Offseason primer - On rumors and speculation
by JasonB on Jan 28, 2010 12:00 PM EST
in Philadelphia Eagles News
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PrintOver the next few months we're going to hear a lot of rumors and a lot of speculation... before it all starts to get too crazy, I thought it was important to make a distinction between the two and set some rules about how we'll report this stuff.
A rumor or report is when a reporter tells you that sources close to a team or a player have told them something. When a reporter or analyst simply tells what they think could be a good fit or what they think a team might do based on need or previous performance... that's speculation. Speculation is fine, we do it all the time and I'll certainly link to it if I see some... but it's important to know the difference when we read it.
Case in point... This latest John Clayton story about a possible trade of Donovan McNabb. Here is what he said on ESPN's "Mike & Mike" show
If Favre does not return, "then I think move number one is going to be looking at Donovan McNabb," Clayton said. "Now I think the question is do you give up a first round pick, which I think is unlikely. I think what you try to do is find a way to get him for a second round pick."
"Two things have to happen and that would have to be the retirements," Clayton said. "If (Favre) and Kurt Warner are going to be retired, then there are going to be two possible trade outlets. If let's say both decide to come back, then I don't see another team - maybe Carolina could do it - but there's only going to be three of four options at most for a McNabb trade and if you can't get trade value, you can't release McNabb. Right now, I think his future in Philly is dependent on retirements."
Quite clearly that's speculation. At no point does he claim to have inside info nor does he claim this is a report based on anything he's heard. It's just a veteran NFL reporter saying what he thinks might happen. Is he trying to be a bit salacious and pique the interest of Eagles fans? Sure... but there's no dishonesty or anything here. The dishonesty comes when certain media outlets misrepresent his words.
Some media outlets, including even NBC sports labeled this a "rumor" and twisted his words to make it look like he was doing more than simply speculation.They titled the story "Report: Vikes to pursue McNabb if Favre walks"
According to ESPN's John Clayton, the Vikings will "make a play" for Donovan McNabb if Brett Favre retires.
Again, if you look at what he actually said, NBC has completely misrepresented it. I doubt they don't understand that it's speculation, they're just trying to make some link bait.
I'll credit some of our own local media who do get it.
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As I said on the last post
I am the biggest McNabb supporter on this board. But if he went to the Vikes, I wouldn’t be mad. I’m not ready for the Kolby era and I definitely don’t want to see McNabb leave. But I don’t think he (or really any QB) can thrive in this predictable “big play or bust” offense Morhinweg offers. So if he goes to Vikes and does good and we continue to have some of the same problems, we can finally realize the real problem lies in the press box and not on the field.
Well said Jason
I don’t think teams can talk to each other anyways yet. I am in the camp that would like to see us get something for McNabb with Westbrook, McNabb and Kolbs (even Vick) contracts all being set to finish at the end of next season it seems the team might have been thinking ahead as well.
That said the only ever act we’ve seen from Reid against McNabb would be the Baltimore game two seasons ago. For all we know Reid is laughing at all the speculation knowing he’s not doing anything unless Arizona/Viks makes some crazy offer
Ive been meaning to go to 950espn.com (the fan) but I cant on a government computer. Apparenlty there is a article from last friday on there about word from someone who has “inner knowledge” of the Eagles not being sold on McNabb totally being here next year. If someone could maybe find that link and post it, people can understand what Im trying to explain hah.
"I hate listening to people's dreams. It is like flipping through a stack of photographs. If I'm not in any of them and nobody is having sex, I just don't care. "
Last night Jason La Canfora said on NFL Network, “From what my sources tell me, Mcnabb’s not going anywhere.”
For those in the trade Mcnabb wagon, do you guys really think Mcnabb is only worth a 2nd round pick?
How sure are you Kolb is gonna be better than Mcnabb?
If he ends being an AJ Feeley(which is who he reminds me of), what the hell then? Be glad you got a pick for Mcnabb? We would have something similar but far worse than our FS situation right now. All this “let him walk for nothing?” talk is bullshit. What is he? A kidnappee that you can’t let him walk unless you get a ransom?
