Is Vick better than Mcnabb was in his prime here ?
by Gdog2009 on Oct 19, 2011 12:10 AM EDT
Email
Print
Looking at Mcnabb the last 3 or 4 years leaves a bad taste in a lot of people mouth. The last 2 Cowboy games especially. But the bottom line is hes won a lot of games here and is probably the best Eagles QB ever. His Eagle teams had a lot of great wins and put up a ton of points with some really shitty receivers. Unfortunately he and the Eagles came up short in big games, A LOT.
One can argue that despite Vick being over 30, he is in his prime. Hes still fast and is passing as good as ever.
No question Vick is a better player than Mcnabb is now, but what about 2004 Mcnabb ? That version of Mcnabb never turned the ball over and put up crazy numbers throwing the ball to a also in his prime Terrell Owens. Mcnabb was a lot tougher and more durable than Vick and made his own share of spectacular plays with his legs and arm.
Vick is a great playmaker right now. Hes more accurate than Mcnabb ever was, but also more careless. When healthy he really is a human highlight film. Vick also is dead serious about the game. He never laughs on the sideline or in the huddle and seems to always take the blame on himself when the eagles lose. Something Mcnabb never did. He *seems* to thrive in the big moments, but realistically he did choke a little bit himself when he threw that totally unnecessary ball to riley cooper in the green bay playoff loss.
So its a tough call-----I think at this point I would have to go with Mcnabb. He did a lot more with a lot less. He did have TO one year but before that it was Westbrook, Chad Lewis---and who ? Obviously if Vick wins a super bowl here that will change but as of right now I will choose Mcnabb. Warts and all.
73 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think yes
I loved McNabb, and he was a very good QB. But he had more to work with than Vick. This o-line is improved from last year, but Peters and Herremans are the only definite studs, with Honey Badger creeping into the mix too. To do what he’s done with as much pressure in his face as he gets, Vick’s been damn impressive. Stupid arm, good accuracy, ridiculous agility and speed… Like you said, he’s a little reckless, but he’s just so freakin’ talented. Its very close, but I’d give the edge to Vick.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Haha who is HoneyBadger?
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Oct 19, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Evan Mathis… Anthro asked Mathis a question which resulted in the response “Honey Badger doesn’t give a shit”
I come in peace. Neutrality is my thing.
Barry Sanders is better than Deion Sanders.
lol nice
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Oct 19, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree strongly at this point. Remember, McNabb was one of the least intercepted QB’s of all time. The Eagles’ recent struggles with turnovers (including Vick INT’s) should highlight how important that can be. McNabb knew when to take a sack, or chuck the ball out of bounds when he was outside of the pocket. Vick isn’t an INT machine or anything, but that’s something that McNabb was really, really good at.
No doubt. I loved that about McNabb, and its why Kolb scared me so much as a replacement. But I think Vick’s ability to always make something out of nothing outweighs McNabs efficiency.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
Wait
Mcnabb had more to work with than Vick? I dunno about that. Vick has Jackson, Maclin, Avant, Steve Smith, Cooper, Mccoy, and Celek at his command.
I don’t think Mcnabb ever had talent at all the positions like Vick does. Westbrook was amazing. T.O. for a brief time but out side of that…. I think Vick has had a much better team to work with in terms of talent.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
MonSTARZ forever!
I was talking offensive line. I think that’s way more important than the quality of the weapons. Take a look at the Patriots, for example. Other than their TEs, they don’t really have any big name players at the skill positions, but Brady has success because the O-line is usually pretty solid. McNabb’s o-line was perennially great, while Vick’s last year was anything but.
