Eagles interested in Ray Edwards?
The Eagles are expected to make a push to acquire defensive end Ray Edwards, who had four sacks for the Vikings in the playoffs last season.
almost 2 years ago
greenbean#twoOH
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It would not surprise me if we try to sign him if we trade McNabb or Kolb, or we could try and work out another type of trade with the Viks where we won’t have to give up a first rounder.
mac 5 isnt going anywhere.
but ray edwards would be great. but its a gamble. did he juss have a hot streak in the playoffs or could it be the start of something special
by allmaddenking on Mar 12, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
I think in that scenario, the Eagles would deal McNabb to an AFC team (like the Browns at #38 or the Bills at #41), then surrenders the #25 for Edwards. The dropoff between #25 and #38 is not immense, given some of the positions the Eagles are looking at (LB, RB, DB, etc). In a best case scenario, the Eagles also receive additional picks for McNabb.
If they don’t deal McNabb they have other options to stay active in the market, such as dealing Sheldon Brown or managing their 2011 picks (which have spurious value in the wake of an impending lockout).
I just don’t feel that: a) Edwards is worth a 1st round pick, b) McNabb will net a first round pick. But how I feel is irrelevant.
WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
i had no clue he had a 1st round tender on him. STAY AWAY
by allmaddenking on Mar 12, 2010 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
i don't think i would want to
give up our #24 pick, albeit it kindof low for the first road, AND mcnabb, for edwards..
The Eagles WILL redeem themselves in the '10-'11 season, with a win at SuperBowl 45 in Dallas!
Edwards...
I agree. I would rather get a guy with experience rather than risk a crap shoot in the draft. Seems to be a lot of DL busts in the draft. I still have nightmares over Mike Mamula…
by 92-74-99-96 on Mar 12, 2010 5:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm lost this off season
From Westbrook being released…witherspoon gone basket comming back the QB situation this is MAD hopefully mr steak n cheese AKA Andy Reid n company can get this right do we can a a chamionship
by Jahsavi on Mar 12, 2010 7:46 AM EST via mobile reply actions
you can't be from Philly...
steak n cheese?
But agreed, weird offseason. I do however have faith that we somehow we fill the LDE and get some help Linebacker. I still believe in this FO. Don’t tell EvilBanner. Possitive outlook? I must not be from Philly.
Edwards is more worth a 1st round pick than you think
Do you guys realize how many busts there are at the DE position in the draft?
It’s historically one of the toughest positions to draft.
Sheil Kapadia did some research on it in one of his recent articles on Philly.com.
In that article he stated a few things:
* The average defensive lineman taken in the first round over the past five seasons had 2.69 sacks as a rookie. The average defensive end averaged 3.89 sacks. Note that we include guys described in that hybrid LB/DE role here.
* I also took a look at the top-10 sack leaders from 2009. Their average experience was 5.5 years in the league. And nine of them had three years of experience or more. The only exception (again) was Orakpo.
So what do we conclude here? The likelihood of the Eagles picking up a DE who can make an instant impact with the 24th pick is not high.
Now there are obviously some exceptions to players who become immediate impact players with high sack totals like Brian Orakpo and Clay Matthews (both OLB in 3-4), but the majority either take a few years to develop or more often than not, they don’t develop at all.
For every Julius Peppers and John Abraham, there are two more Jerome McDougles, Jamaal Andersons, Gaines Adams (RIP), and Erasmus James.
Now if you take a DE in the 1st round this year, there is a chance that you can hit it big and find the next Mario Williams (unlikely because he was a freak and taken 1st overall), but the chances are slim-to-none.
So having said that, if you have a chance to get an up-and-coming 25 year-old DE with 4 years of experience with your 24th pick then you do it.
It’s actually smarter than you think.
By the way… if it makes you feel any better, Edwards had 3.0 sacks and 1 forced fumble against the Cowboys last year in the Divisional Playoff game.
I don’t know about that logic. Yes the DE position is extremely difficult to guess in the 1st round. I don’t want them taking a DE in the first. But that means the elite DEs are coming from somewhere. They’re not just being traded around the league.
