Overall lack of depth
by MG77 on Sep 3, 2010 4:50 PM EDT
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Despite Banner's assertions that this is a 'loaded Eagles roster' again, this preseason and last night showed me that this is a team that is generally thin on depth at several positions despite looking like it drafted a few rookies who are going to contribute either right away or this season.
Lack of depth - OL, RB, DT, LB, CB
You might add the QB and S positions.
The only positions I would argue that they have a fair amount of depth are at WR and DE. That's it.
Part of it stems for the fact that the Eagles haven't done a great job of finding backups in later rounds the past years. Here are their later round picks from the past few years (3rd round or later)
2010 - DTO, Lindlay, Clayton, Kafka, Harbor, Sapp, Cooper, Scott, Chaney, Owens, Coleman (Too early to tell although it does look like 3 or 4 of these guys will contribute and help the Eagles this year in a meaningful way)
2009 - Ingram, Harris, Tupou, Gibson, Fanaika, Fokou (Good chance only 1 of these guys is with the team on Week 1 this year. That's a poor job of drafting).
2008 - Smith, McGlynn, Demps, Ikegwuono, M. Gibson, Mays, Studebaker, Dunlap (Good chance that only 1 of these guys is with the team on Week 1 this year. Another poor job of drafting late despite having a bunch of picks).
2007 - Bradley, Hunt, Gaddis, Celek, Barksdale, Ilaoa (Much better job here obviously besides the Eagles found very good starters in Braldey and Celek. Not much depth though)
2006 - Gocong, MJG, Avant, Bloom, Gaither, Ramsey (Mixed bag although the Eagles have gotten some decent production from Gocong and Avant and MJG and Gaither have both contributed).
Basically the lack of depth this team has right now at several positions seems to due to their general lousy job of drafting late in '09 and '08. Don't expect the Eagles to find many decent backups let alone starters after the 2nd round in a draft but you do have to find more than 1 player who sticks on your roster 2 or 3 years down the road if you have 6 or 7 picks. Eagles didn't do that in '09 and '08 (to a lesser degree in '07) and it shows a bit on their overall lack of depth.
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Personally I dont see DT, LB, and CB that thin
We have 2 pretty good backups, good for backups atleast at DT. The Lbs have backups who all have starting experience. The Cbs have two very capable backups, and for those who consider Hanson a capable Nickel, then we have 3.
OK
-OLine now has depth. Just as good as anyone else. Our Starters aren’t awesome. But they’re good. Justice, Jackson and Herremans are all solid! Peters is OK and Wells sounds good. Howard(has looked good so far), Cole and Stacy are all good back ups.
-TE we lack depth. But have two good TE’s. I like Harbor and Celek is top tier.
-DT is also fine. I mean Bunk, Patt are very good. Laws and Dixon aren’t former all stars at the end of their careers like NYG’s but they are serviceable.
-DE is fine agreed.
-LB Best LB core that have had in the past four years. Gaither is a great back up. And the rest have game experience besides the rookies(Clayton).
-CB Ok we are not Vincent and Taylor. But Asante is stellar and Hobbs is decent. Lindley looks promising and Patterson is OK. Hanson was once a good nickel. I’m hoping Calvin sneaks on this team though.
-S Mikkel, Allen, are good starters. The jury is out on Allen but he looks good thus far. I like Coleman. Demps and Harris blow.
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
Revisions
I will remove LB from the group even though I am not crazy about the OLB depth at all with the likes of Fokou, Clayton/Chaney.
Add TE.
Keep OL even with the addition of Wells today. Ditto on CB where a combo of Hanson, Lindlay, and Patterson is pretty underwhelming. Same on DT with Laws and Dixon.
Weakest depth at CB and DT during Reid’s tenure with the Eagles.
I have no reason
to feel good about Chaney…he will likely get cut today.
But Clayton is a player, and has had an awesome preseason. Fokou is still young, and while I wouldn’t want him in there for a significant amount of time, there is a role for him to play, and I think he adds serviceable depth
TE is a concern if Celek goes down (wouldn’t surprise me if we bring in a vet from waivers)
I’m not concerned with our OLine after this trade for Wells. He’s a serviceable player. Between him, Cole, and McGlynn we have as good a corps of interior back up lineman as anyone else. Considering the fact that Herremans and Andrews are likely our back up tackles on their respective sides, I’d say we have reasonable depth.
CB is interesting. I like Hanson as a nickel, and NOT as an outside corner. Lindley and Patterson both had good preseasons, but I want to see them in real games before I judge too critically.
Don’t agree at all with lack of depth at DT! If anything we’re cutting some guys that could have made the team if it weren’t for numbers. Jeff Owens was a project, but showed promise, same with Boo. Laws looks like a different player this year, and I’m buying the hype. He looked better this preseason than he’s ever looked! Dixon is a big body, and a solid player. We’re good there.
