Eagles Red Zone Offense, How Much Of The Struggles Were Donovan McNabb's Fault?
by JasonB on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM EDT
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Over the past couple season, the struggles of the Philadelphia Eagles in the red zone have been well documented. The team has moved up and down the field at will, only to bog down once they get inside the 20. The reasons for these struggles have been debated to death and the blame for the struggles has been spread all over the place. It was Andy Reid's bad playcalling. The wide receivers weren't big enough. Donovan McNabb can't throw the fade...
Although it's obviously very early going and who knows what the rest of the season holds as far as red zone efficiency, there may be answer as to where the blame for the red zone struggles should have gone. This season, with Michael Vick at QB, the Eagles have scored TDs on 7 of 8 trips to the red zone. That's 87.5% efficiency.
The coach hasn't changed. The weapons haven't changed. The offensive line has probably gotten worse. What is the one obvious major change the Eagles have made since last year that might explain the total 180 turnaround in their red zone performance? Sam Donnellon described what happened with the Redskins yesterday.
Donovan McNabb seemed to blame the plays getting in late or the team not getting up to the line quick enough for yesterday's struggles. Anyone having dejavu?
Whether you're one of the Vick lovers or haters, you have to admit that he's making plays in the red zone. Whether he's running the ball in himself, buying time for his WRs to get open, hitting Jeremy Maclin with accurate passes... To me, he's the difference in the red zone performance. It's not like Andy Reid is making brilliant play calls suddenly. The team is just executing better and that starts with the quarterback.
Don't give me "it was just the Lions" or "just the Jaguars" either. If you think that's the only factor I've got two words for you. Oakland Raiders. Or how about St Louis Rams?
Michael Vick talked about his performance in the Red Zone.
"If you go back to my days in Atlanta I thought we always did a good job in the red zone and had a high efficiency and percentage in the red zone and were able to score a lot of points. My eyes light up when we get down there and I think everybody else on this football team does too. You have to go out there and put the ball in the end zone. You work so hard to get down there and you don't want field goals, you want touchdowns."
I don't mean this to simply be a McNabb bashfest. I still think Donovan McNabb is the greatest QB we've ever had... but there's a pretty notable preponderance of evidence here is there not? He's really the only factor that's changed in the Eagles Red Zone equation and they've dramatically improved. The Redskins are struggling in that department in and we're hearing that the playcalling isn't fast enough and maybe the weapons aren't good enough... The same we heard here.
Just for kicks I ran some numbers from the Football Outsiders database on Red Zone DVOA. DVOA basically measures play by play effectiveness in relation to the league average in a number of areas. The stat does factor in the quality of the opponent. The Eagles are ranked at #4 this year with a 93.3% DVOA. The Redskins are 25th with a -57.4% DVOA. Actually those numbers aren't even taking into account this week. So the Eagles are likely to get even better and the Redskins could actually regress further.
Just for comparison's sake, the Eagles finished 2009 with a 2.1% DVOA, which put them right around the middle of the league at #15. The Redskins were ranked #9 with 11.8%.
So what say you? Was it all McNabb's fault? Is it still too early to tell?
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Nice article but still a little too early to tell. They have scored TDs on 7 of 8 but it is only 8 possessions. I do hope this can continue though.
It might still be a little early but McNabb is having those problems in Washington it is a little hard not to say it was him.
He has the identical struggles there so far as he did here
It’s not a coincidence at all.
He even makes the big plays still.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Then again its hard to eliminate just how sucky the Redskins offense is outside of him.
And really, the defense is the issue here, not McNabb.
Phillies- Magic number is 1
Eagles- 1st place in the division!
THE DEFENSE DIDN'T KICK 3 FIELD GOALS
Face it, wherever McNabb goes he’s going to take McNabb with him. He can’t or won’t throw into small windows because his accuracy deficiency won’t allow him to.
The Red Zone is full of small windows. Every man has to know his limitations and that is his.
