Asante Samuel - King of the whiff
by MG77 on Mar 9, 2010 5:26 PM EST
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Saw this article over at ProFootballFocus.com:
Basically it examines every cornerbacks and has a nice little formula that compares how efficient they were at tackling by looking at missed tackles/solo tackles. The formula is in the article but it isn't really that complicated.
Guess who was number 1 in missed tackles? Asante Samuel and it wasn't even close.
Missing an astounding 32.76 percent of the solo tackles he attempted was ... Eagles cornerback Asante Samuel. Samuel has always been known as a coverage corner with outstanding ball skills and a penchant for jumping routes, but his level of tackling inefficiency is unacceptable and hurt the Eagles over the course of the season. To put things in perspective, Samuel missed 15 more than his partner Sheldon Brown, who finished just outside the top 15. For more perspective, consider that Samuel's TIR was almost 10 points higher than the next player.
Samuel made 39 solo tackles but missed an astounding 19 tackles. The next closest CB was Ronde Barber in TB with 16 missed tackles. Joselio Hanson all made the Top 10 list of CB whiffers by making 30 solo tackles and missing 7 tackles.
Now it should be noted that the issue of small sample sizes is pretty apparent because even 1 missed tackle could easily drop someone out of the Top 10 (e.g., Joselio Hanson). That doesn't really explain Samuel though who easily is the worst tackling CB in the league.
It shouldn't be a surprise though about Samuel. 'Boys took advantage of this the last two weeks by running a fair amount of running plays to the left-side of the field.
Couple of thoughts:
1. I would be curious to see how many of Samuel's missed tackles were on passing plays vs. running plays and how many more yards it resulted in. I would bet it was a large amount.
2. If Samuel is picking off 8-9 passes a year, you generally can live with his mediocre tackling. However, if he is only picking off 3-4 passes it becomes harder to tolerate with a guy who is the worst-tackling CB in the league.
3. I was kind of surprised in see Hanson in the Top 10 though but I guess I shouldn't be. After he came back from the suspension, he was brutal and I really wonder if he can rebound this year to be a capable nickel/dime CB. I tend to doubt it and I am wondering if the Eagles think Hobbs can rebound to reclaim the nickel CB spot. Still wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles either bring in a FA CB or use a fairly high draft pick on one either.
4. Brown is really the only CB on this team that can tackle. Rest range from terrible (Samuel) to average including Patterson & Hobbs.
5. It wouldn't surprise me if the Eagles' secondary was among the league leaders (if not the league leader) in missed tackles because Jones had his share of missed tackles this year too.
6. Shoddy tackling was an issue that plagued this defense at several times this year and I don't know how much of that/if any had to do with McDermott taking over as the D-coordinator. Bill Bergey made a comment if I recall during one postgame that he didn't remember an Eagles' defense in recent memory that struggled to tackle and made some many fundamental gaffes in tackling. That really is on the players and not the coordinator.
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Lets not forget the LBs
Who collectively as a unit struggled to tackle. Pass rush was an issue for this defense at times but I would argue that tackling (or the lack of it) was just as big an issue if not even a bigger one.
As much as Gocong sucks in pass coverage, the man was a very sure tackler. I will even give the Macho cheerleaders’ here a crumb and say that Harris was probably the best tackler among the trio of Demps/Harris/Jones at FS last year.
Hopefully getting back Bradley and making a few other tweaks will improve the overall tackling of this unit. I have no hope for Samuel but at least he brings some other real tangible benefits to the table.
I would be curious
what his tackling numbers were over his whole career. I know he isn’t a great hitter/tackler but last year he was playing injured. I don’t expect him to have great number by any means. But I do bet they were better than last year. And to be honest who cares if our star turn over cornerback is a great tackler? If the fron 7 do their job the cb’s dont need to tackle.
Missed tackles
Samuel only missed 7 tackles in 2008 and 8 tackles in 2009. I do wonder if his health didn’t impact his ability to tackle last year. No other defender in the NFL had such a large jump in missed tackles last year.
