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Sober Afterthoughts: I am Worried


Now that my euphoria has settled just a bit, I find myself deeply concerned about the ability of this Eagles team to get over the hump this season and allow Sunday's game to be the signature moment of a Championship season. After the jump I share my main concerns.

Star-divide

The Defense: This is the most obvious shortcoming of this team right now. The play from the secondary, and Patterson in particular was horrific. They allowed 4 Touchdowns to Eli Manning. As Jimmy noted on the game thread, the third down defense was terrible through the first three quarters. We continue to lose key players to injury. This defense is the worst red zone D in the NFL. At this stage I have no idea how the coaches are planning to address this, but there needs to be a pretty drastic improvement. The one positive building block at this stage is that we are very strong against the run, a hugely important asset come January.

 

The Michael Vick Gameplan: Firstly, I'd like to start off with the caveat that I find it just as hilarious as you guys when people say that defenses are "limiting" Vick when he scores 30 points in a game. However, at this stage it should be pretty obvious that defenses have figured out a way to contain Vick, at least in theory. When I look back at the Chicago game, the first Giants game and Sunday, there is a clear pattern (there may even be an argument for including the Texans game here). Defenses can slow Vick down. They do this by continually pressuring him. However, in each of the cases, the defense either let up by the fourth quarter (CHI and Sunday) or Shady simply takes over (first Giants game). Sunday can in some ways be seen as the closest a team has come to shutting Vick down, but it clearly only takes him 8 minutes to win a game. The point is that when we face truly championship caliber defenses (sorry CHI and NYG), we cannot expect this same kind of let-up during the fourth quarter. I do not expect teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots and even the Falcons or Saints to run out of steam by the fourth. There needs to be some kind of proactive plan B for when it becomes clear that Vick is facing too much pressure to succeed. Whether it be a heavy dose of screen passes or more rushing attempts, we need to be prepared to turn the situation favourably, instead of just relying on defenses to lapse in the fourth quarter.

 

In some ways, Sunday's game was a continuation of a disturbing trend of teams shutting down the offense while the defense gets torched. The way in which the game was won certainly provided positives as well, but we should not lose sight of the fact that the 2010 Eagles have some pretty glaring weaknesses. Now is the time to make adjustments so that these problems don't come back to bite us when playoff teams put their hands team on the field and their punters don't punt directly down the throat of the most dangerous weapon in the NFL.

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yeah ive been saying that...

Right now we’re not playing like a sb team. we can’t let people score on us like that and our O-line can’t continue to let blitzes come thru in 1.5 seconds..cant happen

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!

by Joe_D on Dec 21, 2010 6:35 AM EST reply actions  

Just read it

I guess your opinion about the O-line kind of ties in to my sentiment about Vick being under pressure so much. I agree about the Patriots, they were the one team I had in mind while writing this.

Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare.

by LeonSA on Dec 21, 2010 6:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Bears and Giants Def

are both better than Saints/Falcons

I don’t worry about putting up points on either of those teams, I worry about being able to stop them (well, not Atlanta…I don’t know why, but I’m just not worried about them) I worry about our defense stopping Drew Brees.

You’re absolutly right! Our offense is championship caliber, especially with a few tweaks to combat heavy pressure. But our defense is garbage! I give it to them that they clamped down yesterday at the same time our offense picked it up…but our secondary is terrible, and our front four rarely get pressure without a blitz

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 7:06 AM EST reply actions  

true.....

Our defense is pretty much shit, but i think this team reminds me alot of the 99 Rams who pretty much relied on their offense . As long as our defense can create turnovers and clamp down like they did in the 2nd half i will remain optimistic. And im so with u on the Brees thing, hes pretty much the only guy who i think i would be afraid of in the playoffs. Funny thing tho and i wonder wat the actual totals were for the game but it sure seemed like Eli didnt want nothing 2 do with Samuel, i wonder how many times he was targeted in that game, it couldnt have been for than a couple. Do u know????

by goldenbird09 on Dec 21, 2010 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I think its an extremely risky strategy to concede that the D is pretty much terrible for three quarters and then hoping they clamp down at the same time that the opposing D allows Vick to go to work. I just don’t see that working deep into the playoffs. These next two games provide an opportunity for final adjustments.

Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare.

by LeonSA on Dec 21, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not that worried about Atlanta either

Probably overly influenced by how well we played against them, without Vick no less. And I’d rather see the Bears than the Giants again. The Saints we’d be able to score on, but they’d be able to rack up points on us.

I agree with Leon’s overall theme that we’re not really a perfect team you can expect to dominate, and there’s a lot to worry about, especially with no Bradley/Allen/Graham on D. If Justice plays though, that seems to make a big difference on the OL, and this team for 6 weeks or so has seemed like one that will need to the offense to carry it while the defense is adequate.

It’s not like the Eagles are the Super Bowl favorites. But they do have an alluring magic about them that maybe makes us believe they can overcome all their wrongs.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

How much of the last 8 minutes on Sunday were the Giants D “letting up”, and how much was Vick just saying “F this, I am going to do what needs to be done”?

I will look for it tonight during the replay, but a good part of me feels that Vick holds back from running early on and tries too hard to stay within the passing confines of the offense as Marty and Big Red no doubt want. One or 2 of those 20 yard scampers early in the game will do wonders for those blitzes, and I get the feeling that, if he wanted to, he would have no problem ripping off a long run just about whenever he wanted.

by captain nodar on Dec 21, 2010 8:09 AM EST reply actions  

a good part of me feels that Vick holds back from running early on and tries too hard to stay within the passing confines of the offense as Marty and Big Red no doubt want. One or 2 of those 20 yard scampers early in the game will do wonders for those blitzes, and I get the feeling that, if he wanted to, he would have no problem ripping off a long run just about whenever he wanted.

This is exactly how I feel. Once Vick takes off a few times the D will be more reluctant to bring the blitz so much. Sometimes Vick needs to remind the defenses around the league of that. The Giants game provided a lot of proof.

by arson714 on Dec 21, 2010 8:23 AM EST reply actions  

most of his success

running against the Giants came right up the middle.

The Giants (with the exception of one 3rd down play) brought pressure around the outside knowing Vick liked to move out of the pocket…in the 4th Q he used it to his advantage and just ran right through the vacated middle

I’d like to see us beat that pressure without Vick’s legs though. I’d like a TE screen, or quick slant to back the Def up ALSO

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Id like to see a stat...

of how the Eagles Defense does when they have an X amount of minutes rest… they seem to do great when they actually get rest versus 3 and outs n picks. I has no time to do such workz :(

He hit him in a bad spot... the hands.

by DaaaBirdsDaBirds on Dec 21, 2010 8:31 AM EST reply actions  

Quite frankly,

the defense should only have to be mediocre 90% of the time for us to win football games. That’s what pisses me off so much. In my mind, mediocre is giving up 20 points consistantly, but we’re giving up 30 points consistantly. All this defense needs to do is give up less than what Vick and the Offense can put up. It really shouldn’t be that difficult.

He's slick, he's quick, he's Michael Vick.

by IwantVick on Dec 21, 2010 8:49 AM EST reply actions  

true

we’re scoring about 30/game. If we can hold teams to 20 or even 25ish, we’re good.

I just don’t trust us NOT to give up 30 also. We gave up a then season high points to the Bears

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, exactly

This is not a defensive stalwart. They have to be adequate and cause a few turnovers early, or get a defensive score, or play with a lead.

I did not really feel great about them coming back on the field once we tied at at 31, but they’re good in spurts and with the momentum.

This is one reason the bye is so important. If they were playing like the best overall team, I wouldn’t care that much if they had four games, but this seems like a team that would benefit more than usual from only having to play three

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Why are you worried?

If we can get the number 2 seed which is probable considering the bears schedule, we will be in the drivers seat. Im sure you all know Andy Rieds record after a bye week right? We just need to get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Im not scared of any teams in the NFC besides saints and giants.

