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Heard the Footsteps Special: Why Vick Should Never Be A Starter Ever Again

The Internet is a wonderful tool for the discovery of relevant and important news.  In recent weeks Michel Vick has caught the attention of the news, and thus the Internet.  Automatically, blogging sites latched onto the stories put out by the media, giving any fan with time on his or her hands the ability to get every opinionated angle possible on the Vick situation.  I’ll readily admit that I find myself engrossed in those opinions on a daily basis.  However, like any reasonable consumer, I know where to go for information and what places to avoid.  Bleacher Report is one of those websites that I know to avoid but I also know has hidden (but easily discoverable) humor within its textual confines.  When Imp, of Bleeding Green Nation, used a fanshot to link to one of the worst pieces ever written on the Eagles, I couldn’t help but take a peak.  That’s the mistake I always make in these circumstances.  It’s no question that I will either burst out laughing or get immediately incensed in the first few seconds after finishing anything written on Bleacher Report.  Yet, I keep on going back because I see and link.  I don’t know why but it’s like a morbid obsession with finding humor in, or ripping on, the Bleacher "Reports". 

More after the jump...

Star-divide

Imp happened upon an article (and I use that word as loosely as possible) on Bleacher Report that discussed the five reasons why Vick should be the starter for the Eagles at quarterback.  After looking at the first reasoning, I was not laughing – no, I was already annoyed with the writing.  After finishing the slideshow, I began what I thought would be a simple couple of sentences in response.  Rather than simply rip on the poor fellow who had written it, I spent the next four hours watching the Philadelphia Union play Toronto FC and writing a behemoth comment.  That’s when I realized, enough is enough, and this Vick story has been beaten to death.  It’s time for one of those "it’s finally over, here are all the facts laid out" articles.  Hopefully my breakdown of the current day Vick, through statistical analysis and comparison along with research for some lost facts, will finally end the beating of a truly dead horse (too soon?).

Montana he is not

Vick has never been a true quarterback in the NFL.  Even when he was electrifying the league and leading the Falcons to a couple of good seasons, he did it primarily with his feet.  Vick’s statistics are indicative of this fact.  People complain that McNabb was inaccurate in some parts of his game; well Vick never threw with a completion percentage of more than 56.4%.  His career average is a whopping 53.7%.  The main problem with such an abysmal completion percentage is that the Eagles run an offense based upon the West Coast Offense.  A prototypical QB for the West Coast needs to be accurate due to the use of quick, short passes to supplement the running game.  For coaches like Andy Reid, a short pass is sometimes the equivalent of a running play (hence why our worst down is 3rd and 3).  In Atlanta, Vick was never a pocket passer.  Rather, Vick used his feet to make most of his plays, forcing defenders to try to contain him and worry about him.  McNabb only used his feet when absolutely necessary and as the years went along he developed into a pocket passer with good presence – something Vick most likely will never become.

In the small sampling of plays he was involved in during the past season and playoffs, he had little to no success.  His only true successful play of the season came against the Cowboys in the playoffs.  Yet the only reason that play even occurred, he threw a touchdown pass to Jeremy Maclin, was because his pass was so late that Mike Jenkins got fooled out of his pants.  If you watch the replay, Maclin was forced to slow down to almost pedestrian speeds to stay in time with Vick’s pass.  It would have been much easier for everyone involved to have just thrown in front of Maclin, allowing him to just simply run forward without breaking stride.  Maybe I’m just so used to McNabb’s ability to throw down the field but it appears that Vick was mightily inaccurate throughout his short splits during the season.

His career as a QB wasn’t much more appealing than this past season.  He has thrown for 72 touchdowns and 52 interceptions, plus 11,591 yards in 8 seasons.  That doesn’t sound great and it shouldn’t.  Now, if we remove his rookie season in 2001, 2003 (injuries kept him to 5 games, 4 starts) and last season (not enough of a sample size/only Wildcat time), his stats read out: 65 touchdowns, 49 interceptions and 10,135 yards in 5 seasons.  Now his stats look a bit better but are they event up to par?  If we do the averages, that's 5 seasons, 13 touchdowns per season, 9.8 interceptions per season and 2,027 yards per season.  Now remember, we are talking about Vick's career averages here, once again: 13 TDs, 9.8 INTs, 2,027 yards, 54% completion percentage.  That’s not starting QB worthy. 

As I mentioned previously, Vick’s feet were vital to the fame he achieved prior to his conviction and incarceration.  If we're going to discuss his running, it has to be taken into account that he clearly is about two steps slower than he was prior to his conviction.  He can't break away from players in the backfield as easily anymore, nor can he just simply weave in and out of the defense to win games.  Last season he had his worst statistical running season of his career: 24 attempts, 95 yards, 4.0 average, 2 TDs.  For his career he has scored 23 touchdowns via the run and has contributed 3,954 yards.  That's no longer the type of player that Vick is.  Vick was given designed runs and just couldn’t find his way out of the backfield in important situations.  On more than one occasion, Vick was not able to beat linebackers or defensive linemen to the sideline and was stopped before he could pick up decent yards.  This isn’t your Madden 2004 Vick anymore.

If we take his passing stats and add them to his rushing stats, here are his career and seasonal combined averages:


Total yards: 15,545

Average combined yards: 2,202.71

Total Touchdowns: 95

Average combined touchdowns: 13.57

Total turnovers: 79 (55 fumbles, luckily for Vick only 27 fumbles lost + 52 interceptions)

Average combined turnovers: 13.17

So his touchdowns:turnovers ratio is 13.57:13.17, or a +0.40 ratio for Vick.


Let's compare him to a very similar QB (and former Eagle), Randall Cunningham.

Total yards: 34,907

Average combined yards: 2,327.13

Total Touchdowns: 242

Average combined touchdowns: 16.13

Total turnovers: 239 (Unfortunately, fumbles lost versus recovered was not recorded for a good portion of Cunningham's career, so these are fumbles in total, not just fumbles lost)

Average combined turnovers: 15.93

Cunningham’s touchdowns:turnovers ratio is 16.13:15.93 which would mean that his career ratio is  worse than Vick’s, with only +0.20.

But see, this is where Vick's stats really get hit hard.  Take Vick's total fumbles (not just his fumbles lost) and recalculate his stats:  Total turnovers: 52 interceptions+55 fumbles = 107.  His turnovers combined average is an on par, 15.29.  Vick's new ratio? 13.57:15.29, or a -1.72.  As can be seen, Vick did not do his part offensively to make up for his turnovers, unlike Cunningham who still managed a positive ratio.

Let's keep digging.  It's even more fair for the two QBs, based on injury (Cunningham had an injury plagued career) and usage (rookie seasons, specialist use) to go on a game-by-game basis.


Vick's per game stats:

86 games, 68 started

Total stats:

.83 TDs thrown per game (1.05 per start)

.60 INTs thrown per game (.76 per start)

.27 TDs rushed per game (.34 per start)

.64 FUMbles per game (.81 per start)

Combined stats:

1.0 TDs per game (1.40 per start)

1.24 Turnovers per game (1.57 per start)

Per game ratio- 1.0:1.24, Vick's ratio is -0.24.  Great offensive help he is.  Relative statistics tell a lot and I wish I could have some sort of WAR-like stat to throw in here to show how bad Vick is for an offense.  Alas, a negative ratio is the best I can provide for now.  But how does Vick compare game-by-game to Cunningham?


