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Ranaan Review: Just How Good Was Vince Young?

EAST RUTHERFORD, NJ - NOVEMBER 20:  Vince Young #9 of the Philadelphia Eagles runs off the field after the Eagles won 17-10 against the New York Giants at MetLife Stadium on November 20, 2011 in East Rutherford, New Jersey.  (Photo by Patrick McDermott/Getty Images)

This year, veteran Eagles beat writer and current Comcast sports NFL columnist Jordan Raanan will be joining us every week with a review of the previous Sunday's Eagles game. This week he offers his notes and thoughts on the Eagles win over the Giants

The numbers for Vince Young in his first start in over a year were unspectacular. He was 23-of-36 passing for 258 yards, two touchdowns and three interceptions. More A.J. Feeleyish in this offense than Donovan McNabb.

But there were two Vince Youngs to evaluate. The first was the one that couldn't get on the same page with Riley Cooper or complete a swing pass in the first half. The second was the one who perfectly read the blitz, quickly located his hot reads and shredded the Giants in the second half.

Young finished 15-of-18 for 169 yards with a touchdown and interception in the second half alone. And the interception was more a product of Cooper losing the ball than a bad decision.

Even more impressive, he ended the Eagles' fourth-quarter nightmares with an 18-play, 80-yard game-winning drive where there were six third-down conversions. Five of those were via Young, four via the pass. (Shockingly, Ronnie Brown converted the other.)

So I went back and examined those five Young third-down conversions. And they were even more impressive than I originally thought Here's what I saw upon further review:

Star-divide

Play 1: 3rd and 10 from PHI 33

With 9:30 left to play, this didn't seem like much but a nice conversion at the time. Little did we know, it was the start of something special. The Giants rushed four and Young, on third and long, had all day to throw. He looked to DeSean Jackson deep down the left sideline, then tight end Brent Celek running an intermediate route on the same side. With nothing there, Young went to the next progression, Cooper, who was isolated on the right side and running across the middle. He drilled it between the linebacker and corner, hitting Cooper between the numbers for a professional first down.

Play 2: 3rd-and-3 from NYG 42

This might have been the best play Young made on the drive. Clay Harbor went in motion, creating a three-receiver set to Young's right. The Giants came with a blitz, rushing six, including middle linebacker Mark Herzlich right up the middle. Herzlich came charging untouched and Ronnie Brown tried to step in front of Young at the last second to make the block. But Herzlich leaped and was just inches in front of the quarterback's face. Young still managed to sidearm the ball around him out wide to an open Harbor in the flat. Young was taken to the turf on the play, but still managed to move the chains. It was a tremendous little third-down play and throw.

Play 3: 3rd-and-1 from NYG 27

Andy Reid called for the QB sneak. Young appeared to get stopped behind the line but picked up the first down with a great second push. You can clearly see his legs never stop moving despite his momentum being stuffed. It was a great effort.

Play 4: 3rd-and-4 from NYG 23

On this play, the Giants rushed six, blitzing off both edges. With the Eagles outmanned 6 vs. 5, the blindside rusher was unblocked. But Young recognized Giants cornerback Corey Webster coming from the slot on the right side, and quickly hit Jackson in the flat for 10 yards and another first down. It was the perfect quick read.

Play 5: 3rd-and-8 from NYG 8

This was the game-winner. And on this third down, the Eagles faced their nemesis, the red zone. The Giants covered with a zone defense. Herzlich was lined up on the stronside, near tight end Brent Celek. As Herzlich moved a touch to his left to bump Celek off his route, it opened a slim, one-second window to Cooper running a crossing pattern in the back of the end zone from the slot. Young drilled it in there without hesitation for the score and the Eagles win.

Forget about the slow start. And the three interceptions. These five plays alone made Young's start successful and impressive.