You can muff a punt but can't punt a muff

by andyb on Dec 21, 2010 9:13 AM EST reply actions  

I’m worried because Andy’s record also indicates that we have never gotten over the hump. And I don’t just care about the NFC. I want to be able to beat whoever gets to the Superbowl from the AFC, probably the Patriots. And at this stage these problems will allow them to bury us.

Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare.

by LeonSA on Dec 21, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The patriots arent unbeatable

Greenbays backup QB almost beat them and put up close to 30 points. New England is a great team but they lack a lot on defense just like we do. I bet if Dimitri Patterson didnt let up 3 touchdowns last week you wouldn’t be so worried. Lets worry about getting to 12-4 right now instead of who we’ll play in the playoffs or superbowl.

You can muff a punt but can't punt a muff

by andyb on Dec 21, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

this.

if we can win the next two, I’m betting the Bears drop at least one to the Jets and Packers…that leaves us with the #2…that bye basically brings us to the NFCCG…and we’ll see from there

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a big if

Why does the festering ulcer in my gut tell me it’ll be Eagles vs. Giants in round 1?

"Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck." - Don Shula

by Bo Diddle on Dec 21, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

it shouldn't

the only way it’ll look like that is if we end up with the 3 seed, and the Giants end up with the 6. The Giants have to win this weekend to get that spot, and we have to keep pace with the Bears to go to the 3. I think the Giants are a draw with the Saints, so that could happen…but I think we realistically finish one game better than the Bears to finish

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Only in Philadelphia...

I don’t think we’re gonna win the Most Arrogant Fanbase Award or Most Confident Fanbase Award anytime soon. Our team is 10-4, locked up a playoff berth, and just beat one of our biggest rivals in the biggest way possible, but we’ve still had a handful of these nervous fanshots in the past few days. Look, i get it. There is cause for concern, but we’re a damn good team coming off of an insane win, let’s just enjoy it!

Bleeding Green Nation -- Home of the REAL Slim Shady
36-5-20-JJ Bleeding Green Forever

by DeSean10 on Dec 21, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I agree

Like I said, if Patterson didnt give up 3 touchdowns because he was playing like a 1 legged blind man, no one would be worried. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and plays smarter.

You can muff a punt but can't punt a muff

by andyb on Dec 21, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly that Nicks TD

he gave the man a 5 ft cushion, you cant in the redzone, so that’s one that he was right there to make the tackle on, anywhere else on the field and thats a good play, he’ll learn from that..

That Manningham one I dont even know, he just fucking bit on a pump fake or something.. Needs to stay with his man.

And on a few of Nick’s big plays it looked as if Patterson wasn’t trying to cut, he was rounding, the CB’s supposed to cut with the WR, that’s pure laziness which pissed me off.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The guy is a first year starter

Give a fuckin break. Hes done good enough up to this point.. He’s learning. He’ll get better.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I know.. Please read, it was constructive critizism,

I actually like Patterson alot, I’m just saying his mistakes were not due to lack of ability, it was lack of experience and a few plays when he was to lazy to plant his foot and really cut.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Sorry for the mini attack

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah it's fine lol..

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

and just beat one of our biggest rivals in the biggest way possible

I don’t know I think 44-6 was beating them in the biggest way possible. The comeback was Epic but honestly we should have put up 28 in the FIRST 7 minutes and 28 seconds not the last.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Dec 21, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

by ‘them’ I mean ‘one of our biggest rivals’ I’m well aware 44-6 was the Cowboys.

They call me The Professor.

by Whodie126 on Dec 21, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

that was the greatest 2 hrs of my life...

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

how about the worst 51:30 minutes an the best 8:30?

by IggleGreen on Dec 21, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah

thats about right.

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.-Oscar Wilde

Eagles all the way!

I would go to battle with these guys anytime-Michael Vick

by TricksterG on Dec 21, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm talking about the 44-6 game bud.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ohhhhhh.

That was about as nice a 60:00 as I’ve ever had, except for the time I had monkey sex with that hot Danish blonde on scuba!

by IggleGreen on Dec 21, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just saying it was awesome.

