Comparing the Birds and the 'Boys
(I first posted this at BTB...but was encouraged also to start the discussion here)
This post assumes three things. Firstly, it assumes that we are all fans of the NFL. In fact, we’re such passionate fans that we get on blog sites mid-week to continue rooting for our teams. With that said, it should be clear that we have a lot more in common than not...the only difference between us is the uniform color we root for.
Secondly, I’m looking at players objectively. I have no problem calling one guy better than another if he is; regardless of his uniform. As I compare players, I call a “push” those two guys that each of their teams’ fans would rather keep than trade for his counterpart on the opposing team. As an example, I’ll call DeSean and Miles a “push”. Dallas fans will argue all day that Miles is better, and they’d rather have him; Eagles will do the same...there will never be agreement, and there really is no clear ‘winner’...they’re a push.
Thirdly, in my comparison, I’m only looking at our game tomorrow, not our rosters at 100% health.
Offense:
QB: Romo vs McNabb
Edge: Push >Both guys have elevated their games in the 2nd half of the season. This is a push, and both sides will disagree with that, which is why it’s a push.
RB: Westbrook vs Barber
Edge: Push >This is tough. I would usually give this to Westy, but we haven’t really seen him most of the season, and I don’t know what we’re going to see from him on Sunday. Barber hasn’t looked particularly explosive this year either, which is why Cowboys have had more success with the platoon system.
RB: Jones and Choice vs McCoy and Weaver
Edge: Push >The Eagles backs out-gained the ‘Boys by 11 yards this season, but that’s with Felix missing two games. There are two stats to notice, the first is that the Cowboys backs are averaging 5.9 and 5.5 ypc respectively, while the Birds guys are gaining 4.1 and 4.7; that’s very much in the Cowboys favor. However, McCoy has more receptions and reception yards than both Cowboy backs combined (Eagles guys have 53 rec; 443yds; 2TDs; compared to Cowboys’ backs 31 rec, 248 yds, 0TDs) With one running better, and one catching better.
WR: DeSean vs Austin
Edge: Push >I’ve already stated this is a push. We know what both guys bring to the table, they are both great weapons for their teams. DeSean can make something of nothing, and is used returning kicks and running from the backfield. Austin will spin off three arm tackles, and is a bigger weapon in the redzone.
WR: Maclin and Avant vs Crayton and Williams
Edge: Eagles >Eagles’ guys have 92 receptions for 1294 yards and 7 TDs. Cowboys guys have 71 receptions for 1122 yards and 11TDs, and while this is a push, Eagles WR corps gets the overall nod b/c a healthy Kevin Curtis and Reggie Brown are far superior than Kevin Ogletree who has 2 fumbles on his 6 catches for 81 yards. With that said, it’s a ridiculously even matchup if you have to more than 3 WRs deep to find some discrepancy.
TE: Celek vs. Witten
Edge: Push >If this was a post on careers, it would clearly go to Witten who has been nothing short of phenomenal, and has been consistently producing year in and year out. But THIS year, Celek has matched his production. Witten has 19 more receptions for 79 more yards, but Celek has 8TDs to Witten’s 1...they both have 3 games of 100+ yards. This is also a push.
OT: Jason Peters and Winston Justice vs Flozell and Doug Free
Edge: Eagles >Flozell has 95 penalties himself and has given up 7 sacks this year. Jason Peters, in another pro-bowl year has only 45 penalty yards and has given up 6 sacks. Doug Free has been serviceable covering for Columbo in 6 games, but even to Eagles’ fans surprise Winston Justice has been spectacular.
Interior Linemen: Herremans, Cole, Jean-Gilles vs Kosier, Gurode, Davis
Edge: Cowboys >This definitely goes to the Cowboys! Herremans is good, but after that, the depth of the Eagles is tested. Nick Cole gets his first start at Center (which is his natural position, and he has been starting at Guard all year) with Jackson’s injury, but he clearly is not Gurode. Jean-Gilles has seen some limited time this year, but has been banged up. The plus to the Eagles is that their line has been in flux almost all year, and they’ve managed to be successful. The Cowboys interior lineman are definitely a strength going into this game.
