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Case for Andy Reid's Firing

Most of the "Fire Andy, Keep Andy" debates have already taken place after the Seahawks loss but I wanted to wait until the Eagles were mathematically eliminated from playoff contention before writing my thoughts. Since that loss, the Eagles followed up with three straight convincing victories. Naturally, after those wins some people felt that maybe this team just took a while to gel and Reid earned another year as head coach. I’m not one of those people. However you want to spin it, this season has been a disaster. Make no mistake about that. Eagles are 7-8. Seven and frickin’ eight. The team that we the fans, the media, and Vegas thought would be playing in the Superbowl could not even make the playoffs. If the NFC East wasn’t so bad this year, it would’ve been a lot worse. Now, I want to state that I don’t think he will be fired after the season and that I believe he will be back for at least another year. He will be brought back for various reasons but for me, the reasons to fire him are greater than the ones to retain him.

I want to start by saying I genuinely do love Andy Reid. I think he’s a "heckuva" football coach and person. He turned this franchise around into a powerhouse for most of the past decade. He grew as a coach(and not just around the waistline) as I grew into my teenage years. I started watching the Eagles at about 8 or 9 years old in Ray Rhodes’ final season here (3-13). I remember that season clearly because the Eagles had three quarterbacks starting throughout the year. Bobby Hoying was the worst QB I’ve ever seen play, next to Mark Sanchez(half-joking). The defense however, had some damn good players and played well. I didn’t fully understand the game then and didn’t go through years of mediocrity like some of you have but I still knew what a truly terrible team looked like. Out went Rhodes, in came Reid and I haven't seen a terrible Eagles team since.

Star-divide

My lowest point as an Eagles fan however, did not occur during that 3-13 season or the 5-11 season in Reid’s first year or the injury filled 6-10 season in ’05 that included the T.O. debacle. It was after the Seahawks loss this year when I saw an underachieving Eagles team oozing with talent that was mentally lost, soft, and sloppy with a poor attitude getting blown out by a 4-7 team. That’s when it seemed that Andy lost the team and the players were not responding to him. Well, now it looks like that he didn’t lose the team since they won the next three games handily. He might not have lost the team but he sure did lose the season. This is now the third year in a row the Eagles have not won a playoff game. To be exact, it’s been 2 years, 11 months, and 18 days or 1082 days since the Eagles last playoff win against the Giants. I don’t know about you but that seems like ages ago. You might say I’m spoiled by the amount of winning Reid teams have done. No, I just hold the Eagles to a higher standard because of the success. We know Reid had tremendous success in the first half of his tenure. His second half? Not so much.

Coaching Record Not So Fabulous After Year Six

Year Regular Season Record Post Season Record Result
1999 5--11 N/A N/A
2000 11--5 1--1 Lost in NFC Divisional Game
2001 11--5 2--1 Lost in NFC Championship Game
2002 12--4 1--1 Lost in NFC Championship Game
2003 12--4 1--1 Lost in NFC Championship Game
2004 13--3 2--1 Lost in Superbowl Game
2005 6--10 N/A N/A
2006 10--6 1--1 Lost in NFC Divisional Game
2007 8--8 N/A N/A
2008 9--6--1 2--1 Lost in NFC Championship Game
2009 11--5 0--1 Lost in NFC Wild Card Game
2010 10--6 0--1 Lost in NFC Wild Card Game
2011 7-8(Currently) N/A N/A
Total 125-81-1 (.606) 10--9 0 Superbowls

His first six seasons as head coach, Andy had an outstanding 64-32(.667) regular season record that included 5 playoff appearances going 7-5(1 Divisional, 3 NFC Championships, and 1 Superbowl ). Since then, he’s an unimpressive 61-49-1(.554) with a 3-4 playoff record. First six years = 7 PO wins. Next seven years = 3 PO wins. So, if you’ve been worried about being average after Reid, don’t be, because that’s what the Eagles have been for the most part of the last 7 years. One has to wonder if Reid was so successful early on because he had Jim Johnson running the defense. From 2000-2008, Johnson's units ranked second in the NFL in sacks (390), 3rd down efficiency (34.0%) and red zone touchdown percentage (43.9%), and fourth in fewest points allowed (17.7 per game). With defenses that good, you’re bound to win a lot of games. Since JJ’s death(RIP), Eagle defenses have ranked 19th in 2009(21.8 ppg), 21st in 2010(23.4 ppg) and 13th in 2011(21.2 ppg). That’s 4.4 points per game higher than JJ’s career average. With JJ = 10 PO wins. Without JJ = 0 PO wins.

Now, of course Reid gets most of the credit for hiring JJ in the first place as well as other great assistant coaches like Harbaugh, Spagnuolo, Frazier, Childress and Rivera. Then we also had the likes of Sean Mcdermott, Rory Segrest, Bill Shuey and Co. Another correlation there between assistant coaches and success. Did Reid’s assistants have more to do with the Eagles’ success than Reid himself? Something to think about.

Juan Castillo as Defensive Coordinator Failure

This is a post I wrote back when Castillo was hired as DC. I researched all 32 defensive coordinators to find out if any of them was an offensive coach prior to being on the defensive side. None and now we know why. This is another article I wrote prior to the season speculating that Castillo might run a Cover 2 zone defense. I showed how the zone defense works and what type of players you need for it. Apparently, Castillo and the front office didn’t read my article. I can honestly say that this hiring or promotion cost the Eagles the season. Players that didn’t fit the scheme were put on the field, play calling was bad, defense didn’t look prepared at times, tackling was dismal and execution was very poor. Prior to this 3 game streak, the defense was giving up an average of 23 ppg with opponents scoring a TD over 65% of the time in the redzone. That number was over 80% after the first 5 weeks. There were 7 games where the opponent scored 24+ points. This is 100% all on Reid. No doubt this was fully his decision and hire. Castillo repeatedly calls Reid his "boss" and said he doesn’t want to let Reid down. Howard Mudd and Jim Washburn were fantastic hires but Reid shit the bed when it came to the leader of the defense.

Defensive Drafting

2011
Round Name Position
2 Jaiquawn Jarrett Safety
3 Curtis Marsh Cornerback
4 Casey Matthews Linebacker
6 Brian Rolle Linebacker
7 Greg Lloyd Linebacker
2010
Round Name Position
1 Brandon Graham Defensive End
2 Nate Allen Safety
3 Daniel Te'o-Nesheim Defensive End
4 Trevard Lindley Cornerback
4 Keenan Clayton Oklahoma
5 Ricky Sapp Defensive End
7 Jamar Chaney Linebacker
7 Kurt Coleman Safety
2009
Round Name Position
5 Victor "Macho" Harris Safety
7 Moises Fokou Linebacker
2008
Round Name Position
2 Trevor Laws Defensive Tackle
3 Bryan Smith Defensive End
4 Quintin Demps Safety
4 Jack Ikegwuonu Cornerback
6 Andy Studebaker Linebacker
2007
Round Name Position
2 Victor Abiamiri Defensive End
3 Stewart Bradley Linebacker
5 C.J. Gaddis Safety
6 Rashad Barksdale Cornerback

Now, I know drafting decisions are not completely on the head coach but as Executive VP of Football Operations as well, Andy Reid along with the General Manager (Heckert and Roseman) make the final call. Those are all the defensive players drafted within the past five years. 11 are still with the team. Brian Rolle is the only above average starter on the team and he’s a 6th round pick rookie. 24 picks, 1 good player. Stu was excellent but only for that one year. Chaney, Coleman, and Allen are starters but are no better than average. Graham unfortunately tore his ACL but he didn’t have a great rookie season either. He had a good amount of pressure but not many impact plays. If you think Babin’s run defense is bad, Graham’s was much worse. Hence, the benching for Parker. The piss poor defensive drafting along with a rookie coordinator is what forced the front office to obtain four pro-bowl caliber players in DRC, Babin, Nnamdi, and Jenkins all in one year. Linebackers as always, the Eagles can do without. Bunch of 4th-7th rounders will suffice. How many games did the lack of good linebackers and safeties cost them? Quite a few. Now almost all our good defensive players are either approaching 30 or already 30+ years old and most of the younger ones are average at best. Not a great situation.

The Odds Are Against Reid

There have been 28 superbowl winning coaches. Out of the 28, 25 have won their first Superbowl by year 7. Dick Vermeil(8th), Tom Landry(12th), and Bill Cowher(14th) are the only ones to win one after year 7. NFL Draft Bible did a study on the average number of years it takes a coach to win a superbowl, here are their charts and explanation.

Draftbible_1_medium

The actual number on ‘average’ is a little bit clouded looking back in the 1960’s because both Green Bay Packers Vince Lombardi and Kansas City Chiefs Hank Stram for example had combined for ten years of experience before the Super Bowl was actually created. Those two coach’s had already won championships in the NFL/AFL respectably almost immediately following their hiring’s in Green Bay and Kansas City.

One thing we do know is that like many coach’s as we will find out have success rather early in their careers and like both of these Hall of Fame coach’s it took them three years to win their first title although they were not called Super Bowls. Four and a half decades have past, yet the number is astonishingly similar over each decade and the amount of time to usually take’s for head coach’s to win it all.

The law of averages settles right at year four the time it takes on average for coach’s to reach and win the Super Bowl. Early success is hammered home even more in the chart below where 18 of the 28 winning head coach’s reached the coaching pinnacle with in four seasons or better in their quest to win the Super Bowl.

Draftbible2_medium

Also it’s note worthy due to the hype of the Philadelphia Eagles with all of the current free agent signings that only five other Super Bowl coach’s have lost their first Super Bowl and gone on to win one. That short list of names includes Hank Stram, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Dick Vermeil and Bill Cowher, although Vermeil lost with the Eagles and won it with the St. Louis Rams. Maybe there is something in the water in the state of Pennsylvania and Reid drinks from the same fountain as Cowher did back in 2005 season.

There must be something about a coach being with a team for very long that makes it harder for teams to win the Superbowl. Either their message gets stale, or the team needs some new blood or personality to energize them, whatever. When coaches that have won a Superbowl get fired later(Shanahan, Billick, Gruden etc), is it because they suddenly forgot how to coach? No. It could be because they haven’t adapted to the game or made poor personnel decisions or their players won games for them etc. There is a time when it just has been too long and a change is needed. A breath of fresh air and a new voice. The evidence is right on those charts. Reid would be in his 14th year next season. In the 45 year history of the Superbowl era, only 1 coach has done it in his 14th year or later. Can it happen again? I don’t know but I would not touch that bet. As I’ve stated before, the past 7 years, the Eagles have been mostly average. In today’s game, assistant coaches and college coaches are becoming head coaches and putting out playoff and superbowl teams. You don’t need an established coach to put out a good team.

Last three superbowl winning coaches are Mike McCarthy, Sean Payton, and Mike Tomlin. McCarthy was an assistant for 12 years in the NFL before becoming head coach in 2006. He won his first superbowl 4 years later and currently has a 67-35 career record. Payton was an assistant for 8 years before becoming head coach in 2006. He won his first superbowl three years later and has a career 65-36 record. Tomlin was an assistant for 5 years before taking over for Cowher in 2007. He won his first superbowl in year 2 and has a career 59-27 record. Jim Harbaugh, a former college coach in his first year head coaching in the NFL, has his team at 12-3 on track for a 1st round bye. Just because Reid had tremendous success 7-10 years ago does not mean he should continue to keep his job.

I’m not even going to bring up old, rehashed issues with Reid like his inability to manage the clock, call timeouts promptly, challenge when necessary, his random poor game planning/play calling, lack of superstar player usage, inability to adjust at halftime and absolutely uninformative, script-like press conferences. Oops, I just did. Reid is an offensive mastermind and a good coach. Players love him and coaches come to coach with him. That still doesn’t change the fact that this team hasn’t done squat the past three seasons. Doesn’t change the fact that ever since the Superbowl team, his record hasn’t been that great. Doesn’t change the fact that he hired Castillo and wasted an entire season with players in their late prime. Doesn’t change the fact that the odds are very very much against him in regards to winning a superbowl here and anywhere else. I appreciate everything he’s done here but ahem, the time’s yours….to go.

Poll
Should Andy Reid be fired after the season?
Yes and he will be.
22 votes
Yes but he won't be.
281 votes
No. He should get at least another year.
300 votes
On the fence.
57 votes

660 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 434 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Great piece

Ravens fan here, but I got a bunch of buddies from Lower Marion, so when our interests don’t collide, i enjoy seeing the Eagles do well. This year must have blown ass for you guys.

Personally, I think Reid should be fired but everything I keep hearing is that he won’t be… But if he is, I’ll gladly take Mornhinweg.

I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR

by jackmca on Dec 28, 2011 8:44 AM EST reply actions  

you can have him, he is our playcaller. Absolutely horrible.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree completely with you

I see the point Route is trying to make by bringing up the years it takes a coach to win a Super Bowl. But your point is just as valid. There haven’t been that many coaches that have been good enough to coach for 14 years. So the numbers will always be skewed to the first seven years, because probably 98% of coaches don’t last longer than seven years.

Castillo might be one of the biggest mistakes Andy has ever made, but that’s not enough for me to fire him. Route’s biggest point at the top of the post is about how Andy won 10 playoff games with JJ at DC and 0 without him. So the point is, give Andy a legit DC and he can have huge success.

So with that being said, I think he should be given one more year. So many factors suggest that it makes sense. He’ll be in the last year of his contract. Vick’s contract is structured so that after 2012 his cap hit is minimal if they got rid of him. He’ll also have a ton of studs basically in their prime or nearing the end of their prime in Cole, Nnamdi, Peters, Samuel (if he stays), Jenkins, Babin, Vick, Patterson, etc. Bring in Steve Spagnuolo and give Andy one more year. If he fails, then you let him go respectfully (when his contract expires) and you have Spags in place to be his successor. Or you can bring in someone completely different and fresh.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Reid's ill-deserved contract is for TWO more years.

