The official 6,500+ word guide to Kevin Kolb’s offseason: Can, should, and will the Eagles trade him, and what should they expect as compensation?
First, can the Eagles trade Kevin Kolb?
There are 5 issues at play there:
1) First and foremost, there will be no trades until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached. Per Adam Schefter:
"Until there is a new agreement, there will be no trades. Washington cannot trade Donovan McNabb or Albert Haynesworth; Denver cannot trade Kyle Orton; no trades of existing contracts will be permitted until a new agreement is signed -- whenever that is."
Schefter didn't mention Kevin Kolb, but yes, he means Kevin Kolb, too. So if the Eagles have any intention of exploring Kolb's value around the league, they'll need the new CBA to be done with a little more urgency than a McNabb 2 minute drill. From here on out, this entire acticle assumes a CBA deal gets done prior to the draft.
2) Should Kevin Kolb compete with Michael Vick for the starting job in camp? Nope. No further explanation is necessary.
3) Kolb's contract situation: Any team interested in Kolb should be mindful that Kolb is set to be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. Last year, that was a pesky wrinkle that made trading Donovan McNabb difficult, who was also in the final year of his contract. Since McNabb had no interest in being traded in the first place, he had some leverage in that he could make it clear to various suitors that he did not wish to sign a long term deal with their organizations. This severely hurt his trade value with those teams. However, Kolb's situation is much different. For one, Kolb wants to start, and has made it clear that if he can't start for the Eagles, he would like to be traded. Obviously, any team that would pony up a high draft pick to acquire Kolb would want to sign him long term. Since Kolb is only scheduled to make $1.392 million in 2011, he should also be eager to get a long term deal very soon. There's no real obstacle there.
4) Michael Vick's contract situation: Michael Vick is of course an unrestricted free agent. However, there's absolutely no way on Earth the Eagles will let him get away. They'll likely look to eventually get a longterm deal done soon, and they'll use the franchise tag on Vick while those talks continue.
5) Michael Vick's style of play: Anyone that watched Eagle football this year saw how many shots Michael Vick takes. That isn't going to change. Michael Vick is always going to look to make plays with his legs. That's what makes Michael Vick... Michael Vick. Conversely, opposing defenses are always going to try to hit him (and hit him hard) as much as they possibly can. These are all obvious statements. If Kevin Kolb were to stay in Philly for the 2011, he'd clearly be the best backup QB in the league. That's an awesome luxury. However, if he can provide real value in return via a trade, it's a luxury the Eagles will be willing to sacrifice should the right compensation present itself.
Do the Eagles have leverage in trade talks?
Absolutely. The Eagles can (and usually do) play the "We're not interested in trading (fill in the player)" game, to give the impression that you better come with a strong initial offer or we won't even begin discussing it. That strategy can fail miserably in the event teams around the league call your bluff and you're left with a player you have no use for because you overplayed your hand. However, in the Eagles' case, because of Michael Vick's penchant for taking too many big hits (as noted above), having the best backup QB in the NFL isn't a bad thing at all. He'd be unhappy in that role, but the Eagles aren't just going to hand him over to avoid having an unhappy player in the locker room, and Kevin Kolb doesn't strike me as the "team cancer" type.
How good is Kevin Kolb?
Well, why not just go to the video tape? Here some of Kevin Kolb's performances on film (Falcons, 49ers, Redskins and Cowboys game tape missing), with Tommy Lawlor's game reviews that he wrote at some point during the week after each game (in blockquotes). If you don't read Tommy's game notes after each game (which can be found here), then shame on you. Tommy wrote all of the game reviews, with the exception of the Ravens game:
Game reviews:
KOLB vs RAVENS
It's very difficult to judge Kolb on this one. He was coming in after halftime against a Ravens team that had probably one of the two best defenses in the NFL in 2008. Donovan McNabb was completely ineffective against them throughout the entire first half, and thus, the benching occurred. It's noteworthy that the Ravens more than had an answer for the Eagles' offense that day, and Kolb was essentially thrown to the wolves. It was his first meaningful regular season action in his career, under extremely difficult circumstances. He actually provided a spark at one point during this game, when he led an impressive drive in which he went 5-5 for 53 yards... before throwing the pass that everyone remembers - the Ed Reed interception that was returned 108 yards for a score the other way.
KOLB vs SAINTS
Good game. Got sloppy at times and made some mistakes, but did well overall. Can you imagine if I told you last week that Kolb would throw for 391 yards and a pair of touchdowns? Not many people would have believed that. Kolb did make some mistakes, but they were due to lack of experience, not skill or talent. You can coach him up on the areas that need work. I was pleased with his pocket presence. He took some big hits, but still got the pass off and the ball was on target. He threw some passes away when it was clear no one was open. The one sack he took was a blitz up the middle where the defender was untouched. You just have to eat that ball, which Kolb did.
One area that many fans have worried about is Kolb's arm strength and ability to throw the ball on intermediate or deep routes. I thought he did very well in this area. He threw an excellent ball on the long touchdown catch by DeSean Jackson. That pass was accurate and had some zip. Kolb threw a couple of good passes to Jason Avant in the middle of the field. He hit Brent Celek on a seam route for a good gain. We had 5 pass plays of longer than 20 yards. We had a couple more than went 19 yards. Kolb doesn't have an elite arm, but he showed enough arm strength to run an NFL offense and make the defense cover the whole field.
I thought Kolb made good reads and accurate throws. He was comfortable running the offense. Some young quarterbacks look nervous and it shows in their play. Kolb did fine. Until we got to the red zone, that is. Kolb struggled down there. All of a sudden things get compressed and you have to be very precise. Reads have to be made quickly. Throws have to be on target. The quarterback also has to get the ball out quickly so as not to give defenders a chance to bat the ball down at the line of scrimmage or make a play on it near the receiver. Kolb was indecisive and his reads were slower than you'd like. These are typical mistakes from a young quarterback. The one touchdown that he threw in the red zone came on a fourth down play where Kolb scrambled and relied on his playmaking instincts. He saw Avant open in the back of the endzone and got him the ball.
KOLB vs CHIEFS
Kevin played even better than last week. He wasn't flawless, but had a darn good game (24-34-327, 2 TDs in the air and 1 on the ground). Kevin was generally accurate. He made good reads and threw the ball well. His passes had good velocity. He was deadly on 1st downs. Through 3 Qtrs he was 10-12-170 on them. That's impressive. Kevin seems very comfortable in the shotgun. He can drop back, but doesn't look as smooth. He threw the ball well on a few intermediate routes. He hit DeSean for a gain of 43. He hit Celek for his TD down the field. Kevin threw off his back foot a couple of times. Both passes were caught and had some zip, but that can be a bad habit to get into. I thought his best throw was a pass to Celek on 1st/GL from the 9. He threw the ball quickly. It was accurate. It had zip, but was catchable. Brent got it easily and put us down a the 2. Simple play, but that's the kind of Red Zone passing you need. Be decisive, be on time, and be on target. Kevin saw the field pretty well. There was one play where Celek was uncovered in left slot. Kevin dropped back and immediately got the ball to him. That was a gain of 15 or so. Sounds easy, but how often do you see something obvious before the snap and the QB goes elsewhere? You yell at the TV "how could you not see that?".
My biggest problem with Kolb right now is that he's erratic on some throws over the middle. This cost us last week on a couple of 3rd downs. Ditto for this week. The problem he has is throwing to his targets and not leading them. When guys are crossing the field you have to throw to the spot where they will be, not where the player is. Young QBs have to adjust to how fast the guys are moving and get the ball out in front of them. Kevin must work on this. I'm not sure if this is his fault, but there were at least 2 plays where he and the WR were not on the same page. Kevin threw to Reggie on the left side. The ball went one way and Reggie cut to the other. That was almost picked off. Later Maclin and Kolb looked confused on a pass to the right side. I don't know who was at fault, but this needs to be ironed out. You don't want to leave points on the board due to confusion and you sure as heck don't want a turnover because of it.
KOLB vs PACKERS
Pretty much a nightmare start. Things started innocently enough. Hit Maclin for 5 yds on his first completion. That was pretty much the highlight of the 1st half. Kevin finished 5-10-24. Not great numbers, to put it mildly. He never looked comfortable on the field. I'm not sure what the problem was, but he was just off. He gave us the worst of both worlds. On some plays he was hesitant to pull the trigger and held the ball too long. Other times he threw the ball too quickly instead of making good reads. He was at his worst forcing the ball to DeSean, who was heavily covered for most of the game. Kevin almost had 2 passes picked off.
The biggest thing Kevin did wrong was simply not just running the offense. That's all Vick did when he came in. Drop back, find the open guy and get him the ball. Vick's scrambling certainly helped, but Kolb should have been much more effective than he was. It almost felt as if he was trying to be too perfect. You don't have to do that with the caliber of skill players we have. Just execute. On time, on target.
