The State of the Kick Return Position
by Bob_Q on Nov 23, 2010 9:00 PM EST
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintNow that Ellis Hobbs is officially on IR with a neck injury, the Eagles are left with a hole at not only the cornerback position, but at kick returner as well. Dimitri Patterson has filled in quite nicely at Hobbs' old right cornerback slot, but the KR duties remain somewhat of a question mark. Here's a quick look at the options the Eagles currently have on their roster (in alphabetical order).
Jason Avant: Bobby April experimented with putting in Avant on returns during training camp, but never moved to the next step. Avant dabbled with return duties in college, but has only one NFL return under his belt - a little 13-yard squeaker back in 2008.
Eldra Buckley: Buckley's entire professional kick returning experience is exactly what we saw Sunday night. One return for 20 yards.
Jorrick Calvin: The Eagles brought Calvin in during training camp as a return specialist and he has run back 13 kicks so far this season, producing a respectable average of 22.1 yards per return. However, his costly fumble on a punt return against the Titans has left many with a sour taste in their mouths.
More options after the jump...
Chad Hall: The minuscule Hall was less than impressive when performing return duties this preseason, but did rack up a 22.5 yard average off of 23 returns in college (no fumbles).
Rod Harper: Currently serving on the Eagles practice squad as a wide receiver, Harper saw limited KR action in his years at Murray State, racking up 100 yards on 5 returns in 2005.
Jerome Harrison: The Eagles have reportedly performed some practices recently with Harrison rotating in at KR. No one doubts the fifth-year pro's open field speed, but his professional return duties have been limited. During his years with the Cleveland Browns, Harrison saw action on only 7 kickoffs, averaging a measly 12.4 yards per return.
DeSean Jackson: Although Jackson is a prolific punt returner, he has only seen action on two kickoffs during his time as an Eagle. With his #1 receiver status and occasional PR duties, though, it's impossible to see him being an option except in the most dire of situations.
Jeremy Maclin: Although Maclin has a bit more professional KR experience than DeSean Jackson, the reasoning remains the same. Why risk your starting wide receiver when there are other options on the roster?
Jamar Wall: Currently on the practice squad as a cornerback, Wall averaged 22.5 yards per return on 22 kickoffs during his time at Texas Tech.
Jeremy Williams: A wide receiver on the practice squad, Williams participated in 29 kick returns during his tenure at Tulane. He averaged an impressive 24.2 yards per return (29 kickoffs) and one touchdown.
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Jerome Harrison
He had 4 returns last year and averaged 8.0 yards a return. That’s atrocious. I change my vote to Calvin.
Those numbers are from this year. And I don’t think he’s as bad as those numbers. Here’s his KR experience from the last two years:
2009:
vs Cincy, he fielded a kick at the 17 and returned it to the 33.
vs Oakland, he fielded a kick at the 25 and had no return, and he fielded a kick at the 4 and returned it to the 43.
2010:
vs KC, he fielded a kick at the 27 and returned it to the 34, and he fielded a kick at the 16 and returned it to the 26.
vs Atlanta, he fielded a kick at the 15 and returned it to the 24, and he fielded a kick at the 17 and returned it to the 23.
Looks to me like he was Cribbs’ up-back/blocker and didn’t get a lot of yardage because he was fielding squibs or bloops at the 15-27 yard line. The one time he got one deep, he had a big return. So not a lot of experience, but no bad results, IMO.
by Eric T. on Nov 23, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this is a good point...
but we’re all forgetting the fact that he’s small and quick… and runs with the power RB’s possess over WR’s, I think he could be a damn good returner, and at minimum pick up 10 yards and not fumble.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
And to add to this...
Harrison has already hit “home runs” a few times in his career already. I know that there is a difference between running as a back and as a returner, but lets be real here, instincts are instincts and vision is vision. I would put him or give Chad Hall a chance even though he hasnt showed much yet, I just love this guy’s drive, he has this “Rudy” story feel to him. Calvin, to be honest hasnt impressed me ONE BIT. He had one big return that I can think of, and that was only because a massive hole opened in front of him that even King Dunlap could have hit and gained 40 yards. Every time that guy fetches a punt or return I get nervous man, you just have this feeling that the ball will pop out at anytime..
FLY #7 FLY !!!
by BWestFactor on Nov 24, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Well I think RB's read holes alot better, they can hit the holes with authority and they have the speed to outrun peopl
and the size/strength to break the tackles if needed.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
This is not a hard choice, you have to go with experience. Week 12 is not the time to try someone with no NFL KR experience. Fumbles or not, Calvin should be the front runner, period. Perhaps an argument can be made for Hall, but there is no way at this point in the season we should even consider inserting a player who has not returned kickoffs since college, unless in an emergency situation.
dunno if I agree
I’d want Chad Hall in… yea it’s week 12 but what happens if Calvin keeps effing up and they realize they’ve made a mistake… now its way too late to throw Hall in. I’d give him a couple weeks to see how he does…. he seems like a reliable kid and for some reason I trust him
Enter the Vicksperience.
