "2" is the number for a slant, and Avant isn't really running an extended slant here. It's actually a much more nebulous drag/cross route which varies in its spacing and depth based on how Avant reads the coverage in mid-sprint. Marty sends Avant out into this route so often some people actually call it the "Philly cross" or "Eagle cross".

The reason this route is numbered as a "2"  is because Avant runs the first part of it as a slant with a hard inside release move. If the blitz comes heavy from the weakside, Vick can throw to Avant as though Jason were running a standard slant, a widely-used blitz-defeating route. Avant, as you all should know, is a terrific route runner, so while this route requires a lot of discipline, #81 has the skills to pay those bills. (Interestingly, as Maclin has developed his route running, Marty has started giving him this route as well.)

Jackson's route, the "9": No fancy tricks here. DeSean gets going behind the LOS and runs vertically. As the route develops, he will bend it toward the sideline. There are two interesting things about this route, though.

Interesting thing one: DeSean will often give himself another half-step back from the LOS in this personnel package because he wants extra time to get up to speed. There are two reasons for this. One, DeSean's release technique sucks dirty ditch-water, (sorry, it's the truth, watch some film,) so he can use the extra speed to avoid a jam, and two, the extra speed eats up the DB's cushion faster, making the streak deadlier.

Interesting thing two: the reason DeSean bends so many of his go routes toward the sideline is because of how small he is. He's never going to be able to out-muscle a DB for the ball, so Marty has the QB throw it where either DeSean's going to grab it or it's going to go sailing out of bounds.

Celek's route, the "Option": Celek runs a simple out route with a short curl option. Celek will only run the curl option if he sees a blitz coming, especially from the SAM 'backer who would usually be covering him. Celek can also be ordered into the curl at the line by the QB, although Eagles QBs are rarely given a lot of freedom to do route adjustments pre-snap.

So, that's how the play is designed. Here's why it's so effective against various standard defenses.

Posse Left 629 Cross TE Read vs. 2-Man Coverage:

Crossv2man_medium

Here is a vanilla 2-Man look against this play. I'm assuming, for simplicity's sake, that the defenses will be run out of an ordinary 4-2-5 Nickel defense. In this defense, the scheme is to keep both safeties back to guard against the deep ball, and to trust their DBs and LBs to handle their men one-on-one.

DeSean isn't a good look for Vick in this situation, as he's going to end up double-covered pretty much every time. However, the matchup of Avant on the opposing NB is one the birds will take every time. Also, if the defense's RCB gives Maclin a big cushion, he often ends up wide open in front of the safeties.

You all have probably seen this happen a lot and perhaps wondered, "How did Maclin get so open there?" Well, dudes, that's how. This deep square-in route has sort of become the Jeremy Maclin special. (Ironically, T.O. used to be great at this route. Remember?) Another option against this coverage is a quick throw to Celek if Marty thinks the opposing LB is over-matched.

Posse Left 629 Cross TE Read vs. Cover-1 Coverage:

Crossvcov1_medium

Here's a Cover-1 look against this play. 1 safety high, WLB in a short zone, SS with a long-cover on the RB, normal man-on-man everywhere else. Against this coverage, Vick will look primarily for Avant in the "second window", meaning he has run past the LB's short zone, and for DeSean on his deep route.

Often in Cover-1, the FS will move to run with Maclin after he makes his break to the inside, as the RCB will have no help and be pursuing from the backside of the play. This leaves DeSean one-on-one running downfield. We score a lot of touchdowns that way. Celek is a bad choice as the SS has a good angle to get to him along with the SLB if he catches a pass in the flat.

Posse Left 629 Cross TE Read vs. Cover-2 Coverage:

Crossvcov2_medium

Here's the play against a standard 4-2-5 Cover-2. Against this play, Cover-2 is the best defensive call. When our division opponents think this play or some variant of it is coming, their standard call or audible is to a Cover-2 defense.