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Good thing is that the Giants pretty much have to win out to make it in,

and the Packers have to… And guess who the Bears play these next two weeks???

thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro

"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb

"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.

by wild_eagle on Dec 21, 2010 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

Giants win this week and they are in.

For some reason I do not want to see the Giants again. The revenge factor, the beating the same team three times in a year, etc. I just think that all of the pressure would be on us. Set up game.

Another reason to root for the Packers is that they will have something to play for the final week against the Bears.

Bottom line is that the Eagles can’t worry about this stuff. They have two winnable games at home and need to take care of business. Two seed is huge, and I think that it is quite possible that the Bears lose one of their remaining games.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

if we see the Giants it will be at home

I think we fare better at home…

but I really do think we finish one game better than the Bears for the #2 seed

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

big enough IF though

PAckers playing at home…in the cold …for a playoff spot….after almost pulling out a crazy victory with their #2 QB against the Pats will be tough tough to beat. I personally see a blow out by the Packers in this game. Eli just isnt playing good enough to not totally implode at this point.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that the Giants will show up and play hard

How can you not. Win and you are in. I am not saying that they will win, but they’ll give them a game.

But the real reason to root for the Packers is so they have something to play for against Chicago the next week.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

But the real reason to root for the Packers is so they have something to play for against Chicago the next week.

Haha while true, I never need a “reason” to root against the Giants :-)

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to expand on this

The Packers could beat the Giants, then lose to the Bears, and still get in. But that would mean that the Giants would have to lose to the Redskins. I wouldn’t want to have my playoff destiny riding on that. The Redskins are a mess.

I really think that the Packers need to win their last two.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You are correct

The thing with the Bear-Packers game, im not so sure the Bears will be going “all-out” for that game as its meaningless to them (other than beating a hated opponent). The bears play hard and will most likely like to rest their big impact players. I think (and hope) that the PAckers-Ginas game is the determinant factor game, but you are right in your analysis.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess it may not be meaningless

if they play for 2nd NFC seed…. Ya dunno…..lets just hope for the best scenario (ie Ginas dont make it :-))

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, it's for 2 seed

It’s huge. Look at us last year. Losing that game in Dallas the last week was the difference between having a week off and then a home game vs going right back to Dallas the next game. Huge.

Assuming that we beat the Vikings, the Bears must assume that we will beat the Cowboys. And if we win against the Vikings and the Bears lose to the Jets, we control our own destiny for 2 seed against the Cowboys.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

Bears have a tough ending…wow…

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I always thought the last 2 would be a problem for them

was not excited to Rodgers go down though.

Bears are a worthy opponent, certainly not an easy out. I think we can beat ’em though.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Giants

worry me, MRPH, just because we were fortunate to win both games. They’ve showed that even if we dominate them (first game) they can hang in there and take the lead, and that they’re capable of completely dominating us. So to me it’s less all this

The revenge factor, the beating the same team three times in a year, etc. I just think that all of the pressure would be on us. Set up game.

And more that they’ve played as well as any team has in a Vick start. They’re the only ones who figure us out and have the personnel to apply it.

The Falcons D and the Bears O I think would negate our defensive concerns, and the Saints don’t have a great D but Sean Payton scares me when he’s on. They could beat us 38-35.

I’d love to not see the Giants again. Then again if we did, and we won a third time … how sweet it would be. (see last year, Dallas vs. us)

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I kind of meant that, too

The fact that they played us tough and were actually leading us in the second half of both games is certainly a part of it.