Defense:
DE (OLB): Trent Cole vs DeMarcus Ware
Edge: Push. >Any Questions? Cole: 54 tackles, 12.5 sacks. Ware: 56 tackles, 11 sacks
DE (OLB): Anthony Spencer vs Juqua Parker et. al.
Edge: Cowboys >Spencer has 62 tackles and 4 sacks. Parker has 32 tackles and 7 sacks. The different defensive schemes don’t really equate, and the Eagles rotate this end so much. Bottom line, it’s not a secret that the Eagles don’t have a stud opposite Cole, and Spencer’s really good. I give Cowboys the edge here.
DT (DE): Bunkley and Patterson vs Ratliff, Olshansky, and Spears
Edge: Push >This is a push, not because Ratliff is the best guy here, which he is. He is not only an incredible run defender, he collapses the pocket. If I were to compare player by player, Ratliff would get the edge on everyone...but, if you look at the interior lines, if Ratliff is #1, Bunkley and Patterson grab the 2 and 3 spots. They may not collapse the pocket and get to the QB like Ratliff, but there’s a reason teams have not had success at all running up the middle against us.
CBs: Sheldon and Asante vs TNew and Jenkins
Edge: Eagles >As much as Cowboy fans want this to be a push, it isn’t. Brown and Asante could very easily be the best CB tandem in the league. TNew is solid and Jenkins is young and promising, and in a year or two could easily develop into a great player, but they aren’t at the level of Sheldon and Asante.
ILBs (LBs): Spoon, Trotter, and Fokou vs James and Brooking
Edge: Cowboys >In reality I understand that Will Witherspoon is probably the only Eagles LB that could start for the Cowboys. We’ve been in flux all year, and our LBs have not been impressive.
SS: Mikell vs Sensebaugh
Edge: Push. >Mikell has 64 tackles and 2 picks vs Gerald’s 60 tackles and 1 pick. These guys are both good players, and I was actually pissed when I heard the Cowboys got Sens.
FS: Jones, Harris, Demps vs Ken Hamlin
Edge: Eagles. >Hamlin has 49 tackles in 11 games. Sean Jones has 57 tackles, 1 sack, and 2 picks in only 9 starts. Macho Harris has 35 tackles, Demps adds another 11 tackles and a pick. The Eagles have rotated this position like their linebackers, and while it hasn’t been a strong point of our defense, neither has Ken Hamlin been for the ‘Boys.
Eagles get the edge in WR depth, offensive tackles, corner backs, and free Safety
Cowboys get the edge in interior offensive lineman, WLB (vs LDE), and interior Linebackers (vs Eagles LBs)
The biggest thing we should walk away from this with is an appreciation for how evenly matched our teams are. I don’t really understand how either side can talk very confidently about a win. This game can REALLY go either way.
Biggest Battles?
-Ratliff vs banged up Eagles interior line. This should benefit Ratliff, he should have a good game
-Ware and Peters will Battle, as will Cole and Flozell.
-Witten should be able to take advantage of our LBs.
-The Eagles 3 and 4 WRs should be able to take advantage of the Cowboy’s depth at CB
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Once again (I posted on BTB), nice post, Jala.
There really isn’t anything I can disagree with here.
The Eagles are the first team in NFL history to have a running back and a wide receiver with 500 yards apiece in the same season before their 22nd birthdays.
well I have to disagree about ONE thing
most of us philly fans have at one time liven in or around philly….there be lots of frontrunnin cowwhats fans. Other than that good post Jalarsen.
"It was a matter of pride. You want to put that (opponent) on his back, that’s the name of the game. These (players) today are out there playing pitty-pat."
Chuck Bednarik
That has nothing to do with this post
At all.
"Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Jan 2, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
the only difference between us is the uniform color we root for
it was in the first paragragh…if you actually bothere to read anything beyond “cowboys”
"It was a matter of pride. You want to put that (opponent) on his back, that’s the name of the game. These (players) today are out there playing pitty-pat."
Chuck Bednarik
by northern eagle on Jan 2, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
further more...your not even a cowboys fan to start with
Transplant from Flower Mound, Texas to the big bad world of the greater Philly area with the bunch of obnoxious Eagle fans. I was a huge Houston Oiler fan, but once they left the city and McNair left the team, I started following the only other NFL team in Texas at the time. The Cowboys. At first, grudginly, but it’s easy to support a winner. The malice of the Eagles’ fans has only strengthened my resolve to support the Cowboys.
"It was a matter of pride. You want to put that (opponent) on his back, that’s the name of the game. These (players) today are out there playing pitty-pat."
Chuck Bednarik
by northern eagle on Jan 2, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Two points
I don’t know if I would call Justice’s performance “spectacular”. I know we’ve had this discussion before, so I’ll only say that Justice has been very good and I’m just as surprised as anyone by the way he has turned his career around.
Secondly, if we are only looking at the rosters for tomorrows game like you said, I’d give the edge to Celek over Witten (didn’t think I’d be writing that this time last year). Now clearly Jason Witten is a great player, but the fact that Celek has SEVEN more TD catches (which, for all of us match geniuses is 54 points on the board) MORE than Witten, absolutely destroys any argument over this in my eyes, which is also why I am bummed that Celek didn’t get the Pro Bowl nod.
Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare.
I actually think its the opposite
If you take blocking into account, I think witten is a much better blocker than celek so I would give the nod to witten.
i think any reasonable person
would take 42 points over blocking ability especially when celek is still at least an average blocker
Eagles.
by #1EaglesFan on Jan 3, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
you can argue that because of his blocking Witten gets less TD's
He is often held in to block in goal line situations. I don’t quite understand the coaches logic here, but it happens a fair bit.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
Reason
We had a major injury at RT this year in Colombo, and even at full strength, in a goal line situation, either Flozell or Colombo/Free are going to need help. Also, Dallas doesn’t really have a true fullback, as Anderson is hardly ever used and probably off of the team next year, and Witten has been used more as a TE/FB tweener with Bennett and Phillips getting chances to play at the TE position.
Just win a playoff game...please?
Great post man...
You should have added Special Teams too but we all know who gets the edge on that one.
Rec’d.
"If you think Newman and Jenkins are better than Samuel and Brown, you’re off your rocker"
by Bye, Dawk :( on Dec 29, 2009
"I would take them straight up over your guys right now"
by squidlo97 on Dec 29, 2009
Don't leave out the coaching matchup
I give Reid the edge, but then I’m an Eagles fan. Going with jalarsen1’s theory here, looking at just this season and the two teams’ fans can reasonably argue either way, you could call it a push.
Reid has done more with less due to injuries and young players this year… then again, the Cowboys won the first matchup this year. On the third hand, the Eagles are playing a lot better at this point in the season than they were when they first played the Cowboys… but so are the Cowboys, in their recent 2 wins. But, one of the Cowboys’ two wins in December was against the Redskins after they knocked off for the season. This argument could go either way, but what did Parcells say about records? 11-4 vs 10-5. So I give it to Reid.
Spencer is “really good?”
Really? By what measure? Isn’t that guy generally regarded as a disappointment of a first round pick?
If you look at the guys taken before him
He was the last of 5 DEs taken in the 1st, and has outperformed all of them. The only guy even remotely close is Jamaal Anderson, and still he only has more ‘upside’ than actual production.
The next DE (taken in the 2nd) was LaMarr Woodley, so I guess he’s a bust if you compare him here, but Woodley’s guy in 2 rounds of that draft that even compares with Spencer (including Abiamiri)
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
correction
…Woodley’s “the only” guy in 2 rounds…
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
I dont know if you could call him "really good"
but his play in the second half of this year has been.