Harrison
Has to be. He has the experience. The Eagles still don’t run enough to really have to worry about injury to Harrison.
Put him out there.
the fact that
avant is even being considered is just silly in my opinion…… hes a great possesion receiver, but hes slow as shit
seems to me avant is moving a lot faster this year
McNabb + votes = Honolulu = 3rd rounder, Lets get em Tiger!
draft pick awareness week starts week 8 with voting mcnabb into the probowl
project donolulu-JimmyK
he showed up to camp in the worst shape of his career
jus sayin….. lol
by thegreatginzo on Nov 23, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
it might have been good for him lol
McNabb + votes = Honolulu = 3rd rounder, Lets get em Tiger!
draft pick awareness week starts week 8 with voting mcnabb into the probowl
project donolulu-JimmyK
The Best Solution is... (reposted from the Hobbs/Dunlap thread)
Let the damn kicks bounce into the endzone . We barely get the ball past the 20 anyway… I don’t know where to look this up, but I’d be surprised if our average starting field position on kickoffs is beyond the 23. We’ve had no big kickoff returns (and only one big punt return). I think we started the past two games inside the 15…
Why bother risking devastating turnovers and injuries just to get a few extra yards that we often don’t get. The fumbled kickoff against NO last year was huge. Calvin’s fumble against the skins nearly let them back into the game and his fumble vs. TEN derailed a comeback attempt (yea that was a PR but it still shows the risk of using him in KR’s). Also, we’ve lost our KR to injury the past two years who also happened to be a starter at a more important position, cornerback… So why bother?
The Eagles are 2nd in offense and 9th in D (and both have been even better lately)… Our return game has sucked. We don’t need special teams to win us games… we just can’t afford to have them be a liability. For us, the risk outweighs the reward. I’m shocked that teams never seem to consider taking touchbacks in times when they’re nursing a big lead or when their KR game has struggled badly.
A solid 20.4 yards per return. Good for T26th.
But despite that poor performance, taking the ball at the 20 is a terrible answer. Here’s how they’ve done so far this year:
Starting position: 28, 26, 23, 40, 32 // 30, 22, 26, 20, 20 // 44, 6 // 28, 17, 26, 25 // 25, 37, 20, 36, 20 // 6*, 36, 20, 44 // 20, 25, 45, 20, 20, 20, 20 // 28, 32, 30, 20 // 9, 19, 18, 30, 20 // 13, 14, 33, 40
So what do we have? Eight times they were inside the 20. One of those was the next-to-last play of the half, where they had no real return of a squib kick. Three were at the 19, 18, and 17. And four times out of 44 they’ve been really backed up. You really want to give up yardage on every kick to prevent starting inside your 15 less than 10% of the time?
I still think we should take more touchbacks...
Thanks for posting the numbers. The average starting field position wasn’t as bad as I thought, but I realize I should’ve qualified/moderated what I said originally. Basically, from my recent memory (which is limited and potentially wrong), it’s the long hang time kicks returned from the endzone that seem to go nowhere, often barely get past the 20, if at all.
It seems many of our good starts came from short kicks and whiffed out of bounds kicks (which is probably where the 40’s came from). Akers had some short kicks Sunday that gave NYG good field position.
So indeed, I agree starting beyond the 30 is way better than starting at the 20, and we shouldn’t forfeit all kicks, but I do think it’d be advantageous, based on the performance of the return team this season and the risk of Calvin fumbling, that they only return kicks that land outside the endzone. One would have to check where the endzone returns got to on average to see if this argument is legit.
No brainer
Calvin even if he does look like he is trying to purposefully running into the opposing team at times.
Calvin.
Calvin is fast and has a nice burst but he just isn’t aware of his surroundings, he wants to return it no matter what. But really to me Calvin is just a faster version of Macho Harris on kick returns, Macho Harris would run into defenders all the time (Broncos game) and Jorrick Calvin does the same.
Calvin.
Seriously- a fumble or two, and he’s now the worst player on our team?
by LegendKnight22 on Nov 23, 2010 10:04 PM EST reply actions
Definitely Calvin, I’ve liked his burst, and one fumbled punt is one less than we had in that awful season opener in 2007.
by youaretheman26 on Nov 23, 2010 10:31 PM EST reply actions
Calvin until he fumbles one more time, then fire him. Giving up the ball on a kick return is unacceptable. Harrison is explosive and if he gets hurt it’s not that big a deal, Shady’s still the MAN at rb in Philly and he will continue to bloom into Westbrook 2.0. Avant is out of the question, he really is extremely important to the Eagles offense, especially under Vick, and he’s not fast enough to be great at returns so why risk him.