KOLB vs REDSKINS
(Game tape unavailable)
Came into the game in the 2nd Qtr. Finished 22-35-201, with TD, INT. Didn't play well, but I don't agree with the notion that he was awful. He led us on a pair of scoring drives. He had us in FG range on another drive when the RB fumbled. He had us in position to steal a win at the end. Kolb frustrated all of us with the short throws to be sure, but it wasn't as if the offense was 3 & out over and over. That to me is "awful" QB play. Kevin wasn't good, but I've seen starters go 2 for 17. That is awful. There is a difference in not good and completely incompetent.
He did a good job of taking what the defense was giving him. Moved the chains. The problem is that we have one of the best trios of WRs in the league and Kevin wasn't getting the ball to them. He didn't challenge the defense down the field until the 4th Qtr. Can't have that. At some point you have to move the ball with at least intermediate throws.
Best throw of the game was his TD to Brent Celek. Brent was over the middle and right between two defenders. The umpire was also in the area. Kevin gunned the ball in confidently. Had another strong moment on 3rd/10 on his first full drive. Stepped up in the pocket and threw a strike to Avant. Jason was able to get 17 yards on the play and move the chains.
Worst moment was the start of his first full drive. Bobbled the snap. Dropped the ball. Looked shaky when he picked it up and then had his pass deflected. Luckily, it fell incomplete. That just looked bad. You're not going to inspire confidence in other players with plays like that. Made a poor read on the 2-point conversion attempt. Mac was wide open over the middle. Kevin threw to Avant, who was covered. That proved to be a crucial mistake. If we cut the lead to 17-14 that changes the last 4:10 of the game.
The final drive wasn't pretty. Kevin could have been picked off several times. He was forcing the ball, which had to be done. Made a poor throw to Celek on a seam route. Brent was open, but Kevin put the ball to the wrong side. Brent turned and got his hands on the ball, but couldn't hold on. Bad pass. Gotta hit that guy when he's open like that.
KOLB vs 49ERS
(Game tape unavailable)
Good game. 21-31-253, TD. 3 rushes for 17 yds. Led us to a pair of TDs. Threw the ball pretty well. Had 4 pass plays of at least 20 yards. All were throws where the ball went at least 20. Had a couple of short passes to Shady that got good RAC yards.
I thought Kevin looked like a good starting QB. He wasn't nervous or awkward at all. He moved up in the pocket when it was needed. He eluded the rush on a couple of plays. He distributed the ball pretty well. It didn't seem like he was locking on to any one player or side of the field. There was a part of the game where several 3rd down passes went to Celek. I'm not sure if that was by design or not. Threw for Celek down the middle on 3rd/9. Brent was well covered. My initial reaction was that Kevin was dumb to force that. The replay showed that Kevin made an amazing throw that went right past the LB and into Brent's hands. He simply didn't hold onto the ball. Willis had his hand on Brent's arm, but it looked like Brent still should have made the grab.
Specific notes:
Moved up in the pocket and hit Avant over the middle for a 1st down inside the 10.
Scrambled to the right late in the half and got off an excellent throw to Celek along the sideline.
Started the game 12-14-123, TD.
Got sacked late in the half and fumbled. 3rd/3. Had to get that ball out quickly.
Hit Maclin down the left sideline for 41 yds just after halftime.
Threw deep for Maclin a couple of plays later, but he was covered and the ball was incomplete.
Made a good throw to Chad Hall over the middle to convert on a 3rd/short play in the 3rd Qtr.
We went for it on 4th/1 in the mid-3rd Qtr. Kevin got pressured and had to throw off his back foot. He put the ball behind Celek and Brent wasn't able to make the grab.
Scrambled for 19 yds on 3rd/18. Dropped back. Didn't see anything open so he started to run. Used ball fakes, even when he was 10 yards downfield. Never really got to a full sprint, but he got our 1st down.
Had a 3rd/5 pass batted down in 4th Qtr.
Opened a drive in the mid-4th with a pass to Maclin over the middle for 22 yards.
KOLB vs FALCONS
(Highlights only)
Absolutely terrific. 23-29-326. 3 TDs. 1 INT on a deflected pass. QB rating of 133. Kevin ran the show. He got the ball to his playmakers and they produced. You want vertical? Pass plays of 20 or more yards: 5-5-221 with 2 TDs. Not bad. He didn't force the ball. He was calm and confident on the field. He moved up in the pocket when needed. Kevin largely had great protection, but he made sure to take advantage of it. We scored 14 points with DeSean, 17 without him. We also missed 2 FGs in that stretch. I think it was important that we didn't go in the tank once DJax went down. Kevin came through when we needed him to. He made some "momentum" throws:
* Hit Maclin for 12 yards to open drive after long PR. Last drive had fizzled after injury. We needed a boost.
* Hit Maclin for TD on 3rd down to end that drive. Excellent throw. Had to get the ball around a DT and to a tightly covered receiver.
* Hit Avant for 21 yards when we were backed up at our own 3. We had 28-10 lead, but needed a play.
* Hit Celek in traffic for 14 yards on 3rd/5. That kept drive going.
* Hit Celek on the right side for a gain of 24 on 3rd/7. That set up the late FG and truly sealed the game.
One of the ways you stop the other team from coming back is to keep moving the chains. You can also score some more points. Kevin did those things.
Misc Notes:
* McCoy's first run appeared to be an audible by Kevin. We shifted from Pro Set to I-form.
* Hit Mac for 17 yards to open the 4th drive.
* Mis-read a play in the late 1st Qtr. Got the ball to Schmitt in the flat, but he was tackled for a loss. Kevin may have expected a heavy blitz. ATL rushed 5, but the blocking was good.
* Had a QB sneak on 3rd/inches. Got almost a whole yard.
* Tried to hit Celek down the seam late in the half. Ball was too flat. MLB batted it and DB picked it off. Kevin was called for horse-collar tackle of DB.
There isn't really much to say critical of his game. You could be mad at the throw that led to DeSean's injury, but that wasn't a horrible pass. Maybe the biggest gripe is that Kevin never had to face any true adversity in the game. We led 14-0 just a few minutes in. He had little rush to deal with. The defense played well so it wasn't a shootout.
Personally, I'm excited that he played so well. Kevin has now played 11 straight quarters as the starter. That's the most in his young career. He's getting better and building confidence. He'll need everything he's learning for the game down the line when things don't go so well.
KOLB vs TITANS
Up and down game. 26-48-231. 1 TD, 2 INTs. This was the best defense he's seen all year. There were times when Kolb looked really good. There were some plays he'd like to have back. His best pass of the game was a throw to Riley Cooper in the red zone. We had a 3rd and 3 situation. Kolb threw the ball behind Cooper and to the outside, but that was exactly where the ball was supposed to be. Cooper was able to turn away from the defender and the pass was right there for him to snatch. Hit Cooper on a crossing route on 3rd/GL for a TD. Simple play, but it was well executed and Kolb made the correct read. Kevin did a good job on the final drive of the half. The clock in the stadium wasn't working so he had to go off instinct and then talk to ref when there was a dead ball. He led us to a FG. Kolb ran for a first down on 3rd and 14. That makes makes two out of the last three weeks where he's bailed us out on 3rd and long with a scramble.
One of the plays Kolb would like to have back was a pass inside the 10-yard line where he threw to a covered Jason Avant while Garrett Mills was open over the middle. That should have been an easy touchdown. Early in the game we had a rollout pass to Celek on the backside. He was open, but the throw was off target. That would have been a nice gain. Late in the game Kolb forced the ball to Celek on 3rd/4. That was broken up by Witherspoon. There was a pass in the RZ that Kolb forced to Maclin. Verner almost picked it off. 3rd/7 in the 4th Qtr. Kolb moved up the middle. Had room to run, but threw for Cooper. The pass was behind him and Riley went to the ground as he tried to make the catch. He was open. Or Kevin could have scrambled. He only had one defender to beat.
Kevin threw a careless pick-six to end the game. It isn't a big deal, but it sorta bugged me. I'd rather see him dump a ball to a receiver for 5 yards than throw something into double coverage and then to have the defender run it back.
One of the criticisms of Kolb is the underthrown deep balls. It was a windy day in Nashville. Kevin doesn't have the kind of explosive arm to just throw and not have the wind affect him. Also, he didn't always have a clean pocket. Kevin can be effective when he can really get his lower body involved. My biggest problem is that he's got to anticipate downfield plays quicker. Throw when the guy is about to come open. That way the ball has less space to travel and less time in the air. He will get better as he learns the subtleties of throwing deep. Kevin has to overcome his physical limitations by being as technically sound as possible.
KOLB vs COWBOYS
(Game tape unavailable)
Sloppy game. I was hoping Kevin would come out and play well. I wasn't looking for any new QB controversy or anything. I simply hoped Kevin would have a good day since he's been a good soldier about the demotion. That didn't happen.