But really I think that the conference is up for grabs. Except for the team coming out of the West, I wouldn’t be surprised if any team advanced the the Super Bowl I think that the Eagles can beat any of these teams, but can also lose to any of them if they are not on their game. They just need to get into the playoffs playing well, and once they get there they need to start fast. Waiting until the 4th quarter to score your points is playing with fire.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

the secondary is terrible

but the problem is too is that we are not blitzing enough at all……. jim johnson was the guy who known for the blitz and latley this team gets no pressure up front………. even when they do blitz the qb still gets a ton of time…….. on average tho when they rush for the qb has like 6 seconds in the pocket which is WAY too much time…… when u have all that time in the pocket ANY qb will complete a pass cuz eventually someone is going to get open………. im even really suprized at how quiet trent cole has been …. yes yes i kno hes double teamed alot of the time but that doesnt stop other D ends from performing who have talent

by thegreatginzo on Dec 21, 2010 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

I dont like the blitz

Well as far as living and dying on it at least. McD thought on our D is the front four needs to be hitting home on there own w/o blitz. Elaborate coverage, minumal blitz (thats what i think in his defense at least). I never really sat well with JJs (RIP) Blitz when we get to the playoffs. All year we would hold teams to 14-17 points a game then run into a good coach/ offense that somehow shreds us for 21+. After all if we have a strong suit on D, shouldn’t it be the D line?

by eagle1087 on Dec 21, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

*Wouldn’t it be….

by eagle1087 on Dec 21, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

our problem is the secondary

the main difference i see with this defense vs. our JJ defenses of the past is our secondary. JJ could afford to blitz and leave our corners with one on one coverages on the outside. we had the troy vincents and bobby taylors. the lito sheppards and the sheldon browns.

Asante is a great corner, but we watch it every week…opposing quarterbacks targeting their second and third recievers play after play for big gains. I think we need to continue to blitz, have our corners in press coverage and bring our safefties in a bit closer to help on the intermediate routes. Sure we may get beat deep a few times, but we need to eliminate the 10 yard routes that opposing teams are killing us on.

by DeSeanN on Dec 21, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

one last thought...

how nice would it be to have sheldon brown this year. I think that was our FO biggest mistake of the offseason.

by DeSeanN on Dec 21, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Sheldon Brown is not have a good year but any means.

by Team Serbia on Dec 21, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup Brown left

just in time….just like #5 …and as much as it pains me to say…just as #36

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yeaaa but having sheldon would be great for cb depth right now lol

yeaaa eagle1087 there is always a huge risk when u blitz, but in our case i think we have to because the front 4 have no been doing a great job at pressing the quarter back………. im not saying they have been playiing horrible, but they are forcing the bad throws and hitting the qb after the play………… to be honest tho i dont even know if blitzing would be worth it because on a few blitzes ive seen espeically in the last game the o line picked up very well leaving the shitty secondary even more vunerable for a huge play

by thegreatginzo on Dec 21, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I get that

on the other hand they wouldnt of gotten Lindley and Sapp if it wasnt for that trade. Now looking back now, when now knowing (somewhat) what they have in Lindley and Sapp may be seen as a bad trade, but I think its still too early to tell….their present + future value may be more than Sheldon/Gocong’s current value/future (lack there of )

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

There needs to be some kind of proactive plan B for when it becomes clear that Vick is facing too much pressure to succeed.

In two of our more challenging games (Cowboys and Giants), that plan B was LeSean McCoy breaking out long runs in the 4th quarter. Maybe getting him involved a little earlier will benefit us in those games where Vick is clearly getting too many pass rushers in his face. Aside from Vick breaking off a long run, I think a LeSean McCoy screen pass is one of the more feared threats to opposing defenses.

"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums

by southjersey89 on Dec 21, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately for us.....Wont run enough

It wont happen. Correct me if I’m wrong but Vick faced a lot of outside pressure when the blitz came. A run up the guts would be the perfect call against that kind of pressure. With guys like McCoy and Harrison that should be childs play not to metion our run block dwarfs our pass block for the most part. Am I making sense? ( I’m really asking)

by eagle1087 on Dec 21, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Makes sense to me. I’d take a few more runs up the gut too, trust me haha. I just went with the screen pass because I like how much they unsettle opposing defenses, especially coming from Shady.

"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums

by southjersey89 on Dec 21, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

for what it's worth
[Teams stop Vick] by continually pressuring him.

