PFF On The Eagles Awful Tackling
Pro Football Focus has their grades up for Eagles Vs Seahawks and for the most part what they found regarding the Eagles tackling was pretty much what we could have expected. Their most scary finding however, is that there isn't one really bad offender. They're all bad.
If it's good enough for Vince Lombardi to say it's good enough for me; football comes down to blocking and tackling, and tackling is not something the Eagles are very good at. Here they missed another 12 tackles, further reinforcing the fact that if it wasn't for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they would be the worst tackling team in the league. They managed to spread the missed tackles around, with only Jamar Chaney (-0.1) missing more than one as a sign of just how deep the problem lies. You take away those missed tackles and life becomes a lot harder for the Seahawks.
So 12 missed tackles. Now, missed tackles are a somewhat subjective stat, but PFF's estimation would mean the Eagles missed one fewer tackle against Seattle than they did against Buffalo, in which Sheil Kapadia counted 13 missed tackles. So it was only the second worst tackling performance of the season for the Birds....
But I think the point to take away from this is that it's a systemic problem.
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yea
up until about 5 weeks ago, i was one of the biggest reid apologists around. then i started to think that maybe he had run his course, but still gave him the benefit of the doubt. then the fourth and goal from the one fade route to celek happened, and i quit on andy. i lasted longer than a lot of the posters here and the players themselves, but i quit.
Gasp
Fuck Pacquiao, Marquez got robbed he should be 2-1 in the trilogy. Boxing is just embarrasing now, all to get the biggest payday possible. BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Great fight marquez real fans now who won.
by So. Cal Swag on Dec 3, 2011 2:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
They quit
Counting the exact number of missed tackles kind of misses the point. They simply didn’t give much effort across the board with Babin being the most glaring example (ironic given how he ran his mouth before the game).
There is going to be wholesale change again in the personnel and coaching staff on defense. Imagine most of the staff will be gone and that several starters this year from Week 1 will be different.
Too bad we don’t have a guy on the bench who was regarded as one of the best tacklers in college football last year.
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He was better than Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman, that’s for sure. Those two are the worst starting safeties in the NFL. Nate Allen has absolutely nothing going for him, he lacks awareness in coverage, he has no ball skills and he is an awful tackler. Kurt Coleman can’t survive in man coverage, lacks range and misses tackles. Jaiquawn Jarrett was at least in the right spots against Arizona and Chicago, he was just screwed over by Asante Samuel and a tipped ball went the wrong way. Oh and he doesn’t miss tackles.
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Jarrett is clueless in pass coverage and is the reason why he already been named the starter. Understand he is a rookie but it doesn’t say a lot for him when he can’t displace Allen or Coleman.
Come on.
This is the same staff that didn’t start Chris Clemons and Jason Babin. In their FIRST years away from Philadelphia they put up a combined 23.5 sacks.
This is the same staff that traded Bunkley for peanuts. We had a top 5 run defense over the time frame that Bunkley was a starter and guess what he’s doing in Denver? Dominating. Denver Broncos fans are really happy they got him. One asked me why we shipped him out for nothing, I don’t know why. Did you see him dominating Nick Mangold? I did. He’s PFF’s second ranked DT this year.
We traded Joe Mays for JJ Arrington. What does Joe Mays do when he leaves us? He goes and starts for the Broncos defense. In his two years with the Broncos he has 13 starts, 97 tackles and 9 tackles for a loss. And guess what? He turned into the great run stopping MLB we all thought he could be. Sure would be nice to have him instead of Jamar Chaney.
We traded Chris Gocong and Sheldon Brown for Alex Hall and a draft pick that led to Trevard Lindley (who is no longer on the team). Chris Gocong is now a good starter and Sheldon Brown is still a good starter. Oh and the Browns have a top 5 NFL defense with those two starting on it. Sure would be nice to have those two instead of Moises Fokou and Sheldon Brown over Ellis Hobbs last year, wouldn’t it?
We let Andy Studebaker go after a good preseason and now he is a starter on the Chiefs’ defense. Hmm…
We let Stewart Bradley go to start Casey Matthews…. Yeah.
They also let Brian Dawkins leave so that we could start Quintin Demps & Macho Harris.
And then they let Quintin Mikell go so they could start Kurt Coleman.
This staff has shown they have no ability to evaluate defensive talent. No ability at all. So the criticism that “he can’t displace Coleman or Allen so he must not be good” is completely invalid. For all we know he could be another good player just sitting the bench because of our coaches’ ineptitude.
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by d-jackfan10 on Dec 3, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And guess what? He turned into the great run stopping MLB we all thought he could be.