Forget about the raw numbers, 18-36-162. Kevin just didn't look good. His passes were inconsistent. He was under a lot of pressure and didn't handle that well. Kolb looked very rusty. He hadn't really played since the Titans game so I expected some rust, but not this much. The game doesn't affect my opinion of Kevin. I still think very highly of him. It just wasn't much fun to sit through. Not having a good OL or starting skill players is going to be rough on any QB. The weather didn't help matters. Still, I was hoping for better.
Summary - Kevin Kolb has had 7 career NFL starts. He was absolutely fantastic in two of them (Chiefs, Falcons), as he took home NFL Offensive Player of the Week honors in both games. Let's not minimize that accomplishment. In fact, let's take a look at the math on that one. There are 32 NFL teams. There are 53 players on every NFL roster. Let's say for the sake of argument that 25 of those players on every 53-man roster play on the offensive side of the ball. 25 offensive players * 32 teams = 800 offensive players in the NFL. Kevin Kolb was voted the best player among those 800 offensive players in the league... twice... in his first five career starts, both wins of course. That is nothing to sneeze at.
He was very good in two other starts (Saints, 49ers), one a loss, one a win.
He was average in one relief appearance (Redskins), and bad in one relief appearance in an impossible situation (Ravens), both losses.
He was bad in three starts (Packers, Titans, and Cowboys), 2 of those being "real losses," one sort of a "no decision" in what was essentially an exhibition game with the Eagles' JV team playing the Cowboys' varsity team.
Those 4 good-to-great starts, quite simply, are enough to intrigue other teams around the league. Being a great NFL QB takes time. A few outliers aside, it's extraordinarily rare to see QBs have immediate success at this level, and most of the greats experienced similar starts to Kolb's - some bad outings, with a few unmistakable flashes of great QB play mixed in. It remains to be seen if Kolb can become more consistent if given the opportunity to be a franchise QB, although I believe he will.
Before we get to Kolb's worth, what were some other QBs' worth in trades over the last 5 years?
Just for fun, I compiled a chart of all the trades involving QBs over the past 5 years. The chart also includes teams that traded up in the draft and selected a QB in the first round. While it's a nice measuring stick, I don't believe this is a great indicator of Kolb's worth. Things change from year to year. The number of teams league-wide that badly need a QB in 2011 could be vastly different from the landscape of the league in 2007. Plus other things like player contract considerations and coaches' job stability are also in play, as in... Does the QB have a team friendly contract? Does the coach or GM think he's on the hot seat, and doesn't care about trading picks for immediate gratification to get quicker results and help save his job? The point here is... Don't read too much into the following graph:
| Year | Player | Compensation |
|---|---|---|
| 2006 | Jay Cutler, Part I | 15th overall pick, 68th overall pick |
| 2007 | Matt Schaub and the 10th overall pick | 8th overall pick, 39th overall pick, 2nd round pick in 2008 |
| 2007 | Brady Quinn | 36th overall pick and a 1st round pick in 2008 |
| 2008 | Brett Favre | Conditional pick (became a 3rd round pick in 2009) |
| 2008 | Joe Flacco | 26th overall pick, 89th overall pick, and 173rd overall pick |
| 2009 | Mark Sanchez | 17th overall pick, 52nd overall pick, Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, and Abram Elam |
| 2009 | Jay Cutler, Part II | 18th overall pick, 84th overall pick, 1st round pick in 2010, and Kyle Orton |
| 2009 | Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel | 34th overall pick |
| 2009 | Josh Freeman | 19th overall pick, 191st overall pick |
| 2010 | Tim Tebow | 43rd overall pick, 70th overall pick, 114th overall pick |
| 2010 | Donovan McNabb | 37th overall pick, conditional pick in 2011 (4th that could become a 3rd) |
| 2010 | Jason Campbell | 4th round pick in 2012 |
| 2010 | Charlie Whitehurst and the 60th overall pick | 40th overall pick, and a 3rd round pick in 2011 |
Who are the QB prospects that will likely be drafted in the first round?
There are likely to be a minimum of 3, maximum of 5 QBs that will be drafted in the first round of the 2011 NFL draft. The top 5 prospects:
1) Blaine Gabbert
2) Cam Newton
3) Jake Locker
4) Ryan Mallett
5) Christian Ponder
Below, I'll identify 14 teams that could potentially trade for Kolb. There's a perception that these 5 QB prospects mentioned above will eliminate 5 of those teams' needs for a franchise QB, but that's not necessarily the case. There are a number of teams that could go QB in an early round that already have a "franchise QB" in place. The Eagles obviously went that route when they drafted Kolb himself.
Obviously, drafting a QB in the first round can be a great move (Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, etc), or it can be a disaster (JaMarcus Russell, Joey Harrington, etc.). If you trade for Kolb, you have a very good idea of what you're getting. Here are the QBs that were drafted in the 1st round over the past 5 years, and how they've fared:
| Year | Player | Pick # | How'd that pan out? |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010 | Sam Bradford | 1 | So far, so good |
| 2010 | Tim Tebow | 25 | Surprisingly, so far so good |
| 2009 | Matthew Stafford | 1 | Injuries have stalled a promising start |
| 2009 | Mark Sanchez | 5 | Mildly impressive on film, but the results are there |
| 2009 | Josh Freeman | 17 | Young up-and-comer |
| 2008 | Matt Ryan | 3 | Fringe Top 10 NFL QB, annoying undesevred nickname |
| 2008 | Joe Flacco | 18 | I really don't know what to make of him |
| 2007 | JaMarcus Russell | 1 | Never thought there'd be a disaster worse than Ryan Leaf, but… |
| 2007 | Brady Quinn | 22 | Oof |
| 2006 | Vince Young | 3 | Letting buffoonery get in the way of his talent |
| 2006 | Matt Leinart | 10 | Chose partying over football |
| 2006 | Jay Cutler | 11 | Polarizing. Huge arm, still hasn't completely put it together. |
So what teams might be interested, and what compensation should the Eagles expect in return?
There are no shortage of NFL teams that desperately need a QB. Poor QB play in the NFL has become an epidemic, with almost half the league likely looking to improve that position this offseason. Here are a list of the teams I think could potentially have interest in trading for Kolb, and what I think the Eagles would receive in return if a deal got done. I think the rough value of Kolb is a mid-1, but obviously that can change depending on interested teams' draft positions.
(DISCLAIMER - I'm not suggesting the following teams should give up what I think the Eagles should get in return. I'm just saying that the Eagles shouldn't settle for less if they decide to pull the trigger). These teams are in order of likelihood to trade for Kolb, and as always, it only takes one to fall in love with the guy:
1) Cardinals - Interesting team here. Their defense stinks, but they have some things in place on the offensive side of the ball. A good QB would put them right back on top of the punchline NFC West. Last offseason they were ready to roll with Matt Leinart, who didn't even make the team. Instead, they cycled through a pu pu platter of garbage (Derek Anderson, Max Hall, John Skelton, and Richard Bartel). For those of you keeping score, Anderson had the best QB rating among those 4 QB's, at an astoundingly bad 65.9. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Cardinals' 1st round pick (5th overall) is unrealistic. The Cardinals' 1 in 2012 might get it done if they throw in a mid-round pick (perhaps a 3) this year.
2) Vikings - He who shall not be named is gone (good riddance), and although Joe Webb had a nice game against Philly, let's not kid ourselves and call Webb an answer at QB. Here's another team that has a ton of pieces in place. Bigtime RB and a good defense. Kolb could be an excellent fit in Minnesota. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Vikings' 1st round pick (12th overall). The Eagles LOVE drafting in the 12-20 range. They traded up to 15 in 2003 to take Jerome McDougle, they traded up to 16 in 2004 to take Shawn Andrews, they stayed put in the first round (a rarity for the Birds) at 14 in 2006 and took Brodrick Bunkley, and they traded up to 19 in 2009 to take Jeremy Maclin in 2009, and they traded up to 13 last year to take Brandon Graham. If they deal with the Vikings they'll absolutely demand that 12th overall pick. Maybe the Eagles will have to throw in a 3 or 4 with Kolb to get it done, but that 12th overall will be included.
3) 49ers - Alex Smith actually wasn't awful in 2010, but "not awful" isn't good enough. Obviously he's far from the player the Niners hoped he'd be when they drafted him first overall in 2005. It's been 6 years, and Smith's rookie contract is up. It's overdue time for a fresh start for Smith, and a fresh face at QB in San Fran. Aside from Alex Smith, if I'm new coach Jim Harbaugh, I don't have any interest in going into 2011 with Troy Smith or David Carr as my starting QB either. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? Just like the Cardinals' example above, the Niners' 1st round pick (7th overall) is probably a longshot. However, the Niners' 2nd round pick is way down at 45th overall, which just isn't going to do it as the centerpiece of a trade. The Eagles might consider a 1 next year, and perhaps a 3 in 2011.
