Is The Fact that Brandon Graham And Nate Allen Remain Unsigned A Cause For Concern?
by JasonB on Jul 19, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintRookies and selected vets are due to report to Eagles training camp on July 27th. That's just over a week away and yet neither of the Eagles' top two picks have signed yet. Should we be concerned? That's what we'll try to answer today.
The fact that top pick Brandon Graham(13th overall) hasn't signed yet is not a shock. Not a single first round pick has signed a contract yet and the first round picks are typically the last to sign. Last year's 13th overall pick, Brian Orakpo(also a DE), missed just one day of training camp and signed his contract on July 30th. The top picks will likely have to start signing to set the market before the Eagles can reach an agreement with Graham.
The Eagles second round pick, Nate Allen, is another story. Last year, the Eagles agreed to terms with second round pick LeSean McCoy in late June. Here we are in mid to late July and Allen is still not signed. The problem is, almost no second round picks have yet signed. A quick check over at NFL Labor shows that the Jets' Vladimir Ducasse is the only second round pick to sign a contract. That will likely change in the coming days, but as of now all second round picks are seemingly having trouble reaching a deal. In fact, only about half of the 3rd round picks have signed a contract. If second and third round picks don't start signing quickly in this coming week, which could certainly happen, the Eagles could be forced to start camp without Nate Allen. For a rookie, who is for now slotted in as the starting free safety, any days missed are sure to be detrimental to his and the teams' 2010 season.
It seems like every year these contracts get done later and later... and with the expiring CBA complicating all contract matters this offseason, it seems like NFL teams face opening training camps where they could be without their top two picks for at least a few days if not a few weeks.
For what it's worth, Brandon Graham says he'll be in camp either way.
"Even if I'm not signed, I'll be there, doing the learning part," Graham said. "I'm going to be at camp, regardless. Just to let Coach know I'm serious. If I'm not there, my starting position might be in jeopardy."
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I feel like coming out of college and playing professional football would be the main goal for these kids. They should be so excited to go out there and practice and prepare for their first upcoming season. The money always seems to be first priority though, and thats unfortunate. I understand its a business and they expect to get paid, but they should really just appreciate the chance to play pro ball. If they do well, they can negotiate a better contract after they have proven themselves (and I understand the majority of the time it is closer to the time the contract expires).
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Exactly
I think a majority of players that come into the NFL feel they are WAY more deserving than they’ve actually earned (which is nothing, professionally speaking). I think that the expiring CBA is definitely affecting all negotiations right now, so the fact that nobody is signing expediently is testament to that fact.
Overall though, each article and/or preview I read about Graham makes me like him more and more. His attitude is right, and I’m hoping that when he does get to training camp, he takes that leadership to this young defense and show us what he’s got.
You wonder
how much influence the agent really has. I’m sure that the agents are trying to get their money too.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
I think they work much like a morgage broker where they look 1st at the past aera history ( I.E. last year the first DE sellected made X) then they get an apraisal on the home ( I.E. what is this guy worth) and then try to argue inflation so every year the players sellected make more and more.
Please ignore the gramatic errors
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 19, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
On a side note is anyone else ready for a rookie pay scale?
for example…
1st round sellection = 4 years 4 mil
2nd round = 4 years 3 mil
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 19, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying those numbers however Rams are about to throw 45 Mil guarenteed to Stafford. While Tom Brady is about to make 3 mil this year you don’t see anything wrong with that?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta disagree
There’s a decent chance that this will be the only contract these guys ever sign. This is their one chance to set themselves and their family up for life. That’s something you can’t mess up.
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I was going to say the same thing
There is a chance that the player cannot play at the NFL level and theres also chances for serious injuries. Look at Jerome McDougle. Im sure he is happy he got that first round contract right instead of rushing to get it done. I dont even think he is playing anymore.
If they suck
they don’t deserve a multi million dollar contract. They are rookies anyways… you should already know what to expect money wise and at what spot you were picked. A couple thousand dollars more than the next guy isn’t going to make that big of a deal in the long run.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
First, it’s a couple hundred thousand dollars at the least and at most a million plus. So that is a big deal.