I want to be SURE Kolb is the answer, so I am opposed to trading Mcnabb. Twist it however you want but Mcnabb is STILL a top 10 QB in this league.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 1:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Mcnabb is not a top 10 QB
And how will you ever be SURE Kolb is a top 10 QB if Mcnabb is here?
A list
Peyton Manning is clearly the best quarterback in football. And Drew Brees is not far behind. And then, I’ll go ahead and put Roethlisberger at 3. And, what the hell – I’ll even say Philip Rivers is 4, even though his choke-job against the Jets was something to behold.
After that, who comes next?
Tom Brady? The jury’s still out on whether he’ll be in the stratosphere of his 2007 self ever again. Aaron Rodgers? He’s never won anything in his life (and if we’ve learned anything about Eagles fans, it’s that they’ll blame the quarterback for the entire team’s performance). Favre? Warner? Both on the ass end (or out) of great careers. Vince Young? Still need more time to see him play, but he has an argument if he keeps his work ethic up and his demeanor positive.
Romo? Please. The Vikings proved that he’s the same old shitty quarterback if you dedicate yourself to rushing him. Palmer? He actually played like shit this year. Eli? No. Shaub? What?
You’re a hell-bent idiot if you don’t at least submit to the fact that McNabb is top 8.
Lmao
Rodgers is way better than Mcnabb. Rodgers both years starting has had 4000+ yards, Mcnabb has yet to do that once. Also, what has Mcnabb ever won?
Brady is better than Mcnabb, no question. Romo is better than Mcnabb. Favre is better than Mcnabb. Warner is better than Mcnabb. Shaub is better than Mcnabb.
So lets recap.
Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Shaub, Rivers, Reothlisberger, Romo, Favre, Warner. Those are the for sure ones. Then you could make a case for Eli and the rest.
Either way, outside of the top 10 for sure
Nice try tho.
Shaub? Romo? They have ONE playoff win combined. Favre(most likely) and Warner are retiring. Mcnabb never cracked 4000 because he sat the last game in 2004 and got his ribs cracked by a cheapshot causing him to miss 2 games this season. The ONLY two years he had good receivers. Nice try back at ya.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who cares about playoff wins?
Superbowl or nothing. Plus we’re talking about whos the better QB right now, and all those 10+ QB’s are better than Mcnabb.
Superbowl or nothing? Take off Rodgers, Shaub, Romo and Rivers off your list. Brees is excused for obvious reasons.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What?
Mcnabb hasn’t won a superbowl either. Either way, all those QB’s are still better than Mcnabb right now. You’re blinded by bias if you think otherwise. (and clearly ignorant of stats)
There are two criterias you judge a quarterback by. Stats and Wins. Combine them and Mcnabb is at least better than Shaub and Romo. Rodgers is better no doubt. They had 11 wins and put up 45 against the Cards, losing because of blown calls and lack of defense. Rivers has been to AFC Champ game.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You don't judge a QB by wins
Winning is a team effort. Are you going to tell me Flacco is better than Shaub?
I said stats AND wins. Not just one or the other. If you went by just stats then Shaub is better than every QB because he passed for 4700 yards. He threw 15 picks which I’m sure cost them a game or 2. You have to be a winner to be considered a top QB in this league. Thats widely regarded.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
his stats are inflated
we had a weak schedule this year. and the biggest, telling that is he is at minimum completing 5% less than al lthe top playoff teams. sometimes up to 8-10%. That’s huge
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Also...
Its funny you mention team effort now. Who do you guys all blame when we lose? Hint: Its not the O-line or poor defense.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 5:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
uh yes we do
but in many of the years past we’ve had strong defenses and good O-lines.
Like yosh said, 60% of the time McNabb is throwing hte ball, sometimes more. Our success is contingent on him consistently t hrowing the ball to the WRs. If he can’t do that, no matter how good the blocking, or the WRs, we’re not going to put up points.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
And Shaub lead the league in receiving yards
at 4700+, with Kevin Walter out like half a year and wasn’t Andre Johnson out too? Shaub’s a top QB, his team/defense is garbage.
cobb'd
haha passing yards, not receiving
Get lost Jody. Learn to write better than 5th grade level before name calling others.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mcnabb has only ONE year left smart one. He is either retiring or moving on. Kolb will have his time.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Whats the difference between starting Kolb this year or next?
