Eagles Preseason Game Two A Sloppy, Defensive Affair
by JasonB on Aug 20, 2010 11:20 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintThe Eagles and Bengals starters spent the first half locked in a generally sloppy defensive struggle. The Eagles' offensive line struggled mightily, the Bengals shot themselves in the foot with penalties, Carson Palmer was poor, and the Eagles defense forced two turnovers. Jeremy Maclin was the only notable injury for the Eagles, he left the game with that the team called a shoulder contusion. He did look to be in real pain though.
First Team Offense Review - The first team offense didn't move the ball nearly as easily as it did last week, but to be fair they were facing a much better defense in the Bengals who finished last year ranked #4 overall. The story will be probably the "continued red zone woes" but they only got in the red zone once. Kevin Kolb had a TD pass to Jason Avant callled back when the Eagles offensive line was called for its 3rd illegal formation penalty of the night(Jason Peters, Winston Justice, & Max Jean-Gilles were all flagged). The refs seemed to be cracking down on illegal formations as the Bengals were also flagged for it in the first half.
The story of the night isn't the red zone however ... it has to be the offensive line, particularly the interior. Mike McGlynn struggled at center, Max Jean-Gilles didn't look good, and Stacy Andrews got beat to the inside on a play resulted in a rushed pass and incompletion. I wouldn't say the tackles were anything special, but the problem was clearly the interior tonight. I suppose the silver lining is that the chief offenders, McGlynn & Max will hopefully not be starting come opening day. We know that Herremans will be back & Jamaal Jackson at least has a shot.
The struggles of the offensive line really made it tough to evaluate the rest of the offense. LeSean McCoy rarely had any room to move and Kevin Kolb was running for his life most of the first half. That said, you'd have to say Kolb handled the pressure well. He threw accurately on the run on a number of occasions, which is something we haven't really seen him have to do yet. He was 11 for 17 for 126 yards in a half where he was absolutely under siege. He moved out of the pocket, extended plays, and handled the pressure pretty well. Kolb said the offense was "stagnant" in the first quarter.
"We were a little stagnant on the first three drives there. We needed to pick the energy level up. We did it and we were better in the second quarter. We got our running game going a little bit and got a couple drives. Again, we just have to execute in the red zone. I missed a throw there in the end zone and we also had that penalty that cost us. I think we did some good things; it was a positive day, but we have to start fine-tuning those details."
Overall though, not a great night for the first team offense and it all started up front.
After the jump, the first team defense and a look at the backups.
The first team defense was much better than the offense. They allowed a touchdown after a somewhat fluky special teams play gave the Bengals good field position and Hanson got burnt by Owens for long gain, but otherwise they were generally strong. I will say that they were aided a bit by some really poor play by Carson Palmer, who was picked off twice. Palmer struggled with accuracy and threw a lot high passes that put his WRs in tough positions. Chad Ochocino even complained on twitter about getting hit hard on one play that ended up with an Eagles pick. Seven points allowed and two turnovers in a half is something you'll happily take from the first team defense. Quintin MIkell liked the takeaways.
"Yeah, anytime you get turnovers and big plays, that's what it's about on defense. No doubt about it, man. That's a good offense, they've got some good receivers and I think we had a pretty good game. We had a couple picks and made some plays. They had one play on us but we came back. So, that's what we want to see at this point in the year."
I wanted to make a quick note about Nate Allen. The rookie got run over by Cedric Benson early and looked pretty bad in the process. Later that quarter he came back and hit Benson so hard the RB was slow to get up. He also had some great coverage on a deep pass to Chad Ochocinco. It was nice to see the rookie out there fighting back.
Michael Vick threw two picks tonight. The first was just a terrible pass and completely his fault. He was hit as he threw on the second one so you could maybe say he wasn't totally at fault on that one. Plus, the second team offensive line was even worse than the first team. So while Vick's stat line was a very ugly 1 for 5 for 6 yards and 2 picks, his protection was laughable. Still turnovers are always inexcusable and he has four in two preseason games.