4) Titans - Vince Young is done in Tennessee, and Kerry Collins is 38 years old. Before they started trotting guys like Rusty Smith out there as their starting QB, this is a team that was 5-2 at one point during the 2010 season and was looking like a serious Super Bowl contender out of the AFC. It should be noted that Kolb had a bad game against the Titans in 2010, which might have hurt his value had Jeff Fisher remained the Titans' coach, but now that's less of a factor. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Titans' 1st round pick (8th overall), again, probably won't happen, but the Titans pick 2nd round pick is 39th overall. Since they'd be trading him out of conference the Eagles could settle for the 39th overall pick, a 2 next year, and a late round pick.
5) Browns - Maybe the Browns believe Colt McCoy is the long term answer in Cleveland. I think people got a little carried away with his 2 consecutive wins over New Orleans (Drew Brees) and New England (Tom Brady) earlier this year. Impressive wins for sure, but it should be noted that the Browns won those games with the run game, as McCoy threw a combined total of 35 passes in those 2 wins. Any time McCoy was asked to throw more than 20 passes in a game this season, the Browns were 0-6. Furthermore, it should be noted that Browns GM Tom Heckert holds Kevin Kolb in high regard. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Browns' 2nd rounder (36th overall), their 2 next year, and a late round pick.
6) Bengals - I had the Bengals on this list even before Carson Palmer decided he wanted out of Cincinnati, albeit a little lower. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? Sort of like the Titans above, perhaps they settle for the Bengals' 2nd round pick (36th overall), a 2 next year, and a late round pick.
7) Dolphins - Chad Henne turns 26 in July and it may be too early to give up on him, but it's hard to ignore his terrible 2010 season in which he showed no improvement whatsoever from the previous year. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? Miami's 1 (15th overall). Thanks for the 2nd rounder for AJ Feeley by the way guys.
8) Jaguars - I've always thought David Garrard is an underrated QB. However, he turns 33 in February, and Jags owner Wayne Weaver has publicly criticized Garrard in the past. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Jags' 1 (16th overall).
9) Panthers - Andrew Luck's decision to return to Stanford must have been devastating to Carolina. He would have been a no-brainer pick at #1 overall. Panthers GM Marty Hurney has said publicly that QB is their #1 need. While that might just be gamesmanship from Hurney, it's hard to disagree with his statement. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Panthers stupidly traded their 2 in 2011 to the Pats and drafted Armanti Edwards. OOPS! The Eagles would look for their 1 next year, and perhaps their 3 in 2011, but the Panthers have to stop trading away future high picks at some point though, right?
10) Raiders - Kevin Kolb doesn't strike me as the kind of QB Al Davis likes. Kolb doesn't possess the kind of vertical, always-down-the-field type arm that they've tried to win with in the past. Ironically, Kolb is more like the QB they had the most success with this past decade, Rich Gannon. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Raiders don't have a 1 this year because they traded it to the... ah hem... Pats again... for Richard Seymour. This just in - The Pats are smart, but I digress. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Raiders 1 next year, 3 this year.
11) Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck is an unrestricted free agent this offseason, although they recently gave up a nice chunk of change for Charlie Whitehurst (see graph above). What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Seahawks' 1 (25th overall), and the 2nd pick in the 4th round (originally held by the Broncos).
12) Redskins - Could the Eagles (GASP!) trade a QB within the division? McNabb's days in D.C. are all but over. They'll be shopping, although I'd have to imagine they'll be a little gun shy when it comes to dealing with the Eagles this time around. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Redskins' 1 (10th overall).
13) Bills - Ryan Fitzpatrick began to develop nicely last season, but let's not get carried away there. Maybe the Bills will let it ride with Fitzpatrick. Maybe they won't. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Bills' 2 (34th overall), a 2 next year, and a late round pick.
14) Broncos - Denver has a new coach in John Fox, and 2 QB's in Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton. The Broncos are thought to be shopping Orton, which would indicate they're ready to go forward with Tebow. I don't see a great fit here, but I'm including them on this list anyway, just to cover my ass. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? It would have to be a 3-team deal in which they dealt Orton to a 3rd team and obtained Kolb. I'll decline to venture a guess on this one.
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Only 6,500+ words? Psh... Amateur.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
Good work
I think the closest proxy for the trade is the Matt Schaub trade from Atlanta to Houston (granted, Schaub only started two games, but he played in six). Houston and Atlanta flip-flopped the 8th and 10th picks in the 2007 first round (100 pts) and Atlanta also got Houston’s 39th pick in 2007 (510 pts) as well as their 2008 second rounder (ca. 300 pts). In total that put Schaub’s value at about 910 points, or the equivalent of the 18th pick.
I don’t think any teams are willing to simply give up a first rounder in exchange for Kolb, but exchanging firsts might be a viable option. If we assume other teams value Kolb as highly as the Texans valued Schaub (which is a big question mark in my mind, but that may just be blind Cowboys homerism), the following deals could look possible:
Vikings: Kolb + 23rd = Vikings 12th & 43rd (Kolb value: 910)
Titans: Kolb + 23rd = Titans 8th & 77th (Kolb Value: 845)
Redskins: Kolb + 23rd + 87th = Redskins 10th & 41st (Kolb Value: 875)
Here’s a link to a nifty little draft pick value calculator if anybody else wants to start adding up any other draft pick values and scenarios.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 31, 2011 7:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
I agree that the Schaub trade is probably the one that would be the most comparable, and ironically, both trades would occur because Michale Vick was the clear starting QB in both circumstances.
However, if they trade Kolb, he’s an asset that will attract pick(s) in return. I don’t see him as a bargaining chip to move up. I think the Vikings compensation you proposed could be attractive to the Eagles because they’d get a high 2 in return, while also moving up to that sweet-spot area that they like. Conversely, I think the Redskins deal would be awful for Philly. The Eagles aren’t going to trade what they think is a franchise QB type plus 2 picks, only only come out of the deal with 2 picks…. especially to Redskins.
It’s tough to assign a draft spot value to a player already in the league. Those charts are used as a guide on draft day itself. If a team is trying to move up because a guy they like may have fallen, that’s when those charts come into play. The Eagles don’t know how the draft will play out at this point, so trading up doesn’t do them a ton of good until they know who will be sitting there at the spot they’ve moved up to. Assuming the players union and owners cooperate in time, if the Eagles are motivated to trade Kolb, they’ll do so before the draft.
I agree on the Vikings trade valuation scenario looking the most attractive. That puts our pic above the Cowboys and Skins. If we don’t get a star corner via FA, Prince Akunamara should be around there for the taking. There should also be solid starting Guard talent in the mid second round.
I’ve also wondered about Player trade scenario’s. A pick and a Player type deal. The Matt Cassel deal, but there are just too many variables to even surmise what could happen.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jan 31, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Cowboys draft 9, and Redskins draft 10. The Giants draft 19, so we’d be ahead of them.
Let the beasting begin.
by TransplantedFan on Jan 31, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Agree on the draft charts
they are not great for this purpose, but they do help in scoping out some possibilities.
The interesting thing here though is that the 910 points I unilaterally assigned to Kolb are the equivalent of the 18th spot. I think teams will be willing to think about a trade for that value amount, but I think a lot of teams and GMs will balk at a deal that effectively costs them a first round pick.
Think about the difference in public perception: in the swapping scenario, the acquiring GM will be able to say something like : “We got Kolb for a second rounder and moved down a little in the first, but got the player we wanted anyway”. In a straight trade of a first for Kolb the headlines will read: “Team X gives up first rounder for Eagles back-up QB”. Not a headline you really want, is it?
Saving face is a serious consideration in this business, and most GMs will therefore much prefer the swapping scenario.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 31, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Think about the difference in public perception: in the swapping scenario, the acquiring GM will be able to say something like : "We got Kolb for a second rounder and moved down a little in the first, but got the player we wanted anyway". In a straight trade of a first for Kolb the headlines will read: "Team X gives up first rounder for Eagles back-up QB". Not a headline you really want, is it?
Very good point. In fact, I was thinking about doing a follow-up to this, in which I post on the teams’ blogs the trade scenarios I threw out, and having them vote on whether they’d do the deal or not. I’d be shocked if fans of other teams would vote higher than 20% in favor of the ones I proposed. The fans’ perception of Kolb around the league is dismal, and I sort of can’t blame them. Nobody saw his game against the Saints. Nobody saw he Chiefs game. Nobody saw the Falcons game. Those were 3 of his 4 best games. Meanwhile, EVERYBODY saw the Eagles-Packers opener (his worst game by far), and everybody saw the Redskins-Eagles game.
Good read as always
Personally I don’t want anything in 2012, and it can’t be lower than Kolb’s No. 40 original pick. I think the Birds can contend now and if they deal their most valuable trade chip, it has to be for some help now.