Formerly DeSean10
36-5-20-JJ -- Forever Bleeding Green
but realistically he did choke a little bit himself when he threw that totally unnecessary ball to riley cooper in the green bay playoff loss.
am i mistaken in thinking that the pass you’re referring to was a great pass that riley cooper wasn’t able to reel in, and if he was able to reel it in, would have won the game?
http://www.libertyballers.com/
What really pisses me off about that throw was it was on 1st and freaking 10 with 40+ seconds to go. They had drove all the way down the field and were just 20 yards away from winning the game. Why throw a jump ball up for grabs and count on your rookie receiver to haul it in when you’ve got 4 downs and plenty of time to work with? UGHHHH we can only wonder what could’ve been…
agreed.
I implied he choked a little because of what MikeCampy said AND because it was a bad throw.
I mean hell if Mcnabb did that we would have all killed him. Sometimes I think many people just LIKE Vick better than Mcnabb because of his demeanor and the way he acts on the field.
We all want our athletes to take this game seriously, and even if Mcnabb did inside he sure as hell didnt seem like it on the outside.
your last point
wass what the vikings saw also.. a qb with major flaws, who said he didnt see any flaws and didnt seem to care…
either way… its not even clos vick is the better qb… even if they are equal as passers (which they aren’t) Vick is much more accurate and uses his legs…. the miracle of meadow lands? Mcnabb could NEVER do thatm , not even in his prime
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
I say you can't compare the two.
Vick had two years off from the The Worst Crime in America's History. If anything it would better to compare Vick to Randall Cunningham. Both had time off before their second stint in football. Both Cunningham and Vick played up to their potential during their second stint.
Apples and Oranges here.
I come in peace. Neutrality is my thing.
Barry Sanders is better than Deion Sanders.
I agree
with you on this one. McNabb was great at the deepball and had great moments with his legs. But was sloppy with the short pass and was no where near as serious about the game as Vick is now. Vick is good at all of the above. Randall was the same way but didnt have the coaching that Vick has. I would take Randall with this staff over all of them but that is just me. But may Vick prove me wrong by winning the game, that we keep nameless, that no other has.
Yes he is. way more accurate
and he USES HIS LEGS… something mcnabb used to utilize and make defenses thin about…until he became a “Pocket passer” which he was really mediocre at
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
yes when the game is on the line you knew there was a big chance mcnabb was going to throw the ball at his receivers feet or take a sack, i hated mcnabb because he was awesome 90 percent of the time but choked when it counted the most
"Buddy doesn't have many rules but one of them is don't lose to the Cowboys."
pretty much sums it up
He had great plays, and he had “WTF” plays. His great plays, were not enough to overcome his bounce passes and not hitting his guys in stride….
Another great point n this thread is that the guys seem to LOVE and respond to Vick. I don’t think McNabb had the same effect on the locker room. WHen he left pretty much noone but Weaver gave mcnabb an endorsement
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Dirt balls are more annoying then in completions. Its like he gave up at the end of the game.
by Bleeding_Green_Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
How short of a memory people have. McNabb in 04 was one of the top 5 QBs in the league.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
Life is a what have you done lately
and Kevin Kolb won best offensive player for the week twice… how is that working out for him?
I come in peace. Neutrality is my thing.
Barry Sanders is better than Deion Sanders.
wow 1 good year in 11
he actually ha dmaybe 3 good years, the rest were VERY inconsistent and mediocre.
hw about in 2006 it was either BOOM or bust, and we ended up going 5-6 or something til Jeff Garcia came in and really made the offense very efficient
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
He was pretty decent in 06’ prior to his injury. He was on pace to break his 04-5 numbers. We were 5-4 prior to him getting injured and was averaging 26 point per game.
by The Pied Piper on Oct 19, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
despite those #s
I think we were 5-5 when he got injured maybe 4-5 , we were left for dead before we went 6-1 with Garcia who ran the offense much better…
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Not true.
Prior to week 11 we were 5-4. McNabb was injured after the 1st quarter and we ended up losing that game and the next game vs. the Colts. We were 5-6 and then went on a 5 game winning streak.