If you put a really solid core around him Asante's deficiencies can be masked and he's great
But when this defense fell apart he was called on alot more to tackle and he is just not built for it, and when he throws himself into his tackles he comes up visibly hurt quite often. If we had a really good defense around him we wouldn’t care about his tackling, as was the case his first year here when he lived up to the billing.
His tackling is admittedly atrocious though
My "t" and "y" buttons are messed up so don't bitch at me about misspelling, I'm just saying.
by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Mar 9, 2010 6:40 PM EST reply actions
Agree for the most part
If the Eagles were a better tackling team, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue but they just don’t have many good tacklers in their secondary or their LB core.
i dont get why people hate asante
he’s the best defensive player on the team. who cares if he cant tackle?
I think cause his misses can be as devestating
to the eagles as his pics can be to our opponents. He definitely is a high risk player. I personally like him, but can see the risk he creates.
Here's the thing, I don't care
And I don’t mean that in a jerk-y way, I just don’t particularly care that the dude can’t tackle. He makes big plays and if we had better safeties his tackling mishaps wouldn’t matter much. I like the guy, he’s and offensive player on defense and keeps us in games with the TDs he scores and sets up with picks.
I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
Stats say otherwise
Besides those 9 INT, he didn’t make any other impact plays all year. 0 QB sacks/pressures/hurries and his overall numbers before showed that he was a below average coverage corner last year.
Stats don't necessarily say otherwise
Sheldon Brown was targeted 86 times, Samuel was targeted 67 times. While Shledon’s stats per target are better, there’s a reason Samuel was targeted less, his ballhawk ability is scary. Sure, he gets beat sometimes, badly. But he also scares quarterbacks and makes big plays. And hell, if every player on our team made 9 impact plays every year i’d be ecstatic.
I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
and that’s why TEs beat us. We’ve got some damn good CBs on the outside. Asante is certainly above average in my opinion.
I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
lol saying "asante is certainly above average" is like me saying
Peyton Manning is above average…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
How can you make that correlation between the 2?
Manning is the best QB in the league. Asante isn’t even, arguably, the best cornerback on our team. Asomougha, Revis, those would deserve fair comparison at their respective positions to Manning at his.
Now for what Asante does, he might be the best at. That is jump routes, make the picks. But even there it isn’t assured. Champ Bailey does that, Charles Woodson does that. Actually, yeah Woodson does that better, while getting burnt less.
Listen I like Asante, I think he is a fine CB. I think with some strong safety play behind him he would be amazing at what he does, and I also think he is an above average CB, but he is not the Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or any number of others at his position. I would liken Asante Samuel to Donovan McNabb in all honesty. When he is on, he is fantastic. When he is off, he is really off and will make dumb mistakes repeatedly.
" There is no I in team." Phil Jackson to Michael Jordan
"Yes, but there is in win." Michael Jordan's response
'I have a question." Random Soldier
"Well I have an answer or a damn good lie." SFC Strader
by Talon Talent on Mar 10, 2010 6:52 AM EST up reply actions
Personally
I would rather have Asomougha than anyone else in the league opposite Brown. That way I would know they would throw to a guy who only gives up completions half the time and can hit with the best of ‘em. Also, Asomougha and Revis are game-changing corners in a better way than Samuel. If you don’t believe that, see how few yards all of the #1 receivers had going up against Revis last year. IMHO, that is worth more than 9 INTs, unless you are Ed Reed and take 4 of them back
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Mar 10, 2010 6:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'd definitely agree with that
I’d love to have a shutdown cornerback, much preferred to Samuel. But I think people take him for granted, the guy is a really good CB. Most teams would kill to have him as one of their starters.
I Am Better Than Jack Who Some Fool Thinks Is Better Than Asante (IABTJWSFTIBTA)
As a starter yeah sure but what about his contract
But he is getting top #5 CB money and he didn’t play nearly up to that level last year. You could pretty easily argue he was a top 20 (maybe even 15) CB but there were alot of guys in the league who simply had better years including one guy on his own town (Brown).