In Cover-2, DeSean's deep route is shut down by the two high safeties, Celek will be running right into the LCB's zone in the flat, Avant will be running through the entire cloud of short zones on his cross, and the safeties are back to contain the damage if Maclin gets the ball on his square-in.

The birds have three options if a Cover-2 is called against this play. None of them are super great. First, Vick can throw the ball to Celek right away and hope he runs the LCB over. Second, Vick can throw the ball to Maclin before he makes his break inside in the gap between the RCB's and FS's zone. This can work, but it means Jeremy really needs to be awake. Third and last, Vick can bomb it to DeSean if he thinks the SS is out of position or if DeSean has beaten the press at the line (remember Cover-2 usually calls for press coverage by the CBs at the LOS,) and has gotten a free run into the secondary. This doesn't happen very often because, as mentioned earlier, DeSean's release technique stinks like a thousand ancient sewers.

Posse Left 629 Cross TE Read vs. Cover-3 Coverage:

Crossvcov3_medium

This play works great against Cover-3. If the Birds catch a defense in Cover-3 with this play called, they usually get a big chunk of yardage. That's because Cover-3 is vulnerable to the two deepest routes in the play: Maclin's square-in and DeSean's streak.

In Cover-3, the FS is kept high in "center field" while the CBs backpedal furiously. The SS moves forward toward the LOS, (this is why Cover-3 is great against the run,) while the NB and the SLB cover the flats as best they can. The WLB provides the other short zone in the middle along with the SS.

Since Maclin is coming off the line as though he were running a 9 route, the RCB will give him lots of cushion. Therefore, when Maclin makes his break, he'll likely be open with only the FS in between him and the endzone, as the RCB will be pursuing from the backside after having to come out of his backpedal and change direction completely. The SS is moving toward the LOS and the LCB will be busy trying to keep up with DeSean, who actually is running a 9. Don't you trust Jeremy to make a lone FS miss one-on-one? Yep, Marty does too.

DeSean's route is particularly deadly against a Cover-3 because of its bend to the sideline. The single high safety in Cover-3 gets pinned in the middle because for a while, it looks like DeSean and Maclin are both running streaks. Therefore, when DeSean bends his streak to the outside, he'll have a good one-on-one with the LCB, and the FS will usually be too late to catch up if Jackson can make the grab.

How Vick chooses his guy in about 3.5 seconds:

When the ball is snapped, the first thing Vick does is read the safeties. If he sees single high, he's anticipating some form of either Cover-1 or Cover-3, both of which are vulnerable to DeSean's deep route and to Maclin's square-in.

If he sees both safeties back, he's anticipating some form of either 2-Man or Cover-2, both of which have a positive look to Celek or to Avant at some point in his special crossing route.

If a blitz comes, Vick counts on Celek to run his curl option if the blitz comes from the defense's left, or he'll throw the ball to Avant on a functional slant if the blitz comes from the defense's right.

The Implications:

Just to be very clear, this Hi-Lo concept isn't unique to this play, nor is it unique to the Eagles. The Hi-Lo system is a staple of the West Coast Offense, and the Eagles run a variant of it out of many different personnel groupings, off the play-fake, and even near the goal line.

However, the Hi-Lo construct is especially prominent in Andy Reid's system and takes advantage of the types of skill position players that the Birds have collected over the years. Next time you're watching an Eagles game, be alert for these kinds of concepts, as noticing them will help you understand how Andy and Marty attack defenses.

That's all, folks.

I hope you have emerged from this better informed and with material you can use to lecture your fellow Eagle fans on how our offense works.

Two final things:

One: if you honestly already knew all of this, shout yourself out in the comments. You are a schematic baller and deserve it.

Two: Jason and Co., if I don't get front-paged after all of this work, I will have to assume you are working in concert with CNCITINFO and beat you with dead fish. (/s)

May your joys be many and your nights merry, and may the Birds finally win a Superbowl.

