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Inconvient truth about Brandon Graham and Nate Allen



Let me first start by saying that I think he will be a phenomenal player in the NFL. I hope they compare him to Hue Douglass, Jerome Brown, Reggie Wight and other greats.

However lets get back to reality for just a few minuets. He's a rookie DE coming out of a 3-4 Defence in Michigan that wasn't that good. For those of you who know just a bit about football 3-4 and 4-3 DEs are 2 different positions. Sure the object is the same get sacks and tackle the running back for a loss however in a 4-3 system you're asked to not shake off the block but, to take the block square and be able to play 2 gaps and let the people behind you make the play. That may not sound like much but it's like trying to take everything this young man has learned and wiping the slate clean.

One of my other concerns is he's a monster, plain and simple he's been bigger stronger faster then everyone he's ever faced his entire football life, guess what that WILL NOT happen at this level the NFL is a combination of the biggest strongest fastest men in the world.

Don't worry about his progression and weather he is in camp or he's not . As long as he's in the weight room studying film and has his nose in the playbook he can get away with it.

Why shouldn'tt you worry about him getting as meany reps as he can... ( This is the part people don't want to admit ) He's a rotational DE behind Parker who at this point and time is #1 on the Depth Chart ( But I think the coaching staff is looking for a chance to give the job to the following guy ) and #2 is Tapp. who is a monster DE who suffered greatly from a horrid Seahawks secondary (only posting something like 4 sacks ) and still had 16+ QB hurries.

Star-divide

 

On to Nate Allen. I didn't have the pleasure of watching his collage games (except a few highlight films) but, the Philly coaching staff saw enough of this kid to know what they got.

Like it or not Nate Allen is the key to this Secondary. but we have issues at RCB... our MLB is coming back from .... bla bla bla. It's on him. Last year this team was taken apart by TEs and if we can't fix this problem this defence will only get off the field when the other team scores.

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Sorry, not to be a dick, but these are simple spelling mistakes you could have fixed.

Let me first start by saying that I think he will be a phenomenal player in the NFL. I hope they compare him to Hugh Douglas, Jerome Brown, Reggie White, and other greats.

However, lets get back to reality for just a few minutes. He’s a rookie DE coming out of a 3-4 Defense in Michigan that wasn’t that good. For those of you who know just a bit about football, 3-4 and 4-3 DEs are 2 different positions. Sure the object is the same. Get sacks and tackle the running back for a loss. However in a 4-3 system you’re asked to not shake off the block but to take the block square, be able to play 2 gaps, and let the people behind you make the play. That may not sound like much but it’s like trying to take everything this young man has learned and wiping the slate clean.

One of my other concerns is he’s a monster. Plain and simple he’s been bigger, stronger, and faster then everyone he’s ever faced his entire football life. Guess what? That WILL NOT happen at this level. The NFL is a combination of the biggest, strongest, and fastest men in the world.

Don’t worry about his progression and whether he is in camp or he’s not . As long as he’s in the weight room, studying film, and has his nose in the playbook he can get away with it.

Why shouldn’t you worry about him getting as meany reps as he can? ( This is the part people don’t want to admit ) He’s a rotational DE behind Parker who at this point and time is #1 on the Depth Chart, ( But I think the coaching staff is looking for a chance to give the job to the following guy ) and #2 is Tapp, who is a monster DE who suffered greatly from a horrid Seahawks secondary (only posting something like 4 sacks ) and still had 16+ QB hurries.

 

On to Nate Allen. I didn’t have the pleasure of watching his college games (except a few highlight films) but, the Philly coaching staff saw enough of this kid to know what they got.

Like it or not Nate Allen is the key to this Secondary. “But we have issues at RCB… our MLB is coming back from ….” blah blah blah. It’s on him. Last year this team was taken apart by TEs and if we can’t fix this problem this defense will only get off the field when the other team scores.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 AM EDT reply actions  