That’s true of literally every quarterback in the NFL. Sure, some quarterbacks deal with pressure more effectively than others, but you won’t find a single QB who does better when he’s being pressured than when he has all the time in the world.

It comes down to blocking and the short-yardage game. Part of our issue this past game was we shat the bed in the short-yardage game until Vick took over.

Typically the way our offense works is we set up the deep play early to open up short yard plays underneath, which prevents opponents from blitzing too often. However, what happens when we can’t get that big play early is defenses drop one safety back and then they cover the short routes while getting 5 to 6 man rushes most downs because they don’t have to worry about getting beat deep.

Andy Reid has one of the best first-15-play scripts in the NFL. However, it breaks down when the bad guys get to Vick early. So, a formula defenses that are successful against us have used is to rush up the middle on our first and second touches.

We’ve tried countering that by running bootleg play actions, but it’s kind of an obvious call at this point. The adjustment needs to be simply picking up those early blitzes, because DeSean or Maclin will definitely be able to get open eventually, especially on those go routes where they’re just tasked with beating a defender deep. I think we’ll probably see more max protect early in the game to give us a better chance at setting up the deep ball, because once we’ve set that up the under routes all open up, and Vick can get to his checkdowns more easily, McCoy can gash for five yards more easily, and in general we get to our west coast offense roots. I think our major weakness is that because of Vick’s height and perhaps unideal accuracy on short-to-mid slant routes, we need a deep ball to open up the rest of the passing game.

by Alon on Dec 21, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

addendum

The left side of our line is typically rock solid. McGlynn/Jean-Gilles/Dunlap, however, are susceptible to getting buttfucked on bull and speed rushes. We use McCoy & Celek to help, but really our best hope is that the return of Justice will shore up the rest of the line so that McGlynn & Jean-Gilles can double team a DT and Justice/Celek/McCoy can pick up rushers 3-5. We’ve gotten solid protection this season, but never with Dunlap in there. McGlynn & Jean-Gilles simply need help on their blocks against better d-lines (which is what you saw vs. Chicago & Giants), and when Dunlap is in there, he needs help too — it’s too many guys that can’t handle a block by themselves.

by Alon on Dec 21, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yup

Justice coming back will be huge!

And I never noticed how much Vick’s height was a factor until this game. He’s not alone in it, Drew Brees is a short guy too…but the quick screens and check downs are tough for a 6’ guy with 6 HUGE defensive lineman in his face

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Good solid analysis

’scuse my french, but I love this shit.

Not just whats, but the hows and whys. More please.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

on a positive note, i like the way our d shut the giants down in the 4th quarter. however, mcd needs to change things up on our 3rd down and redzone defense schemes…

losses of bradley, graham and allen certainly hurts us especially depth wise but if we can get anything out of burgess and chaneycoleman continue to improve, we should be ok going into the playoffs.

once we’re in and get a first week bye, then anything can happen…

i’m hoping for a superbowl rematch against the patriots in jerry jones’ backyard where we run the ball 50 times, with mccoy/vick/harrison combo running for 300 yds and beating mr. bundchen.

by ringordietryin on Dec 21, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions  

Beating the Patriots on Dallas's field ...

… would allow a lot of us to die happy men. Or Eaglesgrls.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

dont worry! this team knows how to win, they find ways to get it done! thats all that matters

by eaglesinmd on Dec 21, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions  

WHO CARES

Winning is winning. No team is perfect. You mentionned the Pats up there. They have a 28th ranked Defense. Worst than the Eagles 13th ranked Defense. So why isnt everyone worried about the Patriots? Because they find ways to win, just like the Eagles. I understand that you may want to see better performance from certain players or certain units, but at the end of the day WINNING the game is WINNING the game, regardless of how you do it. Enjoy the good times man.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

i agree but...

i can relate to leon’s concern. the patriots get a pass b/c they have 3 rings already and they’ve proven that they could go all the way even with a mediocre defense. i think once the eagles have at least one, we’ll all feel a bit more optimistic.

then again, we could be cleveland fans right? there’s always a silver lining…

by ringordietryin on Dec 21, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