I’m not sure you can say that the offense was more efficient under Garcia. The offense was playing well under McNabb. That year was similar to this year. We lost 3 games due to stupid mistakes-
westbrook’s fumble
having 12 men on field for NO’s final drive
mcdougle’s penalty
by The Pied Piper on Oct 19, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Something your are forgetting during the Garcia era.....
The passing game was not the focus of the offense during those 7 games Westbrook was the focus. It was the first time in his career he had 6 straight 100 yard games. I hate when people give the credit to Garcia when it was actually Westbrook and the running game that made that streak possible.
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by eaglelover1 on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
the first couple of years of starting
He literally WAS the offense…the year the giants beat us en route to Super Bowl, pretty much every NFC Championship season after that…
His first five years ranged from very good to great (especially when you take into account his rushing totals)and his numbers in 2005 and 2006 were pretty good as well before his injuries (the TO implosion year). 2007-2009 ranged from meh to good (He still maintained a 2:1 TD:pick ratio and had a qb rating of 87 or higher every year).
So you’d probably say he had one elite year, 6 very good years, 3 meh to good years.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
2005 despite the #s he was terrible
we either had a BIG play or it was 3 and out…and it lead to a really bad record until he got injured… Garcia ran the offense much more efficiently
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
vick has too small of a sample size to compare the 2 yet
he’s only had one chance at the playoffs so I think we can come back to this argument if he leads the team there this season and wins a couple games. he’s got to get a few more meaningful games under his belt.
it’s also a difficult argument because mcnabb had a superior O-line and Vick has superior targets. but obviously if Vick can win the big one in his time here there will be no argument.
Tribute for Mcnabb:
I’m going to dress as him for Halloween so I can throw candy in the dirt when kids come knocking on my door.
by Bleeding_Green_Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
Don't give yourself a hernia
Maybe later you can throw up in your front yard, then stumble back and keep throwing out candy
by DLawrence55 on Oct 19, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Its tough to say. I was always a McNabb and was in the boat with he never had jack to work with.
McNabb had Westbrook & 1 season of Owens
Vick has McCoy, Maclin, Jackson.
McNabb had a good run blocking O line and great bookends in Tra & Jon but since it was Reid, he was passing near 70% of the time, which defenses knew and eyed the pass more then the run.
Vick on the other hand has had a crap oline really, pretty much the same towards the end up McNabbs career here but he has outs in his WRs & RB.
They both have Reid so thats a negative lol. People always said McNabb was a choker in big games but if you look back on most of those big games you know where the blame was…Reids play calling.
So i would say McNabb was better just on the fact he had alot less weapons then Vick does.
mcnabb had A MUCH better offensive line and defense then vick has had so far
Even mark sanchez can got o the title game with a godo defense……
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Loved McNabb
He just wasnt as clutch as you want a winner to be.
Vick never quits and does have more talent.
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Oct 19, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions
If he cuts down on his picks
Then definitively yes. Vick is more accurate and a more dynamic runner. But his accuracy is a bit of a double-edged sword because his confidence leads him to take more risks.
Clutch performance aside (because McNabb did lead some comebacks), I just think Vick is more talented. But he needs to cut down on the turnovers.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
I agree.
McNabb did lead some comebacks, but in my opinion, not enough. I remember countless games where, if we didnt have the lead within the first few drives, it seemed like he almost gave up at times. His clock management & urgency was never good (see SB 2004).
With Vick we just get this feeling thats its never over until its over. He’s already showed that many times last season. That clutch factor is really important to win championships. I agree, he needs to work on his timing and getting rid of the ball faster, but let’s also keep in mind that Vick is still learning that process. He has changed his mechanics so much in recent years. Let’s just hope that he will put it all together and finally help us win a SB.
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Oct 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
see: 4th and 26
We now know that the clock management problem started from the top.