Other Notable Observations:

• This is pretty much all you need to know about the Eagles' cornerbacks right now. Asante Samuel was targeted just once by Eli Manning on Sunday night. He knocked the pass out of the hands of Hakeem Nicks. Nnamdi Asomugha was targeted five times. Manning was 2-for-4 with a 24-yard touchdown to Victor Cruz and a holding penalty against the prized free agent signing. Manning's other 30 passes attacked the Eagles' nickel corner, Joselio Hanson, and linebackers. That's pretty much the same philosophy every opponent has taken against the Eagles this season.

• According to NBC broadcaster Chris Collinworth, the Giants players were sorry Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was hurt and Hanson was in as the nickel corner. That's pretty much all you need to know about DRC's play this season. Pro Football Focus ranks DRC 90th out of 102 cornerbacks this season. That's better than Asomugha, who ranked 97th.

• The Birds' entire defensive line (from Trent Cole to Juqua Parker) was off the charts Sunday night, constantly getting in the backfield and even tracking back to make several crackling tackles. Nobody was more impressive than Cullen Jenkins. The offseason acquisition had three quarterback hurries, a tackles for a loss and half a sack. By my count, he disrupted five pass plays in the second quarter alone.

• The Eagles stuck to their defensive line rotation more than usual. The backup unit (Darryl Tapp, Derek Landri, Trevor Laws and Juqua Parker) was even sprinkled on the field during the Giants' final drive. Landri recovered the game-clinching fumble. It looked like a concerted effort by defensive coordinator Juan Castillo to keep his D-line fresh late into the fourth quarter.

Akeem Jordan was credited with just one tackle but had maybe his best game as an Eagle, consistently plugging running holes.

• The Eagles' tackles (Jason Peters and Todd Herremans) were dominant against the best group of pass rushers in the NFL. They allowed just one real pressure when Jason Pierre-Paul beat Herremans around the edge. Otherwise Pierre-Paul, Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck barely sniffed Young on the other 36 called pass plays.

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Thank you

Finally, an Eagles fan who actually noticed the way Vince Young improved on his slow start — which was no surprise, given how little practice he’d had or how long it had been since he’d started a regular season game.

I kept reading about how Vince was “awful” and “underwhelming,” as though the second half didn’t happen, and as though his receivers weren’t at least partly to blame for two of the INTs.

75-37-5. Now GTFO.

by Peter Bean on Nov 22, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think anyone denies that he improved in the 2nd half. But at the same time, it’s not unfair to look at the game as a whole.

I mean, it was a fairly dramatic split.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

But I think looking at it as a whole misses the point. He was beyond rusty in the first half. But by the second, he improved dramatically, culminating in that last drive. The second half VY is the one he can be.

Eagles: Who knows what this team is. #TeamKeepAndyReid
Flyers: On a nice roll
Phillies: Sigh

by bdawk4ever on Nov 22, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, I think that remains to be seen. Blaming the first half on rust does seem like a valid excuse, but unless we saw him perform at the second half level for a few games, it’s hard to say that the second proves that he can play that way all the time.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Or he can be like he was in the first half as well

blaming it on rust is a cop out. He doesn’t suddenly get that much better because the “rust comes off”

by slandog on Nov 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually that would make PERFECT sense.

"...has been timed at 4.39 in the 40-yard dash, and owning a 40.5-inch vertical jump and a 440-pound max bench press, 605-pound squat and a power-clean of 374 pounds." Could you imagine what it would be like to have somone like this on your team???? Oh we do??? His name is Bruce Carter??? Hmmmm....... interesting.

by Feeling Blue & Silver on Nov 22, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The 1st Half Looks Better

If you add the completion to Desean Jackson for 50+ yds (And potential other plays that come after that) and take away the tipped pass interception. Then it looks more like this

9-19
140 yds
1-1

I know you can’t take away tipped balls and all that stuff, but when you say VY was playing like crap the 1st half you overstate it. Plus, as I’ve said several times, the whole offense played like crap the 1st half. How many rush yds for Mccoy?