Poll
What's your reaction to this post?
DSmith, you have no goddamn life.
31 votes
Cool, dude. Ludicrously long, but cool.
84 votes
I am Marty Mornhinweg and knew all of this already.
36 votes
Sean Connery.
67 votes

218 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 156 comments  |  36 recs  | 

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Comments

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Oh

And if you guys have questions, shoot them at me and I’ll help as best I can.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

One's a sick duck...

I forget the rest, but your mother’s a whore.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Jap Anus Relations please

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 23, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Defensive player of the year for 2011 is...

Wild_Eagle!

Yes, Wild_Eagle's infamous reputation did help him get this award. But he shows that he walks the talk that he serves...with his keyboard. Wild_Eagle protects the motherland (BGN) from the evils of noobs, douche-bags, and other assholes. Although he may be crude and unnecessary, all great defenders draws the yellow flag from time to time.

by wild_eagle on Feb 23, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You were correct, this is a masterpiece. Rec’d.

Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango

by d-jackfan10 on Feb 21, 2011 9:03 PM EST reply actions  

Haha

After telling you that, I had to walk my talk. Thanks for the good vibes, DJF10.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Great job

and I rec’ed it, but I had to vote my conscience and go with Sean Connery.
Seriously though, this is great and why I come to BGN, to learn more about football.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.

by KByars on Feb 21, 2011 9:08 PM EST reply actions  

Dude

The answer is always Sean Connery.

And thanks.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh thank god. Because I barely understood the post (maybe because I’ve never played football or maybe because I’m an idiot), but at least I got the test question right.

Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Feb 21, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

Thank God for small favors.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I need more time reading this but I rec'd this shit already.A true masterpiece

I’m sure we ran this play on the first play of the Cowboys game which resulted in a 60 yard gain,Marty?

Rivals beware

by starship 007 on Feb 21, 2011 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

Damn. I don't have that film.

Which Cowboys game, though? The real one, or the fake one?

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

No film.

I don’t have that game recorded, sadly. Maybe NFL. com has it buried in their videos somewhere.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe.

You can check if you want.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Awesome.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope,the formations are not the same

We’ve got our backup tight end on the left(i forgot his name),Desean on the far right,either Maclin or Avant in the slot right(i can’t tell).There are no wideouts on the left side of the field.

Like on the first play of the Monday Nighter vs Washington,Vick sells a hard play fake to Shady,and what I like about this is that the O-line sells it as well .Shady runs a flat to the right.(In my opinion,that was a stupid call,because if Vick held the ball for half a second longer,he’d been blindsided).And plus,He wasn’t open anyway.Jeremy or Jason runs a post,which leaves Desean 1 on 1.Brent Celek is in the play and I believe he runs a delayed out route.

Rivals beware

by starship 007 on Feb 21, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

That sounds like what I was talking about about the hi-lo concept being applied to other formations and protections.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh and

His name is Clay Harbor.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Btw

That’s a weird fucking name.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

More like Gay Harbor. Amirite?

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL OMG

IT’S BECAUSE CLAY SOUNDS LIKE GAY

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

DOOD U R SO FUNNY

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks man.

I worked on that one all day.

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I hear there are a lot of those in LA.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha

I’m really pleased that people are enjoying it.

It took a long time.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

:'(

why dm I thought we were friends

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 21, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, no fake hating allowed.

We’re all united in the goal of getting the Eagles’ brass over here so they can see how they ought to run the team.

Right?

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

But all I have is fake hating. If you take that away from me, then I will have no purpose in life.

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then

We need JIBTA to come around more often.

So we can engage in real hating.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Uda. I'm sorry.

I was jealous of your awesome post, and I lashed out at a friend. I am a heartless person. I shed a tear with you bro. :’(

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

you

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

forgot

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

you

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 21, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

lol damnit

Shut up you two lol

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Off Topic

But someone with your screen named Killed me on Kill Zone 3 last night lol I got a kick out of it

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it actually in there?