Cunningham:

161 games, 135 started

Total stats:

1.28 TDs thrown per game (1.53 per start) - 207

.83 INTs thrown per game (1.02 per start) - 134

.22 TDs rushed per game (.26 per start) - 35

.65 FUMbles per game (.78 per start) - 105

Combined stats:

1.50 TDs per game (1.79 per start)

1.48 Turnovers per game (1.77 per start)

Per game ratio- 1.50:1.48, Cunningham had a +0.02 ratio.  Cunningham had a positive effect on his team, more noticeable record wise, than Vick.  Here's the best part - his offensive help around him was most likely worse than Vick's ever was in Atlanta.  The one thing that Buddy Ryan's Eagles never had was offense, besides Cunningham.  Ryan pretty much solely focused on his defenses.  Try to name any weapons allotted to Cunningham during his heyday with the Eagles.  Imagine Cunningham having an offense resembling something McNabb had and you’ll most likely picture an incredibly high scoring offense.  He never had average WRs nor a solid offensive line.  Because of the state of the offense, anything positive that Cunningham contributed was key to his team, much like Vick.  The main difference is that Vick hurt his team by providing the opposing team more opportunities to score than he himself has scored.  

Now how can I make it even worse for Vick?  How about we just look at TDs:INTs (for the love of all that is holy, please tell me that this set of statistics is still accepted – I’m looking at you, batting average and plus/minus).


Vick- 72 TDs:52 INTs = +20

Per season- 10.28:7:43 = +2.85

Per game- 0.83:0.60 = +0.23

Per game started- 1.05:0.76 = +0.29


Cunningham- 207 TDs:134 INTs = +73

Per season- 12.17:7.88 = +4.29

Per game- 1.28:0.83 = +0.45

Per game started- 1.53:1.02 = +0.51


And who could leave out McNabb, who is rightfully the person to be compared to in any talk regarding Philly QBs.

McNabb- 216 TDs:100 INTs = +116 (11 season; 148 games, 142 started)

Per season- 19.64:9.09 = +10.55

Per game- 1.46:0.68 = +0.78

Per game started- 1.46:0.70 = +0.76


Vick doesn't even come close to the two QBs in history that he's comparable to (and both just so happen to have been long time Eagles QBs).

Redemption is earned, not given

Vick was convicted of crimes against dogs that affect emotions in nearly everyone.  My heart was wrenched when the full details came out about how he and his associates brutally ended the lives of some of man’s best friends.  The dog killings make it just that much harder for an average person, such as myself, to forgive and forget on the part of Vick. 

To take just the time period of his release to today, Vick’s actions have still yet to warrant the ability to be redeemed.  His association with co-defendants was outlined in his parole agreement, which basically states that he should stay as far away as possible from them.  Somehow, Vick managed to push the lines of his parole agreement, as he came into contact with one of his co-defendants while at his 30th birthday party.  Normally I wouldn’t have a problem with Vick because sometimes uninvited guests can’t be stopped.  But Vick put himself in a position to fail by holding an "anyone-can-come-so-long-as-you-pay-$50-and-wear-white-to-my-party birthday" birthday party.   It’s not smart for anyone in Vick’s position to be at something that he could potentially place him in direct contrast to his parole agreement and his contractual obligations to the Eagles.

On another note, I believe he still hasn't shown any proper remorse for his actions in the past.  He's simply used the excuse of "it's part of my home neighborhood's culture".  I will admit, Vick has been a positive for local Philadelphian animal rights organizations.  His recognition and fame has helped to give those organizations a boost.  That's not good enough.  Until he owns up to what he did, verbally and with all the seriousness and honesty possible, any actions he takes to get his reputation back is meaningless. 

Vick does not have the right to redeem himself, he needs to show that he deserves it

Leader?  For who, for what?

His past criminal convictions make him unable to be a leader on a team that not only has some established leaders, but also a team that drafted 11 college team captains (out of 13 draft selections) in this year's NFL draft.  There is no way that he can earn the respect of players as a leader on this team.  Another reason why he can't: the Eagles have been trying to trade him for about 6 months now.  Players on the team don't know if he, at any moment, will remain on the team for longer than this season.  Remember, Vick's contract is up after this season and everything points to the Eagles not retaining him (Vick wants to start).

Vick wasn't even considered by the Falcons to be the leader of the team.  The word "leader" was not mentioned once in the AP article on his release by the Falcons.  Nor did General Manager Thomas Dimitroff mention the word "leader" in his interview with atlantafalcons.com on the matter.  The word "leader" was not once mentioned by the team in its official public statement on the release of Vick.

Looking past his status as a leader for the Falcons, Vick's actions off the field show that he (a) has yet to learn from his mistakes and (b) does not have the character to act as a leader, or mentor, to the players on the Philadelphia Eagles.  Putting himself into situations where he could possibly not only break the terms of his re-acceptance of his league but also his parole is not what the Eagles, nor their players, want.

Vick cannot fill McNabb’s shoes

Here a couple of questions to ponder:

If Vick is good enough to start, then why hasn't a single team traded for Vick since he returned to the NFL via the Eagles? 

Look at the list of teams that probably should acquire a better QB: why haven't any of them traded for Vick?

If Vick was good enough to start, he'd be taking first team snaps during OTAs and during Training camp and such.  Guess who isn't and won't be? 

Vick is clearly only on the team because he was paid a $1.5 million bonus and the Eagles are notorious for not wanting to admit they made a mistake.  Statistically speaking, Vick's numbers are severely sub-par to any of McNabb's seasons.  Not much more I can say about that.  Because of such reasons, Vick is not a franchise QB.  Vick was the face of the Falcons, I'll give you that, but he has never been seen as anything but an outstanding athlete and a poor QB.

In addition, if you believe that McNabb wasn't fully accepted by Eagles fans (most liked the guy, national media just spun the vocal minority out to be the majority), think about it this way: Vick will NEVER be accepted by Eagles fans.  He's someone who is hated by people from all walks of life for his actions against dogs.  I never want him to be the franchise QB, i.e. the face of the franchise.  The Eagles will never let that happen.  We’re talking about Jeff Lurie and Joe Banner here.  The one thing they have been consistent with is there undying want to keep this team classy and filled with character.  Vick lacks both qualities.  It's been a wonder to pretty much every single non-casual Eagles fan as to why Vick was signed at all by the Eagles.  If anything, Vick was signed as trade bait and absolutely nothing else. 

Vick has not truly played any NFL level football in four years.  Remember, he left the league after the 2006 season due to his conviction and last season he was barely used.  Ignoring that, for his career he's a measly +10 win versus loss-wise. His career record is 38-28-1... Wow, just wow.  Need I remind you that McNabb's record with the Eagles, including his rookie season, was 92-49-1 or a +43.  He went to the NFC championship game once and was promptly dispatched by an Eagles team where Freddie Mitchell was the "star" WR.  Remember, TO wasn't around for the playoffs leading up to the Superbowl.  You can't use the "he didn't have much in Atlanta" argument.  The fact is that McNabb really had nothing beyond a good line and Brian Westbrook prior to the Superbowl run.  Yet, he put up impressive numbers, went to the playoffs and had good to great records for those years.  Even during the lean, post Superbowl years, McNabb had stats that far surpassed those of Vick's best years.  Terrance Small,Charles Johnson, LJ Smith, James Thrash... those names ring a bell?

As of today, Michael Vick has not met my requirements to be a starting QB in the NFL, let alone the Eagles starting QB.  Has he met yours?

Poll
Can Vick ever be a starting QB again in the NFL?
Yes
160 votes
No
131 votes
Hopefully this is now all put to rest.
51 votes

342 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 169 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

I will read

your article when I have more time…its long. But I think Vick can and will start for someone next year. He will do enough this year to

by MightyJoeBanner on Jul 21, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha, sorry about the length MJB. I’m one of those people that will write as much as possible in order to leave no stone unturned.

This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he’s going to get enough playing time to solidify that idea in any front office’s mindset.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I swear that I read this article before.