So I had to establish the rules and regulations of the game...85!
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 2, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
he just REALLY impressed me against the Saints
I’ll be honest here
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Stinchcomb is
going to the Pro Bowl, isn’t he? And both Spencer and Ware were giving him fits. This is not some FA off the street they did that to.
"Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Jan 2, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Great Post...But
The quarterback position I would have to Give a very small edge to McNabb . McNabb’s Been there done that . Plus Shows up big in these games.
and Cowboy fans would argue Romo
that’s why it has to be a push
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Big games?
When Romo came in and won in Philly earlier this year, was that a big game?
What about when Romo led the Cowboys to a win over the unbeaten Saints?
It would be nice if you guys would mix in a win against a playoff team this year.
"Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Jan 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Leadership
Im looking at this way. McNabb is a better leader then Romo. You didnt see McNabb and Jackson going to Vegas before playing the giants." A move that knocked you out of first place". Sorry man If i was putting together an NLF team and someone asked me Romo or McNabb. I’d pick Mcnabb all day without thinking about it. You dont know what screwball romo is going to do. That was a BIG GAME. Who in the hell goes to Vegas when they are playing a team that just beat them in the begining of the year. Romo over McNabb yea right. Thats not a push. Ask Lion fans who they’d rather have. Oh yea they beat the undefeated saints . Forgot that one . I wonder if the TB is still braggin about that victory too. Hey … Do you guys think they’ll give us those 2 first downs they robbed from us last time?
Yeah but you forget how he defined “push” in the post.
As I compare players, I call a "push" those two guys that each of their teams’ fans would rather keep than trade for his counterpart on the opposing team.
It’s tough to objectively say who will have the better game on Sunday, so it’s better to judge based on what the opposing fans agree on. In this case, we agree to disagree, so Romo & McNabb are labeled a “push”.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Jan 2, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
That's a weak argument.
Romo and Austin spent a half a day in Vegas to attend a charity event after a Thanksgiving game. Romo was back at Valley Ranch for medial treatment the Saturday morning after the game. All he missed was spending his day off in Dallas.
So I had to establish the rules and regulations of the game...85!
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 2, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
wow REALLY?
is that alll you got? Hmmm well, It would be nice if you guys could win a playoff game….need i say more?
"It was a matter of pride. You want to put that (opponent) on his back, that’s the name of the game. These (players) today are out there playing pitty-pat."
Chuck Bednarik
by northern eagle on Jan 2, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Great objectivity
That has been in limited supply this week on both sides. I’d have to say that I agree with you 100% with the exception of FS. I’d give Hamlin the edge. We all know that position has been a problem for the Birds. The Cowboys also get the nod for homefield advantage. Eagles get the edge in kickers and coaching. Very evenly matched game.
I always struggle with these kinds of comparisons because the players you compare do not play each other. So the real advantage goes to the team where those playing against each other have clear advantages. While it is blasphemy to say so, I think the only obvious mismatch in this game is the Cowboys front 7 vs. the Eagles interior line. It is going to take a great game by Cole/Jean-Gilles to pull this out.
I was going to take the post that direction also
and look at the players that would be playing directly across from each other, but it was getting WAY too long!!!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
T. Cole > Flozell
Ratliffe > N. Cole
Spencer/Ware > MJG
L. Davis > Bunkley
Celek > B. Carpenter
"Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Jan 2, 2010 11:39 PM EST reply actions
Spencer/Ware > MJG…
I don’t follow the Cowboys every week, but I keep an eye on them regularly and I don’t remember seeing Ware ever line up over the right guard. Correct me if I’m wrong?
The Eagles are the first team in NFL history to have a running back and a wide receiver with 500 yards apiece in the same season before their 22nd birthdays.
I'd argue Bunkley/Patterson > L.Davis...
Depending on if it was a pass or run play. Our DTs are monsters against the run but leave something to be desired with their pass rush.
by IgglesFanDeployd on Jan 3, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Very good analysis.