I don’t play Madden much.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Incorporate it into the game plan, i hate the default game flow, I hate wildcat plays

It’s a wastle of a down and the right side of the eagles line in the game is downright bad in real life

My mojo so dope. BITCH!

by dday on Feb 21, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

Art imitating life, I guess.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe it's called Philly cross

And it’s only available on the eagles playbook

Me Gusta Los Eagles

by RanjeethR on Feb 22, 2011 2:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Ha

Now that’s funny.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow

I’ll be damned. That’s almost exactly it.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, not quite.

No delayed route for McCoy, TE route is wrong.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

rofl

that was my exact reaction too- and I read it exactly the same. I’m glad to see its a sound principle

Usually in my custom drafts, my X is a Maclin like and my Z is a DeSean, so this became the staple. Although its called Philly Cross, you can audible just about any 3 WR set into the same principles. The only thing is to had a low outlet to the strong side.

Using a Right Handed QB, I’ll often roll strong side with it and add a running option with a mobile QB.

Good writeup though!

2010-11 Predictions:

Kevin Kolb will go to the probowl and complete >65% of passes.

Jeremy Maclyn will have more receptions than Miles Austin & Steve Smith

Graham will have the starting LDE spot tied up by week 5, win ROTY, and have >10 Sacks

11-5 finish.

by corn on the kolb on Feb 24, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

great post we need more posts like this and less of what we have been getting. REC’D

Sending pics of your junk > dog killing > generally being a douche > sexual assault allegations > being on the Cowboys.

by Mr.electric10 on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks dude

Appreciated.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

question

how did you make the plays

Sending pics of your junk > dog killing > generally being a douche > sexual assault allegations > being on the Cowboys.

by Mr.electric10 on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This is one of my favorite plays in Madden 09

Desean is always the slot player for this play :D

by Manoovi on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST reply actions  

Weird.

Do we ever actually put DeSean in the slot?

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 21, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, often times when we are facing a cover 2 defensive call the Eagles will motion DeSean inside to the slot where he will be matched up with a linebacker or a safety. They didn’t do it as much this past season because teams were careful to not let it happen but in 2009 it happened all the time. Look at the long TD pass over Aaron Ross in the Giants game.

Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
"Well as long as you want to get it right it's Princess Buttercup... Jackass." -Udalango

by d-jackfan10 on Feb 22, 2011 7:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Ohhhh, off motion.

Okay, totally.

I thought you meant specific formations with him in the slot pre-snap.

We do that with Maclin every once in a while, I think…

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

how did you make the plays

Sending pics of your junk > dog killing > generally being a douche > sexual assault allegations > being on the Cowboys.

by Mr.electric10 on Feb 21, 2011 11:05 PM EST reply actions  

Great breakdown

My question is against the cover 2, is Maclin’s 6 route not good because of the line backer playing a hook zone and the safety playing deep middle?
Oh and thanks for knocking one of my post ;(

If Revis has an Island, Asomugha should have a continent.
"beat the man in front of you, then attempt to seriously injure the quarterback."
"Reidtard" for president!!!!
Sending pics of your junk > dog killing > generally being a douche > sexual assault allegations > being on the Cowboys.

by number5 on Feb 22, 2011 12:02 AM EST reply actions  

couple reasons for this

1. maclin runs the single hi route and the fs that has deep coverage on that side of the field will help over the top, with help on the inside so he plays with that leverage.
2. the first lb (rolb) will drop between the fs and wr in that zone, making the window a little small and the timing needs to be perfect because the quick slant avant is running will freeze that lb until he passes him off to the mlb. He can hold his ground because he knows he has outside help from the zone covering the flats, playing with that leverage. Now f he were to bite on a fake to the slant maclin should have seperation from the fs right after his cut (somewhere between the sideline and zone played by the mlb).

by CornOnTheKolb on Feb 22, 2011 4:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup.