If he doesn’t get fired, he’s here until at least the end of 2013.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/andy_reid_gets_contract_extension

So he needs to be fired.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh wow

I’ve been saying he had one more year left this whole season. I was way off.

That actually makes me believe Lurie and Banner would be more inclined to keep him at least one more year considering coaches contracts are guaranteed. Or at least most of the contracts I’ve seen anyway. If they fire him, they have to pay him for the next two years.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I am not sure about this "defense" at all.

“Is the game changing and evolving as rapidly now as it was 30 years ago?”

Here are the last 11 SB winners

Packers—McCarthy—5th year with Packers—1st HC job
Saints—Payton—4th year with Saints—1st HC job
Steelers—Tomlin—2nd year with Steelers—1st HC job
Giants—Coughlin—4th year with Giants—12th year as an NFL HC
Colts—Dungy—5th year with Colts—11th year as an NFL HC
Steelers—Cowher—14th year
Patriots—Belichick
Patriots—Belichick
Bucs—Gruden—1st year with Bucs—5th year as an NFL head coach
Patriots—Belichick—7th year (2nd year with Pats)
Ravens—Billick—won in 2nd year

This does not support your idea that keeping Reid around for his 14th season and beyond is a Super Bowl winning strategy.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Once again, how many coaches even make it to 14 years with a team? The only one I can think of off the top of my head, other than Reid, is Cowher, and he won.

by Rujasu on Dec 28, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Two things.

1. Bill Cowher finally won because of Ben Roethlisberger. He always had above-average (and when Dick LeBeau finally got hired – outstanding) defenses, but he was missing a great quarterback. Michael Vick is an exciting player, but he is NOT a great quarterback in the traditional, Super-Bowl-winning sense. Unfortunately.

2. THE EXCEPTION IS NOT THE RULE. Aye caramba.

by Eagle Fly Free on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

(facepalm)

That. Is. Not. The. Point.

Cowher is literally the only coach tom make it to a 14th season during the 11-year span that EB mentioned. There is literally no one else to compare them to during this period. So if you say that Cowher is the only one to make the Super Bowl during that time, then that also means that every coach who lasted that long during that time made the Super Bowl, 100% of them. There’s no one else to compare to during that period.

by Rujasu on Dec 28, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Reid must go, Route36.

This is a great piece and should be required reading for all the apologists. Reid’s message is stale, the talent he brings in through the draft is lousy at best and his choices of assistant coaches recently amounts to professional malpractice. The fat man must go to save our team.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 8:56 AM EST reply actions  

you're such a baby

and you don’t ever make any relevant points, you just whine about “the fat man.”

by smeagle on Dec 28, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

At least he has a sense of humor. That’s more than we can say about the rest of the Reid haters.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

And you just whine about him whining, so that doesn’t make you any better, now does it?


Writer at Iggles Nest
#HireSpags

by PhiladelphiaEagles on Dec 28, 2011 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Shut the fuck up.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

And one more thing.

It’s pretty relevant that he’s fat. KByars and I discussed the Obese Head Coach theory with the Pillsbury Metric addendum a while back. Only 4 fat head coaches have ever won Super Bowls.

Mike McCarthy, John Madden, Weeb Ewbank and Hank Stram—the only fat men to ever win Super Bowls. Look it up.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not fucking with anybody.

I am afraid for Andy’s health and I think he should retire to get help.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

/CloggedArtery’d

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

There are also studies linking cognitive decline to a high fat diet...

…Andy Reid certainly eats high fat foods. And he exhibits symptoms consistent with dementia.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

In regards to memory, it’s not just the diet. Being obese is itself apparently a cause of diminished memory.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

This is an excuse for Reid in a way.

He has difficulty remembering stuff like the rules of the game, situational strategies and how much time is required to perform certain football related tasks (running plays at the end of the half, kicking FG’s, etc). But he really needs to retire to get some help.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He needs help, and we want to see him get it. We should spin the “Fire Reid” campaign into the “Help Andy Get Well” campaign.
/propaganda’d

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Somebody make a FanPost for this. Please. Do it.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Playoff victory

Just a point of clarification, but the last playoff victory was against the Giants in the divisional round. Not the Vikings.

by outsyderz34 on Dec 28, 2011 9:18 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Agreed

I’m with you Jason. i’ve been going back and forth on this for a few weeks, but AR needs to go. to me it has nothing to do with the amount of time spent with the team, its the fact that the eagles seem to be plagued by the same issues, year after year. The unwillingness to run the football consistently, the poor clock management, the ignorance towards the LB position in general, and poor drafting on D in general…sure Andy has done some great things in philly but we currently have the worst LB corps in the NFL by a long shot, and two of the COWBOYS three best LBs were taken in draft slots traded to them by the eagles (spencer and lee). dont even get me started on the brandon graham/earl thomas/jason pierre-paul thing, that decision has wrecked our defense when Dawkins’ replacement was sitting right there (Earl thomas, oh and he made the pro bowl yesterday)…too many recent blunders, same mistakes over and over.

NOW HIRING- NFL HEAD COACH

by mpd2005 on Dec 28, 2011 9:19 AM EST reply actions  

To me...

…taking Brandon Graham over Earl Thomas is on it’s own merit a fireable offense.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

yea

that was/continues to be brutal. nate allen gets trucked by a different guy every week while earl thomas is in the pro bowl. BG sits on the bench (and we spend FA $$ on DEs) while JPP blocks FGs to win games.

and we should keep Andy because???? oh yea, we had a great D in 2002…

NOW HIRING- NFL HEAD COACH

by mpd2005 on Dec 28, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh well, at least the Eagles didn’t trade up to pick Eric Berry. That guy gave the Chiefs nothing this year.

Oh boy, is this great!

by MayIhave10,000marblesplease? on Dec 28, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll never defend taking Graham over Thomas...that was straight stoopid

But many peeps on this blog were falling all over themselves to laugh at the Giants for taking JPP. Ripping on him as a workout phenom who would never figure out how to play and how he was clearly going to be a bust.

The Giants draft height/weight/speed guys and we draft situational specialists. To me, that’s Reid’s greatest draft flaw: he spends way too many picks on guys who, at best, are one- or two-down/sub-package players

by DLawrence55 on Dec 28, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

JPP

should be a reminder to never make fun of a team for drafting a guy. ever.

by Stuk on Dec 28, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless

he’s a 27 year old offensive guard with only four years of football experience.

(half kidding)

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

even the Giants fan’s hated the pick

Its easy to criticize the Graham selection after the fact, but at the time JPP was drafted, he was a GIGANTIC bust risk.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

This garbage

about not running the football consistently needs to stop. Do you think the Packers run the football consistently? Or the Saints? Or the Patriots? Or the Lions? Or the Cowboys?

All of the top offensive teams are pass-heavy. Sure there were certain situations where they should’ve run the ball when hindsight is 20/20. But this isn’t the year to be complaining about not running the ball. Shady broke franchise rushing records. And Eagles were tops in rushing yards in the league. Not to mention they’re 3rd in total offense.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

shady is the best player on the team!!!!

none of those teams you mentioned can say that about their RB. and we all know the #1 running game is because of vick, but most of his yardage comes on PASS PLAY CALLS. go look at games the eagles have won and lost during reid’s entire tenure and you’ll see that the higher the run , the more likely the eagles win. its always been the case, and it was never more apparent than in the niners game (an inexcusable loss) where Andy threw the ball 80 of the time with a 23-3 lead.

and yes, the saints run the ball very consistently, and have a multi-headed attack. granted, the packers do not have a great running game, but Aaron rodgers did not beat us in the playoffs last year, james starks did. good teams know how to run it when necessary.

NOW HIRING- NFL HEAD COACH

by mpd2005 on Dec 28, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The difference between us

and the Packers and Saints is that Rodgers and Brees are head and shoulders better than Vick. Teams have to focus on the pass ten times more than they do against us. Rodgers and Brees make up for their team’s lack of a running game. They attempt the run to keep teams honest, but they don’t do it that often. I can’t put any numbers on this because idk for sure what the run-pass ratios are for each team. But we all know that all of the top offenses are pass-heavy teams. Us included. If you’re complaining about being the 3rd best offense in the league, then you might want to check your expectations.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

they are better than us because their defenses get turnovers… i feel blessed to get one pick/fumble a game…. also our offense is as good as theirs if we kept ball

I hate new york.

by XxActionJacksonxX on Dec 28, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The Packers ran it consistently against us

Starks ripped us a new one. If they couldn’t run it, we may have been able to beat them last year

by DLawrence55 on Dec 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

We consistently ran it

against the Cowboys in the first matchup. Shady had close to 30 carries in that game. Same thing with the first Giants game that we lost. We ran it consistently, but still lost.

Don’t give me one game and call it a trend.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you that

But I look at the Packers or Saints on 3rd and 3 and I expect them to be able to run for it. I see the Eagles in that same situation, I expect them to fail (unless they pass, then it’s pretty much 50/50).

by DLawrence55 on Dec 28, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

That's because

we’re so used to that from year’s past. But the truth is, we’ve actually become a little less pass-heavy over the last couple years. And we’ve broken offensive franchise records in four consecutive years. People really need to stop with the run stuff. It’s just not true anymore. And the only thing we can complain about with the offense is turnovers. And maybe the red zone offense could improve. But this offense can move the ball as good as the best of them.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

This season...

The Eagles are ranked 2nd in the NFL on successful rushes on 3rd or 4th and short (2 yards or shorter) when they run to the left and 4th when they run to the right. Better than the Packers (4th and 17th) and the Saints (25th and 29th)

by deg0ey on Dec 28, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m with you Jason Sumith.

Give credit where credit is due.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at McCarthy, Tomlin, and Payton. What do they all have in common? Great quarterbacks. And opportunistic defenses. Maybe the long-term coaches “getting stale” is actually a result of a coach and a great quarterback partnering up to have success for a long period of time, and then as the QB gets old, and skills diminish, the success dwindles.

How many head coaches have put together a string of superbowl runs, then continued it after their QB couldn’t play anymore? If they don’t find a new great QB, the run ends.

Andy Reid recognized that McNabb wasn’t getting it done anymore, and threw McNabb overboard. He’s flailed around with Kolb, then ditched him. Now we have Vick, and if it looks like Vick ain’t getting it done, he’s gonna get dropped.

Whoever the coach is, he has to find a QB. That’s what this league is. I think this team’s best chances for a Superbowl are to find that QB (maybe Vick?), coach him up (Andy and Marty can do that) and then build an opportunistic (if not dominant) defense.

For everyone who thinks that Mike McCarthy’s grow on trees, I’ll show you seven Steve Spagnuolo’s who look like the next hot head coach, who can’t get it done.

Oh boy, is this great!

by MayIhave10,000marblesplease? on Dec 28, 2011 9:25 AM EST reply actions  

No matter how good your DC is...

Andy will still draft poorly on D, probably wont pick any LBs before the 4th round, will refuse to run the ball, and you’ll never have a timeout at the end of the first or second half.

For everyone who thinks Aaron Rodgers grow on trees, I’ll show you a kevin kolb who looks like the next big thing but cant get it done…Vick isnt going anywhere until at least 2013 (when guaranteed $$ would run off), and this season was never on Vick anyway. Did you see Maclin drop the ball against ATL? How about Avant’s fumble against the Bills? Maybe Maclin’s fumble against the Niners? Or DJax drops and punt fumble against the Bears? Or the 5-6 backbreaking mistakes from steve smith (falling, drops, fumbles)?

QB is not the problem for the eagles. Boneheaded mistake from receivers who think they are better than they are and poor defense is…

NOW HIRING- NFL HEAD COACH

by mpd2005 on Dec 28, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I see it a bit differently

Coaches are always trying to scheme to make their offense and defense more successful. Whenever a new wrinkle shows up and appears successful, you can get three coach reactions – adopting it, trying to adapt it to their own personnel, or trying to figure out a way to beat it. Maybe what happens with the “getting stale” is that whatever worked for the successful coach stops working because other teams have figured out a way to stop / beat it. A lot of coaches can’t figure out a way to rebound or retool after their best trick has been figured out. Others maybe can, but need to get players adjusted to a new scheme, change personnel, develop new guys, etc. and that takes time – sometimes more than front offices and fans are willing to wait. And sometimes it just plain doesn’t work either. (old trick worked, old trick got stopped, new trick doesn’t work)

French fries are really Belgian, sausages and bagels have the same amount of protein, two countries' names mean "turkey", and Santa Claus was invented by the Coca-Cola company. Is life weird or what?

Debe ser verde y volante - Πράσινο και να πετάει - It's gotta be green and it's gotta fly!

by Rabbit T on Dec 28, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Please repost this in two years

This year comes down to being a rebuilding year.

Reid had great success with Donovan (very good) and Jim Johnson (very great). Replacing McNabb and JJ was never going to be easy. But Castillo’s defense finished strong, and Vick is a decent place-holder until Reid finds a new QB.

I get it. It’s very fun to panic, and you do a great job of it. But that’s an awful basis from which to make big decisions.

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 9:33 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Rebuilding was last year. This year was all in.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

"All-in" and "dream team" are catch-phrases used by only the uninitiated.

“If they were all in, they wouldn’t be moving their best guard to tackle and starting a rookie and a waiver-wire pickup on the offensive line.

“If they were all in, they wouldn’t be starting what might very well be the youngest linebacking corps in their history.

“If they were all in, they wouldn’t be risking a DeSean Jackson explosion/implosion by not yet renegotiating his contract.

“If they were all in, they wouldn’t be going into the season with a rookie kicker and a rookie punter.

“If they were all in, they wouldn’t be opening the year with a defensive coordinator who has never called a front or a coverage in a regular-season NFL game.

“If the Eagles were all in – and I mean really all in, completely and totally focused on the short term, and on this year in particular – they wouldn’t have traded away backup quarterback Kevin Kolb . . . "

And I would add, if the Eagles were all in they would be missing draft picks in the 2012 draft, rather than have an EXTRA 2nd round pick.