Look at Elvis Dumervil, a fourth round pick.
Aaron Kampman, a fifth round pick.
Jared Allen, a fourth round pick.
OR how about our own Trent Cole, a fifth round pick.
I understand why people would want to give up a first round pick for a proven talent in the league, but I consider giving up a 1st round pick for a DE to be almost as bad as drafting a DE with that pick. Who knows what that change of scenery will bring?
The Raiders traded a 1st round pick to get Richard Seymour from the Raiders. How did that work out for them? How did that work out for Seymour? He had a horrendous year.
Who says we're gonna take a DE in the first round?
I don’t see DE as a glaring need. We have much greater needs at S and LB and our first round pick can be used to addressed these positions. This year’s draft is too deep and too good for the FO to be giving up picks for RFAs.
by chrisbeomsuh on Mar 12, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
There are other positions to use our first round pick on… but the big caveat to my argument above is IF the Eagles feel strongly that they need to address the LDE position then grabbing Ray would be a smart idea.
They’re going to have to replace Juqua and Darren sooner than you think. They might have another year or two left, but the problem is when they are “done” then we don’t have anybody on the current roster who’s capable of filling that void.
Victor Abiamiri isn’t much more than a spot starter and rotational player, Chris Clemons didn’t do anything in 09, and Jason Babin will probably be gone.
Agreed
Although your argument down there is making Ray Edwards MUCH more tempting now.
by chrisbeomsuh on Mar 12, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
typo
Raiders traded to get Seymour from the PATRIOTS. Although yes the Raiders might be dumb enough to try trading with themselves.
Richard Seymour!?
Dude… you bring up Richard Seymour to support your opinion!?
He was 30 years old and in the last year of his contract when he was traded… Ray Edwards is 25 and we would lock him up long-term.
So I'll just
ignore your Richard Seymour comment…. that has no bearing on this situation. That was a joke of a trade by the Raiders.
But to address the mid-round DE’s you brought up… do you think it’s easier to draft a DE in the mid-rounds rather than the first? Because it’s not. It’s actually harder.
The fact of the matter is if the Eagles feel they need to upgrade or add to the LDE position then they are better off locking up a sure-thing in Ray Edwards rather than taking a gamble with ANY pick in the draft. Yes you might be able to use your 1st on another position, but then when you use your 2nd or 3rd or 4th… you’re even less likely to find a formidale DE that can make an impact… let alone in his rookie year.
I bring it up because just 5 days ago Eagles fans were ready to cut throats over not signing a 30 year old DE to the highest paid contract in NFL history. I’m just saying buyer beware.
That's exactly why
This signing of a 25 year old, improving player would be a smarter move.
Yes you’d have to give up your first, but then you lock him up at an affordable price right before he hits his prime.
Define “prime”. If you look at the other DEs I mentioned, the only one who has a similar career track is Kampman. The other ends showed immediate potential almost immediately after coming into the league, if not becoming a force by their 2nd seasons. Cole had 20.5 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, and 132 tackles in his 2nd and 3rd seasons. Edwards has 21.5 sacks in his entire career. He was nothing until Jared Allen got there. Those DEs I mentioned were basically the only pass rusher on their respective teams. Look at what Cole’s done practically by himself (with about a half of a game’s assistance provided by Kearse before his knees exploded).
Edwards just isn’t on the same tier, and I don’t see why that’s worth giving up a first rounder for. Need I remind people that the Panthers were asking for a first round pick for Peppers last year? You’re gonna put Edwards on the same platform as JULIUS PEPPERS? If you get into alternate compensation, I’m sure the Vikings would be happy to work something out, because whoever replaces Edwards in Minnesota is going to get just as many opportunities to pressure the QB and then he’ll be the new flavor of the month a year from now.
In case anyone was wondering
Here are some collected stats of those guys. I’ll throw in DeMarcus Ware just to establish both extremes.