Backups - Brandon Graham was credited for his first sack on a play where he and Trevor Laws got nice pressure up the middle. Keenan Clayton had a real heads up pick on a pass that it seemed J.T. O'Sullivan was trying to throw away, but Clayton saw it and grabbed the INT at his feet. He also delivered a big hit to one of the Cincy backs midway through the 4th quarter on a 3rd down pass. On the previous play Geoffrey Pope laid a big hit that separated a WR from the ball. Mike Kafka threw two very rookie-like picks in the fourth quarter, but he did have the longest run of the night funny enough... 24 yards.
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WTF........
who gives a shit about the game….wats the status of Maclin?? someone please let me know ir wasnt bad.
+1
I was at a bar for my fantasy draft. I drafted Maclin then about 20 mins later I saw the injury. I sure as hell hope it’s only a shoulder contusion as some are saying.
And not for fantasy reasons. I couldn’t care less about that. The Eagles need Maclin big time.
The problem is the OL Interior.
Plain and simple. Andrews gets beat too easily to the inside, Max had a terrible night, and McGlynn was really up and down.
No protection for Kolb, no holes for Shady.
Big ups to Kolb for doing as well as he did. But I got spooked when I realized, watching him jump around the pocket and sprint away from people, that I was thinking, “hey, he looks like McNabb out there.”
Juan, get your guys to get their shit together pronto.
Veritas Liberabit Te
true......
i mean they still got time 2 fix it and will be better but 2nite the O-line sucked…….even Kolb was being hurried but he did have a few nice pockets and im counting the TD even after the penalty so we’ll see…..
by goldenbird09 on Aug 20, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Things I learned
- Cole is the most impressive player on this defense and it isn’t even close. My bet when all is said and done is that he is their only Pro Bowler this year on defense.
- Allen and Graham continue to play pretty well and show progress. The rest of the guys drafted this year continue to be up and down.
- Fat Man and Bunkley did a nice job tonight as usual anchoring the line.
- Hanson played fairly well despite the idiotic commentary on the thread about wanting to cut him, etc. That goes for the starters in the secondary as well.
- Eagles’ LB besides Bradely were not so impressive. Jordan was invisible all night long and Sims may have a great motor but he is out of position way too often. Seems like on most delays or counters, he gets lost in the action. Also got pushed around there a bit tonight.
- My mantra ‘1 is injury is a real problem, 2 is a reason for panic’ is holding true for the OL. Thought the best starter tonight was Justice and he was just okay. MJG showed he has no business starting, McGlynn struggled to get much push and was lost on a few plays where the Bengals stunted/brought pressure up the middle, S. Andrews looked like the stiff he was last year. Getting Herremans back will go a long way but this group is one injury away even when he returns from being a below average group.
- Kolb generally impressed me tonight even though he had no running game to support him and made a couple of questionable calls trying to force stuff.
- Same things that have plagued them the last 3 season (red zone issues and inconsistent special teams coverage) were evident yet again tonight.
- Where was the ‘Pro-Bowl’ TE tonight? Celek was having a tough time of getting opened and you need him to do more in a game like that to help out yorur rookie QB.
- Anythign who thinks this offense is going to score more points than their franchise record last year is huffing paint. This will likely be an offense that moves the ball fairly well and scores their share of pts. It just won’t score as many as they did last year and it would suprrise me at all if the total drop by 10% or so.
Those are some big predictions after a half of preseason football…
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They scored 427 pts last year (26.7 pts/game) which was a franchise record and I have seen ridiculous crap on here all preseason about them scoring 28 pts or game or so. Not happening. No chance.
If they drop 10% in pts., that places them in around 380 pts or so which would still be in the upper 1/3 in the NFL. That is by no means a ‘bad’ offense or even an average one.
Cole in the Pro-Bowl is probably the biggest one. Samuel definitely has his shot if he get 8-9 INTs again. I don’t think he will because teams will make a point of staying away from.