“All-in” and “dream team” are catch-phrases only used by the uninitiated.

(for credit where credit is due:
/20111228_Rich_Hofmann__Why_Andy_should_get_one_more_chance.html
)

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You spend large amounts of money on a 3rd CB and backup QB in rebuilding years?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

$5,000,000 on a back-up QB, yaknow, for building purposes.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Motherfucker better be a damn good mason, b/c he couldn’t QB for shit.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

For "building purposes?"

He better be the cast and crew of “This Old House” for $5 million.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

DRC is still on his rookie contract, signed for $3M/year. That’s cheap. Extremely cheap for a player of his caliber. Plus, once they trade Asante, DRC will be the 2nd CB (and a better complimenting CB for Asomugha).

And backup QBs are generally not cheap. There’s no denying VY has been a flop, but he had upside (unlike the cheap QBs with zero upside that were available for less)

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

So, rebuilding teams spend large sums of money on veteran players to replace on all-pro starter and back-up another. That sounds uninitiated.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

Banner’s OWN MOTHERFUCKING WORDS—

“That’s a scary term, but I think we’ve put together a team that somebody wrote the words “The Eagles are all in” – that’s how we look at it. We’re doing anything and everything we can. We’re being aggressive about it and the expectations are high. I’m glad the players are excited as well about what they see being put together and their own optimism and excitement about seeing themselves surrounded by other high talent, and as importantly, people that really, really want to be here and really, really want to win. They’re not afraid of a goal as high as we must win the Super Bowl to feel satisfied with the season."

Source: http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Eagles-President-Joe-Banner/42c488b3-3b6a-4fd7-bf23-82e77273eaaa

/relevant point’d

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

BOOM ROASTED!

I was too lazy to look it up. Thanks EB!

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The two of us will get Reid to quit.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Out of interest...

If you were to get your wish and Reid ended up leaving at the end of the season, who would you bring in to replace him that is both available and better? I can’t think of anybody, but you must have someone else in mind or you wouldn’t be so keen to fire him.

by deg0ey on Dec 28, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody that is mentioned will appease you so just leave. It is not the job of us fans to come up with a contingency plan, that is for the management and ownership to figure out. We can make educated guesses but we never know who will be a great head coach. All we know is that Andy Reid must go.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The contingency plan should play a big part in the decision to fire or keep Andy Reid. We have the talent to win now, I’d hate to waste it on some scrub up-and-comer. You can’t really say Andy Reid being fired is what’s best for the team if you’re not considering who is replacing him.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, it should play a big part of deciding to fire Andy Reid.

And I am considering who should replace him but nothing that I say will be an acceptable answer for you apologists so what’s the point of giving you names? There is none.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really fair to stereotype everyone who wants to see Reid stay another season or more as “Reid apologists”. Not everyone is stubborn as you. Sounds like you don’t want to name people because don’t know enough about potential replacements to make an informed opinion. Which is fine, it just makes firing Reid a harder sell.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

he wrote an entire fanpost about potential replacements which you can read anytime… and people label the people who want Reid gone “Reid Haters” so it’s not like he’s the first on this site to throw out labels.

by fhqwagads on Dec 30, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Umm...what?

I asked a legitimate question. Obviously it’s not your job to find a new coach, but you must at least think there is someone better than Reid or your entire argument falls down. If nothing else, I’d be interested to know some of your educated guesses.

I don’t see anyone currently in the NFL (that we could actually get) that would be an improvement on Reid. I don’t follow the college game at all, so it’s possible you know of someone that might be suitable.

I agree that the job of the management and ownership is to figure out who the best available coach is and to go get him, however, you appear to have dismissed out of hand the notion that he might already be on our team.

It would be ridiculous, for example, to fire Andy and bring in someone like Spags who has shown nothing to suggest that he can be a good HC. The only way firing Andy makes ANY sense is if there’s a good alternative.

Your statement that I cannot be ‘appeased’ is more than a little confusing to be honest; I don’t even know what you meant by that.

by deg0ey on Dec 28, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It seems like the rec/flag system is still broke on SBNation, but rec’d.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Your statement that I cannot be ‘appeased’ is more than a little confusing to be honest; I don’t even know what you meant by that.

I mean that no name that anyone tosses out there will make you say “Okay, he could be a legitimate successor”.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that's necessarily fair

Granted I can’t think of somebody that I would consider a ‘legitimate successor’, but I don’t claim to be an expert on this sort of thing – you could easily suggest a name that I’d never even thought/heard of.

To be honest, I was more interested in whether you’d got any ideas for what you wanted a post-Reid regime to be (any guys you particularly covet?) or if it was just a straight up dislike of Andy such that you want rid of him regardless if it’s the best move for the team.

by deg0ey on Dec 28, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Winning?

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

hehehe

Banner’s own words huh? Too bad your quote makes clear he attributes the quote to someone else and he was merely agreeing with it.

Semantics, and quotes aside, my point, and Rich Hofmann’s point, remains, which is that the Eagles did not mortgage the future for the current year. So the phrase “all in”, which means to mortgage the future for the present, does not accurately describe the Eagles’ approach this year. I eagerly await your response to that statement.

PS No shit people are referring to Banner’s interview with the quote “all in”. Do you seriously think you’re the only person that remembers that? Also, in case you’re struggling to place it, “dream team” was originally uttered by VY. Be that as it may, both quotes are crutches for the uninitiated, or, to put it another way, for idiots.

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re uninitiated as a mofo if you don’t think agreeing with a statement means you agree with it,

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Still waiting

So the phrase "all in", which means to mortgage the future for the present, does not accurately describe the Eagles’ approach this year. I eagerly await your response to that statement.

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

All in, means your nuts are on the table and you intend to take the pot. We are potless and uninitiated.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Try again.

You’re kind of ignoring my point. The Eagles didn’t mortgage the future, hence, “all in” doesn’t describe the Eagles’ moves this past off-season.

How about this. Don’t worry about who said what. Bear in mind the Eagles (1) traded an excellent backup QB, (2) did not trade any draft picks away, (3) acquired a second round draft pick, (4) started a very young LB core, (5) started a rookie RG for most of the year, (6) started a rookie punter, (7) started a rookie kicker, (8) started the season with one of the younger rosters in the league, and (9) had a DC with no previous NFL defensive experience.

With all that, looking forward to the next season, do you think the Eagles are stronger or weaker than they were a year ago? It’s pretty clear the Eagles are a helluva lot stronger.

Last chance to respond, make it a good one.

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t have to mortgage the future to be all in. Don’t act uninitiated.
All in is a clear statement that you intend to and believe that you can win it all now, meaning that this was quite obviously not a rebuilding year. The attempt to retro-actively brand it a rebuilding year is obtuse.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

nice

Definitely a fair point re: retro-actively rebranding the year. YAY!

However, every year ten teams believe they can win it, but that doesn’t mean the other nine coaches should get summarily fired.

And, more importantly, the fact that the Eagles are better off than they were before clearly shows that the Eagles were not “all-in” within the meaning of that phrase. Agreed?

PS Did someone watch Shawshank recently?

by KeithPetres on Dec 28, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That is exactly what you did, unless you do not know what re-building means. It’s also not unfair,

This year comes down to being a rebuilding year.

This isn’t a case of just one season.

For that specified definition, which is definitely not applicable, no, they were not all in.

PS No, I just have a big motherfucking vocabulary. The uninitiated often fail to recognize that.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

When the team president says that they’re “all in”, I’m pretty sure that damn well means they’re all in.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if you agree they haven’t mortgaged the future for the present?

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Where are you getting this “mortgaged the future” thing from? Who said anything about that?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going off of Keith Petres definition of “all in” -“which means to mortgage the future for the present”.

Ie. If we didn’t win the Superbowl this year, we were somehow worse off in the future.

Did all-in mean something different to you?

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, it did. It meant that the Eagles were going to get as many pieces as they can to compete for the championship this year. There were zero future implications.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t recall them making much of a splash signing veteran players in free agency.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Other than cutting that Hawaiian guy, they didn’t do much. Certainly no veteran additions of note…

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope, nothing that would indicate they were “all in”.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

They cut Victorino? Bastards.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

They did trade Carter and Richards.

Does that count?

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess my point is that the way this season was framed in the preseason shouldn’t matter. We’re still set up well for the future.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t think that failing to meet expectations that were put forth by Joe Banner, Andy Reid, Jeff Lurie and players should matter?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

That's true

And Banner, Roseman and Reid should be fired for failing to meet those expectations.

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I apologize if you said this in jest, but do you think capable GM’s and coaches grow on trees? Roseman is only in his first few years as GM and brought in a huge haul this past offseason. I’m not sure why he would get the blame.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So which is it?

Is he to be praised for bringing in a “huge haul” and going “all in?” Or is he to be blamed when his product fails to perform well?

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you think Roseman’s responsibilities are? I could be wrong in my assumptions, but the way I saw it was Reid, Banner, and Roseman decided in the offseason which free agents they’d like to pursue. Roseman should be credited (at least in part) for successfully acquiring those players.

I say it’s on the coaches if those players don’t play up to their talent level. They all had success in the past. And which free agent acquisition are you really disappointed in?

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Why Roseman shoulders at least part of the blame:

1. He is at the very least partially responsible for our lack of decent drafts.
2. His trades have been awful. Absolutely awful. We traded Brodrick Bunkley, Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong, Chris Clemons, Joe Mays and a 4th round pick for Alex Hall, Ernie Sims, Trevard Lindley, Darryl Tapp, a 2012 6th round pick and a 2013 6th round pick. Whoops.
3. The negotiations between management and DeSean are at least partially responsible for DeSean’s disgruntled attitude. Money that was essentially lit on fire (Vince Young, Steve Smith) could’ve went towards DeSean and made him the 10th highest paid receiver in the NFL.
4. He at least has a role in the organizational miscalculations that have hindered the Eagles. I.e. Juan Castillo, the linebackers, the safeties, DRC as a slot CB, VY as a back-up.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on what you mean by matter.

Do I think this disappointing season should cost any of those three their jobs? I do not. Comments made to the press may not reflect their own internal expectations. They would have had to known that coming in with rookies and 2nd year players as starters, many new free agents, and an almost completely new defensive coaching staff with hardly any offseason could lead to some growing pains. Obviously, this team probably underperformed any of their internal expectations, but I think firing any of them would be reactionary over one bad year.

I’d give Reid one year to fix some of his mistakes, let the younger players/veterans have a full offseason to prepare, and if next season is a repeat of this one, then by all means fire Reid.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh… What? You think the Eagles were just giving the media lip service? And what good would come of that? That’s a mighty big assumption you just made using flawed logic.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

What does it matter what they told the media? Or really even what they internally though to be honest? What matters if you think they can successfully identify the mistakes of this year and fix them for next season. I do.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Dec 28, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The Eagles are great at remaining calm while fucking up big decisions.

Head of White Star Line to builders of Titanic: “Too many lifeboats are unnecessary. They will make the deck look ugly. The big ship with too small a rudder and a single hull is fine to sail the icy North Atlantic.”

Andy Reid: “Linebackers are unnecessary. They will get in the way of our fast cornerbacks. Our undersized defensive line and slow, small safeties are fine to stop Frank Gore and Fred Jackson.”

God Damn you, Andy Reid.

The fat queen has failed us again. Reid must go.

by EvilBanner on Dec 28, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Last playoff win

Was vs the Giants the week after the Vikings

by Mc5 on Dec 28, 2011 9:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

You're completely insane

Andy Reid is the best gift this franchise has ever received. We should be thankful that he’s willing to coach for us for another year.

Seriously, he brought us back from irrelevance and has made Eagles football great again. Quite frankly, I’m astonished we’re even having this debate.

by Coray Seifert on Dec 28, 2011 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

I can imagine that, if Reid is around for another 20 years without a Super Bowl win, people would still be pulling this argument out.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"

by Imp on Dec 28, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

If Reid were appointed “coach for life” then maybe some anger would be turned to the ownership. Oddly, they get a free pass here.

by 999 on Dec 28, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly, I would be happy if they hired Reid as coach for life. You know that he’s going to break through one of these years, and I would gladly take 20 years of competitive football over 1 year flashes with decades of misery in between.

Maybe that’s just me, but if you think back to the 80’s and 90’s, things were pretty grim. Do not want! :)

by Coray Seifert on Dec 28, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Slippery slope arguments are fun!

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

we’re not competitive unless you consider this season with a best possible outcome of 8-8 with no hope of postseason in one of the trashiest divisions in the league competitive.

by fhqwagads on Dec 28, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me get this straight

Because the eagles sucked in the 80s and 90s (FYI they went to just as many SBs in that time frame as Andy has), you are somehow ok with watching this team crash and burn for the same f’n reasons every year? we havent had a good LB since carlos emmons for god’s sake! Andy drafted a DE (graham) over a S (thomas) as dawkins was being shown the door. we went from dawkins and mikell at safety to a revolving door of idiots. we never have timeouts at the end of the half/game. red zone offense has been atrocious for years. letting akers go in a season you claim to be ‘all-in’ are you kidding?

i guess what i’m saying is i know what i’m getting with Andy reid and I’m tired of it. If you want to watch more of the above thats your opinion, but i’m done winning NFCE titles and going on mini-playoff runs that always seem to end before they should. i want a god damn ring and until recently i thought andy was the guy, but hes not. get over it.

NOW HIRING- NFL HEAD COACH

by mpd2005 on Dec 28, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Your point

on missing LBs (not drafting LBs early) is valid. Same thing with taking Graham ahead of Thomas and Pierre-Paul. Right now that’s looking like a huge mistake.