Plus, for top picks you really don’t know what to expect money wise. It’ll be a certain percentage over what a guy picked at your spot the previous year made, but there’s no set rookie scale in the NFL. And again, that certain percentage represents hundreds of thousands of dollars. The market has to be set every year.
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Didn't Smith, the 2nd rd pick in 2009, end up getting a larger
contract that Stafford?
I understand they want to make the most money as possible and it all depends on so many different factors and I understand that they should try and get every bit of it they can. BUT my point is, the game should be the most important thing and everyone should work their ass off to make sure they get a deal signed before training camp so we have everyone practicing together – which is what would be best for the team.
Regardless of having a rookie pay scale, they should have a deadline for signing contracts no matter what round you were picked in. You have from April to the end of July to ink a deal. 3 months of negotiations should be enough. I know, I know, they wanna wait for the players around them to sign so they can negotiate based on some of their contracts but damn… it just gets old. I understand the process but it doesn’t mean I like it.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Except… if this three to four year contract is the only contract they ever sign they should have put the effort into their education to have a back-up plan. If they are hoping that this NFL money is the only thing keeping their family set, then that is not very smart. Nothing is guarranteed in pro sports, thats why you stay in school and get your degree. A lot of the money they are making out of college, I’m sure they aren’t saving for future familys or their immediate familys. They are buying their first place and getting a new ride.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
The fact is that you never know. An injury or anything could derail your career. And while it’s nice if the guy has finished his degree and he can get a job as an accountant or something after football, but that doesn’t replace the hundreds of thousands/millions that he should be getting with his first contract. He only has one shot to get that right.
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Easy for you to say ...
… what they should do or have-done to have a back-up plan. I usually agree with you EG5, but on this one I think you’re stereotyping NFL players pretty hard. Even if I’d gone to college and gotten a degree, or was well on track to finish when I left early to get the highest-paying job I’d ever get, I’d still want to nail the first contract. Players in uncertain situations, like rookies and fringe players, are almost obligated to get as much as they can, especially since the team can and will drop them like a bad habit when something better comes along. A guy like Tom Brady, who has bank and alternate income, can afford to leave money on the table, but a rookie can’t.
This is useless conjecture about 95% of the time anyway, since most guys sign in advance of camp and report on time. I’d love if that were the case with Allen and Graham.
I agree about the influence of agents; I’m sure almost every player wants to be in camp on time and maximize his opportunity to have a successful career. Players think about football; agents are thinking about leverage and maximum paydays.
At this point, I don’t think there’s any harm in the players playing hardball. When they fail to report on Day 1, that’s when I start judging and gratuitously hating.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
all my point was
is that no one should count on a professional sporting career.
Sure, try and get the most money you can out of the deal. I think staying in shape and knowing your team and the playbook as well as the person there from day one is important too.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Didnt Graham finish up school and get a degree or did I hear wrong?
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Anyone have any contract insight?
When it comes down to these negotiations, what exactly are the issues on the table? Or essentially what are these agents and our FO sqabbling about? The two major items are money and contract period. But aren’t most of these fairly standardized because they are based on what that draft position got last year plus a bit, right?
Are these guys mostly concerned about that extra 50k in relation to the Millions they are signing for, or does it come down to the contract language and certain stipulations?
It’s not really about the team and the player. It’s finding out the market price. Both sides need to see where a guy slots in relation to the picks around him.
If there is an issue between player and team it’s usually about the years in the contract.
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It’s a cascading thing. Once the very highest picks sign, the point of reference starts to tumble down to the lower 1st round picks pretty quickly. However, those contracts on picks 1-5 are often the most complicated. It makes the process harder every year as the numbers go up and up.
Veritas Liberabit Te
Yes, and this is why the NFL needs to copy the NBA on rookie scale
There hasn’t been word one said about what John Wall or Evan Turner will make. It’s a non-issue, because it’s pre-determined. A couple weeks after the draft, these guys are balling hard in summer league.
Conversely, NBA and MLB need to copy the NFL’s non-guaranteed contract scenario. SO much better for the sport when you’re not paying Glenn Robinson and Jamal Mashburn (or Stephon Marbury) to not play for you.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
This is what's wrong with the NFL.