Don’t pretend like you, or anyone else, saw that coming. Even Denver didn’t think he would amount to anything, that’s why they let him slide into the 6th round. Mays was garbage when he was here and you know it. There was a reason he got shipped out for nothing, because he wasn’t good. Omar Gaither was outplaying him. That’s not the coaching staff’s fault. Nobody else in the league thought he would be any good either.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding me? I was parading around when Stewart Bradley got hurt because I thought Joe Mays was the next London Fletcher (less athletic). Are you forgetting how masterful he was in the pre-season? Dude was a machine.
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Are you forgetting how masterful he was in the pre-season? Dude was a machine.
So was Na Brown. It was the preason, these things happen.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agree on most of your points
Bradley isn’t exactly tearing it up in Arizona, and Studebaker isn’t a starter. Besides that, your post sums up the fact that Andy is pretty bad when it comes to evaluating defensive talent. Not to mention truly horrible in drafting defense (Though he has had some decent success at DT).
Bradley is sort of a “just a guy” type but “just a guy” is better than Jamar Chaney and Casey Matthews in the middle. And yeah, Studebacker isn’t a starter anymore (apparently I need to check in on the Chiefs more often) but still, that guy couldn’t make our roster?
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"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
This is the same staff that didn’t start Chris Clemons and Jason Babin.
As if the Eagles were the only team to give up on either of those guys.
And I thought you didn’t even like Babin. You can’t say that Babin was great when the Eagles let him go, and then sucked and was selfish when he came back, just because its convenient for your argument.
This is the same staff that traded Bunkley for peanuts.
Wow, Bunk was clearly the odd man out. The team had just signed Jenkins and already had Patterson and Dixon. There was no room for the guy. The FO did him a favor by letting him go to a place where he would actually play.
We let Stewart Bradley go to start Casey Matthews…. Yeah.
And how is Stew doing this year?
They also let Brian Dawkins leave so that we could start Quintin Demps & Macho Harris.
This is just not true. They wanted Brian back, but Dawk wanted too much money. At the time, not too many people around here had an issue with him leaving because almost everyone acknowledged that he got way too much money.
Your entire argument is centered around hindsight. Its total bullshit. God forbid a player here and there leaves the Eagles and goes on to become a starter. Your complaining about the fact that a few guys that were nothing here went on to have decent careers elsewhere. As if that never happens anywhere else in the NFL.
And its funny how your so quick to criticize the few instances where we let a guy leave and he goes on to be productive, but you don’t make any mention of when the team lets a player leave and he does nothing with his new team.
Whatever happened to Lito Sheppard? Michael Lewis? Troy Vincent? Bobby Taylor? Mark Simoneau? Trotter the first time? The aforementioned Gaither? How about Ernie Sims? Darren Howard? No credit to the front office for recognizing that all these players were done/sucked?
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
We let go of Babin and Clemons because we wanted to improve our pass rush. That was a failed move. I don’t like Babin because he doesn’t defend the run but you can’t tell me he wouldn’t have been an effective situational DE and Clemons too.
So we’re just handing out talented players? Bunk should have stayed. End of story.
Are you telling me this defense wouldn’t be better if Bradley was here starting over Chaney?
Dawkins wanted money, when your back-up plan is Demps and Harris, you pay him.
Half of those guys were old and washed up when we let them go, completely different situation. And most of those guys were under Jim Johnson too, the one guy who could find defensive talent and use it effectively. Now that JJ is gone things have change.
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can’t tell me he wouldn’t have been an effective situational DE and Clemons too.
That’s exactly how we did use him! You never saw Babin on the field on first down.
Bunk should have stayed. End of story
Easy to say that now. Did you mind the move when it happened is the real question.
Are you telling me this defense wouldn’t be better if Bradley was here starting over Chaney
Probably, but then we’d also be on the hook for something like the $10 million (guaranteed) dollar contract he got in AZ. Can you say ‘not worth it’?
Did you have a problem with letting Dawk walk at the time or no? If you didn’t, then you’re in no position to criticize. With the contract that he got from Denver, I’d let him walk again and again. He wasn’t worth the money, period. Furthermore, its foolish to think that Dawk would have greatly improved this defense. We’d still be bad if he was here because he’s not a great player or a difference maker anymore.
Half of those guys were old and washed up when we let them go
THATS THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT. When you let guys go, the logic is that they aren’t likely to be worth the money. In most cases, this team does a great job of identifying these kinds of players. You’re complaining about the 5 or so times when they weren’t correct. You can’t expect them to be perfect.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
We were giving Juqua Parker, Victor Abiamiri and Darren Howard more play time than Chris Clemons and Jason Babin. That is a failure on the part of the Eagles. Thats the point here.
Yes, I did. Ask HawaiianGreen or EvilJoeBanner how much I like Bunkley.
A half decent linebacker isn’t worth it?