But Akers was not a reason why we’re staring at 8-8 (or 7-9) right now. You do realize that Akers missed two FG’s against us this year, right? Which was the same as Henery. Henery hasn’t missed a FG since that SF game. He’s only missed one other FG all season. And that was a 63 yarder against the Falcons at the end of the first half. Granted we haven’t attempted many FG’s this year, but that’s not Henery’s fault. He’s been just fine.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

nah

Stewart Bradley had a great year, Rolle looks good. Graham hasn’t panned out yet, but suffered a major setback. Next year is the year to decide on him. Letting Akers go was a smart business decision; Henery looks to be an excellent kicker for a decade at least, wheras Akers is going to fall off eventually.

And we may have gone to the same number of SBs, but how many playoff appearances? How many NFC championship appearances? Wanting “a goddamn ring” is what everyone wants. 31 teams won’t get it this year. Should they all fire their head coaches?

by smeagle on Dec 28, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

If Reid gets fired...

… expect two or three bleak years before the record improves. Whomever takes over is going to have to do a lot of restructuring to fit their schemes.

Honestly, I was the oddball this year, in that I expected the team to finish between 6-10 and 8-8: too many changes in too little time with the abbreviated preseason was to me a recipe for disaster. Still I think this team has huge potential and that the margins between 7-8 and 12-3 are so small. My vote would be to give Reid another year.

Just think, our defense has allowed as many points as Green Bay this year. I wonder if their defensive coordinator is on his way out the door? I wonder if the fans there are outraged? Oh, they are 13-1, so I guess it is less of a concern there . Several differences contribute, but offensive productivity is what sets Green Bay apart.

by 999 on Dec 28, 2011 10:11 AM EST reply actions  

What makes you say that? Rex Ryan made an AFC Championship game in his first year. John Harbaugh made an AFC Championship in his first year. Mike Tomlin won his division and made the playoffs in his first year. Jim Caldwell made the superbowl in his first year. Norv Turner made the AFC Championship game in his first year with the Chargers. And look at Jim Harbaugh this year.

And the list of superbowl championships and appearances in the second year is quite extensive.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I tend to think most coaches would be wanting to replace our smaller players at a number of positions and would try to move out a good deal of them.

But I think the pieces are there and yes, a prudent coach could have success really quickly.

by 999 on Dec 28, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

First of all, I can’t see 2-3 years of “restructuring”. I don’t think there’s that much that truly needs to fall into place to make us a very successful football team. Yes, we need a new DC, but if we sign someone early in the offseason, that gives him months to begin to rollout a new system. Even if that system is completely different, we’re not nearly in as bad of a position we were this year with the lockout.

Also, while we may match GB in the points allowed department, they’re also 2nd in the league in takeaways, so offensive productivity is not the major contributing factor.

Bottom line is, we need someone who can draft properly, we need someone to make the right personnel decisions and we need to change up the defensive scheme. If you don’t think a fresh face in this town might trigger a few of those changes, I’m not sure what to tell you…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

We need him for another year and heres why...

Vick cant have more than 2-4 yrs left in his tank the way he is contantly nursing something. A new coach now would not be able to just jump in, arrange the offense, defense, coaches, special teams, assistants, etc and win a superbowl. IT would take 2-3yrs. And by then we need another QB. Then it will take him another 2-3 yrs of learning to get us to a SB. The timing is just not right. IF we bring in a new coach, we MUST bring in a new QB that can learn the system. Vick doesnt have the gas left to start new … again.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:26 AM EST reply actions  

This is probably the worst argument for Reid that I’ve seen yet.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

well, what is your goal for next year... rebuild or superbowl?

if its superbowl, then a new coach is not the answer.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

also,

are you also asking for juan’s head too? Marty’s?
If so, forget any notion of the superbowl.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Not Marty’s, I quite like Marty. Kind of ridiculous to fire the guy who orchestrates the most productive offense in Eagles’ history IMO.

Hire a defensive head coach (Mike Zimmer) and bring in a new defensive coordinator (Mel Tucker). Keep the offensive scheme in place, it is proven and it works.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Superbowl

As always.

And I think that a new coach could get use there. We have the talent, we just need a new leader.

But I don’t think Reid goes anywhere, I think this late season run has bought him one more year. Unfortunately.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

i liked it i mean reid and vick together in this offense is pretty dangerous i would love one more year with andy

by ieatcrayons on Dec 28, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

So Vick is reason we need a new coach? Who should we bring in to replace the guy we just handed 80 mil to?

It’s also the coaches JOB to arrange the various aspects of the team and make it into a winning organization…that’s what coaches get paid to do.

Please stop making excuses / being an Andy apologist…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s also the coaches JOB to arrange the various aspects of the team and make it into a winning organization…that’s what coaches get paid to do.

It is what they get paid to do … but to EXPECT/DEMAND that a coach comes in fresh, with a new DC and/or OC and make a run at the superbowl in his first year is setting someone up to fail. Again, what is your goal for next season? Rebuild or Superbowl?

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

And,

If Andy goes after next season, a new coach can draft Vick’s successor and build his team up. The timiing is just not right. This would be a bad thing to do right now if we were to fire Andy.

Dont get me wrong either, AR has NOT impressed me this year! But this season was not totally on his head. Between Djax’s issues, tipped passes that got picked HOW MANY FRIGGIN TIMES!!, a new Oline coach, a new Dline coach, a new DC, a new Secondary Coach, new Linebackers coach, the team was bound for some growing pains.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

1. DeSean’s issues can be directly related to the lack of a new contract and not giving a shit…whose fault is that?

2. New O-Line coach? Hired by Andy and the FO.

3. New D-Line coach? Hired by Andy and the FO.

4. New secondary coach? Hired by Andy and the FO.

5. New LB coach? Hired by Andy and the FO.

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok…
1. DeSean in my opinion has mental issues, possibly depression and/or anxiety. He gives a shit, he would not tank the team on purpose because of a new contract.
2. If AR did not make those changes to the coaching staff, you would be blasting him for it too.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

whose fault is that?

Uh, DeSean’s? Remember how he was asking for top 5 WR money, and everyone said he was crazy? You can’t fault management when someone asks for too much money.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

With the amount of talent we have on this team, it’s not an unreasonable goal to ask for a deep playoff run. Yes, certain things have to go our way (i.e. Vick staying healthy, probably picking up a new WR, solidifying our LBs), but if we would have played even ONE more game to the level we’ve played the past few at, we would be in the playoffs and riding a 4-5 game win streak.

Anyone who tells you that winning a SB is not the goal is lying to you…that should be every single teams goal, every single season…I expect nothing less from whomever it is we have as our HC, DC, OC, etc to get us there

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

that should be every single teams goal, every single season…I expect nothing less from whomever it is we have as our HC, DC, OC, etc to get us there

It SHOULD be, yes. That is everyone’s goal! But who can realistically make it happen? The Colts might have had it as a goal, but lets face it, it isnt going to happen. Furthermore, you are completely spoiled by the success that AR has brought to this organization.
To “expect nothing less” than a a superbowl every season is ludicrous!!!

With the amount of talent we have on this team, it’s not an unreasonable goal to ask for a deep playoff run.

Yes, but without a DC who can put the talent in the right position to make it happen, the talent is wasted. And I dont put ALL the blame on Castillo either (most of it I do, but not all). He had all new position coaches on his defense. Imagine if we hired you as the DC with no experience and hired all your friends as position coaches and said good luck. You’d fall flat on your face the first half of the season too.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not asking them to make it happen, I’m asking them to make it their goal and show us a little progress toward that goal. Like a playoff appearance perhaps…

I wasn’t saying I expected a SB every year, sorry, I was trying to say that should be the main goal of the organization. No one expects a SB appearance every year, that’s just ridiculous.

Point understood w/the DC, but who put Castillo in charge? It was Andy. It was Andy who made the decision to switch him from O-Line coach to DC. You of course cannot put all of the blame on Juan, that wouldn’t be fair. But to start “experimenting” with all new position coaches after making such an immense amount of moves in the offseason was plain stupid…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I refer you to above, if he didnt make those changes in the position coaching staff, we all would have blasted him for that as well.

Andy upgraded our Oline coach to Mudd.
Andy upgraded our Dline coach to Washburn.
and 1yr ago, Andy saw a defense that lacked any kind of spirit and hired his most hardworking, energetic, players’ guy he knew to motivate them all. I do beleive that when AR hired Juan for the DC position, he wanted him to be more of a delegator to his position coaches.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Listen…I love Wash, he’s a great coach and I’m hoping he’s one of the guys that make it through this offseason…that being said, you can’t go making wholesale changes to every aspect of the organization all at once.

You can’t bring in so many new faces, so many new coaches and a new scheme on almost both sides of the ball and expect success. THAT is on Andy and Andy alone.

What do you mean about a defense with no spirit? We were a top 10 last year as well…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

umm... we had the worst red zone defense since the 1988 Houston Oilers!

Our defense was horrid.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Yet still ranked in the top 10 overall…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Last year ... not this year.

And I am not exaggerating … there has NOT been a worse team in the red zone since the 1988 Oilers.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

So Andy set a team of stars in their prime to fail for a year?

What about that isn’t outrageous?

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

it is outrageous, but if he didnt make the changes, he would have been castrated for that too.

he was damned from the start here. The only bad thing here is how long it took to get it together.
Not that its all fine and dandy now either.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

He wouldn't have been castrated

He had to make a couple changes, but no one was pushing him hard into signing the two best defensive FA, the top available backup QB, a RB who could have started at most places or to promote his OL coach to DC. It was supposed to be great that he did and at the time not one soul in the organization was trying to temper expectations beyond the taming the ‘dream team’ chatter. No one said “it’s gonna take a year to rebuild” or “we’re too new to win this season, wait til next year.” They went with “all in”.

A great coach is a coach who forms the players into a team despite everything “against them”. It’s not like we added scrubs either, we added stars, the sort of players who are supposed to come in and make a 2010 playoff team a real SB contender, not come in and be an excuse for struggle.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

There are a lot of very important pieces all ready in place for a coach to work with. A strong O-line, Maclin, McCoy, Celek, Cole, NA, DRC and Jenkins; you can possibly add Jackson to that list. You’ve got one more year of Vick with this year’s bumper crop of QB’s pushed back to next year. There also isn’t much money tied up long term. It’s a relatively ideal situation.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Your poll

Is lacking an option that says should stay longer than one more year.

by KCChina on Dec 28, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

Because no one in their right mind would want him here (barring a SB victory) past one year…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

remember how badly the Giants fans wanted Coughlin out,

then the next season he won the superbowl. Hes still there.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

If that’s your mindset, then we can play this game until Andy is old and grey…

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

No no... I said above... the timing is just not right.

If Vick was a year or two older, now would be the time. But he isnt. To expect a new coach and a new DC to come in (assuming we dont lose Wash, Mudd, April, or Marty- and that is a HUGE assumption) to come in with an aging banged up QB, a disgruntled WR or a hole at WR, and win a superbowl in their first year is INSANE thinking.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

If you think our major problems revolve around Vick’s health and DeSean’s attitude, it’s pretty clear you’re not exactly clear about the Eagles franchise.

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

without understanding where you are getting that assumption from ... let me pose the question to you sir ...

What are our “major problems” in your opinion?

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

ONE of our problems IS DeSean. He was the most explosive player on the team a year ago. What happened? Contract blues? who knows, doesnt make sense to me. his dad died, overinflated ego, …. whatever it is… he is asking for way too much money. And you would think he would prove the money he is worth. I think he is trying, I really do. I think he is beating himself right now and it will probably cost him either the contract he thought he would get or will cost him any contract with the PE org.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

ONE player is not what is wrong with this organization! I’m not defending DeSean, but maybe he just had a down year? We can draft a WR with talent and replace him instantly…look at what AJ Green did for Cincy…it’s about addressing the organizational changes at this point

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

cmon man... I said ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS ... not ONE PLAYER IS OUR PROBLEM.

Further … where do we draft a WR… After our LB (and we probably draft 2)… After our Safety … After a QB (remember VY is on a 1 yr deal) …

He didnt just have a down year … not running his routes fully, not looking for the ball, sitting depressed on sideline … Maybe he has girl issues. who knows but its not just a down year.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

We can draft a WR and replace him instantly? Really? We can replace Desean with a draft pick? First of all AJ Green and Julio Jones were top 6 draft picks. We won’t be drafting even in the top 10. Second, have you heard of guys like Devin Thomas? Malcom Kelly? Limas Sweed? Jerome Simpson? Dexter Jackson? Donnie Avery? James Hardy? Eddie Royal?

All of those guys were drafted in the same round as Desean in 2008. The chance of us drafting a guy like that are much greater than us drafting a guy like Desean. I could go on and on with bust WR’s over the last few years, but that one year (one round) is enough to prove the point that replacing Desean with a simple draft pick is not as easy as you think.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that our coach cannot manage personnel (i.e. OLine coach to DC), the fact that we draft absolutely terribly year in and year out (minus the draft where we secured JMac and Shady), our defensive scheme that doesn’t fit the players we brought in, the atrocity that we call our play calling, player mismanagement and making wholesale changes throughout the organization at the most inopportune times would be my major issues

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I will address each point here...

1. Managing personnel… He saw a deflated defense under McDermott and hired the most motivating guy he had on his staff. Furthermore, Juan was a LB when he played … this wasnt his first day of school … maybe his first day of college.
2. Drafting horribly … 7th rd pick on Coleman (good pick), 6th on Kelce (good pick), there are many diamonds in the rough that have become substantial players.
3. Defensive scheme – Juan’s doing. Lesson learned, corrected, and now succeeding.
4. Play calling – Marty’s doing. I’m not the biggest fan of Marty.
5. Wholesale changes and player mismanagement – Again, if he didnt do something, we would be pissed about that too!

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I knew Clayton wasn't getting much time but...

what did he do to deserve playing in Oklahoma while the rest of the team is in Philly?

by Turd.Ferguson on Dec 28, 2011 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

What?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

his position is listed as Oklahoma

by Turd.Ferguson on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

1. Holding Reid directly accountable for the horrible defensive drafting is a very weak argument. He’s always been more involved on the offense side of things and likely lets the GM have much more control on the defensive players. If anything, the fact that the offensive players drafts look better than the defensive players drafts would support that Reid’s influence is more likely a plus.

