Who is rebuilding?
by Joe_D on Apr 5, 2010 4:06 PM EDT
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In 2002, McNabb was lost for a significant amount of time at the end of the year. Could the Eagles win without him?
Koy Detmer 1-0
A.J. Feely 4-1
Total record without McNabb? 5-1
Fast forward to 2005 when we had 19 players on injured reserve and we had the most dismal season ever with Mike McMahon.
And then again in 2006, the Eagles were on the brink of mediocrity with the same inconsistent offense. On the surface the Eagles offense looked really good but they were either boom or bust and had trouble sustaining nice long drives. Our record was an ugly 5-5 and then McNabb went down with a serious ACL tear.
Jeff Garcia 5- 1
Luckily, McNabb stayed relatively healthy again up until 2007 missing two games due to a thumb injury.
A.J. Feely 0-2
Feely looked impressive nearly defeating the undefeated Patriots and then followed it up with an unimpressive performance against the Hawks. Feely forced too many balls and led to way too many crucial INTs.
In 2009 we lost McNabb again for two games. We finally got to see what Kevin Kolb looked like after being able to prepare with the starters.
Kevin Kolb 1-1
Total record without McNabb (not counting the season where we had nearly 20 players on IR)? 11-5
So again, who's rebuilding and who says we can't win without McNabb? With plenty of picks in the most potent draft in 15 years, I really like our chances to build this franchise even better than when McNabb was here the last decade.
In the FO we trust.
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You know
You’re going to get so much hate for this post. I agree, though. We are not rebuilding.
The thing that cracks me up is when people say we’re a 5-11 team without McNabb but if we have him all of the sudden we can make a Superbowl run — and in the same breath they’ll say the o-line stinks, the defense stinks and that’s why Dallas whooped our ass two weeks in a row.
I will say from my perspective I was holding out the rebuilding talk until the McNabb trade.
Had the trade included a player that instantly improved the D (NA for example), I don’t know that I’d argue rebuilding. But it seems pretty clear the FO intends to use this deep draft to build a young, strong defense. Well, all those rookies aren’t going to start Week 1. Most might not contribute much this season at all. Which is fine, because they will hopefully make us scary in 2 or 3 years. Still, that’s rebuilding.
Who is rebuilding?
We are. I’m not saying we won’t do well this year; we certainly could. But when you only have two players above 30 on your team, and those players are your kicker and backup DE, you are rebuilding. You point to backup QBs doing well and I point to our 5-11 season when McNabb was injured and we blew. We might get 10+ wins this year, but I doubt it.
I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever
I think re-building means having a fire sale for talented players – but only if you don’t have their replacements in place.
QB is the most important position, and we’ve been grooming one for 3 years. The Eagles had to make a decision. There is no right or wrong. If Kolb is a terrible QB, there’s no way to say the Eagles made the wrong decision, because there’s no way to prove McNabb would’ve sustained his level of play for the Eagles.
If McNabb wins 2 Super Bowls in Washington, there’s no way to say it was the wrong decision, because there’s no telling he would’ve done the same in Philly. They had to make a decision, and they made that decision. Whether you’re for or against the decision, it’s best to just accept it because it has happened and there’s no turning back.
I am the people's troll :3™
Stop
Logic and rationality have no place in this discussion!
by Greg M on Apr 5, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Acceptance?
Fine.
Agreement?
Fuck no.
...But if he pulls the rug on his quarterback, Reid must do it knowing that he let McNabb down more than McNabb ever let him down.
Phil Sheridan--Philadelphia Inquirer
Ok so according to you
A.J Feeley is better than kolb.
by rainvillefromottawa on Apr 5, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
Outstanding
"I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel
by foos05 on Apr 5, 2010 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not just about McNabb.
Look at our defense. In the secondary we have 4 positions and 2 definite starters. Marlin Jackson might make a good FS or he might make a good CB. At this point let’s call him the starting FS. He’s a question mark though. Opposite Asante, we got nothin’ worth starting. LB is murky. Stew should be back and ready to go, but he’s technically a question mark. Jordan is good, but not great and then we have who? Fokou? Gaither? I’m not comfortable with either. Defensive line isn’t bad now that we have Tapp, but it could still use help. Add the need for some OL help and you don’t exactly have a set-in-stone team.