In other words, if no CBA gets done before the draft, which is likely, we have to trade him for a ready-to-start player or be prepared to let him walk at the end of the season. I guess a 2012 first-rounder is more valuable than nothing, but we don’t have time to wait for a pick to develop into a legit player for the 2014 season.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Good article
I don’t think BUF is an option. Chan Gailey seems to really want an athletic QB. Kevin isn’t a statue, but he’s not exactly a run-pass guy either.
I hope the CBA gets done so we can trade Kevin and get more ammo for the draft. I also want him to go somewhere that he can be “the man” and have his career.
I hope Kevin goes to the AFC personally. I’d like to root for him. I think he’s a class act and I really wish we could just keep him.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jan 31, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
I have to believe KK’s going to SF. Harbaugh is gonna want a QB that he can grow with. Plus, they are a good QB away from dominating that division for the next 5 years.
The Niners blog just talked about this on Sunday
most bloggers were lukewarm to the idea.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 31, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Some of those
comments make me giggle.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
It scares me to think that if we trade Kolb, and Vick gets a broken something or other(knock on wood), this monster machine (that could be) will have a little woman that can’t drive a stick sitting in the seat.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
I think I have seen this story already
maybe we can get a construction worker and an UDFA to back up our start QB. Does anyone know if Pat Ryan and Brad Goebel are still in playing shape?
It won't be a complete nobody
Maybe someone with some talent who could benefit from a change of scenery and Eagles’ coaching. But yeah, our season will always be one hit away from resting on Alex Smith potentially.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
thats why we sign/trade for an experienced qb to back up vick
like donovon mcnabb, we could probably get him from the redskins for like a 4th rounder at this point
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
R2C2!
RIP JJ
by sports00fan00 on Feb 3, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
oh no
not the “why kolb is an nfl caliber starting qb offseason edition” posts again, LOL.
I like kolb. But in my opinion, for someone who supposedly came out of the draft with good measurables, doesn’t have great upside. His arm strength seems just average, sure he can make all the throws but he will rarely wow you. It seems like he has some trouble reading defenses and is always too quick to check down (and in the process misses open receivers time to time). He also floats some passes, doesn’t throw to the correct shoulders, and is a little short (some of his passes get tipped). He’s a good quarterback who comes from a great program in philly, but he has a low ceiling. I can’t see any team trading a 1st or second round pick for kolb but that’s just me.
these can be fixed
given playing time I think that Kolb can overcome all of these things except for arm strength. He will never be able to gun it downfield through heavy wind like McNabb could, but that shortcoming could be corrected by play calling that fits the player. Unfortunately for KK, this coaching staff will go with its cuteness in the face of any troubles, and the quick slant WC offense that Kolb could run well will never actually take place within the current regime. The best chance to shine is going to be in a different uniform, which I hate, as I did think that he could have been good for us.
Tagging Vick
Awesome write-up, especially the second point.
However I don’t believe we can sign Vick to a long term contract this off-season because he played a certain amount of snaps or something like that.
Have you heard of this rule as well?
of course we could sign him to a long term deal
unless there’s something I don’t know of…I’ve never heard of a rule that prevented a long-term signing (with the exception of this 30% gig in this last year of the current CBA). There are rules on using the franchise tag, but not in signing a deal
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
We're going to have to recycle this a lot, as I predicted
I posted yesterday:
Apparently they can’t extend Vick
According to the Inquirer:
Because Vick hit contract incentives in 2010 that pushed his salary above 30 percent of his 2009 pay, the Eagles can’t extend his deal.
The limit is part of contract rules in place due to the NFL’s expiring CBA. Even if the Eagles eventually want to offer a long-term contract, they have to use the franchise tag first.Explains a lot.
I have a feeling we’re going to have to explain that over and over again on BGN for weeks :)
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
WOW
you will have to recycle that a lot…I’ve never heard that at all
thx for the heads up
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
Unless of course it's wrong
News organizations have misinterpreted things before.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
It wouldn’t surprise me if it was the Jaguars that traded for Kolb. I remember reading that if we didn’t take him they would of a couple picks later. I’ve always thought Garrard was underrated too but they don’t like him for some reason and he is getting up there in age.
I would love this as well
I bought a Kolb jersey before the year and had a lot of hopes for him. I hate trading him, but I realize we have too. If we do trade him to the Jags, then I would love to get Garrard in return (Garrard and their 2nd??). Everyone is concerned that if we trade Kolb that would leave Kafka as our only backup. So, we obviously would need to get another QB. I think Garrard would get a chance to start somewhere, but what a great back up to Vick!! A veteran QB with some air in the tires would be perfect until Kafka can get some years under his belt.
by Mike Will is DoubleDown on Jan 31, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Garrard would be a solid backup, there is backup QB talent in the draft as well
Kolb would do well on a team like the Jaguars. He may not be an NFL-level throw 70% of the time talent, but on a run-oriented team he might flourish.
by donniethelion on Jan 31, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
That would be a good deal for us
The question is do the Jags think Kolb is that much of an upgrade over Garrard to do it. Would we have to throw something in to make it happen, or would contracts even things out?
That’s definitely a guy who can come in a win some games for us when Vick is hurt.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
JimmyK, I simply do not understand the 1st rounder thing...
The only QB with game experience at the time of their trades to go for a 1st rounder were Matt Schaub and Jay Cutler, who was coming off a Pro Bowl season after just missing the playoffs. Kolb hasn’t done anythingof the like. The Matt schaub trade was in 2007 — 4 years ago. You’ll be the first person to admit that four years is an eternity in the NFL. Schaub is probably the best comparison (a few good appearances, pushed out of town by the play of Michael Vick, clear talent, decent arm and good accuracy, etc.), but even there we have some problems. Kolb is considerably older than Schaub was atthe time of his trade, and Schaub was being touted pretty highly at the time. I don’t see us getting Schaub-like compensation for the 26 (will be 27 by next season) year old Kolb. The other comparisons that I’d listen to are Brady Quinn, Jason Campbell, and Donovan McNabb.
Quinn’s stats were considerably worse than Kolb’s, and he was close to the same age (only a couple years younger, if my memory serves me) and experience level. This is the only trade that would lead me to believe we could get close to a 1st for Kolb — but let’s remember that this trade was made under the batshit-crazy McDaniels. Brady Quinn also had the advantage of being a 1st round pick, which you could argue is negated by hist first round pick contract, which is fair enough. I won’t argue this one any more, because in reality I suppose if the Browns could get an early second and a first we should certainly get that for Kolb, I just think McDaniels is absolutely insane.
Jason Campbell is, statistiacally, the best comparison. They were close in age when they were traded (again, slight advantage to Campbell) and Campbell’s numbers were better than Kolb’s in every major category. Kolb, however, had a higher percentage of good performances than Campbell and has the “unknown” factor that Campbell lost by starting a lot of games. He only went for a future-4th to the Raiders. I’d be remiss not to mention that Al Davis and Snyder are also batshit crazy (since I mentioned McDaniels), but I realy think this isthe closest trade scenario (statistically) we’re gonna see. I think Kolb’s worth more than a 4th in 2013, but this trade worries me.
The McNabb trade has absolutely no statistical comparison, as McNabb had many many more years of experience and was a proven commodity. But they were both raisedby the same organization and Kolb had a HUGE advantage in age and potential, as McNabb was clearly declining while Kolb could be a franchise guy. However, most people would have thought that McNabb was a guaranteed 2-4 yearsof success (turns out they were wrong) while Kolb is a relative unknown — he could be great for 10 years, he could be a total bust.
After looking at all these trades i think Kolb should go for a 2nd round pick this year and a conditional next year, although I suppose I could see a team taking a risk with either a second or third this year and 1st-3rd rounder next year. But I don’t see it going any higher than that. We’ll (maybe) see what happens this year, and if I’m wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. But I think this whole “Kolb for a first and more” is complete and total homerism.
Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever
Jason Campbell is most certainly not even close to being the best comparison to kevin Kolb. I think we just differ wildly on our perceptions of Kolb as a player.
Agree JImmy.
Campbell had many more games to prove that he was mediocre, not too bad, but not too good. Kolb has had far fewer opportunities, and has shown more upside, at least in the sense that if a GM is fantasizing, he can see Kolb as a jewel, so to speak.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
Well as I specified, I was looking at the statistical similarities. If you compare Kolb and Campbell, their stats break down pretty evenly, with a slight advantage to Campbell. But like I said, Kolb does have the unknown/upside factor working or him.
Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever
I just don’t see it happening. JimmyK did an article about this a while back, and he did a bunch of comparisons. Jason Campbell was traded for a 2012 fourth round pick after four seasons, in which he had completed around 62% of his passes, had thrown for 3,000+ yards twice, never had more INTs than TDs in a season, and had a passer rtg of around 83. Kolb has only played in 17 games, has the same completion %, has more INTs than TDs, and has a passer rtg of 78. Even his best season was only 89, which isn’t much higher than Campbell’s career rtg. Also, Kolb will be 27 next year, and Campbell is 28 so we’re not talking a big age difference.