2. Don’t forget that those free agents that we are “forced” to rely on often cite Reid as a large part of the reason that they choose to play for the Eagles.

3. Can we stop acting like a SB win is the only true measure of a head coach? Do you really think that the Giants SB win, that came down to Tyree’s crazy helmet-catch should be the single defining measure of Coughlin’s career/legacy, while conversely the Eagles 2004 run that came down to one failed drive is proof of failed coaching? Players (and luck) are just as accountable if not more so, Reid has put his team in the position to win many many times.

4. His “not so fabulous” record after year 6 still includes only 1 losing season out of 6 (and if we beat the Redskins 1 out of 7) and 4 playoff runs. While maybe not “fabulous” it’s still pretty impressive.

Don’t get me wrong, there are warning signs going forward (such as the makeshift coaching staff that Lawlor has talked about in his “case against Reid” piece), but his legacy is way above par. We don’t need to be loyal, but we should at least be grateful.

by pennstater on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

1. Unsubstantiated assumption

2. So?

3. Isn’t the ultimate goal to win championships? If the current guy isn’t doing it, why should you keep him? He has been mediocre since 2004, he’s averaged a 9-7 record. Let him go, he’s not getting it done.

4. See the above point.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

1. I agree with you. We don’t know who’s responsible for the draft. Reid has to take some of the credit/blame.

2. What do you mean so? That’s a huge plus in Reid’s favor. Players love playing for the guy. Outside players want to come and play for him. It’s just fact. If players were getting tired of him or weren’t responding to him anymore than we’d be starting to hear about it. But we hear nothing but positive praise from the players.

3. Yes, the ultimate goal is to win a SB. But penstater’s point is a great one in that Coughlin was not responsible for the Giants run. Spags was reason 1. Defensive players was reason 2. Tyree’s helmet catch is reason 3. Then Coughlin and Manning might come in at reason’s 4A and 4B. Winning a SB is not easy. Luck and players have a lot to do with it. All you can ask for as a fan is to have that chance to get there. And Andy gives us that chance. The rest is a crapshoot.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Attracting free agents is a nice thing, I agree. But it’s nothing that we need. You don’t build through free agency, we’ve proven as much this year and the Redskins have proven that for about a decade and a half under Dan Snyder. Having a good drafter is much more important than having a guy that attracts free agents. How many big free agent signings do the Steelers or Packers make? Drafting is more important and Andy Reid has proven (as the VP of player personnel and the guy who calls the shots on all personnel moves) that he is incapable of consistently drafting effectively.

And you’re arguing for our process when our process is very clearly not working.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

1) No it isn’t, Reid is clearly offensively minded. It’s more of an assumption to think he picks all the players himself.

2) So… that’s an extremely relevant point and very good positive mark in Andy’s favor.

3) "If the current guy isn’t doing it, why should you keep him? " Because his track record is extremely good and there isn’t a better replacement available? Do NASCAR drivers destroy their automobiles when they don’t get 1st place?

4) His record is good. See the above point.

by smeagle on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

1. So you’re really going to argue that Andy Reid has no role in picking defensive players?

2. No, it isn’t. Free agents are hood ornaments, I’ll take a good drafter over a guy who attracts free agents every single time. You build through the draft, not free agency. And Andy Reid has shown that he is incapable of building through the draft, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

3. We’ve been going at it with Andy Reid for 13 seasons and we’ve won nothing. Clearly our process isn’t working. And who are you to say there isn’t a better replacement available? Surely you have no insight into assistant coaches that nobody else does. How do you figure this?

4. His record is mediocre since the superbowl run. Mediocrity doesn’t cut it, especially when you hype yourself up as a championship caliber team.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

If you're incapable of building through the draft

Then you don’t last 13 years in this league as a HC/GM and you don’t go to the playoffs 9 out of 13 years. If you’re incapable of building through the draft then you usually get the boot within five years and you go back to being an assistant somewhere in complete obscurity.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Vague point is vague.

Instead of hiding behind this argument, go ahead and look at our drafting track record and then come back and talk to me.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

heindsight!

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

You go look at

every other teams drafting track record and come back and talk to me. Andy has missed his fair share of picks. But so has every other team in the league. Go look at Belichick’s drafts. He’s missed more than Andy has.

The point is, there’s no exact science to drafting. History has shown you’re going to hit some and you’re going to miss some. Every team does it. Andy (and the FO) is no exception.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Problem: We’re not hitting.

Our first round draft picks have largely been failures. And all our draft picks are underperforming. Outside of DeSean, LeSean and Maclin along with maybe Kelce and Rolle, there are no young players on this team that look like they can be good players in the future. That is a drafting failure and until we right that ship, this team isn’t going to get better.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

What sample size are you using?

What are you considering as young? The last two drafts? The last three? Five?

There are only so many draft picks to go around. You’re going to get studs like Lesean, Jeremy, Desean. And you’re going to get other guys like Kelce, Watkins, Chaney, Coleman, Allen. And you’re going to get guys like Ingram, Teo-Nesheim. You will not hit on all. All you can ask for is a few stars and a few starters, while also picking some guys that that end up out of the league or off the team. It’s just the nature of the draft.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I would put Coleman as a decent player with a lot of potential. I also would like to see what Nate Allen brings next year.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Coleman and Allen is probably the worst starting safety combination in the NFL. Neither are anything more than back-up caliber. Allen has starter athleticism but he’s as soft as charmin. Coleman doesn’t have NFL athletic ability but he’s gritty. They’re both bad in different ways.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

wow. Maybe you would like to have Dimitri Patterson and Macho Harris back.

This is just meaningless banter with a person who just wants to argue. Sorry, but my lunch is more interesting to me. Later.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Two more failures. Please, keep listing them.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Coleman

is probably best as a 3rd safety. I’ll give you that. But Allen just reached a year removed from his injury. He has been wildly inconsistent this year, but he has shown flashes of being a really good starter.

I think your problem is you’re so narrow-sighted. That’s the problem with all of us Eagles fans. We see the problems we have and we think we’re the only ones with that problem. Like “the Eagles have the worst set of safeties in the league.” There are a lot of bad safety combo’s in the league right now. It’s an epidemic. Same thing with our LB’s. There are other teams with putrid LB corps. We’re not the only ones. As Marty would say “it’s cyclic.” You’re not going to have a dominate unit at every level of the defense/offense.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, find me a worse set of starting safeties or a worse set of starting linebackers. Go.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Pat Angerer is pretty good, better than any LB we’ve got.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

He's only pretty good

because he has so many damn tackles 5+ yards down the field. He’s really not that good though.

Plus they have Ernie Sims… and they’re the worst run D in the league. Literally.

You continue just to argue for argument’s sake. You hate just to hate. Start being objective and realistic and I’ll have an objective and realistic debate with you.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Pat Angerer has 44 stops
Jamar Chaney has 30 stops.

Stops aren’t tackles down field.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Again

Not arguing in favor of Chaney. He has been disappointing.

Just curious what the total snaps are. Angerer could’ve played 50 more snaps than Chaney. I don’t know.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Pat Angerer has played 982 snaps.
Jamar Chaney has played 869 snaps.

Hardly a difference big enough to account for 14 more stops.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Angerer had a stop every 22.3 plays.
Chaney had a stop every 29 plays.

Angerer gets the nod.

Still doesn’t disprove my point that the Colts LB corps is bad.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Kavell Connor and Phillip Wheeler are better than our WLB and SLB.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Idk enough about those guys to argue against you.

Plus it’s not worth it because it has no basis in the front-lying argument of this post.

Our LB’s are bad, but we still have an above average defense. (Top 8 in overall defense, Top 12 in pts/game) Would you rather have a bad LB corps and a top 12 defense? Or a “slightly better than ours” LB corps and the 30th ranked defense? Obviously Andy (or the FO) is doing something right. Even though there’s room for improvement.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

But we were awful before we faced Matt Moore, Mark Sanchez and Stephen McGee. You’re leaving that out.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

So

You’d rather have the Colts defense?

Gotcha.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I said that.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

And you’re leaving out the fact that other defenses in the NFL also play against these kinds of QBs. Are we the only team to have faced Mark Sanchez or Matt Moore?

Other teams have faced them as well, and those teams rankings reflect that just as ours do.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Giants Safeties

Check PFF. (I don’t have a subscription but I’ve seen numbers proving that Coleman/Allen have actually been better than Rolle/Phillips. Who have actually been awful this year)

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The Giants safeties are bad but they’re certainly better and more talented than ours are.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

So you'd rather have

Antrel Rolle and his contract? And Phillips and his knees? C’mon now. They both are/were talented but they have their flaws and they’ve been terrible this year.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

But they’ve been no worse than Allen and Coleman.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly his point. You’re gonna go with the guys who have been “no worse than ours” and take the fragile knees and contract along with them?

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SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d argue that Coleman and Allen have been worse than Phillips and Rolle but I guess that would depend on how dark your shades are.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact is

I agree that our safeties and LB’s are bad. Not trying to argue otherwise. We definitely need to focus on those two positions this offseason. But labeling them the worst units in the league by a long shot is not accurate.

Especially not when our defense is 8th overall and 8th against the pass. You don’t have that rank with the “worst set of LB’s and Safeties” in the league.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Volume stats suck.

And our defense was one of the worst in the NFL before we got the god-send of playing Matt Moore, Mark Sanchez and Stephen McGee.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Two of those guys were playing pretty well until they faced us. Even if they are really bad guess what our D did what it’s job. Can’t use doing there job as a negative point.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn’t matter that our defense can beat up on bad players. I can beat up a first grader, does that make me tough?

Look at what Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler and Tom Brady did to our defense, they owned us. What does beating up on bad players mean if you can’t show up against the good players too? Nothing.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at what

Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, and Tom Brady did to MOST defenses.

Again, you’re being narrow-sighted instead of comparing apples to apples.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

When you say you’re all in and pair Nnamdi, DRC, Jenkins and Babin with Cole and Asante, you aren’t “most defenses”.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

They did there job in the last couple of games and beat teams they are better than.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Our drafting record is average to above average.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say that as it pertains to defensive players. I’m OK with how we’ve drafted on offense for the most part. Defense, not so much.

I think that is the underlying problem since the SB team. We have not adequately replaced aging defensive players through the draft. Reid has a lot to do with that.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

1. Whether or not he’s more involved on the offensive side or not, he’s still involved and probably has the largest say on who to draft on either side of the ball. Andy Reid’s drafting is terrible in general. Just because we drafted Maclin and Shady doesn’t mean he’s any good, look at the rest of his draft picks…

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3700&type=team

2. Reid and the fact that we were finally willing to open our wallets up to pay these guys…

3. He may have put us in a position to win, but it’s still on him to get us over the top. Talent can only take you so far, you have to have a coach who knows how to get that last bit out of every guy.

4. No one is arguing his impressive resume, we’re arguing that we’ve been dealing with it for 12 years now and we’re not wearing any rings….

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

reply fail

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Look folks, I am as disgusted and disappointed in this seasons end as all of you.

1. If Andy goes, who does he take with him? Mudd? Wash? Marty? April? 2 or 3 out of 4 probably is my guess.
2. Andy takes guys like Kolb, Kafka, Feely, McNabb, and even Vick, and hones their talent. He makes them better than they could have ever been. Proof in point, look at what happened to all of them that have left and failed.
3. Andy is an offensively minded coach, we all know that. He may or may not replace his DC again. This will be #4 in 5 yrs. Sorry but, you arent going to create a good bond with teammates when no one knows what to expect next.
4. Like I said above, the timing to fire him is not good. We still have a great team that we can win with, now that we finally are gelling. If he fails again, then peace out!

But like some of you are saying, replace him, replace Juan, and whoever else … please think of the consequeces of that. There will be no superbowl next year. The year after we will be losing many talented guys to age. Then a new QB, and a new start again… If nothing next season then forget having one for a good 4-6yrs!

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions  

1. That’s assuming that he not only gets immediately picked up by another team, that the team accepts his demands to bring players with him but that the team currently doesn’t have better coaches in place for those areas already. A lot of assumptions to make….

2. Kolb was completely unproven in Philadelphia, Kafka is completely unproven in general…did you say AJ Feely?

3. So let Andy worry about the offense and bring in a PROVEN D-COORDINATOR, not our O-Line coach to fill in the spot

4. The timing is never going to be just right…there will always be contracts ending, coaches getting poached away from us, injuries that force draft picks, etc etc

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

1. Dont think its a lot to assume … case in point – Mike Shannahan brought a lot of his guys … as did parcells.
2. Kolb set rookie records for throwing for 300+yrds in his first 2 games. Kafka has shown signs of brilliance and signs of rookie jitters. You will see. AJ Feely – yes that AJ Feely that started in Miami after leaving the Eagles and now back as a suitable backup in St. Louis.
3. I agree, he should have brought in a PROVEN DC. No excuse, but not enough to fire him.
4. A coach’s relationship with his QB is paramount to his success. If Vick is on his last leg, no coach wants to start with that! And no QB wants a new coach late in his career. I am not just saying one year because others seem to say it … ONE MORE YEAR because it makes sense.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

1. The guys they brought WORKED in their systems…that’s still yet to be seen with almost every one of the coaches currently in place in our system.

2. Throwing for 300+ yds in your first two games doesn’t make you a good QB necessarily…you know damn well you haven’t seen NEARLY enough of Kafka to say he’s showed “since of brilliance” and AJ Feely is as suitable as I am for a backup role in STL

3. Not enough to fire him, but if he was in the right mindset, he would have brought in a proven DC years ago…

4. Michael Vick is not on his last leg despite your assumptions. Last year he was the starting Pro Bowl QB and put up career numbers. Simply because he’s injury prone (something that is being worked on) doesn’t mean he’s fading out of this league…let’s get the guy some fuckin protection before we start trying to replace him

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The Seahawks game was a cross country game on a Thursday night. The team had literally 2 days to prepare for it. With a backup QB. Those don’t sound like circumstances conducive to winning.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

unfortunately, that is just an excuse. We are a better team than the one that played that day.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Excuses. Excuses.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

We lost a bunch of home games this year, too.