I’m probably more worried about Tapp filling in for Cole than the DTs. Tapp has been invisible all preseason including the Jets game against a rookie Tackle. If Tapp can’t make a name for himself against a rookie, he’s not remarkable.
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
Our D-Line is solid. Great starting LB’s, not so great backups. Average(at best) CB’s. Solid Safeties.
Starting Offensive lineman are ok, backups arent. Good QB’s. Great WR’s. Good RB’s(Weave Included). Great TE.
Our biggest weakness HAS to be our secondary, and the fact that most of our guys are fast and small, we could get physically dominated like we did in those Dallas games last year. Who knows how Kolbs going to do, and LeSean as a #1 has its questions.
Our Biggest Strengths has to be our D-Line, and our WR’s. Our LB core has a chance to be special, i really like Stew/Sims together.
The only positions whose depth I have a problem with are:
S: 1 quality backup: Coleman, even though I’m not ready to give up on Macho, he hasn’t shown anything
QB: .5 of a quality backup: Vick
FB: 0: We go to the scrapheap if anything happens to the Weave.
TE: 0: Losing Ingram sucks, and we don’t have anyone in-house to back up Harbor and Celek. Maybe we’ll get Schobel back.
Overall, I think our defense has some definite, very solid depth; there are a few holes on the offensive side. I could see maybe picking up an H-Back sort of player for depth at FB/TE to save some space on the roster..
Nope.
Ingram
played on thursday. Or someone was wearing his jersey.
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
by MightyJoeBanner on Sep 4, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s rare when any team can be proficient playing backups for an extended period. That being said, I think the depth on this team is as good as it has been at any time during Andy Reids tenure.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
well said.
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
by alcatraz0109 on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
I wish I would of just said this. Instead I did a position critique. I mean can anyone name the best five nickel backs off the top of their head? What about the best five DT’s? What team has the best back up OLine? I think we have a TON of Q marks this season at a lot of positions. QB, RB, DE, LB, CB, OL and S.
-Can Kolb be consistent and patient?
-Can McCoy and Bell form a solid tandem and get us the yards we need to keep defenses honest?
-Can Graham and the rest of our new rotation get us enough pressure to A) keep Cole from getting doubled and B) allow us the option to rush four vs the Drew Brees’ of the league?
-LB Can Sims, Bradley and Jordan make plays? We know they can do their job. But can they cause fumbles, make picks, make tackles behind the line….etc
-OL Can the post Tra/Runyan era be consistent? Last year injuries stopped us from getting our answer. This year it looks like we are getting healthy just in time. What will happen?
-CB Is Hobbs consistent? Can we finally get a nickel back that can shut down the slot on third and long?
S-Mikkel was up and down last year. Our excuse for him was he was trying to do too much to make up for lack of talent at the other S position. And is Allen for real?
We are young and unproven and untested. It is exciting! VERY! If our OLine plays well(kolb will play well) and every other position is up and down I think we can win 8 games. If some other positions play well mainly our defense, we can win 10/11.
Take the name off the back of the jersey's and reinvent football as a team sport.
"The way I figure it, if my heads gonna pop off it's gonna pop off anyways" - Ellis Hobbs on the possibility of his neck breaking.
by MightyJoeBanner on Sep 4, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa there buddy..
QB- Is fine, if we lose Kolb and Vick then we’ve got other things to worry about than QB depth.
RB- McCoy is good, Bell will be solid depth when healthy and the 3rd RB is mainly for special teams, all in all were good here too.
DT- Umm Dixon played alot last year, and Laws has come on, depth is fine here too.
LB- This one really puzzled me, we have Bradley, Akeem and Sims starting, then Gaither is backing up all positions, keep in mind its been said 100x that Gaither would be a starter most other places, then you have Fokou who had alot of playing time last year and Chaney/Clayton whom both have been playing well, then add Tracy White the ST’s Ace and were pretty set there too.
CB- We dont lack depth here, we lack “star power” at RCB.. Asante and Hobbs are reliable, then Lindley and Patterson are good backups who both have produced, then Hanson, Harris or whoever just adds icing to that cake.
S- Are you nuts?? I think Coleman is good depth, he’s been lighting it up all preseason, I’m even going to go out on a big ass limb and say he’s going to be a starter by next season at SS. Then Harris has experience, and Demps has some experience.. We’ll be fine here…
All in all I think we have good depth, young but good, remember though the eagles always build from within so our depth is normally very young.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
Disagree
I actually like the overall depth of this team. Having good players in back up roles is really hard in this leauge because of salary and they get snapped up by other teams. The Eagles are finally entering a year where there is no massive clear hole. There are no Klecko as fullback experiments going on.