Hmm…But where was it at? I think it was on another website, but I wasn’t able to find it again. It must have been deleted or something.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 21, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

For some reason my comments are still slowly disppearing on Bleacher Report. I think I’ve posted the same comment about 15 different times (and worded differently just ever so slightly) and it’s down to about 3.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is just pissed because you owned his ass on his own article.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 21, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if this gets front page, I wan't a little credit for my douche comment. :3

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 21, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will do, DickMuffin, will do.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This article

is fucking amazing!!!!!!!!!! I love it. I’m rec’ing it. This article covers every basis, except for the future and if you ain’t God or Nostradamus you don’t know what the future holds. Sadly Scott, it will be for naught as most people have the attention span of a crackheaded 10 year old with ADD. They will also ignore all your valid points and focus on the dog killing part. “He did his time, etc. etc.”
For me personally this is a remarkabale piece of work and deserves front page status.
Hook it up JasonB!
Great Job Scott.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 21, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks T_T. I think this was the first piece I’ve posted here that lacked any word mistakes (righting for writing).

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

ehhh almost
Statically Statistically speaking

lol, sorry

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not the same as my previous mistakes! I’ve succeeded in breaking the cycle1

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol. Then congratulations!!!!

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

You just couldn't let him have that could you TT.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 22, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

No. I’m a dick :( It’s a hard habit to break. i tried really hard though.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Basically, I did ask you to look it over. Can’t blame him for it, DickMuffin.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yes I can.

And none of you fuckers can stop me. MUAHAHA!!

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Muah? or muhaha!!!

DickMuffin

there stopped

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, snap!

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good show. I saw this in the comments to the Bleacher Report Article.

I know some people like or accept Vick more than others, but arguing that he should be the Eagles’ starter seems questionable from anyone not named Michael or Marcus* Vick.

*Marcus wants his brother to have more celebrity that he can mooch off.

by BrianS on Jul 21, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Michael Vick...

…has always been a terrible starting QB. He is a terrible backup QB as well. He is inaccurate, incompetent, impotent (except when running a “train” on a dog in his basement) and inept. Why is he on this team, for christ’s sake?

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 21, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe Mr. Banner reads the comments here — maybe he wants to make you crazy with rage.

by Greg M on Jul 21, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure he does read these comments.

My biting criticism will force Banner and Reid to retire…and Vick to neuter himself so he can no longer abuse animals.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec’d. That author of the bleacher report article was a joke.

Jim Johnson(RIP). Brian Westbrook(36). Donovan Mcnabb(5). Brian Dawkins(20). Sheldon Brown(24). Jeremiah Trotter(54).

Thanks for the memories...

by Route36 on Jul 21, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Cunningham

was so much a better player than Vick – who can forget Cunningham’s 95 yard TD to Barnett against the Bills when he avoided Bruce Smith in the EZ.

Did Cunningham not play with Barnett, TE Jackson and Byars – what I recall held you back was a lack of a decent RB.

Back to the article itself – great stuff – I too cannot see how anyone can believe Vick will be a starter in the NFL (unless he starts because of an injury) let alone a team offering a high draft pick to acquire him from you.

by G Fan in England on Jul 21, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Before I wrote this piece I talked to my Dad, who has owned season tickets since the ‘80-’81 season. I value his insight because he watched the Buddy Ryan era in person, which I wasn’t able to do (too young). He told me that Jackson was an above average tight end but not a game changer. Byars wasn’t anything to write about, though he was more than serviceable and probably the best weapon that Cunningham had offensively. As for Barnett, my Dad didn’t even mention him. Not much to talk about there.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jackson was a little better than ‘an above average tight end.’ He had one of the greatest rookie season in NFL history for a TE and he was was Randall’s security blanket on 3rd down for his first few years. Jackson made the Pro Bowl his first 3 seasons (88-90) and guess who also made the Pro Bowl the same 3 years? Cunningham.

Fred Barnett was also a much better player than your dad seems to remember too. He made the Pro Bowl in ‘92 and was one of the most explosive deep threats his first 3 years. Didn’t have Desean Jackson’s raw speed/explosive but he was a much physical and a much better leaper who has some amazing ups. His vertical was either 45 or 46 inches which is ridiculous. Problem is he got hurt his knee in ‘93 early in the year. Came back strong in ’94 but didn’t seem to have the same explosiveness before the knee injury.

Both were much explosive offensive players and better weapons for the Eagles than Byars.

by MG77 on Jul 23, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I won’t disgree with you on Jackson, my dad just didn’t see him as anything amazing.

As for Barnett, it’s probably just because my dad lapsed on memory. He were discussing it and perhaps he just forgot to mention Barnett.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 23, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And another thing

In Vick’s best years with Atlanta they had the NFL’s top rushing attack. That kind of attack takes a ton of pressure off the quarterback. In the NFC championship game the Eagles slowed down that run, put the game in Vicks hands and we all remember the outcome. I’m comfortable with him being our back up and coming in for the wildcat from time to time but I doubt he will ever be a quality starter again.

Cowboys suck.

by stinkypants on Jul 21, 2010 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Ok I know im going to piss someone off with this.

But if you still have you rpanties in a bunch about the dog thing get over it. He did his time for it. Anger about that should stop right there. And now he does work to help prevent it from happening in other places. Willingly or not that should alleviate any residual anger. Other people fight Chickens but your not getting up in arms about that because you like dogs more. Plus a dogs live<<<<<<<<Human life.
i like your stuff Scott but get over it. To him what he did doesnt seem wrong. But it does to you. He did his time like I said before. Just because you deem something wrong doesnt mean that you have to have other cultures apologize for it.
Im not trying to be a dick i just had one of “Those” days at work today since im the newest and shit runs downhill ya know.

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Jul 21, 2010 9:10 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

While this may have been a little more harsh than it had to be (bad day at work earns you a pass though, in my opinion) I completely agree. Especially what you said about culture. Just because our culture says something is right or wrong doesn’t mean it necessarily is. People have to accept that the culture Vick grew up in is not the same culture as the average American. That’s not an excuse, he broke the law. But he served his punishment, one far more harsh than a regular person who committed the same crime would have served.

Listen, I love dogs. We have nine dogs in our house right now. I’m totally morally opposed to dog-fighting. But Vick did his time and has worked hard to make up for his crime, so he should be forgiven. End of story.

I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
JIBTA’s actually Jack Ikegwuonu... and he’s f***ing pissed.
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Jul 21, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has learned nothing.

And is a shitty human and a shitty quarterback.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t know what he has learned or hasn’t. The truth is that unless you are Michael Vick, you don’t know what Michael Vick has learned or felt.

I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
JIBTA’s actually Jack Ikegwuonu... and he’s f***ing pissed.
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Jul 22, 2010 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fuck Michael Vick

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

well shit EB

dont suger coat it …tell us how you REALLY feel…LMFAO…oh and i am the king of haiku….your just darth vader

formerly known as Northern Eagle

by JonnyS on Jul 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like tio see you say that to Vicks face.

If Vick is such a bad QB and NFL hired him and payed him millions of dollars to play the position then what does that say about the league? Many hypocritical fans can’t seperate the man from the player and mis-use this “Sports Talk” forum and football stats to attack verbally Vick because of jealousy, envy and other personnal reasons that they have decided to hide. Stats are not definitive and can be manipulated and so can news stories.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Marcus, how ya doin?

by BrianS on Aug 2, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Typical response from the dellusional.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really? Coming from a person who’s best argument for Vick is that everyone hates him because we’re jealous?

Good luck getting those two argument works together.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.

by Imp on Aug 2, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The correct response to such would be to ask a question.
because of jealousy, envy and other personnal reasons that they have decided to hide.

Reading is fundamental.

I was willing to present my case with an open mind but I can see that you are not. Talk to you another time.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

dudes a Giants fan don’t expect much.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Aug 2, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh? I'll chalk this one up to the failure of NY Public Schools

First of all: “to attack verbally Vick?” What the fuck does that mean?
Second of all: “paid”
“personnel” or “personal?” Pick one.