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that’s true. That completion would certainly have helped things.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

nice point about where they were passing. its obvious to us what the weakness of the team is – LB play and nickel/dime coverage.
its no surprise then that opposing teams also know this and attack there.

we got lucky with a bunch of dropped passes, but then again, we had more than our fair share of stupid mistakes (at least 2 of the 3 INTs).

how much of an impact did Hanson vs DRC really have? we all know that DRC hasnt been great in the slot. was putting hanson in there really the difference maker? or just a factor with improved play as a team?

by RogerPodacter on Nov 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

imo

Its the former. Drc is just uncomfortable there. Hanson isn’t. Next year samuel needs to go and drc moves outside. And the rankings on Aso seem real high. He hasn’t been THAT bad, has he?

by sandiegoeaglesfan on Nov 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m pretty certain that’s what will happen. Samuel will be shipped out and Nnamdi/DRC will start with Hanson in the slot.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he really has not. In fact, normally Asante samuel is targeted more but Eli is afraid to throw at him because Samuel owns him. Other qbs have thrown more to asante’s side. Nnamdi has not been great, but I see it as more a reflection of how Juan has tried to use him than him as a player.

by PhilsForever on Nov 23, 2011 12:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Hanson did make some good open field tackles. Obviously not DRC’s strong suit.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont get how Nnamdi is ranked that low. Have 96 other corners really performed better than him? I know he’s out of his element but still, he is not that bad. Being the 97th corner would make him a liability, which he clearly is not.

"Get 'Em"
PSN Username: FlyEagles15....MW3!!!!

by FlyEagles15 on Nov 23, 2011 12:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It’s a shame that Vince Young is such a headcase. The dude has a flair for the dramatic (see: Texas v. USC), but he can’t get out of his own way.

by Eagle Fly Free on Nov 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

Good Article, Especially For VY Fans

Like Myself. I thought the 1st couple quarters were better than everyone is saying, but I guess it realistically could have been 12-10 if the Giants had capitalized on the mistakes that VY made. However, I will keep stating, since when does Mccoy get shut down for the whole game? VY pretty much had little to no help from the playmakers until the final drive (by playmakers I meand the skill players). For example, the underthrown ball was bad but if Desean fights for it is not a pick. Same with the endzone pick. And the ball of teh TE’s helmet was a good read and throw. Not much a QB can do there

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:21 PM EST reply actions  

"since when does Mccoy get shut down for the whole game?"

probably when the starting QB is out, one of the starting WRs is out, and the RB is known for being a dominant beast so he gets exclusively gameplanned against.

and he still had 100 yards.

by smeagle on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Point. But...

He was extra dancy in the hole and this isn’t the first game that MCCOY has been targeted in. If you take away the 60 yd run when the game was pretty much over anyway then he had about 20 carries for 40 yds. 40YDS!!! from the running game?

Be honest, If I had told you coming in that Mccoy would have less than 50yds with less than 2 minutes in the game, you would have thought the team got blown out. But instead, the defense played great and they weren’t on the field too long b/c of VYs long drives

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

yea but

this happens often and McCoy is better whn it is time to finish them off, they all knew he was going to run and he ran it down their throats to finish them off. They did well all together but when they knew for sure it was coming they didnt stop him

by DcEagles29 on Nov 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It can happen when the defense practiced to stop McCoy....

All week before the game the NY players were saying the way to beat the Eagles was to stop McCoy….which they did most of the game. But like ALL pro bowl caliber running backs, you can hold them only for so long and once in a while they’ll bust lose for a long gain….which McCoy did. I give the credit to Andy to for not giving up on the running game. Not only did McCoy bust lose for a couple of long gains but Brown and Hall also had pretty runs.

by Virgoman3 on Nov 22, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Is that the Best Picture

They could find of VY? He looks like an offensive lineman in that picture

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

you linked the cardinals drive from last week

here’s the VY drive

you must have gotten the url after the videos changed

I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
R2C2!
RIP JJ

by sports00fan00 on Nov 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Great article. I too went back and watched that drive closely, and I saw they same thing: VY was on the money. He made quick, good decisions.

I’m not worried about how he’ll do against the Patriots.