Essentially what COTK said. Both of the crosses are running through a big cloud of short zones, and the safeties have a chance to come forward and pop Maclin hard if he does get the ball.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

This was so good

That I went to the full site version on my phone just to rec it

Me Gusta Los Eagles

by RanjeethR on Feb 22, 2011 2:48 AM EST reply actions  

Well

I appreciate the effort and the compliment it implies. :-)

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

fantastic

I have a basic concept of plays so this break down and the details were phenomenal information. My favorite part was easily showing how it can be successful against various defenses. I hope you do more of these cause I will eat them up like candy. (I’m fat so that’s a lot of candy)

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Feb 22, 2011 6:38 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks, dude.

But this took so much time that I need to stop writing posts for a little while, lol.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha

I rec’d your comment. That was well-timed, dude.

I’m glad you enjoyed it. When you get to the checkout at the grocery store, you should yell to the people working there, “WHAT COVERAGE ARE YOU USING?”

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

BWHAHAHAHA

Yeah I think I will do that because for some reason the store managers keep holding up Car and Driver magazines when they talk.

Keep these things coming, maybe a “Play a Week” type thing. Thanks for the Rec.

by Two Nickels on Feb 22, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Lol

One of these a week?

I would lose my job in no time.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Okay if you did ALL OF THIS at work then two things:

1. You are gangsta as hell
2. How about monthly?

by Two Nickels on Feb 22, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha.

We might talk about monthly.

I have some stuff to say regarding our over-reliance on the Shotgun and how a lot of it is DeSean Jackson’s fault.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

After they give you confused looks, point at a random person in the store and bark at them like Peyton Manning.

RED 7! RED7! BUFFALO BUFFALO!

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

HAHAHA THIS...

plus I would also need to carry a loaf of bread around the store like a foot ball and “hit” an open cashier upon exiting the establishment. (would make a pretty funny viral video)

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

OR

The next Peyton Manning commercial. That could be funny as hell. If it happens, we should get money.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Always

In favor of getting money CHA- CHING

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Looking forward to your next one

Must.Have.DSmith215.

"This is one of the top 10 biggest bonehead trades in the history of the NFL."
-Redskins TE Chris Cooley

by Ralf E Chubbs on Feb 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks, dude.

We all do our best for the community here, yourself included.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

EH

I gotta keep myself in check every now and again, but thanks. We’ll be here for a long time; ,might as well develop friendships…

"This is one of the top 10 biggest bonehead trades in the history of the NFL."
-Redskins TE Chris Cooley

by Ralf E Chubbs on Feb 22, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I call this play in madden all the time

but I usually audible the X receiver deep to force the usually human controlled FS to stay back and respect it, allowing me to either hit the slot cross or take off running with Vick to the left.

by AZ Eagle on Feb 22, 2011 2:52 PM EST reply actions  

Sadly though Avant is no good in madden. His lack of speed I understand, but they don’t even give him hands or route running.

by AZ Eagle on Feb 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Weird.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

Now that’s hilarious.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

good post smith, hi-low concepts are a go to call for me

couple of nitpicking things here, sorry to be specific-
Posse is a personnel grouping, not a formation. Posse is like you said- 3 wr, 1 te, 1 rb. however “posse left” means nothing. every team has a posse group, but the formation would be called double or 2’s, and it’s to the right. the strength of the O is called to the Y, who is the TE not the slot, and to the right here. For example, your posse group could line up in bunch, trips, trey, solo, trio, spread, tite spread, whatever, but whenever you have a Y (TE) in the game, the strength of your formation is called to his side. Most teams call their slot receiver S, W, or sometimes U for Wing or Under. If there is no true TE in the game, then a slot receiver might be designated a Y, not the case here.

Also, the Cover 1 you have drawn up is actually a version of cover 1 Robber, with the Will as the Robber underneath. Cov 1, or Man Free, is a bit different as there is no middle slant support, but the concepts are similar so it’s no big deal.

For clarity’s sake, Celek’s route as you describe it is not a “read route”, it’s an alert. If his read is the blitzing Sam backer, then he is the alert route or ‘hot’ read. An option route is a built in call. Any player can be deemed the alert, so long as he is close enough to the spot where a blitz might come from. i know it’s a very small detail, but they’re important differences in the play design.