We are just about 20% through the NFL season. Like I said, it’s early… but three games is just one short of a quarter of the NFL season.
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That’s a good question. I’ll have to see if I can find that out.
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oh hello!
This article SCREAMS JOE D
Like I said, i’ve watched BOTH Redskins games and Ive noticed the same thing. They moved the ball really well up until it’s time to punch it in.
and GUESS what the Skins fans are saying? “McNabb doesn’t have enough weapons.” It’s the SAME exact excuse the McNabb apologist had here, and when McNabb did have weapons it was the coaches fault for not running enough.
McNabb WAS our best QB, the operative word WAS, but after watching him do the same exact thing in Washington whether Kolb or Vick ends up being worse, it was the right move to trade him and get the most value we could for him. And come on, the Rams? lol.
Im glad he opened up his excuse book though — not getting to the line fast enough is a good one but I think I’ve heard him say guys need to all get on the same page before
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Its not an excuse when its true. He only had one year with weapons. They went 11-5. And with just one they went to the NFC championship.
So no, I don’t believe its McNabb.
Phillies- Magic number is 1
Eagles- 1st place in the division!
i thought mcnabb could do so much with so little?
which is it? does he sck bc of no talent or is he the guy who can do so much with so little? cant have both
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
MCNABB OUR BEST QB?
That’s not saying a hell of a whole lot being that the EAGLES have been so bad for so long before he arrived, so what does that say. Remember the IGGLES? I rest my case.
com'on man
there may have been the iggles but philly also had jaws and randall…maybe not montana or elway but you have to admit they were pretty good
I agree...
Nice write up once again, but I agree with JoshuaR. It’s still too early to tell. I LOVE what I’m seeing so far but It’s only been 1 1/2 games basically. If the next few go like this I’m happy as hell, lets hope it does.
May I add one more relevant post
Vick is absolutely AMAZING on third down. Even on third and long, his capabilities make it hard for team to defend and I see LOTS of 3rd and longs converted as well as others. (hell if jackson runs STRAIGHT we woulda had 3 3rd and longs + converted)
Guess who keeps struggling in that department? The Redskins
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I noticed an unfamiliar feeling yesterday
We would get in 3-10 or 3-13 and I was actually feeling like we had a chance.
by Darth Banner on Sep 27, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I felt the same way
Mrs. D actually said it to me before I said it aloud. I wasn’t a fan of the switcheroo, but damn it’s fun to watch Vick work in our offense.
It's not the 3rd and longs I'm worried about
It’s the short ones.
I could not believe jackson did not run straight on that play. What was he thinking? The field goes up and down, not side to side, go forward not level! That was pretty frustrating to see a player of his caliber make such a boneheaded mistake.
by PhilsForever on Sep 27, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
what about the two minute drills
two games in a row vick has had two perfect two minute drills before half with 14 points to show for it. there was also kafkas game winning drive in the preseason which was in the last 2 minutes. this made me wonder whos fault it has been for the inability to do this for the last eleven years, reid or mcnabb.
yes! me too
im almost excited to see the play call on third and longs now..its like, how do you defend someone who can beat you no matter what you decide to do? their only chance is sending 4-5 guys and destroying our o line
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
+1
Think about the consequences yesterday. Going into half-time up 7-3 on the Jaguars would have been disappointing. At 14-3 it felt like the rout was on. In a league where so many games hang in the balance at the end of regulation, being able to run an effective two minute drill is incredibly valuable. Time will tell whether a new era has dawned in terms of the Eagles and the two minute drill, but I like what I see so far.
by dave in san mateo on Sep 27, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't even think about that.
That’s a good point. You might have something there. Andy Reid still does have really poor game management, though, so I wouldn’t really blame McNabb for it so much as credit Michael Vick.
Brent Celek is my boy
R.I.P. JJ (7/28/09)
by Carolina Iggle on Sep 28, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I lost $240
on the skins to win yesterday straight up. And when the skins had the ball in the 4th quarter and needed to drive I KNEW that he couldn’t get the job done.