That’s a quote from a comment I made earlier when someone brought up the subject (I should note that the write-up I referred to ws written by Bob_Q, not JimmyK), just to recap the statistical stuff i’m talking about. I definitely acknowledge that there’s an unknown factor, but that’s the only thing really working in his favor. I definitely think we’d get higher than a 4th rounder, but not a first either.
Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever
As fans (especially fans typing on blogs), we tend to rely on numbers, sometimes to a fault. We can look at Campbell’s numbers and Kolb’s numbers and say “Statistically… same guy.” But when you watch the game film, it’s very clear who the better QB is, and it ain’t Jason Campbell.
That is the point.
A GM is not going to look at numbers to determine who he acquires.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
And just as a little background, I’m not just some crackpot that overvalues his team’s players. I did a similar exercise last year with McNabb and had his trade value pegged almost right on the nose:
Bills – 41st overall and a 3 in 2011
Browns – 38th overall and 93rd overall
Vikings – 30th overall
Broncos – 45th overall and a 3 in 2011
Rams – 33rd overall and a 4.
Panthers – 1 in 2011 (imagine that, haha)
Cardinals – 26th overall
Naturally, the team they traded McNabb to didn’t make the list.
Hey, fair enough. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree here, and your repuation certainly does proceed yourself. You think that Campbell is far inferior to Kolb, and while I agree that Kolb is better, I don’t think the gap is as big as you perceive it to be. Honestly, we really can’t compare them. When Campbell had limited experience he was hyped to crazy levels, and so was Kolb last offseason. I thnk his hype hs died down, but I don’t think we can adequately judge him as a player. I think he lies somewhere between Campbell and Schaub as far as comparisons go, and I think this year hurt his stock. But if he does indeed get traded we’ll see.
Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever
And just to note, I’m not saying that the compensation I’m guessing on for each team is what they should give up. I’m saying what it should take for the Eagles to pull the trigger. If they can’t get the compensation I think they can (a very real possibility), I think you’ll find Kevin Kolb right back in Lehigh for training camp in July.
by JimmyK on Jan 31, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
THIS
is right where I direct every argument on the subject…
fans of other teams, as you mentioned earlier, are pretty down on Kolb, and hate the idea of their team giving up almost anything for him. They furthermore laugh at our opinion that he’s worth something…
I always just come back here…he’s worth ‘X’ to us…and we don’t HAVE to trade him. If your team doesn’t think he’s worth ‘X’, fine…we’ll keep him and have a great backup QB…
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
Very important point to keep in mind
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Just kidding!
Great analysis of the whole Kolb situation. I really think the Vikings are the best fit for Kolb, with their run game and defense- a team that can compete. Now, I don’t know if they are the most likely to go for him, but if I were Kolb, that’s where I’d want to go.
Eagles next starting QB: "East West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
I don’t see Kolb staying when there’s just so many other teams that have such terrible options at QB. Unless those teams are happy with those terrible options, I don’t see how KK stays. (Assuming CBA issue is resolved)
" You're f***ing out! " - Kenny Powers
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Jan 31, 2011 10:58 AM EST reply actions
I agree
fans around the league aren’t high on Kolb, but I think Arizona, San Fran, Cleveland, the Vikings, maybe Jax or Tenn (to name a few) could be in the playoffs if they had Kolb…
So they can hate on Kolb all they want, but how are they looking with Kolb sitting on our bench?
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
by jalarsen1 on Jan 31, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Next time
could you please give a little, just a little, more effort? Pretty please?
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
Kevin Kolb was voted the best player among those 800 offensive players in the league… twice
Yeh cause OL, FB, TE get nominated all the time….. Cmon dude…its either a QB, RB or WR….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
Sooo...
offensive player of the week doesn’t indicate anything especially noteworthy about a player?
Because OL don’t win the award?
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
Why even do the math then?
If youre going to do the math to prove something, at least make it relevant to the argument….OL almost (if ever) win this award…why even mention them?
The award is what it is. Can’t take that away from him. He had two great games. Does that translate into a 1st round pick? No, it doesnt. I just don’t put too much emphasis on shit like that, unless you’ve been doing it consistently in a long period of time. A lot of QBs in this league could come in this Eagles line up and do well. They have one of the most explosive offenses in the league…..
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
It sounds obvious, but it needs to be stated that: it doesn’t matter so much if KK is worth a 1st rounder, but if a team is desperate/willing enough to give one up for him. There are a lot of bad QB’s in the league, and most of them are on bad teams (makes sense). You’re right, two great games don’t translate into a first, but it shows he has potential. Maybe a team risks a 1st to get that kind of potential to upgrade their terrible QB situation.
" You're f***ing out! " - Kenny Powers
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Jan 31, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
The numbers aren’t all that important. The point is that it’s a noteworthy achievement on KK’s résumé.
" You're f***ing out! " - Kenny Powers
by PhiladelphiaEagles on Jan 31, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At least he has something….. not sure it washes out his negatives though….. I think it makes him slightly above average at this point.
7 games:
2 real good ones, 1 ok, 4 bad to aweful…. Thats average to “less than average” actually…
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
sure ill give you an extra good game...
I get your angle Jimmy, I really do….I just hope that the Eagles don’t scrap a potential good deal, JUST because they dont get say a 1st rounder. They may get a 2nd & 4th or 2nd an 3rd, something like that and I think that would be a great deal. Theyve had success in drafting real good 2nd-3rd-4th round guys..so…anyways…..
I appreciate all of the work you put in this post, I just don’t necessarily agree with what is proposed…. Although I know, youre saying this is what the Eagles would accept, in your opinion….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I remember the days when fans underrated the value draft picks, and it has swung so far back the other way it’s insane. If the best the Eagles can get is a 2 and a 4, I have news for you – He’s not going anywhere, nor should he.
Why
Just so the Eagles can have insurance?
So its better to risk getting say a Nate Allen and a Riley Cooper (or Clayton or Chaney) just in case Vick gets hurt in 2011? Then let Kolb just walk away? Thats crazy dude…. The Eagles can find a competent backup….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
You can say Nate Allen and Keenan Clayton, and I can say Reggie Brown and Sean Considine, and we can do that dance all day… and we’ll get nowhere. I’m just not the kind of person that takes less value for what my player is worth, particularly when there will be an overabundance of suitors for my player.
Calling him simply “insurance” is way understating it. You watched the hits Vick took this season, right? So who do the Eagles bring in? Chad Pennington? Troy Smith? I’m sorry, but if I’m moving a potential franchise QB, I’m getting what he’s worth. So yeah, for one year, I’d be content to hang onto my luxury best backup QB in the game in favor of bending over and settling for a 2 and a 4.
I think at the core, we just have differing opinions of Kolb’s worth.
by JimmyK on Jan 31, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeh
and that’s cool dude. Im sure half of the people on this site would be on your side of the argument and half on mine (although probably more on yours cause youre you), but anyways…. We’ll see how it plays out. The one thing we can agree on, at least the Eagles are in a Good position to be in. Not much downside to it. Its all Risk vs Reward.
FLY #7 FLY !!!
Jesus, Jimmy.
“Potential franchise quarterback?” Have you been abusing heavy drugs?
"You have been banned from Big Blue View...for rightly telling us a) what a shitsack blog we run and b) what a shitsack team we root for"
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
I know with 100% certainty that Dallas Clark has been the AFC Offensive Player of the Week. Peyton Hillis was also the AFC Offensive Player of the Week once this season, and he’s used a lot like a FB. Although I’ll agree that an OL probably isn’t ever going to win.
Still, the point remains the same. The accomplishment is nothing to sneeze at. How many other players in the history of the league won that award twice in their first five starts?
Im not taking anything away from KK dude...
… I just dont put a lot of emphasis on it like many people do. Sure he’s shown that he can be great…but he’s also shown that he can be shitty (on more than one occasion)….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
freakin Rex Grossman
Came in and got like 350 yrds and 4TD with the freakin Skins this year. We think he’s shit. He got to the Superbowl, we still think he stinks because why? Because he’s stunk more than hes done great…
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Rex Grossman has over 5x the number of starts as Kevin Kolb in the NFL, and has never had a game as good as the 2 games Kolb had against the Chiefs and Falcons. There’s no comparison between Rex Grossman and Kevin Kolb. None. That’s a useless comparison.
Kolb has had 7 NFL starts! Seven. And never more than 3 in a row. Quarterbacks simply just don’t walk onto NFL fields and light it up every single week. It takes time to be consistently good. It takes reps. I mean Jesus, BWest, your expectations of what a good NFL QB after 7 NFL starts is way out of whack.
your expectations of what a good NFL QB after 7 NFL starts is way out of whack.
