Jason Babin Is The League's Most Valuable Sack Artist
by JasonB on Dec 22, 2011 11:01 AM EST
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintESPN's Peter Keating did a recent analysis in an attempt to determine the most valuable sack artist in the NFL. The idea was to chart every sack in the league this season and weight them according to how "clutch" they were. This was done by assigning an expected points saved to each sack.
For instance.... Take a sack that occurs on the opponents 20 yard line vs one that happens on your own 20. Obviously, when a defense gets a sack on their own 20, the offense had been in position to score, so that weights higher. Also, a sack that creates a fumble is obviously weighted heavily as well.
When they compiled this data, Jason Babin came out on top with 26.9 expected points saved. It's significant because the data suggests that Babin isn't racking up meaningless sacks. His sacks are keeping points off the board and coming at significant times.
Certainly the best example of this would be the late November game against the Giants. Down 17-10 with just over one minute to play, Eli Manning drove New York down to the Eagles 21 after a 47 yard pass to Victor Cruz. On the next play, Babin hit Eli from the blindside, knocking the ball loose in the process. The Eagles recovered and the game was over. That's about as clutch as a sack as you can have.
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So, we need advanced stats to tell us the league leader in the number of sacks is also the leage leader in the value of those sacks? Hmmmmmmmm.
"Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body."
― Seneca
Hum...
When I think about the “unvaluable” sacks from Ware against us, it’s not an obvious result. You can obtain 20 sacks during a season during meaningless time. I prefer to get a DE that get 10 valuable sacks.
What is great with Babin is that he has a lot of sacks AND they are valuable ones
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by FrenchEagles on Dec 22, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
i was wondering where they would rank ware, just for the reason of those 4 worthless sacks vs us. it seemed like each of them was for a 0.5 yard loss that didnt really slow us down much.
by RogerPodacter on Dec 22, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I know
that a lot of people hate on Babin because he strictly plays the sack and pretty much ignores the run game but this guy is a BEAST. He thrives in this system and I for one am very glad to have him. Put him in on passing situations and put Graham in for running situations and they form the perfect tandem. As seen from the Jets game, he can rush the passer from anywhere. He’s a valuable asset to our d-line and this post shows that. The Italian Stallion will break Strahans record this year count on it
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so you think
he will get 5 sacks in the last 2 games? we can hope for 2 or 3 and about 6-8 tackles.
I would much rather see him with 12 sacks right now and 90 tackeles. Just my opinion though but I will take what he has done because well we have to
I think
he only needs 4.5 but yeah it is very possible. He’s gotten 6 in the last 2 games so it isn’t all that farfetched
Born in North Carolina; raised a Philly fan
The blood in my veins is red but when you cut me it turns GREEN!!
Xbox Gamertag is Bleed Greenery for anyone interested in some Madden or Call of Duty
by CarolinaGreen on Dec 22, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Whats wrong with a pure pass rusher having the single season SACK record. Also nobody will forget White and his 21 sacks in 12 games.
by Anders Jensen on Dec 22, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
He could get 4 bs the skins alone. He’s on a tear right now. Tyron smith is a little banged up. A couple isn’t put of the question this week
Shady is the man.
by ProtoTyler on Dec 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't want babin to break any records
The players that hold those records were complete players. Babin is not. I feel like babin wiuld be stealing those records without earning them. Example: I don’t see babin stopping a run play after first moving two lineman out of the way with one arm(r.white,eagles saints playoff game, early 90’s).
by Saidrick on Dec 22, 2011 11:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
But its not true that he isn’t a complete player. His job isn’t just to rush the QB, its to force RB inside for DTs and LBs to tackle them.
Eagles: Suck But still. #KeepAndyReid
Flyers: On a nice roll
Phillies: Sigh
So why is it that when you put Babin on a regular line, with regular DE responsibilities, that he can barely crack an NFL roster?
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Because this scheme plays to his strength.
And he currently plays on a regular line, with regular DE responsibilities. He just handles them differently.