"I once had a friend named Charlie, and Charlie was always late to school
He had a black eye one day, but he wouldn’t say just what happened to him
Charlie got mad in class one day, and stood up with a .22 pistol
Told everybody that he couldn’t take it anymore, he was over being the victim"

by Snax on Dec 28, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

OK

to everyone who wants Andy fired please reply with your choice for a replacement and why that person would fix whats wrong with the Eagles. You could make a lot of valid points to fire a lot of coaches in the NFL. Let’s start talking about who should be hired if you want Andy fired. All I hear is why he should be but that is only half the problem. I do not see Tony Dungy walking through those doors anytime soon so who are ya’ll hopping we hire?

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

Reply with your coach replacement and his expectation for his first year – is what I would like to hear.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

he’s an unimpressive 61-49-1(.554)

This is my biggest problem with the Reid haters. Only in negadelphia can you be 12 games over .500 and have it be considered “unimpressive”.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

Mediocrity isn’t impressive. Sorry.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is your replacement for Andy. What will he do to fix the Eagles.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That doesn’t matter.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

yes it does.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn’t matter what I think about who should replace Andy Reid, that’s not my responsibility.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

it matters to us who think he should stay.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not your responsibility to say he need to be fired. That is something you want to do. If you want to have a constructive conversation then fix the whole problem you see. If you can not offer a solution to the problem you see is it wise to act on that problem. In this case I say it is not.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Its pretty clearly above mediocre since .500 is mediocre (duh)

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

9-7 is mediocre. Sorry.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it isn’t, by the sheer definition. Sorry.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The only reason it is by his standards is because he is spoiled by the success here in philly.

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

Its classic negadelphia

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

And this is a perfect example of when an explicit definition fails. 9-7 is mediocre, there is no way around that.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That isn’t as impressive as you are making it out to it. .554 winning percentage in one season is about 8.9 – or 9 wins a year. More often than not, that isn’t even going to get a team into the playoffs.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"

by Imp on Dec 28, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That also includes the cherry picked endpoint. We’re 16 games over .500 since Andy’s worst season as a head coach.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

9-7 isn’t good.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

better than 7-8

"Obviously, I lobbied for him to be here. But what a difference a year makes." -- Donovan McNabb

by thePurpleLion on Dec 28, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Not by much. Mediocrity.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

this is what you remind me of

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He set the standard with his over .600 WP the years before

We WERE an NFC powerhouse, every year we were favorites and it seemed that every year Reid took us deep into the playoffs. What’s happened since we made the SB? We’ve been good, but not nearly at the magnitude we used to be. The most talented roster he’s had since the SB is set to finish at .500 or worse.

In sports you keep your job for what you WILL do, not for what you HAVE done. Reid’s latest string of work tells me he’s fallen off his game quite a bit as a coach. Maybe he’s failed to adapt to changes in the league or maybe he was just the sum of his assistants, and with his greatest assistant ever now hopefully resting peacefully, he may never be at that level again. Reid was once on the path to being one of those legendary coaches we will always remember fondly the way Steelers fans remember Cowher, and how they likely will remember Tomlin. But I think we left that path a few years ago. He brought some great seasons and times, but it’s mostly in the distant past and it’s time to move on. “one more year” is a slippery slippery slope.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

With JJ = 10 PO wins. Without JJ = 0 PO wins.

If these stats were taken in a vacuum, it would be convincing, but the team since JJ passed has been completely rebuilt. How many teams get rid of their franchise QB (or their top RB, or the best safety they’ve ever had etc.) and keep on winning?

The fact that Reid has been able to just make the playoffs while reloading is really fucking impressive.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

Oh please, you’ve heard of Michael Vick and LeSean McCoy? Yeah? Well they’re pretty good, wouldn’t you agree?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And? How many coaches find a Westbrook AND a McCoy?

Or a McNabb AND a Vick ?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Your point just changed.

And how many coaches find Westbrook, McCoy, McNabb and VIck and win absolutely nothing with them? There has probably never been a coach that has won less with more.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it didn’t. We had to find new players. The fact that we have been able to win while doing that is pretty impressive.

And Andy was literally the third winningest coach of the past decade.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is great and all

But what does he have to show for it?

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, it did. You said that Andy Reid shouldn’t be held accountable because he had to switch from McNabb and Westbrook to Vick and McCoy. That is EXACTLY what you said.

How many teams get rid of their franchise QB (or their top RB, or the best safety they’ve ever had etc.) and keep on winning?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

What? They transitioned from one QB to another. That’s finding new players, is it not?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Le sigh...

You’re making excuses for Andy Reid (as usual). Lets break it down.

R36 makes an extremely valid point that we’ve won no playoff games since Jim Johnson passed.

If these stats were taken in a vacuum, it would be convincing, but the team since JJ passed has been completely rebuilt. How many teams get rid of their franchise QB (or their top RB, or the best safety they’ve ever had etc.) and keep on winning?

You’re excusing Andy Reid’s failure to win a playoff game by blaming the departure of Donovan McNabb, Westbrook and Dawkins. But you completely failed to acknowledge that at QB and RB, the replacements have been better, thus making your point completely invalid.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok we get it you want Andy fired. unless you are going to give a name and why he would be a better coach please stop.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s not my job, you’ll just rip into any replacement I throw out there, regardless of their qualifications. Plus, my knowledge of assistant coaches is extremely limited, it’s not my job to find a replacement. I don’t know who the best head coaching candidates are but what I do know is that Andy Reid isn’t the guy who is going to win it all for us.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

So you’re saying you want Andy fired but you have a “limited” idea of who you’d want as a replacement? I can understand you want change, but that’s like me saying I want Jason Peters gone, but I have limited knowledge of the other LTs in the NFL, so I’m gonna let that up to the team.

Bleed-Green.com
SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And in that sense, you’re basically trusting the team that has kept Andy in place for 13 years and likely will for at least one more.

Bleed-Green.com
SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The team broke his fragile heart, and now he wants heads to roll for “accountability’s” sake.

Its short sighted negadelphia, plain and simple.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No, there is no purpose in throwing out assistant coaches as nothing is going to appease any of you. It’s a stupid point that you guys are making.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

there is no purpose in throwing out assistant coaches as nothing is going to appease any of you.

THAT’S BECAUSE THEY’LL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly! What don’t you get, djackfan10? I understand you want change, but if you’re willing to do that at the expense of not knowing who you want as a replacement, you’re clearly willing to absorb a potential decline.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And how do you know that? Magic?

Imagine Jim Harbaugh wasn’t hired by the 49ers last year and he was lined up to take the Eagles job if Andy would just leave, you’d be screaming the same thing. Because you know nothing about head coaching candidates, just like every other fan.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And how do you know that?

Simple law of averages

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to Jon Gruden, Mike Shannahan, Jim Caldwell, Tom Coughlin, Mike Tomlin, Barry Switzer and George Seifert.

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

And that’s straight from Joe Banner’s mouth. You don’t win a superbowl by playing the averages.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Then please tell that to Bill Cowher. Obviously 14 years of doing the same thing was enough for him.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill Cowher is the exception, not the rule.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

So is

Mike Tomlin and John Gruden. They are the exception, not the rule.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Well one exception seems to work out more than the other.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s clearly because the vast majority of teams don’t go the “Cowher” route. There’s way less of a sample for guys that have been with the team over 10 years.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well wouldn’t that go against your point of playing the averages?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No because you can’t make an average out of 1 instance.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If it only happened once, you’re not playing the averages.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

O.K., so now you’re going with the rule, the averages, the broader data…but you want to pick outliers to add into Reid’s career winning percentage/average amount of wins in order to make his tenure seem mediocre? Come on.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Aren’t you doing the same thing by citing “the averages, the broader data” but then looking at Cowher as an example? Yeah…

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I’ll tell it to Steve Spanoulo, Mike Singletary, Jim Zorn, Eric Mangini, Raheem Morris, Steve Spurrier, Romeo Crenel, Butch Davis, Wade Phillips, Ken Whisenhunt, Dennis Green in Arizona, Dave McGinnis, Scott Linehan, Mike Nolan, Rob Marinelli, Jack del Rio, Tony Sparano, Cam Cameron, Nick Saben, Mike Mularky, Greg Williams, Tom Cable, Lane Kiffen, Bill Callahan, Mike Shannahan in Washington and George Seifert thank you very much.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, those guys took over good teams and won superbowls? Oh wait… They took over bad teams that stayed bad. Doesn’t fit the confines of what we’re talking about.

If we’re just grabbing any and every coach that ever failed/succeeded, my list would’ve been much longer.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, make that list. Go!

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t get it, do you? We’re talking about coaches that take over a good team from another coach and succeeds. Your list of coaches doesn’t fit within the confines of this debate. It doesn’t even qualify as a tangent. It is completely irrelevant.

The list that you stole from Eric would be what is relevant.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh, “we” never said what “we” were talking about. You just listed names. That doesn’t imply guidelines.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

/bashes head against the wall

We’re talking about firing a good head coach? Right? Andy Reid is a good coach, we’re agreed? Okay. We’re talking about firing a good coach in hopes that another coach would win us a superbowl. We’re talking about coaches taking over good teams and taking the next step, not just any random coach.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

And see Eric's list below

Did the Bills get better when Marv Levy left? Did the Bengals after Sam Wyche? Did the Lions after Wayne Fontes? The Jaguars after Tom Coughlin? The Vikings after Dennis Green? The Saints after Jim Mora? The Chargers after Don Coryell? The Seahawks after Chuck Knox?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

No one is pretending like it wouldn’t be a risk.

But just for the sake of countering that list:
Did the Buccaneers win a championship after Jon Gruden replaced Tony Dungy? Did the Broncos win a championship after Mike Shannahan replaced Dan Reeves / Wade Phillips? Did Jim Caldwell appear in the superbowl after replacing Tony Dungy? Did Tom Coughlin win a superbowl after replacing Jim Fassel? Did the Steelers win a superbowl after Mike Tomlin replaced Bill Cowher? Did the Cowboys win a superbowl after Barry Switzer replaced Jimmy Johnson? Did the 49ers win a championship after George Seifert replaced Bill Walsh?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Gruden beat the team he was coaching literally less than a year before the SB. whew.

Shannahan took over a fairly bad team and made it good. Not sure why you list him.

Caldwell never won a SB and is in the process of dismantling the Colts

Similar to Shannahan, Caughlin rebuilt the Giants to get them to the SB. Fassel was trying to win with Kerry Collins.

I’ll give you Tomlin, Switzer and Seifert. So yeah, 4 times in NFL history has a coach taken over a good team and won a SB with someone else’s players. And 3 of those were instances in which the team had already won a SB, and the original head coach retired.

The odds still aren’t on your side.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

So you think that had Tony Dungy remained in Tampa Bay, he would’ve won the superbowl that year?

Shannahan took over a talented team that had John Elway and a bunch of other pieces that was 4 games over .500 in the 4 years prior to him taking over.

Thats not the point, his record as the GIants’ coach is very similar to the latter half of Andy Reid’s tenure as the Eagles’ coach. Fassel built a successful team but the Giants fired him anyway in favor of Tom Coughlin who won a superbowl 5 seasons later.

And as R36 noted, the odds aren’t on your side either.

There have been 28 superbowl winning coaches. Out of the 28, 25 have won their first Superbowl by year 7. Dick Vermeil(8th), Tom Landry(12th), and Bill Cowher(14th) are the only ones to win one after year 7. NFL Draft Bible did a study on the average number of years it takes a coach to win a superbowl, here are their charts and explanation.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Shannahan took over a talented team that had John Elway and a bunch of other pieces that was 4 games over .500 in the 4 years prior to him taking over.

Yup, because Terrell Davis, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery were all integral parts of that 94 team

And like everyone keeps saying, the NFL draft bible study’s findings are completely skewed.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re the guy who busted out the “law of averages”. If only 3 coaches have won a superbowl after 7 years on the job, what does that say for Andy’s chances to win one after 13? You’re certainly not playing the averages on that one, are you?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

/aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

There is no ‘average’ for someone like Andy. He’s essentially in uncharted waters. You can only have a meaningful average with a large enough sample size.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

So you’re willing to support a guy in “uncharted waters” but you won’t fire him because of the “law of averages”.

Uh… What?

And I think all of NFL history is a large enough sample size to conclude that the odds are against Andy Reid winning a championship.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you already know the response, but I'll write it anyway

Law of averages meaning that replacement coaches generally don’t work out, as opposed to our guy who has been pretty to really good almost his entire career here.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Caldwell is all a product of Peyton and we all know that

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 28, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The point is

you’re playing with fire.

Andy is a proven winning coach. In this league all you can ask for is a consistent shot at the playoffs. Once you’re in it’s a crapshoot. If you want to fire the proven coach and bring in an unknown then you’re taking a huge risk.

The guy could work out and lead you to the NFCCG or the SB. Or he could fail and run the team into the ground within 3 years. As he said, the law of averages just proves that.

I’d put my money on Andy leading this team to the playoffs next year way before I would put it on an unknown coach. The odd’s just prove it’d be the right bet for me to make.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. And the way this franchise has operated, I do not see it playing with fire while eating his salary for the next two years in hopes of landing someone who would need to be just as, if not more, effective than Reid.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s a risk I’m willing to take. At some point you have to shoot for the stands and try to hit a homerun because our current process has won us nothing.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Just because it hasn’t won us anything yet, doesn’t mean it won’t or can’t

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

And THAT is the fundamental issue here.