And with reasons. Anyone who has been on this site every day for the past year will have the same feelings dude. Kolb was glorified as the next messiah. Did he live up to it? Some will say yes, some will say no, most will say, give him more time. Fine, whatever happens happens. 7 starts with D-jax, Maclin, Avant, Celek, McCoy…….behind Reid, Marty, McNabb (for 4 years)…… Not every other rookie QB comes into the league with THAT much bling around them. Expectations were high for a reason and he’s done an “ok” job given the circumstances. He still has many flaws to work on. Potential, sure…. We just dont know if its potential to be great or to be shitty. We still need to evalutate him with an average group of guys on offense, with an average coach, with an average team. Other GMs will take this in consideration im sure.
FLY #7 FLY !!!
LOL at "more time"
Seriously. I laugh when anyone says he needs “more time.”
"You have been banned from Big Blue View...for rightly telling us a) what a shitsack blog we run and b) what a shitsack team we root for"
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
Grossman had some great games
The reason everyone got on him is because he had stupid games
Look at his 2006 season, he led the NFL in 100+ Passer Rating games with 7, including a 20-27, 289 yds 4-0 td/int game.
2nd rounder for Kolb
Unless there is a 1st round switch the Eagles won’t get more than a 2nd rounder for Kolb. Yes, he has had some great games but, in those games he has had GREAT talent to help him out. Where is that offensive talent in Tennesse, Washington, Buffaloe, Miami? The best scenerio for Kolb is to land in San Fran where he has a running game and a TE and WR that will go get the ball.
I believe the Eagles will end up switching 1sts and getting a 3rd for Kolb. Which basically equals out to a 2nd. Kolb has not shown a consistant greatness. Look at Rodgers… once he was the starter that was it no question at all he was the right pick. Kolb has never been that regardless of how high many of you are on him. The Dallas game (regardless of the players he had) was the perfect audition and he failed MISERABLY. The Eagles team he played with was basically what he would have with the Redskins, Browns, Bills, Jags, Panthers, and Seahawks. with upgrades at the Titans, Cardinals, 49ers, and Bengals. If you are GM of either of these franchises would you give a first for this QB thinking you could get the same production from a rookie ie.. Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman?
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
this is my biggest thing as well....
The Eagles team he played with was basically what he would have with the Redskins, Browns, Bills, Jags, Panthers, and Seahawks. with upgrades at the Titans, Cardinals, 49ers, and Bengals. If you are GM of either of these franchises would you give a first for this QB thinking you could get the same production from a rookie ie.. Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman?
Its a real tough sell man….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a question
What would Jay Cutler’s value be RIGHT NOW. After the season he just had? Would it still be a 1st rounder? IS he more valuable than Kolb? I really doubt it….
FLY #7 FLY !!!
correction
I really doubt that Kolb’s value would be greater than Cutler’s……but I leave the debate to you..
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Kolb Vs Cutler
No Contest. Cutler has 2 make believe WR’s and Kolb has played with 2 very good WR’s.
Put Kolb in Chicago and Cutler in Philly NUFF SAID!
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
Cutler can barely handle the pressure in Chicago or Denver
he’d kill himself here.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
I've been waiting for this
very good Jimmy, very good.. I have no issues with any of your guesses or anything.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
I like Kolb
I still think the jury’s out on him…but clearly the jury is less out on him than it is on a college player with no NFL experience.
Kolb will fit well in certain scenarios, and likely won’t do well in others.
To the right team he’s worth a first, to other teams, he’s not worth trading for. Value him as you want to, but the fact is, there will be suitors, and it simply depends on if they offer what he is worth to the Eagles.
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
I didn't have time
to read all the comments so if someone already said this -sorry. I like the idea of sending him to the 49ers and including Alex Smith in the deal. Smith would make a decent back-up and under the tutaledge of Fat Andy might actually become pretty good. If he becomes good enough to take over for Vick great, if not maybe he gets good enough that his trade value goes up ala AJ Feely. I think in any deal the Eagles have to be thinking of a good back -up because Vick won’t go 16 or 18 games.
Cowboys suck.
Hmmm
there’s a few things to consider.
1. Is Kolb the answer?
If Kolb is truly capable of being a long term starting QB for us, we’d be nuts not to keep him, barring the opportunity to get a guaranteed impact player at one of our ‘desperately need to upgrade’ positions. If he’s not, then we need to get any value we can while we can.
I’ve gone back and forth on Kolb. There have been times when he’s shown spark and looked like he could be the quick release passer who’s accurate on short-intermediate throws, which seems to be what we need to succeed with our offense. And then there’s times when he seems to either display zero pocket awareness and gets creamed or gets skittish about the pass rush and panics.
I think that he’s probably not the answer to this question, but…
2. Can we win the Super Bowl next year?
If the team is ready to win, then we need to keep Kolb, even if it means we lose him at the end of the year.
2a. Why dat?
Because if we can win it all next year, we will need him. The question isn’t if but when will Vick get hurt and how long will he be out? His style of play assures that he’s going to take lots of big hits.
2b So what? we can get a backup.
Learning the Eagles’ system is like learning a foreign language, it takes a lot of time. Beyond that, there’s really no one out there that we could sign to be Vick’s backup who could come in and sustain a playoff run next year.
At some point, our #2 QB is going to start at least a couple games next year. If we think we can do it next year, then we have to have Kolb here or we’re in legitimate danger of dropping an important game.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
just a side note to this...
Both Aaron Rodgers AND Big Ben have missed games this year either and both had injuries. Their bakcups arent Kevin Kolb or close to. So whats the difference? Both teams are at the Superbowl? Whats the difference? Defense?OL? Well if thats the case then the Eagles need to upgrade their Defense and OL if they even want a chance at a SB regardless of who is at QB. You upgrade via FA and Drafting…..more draft picks = more positions upgraded….im just sayin…..
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Jan 31, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At this point
Our situation is a little different though.
Vick is able to win with less Kolb isn’t. Vick has that Michael Jordan quality. If he’s on, he can take a borderline playoff team and turn it into a certifiable monster. But there are risks.
You’re right Pburg and GB are better able to compensate when their QB goes down. The big difference between us and them is that we don’t seem to be able to shift into a ground and pound game if we need to. Our running game can be explosive, but it’s not the clock controlling sort of run offense that can close out a game if Vick goes down. Our time of possession relies almost exclusively on our QB being able to execute. Also, our system is a nightmare to learn and run.
I do agree that we’re gonna need a lot of upgrades if we’re going to be a legit championship team. I’m just not sure that what we can get as much for Kolb is as much as is being projected here. I just don’t think what we get for Kolb will make up for not having him here if/when we need him.
Then again, we could get bounced out in the wild card game next year, and it will suck to not have gotten something for Kolb.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
I agree 100% about focusing on OL/D, but I don't know about that QB statement...
If I need a guy to spot start a couple games, I wouldn’t say that a veteran like Charlie Batch “isn’t close to” a guy like Kolb. Batch has been really solid as spot-starter for Pittsburgh and the fact that they’ve resigned him 2 or 3 times, not allowing him to test the market exemplifies this fact.
But yeah, I agree that in the scheme of things, back-up QB isn’t so important. The goal is to win a Super Bowl… if Vick were to go down for an extended period of time, we’re screwed no matter what. Whether we end up 7-9 with Kafka or 9-7 with Kolb makes absolutely no difference to me at the end of the day. We aren’t going to win a Super Bowl with either of them. I think Kolb has shown great promise and he’s an upgrade for a lot of teams, but I think you’d have to be kidding yourself if you think this guy could get you deep in the playoffs. It’s just not happening.
hmm
I was being lazy and trying to not run through all of the what-if situations that I was envisioning.
If Vick goes on IR at the end of the regular season, then we’re pretty much out of luck, be it Kolb, Kafka or any of the other available options at QB.
It’s almost a certainty that Vick will miss a few games/partial games next year, . We’re going to need our backup to probably go at least .500 during that stretch.
Also, it’s not just a question of the quality of the players who we can get to play back up. Familiarity with the system is a big issue.
Beyond that, if Kolb = Batch, could we really expect to get anything worthwhile for him?
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
See I get that argument of ...
Kolb is a good backup, Vick will most likely get hurt (blah blah blah, a lot of them get hurt, Kolb got hurt, Rodgers, Bens broken foot, anyways…)..so the Eagles shouldnt trade him UNLESS ….well unless what…if youre argument is that Vick will get hurt for sure then really there is no decision other than keeping Kolb for a year and waste his value away (unless you think Vick is a one year wonder, then you extend Kolb at the end of next season; which is highly unlikely). Whats the difference between getting a 1st rounder (that may be a bust, may get hurt (see Graham & Allen) or may be great, will demand more money..whatever right you just never know with any draft picks) and a 2&3 or a 2&4? There isnt any difference because youre not willing to risk NOT having a good back up for 2011. So at the end of day youre saying Kolb shouldnt be on the market after all. There is no trade option.