Want to know the difference? If he starts this year, we get a 1st/2nd round pick. If he starts next year, we get nothing.
Wanna know what happens if Kolb sucks? We suck for years and you and the others will be eating crow. Why not have both for next year for insurance? One last shot for Mcnabb and we are guaranteed at least a playoff spot.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 3:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well Kolb will get his shot this year or next
So if Kolb ends up sucking, which I don’t think will be the case at all, I’d rather find that out sooner rather than later, so you know, we can get a QB when our young players hit their prime.. Mcnabb may guarantee us a playoff spot, althought it’ll be tough next year if he plays as inconsistent as he did this year with our schedule. Either way, I’m 100% convinced we won’t win a superbowl with Mcnabb next year, which defeats the purpose of him returning.
No but what makes you think he will next year
as opposed to the previous 11?
exactly
hes had good defenses, play makers and offensive lines..and hasn’t got it done. and his skills are declining
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Not to mention that
Our defense next year will be one of the least dominate defenses we’ve had in the decade. No more relying on them. This past year if we played a few more good teams our defense would have been completely exposed. We were lucky to be playing Cutler and the like who misfired on about a hundred defensive breakdowns.
What makes you think Kolb will be better than Mcnabb? Did we not go to the Superbowl with Mcnabb and losing to a cheating Pats team? At least I KNOW we will be contenders with Mcnabb.
It would be best to keep both. I’m done going back and forth with illogical responses.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well Kolb seems better suited for this offense
Is a lot more accurate in the short-mid game. Our offense doesn’t need a QB who has to shoulder the entire load. We need someone who can just get the ball to Jackson, Maclin, Mccoy, Weaver cuz they’re all playmakers.
one of my least favorite arguments in the mcnabb v kolb debate is that kolb is “better suited” for what we need. NONE of us know that. you just want change and it comes in the form of Kevin Kolb.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
and i digress some in regards to you specifically. you did preface your argument with “seems.” otherwise, i stand by my point
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Bull shit
In a West Coast offense you need someone who can pass the ball quickly and accurately. Jeff Garcia in 06? It comes in the form of another QB and not McNabb
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
McNabb is a career 60% passer. the guys may not hit some passes that he should, but he also hits on some that he shouldnt.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
and thats what used to make him good
the fact he would hit some that he shouldnt. but hes doing it less and less now
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
36..and what exactly is your logic?
You don’t think Kolb is going to be any good (which isn’t fact, but pure speculation) so you rather stick with a 34 year old with declining skills? ?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I never said Kolb is not going to be any good. I believe he can be good but will throw more picks than Mcnabb. He won’t be making elite throws that Mcnabb has made over his career but could be better for the system. I just think we have the best chance to win right now with Mcnabb at the helm. Did we not win 6 straight games before Jackson’s injury(even if the teams were subpar)? I want both of them to be here next year. I don’t want the same thing happening like our FS situation. Let Mcnabb finish out his last year. Let’s see how he does with more experienced receivers, better O line play and improved defense. I think he deserves that. If Mcnabb is not doing great for the first half of the year, bring on Kolb.
by Route36 on Jan 28, 2010 7:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OK
That’s fair, BUT…BUT!
If we keep McNabb one more year — we get nothing for him — he walks. That’s the biggest issue.
We got 6 games in a row, but even in some of those six games against sub par teams we didn’t look great. The defense looked terrible against the Giants, our offense almost won and lost the game against Denver, Washington was close, Cutler tried as hard as he could to give us the game against Chicago. A win is a win, but that doesn’t do any good in the playoffs cause its 0-0 record wise and if you can’t beat good teams your team is golfing in Jan.
I don’t buy that the experience at WRs will make a difference. They’re great already, we should be able to run a consistent offense with what we have. Our O-line was bad at times, b ut it got whacked with injuries…not al lot you can do there
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
If we keep McNabb one more year — we get nothing for him — he walks. That’s the biggest issue.