There will always be room for concern

with this team because of the history. And thats fine. But I dont think that we should continue to have pessismistic views regardless of whats going on. Most of you will NEVER BE SATISFIED. The Eagles could win a SB and you would still find something negative to say. Teams arent perfect man and they will never be. Just look at the 2008 Patriots. They went what, 18-0 but lost the big one? Who out there did not think that team was perfect? And look what they did, they LOST the most important one. So again, until the Eagles win every game of a season, and wins the SB, we have no right to think that this team HAS to be perfect. You can have concerns all you want. The fact of the matter is, there will ALWAYS be concern because no teams are perfect.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The difference between the Eagles and the Patriots is that the Patriots have won a superbowl (or a few) not too long ago. A win is just another bump in the road during the chase for another trophy.

To a lot of Eagles fans, winning isn’t good enough. They’re already thinking two steps ahead to figure out if this team is good enough to win the big game. Historically, winning has not been our problem, just look at Andy Reid’s success during his tenure. Our problem has been winning the bigger games in the playoffs/superbowl. That’s why some people are already concerned.

"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums

by southjersey89 on Dec 21, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

You make a valid point, but I personally am not looking for perfection or anything close to it. Perfection would be me complaining that our defense isn’t playing like the 85 Bears.

Instead, it would be nice if our defense wasn’t the worst red zone defense in the NFL for example. That’s something that’s a reasonable concern going into the playoffs.

"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums

by southjersey89 on Dec 21, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I can agree with that

My rant was more inflicted towards some people out there who never feel satisfied regardless of what this team does. I have concerns as the next guy. I just try to not think about them and have hope (like I do every year because im a fan) that this year will be the year.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

or that 3rd and longs

are guaranteed completions (or penalties on us)…don’t think it’s too much to ask that we shut down a 3rd and long once in a while

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

those are the 2 biggest things to fix right now

in my opinion. Penalties and 3rd down Defense. If they can fix or slightly improve this, they will give the team a legitimate shot at a SB run.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Red Zone Defense

We give up way too many TD’s. It’s getting to the point that I almost expect the other team to score when they get down close.

If we just gave up a bunch of field goals, with our offense we’d be golden.

Go Eagles!

by MRPH on Dec 21, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeh for sure

but lots of 3rd down conversions and penalties are putting teams in red zone position ….so they do go hand in hand…

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

It hurts being “good enough to get there team” especially since we been so close for so long. I been a birds fan since around the time Rodney Peete hurt his knee (I’m too young to say Randalls day). Its was ok just wanting to win back then, but for last decade we upgraded to win when counts to SB “potential” every year. The word potential is like being pretty on the inside to me….

by eagle1087 on Dec 21, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what being a fan is all about

And I agree, the hurting and disappointment hurts year in and year out…but…just think of how good it WILL feel once the Eagles finally win the big one…. Hope is all we have as fans, and im just going to keep feeling optimistic about it as long as I am a fan of the game.

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Its just that

for years we have been able to win and be good enough to get to the playoffs. However, every year we identify problems during the regular season. They may not immediately end our season, but you can bet that problems in the redzone, inaccurate passing, lack of an effective running game etc eventually caught up with us. I think we all know what the problems are this year. Based on the recent past, my concern is that we will once again be tripped up by obvious problems that we are unable to address in time. We’ve been down this road before, almost every season.

Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare.

by LeonSA on Dec 21, 2010 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

And I agree with that...

And while that is true (year in and year out), the faithfuls out there will tell you that the coming of the new Eagle named Saint Vick might have something to say about prior history :-)

FLY #7 FLY !!!

by BWestFactor on Dec 21, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Get some friends from Boston
Winning is winning. No team is perfect. You mentionned the Pats up there. They have a 28th ranked Defense. Worst than the Eagles 13th ranked Defense. So why isnt everyone worried about the Patriots?

They sound just like us. I swear to you.

Part of having a team that’s good year after year is your expectations are raised, you know good football when you see it, and likewise, when you don’t.