Other candidates – Bradley (maybe if he can rack up the turnovers to go along with what will likely be some pretty high tackle numbers), Mikell (my bet is that he does rebound but just won’t the numbers that voters look at), Patterson (again won’t have the numbers).
After that I would be really stunned if the Eagles have another Pro-Bowler on defense. Doesnt’ mean this group wont’ be solid. In fact, I think the defense is going to surprise this year and the offense will disappoint people because of expectations of both.
MG has always been prone to overstatement. That was the scouting report on him coming out of college.
Veritas Liberabit Te
So says the ‘President of the Macho Harris’ fan club. Just kidding. What is that bold about saying the Eagles will score only ~380 pts or so this year or that Cole will be their only Pro-Bowler on defense. Neither of those are bold by any stretch.
A ‘bold’ prediction would be something like “Eagles will go 11-5 and win the NFC East” or “Kolb will throw 28 TDs/as 1-2 more TDs than INTs this year” Those are bold.
Regarding Hanson:
It’s the second week in a row he was beaten badly on a deep ball. He stunk when he returned from suspension last year – Patrick Crayton ate his lunch. And he’s scheduled to make $2 million this season. I disagree that he played fairly well tonight, and in my opinion he hasn’t earned the right to automatically make this team with the way he has played so far, either in camp or the first 2 preseason games. I’d have to imagine his job is very much in question right now, especially considering the fine play they ARE getting from Dmitri Patterson.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
He did get beat on that deep ball to Owns but I also wonder where the safety help was on that play too. Have to go back and look at it.
Patterson has outplayed him but this isn’t exactly a team that has a ‘load of riches’ at CB as they have generally had the previous decade or so.
Who cares if Hanson is scheduled to make $2M. That’s irrevelant unless the Eagles want to save some scheckels.
He did get beat on that deep ball to Owns but I also wonder where the safety help was on that play too
Safety help or not, he got torched. There are going to be times you don’t get safety help. Owens beat him with ease, and it’s not like he’s a burner these days.
Who cares if Hanson is scheduled to make $2M. That’s irrevelant unless the Eagles want to save some scheckels.
I certainly don’t, but it’s not my money. If you have 2 players that have the same ability, but one guy makes $2M and the other only makes $300K, it’s a pretty easy decision which guy goes.
Sheldon Brown stunk down the stretch too last year and their were alot of guys who played poorly against the Boys in the final 2 games
And Sheldon Brown is gone.
I don’t want to overreact after a bad preseason game, but in my opinion, Hanson’s job is far from safe. At the very least, I’d hardly call it “idiotic” to feel that way.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
So if they cut Hanson there backup CBs are Patterson/Lindley/Harris?/Pope?
That is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
If your backup CB is Joselio Hanson, you're just as screwed as if you didn't have a backup CB at all.
Guys like Patterson, Lindley, and Harris can actually get better and improve as CBs. Harris is in his 2nd year and we have yet to see him take reps in a game as a CB; he might surprise. Lindley is a rookie and has shown flashes, and may develop into a solid CB. Patterson hasn’t had enough opportunities but he has potential
Hanson is who he is: a guy who gets burnt more often than breakfast toast. He’s not going to suddenly turn into a starting CB. He’s been in the league for long enough now that you know what you’re going to get from him, and it ain’t pretty.
The love affair with Macho Harris on here is baffling. Almost as baffling as with Ingram. He can’t even get healthy enough to stay on the field and what leads you to believe there is any reason that he could be a starting CB in this league? Harris might even get cut.
Yes Lindlay and Patterson might improve but going into a season with them as your staring nickel and dime CBs. This was going to be a transition season for this group anyways especially after they used their high pick on a FS and not a CB.
Didn’t help when Jackson went down either. This is likely a group that as a whole is going to be a weakness but making a move so that you even remove what little depth you have makes no sense.