I said this on another post. Mcnabb is not a kidnappee that we have to get a ransom to let him go.
Like I said, it’s safer to have both for next season. God forbid, Kolb is not good, then what? Be glad we got a pick for Mcnabb? Letting go of Dawkins was HUGE. Let’s not make the same mistake with the most important position in all of sports.
I am actually just finishing watching the Chiefs game again as I’m typing this. Kolb does a VERY good job of getting the ball out quickly and accurately to the open receiver. Key word – open. 90% of his completions were within 10 yards and the receivers were open. Why? Because it is the Chiefs.
He was consistently hitting the curl routes and quick slants because the Chiefs defense is atrocious. They have no pass rush. Now, I am afraid when Kolb plays a good defense and all he is throwing are the short routes, they will jump them and will either bat it or intercept it.
What made Mcnabb elite is he can make throws your average QB can’t make. The deep balls, the lobs, the throw after breaking out the pocket, the over the shoulder throws. Granted, he has declined and is not as accurate as other elite quarterbacks but we have seen him do it even this past season.
Kolb, I trust him but not 100%. He needs to show me he can make throws to receivers even when they are covered or if it’s 3rd and 15 after a holding call or whatever. Since we don’t KNOW he can do those things, that’s why I think Kolb should take over after next season because Mcnabb still got some left in the tank. If Mcnabb is not doing well next season, then bring Kolb in.
Think about it. Would you feel better with Mcnabb AND Kolb next season or Kolb and nobody else?
You get what I’m trying to say man?
I am afraid when Kolb plays a good defense and all he is throwing are the short routes, they will jump them and will either bat it or intercept it.
In 2.5 games, there are already three examples of that. Ed Reed pick 6, Scott Shanle pick that gave the Saints the ball at the 20 for the eventual TD, and Sharper pick 6.
Better be safe than sorry my man.
Wasn't there a rediculous stat
Like all our receivers had more yards, tds, first downs, in 2 games with Kolb, then they did in the first 4 games with Mcnabb?
Good post
I honestly don’t think McNabb is leaving, for a couple of reasons:
1. HE doesn’t want to go. I think he truly likes it here. Maybe not necessarily the fans, but he likes the owner, the coach, and his teammates. As for the fans, I’m sure he knows some of us love him, but I think for the others, he wants to prove them wrong. That’s a strong drive for some people.
2. The Eagles don’t want him to go, at least not yet. They THINK they know what they have in Kolb, but they also know that now is probably not the time to change QBs when they are so close.
3. There’s no where for him to go. Arizona will probably go with Leinert. The Vikings might be a place, but does anybody know what Favre will do? Is that the best situation to walk into? Who starts if McNabb goes and Favre wants to come back after unretiring again? After that, McNabb wouldn’t want to go anywhere else, as the rest of the teams that need a QB aren’t that good.
Reid- Best Coach in Eagles History
McNabb- Best QB in Eagles History
This is the year
by bdawk4ever on Jan 28, 2010 1:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We play peyton and his colts in Philly next year
Hope our defense improves vastly by the 2010 season
by bkeagle718 on Jan 28, 2010 1:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I am going to have to take the Colts in that one regardless. They always seem to just maul us. James Mungro has 430 career rushing yards, and over a quarter of them came in a 35-13 whooping in 2002. Then in 2006, Addai torched us for 208 total yards and 4 TD’s, and the Colts won 45-21 Bah.
by captain nodar on Jan 28, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think that any team can look at the Colts and say…“i like our chances.” they’re just good…..
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Those commentators like Clayton are ridiculous. The price for Jay Cutler was what— 2 first round draft picks? And the Eagles are going to part with McNabb for a number 2? I think the Bears have set the going rate for a starting quarterback. If he’s traded, McNabb will be at LEAST a number 1 plus a player. Would ANY GM trade a healthy multiple Pro-Bowler, who went to 5 NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl, for a number 2 pick?
by ghostofandrewatters on Jan 28, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions
Great point
I feel like I am taking crazy pills with all this McNabb trade talk. Among other issues, how do they think that McNabb is only worth a second round pick? Roy Williams was worth a first and a third, yet McNabb is worth a second? Now that is ridiculous.