2nd-3rd seasons
DeMarcus Ware – 25.5 sacks, 9 FF, 117 COMB, 1 INT, 1 TD
Trent Cole – 20.5 sacks, 5 FF, 132 COMB, 1 INT, 1 TD
Jared Allen – 18.5 sacks, 10 FF, 132 COMB, 1 INT
Elvis Dumervil – 17.5 sacks, 5 FF, 63 COMB, 1 INT
Ray Edwards – 10 sacks, 5 FF, 84 COMB, 0 INT
First 4 years
DeMarcus Ware – 53.5 sacks, 18 FF, 297 COMB, 1 INT, 1 TD
Jared Allen – 43 sacks, 13 FF, 227 COMB, 1 INT
Trent Cole – 34.5 sacks, 8 FF, 189 COMB, 1 INT, 1 TD
Elvis Dumervil – 43 sacks, 10 FF, 129 COMB, 1 INT
Ray Edwards – 21.5 sacks, 6 FF, 145 COMB
Also, it’s worth mentioning that Jared Allen, at the age of 25, having put up nearly double the production of Edwards, was traded for a 1st and two 3rds. If you really think the difference between Allen and Edwards is two thirds then by all means, campaign away.
by ZorkNemesis on Mar 12, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
You've named
About four DE’s that were slected in the mid rounds (3-5) who turned out to be studs…
Here’s a list of the other DE’s selected in rounds 3-5 in the last several years. You can be the judge on whether or not they turned out alright.
2004
Darrion Scott (Round 3)
Anthony Hargrove (3)
Reggie Torbor (4)
Shaun Phillips (4)
Bo Schobel (4)
Robert Geathers (4)
Dave Ball (5)
Antonio Smith(5)
Claude Harriott (5)
Roderick Green (5)
2005
Vincent Burns (3)
Chauncey Davis (4)
Chris Canty (4)
David McMillan (5)
Jonathan Welsh (5)
Jeb Huckeba (5)
2006
Frostee Rucker (3)
Jason Hatcher (3)
Victor Adeyanju (4)
Rob Ninkovich (5)
Parys Haralson (5)
Julian Jenkins (5)
Mark Anderson (5)
Brent Hawkins (5)
2007
Quentin Moses (3)
Charles Johnson (3)
Ray McDonald (3)
Brian Robison (4)
Jay Moore (4)
Baraka Atkins (4)
Joe Cohen (4)
Jay Richardson (5)
Greg Peterson(5)
2008
Kendall Langford (3)
Chris Ellis (3)
Bryan Smith (3)
Bruce Davis (3)
Cliff Avril (3)
Jeremy Thompson (4)
William Hayes (4)
Kenny Iwebema (4)
Kroy Biermann (5)
Marcus Howard (5)
2009
Michael Johnson (3)
Matt Shaghnessy (3)
Victor Butler (4)
Kyle Moore (4)
Brandon Williams (4)
Lawrence Sidbury (4)
Slade Norris (4)
I’m sure you’ll be able to find a couple solid starters or okay role players in that list, but before you try to do the research… there’s not a single Pro Bowler in that list.
Not one.
That’s because you intentionally left Justin Tuck off the list, but don’t let that stop ya.
Here’s a list of Pro Bowlers named Ray Edwards since 2004:
- ( )
And a list of Pro Bowlers taken in the first round:
- Mario Williams (#2 pick)
- Will Smith
- Brian Orakpo
That’s right, just 3. More Pro Bowlers have come out of the 3rd-5th rounds than the first.
by ZorkNemesis on Mar 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
You just reaffirmed my argument
That’s why giving up a 1st for a young, proven player is the smart thing to do.
By the way… my fault on Justin Tuck… I didn’t intentionally leave him off the list… I was thinking you mentioned him above, along with Cole, Kampman, Allen, Dumervil, etc.
Just let me know when you find a proven player and I’ll agree with you.
by ZorkNemesis on Mar 12, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
I'll repost what Team Serbia said:
Ray Edwards was ranked the 4th best DE in pass rush, and 11th overall DE, according to ProFootballFocus.