I sure as hell did have a problem with Dawk leaving! I WAS LIVID! And you don’t think his leadership, experience, toughness and character would make this team better? Are you Howie Roseman?
Letting old guys go isn’t the problem, anyone can look out and say “he isn’t good anymore”. The problem is identifying potential and talent in young defenders which we’ve shown no ability to do. We have overestimated the talent of some young guys and we’ve completely ignored the talent of others. We’re a mess when it comes to identifying defensive talent.
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That is a failure on the part of the Eagles.
No, its not. Neither player did anything to prove they deserved more playing time.
A half decent linebacker isn’t worth it?
Not for the money he got. Not even close. You seem neglect the salary cap in all your criticisms of this team.
And you don’t think his leadership, experience, toughness and character would make this team better?
Only marginally. By the end of his stay here, Dawk was a glorified linebacker, which is not someone you want to pay $5 million a season to. Plus, he wouldn’t be a big upgrade over anyone on this team.
The problem is identifying potential and talent in young defenders which we’ve shown no ability to do.
Quintin Mikell, Trent Cole, Brian Rolle, Antonio Dixon, Joselio Hanson. There’s only so many under the radar guys in the NFL that you can get on the cheap that become good players.
we’ve completely ignored the talent of others.
Wow, Joe Mays, Chris Gocong and Andy Studebaker. Those are some biiiig losses. Plus, its not like those guys showed anything here anyway, nor have Gocong and Studebaker been that great since they left. And besides, Studebaker was claimed off the practice squad, so its not like the Eagles wanted to lose him. You simply can’t find spots for everyone.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Babin and Chris Clemons got consistent pressure when on the field here. Are you really going to tell me that they shouldn’t have been playing over VICTOR FREAKIN’ ABIAMIRI?!
Really, you don’t think Stewart Bradley was worth about 5 million a year? You don’t think a half decent middle linebacker that is considered a leader in the locker room is worth 5 million dollars? Do you you really think VINCE YOUNG was worth 5 million but Stewart Bradley wasn’t? Uh…
Brian Dawkins would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman. You underestimate just how terrible those two are. Nate Allen has no awareness, ball skills or tackling ability. Kurt Coleman has no talent to speak of, he is a back-up. Brian Dawkins may have lost a lot of his athletic ability but he is still better than Allen and Coleman. Sure, Dawk isn’t the same but his awareness, knowledge, instincts and run support ability still make him a far superior safety to Coleman and Allen who are collectively the worst starting safeties in the NFL and Nate Allen might be the single worst player on this roster.
Quintin Mikell, Trent Cole and Joselio Hanson all happened under Jim Johnson. Congrats, we found a decent situational DT (who was awful this year) and Brian Rolle in 3 years. WOOO!
Are you really telling me that you wouldn’t take Sheldon Brown, Brian Dawkins, Quintin Mikell, Stewart Bradley, Joe Mays, Chris Gocong, Brodrick Bunkley and Andy Studebaker on this roster right now? Because I sure as hell would.
Oh and I forgot that bizarre trade with Baltimore that netted us Antwan Barnes and then we released him a week later. Since signing with the Chargers he has 10.5 sacks.
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In 2009? Yes. Babin was a nobody before last year. Seriously, he was garbage before he found the wide 9, or, more correctly, the wide 9 found him.
And no, I don’t think Stew was worth 5 million given the kind of season he had last year. Tulloch signed for way less than that.
Dawk might be an upgrade over Allen and Colemen, but not a 5 million dollar upgrade. Do you really think Dawkins is that good anymore? Come on, I liked the guy to, but he’s ancient.
Dixon is much more than a situational DT. But seriously, what are you expecting? If you’re not willing to include pre-Johnson era guys, then you only have 2.5 years worth of guys. In the time after JJs death, how many teams have done that much better with under the radar guys? You make it sound like unknown defensive players turn into stars all the time. They really don’t.
And yes, some of those guys (actually mainly just Mikell and Bunk after Dixon got) would be a big help to this team, BUT WHERE IS THAT MONEY COMING FROM!?!?!?!?!? A little thing called the salary cap pretty much shits on that idea.
And ok, Barnes is having an decent year, but the Eagles once again weren’t the only ones to give up on him, and he’s not the great player you make him out to be. You criticize Babin for only going for sacks, but Barnes is the exact same player.
Also, just as you have done with Babin and Clemons, you neglect the fact that we aren’t the only team to have thought nothing of him. Plus, Barnes is clearly a 3-4 OLB, and we run a 4-3. Are you saying we should have switched the entire defense around for him? Similar to Babin and Clemons, he found the right situation. We can’t change the entire defense for one player.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
And Victor didn’t play over Clemons when he was here. Abiramiri was only active for 6 games in his rookie year in 08.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Stewart Bradley is NOT a “half-decent” linebacker. He has 19 solo tackles for the year in Arizona. 19! Derek Landri, who has played in 3 less games and much less of a role has 11, and that’s from the DT position.