If there was one thing I’d have to say the NFL has all wrong, it’d be the rookie pay scale. One thing that’s wrong with the system is Sam Bradford will be the highest paid player in the league this year… before ever playing a snap.
And secondly, why in the world do these players have the right to “negotiate” with teams for more money? Why do teams have the right to negotiate to pay less money for that matter. Each slot in the draft should be all-but-set-in-stone regardless of position (except QB). This way rookie deals get done quickly (like the NBA) and this way rookies aren’t getting paid more than veterans.
AHHHH
complete agree with you Smitty. Each position in the draft should already have a number associated with it. You haven’t played so you have no right negotiating. They are already making more than 99 percent of the people in the world.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
Yeah, the rookie pay scale in the NFL is totally screwed up. That’s going to be a major point of contention in the new CBA negotiations.
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JaMarcus may well have clinched it
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
See my post just above yours
NBA has rookie pay scale figured out.
NFL has non-guaranteed & salary cap working well.
If a league ever were to combine them both, it’d be perfect for us as fans. Maybe not so much for the players.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
I’m not really worried but if I was Nate Allen I would tell my agent to get me into camp on time because I remember Adam Caplan saying that the team is still high on Demps so if he is out for a period of time it wouldn’t surprise me if they go with Demps as the starter especially since he has his head straight now.
and for that reason...
i’m praying for nate allen not to hold out.
by awd777 on Jul 19, 2010 9:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think players are allowed to participate in camp without a contract. I think that’s what Graham says
I’ll be there, doing the learning partBecause he can only watch and listen and not actually participate, which is better than nothing but I’d rather have him working out with the team.
They call me The Professor.
They are allowed
The reason they dont participate is because if they get injured before signing the contract, the team can pay them a significant amount less or choose to not sign them at all if the injury is too severe. The player does not want to risk a huge rookie contract like that for a few days of practice.
do you have a source? I’m pretty sure I remember hearing about players not wanted to hold out but without a contract they couldn’t participate in training camp. Obviously I can’t prove this without some time to research.
I get your point and I wouldn’t participate either but I’m pretty sure they aren’t allowed I mean if that were the case why would they show up to OTAs?
They call me The Professor.
Ill try to find you a source. Im pretty sure OTAs are mandatory for all rookies whether they are signed or not. The risk of getting injured is very slim because OTAs is mostly just cardio, lifting, and running through technique and plays. They dont wear pads and dont hit so it minimalizes the chance of injury.
I’ll look but I don’t think they can be at camp either. Even just to watch film.
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You guys were right
“Unsigned players can attend voluntary camps but not training camp”
I found it in this article written about 2 years ago. Theres not much on this subject when looking around the web.
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-07-12/sports/sp-2102_1_training-camp
Same story, different year
all 1st rounder picks and top 2nd rounders are always the last to sign anyway. Teams usually go along the market (up or down) once the first domino falls. The only time when draft picks are signed early is when the team that holds the #1 signs the player before the draft (like what Houston did a couple years ago). it may not be for another couple days, but once one player signs, the rest will follow.
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It doesn't matter what Graham wants to do
He is not allowed to be in camp unsigned. Not in practices, not in meetings, nothing but the OTA’s.
If he shows up, the Eagles will send him away. They have to or risk being penalized by the NFL.
Every once in a while a player tries to show up unsigned. I think it was Shawn Andrews who was not allowed to attend the team’s first meeting even though his contract was just about finalized (and was done later that evening). He was sent away for the night and reported the following morning when he was signed.
I've never worried about when the rookies sign
Lets be real here. If your depending on a rookie to solidify your defense your already in trouble.
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"you're"
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by no1pipelayer on Jul 20, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
Also, if three days or so is going to ruin your season, maybe you weren’t going to have such a good season anyway.
A couple days I can stomach. When it starts getting into a week-plus, then I think you’re sabotaging your rookie year. Once you get behind in reps and on the depth chart, once games begin, there’s not really a lot of practice time to make up ground. It’s all game-plan related.
And in all honesty, we’d like for our rookies to contribute this year. I’m fine with Tapp or Juqua starting, but I’d like to see something from Graham, at least in the latter half of the year.
Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
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