A stellar offense with a porous defense doesn’t usually add up to a SB. It usually doesn’t even add up to the playoffs. And expecting Kolb to have a great season is folly. He will be a first time starter against a tough schedule. Aaron Rodgers struggled his first year and not only because he didn’t have great weapons. Kolb will struggle (which is fine), so wins won’t exactly fall down at our feet.
I would say there are 3-6 question marks on defense that can greatly affect this team this season. Even if it’s just 3, that’s a lot to leave up to rookies or average-at-best veterans. Add in that our first pick might be OL and those rookies become even less likely to impact the squad this year.
I think we are rebuilding because I can’t see how this defense can cover up for Kolb’s inevitable first year struggles. Maybe it will only be a one year rebuilding period, but this team is not ready to compete for the NFC this year.
by NOLACuse on Apr 5, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed and Rec'd
I don’t think we have filled in many holes over the off-season (Mike Bell was a good addition though), while we created a new one with the Sheldon Brown trade.
This will be a year for solidifying ourselves at the positions that are question marks, and hopefully, for new talent to develop.
Officially contributing to worldwide confusion since 1997
Aaron Rodgers didnt sruggle AT ALL
He came in and did very well. his defense and o-line were just really bad
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
He actually had lot's of 4th quarter issues and late season problems from what I remember.
He put up gaudy numbers for his situation and it was more than obvious he would be a great QB for the Packers, but he still had some problems.
And it’s funny you say that because our defense doesn’t look so hot right now and our OL, while hopefully good, isn’t settled with Cole at C. Do you really think rookies can successfully fill all the defensive holes we have? If our offense is constantly asked to win games with a young QB do you really think we won’t struggle at all?
our defense was bad
but i dont think its as bad as u make it sound. it doesnt take much for it to turn around. denver two years ago blew and ended up being pretty good this year
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
The Saints also. They both added proven veterans though.
We will be adding all rookies or veterans with question marks/ things to prove. That is quite a different scenario. Rookies typically don’t jump right in and contribute in a meaningful way. Some do certainly, but even 2nd rounders can take a year or two to develop properly. And uncertain veterans can go either way in a new system. There is no guarantee that Jackson is an answer at FS or CB. Tapp I’m more comfortable with, but even he is settled as a contributor.
Of course it’s not just about McNabb, but how can you say it’s rebuilding if we have a few different starters from last year?
When Bradley returns, it’s likely that 2 of 3 starters at linebacker (possibly all 3) will be players that were on the team in 2008. How is that rebuilding? We’d just be using different starters.
If we start the season and every starter on offense and defense was on the team in 2008 (except for Maclin and McCoy), can you call that rebuilding?
I am the people's troll :3™
Oh, and as far as the secondary goes, I’m not saying it’s likely, but it is possible that Hobbs, Samuel, Mikell, and Macho/Demps are the starters to begin the season. Would that be re-building?
I am the people's troll :3™
No, but that would be a shitty secondary and would warrant rebuilding.
Or, if that term scares you, renovating of the secondary.
I think that's just semantics.
Just because players were on the team doesn’t mean they were starters or are worthy of starting. I would say the defense is in need of rebuilding or renovating given all the question marks. If all those question marks are handled with in house talent that is a step down from the previous starters, that’s not good no matter how you cut it.
It seems to me people have a problem with the term rebuilding when a firesale isn’t involved. So we’ll just call it renovating. Still time-consuming, costly and inconvenient. Maybe the whole thing won’t be brand new, but large parts of it will be, for better or worse.
Definitely our defense that concerns me
I wouldn’t call us rebuilding because we lost Mcnabb, I think the fact that we’re rolling into a season with so many guys penciled in to start who have never had that responsibility before could be called rebuilding.
I’ll go on record to say that losing Sheldon will be a bigger blow to the team than losing McNabb. The dropoff from McNabb to Kolb is not nearly as sharp as the drop from Sheldon to Patterson/Hobbs/Hanson
"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)
Agreed
I’ve been saying that the offense had some weird sort of efficiency during all those times we were McNabb-less. Joe D took the time to piece together the records of those games and I appreciate it. We aren’t rebuilding, we’re turning the page at QB. Rebuilding is when you tear it down to the dirt. We have a number of picks that will be used to fill some holes in our squad (namely 2ndary and interior oline). Bottom line is that next season, we will be a playoff team, no less or more formidable than seasons past.
