WINNERS have a good defense
by Joe_D on Jan 23, 2011 9:15 PM EST
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PrintWith last year Super Bowl's contestants being offensive juggernauts with premiere passing games and this year's Eagles team lighting up the score board with the best offense in franchise history we got in about 100 debates on the run/pass ratio and play calling after putting up a paltry 16 points in our playoff loss.
Guilty myself, I was/am part of the "Gotto pass to score," camp and a fraction of BGN was on the "Good teams have running games," camp.
The 3 best offenses in the playoffs IMO were Pats #1, Eagles #2 and Green Bay #3. The Eagles and the Pats both had MVP candidates on their respective teams yet both were first round playoff exits. The dichotomy between the two top offenses and the Packers is defense.
Let's throw away all the defensive stats, if you're a hardcore fan of the NFL like most of us, we all know who the good defenses are in the league. Yeah Pitt and Baltimore was a high scoring affair, and yeah the Jets defense didn't help them out too much in the championship game, but let's be honest. Aside from the 3 teams aforementioned the other teams got in the tournament, and lasted in the tournament because of their defense.
The Packers can get after the QB and they even displayed a lot of Jim Johnson like blitzes sending in DBs and attacking Chicago's protection schemes. They have a good NT, a stud in Clay Matthews, and a pro bowl secondary. You have to gve Dom Capers credit for having his defense come and and take out PHI, ATL, and CHI all in a row.
Yea the Pack have a nice offense, but when they can't light it up on the scoreboard against solid teams they can rely on their defense to help them win games. This year, the Eagles couldn't say that. I can't remember the last turnover or game where we applied a lot of pressure on the QB.
The Steelers are much like the Packers. They have some weapons on offense to score points but when that doesn't happen they have Dick LeBeau dialing up an aggressive plays and those 3-4 LBs they have go out there and make plays for them.
Face it, the "defense wins championships," holds true about 75% of the time. Good teams make plays when they have to and IMO the Eagles defense didn't even threaten to make big plays down the stretch.
As much as I look forward to seeing Vick play with our young talented skill players next year, with a likely revamped line, I REALLY REALLY want to see more talent on our defensive unit with a coordinator that knows how to use it.
That way, we won't be arguing whether 8 runs or a couple more completed passes would've changed the game, we can say a good performance from an all around good team finally won us a Lombardi!
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Winners have good D-Co's!
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
by MightyJoeBanner on Jan 23, 2011 9:32 PM EST reply actions
They also have personell to run said scheme
The Steelers have nothing but veterans starting in the defense and they’ve been there for a long time
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Winners have a very good eye for talent
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
I believe in complete teams win championships. Good offense and good defense. Look back at all the winners. I can guarantee the vast majority of the teams are at least in the top 15 in both scoring offense and defense. I called Green Bay the most complete team in the NFC before we played them in the playoffs. Look where they are now.
They are definitely the most complete
I think they have enough skill to take out Pitt
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I believe they will as well. If that happens, at least we can say we lost to the best. Two 3-4 teams in the Superbowl. Where are the days of dominant 4-3 defenses such as Buddy’s 91’ Eagles, JJ’s 01’, 02’. 04’, 08’ Eagles, Purple People Eaters, Steel Curtain etc.?
The problem with the 3-4 is...
it’s either boom or bust. 3 of the top 5 defenses i believe run a 3-4, but 3 of the five worst defenses run a 3-4. Someone clear that stat up for me please.
by eaglemaniac814 on Jan 23, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
Top 5 Scoring D:
1. Steelers 3-4
2. Packers 3-4
3. Ravens 3-4
4. Bears 4-3
5. Falcons 4-3
Bottom 5 Scoring D:
28. Bills 3-4
29. Texans 4-3
30. Cardinals 3-4
31. Cowboys 3-4
32. Broncos 3-4
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Thank you...
I remember reading this somewhere on here. I just didn’t remember who the top and bottom teams were.
by eaglemaniac814 on Jan 23, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.. If you have to play 1 guy that doesn't fit it
then you’re fucked.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
46 was a 4-3 D
White, Pitts/Golic, Brown, Simmons
Helps to have talent. White,Brown and Simmons were draft picks. Helps to draft better than other teams.
"What a gorgeous dog. What do you feed him?"
it was a modified 4-6
the SS played up in the box usually. The WCO killed the 4-6 and you needed great LBs to pull it off. But, yea it was a great D while it lasted
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Dude, the 46 defense is a 4-3 defense with the safety playing near the box. Still 4 D-linemen and 3 linebackers.
Yeah the 46 was more about
alignment than how many LB’s and DLman there were.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Also consider that even with the offense heavy Saints, their defense kept them in games and made a lot of plays.
It didn’t get as much talk as other defenses, but it forced turnovers and scored points. They wouldn’t have won the Super Bowl without an overachieving defense.
Yeah they had a interesting defense last year. They generally prevented big plays and got lots of takeaways. Not a stifling defense by any means, but a playmaking one.
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While I’ll certainly agree that a great D is only going to help you win a championship (as opposed to a bad D, haha), I’d argue that there are just as many recent winners whose offense was clearly the better unit on their team: for example… All 3 of the Pats teams that won, the Saints last year, the Colts, the Rams of the late 90’s, the Broncos of the late 90’s, any 49ers team that ever won… even the Redskins teams that won did it with their offensive lines. Anyway, those are just a few examples.
You need both. I’m not really sure which is more important between offense and defense (and I happen to be very defensive minded), but I’m not ready to minimize the important of an offense that can put points on the board.
by JimmyK on Jan 23, 2011 10:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree
We got to see first hand tonight. Mendenhall did gash the jets tonight, but there was absolutely no passing game. Yeah the Jets gave up points, but their defense got it together and Ben did pretty much nothing. Problem is, the Jets did absolutely nothing on offense in the first 3 quarters. If they could have sustained any of those drives it may have been a different game. The Jets offense did nothing to help the defense catch their breath.