Eagles: Who knows what this team is. #TeamKeepAndyReid
Flyers: On a nice roll
Phillies: Sigh

by bdawk4ever on Nov 22, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

Especially considering that Pats defense is worse than the GIants.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I Am

I love VY but he usually struggles when he’s playing very well coached teams (Chargers, Patriots, Steelers). For him to play his second game against a Belliceck (Spelling) Defense with the playoffs on the line?

Plus you know Brady is gonna put uppoints. He’s gonna need some help from the running game. I guess that’s why he gets paid and I believe he can be successful, but I don’t feel as confident about it as I did the Giants

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but that Belichick defense has been pretty bad this year.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Not Sure what the statistics say

But that defense is stingy with points. They have only allowed one opponent over 30 and they made a couple QBs (Rivers, Campbell, Palko) look really really bad and they can score quickly if you’re not careful.

Lets hope the running game is working. If it is, then there is a high change that VY does well.

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You consider Campbell and Palko good QB’s?

by Ben16 on Nov 22, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Their defense isn't the greatest

but their offense is pretty good and the Eagles defense isn’t that great either. They did put together a few good games, Cowboys and Giants, but have also crumbled against some dreadful teams. If Brady scores on this defense I think it’s going to be very difficult for the offense to keep up.

If the Eagles win against the Pats it’s because of the defense.

by slandog on Nov 22, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Vick

will start if healthy

by smeagle on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

And, he absolutely should

I’m a VY fan, but also respectful of the fact that Vick is the starter and for good reason – he’s an outstanding QB. VY is only here for a year, and I hope that works out extremely well both for the Eagles and for VY. So far, so good.

by JimR on Nov 22, 2011 4:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

100% Completely Agree with you

I’m a VY fan too but if Vick is healthy he should get the start. Vick has not played as well as last year but he’s still playing at high level.

by Prosado22 on Nov 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice touch on some short throws

Sometimes Vick throws it too hard, maybe out of the habit of relying on his arm strength. VY looked pretty good in that second half, to be sure.

by donniethelion on Nov 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

It’s true that he wasn’t gunning passes in. In some cases, specifically the INTs intended for DeSean and Cooper, I think that hurt him. But it probably also helped him put some touch on other passes.

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by JasonB on Nov 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

He definitely could have used some heat behind a lot of his throws. Off the top of my head, floater to Cooper which led to the int. way too much time for the defender to get there (a half second too early at that) and cause the deflection. The other was the screen to Celek during the final drive. He floated it to Celek for an 8 yard gain when it would have easily been a first if the ball got there quicker.

But I can understand your first start in awhile you arent gunna throw with a whole lot of confidence anyway.

"Get 'Em"
PSN Username: FlyEagles15....MW3!!!!

by FlyEagles15 on Nov 23, 2011 12:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

add another 50 yards on that jackson penalty

and the final stat line looks pretty darn solid.

Freel free to email me anytime at behindthesteelcurtain@gmail.com with questions, suggestions, complaints, etc, or to just say what's up. -Michael Bean (Blitz)

by Michael Bean on Nov 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

add this, take away that

you start playing that game and everyone looks pretty good

by jimb0z on Nov 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

That play shouldn't have come off anyway

The penalties shouldn’t offset and cancel a 50 yard play when the other foul is after the play. Counting it like that is utterly stupid.

TEXAS FIGHT

by Darklust on Nov 22, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

yea it was just a weird loophole in the rules that will definitely be fixed

by ieatcrayons on Nov 23, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

So JasonB, How do you really feel?

You have been surprisingly supportive of VY lately. I t hought you wanted the Giants to eat his guts out and for him to have a horrible game but the Eagles to still win? You almost go the second part of that if it wasn’t for the DRIVE THAT SAVED THE SEASON!

I’m not trying to taunt you, I’m just genuinely interested in your opinion

by UTDEEZY08 on Nov 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST reply actions  

The turning point

seemed to be VY’s TD pass near the end of the second quarter. After that, he was nearly perfect. Even the second half INT was at least half Cooper’s fault for not battling for the ball. The pass was no more than 18 inches under-thrown, which is a awfully small margin of error on a loft pass.

by JimR on Nov 22, 2011 4:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

more PFF crap

Nnamdi the 97th corner? lol get out of town

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Nov 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST reply actions  

That’s better than Asomugha, who ranked 97th.