There’s nothing to rebuild here folks – there’s a new front door on the house and in 3 weeks we’ll go shopping to look for a couple new windows and shutters.
Just Say No to Myron Ro lle
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 5, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
well put analogy
however i think we may need to shop for a new D’fence LOL
"It was a matter of pride. You want to put that (opponent) on his back, that’s the name of the game. These (players) today are out there playing pitty-pat."
Chuck Bednarik
by northern eagle on Apr 5, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
So we're renovating?
That still takes some time. Don’t see how S, CB, LB and DL depth can all be solved by rookies this season. They can all be solved by this year’s draft, but that doesn’t mean the problem itself will be solved before those rookies all have a chance to develop.
Keep in mind one of those ‘doors’ was FS and it was more of a gaping hole. It has been filled, but I’m not sure that Jackson is a solid door as much as he is a french door. He could be either, we don’t really know yet. I’m not sold on this team as a playoff team. I live in New Orleans have watched enough Saints games to know that the best offense in the world sometimes isn’t enough to make the post-season.
Yes
But Reid and Co. Construction Company has been renovating for years while no one has been watching. There’s less than a handful of parts on this house more than 30 years of age. For the time being we’ve scoured the market and picked up some parts that are serviceable but not permanent. We’re always looking to upgrade. The house is ready for an open house tomorrow but if you give us a few more weeks – a handful of new parts will be delivered. Upon installation, you’ll be lining up to place a bid on it because it’s ready for playoffs.
Just Say No to Myron Ro lle
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 5, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
See I disagree.
You aren’t talking about renovating, you’re talking about standard housework, which the Eagles constantly do. Renovating means a portion of the house is getting taken apart and replaced or changed. It usually takes a long time (but not as long as rebuilding…usually) and is very inconvenient. I see this year as a renovation. The defense is getting significantly changed and won’t be occupiable for awhile. Possibly next year. That could very well mean no playoffs.
The defense needs 2 players in the 2ndary (1 of whom can be Hobbs, Jackson or Harris for a short period of time if needed). Your LB’s are Fokou, Bradley and Jordan – if they nab someone in the draft to upgarde the LB corps, cool – if not we’ll deal. We’ve addressed the DLine already with the acquisition of Tapp. If there’s a nice playmaker we can add, cool – if not we’ll deal. Between Bunkley, Patterson and Dixon – there interior DLine isn’t an area of concern, nor is Cole. So you’re worried about Parker/Tapp and I’m okay with it.
Get me two 2ndary rooks for McDermott and Jauron to play with on defense – find an interior lineman to start or backup the C/RG spot – and we’re good to go in my eyes.
Just Say No to Myron Ro lle
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 5, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If I see the phrase "we'll deal" multiple times on D, that's not a good sign.
You don’t want to simply “deal” with guys who are starting. “Dealing” with backups is fine, but starters? You want to be confident in them. You really trust Hobbs or Hanson to replace Brown? I don’t. And since Jackson isn’t a guaranteed asset at Safety, strong CB’s would be nice. McD and Jauron can have all the rookie DBs to play with that they want, that doesn’t mean any of them will necessarily be contributing until late in the year (if next season at all). By then the playoffs may be out of the picture. I just don’t understand where people see a solid defense for sure here. I see a broken secondary that might be OK, but could really use a franchise safety and high quality CB. I see LBs with potential for greatness, but almost equal potential for mediocrity. I like Cole, I like the interior defensive line and with Tapp, I like that whole setup much better. But Tapp is technically a question mark until he isn’t, so we can’t exactly say that we are fine there either. If we end up having to count on rookies for this D to work, we are in trouble. I just don’t see any way around that.
getting rid of all our old players
just like we did taylor, vincent, douglas, staley, and trotter
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Dawkins may have led it, but
Im’a bet Dumervil, Bailey, Goodman, DJ Williams, Mike Nolan, etc. are also large parts of the reason they did so well.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
westbrook
westbrook sucks at this point .. mcnabb is declining .. brown is still good .. but hes gonna decline soon .. and dawk is still dawk .. i love him . but they over paid for him thats why hes a bronco
by jack is better than asante on Apr 5, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
From 2002-2008...