Thats in Arizona where he can’t beat out established linebackers with experience in the scheme. Are you telling me he wouldn’t be an upgrade over Chaney?
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NOT A 5 MILLION DOLLAR UPGRADE
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 4, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
At least we have Brandon Graham.
He’s a good player and he can defend the rush (supposedly).
Although it’s pretty idiotic to draft all these undersized 6’1" players like Graham because you need length and height to defend the run.
I couldn’t figure out either why they shipped out Bunkley… Andy and Howie are to blame for that one.
Pop Quiz
Allen Iverson : Practice :: (a) Jason Avant : Home Games (b) DeSean Jackson : Getting Hit (c) Eagles Defense : Tackling (d) Marty : Hand-offs (e) Andy Reid : Reality
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by Eagladelphia on Dec 3, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Reality check
Gocong is not a good starter and Brown has struggled this year at times in coverage. Haden is the Brown’s go-to cover guy.
Bradley’s been so great he can’t even crack the Cards’ starting lineup.
Mikell has struggled again this year in St Louis coverage and isn’t the same caliber tackler he used to be.
The problem with the Eagles’ defense has been that the players were once the stalwarts of the defense got old and were released/traded/departed and the players the Eagles have replaced them with the past few years especially via the draft really haven’t done much.
Reality check check
Chris Gocong was a good starter here and he is in Cleveland too. Look it up.
Oh wow, thanks for telling me Joe Haden is the best corner on the Browns, I had no idea. Oh and Sheldon Brown has been pretty friggin’ good this year (and last year for that matter). Sheldon Brown is allowing a 53.2% completion rate when targeted, 338 yards on the year (that’s 30 yards a game), 1 TD and he has a QB rating of 74.6 when targeted. Sure, he doesn’t have the deep speed he once did but it’s not like it’s hampering his play greatly. And lets pretend for a second that Brown wasn’t a boundary corner anymore, are you really don’t think that Sheldon Brown could’ve played nickel back or been a free safety for this team? You’re fooling yourself if you think that.
Stewart Bradley can’t top Daryl Washington and Paris Lenon, two established starters who know the scheme. OMG HE MUST SUCK! Because the guy who started for our defense last year and did an above average job of it suddenly lost all of his talent, right?! I’ll say it again, if you don’t think Stewart Bradley would at least make this defense marginally better, you’re lying.
Same situation with Mikell, he’s struggled to adjust to a new team on a short offseason. But he most assuredly lost all his talent, RIGHT? Wrong. He’s the same guy who was a probowl safety for this team last year.
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Gocong is not a good starter. Not according to PFF stats or even his team stats. He’s would have been a better option than Fokou though who just struggled from the get to in this scheme and hasn’t played well all year.
Brown could have played the nickel but why pay a guy relatively big dollars as a starting CB to play nickel? The more interesting case would have been to move him to FS. Eagles thought they had a solution in Allen. Turns out it looks like they were dead wrong.
Bradley didn’t have a good year here last year and yes if he was such a good player he would have grabbed a starting job by now against such weak competition. If he doesn’t know the system by now enough to start, then he is just dumb as bricks.
Eagles would likely be better with Bradley at MLB because Matthews was so awful and Chaney has generally struggled but Bradley was weak at best in pass coverage & that’s been Chaney’s biggest problem. Bradley likely would have been a better option in the run game but he also would have a much higher paycheck.
Mikell has played pretty much poorly all season with the Rams. The problem is that the guys the Eagles replaced him with especially Page early on have been a real dropoff from even what he gave them last year in a slightly down year. Again, the Eagles made the right call on not signing him to a big deal. The problem was who they were counting on to fill the position instead.
The problem with the Eagles’ defense has been that the players were once the stalwarts of the defense got old and were released/traded/departed and the players the Eagles have replaced them with the past few years especially via the draft really haven’t done much.
So we’ve had a problem identifying and developing young defensive talent which is EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING.
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"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
Its unclear what exactly your expecting
There’s been 3 drafts since JJ died, so I’ll use that as the sample since you seem to be unwilling to even entertain the idea that anyone other Jim might have been the one to find sleeper defensive guys before that.
In 09 we used our first and second on Maclin and Shady, can’t complain there. The only 2 defensive guys coming from the 09 draft was Macho Harris (5th round) and Fokou (7th). Harris was moved around and never really found a position, while Fokou is essentially a good backup/occasional starter. For a 5th round pick and a 7th round pick, that’s not too bad.