Stats are not definitive in certain cases. Here are a few incontrovertible statements (EvilBanner’s note: that means they can’t be disputed. Just trying to help you as you choke in the sulphurous, noxious fumes of Hoboken) that can be supported by statistics.
     a) Vick has never won shit (playoff record 2-2)
     b) Vick is a lousy QB (lifetime QB rating of 75, comp. percentage 53…)
     c) He has raped and murdered dozens of dogs. That seems to be the only thing he’s statistically good at.

Have fun traversing landfills and shitting in dumpsters.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Aug 3, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I lost lol
c) He has raped and murdered dozens of dogs. That seems to be the only thing he’s statistically good at.

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Aug 3, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

You still got the message though.

 Give me four legitimate reasons why Vick is a bad player without regurgitating what you have been programmed with through the media. Are you a better QB than Vick?

We already know you are a master at expressing curse words and ignorance. Now show some real intelligence and present your case in an articulate and respectable manner. Bo disrespect intended. I really want to understand your position on this.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you a better QB than Vick?

You’ve said this a couple times, and it is still irrelevant no matter how often you repeat it.

No one on this board is an NFL QB. So using your standards, are we not allowed to criticize ANY pro athlete?

Oh wait…I just learned that EvilBanner is Mike Kafka. Nevermind.

by BrianS on Aug 3, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. In spite of the fact that he was readily available for anyone to pick up as a starter, no one did.
2. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53% and he’s been on some good teams.
3. He is incredibly immature (even at age 30) and has never been able to lead a team.
4. Vick’s throwing motion makes Tim Tebow look like Dan Marino. Perhaps this accounts for his subpar performance at the QB position
5. His character issues are legion and they permeate every fiber of his being. Being a terrible person does not automatically make you a bad football player, but in Vick’s case, his unspeakably shitty lifestyle and morality pervades his football play
6. Vick and secondary receivers? No thanks!

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Aug 3, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay

1.

“..no on did…”
Fact: uncontested.

Question: Was their decision based his personal problems or was it because they felt that he had nothing to offer ability-wise?

Answer: Neither one of us can answer that one so any answer given is something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof. and therefore inconclusive.

2. Contested due to: questionability of this individual stat; no first hand knowledge on our part
and
lack of availability of the individual who recorded the statistic for questioning.

Question: Was Vick the sole reason why these “good teams” didn’t win a Superbowl?

If yes, List every single action that validates this assertion.
 If not, why isn’t the rest of the team(s) being held responsible?

Answer: Inconclusive. Requires further investigation.

3. Conceded: He does seem to find himself in awkward positions that could have been avoided if he had allowed his common sense to dictate his actions and this would trait would interfere with his ability to lead others in a sensible manner.

4. Contested: Pure speculation.

Question: What evidence do you have to support this?

5. Contested: Pure speculation.

6. Contested: Irrelevant.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 3, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are just arguing for the sake of arguing now. No reasonable person will call Vick a good QB. Is he a play maker? absolutely would I want him under center to lead my team play after play? No f’n way he’s just not a QB … he isn’t there is no argument.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Aug 4, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big time.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Aug 4, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all friend. That is the excuse YOU are giving for being unable to rebut.

I am simply staying within the professional aspect of the issue and not the personal one by pointing out how all of the condemnation that Vick has received as a player stems from what you think about him on a personal level. You cannot mix the two.

If you were being fair, you would have also pointed out that Vick’s career is not over yet. If those individuals who are criticizing Vick are convinced that Vick is not capable of winning a championship, and have the power to give him a team, then give him a team and let him prove the critics right. But the fact that they have refused to give him a team, IMO, indicates that if he did have one, he would prove the critics wrong instead.

Good players are judged by what they accomplished during their ENTIRE career. John Elway, Bernie Kosar, etc. all played well during their careers but didn’t win a Superbowl until the end. Today they are spoken of as good football players. Nothing personal is ever brought in to the picture.

Critics are using the excuse that Vick is not good any more but they won’t give the guy sufficient playing time so that we can make our own assessment by watching the guy QB a team and deciding for ourselves even if it is for one season. You are definitely entitled to your own opinion and I don’t have to agree with it but I respect it nonetheless. Thanks for hearing me out.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 4, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

If those individuals who are criticizing Vick are convinced that Vick is not capable of winning a championship, and have the power to give him a team, then give him a team and let him prove the critics right.

You are suggesting that someone who thinks he is a bad QB make him their QB so they can prove their (correct) assumption right rather than just getting a good QB and trying to win? Brilliant.

Vick is an inaccurate passer, his athleticism is not what it once was and he has never run a pass oriented pro style offense.

Oh and by the way. Playing time isn’t given, it is earned. If Vick wants to have the opportunity to prove he is still a good QB then he needs to earn it. His offense stalling 1 yard runs didn’t exactly do much for me or NFL GMs last year.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Aug 5, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look, it doesn't matter...
You are suggesting that someone who thinks he is a bad QB make him their QB so they can prove their (correct) assumption right rather than just getting a good QB and trying to win? Brilliant.

No, I am saying to those critics that it is one thing to say something and another thing entirely to show it. Scientific observation requires the SHOWING of a hypothesis in order for discovery to be made.

What the critics are doing is equivalent to locking a group of people in a house with no windows and then coming in an stating that it is raining outside but refusing to let the people come out see for themselves.

You can sit here and scream that Vick is a bad QB all you want for as long as you want but that will prove nothing. You say that playing time is earned…ok…when? Where? on the field or in practice? He isn’t given the opportunity to play a substantial amount of time in a game to earn more playing time. One or two plays? come on, you can’t be serious. And practice? Okay.

Lastly, the fact that out of everything that I wrote, you focused an incomplete part of one point of my argument reveals an inclination on your part that is inhibiting your impartial judgment and thus dooms this entire discussion to staying within the confines of circular reasoning that I have just attempted to break you out of. Unfortunate.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 5, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

What the critics are doing is equivalent to locking a group of people in a house with no windows and then coming in an stating that it is raining outside but refusing to let the people come out see for themselves.

ROFL no it would be like showing people its raining out and then telling them it’s raining. Vick was never in his life a good QB, he’s an extremely gifted athlete and that allowed him to play at high levels. The stats don’t lie.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Aug 10, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

by pointing out how all of the condemnation that Vick has received as a player stems from what you think about him on a personal level.

You couldn’t be more wrong about this. I’m fine with Vick the human being, he made his choice and he paid for his mistake. My view on him as a player has absolutely nothing to do with him as a person.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Aug 10, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he was just using at least 4000 words to state the obvious: Michael Vick is a shitty quarterback.

by Greg M on Jul 21, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The “he did his time” excuse only holds water if he changed because of the time spent in prison. That’s why I can’t forgive and forget at this point. I don’t believe he has learned that he was wrong and that he needs to change his character due to it. If I try to apologize to one of my parents, either my Mom or my Dad will refuse to except it unless he or she believes that I am completely sincere and have learned from the situation. Why should it be any different with Vick?

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look

I understand what your saying, but its wrong. You dont go to prison for two years and come out saying what i did was still right. Whether you want to believe it or not he has to know that what he did was wrong. I agree with the change of character thing. But Killing dogs isnt exactly a character thing. Its a poor judgement thing. I am willing to bet that he now knows that he shouldnt do things like that. But I dont know, I havent talked to him, or met him, so I cant make any conclusions. Nor can you. You can say you dont think he was sincere all you want but it wont change whether he is or not. So exactly what purpose does being on a moral high horse serve. ( I dont mean that to sound offensive I couldnt find another way to word it)

And the parents example doesnt work for the question I asked. Are you apologizing through a TV screen? cause im willing to bet if thats the case you would never have a “Sincere” apology. You are never going to be pleased with Vick with this attitude.