"you cannot think this 6-foot man is going to survive a full season if defenses have 904 chances to knock his block off"
by EaglesandRavensFan on Jan 23, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Some of those Pat's teams had stout Ds
I mean you could name half the defense. But yeah I agree, it is possible to win with a dominant O, it just seems more often than not you have a much better chance with the better D
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Not sure about that
While I’ll certainly agree that a great D is only going to help you win a championship (as opposed to a bad D, haha), I’d argue that there are just as many recent winners whose offense was clearly the better unit on their team: for example… All 3 of the Pats teams that won, the Saints last year, the Colts, the Rams of the late 90’s, the Broncos of the late 90’s, any 49ers team that ever won… even the Redskins teams that won did it with their offensive lines. Anyway, those are just a few examples.
Other than the Saints and Colts, every one of these teams had top 10 scoring defenses when they won their Super Bowls. When you have a team with some big offensive stars (take the Niners with Montana/Young/Rice/Taylor/Craig for example) the defense kind of gets overlooked. They were some pretty good defenses on those teams, though.
Go Eagles!
While our D was not the best, we had our strength (turnovers and Run-D). McD sacrificed all of that to try to balance out our Defense, blitz less, and cover. We all saw how well that worked out.
If we had taken our Defense from the 1st half of the season, I believe we would have had a better chance to win vs. Green Bay in the Playoffs. McD basically killed the strengths we had to to fix the holes and left us with a caliber of Defense that had no scheme, no strengths, and no way to impact the game.
So do we need a Steeler defense to win the Superbowl? I would disagree. But the Defense has to make an Impact.
Balance is key
We didn’t have good balance, and we payed for it. On offense we were only lining up in SG and going deep, not really changing from that. We will never win without our offense and defense not being so predictable.
Whenever you know what someone is going to do, it makes it all that much easier.
I think our best teams were the ones with Duce, and young Mcnabb. We didn’t have a lot of playmakers, but we did have better balance and a good defense.
The whole balance on offense argument is dumb, it doesn’t really matter how you put points on the board as long as points get put on the board.
What you really need to be a championship team isn’t balance on offense, its a good defense.
Merry Vickmas everyone! * Falls into pile of snow DeSean style *
"It's simple, ... I'm always striving to do more. Whatever I accomplish, it's not enough. I don't get satisfied. That's not my nature." -Brian Dawkins
Honestly we ran the Screen to McCoy enough for it to pretty much be a running play.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
You don't need balance
If you can absolutely DOMINATE one aspect of offense. If you can run the ball every play and your line is so beast that the defense can’t stop it even when they know what’s coming, do it.
If your qb, receivers, and o-line are so good at the pass that they are just unstoppable, then you don’t need balance.
But when you have a leaky o-line and a quarterback still making his way back from a 2-year hiatus(not to say he didn’t do an amazing job at it), it might be prudent to mix in more runs so you don’t have the DC coming after you with blitzes like the wrath of God on every play.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
You really have to give props
To the Green Bay coaching staff. Never before had I seen a team that riddled with injuries and still come this far.
It also helps
when Greenbay drafts a guy . They take the best person available where its a need or not.
That's what I want the Eagles to do.. If we feel like we need to fill a need, we need to trade up as High as possible to fill
it with the best kid available.. If not sit tight, maybe trade back and take the BPA..
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Yeah, I mean I know they do that,
but like this year we have needs and I want them to trade up as high as possible and fill them
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Nice post
Just for fun I looked up the last 10 SB winner’s rankings in scoring offense and defense (scoring’s the name of the game, right?)
Offense
2009 Saints 1
2008 Steelers 20
2007 Giants 14
2006 Colts 2
2005 Steelers 9
2004 Patriots 4
2003 Patriots 12
2002 Buccaneers 18
2001 Patriots 6
2000 Ravens 14
Defense
2009 Saints 20
2008 Steelers 1
2007 Giants 17
2006 Colts 23
2005 Steelers 4
2004 Patriots 2
2003 Patriots 1
2002 Buccaneers 1
2001 Patriots 6
2000 Ravens 1
The last few years we’ve seen a couple of teams win with offense. That kind of makes sense, since the rules have evolved to allow for more scoring. But still, for the most part, looking at the last 10 years lots of teams have won with a great defense and an OK offense.
Go Eagles!
If you go back yet another decade, you have to go way back to 1990 to find a SB winner in the 90's that wasn't a Top 3 scoring offense...
Offense
1999 Rams 1
1998 Broncos 2
1997 Broncos 1
1996 Packers 1
1995 Cowboys 3
1994 49ers 1
1993 Cowboys 2
1992 Cowboys 2
1991 Redskins 1
1990 Giants 15
All those defenses were very good too, but I’ll still contend that you can never underestimate the importance of being able to put points on the board.
Defense
1999 Rams 4
1998 Broncos 8
1997 Broncos 6
1996 Packers 1
1995 Cowboys 3
1994 49ers 6
1993 Cowboys 3
1992 Cowboys 5
1991 Redskins 2
1990 Giants 1
I don't think that anyone is underestimating the value of a good offense
I think that a good offense overshadows a good defense. Scoring points is exciting, and gets more visibility. In the last 20 years I count 11 top 3 offenses and 10 top 3 defenses for the SB winners. Sounds to me like it is simply good teams winning the big game most of the time.
As a side note I find it interesting that offenses are lower ranked in the last 10 years of winners. You’d think that it would be that way with the rules leaning toward a more offensive game. I know that everything is relative, but still.
Go Eagles!
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