You think that Andy can win it despite not doing it yet. I don’t think he can.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And why would that be?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

seriously

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not repeating everything I’ve said in this thread. Read it again if you need to hear it again.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What, that he doesn’t take timeouts at the right time? Or that his linebackers have never been exceptional?

Yeah, real convincing stuff.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Or that he doesn’t draft well, lacks in-game management/adjustment ability, hasn’t been anything more than mediocre since 2006 and has failed to win a championship despite superior talent.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

hasn’t been anything more than mediocre since 2006

Feels like we just did this…

And Andy has averaged 10 (9.6 rounded up) wins from 2007-2010.

And the defensive drafts haven’t been great lately, but they;ve also been torn apart by injuries, and the offensive drafting has been really good.

I still don’t see anything convincing that says that Andy cannot win a SB.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Our drafting hasn't been great at any spot.

Almost every single draft since 2002 has been a failure. Just ask Jerome McDougle, LJ Smith, Billy McMullen, Shawn Andrews, Matt Ware, Reggie Brown, Matt McCoy, Ryan Moats, Brodrick Bunkley, Winston Justice, Chris Gocong, Kevin Kolb, Victor Abiamiri, Stewart Bradley, Tony Hunt, Trevor Laws, Bryan Smith, Brandon Graham, Nate Allen and Daniel Te’o-Neshiem.

Oh and thus far, Jaiquawn Jarrett and Curtis Marsh are on the bust fast track.

The only players we’ve hit on early are DeSean, Maclin and LeSean. Thats it.

And nothing is going to convince you that Andy Reid won’t win a superbowl, you’re biased as all hell.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

You can't hit on every pick

The majority of all draft picks will end up being busts. That’s the nature of the thing.

Go check out the Pats draft history. Jermaine Cunningham, Ron Brace, Darious Butler, Terrence Wheatly, Merriweather? And that’s only in the first 2 rounds since 07.

You have to be realistic with your expectations.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I know you can’t hit on every pick. But we’re barely hitting ANY picks.

And I don’t give a damn about the Patriots. Go look at the Steelers, Packers, 49ers, Ravens, Bengals and Falcons draft history.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

For the Steelers

Ziggy Hood, Evander Worilds, Limas Sweed, Kraig Urbik, Keenan Lewis, Bruce Davis, Matt Speath.

First 3 rounds since 07.

There’s no way I’m going through all those teams, but I’m pretty confident if I did I’d come up with a bunch of no-namers too.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Ziggy Hood who starts for their elite defense? Ziggy Hood, who put up 2 sacks in 3 games in their playoff run last year from the 3-4 DE spot? Yeah…

Jason Worilds who has filled in for James Harrison just fine?

And it’s nice to see that you’re ignoring Maurkice Pouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Rashard Mendenhall, Lawrence Timmons, Lamarr Woodley, Santonio Holmes, Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller and Troy Polamalu.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not ignoring the success, I’m just illustrating a point about ‘busts’. The Eagles have them, but so does every other team in the league.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I never said that teams didn’t have busts. I’m saying that we’ve had less success.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I saw a list of Eagles busts and assumed that’s where you were going with it.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Shawn Andrews

was a great draft pick. He had All-Pro talent. Injuries/depression is what derailed him.

Bunkley was a solid DT. Not a bust.

Kevin Kolb got us compensation that was greater than what we spent to get him.

Stewart Bradley was a very good LB. But like Andrews, injuries derailed him.

Gocong was a fine starter for us. And is now a solid starter for the Browns.

Brandon Graham… injury; too early to tell.

Nate Allen… injury; too early to tell.

Jaiquawn and Curtis… wayyy too early to tell.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

How are Shawn Andrews, Bunkley, Kolb, Bradley, Gocong and Graham contributing to the Eagles’ now? Busts.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Now your just being contrarian

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really. Why are draft picks taken? So they can contribute to the team. Well, they’re not really doing that, are they?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Was Jerome Brown a bust?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that’s stupid. Completely different circumstances and you know that.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

But Graham and Allen are busts because they tore their knees apart?

Either way, all three didn’t contribute that much.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats weird, I seem to recall that Brown put up 5 dominant years in Philadelphia.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

And I don’t think he was a bust, but you seem to have some weird qualifiers as to what makes someone a bust, one of them being longevity, which Brown clearly didn’t have.

I don’t see how Brown is any different than Shawn Andrews with regards to being a successful draft pick.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Could we please leave Jerome Brown out of this. I understand that you’re trying to make a point, but the man deserves better.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me get this straight

D-Jackfan saying Andrews “pussed out” when he has an actual medical condition is fine, but when I bring up Brown for a comparison, that’s an issue?

Seems a little misguided.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Look in your heart. Does Jerome’s name deserve to be thrown around next to Cee Lo Jrs? It’s a disservice to his memory.

AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a clock.
I am the proud target of temper tantrums.

by KByars on Dec 28, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

So the fact that he’s dead means that his name should never come up, ever?

Give me a break. Its a comparison, get over it. Its not like I’m trashing the guy, he was a great player and a great person. Simply talking about him isn’t a “disservice to his memory”.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Shawn Andrews pussed out, that’s the difference. Jerome Brown died in a tragic car accident. Shawn Andrews was “getting his Michael Phelps on” and watching Spongebob.

That’s how.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

So he’s a bust for reasons other than football? Interesting.

And depression is a very serious issue, whether or not you want to admit it. He didn’t just “puss out”.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

:’(

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#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So, just to confirm, according to you, one can be a bust for reasons other than football?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but that doesn’t mean Jerome Brown is a bust. Stop being a POS.

We got 3 years of good action from Shawn Andrews. Other than that he was a weak minded puss. “I can’t play because I’m sad”, what a waste.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not saying Jerome Brown was a bust, I’m just using that to illustrate the point that Andrews wasn’t a bust either.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Shawn Andrews is a total waste of space and air. Fuck him.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You mentioned

Santonio Holmes in the list above for the Steelers. But yet you’re ignoring guys like Kevin Kolb, Bunkley, Gocong in this list.

Is Santonio contributing to the Steelers?

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re right, take him off.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

completely ludicrous to call those guys “busts”

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I’m excusing the just (lol) pretty good years we’ve had recently on the entire overhaul of the entire team. Those were examples, notice the “etc.” in my original post.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok so who is Andys replacement. I am fine if they fire him he has had his chances to win and he has won everything but the SB. I just don’t think THIS year is the year to fire him. If you hire the wrong coach you set the franchise back more than if you keep Andy for the 2012 season.

by emtmess on Dec 28, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember when D-Jackfan was clamoring for Perry Fewell.

Well, he’s in luck, since Fewell is about to get shit canned

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

He was a good interim head coach for the Bills.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Define good

Because if 9-7 is mediocre, I don’t see how 3-4 can be good.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Consider the talent he was working with and then get back to me.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

So you make an excuse for Fewell, but when the entire 06 team goes on IR, that’s on Andy?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. He’s contradicting himself, but he won’t give up trying to defend it, because once he gives his analysis of something, it can’t be wrong.

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SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Who said anything about the ‘06 team in here? Andy Reid went 6-10 with an injured team, the back-ups failed to step up. You don’t see the Packers or Steelers completely bottom out because of injuries.

Perry Fewell took a 3-6 team whose starting QB was Trent freakin’ Edwards and brought their level of play up and coached them to a 3-4 record. They played their best football under Fewell, that is an undeniable fact.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

In an aroundabout way, you have blamed the 06 team’s failure on Reid. You said that 9-7 is mediocre (lol), but from 07-2010, the team averaged 9.6 wins. 10 wins doesn’t seem so average anymore.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

9-7 is mediocre.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

What about 10-6?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s not mediocre, that’s a good year. 8-8 and 9-7 are mediocre.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And Andy has averaged 10 (9.6 rounded up) wins from 2007-2010.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I see that we’re in a battle of cherry picked stats. I’ll take the larger sample size, thanks.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The sample that’s larger by 1 year but also includes a clear outlier that even you yourself just said wasn’t Andy’s fault? That “larger” sample?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

To be honest, I think your argument is all for naught. Unless franchise changes its ways, don’t see Lurie eating Reid’s salary for the next two years and risking hiring someone who almost assuredly will not bring as much consistent success…at least until after 2012.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

For clarity, I meant 07 as the year we went 10-6

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t see the Packers or Steelers completely bottom out because of injuries.

The Packers and Steelers have Rodgers and Roethlisberger.

Give Andy a QB like that and he would’ve gotten us a SB by now.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha

They’re not Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisberger (or Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyon Manning) They’re just not.

McNabb was a top 10 QB in his prime and he led us to NFCCG after NFCCG. If he was a top 3 QB (like the guys I mentioned), we might’ve just been able to get over that “hump.”

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Over the course of the entire decade, McNabb was the 3rd most productive QB of the decade. And it is widely accepted that Michael Vick is the most talented athlete to ever play QB.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Athletes

don’t necessarily make great QB’s. I think Vick is a very good QB. But not great like those other guys.

If you’re trying to tell me you’d take Vick over Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning (age not being considered) then you’re delusional.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I wouldn’t. But I think it’s ridiculous to cite Vick/McNabb as the reason we’re NOT winning.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not the only reason

But it has to be considered. This is a QB driven league. And the cream rises to the top.

Can Vick be a SB winning QB? Yeah, I think he can. But does he have a better shot at it than those other guys? No.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So Vick and McNabb are the reason we haven’t won a superbowl? Gotcha. You’re crazy.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But Andy Reid is?

Gotcha. You’re crazier.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, he is.

See: Promoting Juan Castillo to defensive coordinator despite never having coached defense in the NFL in a year where we’re “all in”.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

So one hiring mistake

Is enough to fire a guy like Andy?

How about all of the hiring’s he got right? Jim Washburn (DL leads league in sacks), Bobby April, Howard Mudd, Marty Morninhwig, Jim Johnson, Jim Harbaugh, etc. etc. The list goes on.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, pretty much.

You people keep making me out to be some Andy Reid hater, I think Andy Reid has done a fantastic job here in Philadelphia. He has given us a fantastic era of Eagles football. But I think his time is up.

The pinnacle of Andy Reid-ism was the Juan Castillo hiring. The arrogance and superiority complex was wholly apparent in that move. How are you going to make Juan Castillo your defensive coordinator in a year where YOU SAID “We’re all in”?! That is a MASSIVE gaffe and a fireable offense. He may very well have cost us our shot at a superbowl this year with that move. I think you underestimate just how big of a mistake that was.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you underestimate just how big of a mistake that was.

I think you’re overestimating it. It was one season, and, to Smitty’s point below, turnovers also had a lot to do with it.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, lets just blame everything on turnovers. Lets completely ignore Juan Castillo’s ineptitude. I’d expect nothing less from you.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets completely ignore Juan Castillo’s ineptitude

Whew, good thing I said that, or else your point would be total BS.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I’m sorry, did you acknowledge it?

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#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope, I said you’re overestimating it.

Making Castillo the DC was a bad decision, happy?

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

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#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The Juan Castillo move

did not cost us a shot at the SB. I’ve said it so many times. Turnovers are what cost us a chance at a SB. The defense was average. But our defense has been better than the Packers and Patriots defenses. As well as the Giants, Cowboys, and Saints defenses. The difference is we turned the ball over a lot more than those teams.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I swear to god…

OUR DEFENSE IS NOT GOOD. OUR RANKINGS ARE INFLATED BECAUSE WE BEAT UP ON REX GROSSMAN, SAM BRADFORD, MATT MOORE, MARK SANCHEZ AND STEPHEN MCGEE!

Are you forgetting that we were ripped to shreds by Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Eli Manning? Are you forgetting how Frank Gore, Michael Turner, Fred Jackson, Matt Forte and Marshawn Lynch destroyed us?

Had Andy Reid hired a competent defensive coordinator that didn’t take 12 weeks just to start to show promise, we would be in an entirely different position.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What's your point?

We beat up on teams like the Skins, Rams, Dolphins, Jets, and Cowboys (including Romo).

Packers beat up on teams like the Rams, Chiefs, Raiders, Bucs, Vikings, Broncos. But yet we’re still ranked ahead of them.

Patriots played teams like the Bills, Jets, Raiders, Chiefs, Colts, Skins, Broncos. But yet we’re still ranked ahead of them.

I could go on with the other teams I mentioned but I think you get the point. (or at least you should). All teams play their share of good offense and bad offenses. But if you use a big enough sample size (15 games) and you use the averages, you can get an idea of which defenses are better.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re delusional if you think Juan Castillo and our defense are worth a damn.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This is why arguing with you is pointless.

You get proven wrong, and then you either try to change the subject or completely ignore the response.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah philia

Idk why I’ve wasted so much of my time with this kid.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Our defense simply isn’t good. We’ve fallen on our faces anytime we’ve faced a good player.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Our defense simply isn’t good. We’ve fallen on our faces anytime we’ve faced a good player.

Is the Patriots defense good?

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No. They’re not. And that is why they’re going to lose in the playoffs just like the past two years.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No. They’re not. And that is why they’re going to lose in the playoffs just like the past two years.

What about the Packers? Packers and Patriots allowed the same amount of pts/gm and are the only 2 teams to allow 400 yds/gm.

I guess the Packers will lose in the playoffs also.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure will.

But they’ve actually got a decent scoring defense and they come up with turnovers.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha

you’re delusional if you’re going to ignore the facts and the stats. And that is that our defense has been better than a lot of the playoff-bound teams this year.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Good defenses don’t completely fail when they face good competition. Simple as that.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

And actually

Yes I would put a lot of the blame on Vick this year (and last year). Vick turned the ball over wayyyy too much this year. And turnovers are the single underlying factor in why we’ve been eliminated from the playoffs.

It’s not the LB’s. Or the safeties. Or clock mismanagement. Or “poor drafting” as you call it. It was turnovers. Plain and simple.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Vick and McNabb are not the problem.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Juan Castillo For HC

Spags for DC.