The fact that he was able to man the 3-4 DE position in college, and be as successful as he was, is actually a testament to this guys ability. Graham is solid at 263 lbs but still lacks the long arms and height that a “typical” NFL DE is supposed to have. Graham is supposed to have a motor, though, that never stops. Sure in his rookie year he will most likely be used as a rotational DE early on but this kid was worth 3 draft picks to the Eagles and he will have every opportunity to start at some point this season. If his drive is as high as the coaching staff thinks, he will earn that position. Yes, he has to develop and grow to become successful and nobody should expect a Trent Cole/Jared Allen clone overnight, if they do that is the definition of unreasonable, but this guy was drafted for his talent level, high character, and overall potential to help our pass rush be that much better.
Now I agree Nate Allen is going to be a huge cog in our system but he is still a rookie and will not magically transform our entire secondary overnight. He is not coming in and being asked to be the leader of this defense. He is coming in to help shore up our obviously weak FS position for now and the future. Immediate dividends by most rookies is often times a reality unfulfilled. I don’t know if the recent success of McCoy, Jackson and Maclin has spoiled us or what but the sky is not falling if these guys show obvious growing pains their first year. As long as they show signs of being able to excel, that is what is asked of them their rookie season. I think Allen will be able to do that.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on Allen

Except I see Macho or Demps at FS with Allen manning the nickel or dime this year.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Jul 25, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that might be a package, but macho has already been moved back to his natural position of CB, and the S roster (of any real competitors) consists of Demps, Mikell, Coleman and Allen. Mikell is pretty much locked in at SS (it would have to take an amazing training camp by somebody to unseat him) and Coleman is frontliner for that back up role. If Allen can’t beat out Demps for the starting FS position, then he isn’t gonna be anything special anyway. I think Allen wins that job and our secondary depth chart looks a little like

LCB- Asante Samuel Trevard Lindley Macho Harris
SS- Quintin Mikell Kurt Coleman
FS- Nate Allen Quentin Demps
RCB- Ellis Hobbs Joselio Hanson

But obviously just a guess

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 25, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something tells me that’s going to change by the time the regular season starts but we’ll see.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Jul 26, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nah

You can keep old Pegleg.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Jul 25, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it walks like a duck

it might be a goose

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 25, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did not play in a 3-4 defense at Michigan. MOst every highlight I’ve seen has him as a traditional 4-3 end. The only times I’ve seen him in a 3-4 look, he was still playing as a hand on the ground DE.

His role in the pros will be no different.

Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook

by JasonB on Jul 25, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

As Jason said, he played in a 4-3 base defense at Michigan. Much like a typical defense at any level of football, Michigan ran packages that weren’t 4-3 packages and thus you have small samplings of Graham playing in 3-4 defenses in certain situations. He is, and always will be, a 4-3 DE.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 25, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t have the pleasure of watching his collage games

and judging by your spelling I’m going to guess you didn’t have the pleasure of taking an English class either…

But in all seriousness, Graham was a stud on Defense with no supporting cast. He’ll be good.

Nate Allen just can’t afford to miss a day of camp. He’s not a project…he knows Free Safety, but he has to learn our scheme and can’t afford to come to camp late

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Jul 25, 2010 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

4-3 scheme

Actually you are wrong about 4-3 basic scheme. As a DE in a 4-3 you will almost never be asked to play 2-gab system. In a 4-3 you’ll usually see a 5-tech,1-tech,3-tech and 7-tech lineup. 7 and 5 techs will always line up outside shade on TE and OT respectively. Their primary assignment is to take on the block, extend arms, read the backfield and then either shade the block and pass rush or pursuit the run. Besides it is usual for DEs in 4-3 scheme to have outside contain assignment.
Now the basic rule for all Defensive linemen is that they do all the “dirty” job in order to get the LBs to shine by providing them with the attacking and pursuit lanes. But in 4-3 DEs has a better opportunity to shine, especially i pass rush, because you will usually see DEs lined up either in 45 degree angle on the OT or TE or completely off the line.
You’ll never see that in a 3-4. DL in basic 3-4 scheme will play 2-gab system. They attack opposing OL straight on and then they read the backfield(plus OL’s feet). Afterwards they will choose a gab to attack or pursuit the running play, depending on what happens in the backfield.
So my dear friend you have to upgrade your defensive football knowledge. :)

by Isi_eagle on Jul 25, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

When

will people learn that when you post something on here it should be well thought out and maybe even researched. The readers of BGN are pretty football smart. It would not have gone un-noticed for months that we spent our first round pick on a guy who hasn’t played in a 4-3 system. I know there is an urge to post things but they have to be well thought out and right otherwise were no better than Cowboy fans.