Finally, the QB shouldn’t have any angle on his drop on this play, especially away from the direction of the routes as it increases the likelihood he will have to throw cross-body, which is dangerous. might have just been a bit of drift in his drop from when you watched it? lots of qb’s drift a little, not built in.

Like I said, very good post, sorry to be such a detail-oriented guy haha

by dannymac56 on Feb 22, 2011 2:59 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Hey thanks.

I appreciate the extra info.

I got my formations, routes, and groupings info from the football coach at my old school, so I can’t claim to be anything like an expert in the specific nomenclature you’re describing. I am aware of the issues with Posse being a group and not a formation, but I don’t know the specific names the Birds use for their formations, and I didn’t want to guess.

Also, I know about the whole TE offense-weighting thing, but I didn’t want to confuse the casual readers here. I was worried about getting too deep into Xs and Os and having the whole thing seem unapproachable.

I know the C:1 I drew looks like a robber play, and I know Man Free is a little different. I was trying to draw something simple without delving into the difference between combined-release coverages and robber coverages. See above.

I get what you’re saying about the angle on the drop. However, I watched the birds run this play about 100 times on film to write this post, and Vick shaded to his left every single time when there wasn’t a WS overload blitz. So, I don’t know what to tell you there. Ask Michael Vick about it.

Thanks again for the extra info. I have rec’d your comment.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

I’d love to talk to an Eagles player about what specific phrases and names they use in their offense, but sadly, I don’t know any of them firsthand.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed, talking to active coach or player would be great

my guess is they call this formation double, every nfl and college coach i’ve talked to and every playbook i’ve read through of any level calls it double so you’re probably safe there.
robber fits the combo description, but i see what you’re saying- simplicity.

on the drop, maybe that’s a tendency vick has on a lot of 5 step drops? He is a lefty. the only reason i could think of to do that on purpose would be to draw any lb playing spy or short zones to the left, but it still would require a throw across the field which is universally avoided. But then, we aren’t andy reid, so who knows.

by dannymac56 on Feb 22, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

Vick likes running to his left, and with the heavy protection right shading his drop to the left might open a sort of undesigned counter-style QB run against the grain.

But yes, it’s all speculation.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

also for anyone wondering

why they never heard of posse before, i’d say a good amount of teams call that “11” personnel. most teams in the nfl do their groupings by numbers, first number for the backs, 2nd number for te’s. 11 is 1 back, 1 y, 3 wr (posse). 21 is 2 backs, 1 y, 2 wr (pro) and if you had 23 it would be 2 backs and 3 tight ends (often called heavy or kings)

just in case there is any confusion on personnel terminology.

by dannymac56 on Feb 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

However in the first play of the Cowboys game(for a 60 yard gain)

Vick rolled out left while most of the routes flowed to the right,Vick basically threw cross body,please explain that?

Rivals beware

by starship 007 on Feb 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

ok. (thanks for making me look up this exact play on nfl.com)

next time you want an answer give me a link please.
This is actually a play action pass, the eagles come out in a slot left look, with jackson lined up in the slot to the weakside, and they have a strongside wing, pretty simple design. fake handoff to the right then escape movement by qb, and the backside receivers run a switch combo route, getting the corner stuck on 1 so he has to chase 2 which is jackson on the 9 route, kinda a wheel here. sorry not doing a diagram for a comment haha.

anyway, this isn’t a boot. vick gets away from the handoff and then stops his feet right back at the hash, meaning he ends up a few feet off center from where the ball was snapped.
if you run a play action to the weak side/short side, you have to boot away a bit to get away from any unblocked run support that comes through, there’s no te to that side to help with blocking. he only ends up back in the middle of the field, and he throws to the sideline.

that’s fine, everyone does that, what you don’t want to do is intentionally make a throw harder, and you NEVER throw across the field on a short route like the hi-low concept because if you miss a defender in the mess in the middle, it could go all the way back.