Personally, I think Vick’s clutchness is overrated. What happened against Green Bay? And this year, for a variety of reasons not all related to him, he has failed to put his foot on the opponent’s throat when we have a lead, particularly in the red zone (see: Atlanta, San Francisco, Washington).
That said, he is simply more accurate than McNabb. There’s no denying that. Even earlier in his career, McNabb did not throw with the consistency of Mike Vick, and he had a much better o-line. But he also took better care of the ball.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
4th and 26 was nice, no denying it. But how many years did McNabb play here? How many opportunities did he get to be clutch and win us games, and he didnt?
Just sayin….
You can say what you want but facts are facts….
Formerly BWestFactor
FLY #7 FLY !
by ShadyMcVickFactor on Oct 19, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed 4th and 26th was great
but too many times in BIG games he just did not come through….. in 3 CG and the SB he was largely the problem with turnovers and inconsistency
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
pretty much the same ratio
as Vick…he blew it in the playoffs when we needed a play most. He blew it this year twice (other factors also played a part, but the same can be said for McNabb).
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
mcnabb could NEVER do the miracle of the meadowlands 2, never
not even in his prime
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
neither could Tom Brady or Joe Montana.
by The Pied Piper on Oct 19, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
tanman
great analysis of Vick’s accuracy. I agree he sometimes can be TOO confident and force a throw…. it’s actually EXACT opposite of mcnabb. he wasn’t confident, never forcied throws and hterefore never threw picks which he was praised for… ALthough he didnt throw picks he iehter threw it 4 yards short of the market to the checkd own or bounced a pass and imo it’s the same as a turnover….
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
McNabb
and Vick are products of a system, like Feeley and Detmer and Kolb.
Joe Banner is Evil Banners father. Kinda like Luke and Darth Vader.
Juan Castillo switching from the offensive line coach to Defensive coordinator is soooo dumb it might just work.
Our defense will not be a top 10 defense this year.
by MightyJoeBanner on Oct 19, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
bahahahaha
Are you kidding me? Michael Vick is not the product of a system. You cannot teach that arm strength, accuracy, and speed. With this newfound work ethic, the guy would be successful in anything from triple option to WCO to i-form to the wing-T.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Accuracy?
What he did last year and what he has done this year and his career are far apart. He has a LOUSY career completion %. New work ethic? He still can’t successfully recognize a blitz and audible into the correct play. He is not a great QB. He is a great athlete!
Joe Banner is Evil Banners father. Kinda like Luke and Darth Vader.
Juan Castillo switching from the offensive line coach to Defensive coordinator is soooo dumb it might just work.
Our defense will not be a top 10 defense this year.
by MightyJoeBanner on Oct 19, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
hes wayyy more accurate than mcnabb ever was
vick can hit guys in stride and lead WRs…mcnabb threw to the wrong shoulder 100 mph — he even missed screen passes…
you are right he may not be a star at recognizing defenses, and thats hes a great athlete…but hes definitely accurate.. .he throws lasers
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
Yeah I’m really surprised that Vick is accurate.
Also Vick’s “fire” for the game is very likable. Win or Lose I love how Vick portrays himself as a QB. Mcnabb was too passive which became so annoying.
by Bleeding_Green_Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
His competetive fire is second to none
Joe Banner is Evil Banners father. Kinda like Luke and Darth Vader.
Juan Castillo switching from the offensive line coach to Defensive coordinator is soooo dumb it might just work.
Our defense will not be a top 10 defense this year.
by MightyJoeBanner on Oct 20, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
well..
Its a good argument. I know Vick has been here short term and I wasn’t comparing bodies of work. I’m just asking right now—-with Vick arguably in his prime, is he a better player than Mcnabb was in his prime. I can tell you this, if we would have traded for Tony Gonzales when he was available I think we would have had at LEAST one Superbowl. Mcnabb loved throwing to the TE’s—and Gonzales can make the tough catches. Its too bad the Eagles never made that move. Certainly one of the biggest personnel blunders in team history.