And Again there is a cultural thing here, How he was raised this wasnt a problem. Go to another country where you might do something like offer to shake hands with your left hand in India (in places with no toilet paper they use the left hand to wipe so Extending that for a shake is highly offensive. Also idk if youre left handed im just sayin) Should they go ape shit over you and ask to apologize? No, they can explain it and you will most likely say “Oh im sorry I didnt know It was not my intent to offend you” You can apologize for the intent. But you , again if youre left handed, will still use your left hand to shake in the States. If you were truly remorseful for your actions it wouldnt happen again. Its a cultural thing Vick can say that he is sorry that he did it but he will prolly never think that it is wrong because its how he was raised.

Once again I am not trying to be an ass. I agree with the rest of the article but Damn get over it. Vick gets so much shit from everyone. Big Ben gets his third rape accusation, Stallworth killed a guy. But 97% of people I talk to are more mad at Vick and that angers me. I mean seriously if you arent somehow a dog and this was murder kindly get the fuck over. Once again no offense meant

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can forgive and forget, Udalango, and it’s pretty easy for him to prove that he’s sincere with his apologizes. Instead of stepping up to the mic and reading a lawyer written, why can’t he just speak from the heart? The whole culture thing is a crapshoot. Some things are accepted and some are not, so I won’t argue that. I just want an acceptance of fate and a showing of good, quality character. Is that too much to ask from someone who was given the chance of a life time; Vick was handed the chance to redeem himself on a national stage and to pay off all his debts. It is rare someone is so lucky.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I wonder if it’s culturally acceptable to order a hit on one of your dogfighting associates? What’s the culture that explains the Ron Mexico business? Perhaps he’s also Swiss, because he has a hard-on for watches. Either he’s a veritable United Nations contained in one man, or he’s just a filthy piece of shit.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

But Killing dogs isnt exactly a character thing. Its a poor judgement thing.

Poor judgement is banging the fat chick. Killing dogs is a poor character trait. See every serial killer ever.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t there a link between the torturing or killing of animals and serial killers?

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes a gigantic link. And serial killers have poor character traits therefore killing/torturing animals equals a poor character trait.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually.

There is a link between parental abuse/molestation and the torturing of animals at an early stage and then serial killing at a later stage in life. Some sick shit going on in this world.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 22, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even better! Thanks for reassuring me, DM.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess im seeing a difference between

Torturing an animal and getting off from it
and torturing one to make it a better fighter for you illegal dog fighting rink

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

He took dogs and killed them with his bare hands is the third option.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got off sexually from his crimes.

There’s little doubt about that.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's an image that I really didn't need in my mind.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 22, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Purple drank in one hand...

…purple headed warrior in the other…a hot Virginia basement…muy caliente, Senor Mexico!

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

...Ok?

And how many college years of psyhcology do you have.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys are missing the point of dogfighting. Its not torture to the people who watch it, its sport. In America we have a lot of people who like to watch and bet on a sport where horses are spurred on to run faster than their bodies can handle and then some. Horses are pushed past the brink of exhaustion and collapse and die on the track or in the trailer directly afterward. Life-ending broken legs are the norm. And are the owners remorseful? Nope, because they’re too angry about losing their biggest earner. To so many people horse-racing is torture, but you don’t see protests and jail sentences for the people who organize those events.

I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
JIBTA’s actually Jack Ikegwuonu... and he’s f***ing pissed.
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Jul 22, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

I think a lot of the outrage over dogfighting is really, really disproportionate. There’s a whole lot of animal cruelty that goes on all over the place, in sport and in many, MANY other aspects of life(mcdonald’s, anyone?) that doesn’t receive nearly the sound and fury that Vick gets for killing a few dogs.

There are millions if not billions of people who’ve done far worse things, and been vilified a lot less.

Also, just to stir the pot, how many of the animal rights folks barking at Vick have come close to the amount of money he’s donated to animal rights groups?

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 22, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, just to stir the pot, how many of the animal rights folks barking at Vick have come close to the amount of money he’s donated to animal rights groups?

To be fair most people don’t have the amount of money Vick has, nor ever will. Also how much of his “donations” are a true I want to donate compared to I got caught killing dogs now I need to donate this money so people leave me alone.
A lot of these people “barking at Vick”, donate what they can which is more poften then not time. Foster homes for animals, working functions, free time at clinics and pounds. These are done because they want to, not because they think it will get people off their back.
I wouldn’t call his giving money a donation as much as a payment to sway the publics opinion.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 22, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Intentions < Bottom Line

His money is still green.

I’m not a Vick apologist, but… Fair or not, dude’s given a pretty respectable chunk of change to animal rights organizations, more than most legitimate lovers of animals.

If you’re PETA, would you rather have a $500000 check from a convicted dogfighter, or a $10 check from a genuinely awesome person who loves his 18 dogs, but has to struggle to pay rent? That’s all I’m saying. There’s a lot more gray area with this whole thing than people tend to acknowledge.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 28, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

touche’

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 29, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Vick paid them to shut up and to stop harrassing him.

PETA dosen’t give a fling f**k about animals. Its all about the money. I never see this group unless a high profile case like Vicks comes along..After they get thier money they disappear until the next time.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vick paid them to shut up and to stop harrassing him.

PETA dosen’t give a fling f**k about animals. Its all about the money. I never see this group unless a high profile case like Vicks comes along..After they get thier money they disappear until the next time.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think that Vick is the only sports player who engaged in dog fighting.

How would you feel if you found out that 90% of the football league participated in this pass time? Ick is the ony one who got caught but not the only one who participated. You probably cher for guys every season who engage in this practice and don’t even know it.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

and if I found out who they were I would boo them as well. I would protest against them as well. But since I am not a investigative journalist or detective, I do not have the resources to find out who it is until their crime is brought to the attention of us.
See, I unlike a bunch of other people, did not say shit when Vick was first accused of the crime. Once he was charged and found guilty (a plea bargain is admission of guilt) that is when I started to despise him.
It’s the same with Rothliesberger. As of right now he is innocent. No charges, no admission of guilt. If he does end up being guilty of any of his crimes, then I will despise him and boo him just as much as any other criminal.
Is that really wrong? To not like criminals of a horrific kind? I think that makes perfect sense in my opinion.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Aug 2, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

And just to note, Udalango, I’m not a PETA person or someone who gets up and does something about animal violence – you’re right. I am, however, someone who detests any violence to animals and it’s my right to be morally opposed to such actions.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with those PETA people is that they think animal life has more importance than human life.

I don't know what it is about your face,
[holds up fist]
but I just wanna deliver one of these right in your suck hole.

by DickMuffin on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

and they don’t eat meat. I mean what the hell is that?

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 24, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah fuck that shit.

DAT ASS!!

by DickMuffin on Jul 24, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can respect people that are vegetarians because they believe in its health benefits but PETA forgets that 90% of the animals it tries to protect (cows and other farm animals) wouldn’t have the populations numbers they have without us eating them.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 24, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Population numbers?

You’re missing the point. I’m sure anyone who honestly cared about animals (and I don’t really, btw) would rather have 80% fewer cows/chickens/whatever in the world, if they didn’t have to live in the conditions they live in to be sold as food.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 28, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're missing the point.

If you follow PETA at all they completely ignore what I was talking about.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 28, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't

follow PETA, that’s why I didn’t mention them in my response. I was responding to your post, which says (correct me if I’m wrong) PETA should be glad we eat animals, because it drives up their overall population number.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 29, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

They ignore the fact that the animals they wish to protect will be drastically reduced in number just by the efforts that they are trying to succeed at. By the extension of their beliefs, they will reduce the populations of farm animals more than eating them actually does.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bro I hate PETA,

they can fucking blow buildings up and shit but not eat a steak… If your going to blow shit up you must eat steak in order for it to be effective or badass.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

by wild_eagle on Jul 24, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man Law

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 25, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've been waiting for that lol.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

by wild_eagle on Jul 27, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol, what?