I guess what I’m saying is the example you brought up doesn’t really apply to what we are talking about. For instance you’d never see a qb boot all the way to his left and then throw anything shorter than a 20 yd pass to the other side of the field. the only time this happens is in trick plays, because they’re high risk- the qb is generally taught to only throwback if the receiver is forgotten by the defense, like maclin in the second eagles-giants game near in the redzone. uncovered across the field so vick throws. it’s risky, that’s why you only see it in those tricky plays where the goal is to get the defense to over pursue, which happens often with vick of course so maybe eagles fans saw it more often this season.

it is kind of funny you tried to prove me wrong with a play that’s really just vick throwing from the middle of the field to the sideline. woulda made more sense to use that giants game play. but hopefully now you get that one too

by dannymac56 on Feb 22, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Geez danny

We need more of these at BBV!

I love these kinds of analysis.

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 23, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

How did you do these Diagrams?

I made some for the thing im doing this friday but they kinda blow.

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 22, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

Ill have to try that

so people wont bitch about the post

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the internet.

People will still bitch

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.

by KByars on Feb 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

The internet

is essentially extant ftpo bitching.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh

And comment debates on YouTube videos.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Another suggestion

if you can find it, would be to use illustrator. I coach ultimate frisbee and have to diagram plays, and find this to be a very useful tool.

With that said, zoowithroy is giving ms paint a second life and that should not be forgotten

"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone

by layout ultimate on Feb 22, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I LLOOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEEEE

ultimate frisbee

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 22, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol I'm legit.

I played at Carleton College.

Home of CUT and GoP.

The Kings of all we survey.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Good idea but

I do not have Illustrator.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

give it a look

You can try , its open-source goodness as an Illustrator clone

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Grrrr

Link fail try inkscape.org

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I hope you know that I was just kidding dude. Your post was very good.

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 22, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I know there are other jack asses out there.

like the fucker who "+1"ed your comment.

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 22, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Who cares, fuck em. You put together a good post and I honestly enjoyed reading it, and everyone knows that my approval is the only thing that matters.

Jason Peters: Heart of a Lion, Face of a Chipmunk.

by DickMuffin on Feb 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

We know you and we love the effort, U

It’s the illustrations that had us @ schematically…

"This is one of the top 10 biggest bonehead trades in the history of the NFL."
-Redskins TE Chris Cooley

by Ralf E Chubbs on Feb 22, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

u?!?!?!?!?!

Its uda mutha effer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol idc

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger.
-Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Feb 22, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuck yeah!

It’s all about presentation!

UDA

"This is one of the top 10 biggest bonehead trades in the history of the NFL."
-Redskins TE Chris Cooley

by Ralf E Chubbs on Feb 23, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Suggestion...

Hot chicks holding the stuff would have eliminated all points of contention to the 95 percentile lol

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Cheers for taking the time to write all this out, it’s much appreciated and I will be sure to look out for this formation in the future

by Brit Bill on Feb 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

Hey

No problem dude.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't know the terminology at all

but I know the concept is one that the birds use a lot. It’s also pretty broken to use in Madden as well.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Feb 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST reply actions  

savage post

cheers, only started watching football (and the eagles) in the last couple of years, this sort of thing helps a huge amount with learning the game, appreciate it

by hugekiwi on Feb 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

My pleasure.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I like that...

Savage Post. Is it safe to assume that you have some New Zealand ties due to your screen name and the vernacular used?

by Two Nickels on Feb 23, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

that was my favorite play in madden.. id have desean running the “2” tho, and hes so fast nobody could cover him

child please

by worldphuckinchamps on Feb 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST reply actions  

I think

The Eagles gave up sending DeSean over the middle awhile ago. He hates it.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

BAM

Recored Twice

Bad Ass Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by greenage on Feb 22, 2011 11:58 PM EST reply actions  

Haha

I haven’t seen one of those since fifth grade.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

For whatever reason

the diagrams on the post weren’t working for me until today, so it was tough to follow. Now that they decided to start working, I realize how great this post is. It was very, very good understanding the WRs and D schemes, but the part about how Vick reads it really puts it over the top, IMO. Rec’d.

by AmateurHour on Feb 23, 2011 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks, AH.