In 2010 we got Graham and Allen. Both players looked good before they both suffered fluke knee injuries that have greatly limited their effectiveness. After that was DTO (3rd round), who was a total bust; I’ll give you that one. Lindley got caught up in a numbers game after DRC was picked up and Clayton (both 4th rounders) is still meandering on the team as a backup LB. Ricky Sapp (5th round) got hurt and then quit the team for reasons that I don’t think were ever explained. Chaney and Coleman could both be good backups/spot starters and Jeff Owens got hurt (all 7th rounders).
Its too early to determine the guys picked this year, but I’ll go through them just for arguments sake. Jarrett (2nd round) looks to me like a bust, but who knows. We haven’t seen Marsh (3rd round) because of NA/DRC. There’s Casey (4th round), who is likely a backup, Rolle (6th round) who looks like a keeper, and Greg Lloyd (7th round) who’s on the practice squad.
So in the past three years, there’s been 1 bust (DTO), a guy who is probably a bust (Jarrett), 4 guys that got hurt (Graham, Allen, Owens, Sapp) 4 guys who should be good backups (Fokou, Coleman, Matthews, Chaney), a solid LB (Rolle), a sprinkling of guys we haven’t really seen yet (Marsh, Jarrett, Lloyd, Clayton) and guys that got caught in a numbers crunch (Harris, Lindley).
So what exactly is the problem? That they missed on DTO? Your whole argument is just one really small sample that was largely affected by 2 random injuries to the 2 most important guys. If Graham and Allen hadn’t gotten hurt, I don’t think this is an issue at all. I think you should at least wait a little bit before declaring that Andy and the rest of the staff can’t find good defensive players, because they reached for DTO and Jarrett.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 4, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Video freeze it at around the 49 second mark. See that safety that’s 15 yards off the ball in the middle of that field? That’s Jarrett, watch him. Over pursues, and then runs into his own guy. Can’t do that when your the last man.
I know it was only 1 play in which a lot went wrong, but come on, you have to know your the last man.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
He got sucked inside and took a bad angle, oops. But it is also important to realize that Jarrett isn’t used to playing with such scrubs in run defense. If Babin, Jordan and Samuel did their job Lynch wouldn’t have been able to find the lane outside and Jarrett would’ve been coming down hill to make the stop. Get a DE, SLB and CB who can at least maintain their gap responsibilities and Jarrett makes that play. And he would’ve had a shot to make the tackle on Lynch if Samuel wasn’t getting mauled by a wide receiver on the edge and getting in his way.
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If Babin, Jordan and Samuel did their job Lynch wouldn’t have been able to find the lane outside and Jarrett would’ve been coming down hill to make the stop.
You know that was the exact same play that abused DeMarcus Ware right? I guess he’s a scrub too then, huh.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
WAT?
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You make it sound like the Eagles front 7 is the only front 7 in the NFL that has gotten lit up by that play. Not true, Ware specifically was routinely gaped on that play, as were the rest of the Cowboys.
But you didn’t see any of the Cowboys safeties running up the field. They retreated, because they knew they were the last line of defense.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
What play are you talking about? What game? When? What instance?
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d823a1956/Week-8-LeSean-McCoy-highlights
On both the first and second play, the safeties cover the receivers, and then retreat.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize that the safeties were a mile off the line because they were scared of DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin right? They were explicitly told to do that by Rob Ryan. As you can tell that didn’t do a bit of good for the Cowboys. Are you really using crappy safety play as an example of how Jaiquawn Jarrett should play? Please, just stop.
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Are you really using crappy safety play as an example of how Jaiquawn Jarrett should play?
Hardly. I’m showing you that even crappy safeties play that run better. Jarrett was flat out horrible on that play. He might as well have not been on the field, it wouldn’t have made any difference.
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by philiafan14364 on Dec 3, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody think this problem may stem from the reduced tackling in practices and training camps this year?
Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Are other teams having the same struggles?
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"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
It still puzzles me how Babin hasn’t got more cr@p in his city. One of the more talented yet completely selfish pr!cks that has played an Eagles’ uniform in a long time. Probably since Coleman. Carter was up there for the Flyers.
These guys are talented & can put up some decent/very good numbers but are ‘me-first’ guys who can be derisive guys in the locker room with teammates generally being apathetic to despising them and simply don’t exert much/any effort in certain phases of the game. There losers. You can win with them but only up to a point.
Yeah Babin has given the most sacks the Eagles’ had out of the position since Fuller was there. It’s been that long. The big difference is that Fuller was an effort guy who played hard, was a decent enough run defender, and definitely was in the ‘solid veteran by example’ category. Hell, Fuller was one of my favorite players on this team in the 90s because he generally left it out there on the field but he was also that way with the Oilers too.