Cowboys suck.
MG77
I’m not trying to be a jerk….but are you ever not pessimistic?
by macjack09 on Sep 4, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Difference between being ‘pessimistic’ and saying that this team has alot of depth. After the cuts and the moves they made today, I would still stay they have litlte/no depth at RB, TE, OL, and S.
Does it make this a horrible team that will win 4-5 games? No. Does it make this a team that absolutely needs good health at a number of positions to win 10 games and have a strong chance at the playoffs? – Yeah.
If anything, this offseason really bulked up the defense which really did need it. They have 5 new starters on defense (4 if you don’t count Jordan) and a ton of new faces especially at LB and in the secondary. That’s a pretty big overhaul.
I completely disagree
with you saying we have no Depth at OL and RB..
Bell, Weaver and Buckley are good depth… Our OL has a young Backup tackle however it looks like if peters were to go down(knock on wood) Herremans would move over, and Wells would take his place, I’d be cool with that.. If Justice went down, Wells has experience at RT so I’d be cool with that.. Once again knock on wood..
TE, Harbor is like Celek was 3-4 years ago, I see no need to panic, we dont use 2 TE sets very often, and to be honest we use Celek as a reciever more than blocker so if (knock on wood) he were to go down, Harbor could step into that role and do sufficient, and we’d add another guy for depth behind him, Martin Rucker is on the wire, and chase Coffmans still there..
Safety is a question mark however I’m very happy with the 3 we have and I think there viewing this as (knock on wood) Allen were to go down Mikel could move over and Coleman could play SS, or if Mikel were to go down(knock on wood) Coleman could step in.. And to be honest I’d be worried at first but Colman’s a damn good prospect, I think he gets some time this year..
I will agree here and say we do need to stay healthy but that’s the way it is every year no matter what to win 10 games, were a playoff caliber team, and I’m willing to take that to the bank.
I’m not worried about the new starters, they’re all upgrades except maybe Hobbs at RCB.. and Sims and Hobbs have been here long enough to know the system pretty well so I dont really worry about that, Akeems backed up all 3 LB spots forever and we teach every LB every LB position so I dont really count him, but even if you do I’m not to worried about it… I even think Graham and Allen are fine, they’re athletic and smart enough that come week 4 or 5 they’ll be fine.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
You can’t say Weaver is depth when he is starting at fullback.
If Buckley were to be released, he would probably make someone’s practice squad or maybe be brought on as special teams but not as a #2 back
There is a reason we got Bell, he is injured alot.
Having a vet at TE would have been a good idea. Will Harbor be good? Maybe in the future but if Celek has to miss a game or two, I don’t like that the starting TE is a rookie and his back up is a special teams playing WR.
If Mikel goes down, they are screwed pretty much. Coleman & Allen are your starting safeties. At least last season Mikel was there to compensate for the lack of play opposite him…and it wasn’t pretty. It will be like that this year but not as bad ( I like Allen ).
Not sold on Sims. He is another high motor speed guy. Coverage is weak. Gets stuck at the line & on blocks. Still have no idea who is covering TEs this year either ( Jordan? ). The depth at LB….Gaither? the others are “prospects”…low ceiling prospects at that.
CB is a clusterfuck. I think Patterson and Hobbs are 2A/2B in terms of #2 CB on this team ( not in terms of NFL starters though )I don’t think Hanson should be on the field at all. Lindley is a prospect. If Asante gets hurt, this team is in trouble.
Thought Dixon outplayed Patterson at DT last season but they rotate alot so I have no qualms with DT. Except Laws being on the verge of a high round bust.
For being such a Oline guy ( Reid ) and having the all miracle worker in Juan for Olinemen, their depth and talent at the Oline is pretty lacking. Cole is a one game filler at G. Thankfully they were able to get Wells, who instantly becomes the starter ( says alot about the depth ).
Howard? Dunlap? JAGs & nothing more. Practice squad material. MJG? I would love to know if any teams made him offers in the 1 day he was a FA. McGlynn? The guy just hasn’t gotten enough playing time since he been here to really say much
Actually considering the amount
of times he lined up as a RB last year and given his physical abilities, I do consider him RB depth in an emergency. And I’d be happy with Buckley as a #2 and to spell McCoy, he’s a powerful runner and pretty much always picks up yards.
So the reason we got Bell is because he’s hurt alot??? That makes no sense, he was the only RB on the saints that stayed healthy for the most part, he’s just had some bad luck.. Bell should be healthy, he’s damn good depth.