Appreciate the good vibes.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Great post, DSmith. Very well done. I am not an X’s and O’s guy at all so its nice to see you break it down like this. Thank you.

If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby

by GreenInBaltimore on Feb 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

Glad you enjoyed it.

Appreciate the praise, GIB.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Very Excellent

I never played football, and only became a football fan when I got to college. So this is the sort of knowledge I’d love to have more of, and definitely the type of information that’s hard to come by.

Please do a few more of these if you can find the time.

by laxer298 on Feb 23, 2011 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll try.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 23, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

This is great

Glad I read the whole thing

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 23, 2011 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

Rec'd for the poll alone

Double rec’d for how informative the post is.

by Smitty2K3 on Feb 24, 2011 9:39 AM EST reply actions  

Oh

and triple rec’d because we share the same last name.

Seriously though, how the hell do you know all of this? Are you Marty Mornhinweg in disguise?

by Smitty2K3 on Feb 24, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Lol No

I just like football, is all.

I’m a nerd and the schematic side of things appeals to me.

I’m the dude who sits on the couch and stares at Todd Herremans when the ball is about to be snapped so that I can try to call run/pass/draw/screen before the play actually starts to develop.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 24, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

couch, staring @ Todd Herremans... Umm... quirky yes...

but it is wanted, nay I say… NEEDED!!! Seriously though from the large public outcry (which clearly a gentleman of you caliber cannot ignore) must produce more of these things. I believe that things like this show fans exactly how dynamic and high-powered our offense truly is.

by Two Nickels on Feb 24, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I also think

it makes us Better fans because we are more educated about our team. Some of us might not be so quick to throw a QB or WR on the “he over threw him… cut em’ now” pile

by Two Nickels on Feb 24, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously though.

When Jason Peters is having a good game, he is super fun to watch. Just a goddamn steamroller.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 24, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Careful with that

That’s how you wind up in a van with blacked out windows.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.

by KByars on Feb 24, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Lol

rec’d.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 24, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice.. Rec'd

Outside of being able to incorrectly call some fouls as I seem them, my fooseball knowledge is only slightly better than DeSean’s release technique. But with this new intellegence, I can safely pick the right play to be my bread ’n butter in my next Madden game…

by Sparki on Feb 26, 2011 6:27 PM EST reply actions  

im gonna get flamed to hell, but...

you can’t call yourself an eagles fan if you didnt know at least some of this …
they run this play a TON, and it’s basically their signature play on madden…

MEH

by Jeff Sun on Feb 26, 2011 8:08 PM EST reply actions  

I think

You could call yourself a casual fan.

I have no problem with casual fans.

Veritas Liberabit Te

by DSmith215 on Feb 26, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure...

How does not knowing the X’s and O’s of the Eagles play book not make you a “Fan”. We have casual fans, and some die-hard fans that simply are not interested in some of the “back end” aspects of the game. I have been an Eagles fan since I was little one, I drive to Philly from Manhattan several times a year weather its to go to Lehigh to watch camp or catch a game and I don’t watch the positions as closely as DSmith215 does (He Herremans watches for goodness sake lol); does that make him a bigger fan then me?

by Two Nickels on Feb 28, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Great Read

Nice post and rec’d. I too use this play all the time in Madden with Maclin in the slot. I’m proud that my knowlege of the game has been validated. Thank you sir, please post another.

by #12 on Mar 2, 2011 5:16 PM EST reply actions  

This Play On Madden

Put Maclin in the slot and make Avant a decoy on the right side. 20-25 yards to Maclin over the LB’s head almost every time. Dump to Celek on a blitz, as you point out, because the slot does not have time to get open. Maclin’s speed is a total mismatch in the slot on this play!

by PeaceVT on Mar 2, 2011 8:02 PM EST reply actions  

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