Watch Babin on run defense. He simply doesn’t give a cr@p on trying to get off his blocker or to contain. The most damning thing though is when the play is past him that he simply gives up. At times, I have seen him stand up literally & stop despite the play still going. It happens more than just a handful of times with him too.
Yet a bunch of the press guys and some others have made some weak excuses for him including ‘he was brought into get to the passer’ and that the scheme makes him line up on the edge to fly at the QB. What about the other 40-45% of plays that are running plays? What about the passing plays where I have seen him not quite assert full effort especially if he is facing a double team or gets chipped hard? So basically he decides to really exert effort on about 50% of the plays? Maybe 60%.
If he was a 3rd down/situational rusher, he would be fine in his role but he is a full-time starter and being paid accordingly.
by MG77 on Dec 3, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Babin on his performance in the Seahawks' game
"I feel a little better about some of the hits that we put on them," said Babin after the game. "It got to be a pretty physical game. If you want to bring any silver lining, the guys on the defensive line were bringing some hits."
He completely backs out the running plays where the Seahawks run at him time and time again. Selective amnesia.
There’s a reason Holmgren thought this guy was a loser & didn’t even bother activating him most of his tenure in Seattle and he has had short stays with NFL teams.
Little known scientific fact: Doctors have discovered that Jason Babin has a clinical allergy. He’s literally allergic to run defense.
by FooFighter1124 on Dec 3, 2011 2:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
oh yah, let’s just totally ignore the fact he was signed to be a pure pass rusher and is just doing his job quite well. stupid fans never cease to amaze me.
Thank you
All this Babin hate makes no sense. His job is to line up wide, and get up and around the tackle. Every play. Period. It’s up to the OLB to fill that gap and stop the running back. It is not Babin’s fault that the LBs suck. It’s not Washburn’s or the wide-9’s either. Shitty LBs and safeties are why the run defense sucks. Not Babin’s.
Zombies are real! Jerry Jones and Al Davis are proof! Arm yourselves!
by Jason-E on Dec 3, 2011 6:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He has had some good/great games but he had also had some games (Pats/Bears) game where the Eagles had little to no pressure from their DE.
So it’s Babin’s fault that the entire d-line was stonewalled? Ok.
Zombies are real! Jerry Jones and Al Davis are proof! Arm yourselves!
by Jason-E on Dec 3, 2011 8:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It was his fault that he exerted little/no effort on the running plays and was a sieve on running plays to his side against the Seahawks. Why would you remotely give a pass to a starter who really exerts effort about half of the time?
You really have no clue. This is a pointless debate.
Zombies are real! Jerry Jones and Al Davis are proof! Arm yourselves!
by Jason-E on Dec 4, 2011 12:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t even know what ‘stoned’ means and no every d-line didn’t play poorly overall vs Seahawks. Landry didn’t play poorly. Ditto Tapp.
Babin had a decent day rushing Jackson but he also missed a tackle and most of Lynch’s yards were to this side with on 12 rushes Babin had a single tackle on Lynch.
The reason the Eagles struggled so much because Lynch ran the ball down their throats all game and they went time and time against Babin. Yes his teammates didn’t help him out much with generally poor play from the LBs and terrible play from the S position but you act as if Babin didn’t have anything to do with Lynch’s success or that is isn’t his responsbility to play the run on running plays on his side.
By this same warped logic, I guess it doesn’t matter how many Eagles’ DE plays the run then. Cole/Parker/Tapp only need to rush the passer.
You say I ’don’t have a clue’ but you don’t offer a single substantial point accept to say the entire DL was stoned (which is not accurate) and that is job every single play is to only rush the QB (only an idiot would argue on running plays).
One last point
Jon Miller summed it up nicely:
“Babin was victimized time and time again by the Seahawks (12 times total they ran outside or right at him), who brought the tight end down the line repeatedly and blocked him into oblivion. Babin, who likely thinks he should be headed to the Pro Bowl, never figured it out.
Jason Babin is the poster child for these Eagles. He’s going to do what he wants to do, the team be damned. He’s already told us that he wants to get a lot of sacks, so he can make a lot of money. Winning football games is a secondary concern.
Go back and look at Marshawn Lynch’s 40-yard touchdown run, a cutback right through the gaping hole that Babin had created by racing up field at the snap of the ball. That’s part of the Wide-9 technique – getting up field – but Babin was laughably out of position. The defensive end in professional football must – must! – set the edge to contain running backs from getting wide. The next time Babin does this will be the first.
Babin gives the opposing offense just about the greatest gift it can have – a way to gain a big chunk of yardage whenever it wants.
Babin’s career was a complete bust until he met Jim Washburn last year in Tennessee. Washburn told him not to worry about those pesky details like stopping the run; freed up to reach his potential as half a football player, Babin became the best half-a-football-player he could be, ringing up a bunch of sacks and doing pretty much nothing else."