Cowboys suck.

by stinkypants on Jul 25, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

“the NFL is a combination of the biggest strongest fastest men in the world”

really? I absolutely HATE when people say things about American sports and then refer to the best of the world.

World Baseball Champions, World Hockey Champs, World Football Champs, etc.
We only including Canada in a handful of our sports and yet we are perfectly content on saying that we are WORLD champs….

Sorry for the rant, that just always bugged me.

Get in my way and I will either run you over or EAT you!

by 2Fast2Catch on Jul 25, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

When it comes to football you can't really argue against it though

ofcourse people haven’t played against the rest of the world, but Team World got their assed kicked by Team High School Kids a couple of months ago: http://www.ifaf.info/articles/view/232/L2FydGljbGVzL2ZlYXR1cmVkL2luZGV4L3BhZ2U6OQ==

by T-rade on Jul 25, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d say rugby players are also some of the biggest and fastest athletes in the world. I’d also say that some soccer players could beat 99.9% of NFL athletes in footraces.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 25, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

ALthough, with the influx of so many foreign players in MLB, NBA, & NHL they have more of a claim to be “world champions” than every before.

Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook

by JasonB on Jul 25, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, seriously all of the best players from all over the world play in the MLB and NHL. Guys who were amazing in Japan (DiceK) are only average over here.

Lets not get our panties in a bunch that other teams were not given shot. The MLB champs and the NHL champs are legitimately the BEST in the world.

by Clyde Simmons on Jul 26, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok where do we start

For one, Michigan runs a 4-3 base defense. Why do you think Graham draws so many comparisons to Lamar Woodley? They played the exact same position, but Lamar was able to make the transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB.

plain and simple he’s been bigger stronger faster then everyone he’s ever faced his entire football life

To answer this question I’ll take some direct quotes from the likes of Mel Kiper and NFL.com
NFL.com says:

Graham lacks the height you like to see from defensive end prospects.

Mr. Kiper states:

He has very good initial quickness as an edge rusher but doesn’t have elite speed or range in pursuit.

And the guys he has been “bigger stronger faster” than
Brian Bulaga (1st Rounder)
Sam Young (6th rounder)
Gabe Carimi (Top rated tackle for the 2011 draft)
Jon Asamoah (tackle moved to guard taken in the 4th round)
Selvish Capers
Roger Saffold
Dennis Landolt

*Plus to note, he was unblockable at the Senior Bowl. And at 6’1" 268 lbs, I don’t you can say that he was bigger than anyone. I mean weight aside, I’m actually taller than him. Matter of fact, he was the smallest DE taken in the draft for the most part. He was criticized for having short arms as well. So they whole he was “bigger stronger faster” would apply more to Pierre Paul than to Graham. He was only on a bad defense, he was the defense. If he was shut down, the defense went cold. Still he managed to lead the Big Ten is TFL twice and led the NCAA in TFL last year as well as embarrassing the same Brian Bulaga who shut down the ACC Defensive Player of the Year in Derrick Morgan. So yeah……….

by macjack09 on Jul 25, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Everything’s been pretty much covered … I’d just like to add that I was offended to see this.

Reggie Wight

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Jul 26, 2010 9:23 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

I've been sayin "Wait til next year" for 32 years....

R.I.P. JJ

by DoctaWoo on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

this makes no sense

you said:

“One of my other concerns is he’s a monster, plain and simple he’s been bigger stronger faster then everyone he’s ever faced his entire football life, guess what that WILL NOT happen at this level the NFL is a combination of the biggest strongest fastest men in the world.”

soo what you want the guy to be average on the college level? your knocking him for being good? of course he’ll have to work hard, everyone does, but being a monster at every level you played on is a good start…

by BigAP92 on Jul 26, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Have to agree with Whodie...

I literally stopped reading after “Reggie Wight”. Unacceptable.

by Bliz on Jul 26, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Who was a better player, anyways? Hue Douglas or Reggie Wight?

by wildcatlh on Jul 26, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd say Hue Douglass

Is a lot better than Reggie Wight.

But they both played in the 4-4 and we all know how that compares to the 5-2 the eagles run on offense.

by KornontheKobb on Jul 26, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

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