Vick with Andy Reid as a coach and early 00’s eagles defense=multiple super bowl, maybe a dynasty.
Remember after the Rams game people complained about Vick 43% accuracy? He moved it all the way to 62%. Vick is on his second 62+ accuracy season, Mcnabb only had one(2004). I never realize how accurate Vick was until this season. Mcnabb was never as consistent as Vick. Though Mcnabb peak is comparable to Vick’s peak in the passing game. Vick is just more consistent.
by Bleeding_Green_Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
NO F-ING WAY!!
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..
92 WINS 49 LOSSES
216 TDs 100 ints.
2004 64.0pct. 3875yds 31TD 8 int. (with only 2 weps Westbrook& TO)
2008 60.4pct. 3916yds 23 TD11int ( with 1 real target)
Get back to me when Vick can do this.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..
We will see after this year
Mind you, this is his SECOND season with signficant playing time. You are pointing out 2 years of McNabb’s career……. Just wait
Since you playing ball let me show you how I put my "D" down........ Rebound!!! Your man dropped the ball and I caught it, Im trying to Lay-up in ur body, ya Im ballin!!!
mcnabb was a giant killer
but for real, ive watched him for 11 years + …hes nowhere near vick’s talent
JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason
yeah but even if you add in the rushing yds
DM still has bigger yrs. And the talent surrounding him cant be ignored.. IMO
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..
Lets wait until the end of the season
If Vick stays healthy, he is on pace to be the first QB ever to throw for 4000 and rush for over 1000…… No other QB in the HISTORY of the game has ever come close to that……With that said, its to early to judge them. McNabb accomplished a lot while he was here. Im not going to diss him for what he didnt or couldnt do. He did what he could. Its a good topic, but get at me in a couple of years……….
Since you playing ball let me show you how I put my "D" down........ Rebound!!! Your man dropped the ball and I caught it, Im trying to Lay-up in ur body, ya Im ballin!!!
an hear in lies the problem
If Vick stays healthy,
especially if he is rushing for 1000yds.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..
2 weapons Mcnabb needed...
If Mcnabb had Tony Gonzales and a guy like Randy Moss—we could have easily won a superbowl or two. He was inaccurate but Gonzales could help there as he can hall in anything his way and with Moss he could have just chucked it 60 yards and Moss would have made the play. See Randall Cunninghams years in Minnesota for reference.
I prefer Vick overall because I too hate that smiling and laughing after a gut wrenching loss that Mcnabb always used to do. But I do think Mcnabb holds the edge…so far but plenty of time for Vick to change that.
yea but that
was Mcnabbs biggest issue, the short pass, Tony would have been on the ground to many times and getting dirt thrown at him,, I love McNabb for all he did here but everyone has to agree he sucksed throwing a short pass.
At this point its hard to compare
McNabb consistently played well for nearly a decade, Vick had one HUGE year, but this season hasn’t been nearly at this 2010 level. So if Vick can start to win this season, and play consistently, maybe, but right now, McNabb. One great year doesn’t outweigh a decade of great play.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
And wrong again
Vick is on pace to blow the stats out the water this year compared to last year, We have just been unfortunate and lost 4 games – we should be 5-1 or 6-0 and if that was the case no comparing at all,, Vick couldnt finish 2 of those games we were leading,, Vick is the backbone of that offense, People should deal with it,, Shady the best player but Vick is the backbone,, dont want anyone saying I am back and fourth I am not,, again Shady the best player on our offense, Vick backbone.
ha
Damn in that pic -Vick looks like a little bitch next to Mcnabb
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleeding Green Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
- Having finally landed, Kellen Winslow looks for a fresh start in Seattle
- Tim Tebow teased with chants of ‘Lolo!’ in Jets locker room
- The Shutdown Corner Podcast: Greg Cosell on the NFC South Draft
- BREAKING: Tim Tebow did not become a great quarterback today