But I guess on running plays it (or the 40-50% a game against the Eagles’ defense) it doesn’t matter what Babin does because he only has to get to the QB.
so i see us drafting another saftey this yr in the second round...
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 2:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
yea, Im gonna be watching the bowl games
To see how Mark Barron, TJ McDonald, Ray Ray Armstong, and Makelle Martin perform
personally, I wanna draft absolute ANIMALS on defense, ones that hit u!!
MLB – Teo, Burfict, or Hightower
OLB – Brown or Lavonte David
Safety – Mark Barron or TJ McDonald
just wanna completely knock out offenses next year
Ever heard of Ronnell Lewis? He’s the one you want if you want to crush people.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
You’re probably right about him being better suited for a 3-4 defense right now but he is a total freak athletically and I think that if you developed him right he could be a very good 4-3 SLB.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
sounds familar
didnt we have the same hopes with Chris Gocong?
And Chris Gocong has been pretty good ever since he left Philadelphia. And he was a good player here in Philadelphia too, am I the only one who remembers how good of a run defender that guy was? He was like a battering ram at SLB, the dude set the edge and strung plays out wide like no other.
And I tend to think that Ronnell Lewis is more agile than Gocong.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
i can see ronnell becoming a player in the league
My mojo so dope. BITCH!
"People always call me up and ask me: "Why do you think you can fly?"
"Because I'm an Eagle:)." Randall Cunningham
ot but im officially on the monte teo bandwagon
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
anyone see anyway we can get another 1st rounder with a trade?
Cause if we can get a QB early and possibly a monster MLB in Teo in the 1st round…that’d be ideal and set us up nicely for our 2 2nd rounders (WR, OLINE, S, or OLB)
This kind of widespread failure is why I hate hearing
“it’s not the coaches fault – they’re not the ones on the field missing tackles.”
If it’s such a systematic failure, I don’t know how the coaches aren’t at fault at all. Players have some responsibility no doubt, but so do the coaches. And whoever scouted and assembled such a group of terrible tacklers, too.
I hate the fact that we’re known as a “speed defense”. More like a “soft defense”. There’s hardly any defenders on this team that scare much opposing offenses in the sense that if you throw over the middle, you have to pay for it with a big hit (IE: Dawkins).
I hate this defense
Follow @PhillyFollower
Writer at Iggles Nest
#FireAndyReid*
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Dec 3, 2011 2:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Please stop with the Te’o love. Thanks.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
who u hoping to draft? (at least right now)
Grant it…its all gonna change, after Conference Championship games, Bowl games, FA, Combine, etc.
Who do I hope to draft?
In the first 3 rounds I hope that we come away with some of these players:
Robert Griffin III, LaMichael James, Chris Polk, Trent Richardson, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, Joe Adams, Coby Fleener, Andrew Datko, David DeCastro, Vinny Curry, Devin Taylor, Whitney Mercilus, Jarvis Jones, Josh Chapman, Devon Still, Zach Brown, Lavonte David, Audie Cole, Mychal Kencricks, Sean Spence, Luke Kuechly, Morris Claiborne, Dre Kirkpatrick, Janoris Jenkins, Brandon Boykin, Mark Barron, Harrison Smith and Bacarri Rambo.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
why the hell would we want rbs???
And I want no part of the 232lb kuechly and his lack of athletic ability and range, per scouts inc. Give me the 6’3 255lb monster with elite speed.
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 3:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Scouts Inc is garbage and you would know that if you paid attention. Question, how well have Jevan Snead, Andre Woodson, Brian Brohm and Blaine Gabbert performed in the NFL? While you figure out the answer, consider that Scouts Inc said all of them were franchise passers. They also said Whitney Mercilus was a 300-something pound 3-4 DE when in reality he is a 6’5" and 260 pound 4-3 defensive end that is not even remotely similar to what McShay was talking about. Oh and he said Fili Moala was a top 5 pick late into the college season and still had him as a first round pick leading up to the draft, how has he turned out?
Scouts Inc is a sham buddy.
Go watch Kuechly, you’ll be surprised at just how athletic he is. He has no problems getting to the perimeter and and he is very good in coverage. And his mental prowess just speeds everything up too, so in addition to being pretty athletic his brains allow him to process information fast too. The guy is good, really good.
And I hope you’re not talking about Burfict, he is trash.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
scouts inc has also been right about alot of players
They also have kuechly as their best lb….I don’t want a small MLB who will be eaten up by NFL lineman. Who has bc ever played who has an oline close to an NFL one in size? My point being our defense is small…why would we draft another small MLB with great instincts….Casey Matthews was said to have the best instincts coming out last yr…we need size.