If Samuel plays like he did in 07/08, he is worth the money. If he plays like he did last year, he isn’t.
What I'm saying is that there the best at what they do.. Asante gets INT's and
makes plays, nobody can really do what he does, same w/ payton, he’s prolly going to be the best ever before he’s done.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
Ridiculous argument
Peyton Manning is a HOF QB who is arguably the best QB in the league last year and for the past 10 years.
Samuel hasn’t even been the best CB on his team the past 2 seasons.
ok fine replace payton with Eli.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
so your saying that
Eli is going to be one of the best by the end of his career
Let's get it Birds.
by homestar2281 on Mar 10, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
nope, I'm just saying compare Eli to Asante, the way MG77 was
making it out is that I have to pick an slightly above QB to describe what I was trying to.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
asante's tackling is frustrating
even more frustrating is his attitude towards it.
but to be honest, i love having him on the team and i love his ability to make the big play. His poor tackling is more than worth his ability to pick the ball off. I love our corners. FS is another story…
Whatever
We bought him in to jump routes and get turnovers and that’s what he does. He pretty much won the 2nd Redskins game picking up Campbell in two critical moments. He also had huge plays last years in the playoff run. He’s not going to tackle as well as Sheldon, oh well he’s good for what he does.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I don't know
He is NOT the best def. player on this team. The guy never gets up in press when he knows we have a blitz coming and 9-10 times, they convert. Everyone is too obsessed with interceptions. I guess I can’t get that screen to Austin the scored a td out of my head. That should have been a 4 yard loss if this guy could wrap up.
I heart Dawkins
Personally I don't care if he can't tackle the guy makes big plays.
I love shelden brown but fuck it when you can get 9 picks 1 player, I will take the risky gambler each time.
by Young Eagle on Mar 9, 2010 9:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
so, how many of those picks directly resulted in us scoring? and how many of asante’s missed tackles directly resulted in points (either missing the tackle on a touchdown or failing to get the stop on 3rd)? Cause I can remember him jumping pump fakes at least twice this season that resulted in touchdowns, which cancels out the TDs he scored himself (being zero this year).
Sure he can jump routes, but so can everyone else if they want to give up on stopping the double move. I keep thinking back to the Pro Bowl and watching him get smoked on a double move for a TD. The whole league knows.
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Mar 9, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Still
the matter of fact is he makes big plays, he may get burned here or there when he plays but honestly he had 9 interceptions and that’s alot. Take the good with the bad.
by Young Eagle on Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I remember
him delivering a big hit and causing a fumble at the goal line. Macho Harris just looked at the ball like it was an incomplete pass and the other team recovered.
I also remember him making/taking a huge hit down field that he really got crushed on. He came off the field for a couple plays. Came back on, went back off. It was reported that he may be out a couple weeks and then he played almost every down for us. And yes he missed A LOT of tackles. But I have a feeling if Brown wasn’t playing injured, if Patterson wasn’t not playing due to inj, if we had any other corner that could take the field he would of took a few games off to heal.
If you’re gonna knock him give him the credit too. And the pro bowl?? Do you think DJax scores on that long bomb if it wasn’t the PB? The guy running after him was literally patting him on the shoulder as early as the five yard line. The guy didnt try and tackle him. Its a game for show.
If you read up some MG77 posted that Samuels missed 7 tackles in 2008 and 8 in 2007. Last year numbers were bolstered for some reason. Maybe injury, maybe he is getting old and feels he is too fragile. IDK but he is an elite corner in the league and he plays hard for this team.