FLY #7 FLY !!!
This is why discussion is good.
We’ve reached a conclusion. Unless we get trade value that we’re not likely to get, then we hold onto Kolb.
AR should have to wear a Flava Flav necklace until he learns how to manage a fucking clock.
great discussion, and good points
welcome to BGN, and thanks for being a rational new member…lol
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
JimmyK is a liar
When you posted the game film on Kolb last year I asked if you had the Ravens and you said you didn’t!!!!
JK, good work.
I feel if the FO feels that Vick has wheels for 4 years, then we should at least get something for Kolb. Risking, him on the bench, and not getthing nothing isn’t something I could understand. Epecially because they seem to love Vick so much.
I keep trying to read this at work
and it isnt working. I get like half way through and my manager turns the corner so I minimize and end up reading the same paragraph over and over.
I think the PAnthers will end up with him. A lot of the fans I talk to here really want him. If only we could get BEason from them
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
"Do you know where we are going?" she said.
"To solve the mystery of the eternal hereafter, I imagine," I replied.
-- _The Gods of Mars_
Great write up Jimmy
Really enjoyed it, I hope he can salvage his carreer at this point. it has been awful luck for him being on this team that had so much talent at the position.
By the way i tried searching for it but didn’t find it anywhere, what was the site that had all the eagles games that could downloaded? appreciate the help.
I absolutely think there is room for competition
99.9% of us thought no way was Vick going to take the job from Kolb but he did it. I stilt hink Kolb has the tools and mental capacity to be a player in this league. Hell 6 starts, and half of them for 300 yards? Yes please. Whos to say he doesn’t start playing lights out?
Now, I realize that it’s a VERY slim chance that he does, but, I wouldn’t rule it out 100% that he can’t compete with Vick
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Please.
Lining Kolb against Vick and calling it competition is like lining Eeyore up against Secretariat and calling it a stakes race.
"You have been banned from Big Blue View...for rightly telling us a) what a shitsack blog we run and b) what a shitsack team we root for"
Q: What do a leaky tampon and Sean McDermott's defense have in common?
A: They are equally ineffective in the red zone.
In case you missed it
Vick was pretty awful late in the year. What happens if we go into next season and Vick isn’t playing like he did at the beginning las year and more like at the end? At least keeping Kolb will at least be insurance.
Samesis
Once they figured him out it was over.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Meh on the figured out argument
The Colts were the first to do it and every team from midseason on tried. When we could get them blocked, we were fine, when we couldn’t, it was trouble.
Get them blocked and it doesn’t matter if he’s “figured out.”
According to this post, even Kolb is awesome (Falcons) when the line blocks.
So in conclusion, fix the line. Thank you.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Once teams started blitzing Vick more like it. In the beginning teams were afraid to blitz because they thought he would run right by everybody. Then the Giants in the first game decided to blitz him and he started looking more like Falcons Vick again. I’m just afraid that he comes in next year and plays like he did at the end of the year.
Samesis
Who figured Vick out?
He was hardly the issue in our downfall at the end of the season. I think he only had 3 games under a 90 passer rating all season, and one of them was the first win vs the Giants.
Nobody figured Vick out.
There is nothing to "figure out ".
Some teams played better defense than others.
Eagles OL played like shit at times.
People are fucking idiots. If someone says something, the idiot sheep masses will repeat it.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
by waterfield on Jan 31, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty awful?
Couldn’t disagree more.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
I agree.. I mean
we’ve seen how quickly players skills diminish once they get to the 31-32 range…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Hypothetically Kolb coud achieve as much as Vick, if he's in the right situation.
Direct competition, on this team, no chance. Running this offense, with this OL, in real games,Vick gets the crap beat out of him, Kolb gets killed.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
Preach brother, preach
I think there should still be a competition for starter
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Feb 1, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
highly unlikely
but what if we could do a player for player trade. like Udalango above said itd be nice to get beason from the panthers. but if the team wants a franchise qb we wants a very good young lb. that and free agency at cb and dt will be more than enough to help our defense.
Jon Hoke as defensive coordinator?
just read the eagles reportedly requested to interview the defensive backs coach, jon hoke, from the bears for the DC position. interesting. at least hes from a 4-3
One thing I noticed from watching the tape, is when Kolb is on the run he almost never sets his feet (I think I saw him do it once). I know sometimes its hard to plant and throw when guys on your ass, but even when there was nobody around, Kolb ‘faded’ to the side, you cant do that.
That's always been a weakness
that and throwing off his back foot. Doesn’t seem like he has the arm to be able to compensate consistently.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Setting your feet when a 275 lb beast is about to drill you in the ribs at 30 MPH is an interesting concept.
Are you willing to commit to paying the medical bills?
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
I touched on that, but like I said, he should at least do it when theres nobody around. Im not asking him to do it every time, just some of them.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 31, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Ravens?
Any chance of the Ravens trading for Kolb to use as a backup/future starter? I think they lack QB depth, I vaguely remember them trading or signing last minute in 2010 for some old QB to help out Flacco. Kolb only has a 1 mil salary for 2011.. could put serious pressure on Flacco in training camp and who knows.
Kolb wants to start. That’s a situation where Kolb could basically tell the Ravens they better not pony up draft picks for him because he doesn’t intend to sign a longterm deal there.
by JimmyK on Jan 31, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True, I guess Flacco gets at least another year.
By the way, any news on Jon Hoke? Seems like we are interviewing him and I don’t remember any details about him. I know he was on the long list, but I don’t remember a write-up on him specifically.
EaglesInsider Per @caplannfl the #Eagles have requested to interview Bears defensive backs coach Jon Hoke for the defensive coordinator position.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/moving_the_chains/What_theyre_saying_about_the_Eagles013110.html
(found a nice write-up from my 2nd favorite blog)
spuds just tweeted
the #eagles announced monday that the team interviewed bears db coach jon hoke for the defensive coordinator position.
weird.
Great work. Agree with comments above, if Kolb is worth just a mid 2nd round pick and a conditional, I think he’s more valuable to us as Vick insurance.
Just a seat-of-the-pants opinion here, but I have a feeling that Kolb is going to go somewhere and be a pretty good starter, perhaps better than the late-season Vick.
Minor league reviews at philliesphans.com. Check out phuturephillies.com for discussion of minor leaguers by a great staff.
Well done, thanks for a great post.
All those videos prove to me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Eagles need to upgrade their OL play. The difference between Kolb dissecting a D when he has a decent pocket, and trying like hell just to complete any pass when he doesn’t, is so obvious that an 8 year old fan can see it.
Either get players who can learn from Castillo, and perform adequately, or get a new OL coach.
Stop these fucking plays where 1,2,or3 defenders are bearing down on our QB unimpeded.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
I got that out of it too
and from the argument that both Green Bay and Pittsburgh were functional when their star QB was out. Why? Because a more-than-adequate line makes any QB look better.
Vick is clearly the bigger star for us, but I think we could go far with either QB if we can block for him. And play defense. You know, the building blocks of basic football.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Any team that considers drafting Jake Locker or Cam Newton in the first round should trade that pick for Kolb instead.
Who's Been Eatin' Hummus?
She passed wind, excused herself, and sponged off in the corner as I sat dazed and confused...
Hey Jimmy, would it be too much to ask for an article like this one for what Mike Vick would fetch on the market? I know it’s a pipe dream, but I still think it’s worth a look
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Feb 1, 2011 12:45 AM EST reply actions
Great Post
Jimmy – very well thought out article. Perfect mix of opinion and fact. Thanks! I agree with a lot of the requests for more articles that are similiar. I would love to read your analysis of where the Eagles cap will be and how much room they would have for free agents.
What about Carolina?
with Luck returning to Stanford Carolina might be willing to trade their #1 pick, and maybe we can work out a trade, or maybe a 3 way trade.
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
R2C2!
RIP JJ
9) Panthers – Andrew Luck’s decision to return to Stanford must have been devastating to Carolina. He would have been a no-brainer pick at #1 overall. Panthers GM Marty Hurney has said publicly that QB is their #1 need. While that might just be gamesmanship from Hurney, it’s hard to disagree with his statement. What should the Eagles get in return if a deal got done? The Panthers stupidly traded their 2 in 2011 to the Pats and drafted Armanti Edwards. OOPS! The Eagles would look for their 1 next year, and perhaps their 3 in 2011, but the Panthers have to stop trading away future high picks at some point though, right?
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/
Interesting stuff
Although as a Cardinals fan, Leinart never really partied after the hot tub photos came out.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
true
it’s really dumb how people still think one of Matt’s problem is partying, something which he hasn’t even done since 08 and something which doesn’t even affect and has nothing to do with QB play.

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