I don't think you understand what the situation with Hanson is:
He sucks. He’s a complete liability. It gets proved time and again, in 2009, and now in the preseason. He’s almost completely worthless out there.
He was playing hurt out there last year. Yeah he has looked so-so so far. I don’t understand though why people want to cut him for the likes of Harris or Pope?!
I don’t think anyone is trying to make a case for Pope. And I think people would like to see Harris earn it rather than just be handed a spot on this team. What people are saying is that Hanson has looked bad, and honestly, I can’t disagree. He’s been very disappointing.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
Harris hasn’t been able to get on the field and he STUNK last year whether it was on special teams coverage, KR, or as a coverage guy. Only thing he showed is that he can tackle well.
He was starting as a rookie at the highest possible level in football at a position he never played in his life. I think it’s fair to say he wasn’t exactly put in a great situation to succeed.
For the record, by the way, I personally think Hanson is still likely to make the team. I just took issue with the assertion that any commentary questioning his lock status was “idiotic.”
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
http://twitter.com/caplannfl/status/21722259562
Adam Caplan thinks he’s a lock for the team and although a lot of us have been disappointed with him, he has been playing at a spot he won’t be in the regular when he got burnt both times.
Joselio's STILL earning money from the 08 Dallas game...
Will he be the backup safety come the regular season?
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"Right, a ball of hot flaming gas that collapses upon itself." -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 21, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Patterson and Lindley have outplayed Hanson. Macho has been out for the past few weeks with the hammy issue, so he gets an incomplete. Pope is gone.
Am I 100% comfortable with Patterson or Lindley as the nickle corner? No, I’m not. But I’m less comfortable at this point with Hanson.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
But that is not the issue though. Maybe Lindlay/Patterson beats out Hanson for the nickel spot.
The issue is that you have two older starting CBs (one who is coming off a serioius injury and another who gets his share of naggin injuries especially to his legs) and it is not likely that Hobbs/Samuel will both start 16 G.
Sheldon Brown stunk down the stretch too last year and their were alot of guys who played poorly against the Boys in the final 2 games.
I am not a Hanson guy by any stretch but I would much rather see a guy like Macho Harris go over a guy like Hanson.
Hanson can barely play nickel corner.
If you’re in any kind of situation where you need him to start as an outside CB, you’re absolutely screwed. I’d rather have a rookie filling in than Hanson, to be honest. He’s just awful.
Hanson did not play that bad last night
He had some good tackles and got beat deep, but overall I was not awful and is not awful. The guy has proven he can play. He will be just fine as a nickel corner. People are blowing his preseason way out of proportion.
by PhilsForever on Aug 21, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm a little easy on Sims
1. I am a little biased since I was a huge fan of him coming out of FSU and he is my favorite Eagle next to Cole.
2. Most players that come to one team directly from another team (i.e. trade or FA) usually struggle for the first bunch of games or even season. For example, Asante had 4 INTs his first year, then 9 his second. Or Jason was bad in the beginning of the year, but around the end of the season our O-Line depended on him.
3. The Eagles defensive system isn’t exactly LB friendly. Its based more around run stopping from the DTs, Pass rushing from the DEs, and coverage from the secondary. The LBs aren’t really deep into that equation.
Personally I think Sims will end up leading the team in tackles. But I don’t expect him to be here beyond this year due to Andy’s instability of LBs over the years.
How bout
We spend 9/13 picks in next years draft on I-oline? Well if we can muster up 13 picks of cor
urse lol
by Desean Da Man on Aug 20, 2010 11:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
My observations:
- Stewart Bradley is a G. Simply put, he might be the best player on defense this year, maybe even better than Trent Cole. He is far and away the best linebacker on the team. That hit on Chad Ochocinco was just brutal. After they smacked Maclin, I was glad to see some retaliation.
- The defense as a whole was hitting really hard tonight. Was this a point of emphasis for Sean McDermott this year? It seemed as if everyone was trying to crush a Bengals WR and knock the ball loose, and some were successful. I like aggressive defense, and was generally encouraged by this.