There’s 96 corners better than Nnamdi? I’m calling bullshit.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
"WHY IS THIS PINK-HAIRED BITCH A CAR?!"

by Imp on Nov 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST reply actions  

The thing that everyone seems to miss about stats is that they aren't saying that that 96 corners ARE better Nnamdi

just that for whatever reason 96 corners have had less issues on the field this season.

"...has been timed at 4.39 in the 40-yard dash, and owning a 40.5-inch vertical jump and a 440-pound max bench press, 605-pound squat and a power-clean of 374 pounds." Could you imagine what it would be like to have somone like this on your team???? Oh we do??? His name is Bruce Carter??? Hmmmm....... interesting.

by Feeling Blue & Silver on Nov 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

this year there are 96 corners performing better

meaning 96 corners who are being used in a much better way

by 1993Heel on Nov 23, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Still

His 2 int alone should put him top 50. I can only think of 2 TD thrown against him ( I’m sure there’s more I’m not thinking of). But the point is PFF is freaking retarded

"Get 'Em"
PSN Username: FlyEagles15....MW3!!!!

by FlyEagles15 on Nov 23, 2011 12:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

JUST SO FAR this season.

"...has been timed at 4.39 in the 40-yard dash, and owning a 40.5-inch vertical jump and a 440-pound max bench press, 605-pound squat and a power-clean of 374 pounds." Could you imagine what it would be like to have somone like this on your team???? Oh we do??? His name is Bruce Carter??? Hmmmm....... interesting.

by Feeling Blue & Silver on Nov 22, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

I'd like to see one of these done on the defense

I know we played the run very well, but if it weren’t for Babin’s strip, fumble recovery, I thought we witnessing another 4th quarter meltdown. Eli was marching down the field with ease.

Before Babin’s strip to end the game, Eli and the Giants were knocking on our door, and we would all be singing a different tune.

Also, tell Nmamdi to stop falling down when he get’s beat. Either pick up your top end speed or reroute the reciever at the line.

Reporter: "What have you done for T.O., besides getting him suspended?" Drew Rosenhaus: "Next question."

by BigDawk on Nov 22, 2011 5:19 PM EST reply actions  

If the Giants had scored, it would have been a meltdown. However they didn’t score because our defense made a play. That’s what is supposed to happen.

by eagleyosh on Nov 22, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

They picked up 80 yards in a matter of seconds

It was one lucky play away from being a meltdown.

Reporter: "What have you done for T.O., besides getting him suspended?" Drew Rosenhaus: "Next question."

by BigDawk on Nov 22, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Giants got lucky too

should of been 3rd and 20…Cole got MUGGED by beatty. right in front of Eli’s buddie’s eyes

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Nov 22, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t understand how two referees in the backfield can lead to less holding penalties, and they seem to be more blatant!

Eagles: Who knows what this team is. #TeamKeepAndyReid
Flyers: On a nice roll
Phillies: Sigh

by bdawk4ever on Nov 22, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

seems like holding is an arbitrary call these days

but at least they were consistent. both teams got away withs acouple

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Nov 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

We needed a big play and our D delivered. The Giants got nearly all of their yards during that drive on a broken play (during which Cole was blatantly held). I don’t see that as lucky because our guys lost Cruz in coverage. Similarly, Babin sacking Eli from behind isn’t lucky…it’s just a good play.

by eagleyosh on Nov 22, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

can't wait until the refs return to the fix

and start making ridiculous calls against the eagles. especially against the pats with all their red white pride and blue thing going on. brace yourselves. the refs will do to the eagles what they’ve been doing all year particularly if vick returns. don’t you cringe every time an eagle makes a sack, cringe in anticipation of a penalty flag?

by 1993Heel on Nov 23, 2011 12:28 AM EST reply actions  

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