Castillo is a motivator, I think he’s an excellent coach in that respect. DC was over his head, his last defensive job was as a position coach at a high school in 1989. But I think it would be a shame to lose him, I think the motivator part of him is exactly what a good head coach needs to do and what I think Andy failed most at.

He’s now experienced in both offense and defense and having Spags and Marty as coordinators would take away a lot of the pressure, he would have two excellent sounding boards for any ideas he had. The players know him, like him and respect him.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

/face palm

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#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

There aren't a lot of candidates out there.

He wants an idea, here’s an idea. I think Castillo would be a better HC than a coordinator.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you should put the pipe down

"I was the first option on the play and the quarterback made a great throw. I landed on my shoulder and neck and blacked out for a little while, but I'm fine now." - Djacc

by Eagles02 on Dec 28, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn't Castillo be a good coach? What's your best idea at a replacement?

I’ve thoughtfully listed why I think he might be a candidate for the job.

Your best response is to call me a drug user? What a goddamn asshole you are.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You did see our defense this year, right? And you have heard Juan Castillo talk, right?

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why I'm not asking him to remain our DC

And bring in someone very well qualified to run the defense in Spags.

And what do I care about how he talks? That is maybe the last thing I care about in a coach, he’s adequately communicated in the NFL for 16 seasons now.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm… Juan Castillo coached a mediocre OL and defense but he’s a good coach? Yeah…

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he's done fine on the OLine...

…considering what Andy has given him over the years, especially what is fresh in our minds. He’s always had one or two good lineman, but lately the rest has been piecemeal, this isn’t back in the early 2000s when Reid built his teams through his lines and drafted a lineman every year. His lines were good enough to make McNabb one of the top 5 QBs of the last decade and Westbrook into maybe the most exciting running back we’ve ever had and paved the way for Shady’s blossoming career.

Once again, I’m not picking him for his defensive prowess. How many HC’s become one without ever touching the defensive side of the ball? Quite a few. How many HCs become one without ever touching the offense? Quite a few also. Castillo doing both is actually a rarity that I’m not particularly inclined to hold against him since so many NFL HCs actually have no defensive experience to hold against them in the first place.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd go Pete Carmichael Jr.

I think he is a good coach. He was the Saints’ QB coach that help Drew Brees become Breesus in NO from ‘06-’09. Then he was named the offensive coordinator in ’09 when Saints won the Super Bowl and currently still there.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"

by Imp on Dec 28, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Everyone that keeps calling for Andy to be fired

just expects the new guy to come in here and lead this team to the SB. Unfortunately, what people don’t realize is there are a ton more of the Lane Kiffin’s, Josh McDaniel’s, Raheem Morris’, Tony Sparano’s, Jim Zorn’s, etc., etc. than there are Jon Gruden’s and Mike Tomlin’s.

Finding that next SB winning coach is A LOT harder than people think.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

Those guys didn’t exactly take over great teams, failed point. The Eagles are very clearly more talented than the Raiders, Broncos, Bucs, Dolphins and Redskins.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point

But the point is still valid. Bringing in a new coach is no guarantee that they’ll pull all the right strings, let alone pull the strings in time to be successful in his first year.

Another factor to consider is if Andy was fired, do you think he won’t get phone calls from 10+ teams within the first hour of the news breaking? Andy would be scooped up within days of being fired (if he wanted to coach again right away).

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 28, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps Andy and his devilish good looks will replace Gruden on MNF while Gruden heads to St L and Spags comes here as a DC.

I joke….

If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby

by GreenInBaltimore on Dec 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

“Cough, cough… Listen, that guy is a heckuva football player.”

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

In the National Football League

If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby

by GreenInBaltimore on Dec 28, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

There have been 20 coaches that have stayed with one team 10+ seasons.

Lombardi – Won Superbowl
Don Shula – Won Superbowl
Chuck Noll- Won Superbowl
Bill Walsh – Won Superbowl
Tom Landy – Won Superbowl
Hank Stram – Won Superbowl
Bud Grant – 4 SB appearances
Bill Belichick – Won Superbowl
Joe Gibbs – Won Superbowl
Weeb Ewbank – Won Superbowl
Bill Cowher – Won Superbowl
John Madden – Won Superbowl
Mike Ditka – Won Superbowl
Marv Levy – 4 SB appearances
Dan Reeves – 4 SB appearances
Mike Shanahan – Won Superbowl
Marty Schottenheimer – 0 SB appearance
Jim Mora – 0 SB appearance
Jeff Fisher – 1 SB appearance
Andy Reid – 1 SB appearance

13 out of 20 have won superbowls. 3(Levy, Grant, and Reeves) out of the 7 that didn’t, each went to 4 of them. That leaves Reid, Schottenheimer, Fisher, and Mora as the least successful coaches that have been with a team over 10 years. Saints won a Superbowl 13 years after Mora left which is a long time but no longer than the time Reid’s been here. Turner’s Chargers have been more successful( 2 divisional and 1 AFC Champ appearance) vs Shotty’s(1 divisional and 1 wildcard appearance). Titans(8-7) will finish with a better record than Fisher’s 6-10 in his last year. Coaches that have been kept by teams 10+ years have given those teams a damn good reason to stick with them longer. Andy Reid is not on that level or at least hasn’t been for 7 years.

by Route36 on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think you made some very good points, but I guess I just have a hard time believing they WILL fire him. I actually just got done writing a piece about why they will keep him around.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

Reid has never failed to reach playoffs for consecutive seasons. His track record says ee will be back next year.

I like turtles.

by Bleediots on Dec 28, 2011 1:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

His recent track record would also suggest we’ll do nothing once we get there.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

For those who fear the unknown.

My main memory of Andy Reid’s hiring as head coach was the fact that I hated it. I kept thinking, Banner and Lurie are idiots to hire a no-name who had never even been a coordinator to coach my beloved Eagles. My suspicion was that it was a money saving move. It turns out it was a good ride for a while, but even the best roller coaster at the best amusement park gets a little old after the 13th time on it.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry but for people who say we rank this or that in defense, ranks don’t mean shit. These players are human beings, not just data put in a computer and averaged out. They have their ups and downs, consistency and inconsistency. Proof is the patriots, they have such a shitty defense rank, but their defense makes the plays when they need them. The only stats that truly reflect a defense is the ppg and turnover. Other than that, don’t be a rank whore.

by smoothskittle on Dec 28, 2011 5:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

O

you could make a shit list for any coach/fo/organization. hopefully you cry when AR does NOT get fired.

"Watching Vick last season, to me, was like finally having Jordan on MY team."
-D3Kieth

by fr33thinker on Dec 28, 2011 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

Packers.

Make a list of complaints about the Packers even remotely similar to this. Do it.

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#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Draft busts since 07

Brian Brohm, Pat Lee, Justin Harrell, Aaron Rouse, Mike Neal (if Jarretts a bust then so is Neal), Jeremy Thompson, Allen Barbre.

And that’s just the draft from rounds 1-4.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Every team has busts. We have more. You can’t just list busts from every team and think you’re proving a valid point.

How about Aaron Rodgers, BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, James Starks, Nick Collins, Tramon Williams, Greg Jennings and Brian Bulaga? Our draft successes don’t even begin to compare with that list.

And how about the biggest difference: The Packers hired Dom Capers, the Eagles hired Juan Castillo.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

How about

Todd Herremans, Trent Cole, DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Lesean Mccoy, Brent Celek, Danny Watkins.

Have the Packers drafted better than us? Probably. Are their drafts head and shoulders better than ours? Nope.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they have. There’s a reason they’re 14-1 and we’re 7-8.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

LeSean McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Jason Avant, Brent Celek, Todd Herremans, Jason Kelce, Danny Watkins, Jamaal Jackson, Trent Cole, Mike Patterson, Brian Rolle, Kurt Coleman, Alex Henery. We don’t draft well? We’ve certainly had a lot of bad decisions lately, but a good chunk of our core is made up of drafted players.

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by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Putting Brian Rolle and Kurt Coleman on a list of draft successes is certainly premature. And Coleman isn’t even a good player.

And that isn’t even a good list, a team with that core wouldn’t amount to anything. No QBs, no LBs, no safeties, no corners.

Compare that to:
Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn, James Starks, John Kuhn, Jermichael Finley, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Chad Clifton, Bryan Bulaga, Scott Wells, Josh Sitton, BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, AJ Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Sam Shields, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

You're comparing us

to the best team in the league. That’s 1/32nd of the league. They’ve had better recent drafts than us. There’s no question. That’s why they’re the champs. But we’ve had better drafts than probably 2/3 of the league.

Btw, you list Clifton and Bulaga. But I think you have to include Peters in our “draft” list. No, he wasn’t drafted by us, but he was a big part of that ‘09 draft. And (just as a side note) I’d take Peters and Herremans over Clifton and Bulaga any day. Herremans vs. Bulaga is prob debatable, but if they come as a pair I’m taking ours over their’s.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 29, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Peters was not drafted by us therefore he is not on a list of drafted players.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

We used

draft picks to get him. Draft picks that we otherwise would’ve used on college players. Draft picks that we could’ve hit on players or missed on players. I think it’s safe to say we hit a home run with those picks.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 29, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Did we draft Jason Peters? Yes or no.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

No

But if I assigned a grade to those draft picks that we gave up. They’d all get an A+.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 29, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

And compare us to just about ANY team and we won’t have any better drafts. Our drafts have been terrible, that’s my entire point. Our drafts have been Redskin-like lately.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

And we also had the same record as them last year.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

14-1

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, didn’t you just guarantee they would lose in the playoffs because their defense was awful?

So they’re 14-1 but their also a lock to lose in the playoffs?

If they’re certainly going to lose in the playoffs, then they probably aren’t that much better than us.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m done arguing with him. First off, I don’t think Eagles will rid of Reid. Secondly, I already stated it earlier…he doesn’t give up on his arguments, which tend to contradict themselves.

Bleed-Green.com
SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Lol

That comment is 100% accurate about everything. So rec’d. I’m going to try really hard to follow your lead and just let this go.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So they’re 14-1 but their also a lock to lose in the playoffs?

Yeah. They’re getting injured all over the place, their offensive line is falling apart, their running game isn’t being effective and their defense is crippled by injuries and it’s been ineffective. They’re not going to get past the Saints in the playoffs.

And they’re at least making the playoffs, we can’t even do that so I’m not sure where you’re getting this “They’re not that much better than us” thing from.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 28, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

We can’t even make the playoffs, but we came a fraction short of winning the NFC East this year. For all your talk about the minimal differences between averages (the whole 9.6 wins average thing), I’d think you’d be able to compare an Eagles team that’s won three straight and barely missed playoffs to a Packers team you clearly don’t think much of right now, which also contradicts your argument that Green Bay is significantly better than Philly.

Ugh. Seriously, start thinking about what you want to argue about.

Bleed-Green.com
SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 28, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol
They’re getting injured all over the place
You don’t see the Packers or Steelers completely bottom out because of injuries.

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 28, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

They’re 14-1, I’m pretty sure they haven’t bottomed out. But maybe I’m just crazy.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Thats cause the injuries happened later in the year

if they all happen week one what happens

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 29, 2011 6:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Look at last year, they were crippled by injuries and still won the superbowl.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Green Bay is significantly better than Philadelphia, when completely healthy they’re far and away the best team in the NFL and they’re still dangerous (albeit not nearly as much) when they’re banged up.

The Eagles aren’t even good enough to make the playoffs.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions  

A fraction short of winning the NFC East?

I think you mean “A miracle to win the NFC East”.

The Curse of Lombardi
#TeamFireAndyReid
"Stats are for fantasy and losers. Winning is an attitude."

by d-jackfan10 on Dec 29, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions  

It was a miracle. But it became a fraction. You can’t tell me they didn’t come up just short of winning the division this year. Scenarios were crazy at one point, but not by the time they were finally officially eliminated.

Bleed-Green.com
SB Nation Philly

by kingmcnabb5 on Dec 29, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

The Eagles and Packers have both given up 318 points this year, and the Packers have given up 80 more yards per game than the Eagles.

Some datapoints.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by alcatraz0109 on Dec 29, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

What about the aging players

When someone mentions the decrease in Andy’s wins over the past 3-4-5 years. I don’t hear anyone mention the aging players he was dealing with also. Donovan was aging and skills decreasing, Dawk was aging, Tra Thomas and Jon Runyon were aging, Sheldon Brown was aging, Reggie Brown was aging, Kevin Curtis became injury prone, concussions and injury began to bug Westbrook. Andy was still making the playoffs with an over the hill gang. Seeing this, the organization began to draft good young players. And don’t even mention the death of Jim Johnson. That was a major setback too…..but even with McDermott the Eagles still made the playoffs. Compared to 3-4 years ago the Eagles have a completely new team. How many teams were able to do this and still make the playoffs? Not too many. This year was a learning experience and as usual, the Eagles will bounce back to provide many more winning seasons….with a SB included. I have that much confidence in the team. But I know I’m probably alone in this thinking……………….just my opinion.
Gooooooooooo Eagles…………..

by Virgoman3 on Dec 29, 2011 12:44 AM EST reply actions  

You're not alone

I agree this team is set up perfectly to make another serious run at this thing next year. There are only two upcoming FA’s that must be re-signed (Djax/Mathis). One of Dunlap and Justice will also need to be signed. But other than that, the rest are pretty easily replaceable (or could be re-signed on the cheap). Eagles have cap space to work with along with 3 top 50 picks and 10 (or is it 11?) draft picks overall.

With everything that’s in place, I don’t think it’s time to blow up the coaching staff and start fresh. The roster is built to give this team one more year with the current core. After next year, you’ll have Vick’s guaranteed money all-but gone. Aging players like Cole and Herremans are signed through 2013. Peters through 2014 (he should retire an Eagle anyway; but he’s aging). Celek through 2016, but dead $ expires after 2013.

Reinforce the defense, keep the offense in place, and they’ll have a chance to be pretty damn good.

by Smitty2K3 on Dec 29, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

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