Also, I watched a little NFL Live last night on ESPN, which I instantly regretted after 5 minutes, and Schlereth said regarding Philly, “Be careful what you wish for in trading McNabb.” No one in the front office is suggesting the Eagles trade McNabb, are they? That guys is essentially just responding to a story that his company created. Again, ridiculous.
Keep up the good work, BGN.
"That guys is essentially just responding to a story that his company created. Again, ridiculous."
Yup, that’s how the ESPN machine works.
Cutler is younger, and quite frankly the Bears needed him more than the Vikes need Donny. You factor in that McNabb is 34 years old and only has 1 year left meaning that you need to extend him. Not just that, but McNabb at this point is a rental. You are only going to have him for a few years, whereas Cutler at the time looked like a star QB, and the face of the franchise for a decade.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 31, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
For all this blah, blah, blah
Wouldn’t Cleveland make more sense? If the Vikings go after McNabb, it clearly means Jackson is done, they MUST draft a QB within the next two years and they probably should do it this year. And if they want one of the better QBs, they’ll have to mortgage much of THIS year’s draft to get McNabb and much of NEXT year’s draft to get into the top 15. The Browns can offer better picks and still make a credible, if improbable, argument that Quinn can get the job done after studying under #5.
to groom their under-performing stars maybe? to sell tickets? i have mentioned McNabb possibly being traded up there as well. I dont think its too far fetched.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
and what do u think they are willing to give up
for an aging qb? they are rebuilding. THE NEED draft picks
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
based off of your opinion of McNabb, i wouldnt think that you’d value him beyond a pack of paper clips and a week old doughnut.
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Jan 28, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
No be honest
What do u think a rebuilding team who needs all the draft picks they can get is willing to give up for a 34 year old QB who won’t be there for more than 1-2 years?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
“What do u think a rebuilding team who needs all the draft picks they can get is willing to give up for a 34 year old QB who won’t be there for more than 1-2 years?”
You mean like Minnesota or Arizona and the young rookie quarterbacks they drafted? Or Kansas City? Or Denver?
by ghostofandrewatters on Jan 28, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Minnesotta isn't a rebuildilng team
If you haven’t noticed they were just in the CG game and should’ve won. Arizona is also a playoff team who made the divionsional round. Oh, and Tavaris Jackson? They got Brett Favre at 40 years old, bc they didnt want TJ at QB. They also gave Warner an EXTENSION because they didnt want Leinart to suit up.
Denver might be an option. KC they gave Cassell a huge deal, so no
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I wouldn't say Denver
They seem pretty confident in Orton.
Detroit and Tampa Bay might be possibilities – put in a veteran to school their young QB’s and help them prepare for the future.
I'm a hater...
i admit it… it dosen’t make me happy to actually “hate” a player… I mean it’s only a game. but the worminator is not a player… he’s a freakin’ bonehead curse… all his wonderful stats mean absolutley zilch… he has never been capable of winning… not in college (where he choked in the last game) to the superbowl where vomited because he got so nervous he couldn’t think clearly… as long as he is an eagle the team will be average at best… between him and the pillsbury doughboy… the eagles are saddled with two of the most overrated people in the NFL… even if the light finally went off in reid’s head and he traded mcnabb for a pick or two, the just waste the pick on no talent, no character losers… this is pathetic!!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 28, 2010 8:55 PM EST reply actions
Jason
very glad you tried to make this distinction for people, even though it just devolved into another McNabb sucks/doesn’t suck argument.
It’s a very good idea to read between the lines when it comes to talking head chatter. As you said, speculation can be useful, but read it as such, and don’t confuse it with something that involves reporting.
+rec
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
If we give up McNabb for 2nd round pick
That would be the worst trade since the Native Americans selling Manhattan for 24 dollars.
Especially if it’s the Vikings’ second round pick.
MINIMUM top 15 pick I would say is warranted.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
You want a minimum top 15 pick for a 34 year old QB with a long injury, and one year left on his deal? Are you retarded?
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 31, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
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