I would just add in special teams and coaching, which I think are two areas in which the Eagles have the advantage.
"He wasn't an astronaut, he was a tv comedian! And he was just using space travel as a metaphor for beating his wife!"
I agree that Jackson's return capabilities would give the Eagles the edge there
but I don’t know if he will get many opportunities with McBriar punting to him.
So I had to establish the rules and regulations of the game...85!
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 3, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions
A little problem with the logic, would love some explaining...
Witten – Celek = Push
It’s all about TDs… Witten is above Celek in almost every stat… So, how can you explain that the WRs and RBs are a push, too?
Touchdowns!
Cowboys RBs = 12
Eagles RBs = 10 (including the FB and receiving TDs)
Cowboys WRs = 23
Eagles WRs = 16
That’s 9 TDs right there. 54 points.
And that isn’t the whole story, at the dawn of the season which were the 3 keys to stop the Cowboys Offense?
- Press Romo, but keep him in the pocket.
- Take Witten of the game.
- Watch out for the slow developing Cowboys running plays.
At the dusk of the season which are the 3 keys to stop the Eagles Offense?
- Press McNabb, but keep him in the pocket.
- Take the deep game off the gameplan, forcing them to travel the field in small, contained, plays.
- The RBs can catch the ball and are dangerous on the open field, watch out for screens and tosses.
Who’s more important for it’s Offense? Right now, Witten is probably off the Cowboys list, containment and sure tackling of the Cowboys pass receivers is probably in 2nd place right now due to the emergence of Austin, and that’s the gist of it:
Witten (first 8 games): 44 catches, 391 yards.
Witten (last 7 games): 44 catches, 563 yards.
Teams are paying less attention to Witten in the open field right now and he’s making them pay for it, obviously with a short field in the red zone teams can again focus on taking Witten off the field, but the Offense is making them play by making plays with their other players.
TDs by a single offense player are overrated, because the other players can score, too.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I think we can at least agree that...
Michael Vick/Kevin Kolb are definately better than Kitna/McGee…
Woohooo, that smells like victory to me. But seriously…almost game time!
What is the point
Of comparing the Eagles players directly against the same players on the ’Boys. Much more interested to see how the perspective units match up and what changes from the 1st game.
I have a simple motto for the last two games these two teams played and it still applies to this upcoming game
Protect the football, prevent the big plays, score TDs; these teams are even on talent in different areas as this post has shown. Both games dallas has made the plays needed to win the games, the iggles have not taken advantage of the opportunities they have had. In both games they had one turnover they generated from dallas and both times dallas’ defense stopped them from scoring any points. The iggles were not as fortunate, 2 of 3 turnovers in both games led to 10 points. The field position game is going to be critical again, I think the 2nd game your team’s field position never crossed the 20; that provides a boost to dallas’ defense. I do not know if your team had any better field position in the 1st game but it was probably better than their own 20 yard line.
The playoffs are a different environment than the regular season, the team that can make the needed plays will win all that is left is to see which team will make the plays.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
The malice of the Eagles' fans has only strengthened my resolve to support the Cowboys
Gay
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
Westbrook needs LESS playing time...
Anyone else take notice of how absolutely ineffective Westbrook was last Sunday…
Not that we gave any of our backs much an opportunity to make plays…but as much I have come to love 36West…he is simply the not the explosive game changing back he once was…
I really think we not only have to commit to the run, we need Shady/Weaver handling the bulk of the load, if not all of it. Westbrook is simply ineffective at running the ball these days….Game Rust plus all the injuries and who knows if those concussions are still in this thoughts… Put him in on 3rd downs if any at all.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Jan 6, 2010 5:20 PM EST reply actions
Go Back now and look at your comparisons
and see if you think you were being accurate. After 3 games, the Cowboys are just flat out better so your evaluations must be off. Especially re: Sheldon Brown and Assante Samuel. Maybe re Trent Cole also. And Westbrook is done, De Sean Jackson is overrated- re struggled against the few good teams he has faced.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

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