Eagles: Suck But still. #KeepAndyReid
Flyers: On a nice roll
Phillies: Sigh
At least make sense of the conversation man. Of course this scheme plays to HIS strenghts. Those are his only strenghts. Thats the whole point of this conversation. He ISNT a complete player. He played out of this scheme for years and barely cracked the roster. He’s is awesome at one thing. Thats great! But he is NOT a 3 down DE. His game is not complete. If it was, he could play on any line in the NFL and excel just like he does here. You can be a specialist in one thing in just about everything in life, but that does not mean you excel at everything *(ie the definition of complete).
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not earning them?
If he gets the record, he earned it. It’s a sack record. Sacks are all that matters for the record.
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I don’t like it when great records are taken by not great players. I think we should put an asterisk next to babin: he never gave up on getting to the qb, even when the rb had the ball.
by Saidrick on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Babin is a one trick pony, but as Jason said in another thread, he does that one trick REALLY well.
If we actually get some competent linebackers and playcalling behind the DL next season, I would love to see Babin and the Wide-9 return. A lot of Babin’s run problems wouldn’t be problems if our LBs could handle the scheme.
Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!
Wasn't Trotter a one trick pony
but with the right DC, boy was ever a neat trick!
"Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body."
― Seneca
There is nothing wrong with a one-trick pony IF you utilise him in the right way (which the Eagles have not been doing for 75% of the season), and IF he’s bought at the right price.
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Steven Tulloch is pretty much that. A good straight ahead run stopper, awful in coverage, maybe just average getting to the edges.
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Which is why he was such a great compliment to Babin…
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
imagine how many sacks Babin would have if he had been used the right way for 100% of the season!!! Like, is 18 is only 25% of his productivity, that means he’d have like maybe 54!!!
"Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body."
― Seneca
You’re an idiot.
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
haha
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Dec 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think sack value is based on what down it is
The 20 yard thing can go either way. Yeah you can save points on one end, but you can score points on the other( safety).
A better way to value sacks is by figuring out how many sacks happened on a third down. Then add bonus points if the game is close ( ten points or less) and add bonus points for be able to get sacks on the road.
by Saidrick on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
i couldnt find if lost yardage was considered also. This is somewhat of a gift from the QB, but it would take meaning away hollow .5 yard sacks, and give credit to guys who catch a QB on the 7th step.
Also, as it seemed they were counting QB points in this, the Vick 5 steps back from shotgun is scary, but he gets credit for getting back to the line.
still selfish
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
by philiafan14364 on Dec 22, 2011 11:52 AM EST reply actions
Yea we should trade him to jacksonville for a couple of 1st rounders
by con-vick on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I dislike stats that measure “clutch” because I don’t think that’s an inherent skill. I don’t think this has been studied in-depth for the NFL, but in baseball it’s been mathematically proven that there is very little if any consistency from year to year in clutch performance, which indicates that it is most likely not a skill, or at least not a significant one. I strongly doubt that this is any different for the NFL. I think it’s telling that ESPN is coming out with clutch-measuring stats such as this and their new QB metric, while Football Outsiders, which has been in the business of advanced metrics for much longer, is not really focusing on clutch performance at all.
I forgot the terms of his contract...
So I was sort of on the ’ I don’t like him because he can’t do anything else’ train and it didn’t feel like his sacks were all that importatn. But for only 5 million a year? I’d take 15+ sacks especially when it’s been shown that they are at critical points in the game.
On a side note, I freaking hate ESPN ‘insider’ news. What a fucking tease.
Insider
Well, that’s why I post all the relevant info here!
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Go ahead, get mad because you can’t get a burger at Arbys.
You knew walking in the joint what to expect, don’t change your expectations after they look at you retardedly.
I would like to thank my hands for being so great, for allowing me to type this post.
by corn on the kolb on Dec 22, 2011 12:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Why so much hate on Babin?
I mean, he came back here, he was asked to rush the passer, he rushes the passer better than anyone in the league and people are talking about putting an asterisk next to his name if he gets the record cause he’s not a complete player? What type of sense does that make?
“Oh lets put an asterisk next to his name on a sack record because he’s not as good playing the run.”
Shut Up.
The emperor isn't wearing any clothes
We’re not hating on him, but we also don’t think he is all that great.
And NO he does not rush the passer better than anyone else in the league . The scheme makes it very easy for him to rush the passer. Don’t confuse that with skill.
Without cole, Babin would have no chance at the record.
by Saidrick on Dec 23, 2011 3:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
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