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Several haiku for Mike Vick

Shower time in jail
Dropped soap and meaty dicks
Leavenworth is fun!

Killing a pit bull
Makes his member swollen up
He gets off on it.

Michael Vick: Asshole.
Killing dogs and raping them
Hot nights at Bad Newz.

Michael to Marcus:
“Go shoot that motherfucker…
He hit me with cake.”

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 22, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This post in a nut shell

Mike Vick SUCKS!

and I couldn’t agree more.

Let's get it Birds.

by homestar2281 on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I love how you took my article and summed it up in three words. Damn, that’s a 1000:1 ratio of words. Now I feel bad :(

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha

sorry man great post as always just post more

Let's get it Birds.

by homestar2281 on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Excellent write up. Not really much to say as you’ve said it all quite well.

by NOLACuse on Jul 22, 2010 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Totally agree

with the “Vick shouldn’t start” premise, and that he isn’t really leader material.

Still think he has some football value as a gimmick, though.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 22, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

captains

“a team that drafted 11 college team captains (out of 13 draft selections) in this year’s NFL draft”

That’s very interesting. I hadn’t read that before. Which 11 were captains (or which 2 were not)?

by phillyfan1978 on Jul 22, 2010 7:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I can’t find the exact article on here that it was stated in but I’ll stand by my memory. For my best guess for the two that weren’t, Charles Scott (almost positive) and Trevard Lindley (haven’t seen any mention of leader or captain).

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 22, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW! This has been the most interesting off season and this article

is an excellent cross section on the QB comparison/debate. I like your process of comparing. But I must say that fate seems to be saying that eventually by injury or performance, we will see Vick behind center starting for the Eagles. Minimally speaking, you cannot rule him out. I think quietly, Andy is preparing an offense for Vick as he did for McNabb. Kolb gives him a pure West Coast approach. But Andy was way too smart to try and squeeze Donovan into the typical WC offense. He’ll do the same for Vick. I don’t expect much this season. But I am curious to watch Andy build his next stout Eagles team. I think Kolb is the clear starter. But just like, Andy not putting all of his eggs in McNabb? He’s not putting them all in Kolb either.

This Eagles Team has a suspicious unknown nature that usually is the characteristic of a loser. I hope I'm wrong! E A G L E S EAGLES!

by Lombardi and Broad on Jul 23, 2010 8:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Good article. Just wished you had left out the ‘Redemption is earned, not given’ section. Tired subject that has been discussed ad nauseum.

by MG77 on Jul 23, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I originally wrote a majority of this as a response to a Bleacher Report ‘article’ which listed his need for redemption as one of the reasons why he should be a starter. But I get your point.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well fuck dude

I wouldnt have started the earlier convo if I new it was a response my bad

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Jul 23, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

but it made for good debate. it always makes for good debate.

"I will never have my best season," Brian Dawkins

"There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

"This fucking game is over!" Chuck Bednarik

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson

by Talon Talent on Jul 23, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s no problem Udalango. I think most people skipped my intro.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 23, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read it

I guess i just didnt connect it

UDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Η κόλαση δεν έχει μυστικά

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!!!

"fuk u i hate peas"- CNCITINFO (Random BGN troll)

by Udalango on Jul 24, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I probably should have said a little bit more about the B/R article.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 24, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post.

Read everything up until “Redemption…blahdy blah blh” just because that looked more like off-field stuff from that point on.

Can’t believe close to half the people that have read this still think he’s capanle of being a starter…where are they? Haven’t seen many posts defending that point in this blog….

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 23, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, not really on this blog but over here people think he’s a starter.

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.

by Imp on Jul 23, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth.

But I’m still scratching my head as to why he’s now got 50% of the “Yes” vote, but no one seems to want to publicly take his side in this forum…interesting…

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that most people are hopeful that he gets traded.

If he becomes a starter somewhere else, then the Eagles will get a higher draft pick in return.

DAT ASS!!

by DickMuffin on Jul 24, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great article, Scott, but I think there’s a little noise in the poll here, or that people might be interpreting the results wrongly.

I think the “No” vote is getting split between “No” and “Hopefully this is all put to rest”.

By voting “yes”, people are just saying they think he CAN (is good enough to) be a starter in the league again.

That does not mean:
1. That they think he WILL actually ever be an NFL starter again.
2. That they think he should start for the Eagles over Kolb

I for one would LOVE to see Vick starting this season — for another team.

by BrianS on Jul 26, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the compliment BrianS. And your analysis of the poll seems to be spot on.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 26, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

What up "T"?

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just read a story about 3 family pit-bulls mauling a 2-year-old to death

what beautiful creatures, man’s best friend. Vick is a monster. FUCK OFF

^Nights Of Cabiria

by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Jul 23, 2010 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, and this article did a nice job of downplaying Vick's role as a runner in ATL

no one ever claimed he was joe montana, he was billed as a new-era QB who could run and pass. To focus only on the passing and say that it proves him a bad qb, when clearly he was better at breaking down plays and/or running, is proof that you had an agenda with this article and let it affect your objectivity. Any objective person can see that Vick had certain other traits as a quarterback that made him effective besides accurate pocket passing, and if he ever gets back up to speed there’s no doubt he could be a dangerous quarterback again. Not every quarterback can be like Chad Pennington with his precision, but NO other quarterback has ever been like Vick when it comes to his speed. If he’s lost it he’s done, if he ever gets it back he could start and win ball-games.

^Nights Of Cabiria

by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Jul 23, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

You can’t appreciate a subhead that breaks up a long article (Joe Montana)? All I did was basically say he isn’t Montana – no one is but Vick is not a good QB. I broke down his running stats as well, I don’t know if you missed that. I also compared him to two other running quarterbacks, McNabb and Cunningham, both of whom were leagues ahead of Vick passing wise. Don’t tell me I ignored his other attributes.

As I mentioned previously, Vick’s feet were vital to the fame he achieved prior to his conviction and incarceration. If we’re going to discuss his running, it has to be taken into account that he clearly is about two steps slower than he was prior to his conviction. He can’t break away from players in the backfield as easily anymore, nor can he just simply weave in and out of the defense to win games. Last season he had his worst statistical running season of his career: 24 attempts, 95 yards, 4.0 average, 2 TDs. For his career he has scored 23 touchdowns via the run and has contributed 3,954 yards. That’s no longer the type of player that Vick is. Vick was given designed runs and just couldn’t find his way out of the backfield in important situations. On more than one occasion, Vick was not able to beat linebackers or defensive linemen to the sideline and was stopped before he could pick up decent yards. This isn’t your Madden 2004 Vick anymore.

If we take his passing stats and add them to his rushing stats, here are his career and seasonal combined averages:

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 23, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

"this isn't your Madden 2004 anymore"

So you’re saying this version of Vick wasn’t one of the more dangerous and difficult quarterbacks to defend against? Just because he was highly unconventional doesn’t mean he wasn’t good. He didn’t need to be a great passer with the speed he has. He just needed to be adequate, and he was. He produced wins and made dazzly plays. I was never a fan of him and thought him a prick, but to me denying his talent is absurd. And I don’t believe he will never be fast enough again, he will never be AS fast but will still be a dual threat.

Vick isn’t a great quarterback, but he’s one of the best 32 in the league, and I defy you to name 32 better without making me laugh.

^Nights Of Cabiria

by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Jul 24, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

probably should have copy and pasted that quote

^Nights Of Cabiria

by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Jul 24, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was a great PLAYER not a great QB. There’s a distinct difference. Also, he no longer has the speed, acceleration or quickness to ever be the same player that he was prior to his arrest and conviction. Your argument is mute.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 24, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is an interesting thought though...