- The interior OL is garbage without Jamaal Jackson and Todd Herremans. Simply put, if they are out for an extended period of time in the regular season, we are screwed. The tackles are better, but Jason Peters continues to show why he is mostly an overrated LT: he is a false-start machine. Kolb would have had a TD added to his stat line had it not been for Peters tonight. Definitely not something you want to see out of your multi-million dollar Pro Bowl tackle. I was against the Peters trade when it happened, and I still think they should have drafted Michael Oher with that pick instead of trading it for Jason Peters. Stuff like this makes only reinforces that belief for me.
- Joselio Hanson simply cannot play CB in the NFL. He might be able to play nickel CB, but even that, I think, can be better filled by someone like Patterson, Lindley, or even Pope. If I were the Eagles, I’d simply cut him.
- Kolb was actually impressive today, if you consider that his O-Line was constantly allowing linemen to flood the pocket. He’s showing scrambling ability that is almost McNabb-esque, and his improvisational passing outside of the pocket is quite impressive. I came away very pleased with Kolb tonight.
- Michael Vick looked really, really, really bad out there. I mean, wow. They should just make him a RB, because he simply doesn’t look like an NFL QB out there. Once he loses his speed, I don’t think there’s any way he keeps his job in the NFL. I was against the signing from the start, and I still am puzzled why they ever decided to get this guy. He’s a terrible passer, and he’s only going to get slower as a runner with every year. He’s a distraction and a waste of time. They shouldn’t have even bothered with him in the first place. There is absolutely nothing good that can come out of the Vick situation anymore, imho.
Jason Peters continues to show why he is mostly an overrated LT: he is a false-start machine. Kolb would have had a TD added to his stat line had it not been for Peters tonight.
He doesn’t have a false start in the preseason yet. The TD was called back because of an illegal formation penalty on Peters, MJG, and Justice. Not just Peters. That penalty plagued us all night.
Actually as Siragusa explained, it was on Max Jean. The LT lines up on the LG, so if the LG is off the line then the LT will be by default.
That said, Peters was flagged for the same penalty earlier. No false starts though.
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Lindley or Pope?! the man who got beat on a bomb the previoius week on a simple deepout where the WR ran right by him. C’mon man.
2nd quarter
We finally showed up. And we got the TD…well what would’ve been a TD if it weren’t for that penalty.
by LegendKnight22 on Aug 21, 2010 12:12 AM EDT reply actions
Did I miss something with Sims?
My friend texts me that ‘Sims was a beast’ tonight. Really? Didnt’ see him do much either way tonight.
Like:
-Defense: Outside of Hanson getting burnt, defense played really well. Benson was held to 3.0 yards per carry and if that bomb to TO get taken out, Palmer only had a 5.7 YPA. And that was without Samuels to boot.
-Kolb: He showed real poise; avoid pressure and getting the ball out. He never had more than two seconds in the pocket because of the offensive line, so fact that he went for 12/17, 126 yards is really impressive.
Dislike:
O-Line: Holy hell, put Herreman in bubblewrap for rest of the season, the line NEEDS him. The interior was complete crap. MJG should never, ever start a game for the Eagles, Mike McGlynn is our third string center and he played like it, and Stacy Andrews couldn’t block a wet paper towel. Plus all the bloody illegal formation penalties. Damn, you people been playing in the line your entire lives and you can’t keep straight in a line? Seriously people?
QBs not name Kolb: Vick and Kafta went for a combined 5 for 17, 36 passing yards, and 4 picks. Holy hell… I understand they played behind bad lines, but that shouldn’t be that bad. Never start a game for the Eagles you two. Please. I might consider suicide if you do. And I dislike dying.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Look on the bright side
At least now we know there will probably never, ever be a quarterback controversy in Philly this year.
I sure as hell know I don’t want anyone but #4 under center for the Eagles this year.