Ray Edwards: 9 Sacks, 22 QB Hits, 35 QB Pressure
Trent Cole: 14 sacks, 20 QB Hits, 31 QB Pressure
Julius Peppers: 10 Sacks, 10 QB Hits, 33 QB Pressure
Juqua Parker: 8 Sacks, 9 QB Hit, 21 QB Pressure
Sacks are a misleading stat. Parker is no where near Edwards.
I would call that proven.
Sometimes it takes awhile for someone to go buck wild in theier prime
How about derrick burgess.. he had a total of 6 sacks after 3 seasons and only had 2 big sacks in the playoffs….the very next year? 16 sacks.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I don’t know if he is worth a 1st rounder…. The Vikings D line is much better than the Eagles. Jared Allen and Trent Cole get about the same amount of attention but then with the Vikes you also have to worry about the big DT (WIlliams’) I think that 1st round tender is too much and also means that the vikings might match the offer too and if they don’t then the eagles are probably way over paying him like most people who are acquired in free agency…
I guess we look at it like this
We draft Carlos Dunlap or sign Edwards? This is a bad sign for us though, as it could signal a potential trade of Kolb.
In Kolb we trust
No
This wouldn’t have anything to do with Kolb being traded or not.
If you think about it. Ray would fit in with the general “age bracket” of our team if Kolb were the starter. Guys like Ray, Bradley, Kolb, Celek, Peters, Winston, Weaver, etc. would all be in their primes (age 25-30) at the same time to maximize the potential of the whole roster.
I am not a fan of this deal
I would prefer to just draft Taylor Mays, Edwards is young and good, but has the help of Jared Allen. Thats a lot of help, makes him look good. I prefer we stay away from this one.
In Kolb we trust
Here Edwards would have the help of Trent Cole, which is a lot of help also.
by 92-74-99-96 on Mar 12, 2010 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
stupid question, but..
how do you do bgn from mobile?
The Eagles WILL redeem themselves in the '10-'11 season, with a win at SuperBowl 45 in Dallas!
oh, okay..
i was wondering how it was going to work with texts. -thanks!
The Eagles WILL redeem themselves in the '10-'11 season, with a win at SuperBowl 45 in Dallas!
Earth to morons
Just bc he has a first round tender on him doesnt mean thast what he would cost to get him. We could offer the Vikings something less…like a player
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
haha
I would scream like a little girl if that happened. a declining player for a huge need in his prime. I would even do a 2nd rounder for Edwards..2nd or a 5th
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
NO 5th rounder this year...
We don’t have a 5th Rd this year…you mean a 2nd this year and a 5th next year?
Repost:
Ray Edwards was ranked the 4th best DE in pass rush, and 11th overall DE, according to ProFootballFocus.
Ray Edwards: 9 Sacks, 22 QB Hits, 35 QB Pressure
Trent Cole: 14 sacks, 20 QB Hits, 31 QB Pressure
Julius Peppers: 10 Sacks, 10 QB Hits, 33 QB Pressure
Juqua Parker: 8 Sacks, 9 QB Hit, 21 QB Pressure
Sacks are a misleading stat. Parker is no where near Edwards.
by Team Serbia on Mar 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes, these were just regular season stats
I figured they’d be the most fair
by Team Serbia on Mar 12, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
And another thing - Even if you're in love with Juqua Parker...
He turns 32 in May. He’ll need to be replaced soon anyway.
Yup
And you don’t have anybody on the roster that looks set to take his place when he’s “done.”
The only possibility would be Victor and he hasn’t shown us much yet.
my only concern
is about how much his production was affected by Jared Allen & the Williams Wall
though I’m sure this was already stated.
You're right
It has already been stated.
And it’s a valid argument…
but imo Cole, Bunkley, and Patterson aren’t too shabby either.
I’m just not buying he’s worth our first rounder … I won’t be convinced unless he comes here and get 13+ sacks.
He had a monster game against Dallas which makes me excited but I’m not buying he’s a first rounder upgrade over our line by committee.
Chris Clemons had a monster year for Oakland we went out and got him and he hasn’t done as much. This feels eerily similar only we didn’t give up a first rounder for Chris Clemons.
They call me The Professor.
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