Also when there’s roughly 8 teams who look like they could get hot and win the SB, angst is natural even for the favorites.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

We NEED to win this year

so i can finally have a reason to subscribe to sports illustrated for their “congratulations (blank) fans your team is superbowl champions package” do not insert blank for fear of jynx

He hit him in a bad spot... the hands.

by DaaaBirdsDaBirds on Dec 21, 2010 12:18 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Why panic now?

The D does not concern me as much as it does to you. I look at the Saints D last year n they were not the best in any form besides takeaways, and we sure can do that. We also have better players on our D than Saints did last year when they won it all. Defenses are sending more guys after Vick, he just needs to do what he did Sunday soon as u see them coming take off, bc nobody on any D can stop him in the open field. Coleman and Chaney will be fine by now they are not rookies anymore. This is not the time to make adjustments either.

by EAGLES4LIFE on Dec 21, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

there HAS to be an open guy running around

when the defense is rushing 7…

I loved what Vick did, but I want us to have more ways than just the awesomeness of VIck to beat a heavy blitz.

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s up to the coaching. They’ve been slow to adjust all year, I don’t see it changing.

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the media ramming the Miracle at the New Meadowlands down your throat for the rest of your life...BAHAHAHAHA....

by begforme4484 on Dec 21, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree on adjustments

This IS the time to make adjustments.

In the NFL, it always is. No two gameplans are the same.

But even more so when you have new players taking on bigger roles this late in the season, your last regular season games are a great time to adjust (or play things close to the vest and bust out your adjustments by surprise)

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

To all Eagles fan who seem worried about the Giants for a 3rd time

I have said it all year, you guys own the Giants, and my team can not beat yours. Why you get so nervous about the NYG I have no idea. Hell, they had two separate 21 point leads and blew that, so the Eagles just plum have their number, simple as that.

by brisulph on Dec 21, 2010 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

true, but not true

last year, the Cowboys had our #…we never had a chance in those last two games. We looked bad, they looked good, we didn’t matchup well, there wasn’t a chance from the beginning to the end, and I never thought we would win.

I hoped. I hoped we’d squeak something out, but I knew the chances were terrible.

You guys have had fourth quarter leads in both games. These were both games that came to the very end…we’ve won both, but you can understand if we don’t feel comfortable in a third game when the first two were so hard

"EFF YOU, WE'RE WINNING ANYWAY!!!!!!" (Bye, Dawk)

by jalarsen1 on Dec 21, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice "you probably got us beat" jinx ...

… but we know if we see you again, it’s not going to be an easy W. Eagles earned both wins, but they were fortunate as well.

Trailed in the 4th of both games; in other words, if one play hadn’t happened exactly the way it did, either of those games could’ve been a loss.

That to me is the mark of a tough game.

Secretary of State for BGN aka "Most diplomatic man on this site," as appointed by Talon Talent
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Dec 21, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

'Trailed in the 4th of both games; in other words, if one play hadn’t happened exactly the way it did, either of those games could’ve been a loss"

As a Giants fan I’ll say that was true on Sunday. Hell if the Giants put their hands team in they probabbly pull it out but the game in Philly this year the Eagles were the better team for the majority of the Game. Giants played hard that night and it was close. At this point I don’t think the Giants are ever beating the Eagles. After what I saw on Sunday I would’nt be surprised if Steve Van Bueran came back and rush for 250 if we played a third time.

I will admit though I understand your feelings. In 08 I was so pissed when TB collapsed and lost to OAK and then the Eagles killed Dallas. The Eagles were the last team I wanted the Giants to play that year. I still think the Giants get to that SB in 2008 if TB just beats Oakland. We’ll see what happens but I’ll be shocked if the Giants win this week. They’ll play hard but there is no way there is not some lingering effect from this weeks game. This feels just like the playoff loss in 08. I’m still not over it. Maybe the G-Men get some revenage this year but I doubt it. Ever since SB 42 things have fallen apart for the Giants. I think we made a deal with the devil for that title.

by Landeta on Dec 21, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

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