Overall below average
Here are some of the other stats on Samuel and his rank among CBs:
6 PD (47th in the league)
5 TDs he gave up (t-92nd in the league)
5 penalties, 3 pass interference (t-81 in the league)
67.2% pass completed against him (85th in the league)
590 yds/ 13.1 AVG given up (74th in the league)
0 QB sacks/hits/pressures (obviously last in the league)
Those 9 INT cover up for what really was a below average year although. It was relatively easy to throw on Samuel last year as evidenced by a 67.2% pass completed and the 13.1 AVG both of which were well below average among CBs last year. Brown was much better on most counts including a much better pass completed against pct. (51.2%).
I would be fine with Samuel if he was a “shut-down CB” but the numbers clearly show that he wasn’t close to being that last year. If he has the same kind of stats this year and only 3-4 INTs, he will be a below average CB.
it says tied for 92nd in the league
i would love to know how many that is out off just as a way to judge how good/bad that is
is at peace with the fact that i am a DICK.... i am good at it.... it is what i do.... it defines who i am.... will i be hated?? most definitely... do i care?? hell no...
"youve got enemies? good. that means you actully stood up for something" -Eminem
i guess i could have looked that up but thanks
thats a lil shocking i didnt think it was so bad, i mean i knew he wasnt the greatest but damn
is at peace with the fact that i am a DICK.... i am good at it.... it is what i do.... it defines who i am.... will i be hated?? most definitely... do i care?? hell no...
"youve got enemies? good. that means you actully stood up for something" -Eminem
When we brought him in from New England
We knew what we were getting a high risk big play corner and that’s exactley like he’s been playing so for me I’m not too worried about his tackling or coverage(which still is inportant).
by Young Eagle on Mar 9, 2010 10:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not true
His 2007/2008 seasons were notably better in the pass coverage and the number of missed tackles was much lower too. Samuel had 9 INTs but no other part of his game last year was close to being a Pro Bowler.
Not to sound redundant but
the guy just makes plays I know other people are going to be more critical on how he plays but that’s enough for me.
by Young Eagle on Mar 9, 2010 11:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Last year
He was really a one-dimensional guy. He didn’t “make plays” in the running game, pressuring the QB, and was fairly below average in pass coverage.
Kind of the old Rob Deer analogy. He may hit 30 HRs but he has a low average, Ks alot, doesn’t take many BBs, and stinks defensively he has limited overall value. That was Samuel last year.
He was notably better in pass coverage in 2007/08. That is the guy the Eagles are paying top dollars to. Not the ’09 version.
i think what young eagle is trying to say
is that even if asante struggled in a lot of areas he still has a MAJOR upside. idk who said it earlier but he does scare quarterbacks into throwing another way. and if they do throw his way there is a large chance that the ball is in our hands. i mean im all in favor of him getting better in other areas but his int rate is great
is at peace with the fact that i am a DICK.... i am good at it.... it is what i do.... it defines who i am.... will i be hated?? most definitely... do i care?? hell no...
"youve got enemies? good. that means you actully stood up for something" -Eminem
your welcome haha
is at peace with the fact that i am a DICK.... i am good at it.... it is what i do.... it defines who i am.... will i be hated?? most definitely... do i care?? hell no...
"youve got enemies? good. that means you actully stood up for something" -Eminem
Neck Injury
On top of his disinterest in laying big hits, Asante’s lingering “neck sprain”/stingers from last season really hindered his tackling. His technique was off and he looked scared when he knew he had to make a tackle. I spent all but 9 plays so frustrated with the guy last season, but those 9 plays more than make up for the rest.
Asante
Is certainly a good CB but he is being paid to be an elite CB (top #5) in the league and he simply wasn’t last year because of the issues with tackling and pass coverage. He was the worst CB in the league in tackling and generally below average in coverage. When you throw on him, he generally gave up a bunch of completions and yards.
I do think part it was the neck stinger that hampered him for the later 1/3 of the season. If Samuel plays like he did in 07/08, he is worth the money he is getting paid. INTs are certainly value but don’t get caught up in them either. ’08 version of Samuel was pretty superior to the ’09 version even if he had a couple of more INTs in ’09.
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