I lost a bet cause of the damn chargers
I had Indy, NE, and Tenn. chargers are so inconsistent in September
Desean Jackson- Im Number 1, the real deal, The 1(0)ne to Watch.
Interview while at Cal.
Biggest difference - Vick's scrambling ability
It showed up in a big way yesterday on Vick’s TD run. Jags’ DEs got decent pressure from the edge & contained Vick on the play. The problem was that a big hole opened up on the right side of the line and Vick just scampered for an easy TD. Kind of surprised that Jags didn’t have a ‘spy’ on Vick in that play. Something I suspect you will start seeing again on select plays in upcoming weeks.
McNabb simply doesn’t scramble on that play for an easy 6. I don’t expect Vick to have that many rushing TDs this year but I do bet he has another 2-3 this year. Just a completely different fold to the Eagles’ offense this year in the red zone.
they did have a spy. vick outran the spy. look at the highlights
also, on the TD to maclin w/ max protection, the jags had TWO spies, a nickel and an LB on either side of the field, and dropped 5 and rushed 4 (the LB came up late and tried to force the edge from teh offensive right side.
this is the answer to whoever asked what vick would/could do if teams threw umbrella coverage at him. there were FIVE db’s covering djack and maclin. but even with that many db’s, they simply cannot cover for that long.
maclin’s route, from what he said, basically ended up looking like a number 4, (not the passing route ‘4’, as in an IN, but the actual shape of a 4)… dude ran deep to the end zone, took his man to the inside (rashean mathis, so not their scrub corner, either), and then came backward to the pylon.
the diff btw vick and other qb’s in that situation is that he has the arm strength to drill it and get the ball there before the defender can break. if there was any arc or loft to the ball, it would have been broken up.
more telling is that even though they dropped 7, initially, those two spies were allocated to vick, and not to the WRs.
its crazy.
Really? is this necessary?
McNabb is gone… Get over it.
We have only won two games. A close game to Detroit and the other to an awful time the JAGS.
This article is a waste of time. It will only matter if the Eagles make it deep into the playoffs or to the Superbowl… Otherwise comparing Vick to McNabb doesn’t make a difference.
This article seems like it comes from an idiot redskins fan. I think this because i live in the DC area. Every time the Foreskins (Redskins) win one game… all the fans either say playoffs, superbowl, or Next year we are going to be a beast.
its way to early to start talking or comparing Vick to McNabb…. McNabb is gone, give him his due respect and STFU with this stupid article.
by Eagles_DevilDawg on Sep 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
its his mom
Desean Jackson- Im Number 1, the real deal, The 1(0)ne to Watch.
Interview while at Cal.
WHY ARE WE YELLING?!?!?!?!?!
UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!
"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)
YOU'RE ATTRACTING BEARS TO THE STATION, ED!
Brent Celek is my boy
R.I.P. JJ (7/28/09)
by Carolina Iggle on Sep 28, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, this is necessary
And if you don’t think talking about McNabb is relevant right now… go peek at the schedule. It’s not “too early” to compare Vick and McNabb, it’s exactly the right time.
If you don’t like local writers talking about McNabb, I suggest you don’t turn on a TV or read anything in the next 10 days.
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Did he read the article
I’m not sure his comment merits a reply, sounds like he read the title and decided to troll, don’t feed him JB. If he actually read the article he’d know its not a Vick-bashing, we want McNabb back piece.. closer to the opposite really… anyone that reads the article & his comment knows he’s talking out his ass.
agreed
if i were jasoni wouldnt of even responded to him. loldday is right though i thnk wilma wrote that
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
his mom mad cause she cant do cambell soups commercials anymore
and his son is horrible in the redzone
Desean Jackson- Im Number 1, the real deal, The 1(0)ne to Watch.
Interview while at Cal.