Should Celek miss time Harbor could fill in just fine, Celek did when LJ got hurt, I see no reason to worry…
Mikels already said having Allen next to him is alot better, even went so far as to imply it’s as comfortable as he’s felt since Dawk left us… And really if Mikel went down Coleman’s a player, he was ALWAYS in the right spot at the right time, he was ALWAYS physical and is a fiery guys, I’d deal with Coleman and Allen at SS and FS if we had to, just let that duo grow and hope by the final stretch they’re rookie bumps are over.
Not sold on Sims?? you obviously don’t watch him that much, he’s everywhere, he’s what I consider a football asshole, he just wreaks havoc.. He’ll get his stats when we really unleash the Defense… Sims and Akeem cover TE’s, I’m actually happy with that…. The other guys arent low ceiling prospects, they’re actually pretty good, especially that Clayton(idk the one that did good, I mix him up with Chaney)
CB is most definantly not a clusterfuck… Hobbs is a viable option at CB, he’s a drop off from Sheldon but to be honest he’s an above average starting CB IMHO.. And Lindley is actually considered the #2 guy at RCB, that’s why they’ve started teaching Patterson Safety.. Hanson sucks dick, but I’d take Asante, Hobbs, Lindley and Patterson over just about anybody at this point.
You have got to be fucking a cock sideways if you really think Dixon outplayed Patterson last year…
You’re completely wrong with the OL. Peters is highly talented, Justice is Solid, Herremans is the b/u LT, along with Howard. I’d take that group at OT any day.. Herremans is the LG, he’s pretty damn good. Nick Cole started all but 2 game at Guard, infact I think he spent 8-10 at RG, he’s no 1 game filler he’s pretty good himself.. MJG is a quality backup and Wells is a starting caliber player who is versitile as hell.. Jamaal is returning and McGlynn is a good backup, to be completely honest he did very well.. Make no mistake this is by far our most talented OL group in a few years, and they’re healthy.
Howard is an undrafted rookie FA, Juan does miracles with those types of guys, look at Jamaal Jackson.. And when MJG got cut it was something they worked out with him, no team was going to really interrupt that really, they’d have to outbid us for him, and a filler guy at OG isnt worth bidding over… Dunlap sucks… McGlynn did very well at Center, I think should Jamaal go down he’d step in without a problem.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
wow 2009 draft looks really bad now that the 53-man roster was announced with everyone past 2nd round being cut except fokou who was fringe.
Sad but true.
Remember how everyone said it was the best draft of the Reid era?
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
2010 is the best draft in AR's era...
2 startes, 8 others making the team?? 2 more that are going to play quite a bit (lindley and Te’o) and a WR whom may be a good part of our offense?.. Not to mention a 7th round SS who just seems to be a football player, who will most likely get playing time.. and our Backup TE will possibly get time in 2 TE sets..
so thats 2 starters, 5 who will get a good amount of playing time, thats 7 contributing right away, then the other 3 are depth… Not to mention Austin Howard our backup OT, and this Calvin kid we seem to like..
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
2010 could (and probably will) blow 2009 out of the water.
But I’m talking about how everyone felt last year. It was easy to see the excitement: Maclin was a top-10 talent who could bookend DeSean, McCoy was the RB of the future, Ingram was going to be an athletic stud once he healed, and Macho, Tupou, Fokou, and Gibson were supposed to provide quality depth.
Funny how things work out, I guess.
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
Yeah I know, However I can see us picking up Macho if Calvin gets cut or whatever, he's got
starting experience…
McCoy is going to have a big year, I think we commit to the run more.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
What good is starting experience if you were bad during that starting time though?
I fail to see Reid running the ball more.
Dude, you're just trying to argue, quit trying to ride my jock..
Macho is a good player.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
You can’t say this is his best draft. Sure alot of the picks made the team but if you look at the quality of the picks, it isn’t that high. It just shows how low quality the players that those picks are replacing.
???
Quality of picks wasnt that high??? We have 2 starters from this draft, another 5 that should contribute(Cooper, Lindley, Coleman, Harbor, Te’o) in some way other than special teams..
Then we got 2 young fast LB’s that fit our profile perfectly.
Quality of the picks is actually pretty high considering we got some steals this year.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
You can’t say this is his best draft.
No we can’t, because THEY HAVEN’T PLAYED A SINGLE FUCKING REGULAR SEASON GAME YET! The early returns are promising, however.
Sure alot of the picks made the team but if you look at the quality of the picks, it isn’t that high. It just shows how low quality the players that those picks are replacing.
We didn’t necessarily replace players who are bad, we’re replacing players who are aging/on the decline/overpaid/all of the above. We made these holes to fill with young players.
Now, if you want to say they’re getting jobs because we made those holes, that’s more sensible. But from what I’ve seen, they seem plenty capable of filling those holes.
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
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