I really don’t like Vick at all. But are there really 32 quarterbacks out there better than he? I mean he wouldn’t be ahead of many, but he could probably start for STL, CLE, or BUF this season and improve their offenses. Even if marginally.

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 24, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give that critique when he is allowed to play a full season.

Besides, can you out perform him?

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you outperform Jamarcus Russell? Is he a good QB? Does your argument make sense?

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Aug 5, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll try!

Anderson, Brady, Brees, Campbell, Carr, Cassel, Cutler, Delhomme (8), Favre, Feeley, Flacco, Garrard, Hasselbeck, Henne, Kolb, Leftwich (16), Manning, Manning, McCoy, McNabb, Moore, Orton, Palmer, Pennington (24), Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Ryan, Sanchez, Schaub, A. Smith (32), Sorgi, Stafford, Young (35).

That’s 35 guys I’d rather have as my starting QB than Vick. Maybe Anderson and Carr are debatable, that still leaves 33.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 28, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Sorgi isn't

Lmao

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 29, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh

I’d take Sorgi over Vick in a goddamn second.

Nope.

by bigmeanie08 on Jul 29, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahaahaha awesome.

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah and you would lose to a team lead by Vick.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually i’m convinced that that original article is trolling. “It’s trendy to be untrendy.” I get it there’s always a backlash against the backlash. People all hate on vick so you all fall into your whole “confirmation bias” routine where you only see the things that prove your points and discount things that don’t.
I wasn’t going to bring up the dogfighting thing. Because he did go to prison for it but I gotta call him out on this and someone should really. Is he REtarded? I’m not even joking or being mean. Is he literally RETARDED? I mean I have heard and seen a lot of stupid things in my day.. Again I am so not joking. Like can he even read? Worth 100million? and he blows it all to, you know, keep a hobby going? I mean what kind of bets were being made that it was worth risking 100million dollars? Good God. He may be the dumbest human being on the planet. This type of intelligence says “leader” really? When you are worth 100 million dollars ( 100 MILLION DOLLARS!! for gods sake) You are still pressured by the people around you and the culture you grew up in? God what a dumb sh!t. If he had felt like paying me I would have just burned his money in a big pit for like 50k it would have been a hell of a lot easier that THROWING it away.

Listen this is all fun and good har har but let’s not forget that Michael Vick, While a great athlete, May be the dumbest human being walking the planet. HE is actually the type of person that would probably even today fall for the “dickfor” joke. Hell we could probably convince him that if your hand is bigger than your face you might have cancer. He might even be dumb enough to believe our iced cream smelled funny.

I know everyone thinks he’s a nice guy, but honest to god listen to how the people on the eagles talk about him. They go into that voice. You know that voice parents do when they talk about their screw up kid? “oh he’s a good person though, oh he’s trying so hard, he’s doing a ‘nice’ job.” They talk about Vick like he’s some retard-mascot-sidekick. Like if he does something good does andy put a treat on his nose and make him wait until he says he can eat it? (haha dog training joke)
He’s as much a quarterback as a dog with two legs is a dog. They are both something but it sure as hell isn’t what they are supposed to be.

I don’t even care that he killed and tortured dogs. Whatever. Do Not Care. But it’s akin to Peyton Manning cooking meth in his backyard. Maybe it’s how he grew up and you know it’s something to do because life is crazy shitty in the ghetto but once you get a real job or make some real coin you know… you stop. Fuck. It is like really the sign that maybe the elevator doesn’t go to the top. I mean I want that guy to “lead” ? really?
I mean listen there are some dumb players in the NFL. Hell in every sport. But honestly I could see 90% of them making a living doing something else. Even if it’s working at McDonalds or some beat up car wash. Michael Vick would probably have been too stupid to even manage to run drugs in his neighborhood let alone hold down a real job. Maybe he could have squeaked by training and/or fighting dogs.

by TheRex on Aug 1, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t think I wrote a trolling article at all. In fact I believe I presented the facts as they were and put them out there. Consider also the foundations of this article were built upon a response to a B/R ‘article’. Finally, I tend to write about things that no one else does. In case you’re wondering what I am referring to, please feel free to read any of my prior Head the Footsteps and tell me that the main stories have been covered by the media and are “trendy”. Thank you.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Aug 4, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

AWWWW, PUT A SOCK IN IT

Opinions, you know what they say they are like. MV was what he was for ALT because that’s what they wanted him to be. MV will be a better QB because of his tutelage under the EAGLES. They had time to work on his fundementals and it will show in his play. If his doesn’t start here or somewhere else it will only be because of some twisted ass Black/White thing. You can denie it until you die, but if MV was white we wouldn’t even be having all of this dialog. If he gets the chance, he’s going to piss off all of the nay sayers with his play.

by greenbeef69 on Jul 23, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

You are an idiot. I’m sorry if this is breaking news to you, but it needed to be said.

This is NOT a black/white thing. Jamal Lewis went to jail and came back and played, Tank Johnson went to jail and came back and played… Black players have gone to jail and come back to starting jobs. If Vick never starts again its because he has lost the athletic ability that made him relevant or NFL franchises have decided that athletic QBs aren’t a championship-winning strategy. There’s enough racism in this country, imagining up even more of it just seems like a bad idea.

I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
JIBTA’s actually Jack Ikegwuonu... and he’s f***ing pissed.
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Jul 23, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You had me until you said: "You are an idiot."

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are an idiot.

This guy is terrible. At life and at football.

...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.

Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer

by EvilBanner on Jul 23, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You too.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

How the hell can you say this is a black/white thing WHEN I COMPARED HIM TO TWO OTHER BLACK QUARTERBACKS? TWO OF THE GREATEST QBs IN EAGLES HISTORY?

You’re ridiculous dude. The stats are right there in front of you. Stop being an asshole.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 23, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your dumb.. Mike cant throw... His mechanics still suck dick...

the only accurate throw I’ve ever seen him make was that one to Maclin and it still could’ve been a bit better…

Mike will not play because he’s not a QB, face it, he’s gone, he’s nothing but a 2nd RB on the field when you let him play QB and like most RB’s they dry up and die at age 30…

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

by wild_eagle on Jul 24, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just to clarify,

I know Vick is a QB, however for the sake of arguement he’s pretty much a small scatback.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

by wild_eagle on Jul 24, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, just shut the hell up.

This has absolutely nothing to do with his race. Vick was never a good QB to begin with. He had arguably the best rushing attack on his team, and a good TE in Crumpler. The only thing that he was great at was running, even though he had terrible ball security. So if it’s the “Black/White thing” like you say it is, then tell me, who would you want to start? A young QB(who just happens to be white) who has been in the system for many years, has learned the offense, and has been under the wing of one of the best QB’s of the past decade or a 30 yr old QB(who just happens to be black) who has been out of football for multiple years(and wasn’t that good to begin with), is new to our offense, and like I stated before, isn’t that good to begin with. You know what, you are absolutely right. Starting a white guy over a black guy is just wrong, no matter what the situation is. Forget about who is better at the position, that’s not important. He should get the starting job just because he is black. All of you who want Kolb to start are just a bunch of racist assholes. I’M CALLING AL SHARPTON ON ALL YOU CRACKAS!!!

DAT ASS!!

by DickMuffin on Jul 24, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

go back to philly.com

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - C&H

by alcatraz0109 on Jul 24, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Looks like you struck a nerve bro.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's Improving

How can you say that he can NEVER be a starting QB in the league again? You never know. The Eagles staff must be liking his progression or else they would have released him after his party where someone was shot. If he won’t get a chance here, he’ll get a chance somewhere else. Someone will pick him up and start him.

eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK

by eagleswin on Jul 26, 2010 10:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I said why he shouldn’t and left it up to the people to decide if he could (in the poll).