Different look @ the same story
I may have to drop Akers for Gano in my fantasy league this year…
PLAYER……TEAM……G….0-29….30-39……40-49……50+…..FGM….FGA….XPM….XPA
Gano………’skins…….3…..5 – 6….0 – 0……2 – 2…….0 – 1…….7……..9………5……..5 = 26~28 pts
Akers………Eagles…..3…..1 – 1…..0 – 0……1 – 1…….0 – 0…….2……..2……..11……11 = 17~19 pts
yea, number wise they have almost the same # of kicks.. which says washington & philly are getting in kicking range equally, just that Akers is coming out w/ less fantasy points due to our ability to get 6 instead of settling. Gano may be this years Akers…. Just letting all the guru’s know, I’m calling this now. Gano = sleeper, which means take him in the 2nd.
D.AKERS IS BORED OUT OF HIS MIND. NO PRO BOWL FOR HIM THIS YEAR.
He’s about the only one who does miss McNabb.
yea Mcnabb...
Often looked lost in the redzone since his acl tear. While mcnabb still has the ability to extend plays, Vick can extend and excute on his own. Other teams know this and try to plan leaving Vick with a renovated passing game able to do either or. I may be the biggest McNabb fan on this blog and still think this trade may bite us in ass later on, but as soon as vick shows he can consistently win I’m sold. While the skins look like they should be 0-3 after getting handled by a jackson less rams team, blowing a lead against the texans, and beating dallas on holding call, we all know that with mcnabb at the helm they can easily get into a streaky rhythm.
Desean is Rampage Jackson on a rampage outside of the cage
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Sep 27, 2010 2:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So he will take them to the playoffs?
Good to know you are rooting for the Redskins
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
lol
How come everytime someone gives mcnabb a little credit they are all of a sudden a mutinous, backstabbing, SOB. Even though that credit is based off 5 NFCCGs and 1 SB apperence.
Desean is Rampage Jackson on a rampage outside of the cage
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Sep 27, 2010 11:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I say too early to tell, but it is definitely something that is more than noticeable.
I’m still not sold on Vick. I wanna see him versus more quality opposition. I am very pleased with him thus far though. Still wish we had some idea of what’s going to happen next year…
I'm liking Vick in the RZ
But the Eagles are a better team with better offensive weapons so obviously the Eagles are going to rank higher in the RZ.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Did you notice the stats I posted from 2009? The Redskins were more efficient in the red zone than the Eagles were last year. Same weapons for both teams, except the QBs.
Just for comparison’s sake, the Eagles finished 2009 with a 2.1% red zone DVOA, which put them right around the middle of the league at #15. The Redskins were ranked #9 with 11.8%.
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Predictable Article.
Why should I expect any less from BGN lately? Vick has 6 TDs and now he’s better in the Red zone than McNabb? And don’t tell me that the article does not state that, it didn’t have to, it strongly implied it. If you watched the Redskins game the last two weeks, tell me how not scoring in the Red zone is his fault? Instead of focusing on McNabb, why not write about how great Vick has been? You can only hide your bias towards McNabb and Vick for so long (example):
Jimmy K, wrote an article about how it wasn’t the O-lines fault that Vick got sacked 6 times. I wonder why he didn’t write any analysis on why Kevin got sacked 5 times? I’ve read comments from Jason and Jimmy about how Vick’s performance has been against weak opponents (before this Sunday, though factual statements) you always seem to use Kolb’s performance against much worse defense as the reason is his the next Joe Montana.
When Vick struggles(which he will), I can expect exhaustive writings on how he’s not a pure QB or passer or whatever. Simply put, this article isn’t really about Dmac, it couldn’t be……It will be silly of any real Football analyst to say McNabb couldn’t get it done in the red zone (especially with your comparisons, Vick and Jason Campbell???). My point is that, McNabb doesn’t have much to prove anymore (except for win the Big one) all this crap about his stats is silly bordering on stupid. Vick will never be half as good as McNabb. With as much success as Vick as had, I am yet to read an article on this site about his exceptional performance (I wonder how many would have been about Kolb).