I just have a feeling like the refs were trying to prove something with all the illegal formations tonight. Both teams were flagged multiple times. It may have been one of those things that hadn’t been called tightly in past years, but they’re calling tighter this year.
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In defense of the OL
They played one a pretty good DL tonight that clearly was fired up and motivated to play at home in what is their most meaningful preseason game.
This same line performed fairly adequately against the Jags the weak before. Have a better idea when they play another mediocre DL the Chiefs have.
That comment reads like:
“It’s okay that they were getting tossed all over the field tonight, because they were playing a good, motivated defensive line. They’ll be better against teams that suck.”
Nope.
Bengals stink; OLine comments
I don’t know why anyone thinks the Bengals are good. Their secondary is weak, their wide receivers are old and overrated, and their QB is also old and over-rated. Their defensive front 7 is good, and their power running game is decent, but other than that I think they’ll struggle. 8-8, 7-9 or so.
Interestingly, Peters and Justice said in post-game that the overhead photos showed the line lining up the same way all night, no difference in distance from the line. Either they’re getting a break on the other plays, or the officials missed those calls.
Minor league reviews at philliesphans.com. Also check out http://phillychuck.blogspot.com/ for prospect pics and analysis.
Yeah, I got the feeling like the refs were squeezing both lines.
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still no production from
our back up tight ends, LB not named Bradley or Clayton, most of the offensive Linemen, special teams.
Let's get it Birds.
So Kolb's why Celek and co. aren't doing anything?
what?
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
by alcatraz0109 on Aug 22, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
What chance did either backup TE have? Look at the stat lines of the QBs…
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Say what you want
They got 3 tuddys, we got 3 FGs. We didn’t have enough want to. Couldn’t be more clear than on our first 3rd and 1. The Eagles simply have no heart when it comes to running the ball. There is no fight, no pride, no effort. Reid and Morningwheg accept mediocrity in the run game. In fact, they accept FGs as a ‘win’ on a possession.
This is such a problem now I’m beginning to question whether Castillo is the right OL coach. Our OL clearly aren’t instilled with the necessary fight. Peters doesn’t have it, or anywhere close to it. MAYBE Herremans. Yes, it’s just a preseason game, but this is systemic. Every year…almost every game.
If the Bengals stink, why did they own us? The Birds showed no interest in winning. Coaching or otherwise.
God
Forgot about Vick. He sucks. Period. Sucks donkey dick and needs to check his dizzy daydreams about starting. Herpes on the brain for that piece of shit.
Fuck...just watching the game on DVR
We can’t score against subs in the red zone.
Seriously. No fucking heart. And an atmosphere of accepting mediocrity. Another season of this and people need to lose their jobs. I question all of these guys’ desire to be great…and the coaches ability to put them in the position to be great.
‘Explosive offense’ my ass. I don’t want to hear that from anyone again until throw up 40 on someone. Predictable, weak, “as usual” offense is more like it. We need winners, not “we need work on thats”. Christ
I'm holding my breath...
that Marty and Andy didn’t want to tip their play book. New team, same story..sadly when it comes to running the ball. I would rather watch them try and run the ball three straight downs than the dink and dunk crap.
I heart Dawkins
They ran the ball well in the first game. You’re worried over two preseason quarters?
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i dont know what to think of kolb
but its not despair anymore. he has great pocket awareness. he looks like he could be a good qb. but im impartial as of now
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I’m officially worried about the offense. Whether it’s due to stupid penalties or not, no TDs is no TDs.
I’ll watch my DVR of it tonight. Glad to hear Maclin should be ok, and glad that it sounds like Kolb was competent.
I realize people will analyze these games
But, some of you are ready to jump off the bridge before the season even starts! Geez, guys it is just the preseason. Relax.
I am not convinced that there has been any improvement due to the Eagles’ “retooling”.
Still seeing more FG attempts that TDs, still having to groan through unconverted 3-1’s. Not sold on this bill of goods yet.
"Let your Cleveland hang out!!!" *tm
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