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 26, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could be a starter if a coach was dumb enough to let me, starting QB is just the first QB to take a snap. That said, he’ll never be a good QB again for 2 reasons. One he sucks and his athleticism is fading, and two you can’t be a good QB again when you never were one in the first place.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

“You can’t be a good QB again when you never were one in the first place.”

BS. You can improve and get better. I have a feeling Vick will turn into a better QB that before.

eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK

by eagleswin on Jul 26, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

So he will turn into a QB?

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 26, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So he will. We’ll see what happens. I believe so.

eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK

by eagleswin on Jul 28, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I posted that as a joke. I guess you missed what I did there.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 28, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know it was a joke :) ease up man

eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK

by eagleswin on Jul 28, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was just making sure you realized what I was trying to accomplish :P

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 28, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

While I do think Vick can be a decent QB (he’s more of a playmaker though), what Van Chimp says is true. You can’t become something again that you weren’t in the first place. I can’t be a professional athlete again because I never was one.

I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
JIBTA’s actually Jack Ikegwuonu... and he’s f***ing pissed.
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Jul 27, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

BS. You can improve and get better. I have a feeling Vick will turn into a better QB that before.

Which would mark the first time he was ever a good QB. Meaning that he wasn’t going to be a good QB again, just for the first time.

Want a s’more?

I haven’t had anything, how can I have some more of nothing?

YOU’RE KILLIN ME SMALLS!!!

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Aug 5, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

dude

first of all Vick threw a touchdown to Celek who isn`t fast in the first place second who else would be the falcons starter if Vick wasn`t there and I`m pretty sure that Randall Cunningham has played a lot longer than Vick so it would be pretty sad if Vick`s stats were better than Randall`s also Vick helped the falcons by rushing for a QB high 1,039 yards which helped them be a great rushing team and by the way those rushing yards from 2006 is better than is 902 in 2004.

by eaglesman2264 on Jul 28, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.

by Imp on Jul 28, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

dude

First of all, congratulations on the exceptional writing in the English language. I especially enjoy your exquisite use of punctuation and spot on capitalization. Ah, I basically bathe in your brilliant comprehension of this fine language.

Secondly, Vick threw a touchdown pass to Jeremy Maclin in the first round defeat to the Cowboys.
Thirdly, someone other than Vick would have been drafted or signed and would start. That is why Matt Ryan currently is the starter in Atlanta.
Fourthly, did you happen to gander at my statistical breakdown season-by-season or game-by-game? I did not just solely take a look at career versus career. Reading comprehension goes a long way in mounting a proper defense of your ideals.
Fifthly, he helped them by posting high rushing stats by a QB… which resulted in an amazing 7-9 record. In fact, Vick only had two winnings seasons as the Falcon’s starting QB (2002: 9-6-1, lost to Eagles in second round of the players; 2004: 11-5, lost to Eagles in NFC Championship game). He had two losing seasons and one 8-8 season. That’s just a great help to the team, I guess.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 28, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

second who else would be the falcons starter if Vick wasn`t there

Did you ever hear of Matt Schaub? You know, the probowl QB who just threw for 4,770 yds and 29 TD’s, the backup QB who the Falcon’s traded to Houston.

DAT ASS!!

by DickMuffin on Jul 29, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot about Schaub. Great point, DM.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Jul 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, awesome post.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 31, 2010 4:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Ok this was my res;ponse to that article. Yours is nice and well written mine is mean and sloppy.

I don’t even care that he killed and tortured dogs. Whatever. Do Not Care. But it’s akin to Peyton Manning cooking meth in his backyard. Maybe it’s how he grew up and you know it’s something to do because life is crazy shitty in the ghetto but once you get a real job or make some real coin you know… you stop. Fuck. It is like really the sign that maybe the elevator doesn’t go to the top. I mean I want that guy to “lead” ? really?
I mean listen there are some dumb players in the NFL. Hell in every sport. But honestly I could see 90% of them making a living doing something else. Even if it’s working at McDonalds or some beat up car wash. Michael Vick would probably have been too stupid to even manage to run drugs in his neighborhood let alone hold down a real job. Maybe he could have squeaked by training and/or fighting dogs.

by TheRex on Aug 2, 2010 12:06 AM EDT reply actions  

oops effed up the copy and paste. one more time.

actually i’m convinced that that original article is trolling. "It’s trendy to be untrendy." I get it there’s always a backlash against the backlash. People all hate on vick so you all fall into your whole "confirmation bias" routine where you only see the things that prove your points and discount things that don’t.
I wasn’t going to bring up the dogfighting thing. Because he did go to prison for it but I gotta call him out on this and someone should really. Is he REtarded? I’m not even joking or being mean. Is he literally RETARDED? I mean I have heard and seen a lot of stupid things in my day.. Again I am so not joking. Like can he even read? Worth 100million? and he blows it all to, you know, keep a hobby going? I mean what kind of bets were being made that it was worth risking 100million dollars? Good God. He may be the dumbest human being on the planet. This type of intelligence says "leader" really? When you are worth 100 million dollars ( 100 MILLION DOLLARS!! for gods sake) You are still pressured by the people around you and the culture you grew up in? God what a dumb sh!t. If he had felt like paying me I would have just burned his money in a big pit for like 50k it would have been a hell of a lot easier that THROWING it away.

Listen this is all fun and good har har but let’s not forget that Michael Vick, While a great athlete, May be the dumbest human being walking the planet. HE is actually the type of person that would probably even today fall for the "dickfor" joke. Hell we could probably convince him that if your hand is bigger than your face you might have cancer. He might even be dumb enough to believe our iced cream smelled funny.

I know everyone thinks he’s a nice guy, but honest to god listen to how the people on the eagles talk about him. They go into that voice. You know that voice parents do when they talk about their screw up kid? "oh he’s a good person though, oh he’s trying so hard, he’s doing a ‘nice’ job." They talk about Vick like he’s some retard-mascot-sidekick. Like if he does something good does andy put a treat on his nose and make him wait until he says he can eat it? (haha dog training joke)
He’s as much a quarterback as a dog with two legs is a dog. They are both something but it sure as hell isn’t what they are supposed to be.

I don’t even care that he killed and tortured dogs. Whatever. Do Not Care. But it’s akin to Peyton Manning cooking meth in his backyard. Maybe it’s how he grew up and you know it’s something to do because life is crazy shitty in the ghetto but once you get a real job or make some real coin you know… you stop. Fuck. It is like really the sign that maybe the elevator doesn’t go to the top. I mean I want that guy to "lead" ? really?
I mean listen there are some dumb players in the NFL. Hell in every sport. But honestly I could see 90% of them making a living doing something else. Even if it’s working at McDonalds or some beat up car wash. Michael Vick would probably have been too stupid to even manage to run drugs in his neighborhood let alone hold down a real job. Maybe he could have squeaked by training and/or fighting dogs.

by TheRex on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL, dude you are crazy. I read this earlier in the post.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 2, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t think I wrote a trolling article at all. In fact I believe I presented the facts as they were and put them out there. Consider also the foundations of this article were built upon a response to a B/R ‘article’. Finally, I tend to write about things that no one else does. In case you’re wondering what I am referring to, please feel free to read any of my prior Head the Footsteps and tell me that the main stories have been covered by the media and are "trendy". Thank you.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Aug 4, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you for the kind words concerning my writing ability, kind of missed them before I went onto my response.

Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank

by Scott Kessler on Aug 4, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Vicks a Retard. I mean god!! ..Yeah sorry I wanted to get the point across. I don’t even hate Mike Vick. You can’t “hate” him. There’s nothing there to hate

by TheRex on Aug 4, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

hey Scott. haha

Yeah I reread the beginning of my response and I guess I mis-represented myself a tad. I agree with you. I meant I thought the article you were referring to was trolling and being un-trendy on purpose just to drum up readings. My apologies on that.

by TheRex on Aug 7, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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