Because the team against whom we are comparing our RZ performances is the team we are scheduled to face next week.
This isn’t trashing McNabb’s entire career. It is a comparison of McNabb’s and Vick’s RZ performances this year, and the stats show Vick is loads better in the RZ this year than McNabb. And the results happen to show McNabb wasn’t as great as he should have been in the RZ last year, too.
Want an article on how good Vick is? He’s played just 2.5 games this year, mostly against mediocre defenses. It’s not substantial enough. It’s still too early to make a judgment on whether he can keep this up. It does seem like he will, but I’m not counting my chickens yet.
Seriously, whine somewhere else.
That's great Bobby, but we don't have Dance Dance Revolution, so... you're dumb.
by alcatraz0109 on Sep 27, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You can look for hidden “biases” all you want. That’s dodging the point here. This is raw numbers here. It’s just something I noticed. I really don’t know why a certain sect of people here are so freaking sensitive about anything written about McNabb. I spent a decade wearing his jersey and cheering the guy on. Don’t even try telling me I’m “biased” against him. What does that even mean anyway? How is someone “biased” against a football player? That’s something people obsessed with politics bother with. This is sports. The only thing we’re “biased” about is our common love of the Eagles. And hatred of Dallas…
Like I said earlier, talking about McNabb this week is 100% relevant. Sorry everyone that doesn’t want to hear about McNabb… He spent a decade here and now he’s coming back to play for the first time. You’re going to hear about him. A lot. From everyone.
Oh and the article didn’t “imply” that Vick has been better in the red zone than McNabb. It 100% proved it, at least through three games of this season. Clearly it’s early and for all I know the numbers could turn around… but there’s a real noticeable difference. That’s not even deniable at this point.
As far as what you’re saying about Kolb, I don’t really know what that has to do with the difference in Eagles red zone efficiency between this year and last year.
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. I really don’t know why a certain sect of people here are so freaking sensitive about anything written about McNabb.
Same exact reason why some people start trying to talk shit whenever someone bring up flaws of Vick: as far as they are concern, McNabb is the greatest and flawless QB. So it’s basically blasphemy to say anything relating to “Johnny Quarterback is better than Donovan McNabb in this regard”.
It happens to a lot of different QB. Just off top of my head, McNabb, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning are simply immune from criticism.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
It's not about being sensitive.
I’m not being sensitive, just making an observation you yourself made in your above reply. “Clearly it’s early and for all I know the numbers could turn around” If you had prefaced your article with that statement, I wouldn’t have responded to it that way I did. So if you agree that it’s still early, then why do you seem to be drawing a conclusion? Also, there can bias in anything one does (not just politics), Bias is simply prejudice in favor of one over another, its applicable in sports, I am bias towards to Eagles against any other team in the NFL, sports analyst are bias more than they like to admit.
To your second point, I agree that talking about McNabb is 100% relevant (not just this week) whoever eventually wins this job will be compared to McNabb’s career that’s inevitable. However that comparison must be fair. Here are a few subjectivity in your analysis.
1. Forgive me for my laziness I can’t find the actual quote but you wrote it so it should be clear enough) paraphrasing, Redskins offense had a better redzone stat last year and it’s virtually the same offense. Of course, it’s not the same offense, no team is the same each year. The Eagles offensive line is not the same as last year is it? The Redskins had diff. play call, diff. coach, diff. personnel, so no it’s not the same offense.
2. You also implied that McNabb is throwing others under the bus as usual. I listened to the same interview and didn’t get the same impression. When he said last year that the Eagles was a young team, you said in one of your articles that he was throwing his team mates under the bus. Yet in another article this year, you stated that the Eagles were a young team. As long as you psychoanalyze McNabb (“in sports”) I will note your bias, there is no room for psychoanalysis in sports is there?
I’m not implying anything deeper than what I wrote in my response. I enjoy coming on here (especially on Sundays-Game Day) and will continue to do so if permitted. However, I will point a fault every time I perceive it as such.