Also I never said burfict although id take him over kuechly for MLB.
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
btw djaxfan check your attitude
I know you are in full born defense mode but chill out.
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
with all do respect to ur WRs
Would rather draft Marvin McNutt at the top of the 3rd round…great talent and a steal at that pick, great vertically, excellent route running, and amazing hands
I forgot to mention Dwight Jones. And you’re right that Marvin McNutt has been a good college player for the reasons you mentioned but I wonder about his athletic ability and how that translates to the NFL, he isn’t a very explosive or quick guy in any aspect.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
Jerry Rice was not explosive or quick either. If he has the size and knows how to use it, he won’t need to be explosive or quick.
This example is tired, not everyone is Jerry Rice so can we just realize that Jerry Rice is the exception and not the rule? And Jerry Rice was plenty fast and explosive, he just didn’t run a good 40 yard dash because you know there is a difference between being slow and running a bad 40 yard dash.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
Explosive and quick is a requirement for a good receiver, you have to be able to get separation.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
value pick...would spend one of our 4th on DeVier Posey, WR, Ohio State
Only played 2 games and got half the yards OSU’s leading WR got throughout the season; Braxton Miller was a true Freshman slinging the ball (Terrelle Pryor 2.0) and his arm has yet to develop.
Posey, has the speed to burn corners…would happily use 1 of our 4th round picks on him for WR.
Pair him with a Mohamad Sanu, and forget about DJAX. those 2, and JMAC for years to come!
I can see him on the weakside or maybe as a middle linebacker in a Tampa 2 defense. He is small but he can play.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
He is a heck of a player. I would just be worried that his size would hurt him as a LB and I do not know if he could switch to a safety position.
awfully smalll? Dude...Brian Rolle weighs just as much as him and is 3 inches smaller
He’ll grow some more once he gets to the pros. Great Instinct, quick and always around the ball making a tackle.
LaMichael James? No thanks. I want Kuelchy. That’s seriously the only player I want.
The Jruth shall be told.
Why not? Lamichael James as a complimentary back to LeSean McCoy? That would be nice. James isn’t a bell cow type back but he is a match-up player who you can put in at RB, split him out wide and use him on returns. He has great speed, he runs harder than you think and his vision is unparalleled. He’s a real nice player.
The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."
If you think my DTO love is great
Wait til we get Manti :D <3333333333333
Formerly number5
RIP JJ
"But for you to open your big fucking mouth and call Shady "overrated" makes me want to take my big cock and shut you up." - Brotherman initiates EB’s prison stay/Brotherman on getting his dick wet.
by HawaiianGreen on Dec 3, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
alright uh is being blown out but
Their wr j Johnson is a really good player. Has two tds and made really tough catches. Ran over defenders on both tds.
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 3:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
In all my years of watching, I don’t remember an Eagles defense being called soft or averse to tackling, like this year’s defense, that is the most embarrassing part of this year.
Pop Quiz
Allen Iverson : Practice :: (a) Jason Avant : Home Games (b) DeSean Jackson : Getting Hit (c) Eagles Defense : Tackling (d) Marty : Hand-offs (e) Andy Reid : Reality
Not a game, not a game, but practice ! - A.I.
becauae we went fast and "intelligent"
Instead of big and mean
by VRFC8 on Dec 3, 2011 6:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
as much as i want a lb in the first round…. no lbs are really studs, top 10 worthy guys. and rg3 would be really nice “project” for andy and co. assuming they are around…. if andy isnt around then i guess you trade down for linebacker
I hate new york.
by XxActionJacksonxX on Dec 3, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions
Castillo didn't fulfill his promise
I liked Juan as OL coach and wanted him to succeed as DC.. but this is really distubing. I definitely remember when they asked him how he would do things differently than Sean M. he said he would get back to fundamentals.. he would have the defense focus on tackling and getting back to basics. Did not happen. When a guy gets a job based on a promise to get something done – if he doesn’t do it, you have to look at firing him. Nice guy or not.
GO TIGERS!
WELCOME TO PHILADELPHIA, LES MILES! I want to see the Mad Hatter on the sidelines in Eagles green next year. I don’t care what it takes, get it done Lurie.
Proposition...
We draft LSU’s entire Defense and hire their DC
"I love my Ducks (wait 'til you see my O)"
Wait, Wait, WAIT!!!
So your telling me that were not good at football?
"Never give in, never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
by ando1213 on Dec 3, 2011 9:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Oh man.......
its gonna be a longggg time till draft day.
It's never easy being an Eagle fan........but I'll be damned if I ever stop.
the day we only score 3 points with this offense, is the day ill give everyone a dollar haha
by bleedgreen89 on Sep 16, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions

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