Fly Eagles Fly, on the road to Vicktory!
as a Saints fan, I want to tell you guys that in Rod Harper you have a diamond in the rough
but I hope your organization never gives hime the time of day. My hope was that he would stay on our active roster or ps til next year. But, he can be a playmaker. He won’t beat out Jackson or Macklin at WR,but he’s good at that position. I would say he has more potential than Avant in the long run. He should get some attention- he’s got some significant talent. Please keep this to yourselves (lol)
If Pro is the opposite of Con, what is the opposite of Progress? Congress!
-Men's Restroom - House of Representatives, Washington, DC
He won’t get the time of day. The Eagles are so stacked at receiver its ridiculous. DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin are already one of the best receiving duos in the NFL and they’re only 23 and 22. Jason Avant is Mr. Reliable (except for last week) and isn’t going anywhere, all he does is produce solid numbers when DeSean gets hurt and make clutch grabs in the slot. Behind Avant is Riley Cooper who looks like a stud for a rookie, he is a big, tall, physical downfield threat, he had an amazing training camp with Vick throwing the ball up to him. And THEN there is Chad Hall (ehh gadget guy), Jeremy Williams (stud at Tulane, Jason Avant sort of receiver) and Rod Harper. So stacked, the Eagles have a top 4 that is set for a couple years.
by d-jackfan10 on Nov 23, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
How is that lil' shit winning the vote
Tons of reasons to start Harrison or Calvin at KR but why would we want to put the ball in Chad Hall’s hands this late in the season? He absolutely down right FAILED at returning punts and kickoffs in preseason.
Saw Jeremy Bloom
doing work for Versus Network the other day. That brought back memories. Most of them were bad.
Chad....
Chads got the speed , but not the hands. God knows 2007 was a complete disaster back there. We even tried LJ Smith back then! Calvin is the best option this deep in the season. I better not see Desean back there!!!!
Expect Greatness
by Dunta Is A PUNK on Nov 23, 2010 11:49 PM EST reply actions
AGREED. DJAX BETTER NOT
I REALLY HOPE "K"EVIN "K"OLB'S MIDDLE NAME DOESN'T START WITH A "K" TOO,THAT WOULD BE SCARY...
I say no unless we have to get a good return.. Like we're down by 3 in the 4th quarter with like 6 minutes to go...
That’d be ok with me because I know that a tiny crack with him and he’d get us to the 40 easily…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
Westy....
Westy used to take an occassional kickoff when we were down late. And if memory serves me right, he always made it payoff with a decent return. 10 aint built like Westy tho.
Expect Greatness
by Dunta Is A PUNK on Nov 24, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Im surprised no one has said maclin.
He was a beast in college
Boomer Motha F****** Sooner
Maclin
Hes too important to risk on returns. Calvin is the returner,or we’re asking for trouble.
Expect Greatness
by Dunta Is A PUNK on Nov 24, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
i read this blog a lot
But who the hell are Rod Harper, Jamar Wall, and Jeremy Williams?
Last name Ever
First name Greatest
by Djax10 on Nov 24, 2010 6:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Calvin please
its 2 fold…returns kicks and is depth at a depleted CB position.
Why Hall? He hasn’t done anything at KR (got a shit ton of tries during the preseason) and will never get the ball thrown to him…Cooper and Schmitt rarely get the Ball thrown to them.
by birdsfaninsc on Nov 24, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Schmitt has actually been pretty active in the passing game for a FB
In 9 games, he has 16 receptions for 126 yards. Compare that to Leonard Weaver last year over 16 games: 15 receptions for 140 yards and 2 TDs.
"you are bobQ aka the dark horse !"
-NorthPhillyKid
Riley Cooper
Why not him. He’s big and strong with great hands. I’m sure he’s somewhat fast
by Dnabb05 on Nov 24, 2010 9:02 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Anyone but Calvin
He ended the Titans game by fumbling. Fumbled in the Redskins. Calvin sucks!
He is a huge weak link. Jerome Harrison!!!
....Is on the Vick Bus, which oddly enough looks like a dog catchers truck!
by SpursEaglesFanSanAntonio on Nov 24, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions
gay
fuck it
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
"I'm trading Kolb to Buffalo for Cribbs"- the brilliant Trade Kolb
"Please notice the difference and proceed to suck your own tiny ass cock. Secondly, A simulator shows how things COULD go, not WOULD.. Once again bend in half and do the deed.." From me.. To CNCITINFO.
Jeremy Williams
He was a top rated receiver coming into the draft, he has good speed, and probably didn’t stick to a roster because of his inability to understand offenses, give him a chance and harrison and we should be gold
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