1. Jason Campbell had a better red zone stats than McNabb, and it’s
First, I did preface that in my article. Quite clearly. If you didn’t see that, it makes me think you didn’t read it, which leads me to wonder why you’re responding to it. I wrote this as a preface.
Although it’s obviously very early going and who knows what the rest of the season holds as far as red zone efficiency,
So I prefaced it exactly like you said I didn’t.
Also I was not one of the people overly criticizing McNabb for the “We showed our youth” comment after the Dallas game.
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Judging by some of the knee-jerk responses to this article,
it’s going to be hell avoiding the laments of the McNabb worshipers.
That's great Bobby, but we don't have Dance Dance Revolution, so... you're dumb.
Vick's current confidence....
I think that Vicks current confidence, plus his versatilaty his making him a better RZ QB at the moment. I m not sure what the RZ stats were on McNabb in his early days but for sure his confidence in himself in the RZ has been low in recent years. McNabb doesnt take many risks and went for the safe play very often in the RZ and took the field goal. Vick has yet to throw an INT, let alone in the RZ. Right now his quick feet helps him alot, but I think we can’t really compare these stats until he’s seen his share of Ups and Downs.
FLY #7 FLY !!!
The funny thing is that
McNabb’s poor red zone efficiency has never really been in question though, nor is it a new topic of discussion. You can’t totally pass the buck onto Andy Reid’s playcalling or the lack of weapons around him. It’s a QB’s game and if he’s passing 60+% of the time, he’s GOT to get some TD passes when he’s in the red zone.
We knew he wasn’t all that accurate on short balls (dirtballs) and that his strength was the deep ball. We knew he almost never threw fades, nor did we have the tall guys or high jumpers to go get them. We knew the run play calls by Reid are horrific. See Vick in Week 1 this year where he gets stuffed by Clay Matthews. 4th and 1 sweep with Mike Bell this week.
Even with these problems, when you can only seem to gun it way too fast in the end zone or dirt to a tight end or throw a shovel pass to Westbrook for a TD for a couple of years, you know there’s a problem with the QB also.
We’re only Week 3 into the season admittingly.. and considering how we looked in the redzone in the preseason, you have to wonder what we’d be saying if Kolb was the starting QB. I mean, remember how last year we were always beating up the lesser teams.. (except for Oakland) but getting blown out by the smaller teams… so our true redzone test will be against those defenses.
by FlyEagPhilSix45 on Sep 27, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
This is not right. McNabb is like a hot girl that got old and now everyone
calls her a hag. I dare you folk to go back and look at the film from 2000 through 2004 to see why McNabb is the greatest QB the Eagles have had. He can no longer carry a team by himself. That’s the only thing “wrong”. He’s getting older. But He will have more 300 and 400 yard games. Not too shabby. And Shanahan will work out the red zone stuff. Don no longer threatens the defense with his legs. He may need to remember to go back to the old McNabb in the red zone. Elway even did that. Remember the old air borne Elway play in Super Bowl XXXII for a first down? Don has to remember to put pressure on the D again.
And don’t forget, some of the hottest chicks are in their late 40’s and even 50’s these days. Don’t assume McNabb will struggle in the red zone against the Eagles Sunday. This is going to be a classic NFC East slug-fest.
Eagles by 7
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
That’s fine, but the article was only in response the red zone struggles of recent seasons. It’s only in the past couple years that’s it’s become a big issue.
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What's fine Jason, the older chicks? ;)
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 27, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you seen 54 year old Sela Ward or 52 year old Jennifer Tilly lately?
Amazing what an older chick can do today.
I bet Donovan has a special youth formula for us on Sunday. I don’t expect him to be easy to deal with Sunday. He has a chip on each shoulder, one for Kolb and the other for Vick.
But at the end of the day, I hope the Eagles exorcise the ghost of dumb trades by laying a tail whoppin on the skins that covers both the McNabb and the Jurgensen trades!