We had a top ten defense. Right now, not even close.
I don’t believe there is only one type of re-building where you start from scratch. I consider what the Eagles F.O. just did in the last two offseasons as a form of rebuilding as well.
Losing 2 marquee names on offense, even if there’s in theory backup plans for that, plus a lot of question marks on the defense=rebuilding.
False – People get too caught up in “marque names”. A name doesn’t make you an elite player. The ‘10 versions of McNabb and Westbrook aren’t but a shell of what they once were. Move on.
Just Say No to Myron Ro lle
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 5, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As an alternate!
Just Say No to Myron Ro lle
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 5, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
brees,romo,favre,warner,manning,cutler ,ryan,mcnabb..nfc deeper in the QB dept.
g pct comp yrds td int
2009 Philadelphia 14 92.9 267 443 60.3 3553 253.8 8.0 22 10
not bad if you ask me
g pct comp yrd td int
2009 Jacksonville 16 83.5 314 516 60.9 3597 224.8 7.0 15 10
Campbell and McNabb had almost identical numbers last year.
McNabb 60.3 completion percentage 3553 yards 22 TDs 10 INTs 92.9 Rating
Campbell 64.5 completion percentage 3618 yards 20 TDs 15 INTs 86.4 Rating
Not exactly a huge difference, I’m not saying McNabb and Campbell are equal because they aren’t. But it’s a smaller margin now then it was a few years ago. And yes I know McNabb missed 2 games but that’s become something of an expectation.
They call me The Professor.
i guess would would have rather had garrard then.... and your wrong about the completion pct. it was 60.9
if you think 5 compared 12 in the TDs to Ints. is no big deal then i may ? your football IQ
I said not exactly a huge difference let’s factor in that Campbell was sacked 43 times versus McNabbs 35. Campbell was constantly behind where he had to force balls to try and make something happen.
You can question my football IQ all you want, just keep showing up for class.
They call me The Professor.
I’ll also remind you that McNabb is the least intercepted QB in the NFL mostly because he throws dirtballs and doesn’t take many chances.
They call me The Professor.
first let me apologize about the iq thing. all i can say is im f$#ng pumped he is with a team with less weapons
couse as you know he is a giant killa.
Man, I’m a Campbell defender, but I won’t compare him to Don.
McNabb had more yards per game, more TDs (in less games), and less INTs.
I am the people's troll :3™
I believe I’ve covered all of that …
I’m not saying McNabb and Campbell are equal because they aren’t.
And yes I know McNabb missed 2 games but that’s become something of an expectation.
They call me The Professor.
Campbell and McNabb had almost identical numbers last year.
But you also said that, and that’s what I was disputing.
I am the people's troll :3™
I did say that … and it is true they had very close numbers last year.
Lots of things come into play here most importantly the Redskins ran the ball slightly more than us and passed slightly less. 2 TDs difference isn’t that big of a deal considering how high powered an offense we had and how anemic the Skins were. As a team we had like 12 more TDs then them.
Campbell was under constant pressure with less weapons. The reason for the comparison is simple, McNabb will be in Campbells shoes this coming year we’ll see what kind of numbers he puts up.
They call me The Professor.
The biggest reason Shanahan brought Mcnabb in and the biggest difference between Mcnabb and Campbell is the long ball.
They put the stat up on NFL Network and Mcnabb’s passer rating throwing 21 or more yards was 100.5 (5th best in the league) with a high completion percentage and Campbell’s, I don’t remember exactly but he was horrendous at it.
I think Shanahan is going to uses Mcnabb like he used Cutler in Denver. A lot of deep balls, and throws moving out the pocket, playing to his strengths.
Last year, you can definitely say Campbell did more with less(just like Mcnabb for most of his career) so the real comparisons can be made when Mcnabb finishes his first season there.
Imagine if McNabb had all of these
weapons in his prime when linemen couldn’t dream of catching him! Kolb gets the advantage at that!
McNabb got Pinkston and Thrash
Kolb gets Maclin and Jackson
Glad we always had a good Def!
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