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 28, 2010 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
McNabb really doesn’t have any receivers outside of Santana Moss and Chris Cooley this year, and Moss is a poor man’s Desean Jackson.
I really think the biggest threat is Vick’s legs. He can extend plays and gives us (OMG) SOME KIND OF A RUNNING threat in the red zone which makes a huge difference. I would even argue it makes McCoy more effective because his ability on the bootleg makes defensive ends hesitate instead of crashing down.
I still say that the best play by Vick in the red zone is one we didn’t even score on. When that Lions defensive end came completely unblocked right at Vick’s blindside, I cringed. But that spin move he delivered was absolutely ridiculous. How did he see the guy? And just make an NFL end look absolutely foolish? I don’t care what team that’s against I don’t know any other qb that could do that. I’m on the Vick bandwagon.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Agree!
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 27, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he ended up running for a first down on that play.
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tanman
the apologist also say that he can do somuch with so little.. i could write a book on excuses people have for mcnabb and ones he made up for himself. when he does good its “wow withno talent he is so amazing” and when he does bad “not enough talent around him” and of course last year his excuse was the players were too young and the apologist excuse was the play calling.
I made a bet with ALL of you apologist pre season and I said if mcnabb did really well as a redskin I would man u p and say i was wrong about him. I also said, and most agreed, that if he continued his normal struggles that you guys would own up to it. start holding up your part of the bargain, albeit it is only week 3, dont even start opening the book of excuses
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Joe, McNabb is 8th in passing yards and 14th in QB rating. You said don't give
excuses so I thought I’d give you stats. You could collect on your bet if McNabb’s stats were amongst the worst in the league. But they ain’t. So even with his “horrible” skills that you love to highlight, he’s still one of the top 10-12 QB’s.
Vick is better so far, 2nd in passer rating and 12th in yards. But you can’t claim Vick. Seems I remember you ripping Vick too in the preseason. You were a HUGE Kolb supporter. My hunch is that if Kolb continued to play, he would be BEHIND McNabb at this point. So there you have it. I used ZERO excuses. Kolb is your guy Joe and you know it. Don’t try to jump on the Vick wagon.
And you certainly have not won your self created bet.
But I stand united with you in one point:
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 28, 2010 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Im on the band wagon
And I still love Kolb.
Ho wabout the HORRIBLE 3rd down ratings and the fact that mcnabb has trouble punching into the end zone?
fgs dont win games, not does a ton of pass yards that amount to nothing.. he ha sonly 2 td to his name….and the 3rd down %? ewwwwwww
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Well, ok I can't deny anyone who loves our Eagles!
GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)
by Lombardi and Broad on Sep 28, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
With all due respect
I would think people would understand not only the versatility that a player like Vick brings to this offense…but how McNabb has no running game in Washington right now. Actually…until it improves its worse than the one he had here for so many years. It makes a difference…we have 5 rushing touchdowns to our name. That’s no coincidence considering Vick improves our running game. Seeing as Andy Reid doesn’t run the ball consistently Vick covers up for that
Very unreasonable
Joe_D..but that’s the thing. He DID do a lot with a little. That’s not an excuse…that’s the facts. Overall does he get the credit for it? Not really..in the end people look at your stats and judge accordingly. It doesn’t matter that the Redskins currently have a 32nd ranked defense…it doesn’t matter that their running game is ranked near the bottom of the league…it doesn’t matter that their starting receivers are 38 year old Joey Galloway among others. In the end…people will critique him compared to QBs who have a running game, solid weapons, and a defense that’s much better
When McNabb was here, he never had a consistent running game. That…whether you want to admit it or not is a fact…not made up. The Redskins may have a bad running game now…but at the very least one can guess that Shanahan will continue to work on their running game in their “new offense”. He loves to run the ball
Even teams that don’t always run the ball can run the ball consistently or have enough of a rushing threat to which defensive coordinators have to account for it. But with us, we have been a one dimensional team for a while now. The difference maker now is we have a speedy QB who can scramble for 20 yards in the blink of an eye, improves the running game because of his scrambling abilities, and his passing has improved. That makes a HUGE difference in how defenses prepare for us…Vick is a defensive coordinators nightmare because of the many different options he gives us on offense. You can’t say that for almost any QB in the NFL…
I assume you know that preponderance of evidence means a large amount of evidence? I’m just checking because you’re calling two and a half games a large amount of evidence and I wanted to be sure that’s what you meant to be doing.
Maybe you meant that the evidence was pretty convincing? I have to think that’s probably what you meant, because two and a half games, with the two being against the Lions and the Jaguars is anything but a large amount of evidence. I am absolutely certain that McNabb had stretches of at least 2.5 games where he was good in the redzone.
All this aside, I hope you’re right, and think you quite possibly could be.
Interesting...
However I have a better question for you. Why are the Eagles suddenly effective at running the ball? The players haven’t changed much…the playcalling hasn’t changed…the coach hasn’t changed. Wanna know what has?? Michael Vick…Super 7…the “Vick Experience”..whatever you wanna call it. You would have more of a point if this was say….Tony Romo or Brett Favre under center. But this is Michael Vick…and to make a point like this without even acknowledging what Vick does to an offense…let alone a defense, especially with his improved passing is disingenuous at best
Michael Vick Automatically improves the running game because of his own abilities….a running game that has been lacking consistently for over a decade. So we have Vick who’s basically CJ2k Lite with his speed…he makes our running game better, his passing has improved and he has good weapons. We have 6 passing touchdowns AND 5 rushing touchdowns. Count…FIVE rushing touchdowns. You think that’s a coincidence?? If we just put a regular pocket QB back there…our offense would become one dimensional again and we would have no running threat. With Vick we have a triple wammy…his scrambling…our receivers….and a rushing attack. That opens up defenses and that helps us not only in the redzone but on the field overall. That’s a fact
Andy Reid imo couldn’t run a balanced offense to save his life. I love the guy…I think he has great upsides but…he doesn’t know how to run the ball effectively. Vick…like McNabb in his prime covers up for that, but overall McNabb has been a pocket QB that makes plays with his feet only when necessary. Vick on the other hand is unpredicatable and much…MUCH faster . For over a decade we have gone without a consistent running game and had success…yet McNabb still doesn’t get enough credit. In Washington…they’re still trying to figure out their pathetic running game, though Shanahan might get it eventually based on his track record.
So in conclusion…instead of doing direct QB comparisons which really aren’t comparable…just be thankful that McNabb convinced Reid to bring Vick in(when no one gave him a chance)…and be even more thankful for how much Vick has improved. The versatility he brings to this offense is second to none and this team would be struggling right now if not for him. Plus, he covers up for Andy Reid’s one dimensional mindset
One more thing...
To add to my last post. Why is it that whenever Donovan says “WE”…we interpret it as blaming everyone else and throwing people under the bus??
When I watched the Redskins vs Cowboys game Week 1 on Sunday night Football, his receivers dropped like 9 passes right in their hands. In the press conference following the game, he said that “WE” need to work out some kinks and execute better as an offense because “WE” didn’t perform well enough
In the Texans vs Redskins game…McNabb played very well and led the team to a 17 point lead. When the defense gave up that lead in the 4th quarter….he said that “WE” need to learn to keep leads and finish games, and pointed to two plays where they could have extended the lead. But hardly any team scores on every single drive…fact is the defense blew a lead and allowed 600 offensive yards. Yet…he said “WE”
Now after this Rams game…he’s saying “WE” again, and suddenly he’s blaming everyone else? That is the way the guy talks…instead of singling out any one person or even himself…he says “WE” everytime which I’m assuming symbolizes that they’re all in this together. I think to say he’s blaming everyone else is nitpicking and it’s probably why some think this is a bashing article
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