Over-Rated Defense?
by Moradi818 on Sep 21, 2009 10:30 AM EDT
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PrintOk, so all ive been hearing in the past couple of weeks is how good this Eagle D is and how people expect the defense to to be great. I really dont see any of that, let me tell you what i see. I see probably the worst LB core in the entire NFL, i see a over-rated secondary (Minus Asante, and Mikell), Ellis Hobbs could be the worst CB on this team. The DL has a stud in Trent, but i dont see much else after that, Bunk;ey's still up and coming to me hes shown bright spots but hes not consistent enough. The game against Carolina was great. but i think thats more of Jake being horrible than the defense being great. I expect to see a lot of high scoring games this year, and the its all going to be on the offense to keep us in games. I want this Eagle D to be as great as people are making them to be but i just dont see it.
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The Saints
are going to give a lot of defenses bad days.
We’re an aggressive defense that will get burned in single coverage at times, but should also create turnovers and sacks.
We have seen us swing in both directions dramatically… we don’t really know where we are yet until we play a few more teams.
by Smallbugger on Sep 21, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with some of your concerns but...
Sheldon hasnt done much.
That’s a very stupid thing to say. How often do you see him get torched on a deep route? When does he ever miss an assignment? Miss a tackle?
When playing man in the redzone, how often do the opponents throw his direction?
Never.
No, he doesn’t get picks or even a lot of passes defensed, but that is not because he isn’t doing his job. They guy is just so proficient at blanketing his man that you don’t see him because the ball doesn’t go in his direction.
Talk about the rest of the D all you want, Sheldon Brown is definitely not a weak point, nor is he overrated.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
Best part is Hank...
Is that Sheldon was clearly the best DB in week 1 where he actually did grab 2 nice INTs and he is always a solid tackler and even a big hitter (for a cb thats pretty rare).
I rate Sheldon higher than Asante for overall, consistent play. Seriously, do your research before you start throwing your bias opinions around here.
And…last time I checked, our Team has proven over the last few years that our team only gets better as the season progresses….just look at last year. I’ll take that any day over a team that consistently shits the bed in the last few months of the regular season.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Sep 21, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
sheldon has redeemed himself
after all the contract fit throwing he has done this offseason… Pay the man.
Let's hold off of that "pay the man" comment
For all we know he could be shit for rest of the season. Wait until the Dead Period, aka offseason, to say that.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
nah
sheldon has been good for years .. i wanted to pay him in the off season .. hes well under paid .. but they wont .. just like they wouldnt pay TO .. they will plug hanson in and go on with their business
by jack is better than asante on Sep 21, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Relax...
It’s one bad game.
And let’s give credit where credit is due – The Saints played phenomenal football yesterday, and Drew Brees is making a strong case for himself to be called the best football player on the planet (with apologies to AP). His style reminds me a lot of Joe Montana.
Last week, we’re the ‘85 Bears – This week, we’re overrated.
This is a marathon, not a race, fellas. We’ll be fine.
Bye, Big Stew and JJ :(
Its the beginning of the season....
you’d think that you would remember last season, when the team was all over the place for the first part of the season, made adjustments and became one of the top units in the league.
The Saints are probably the bets offense in the league. Brees would have to come down with a bout of severe Delhomme-itis in order for the Eagles to win that game without McNabb.
You couldn’t control the clock either.
What the f$%k is the internet?
Difference was the we had veteran leadership (Dawk, JJ). A young group of inexperienced guys isn’t going to just pick it up.
just to let you know JJ was with the Eagles 99-08, McDermott 98-08 … He knows what he’s doing he worked his way up through the ranks and can lead this defense with the best of them give the guy a break. Even JJs defenses struggled at times.
We have veteran leadership, Sheldon Brown 8 years, Asante Samuel 7 years, Darren Howard 10 years, Juqua Parker 9 years, Omar Gaither and Chris Gocong 4 years a piece … Quintin Mikell 7 years. Just to name a few, this team is fine.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
So just because McDermott was there with him means hes just as good? Hell no, in that case AJ should be just as good as Donovan because hes been with him for awhile right?
you said veteran leadership … if he is there the same amount of time doesn’t that make him a veteran?
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
you can blame our losses or future failure as a team on the fact that we lost JJ and Dawk but its just a scapegoat. This team has the tools to win.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Yes, but give the D some time
Spanuolo was up and down his first year with the Giants D too, and we know how that worked out
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
But your comparing Sean to JJ saying that just because hes there as long he knows as much. The players looked up to JJ, they believed in his system and it showed, i dont know if the team trusts Sean YET.
I’m pretty sure I said
JJ was with the Eagles 99-08, McDermott 98-08Meaning McDermott has been here as long as JJ was and followed that with
He knows what he’s doing he worked his way up through the ranks and can lead this defense with the best of them give the guy a break. Even JJs defenses struggled at times.
Meaning give the guy a break it was one bad game even JJs defenses struggled at times. I don’t know how you turned that into McDermott >= JJ.
I saw no reason to believe the players don’t believe in Sean they didn’t quit yesterday the made mistakes and I expect them to rebound.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Sure against a Chiefs team there bound to have a good game. Im more excited to see how they do against top teams in the NFL, which doesn’t look that great so far.
I see … you are just a classic negadelphian … how’s that working out for you?
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Is that supposed to make me feel bad or something? Im simply stating the obvious here Eagles D was horrible, no arguing with that.
no one argued that the D was horrible I agree … but I’m not over here slitting my wrists claiming they will never win another game
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
I dont think im “slitting my wrists” im simply stating that if we continue to play D like this against top notch teams no chance we get out first Superbowl this year.
Thanks Madden.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Prediction, Whodie...
If the Eagles score more points than the Chiefs next week, they’ll win the game.
Bye, Big Stew and JJ :(
Good Job Captain
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Sep 21, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
that makes sense...
A QB with inferior talent can be as good as one with HOF talent cuz he’s watching the whole time?
McDermott knows what he’s doing.
I know its hard to do, but give credit to the other team. The Saints have a Top 1 offense. That’s top 1 overall. As in no one better.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Believe me, Saints get a ton of credit, but just like last week when the Eagles were stuffed with praise for how good there defense played i think its fair for them to be criticized when they play as bad as they did.
I got no problem with criticizing them....
but its kinda like the Giants vs. Pie game yesterday.
No ball control, 2 very good offenses, its gonna be a high scoring game cuz the D’s are on the field too much.
Brees is gonna win a shootout 9/10 times with any QB, let alone Kevin Kolb.
Kolb played well, but the fact he was forced to throw 51 times doomed the team.
The Eagles defense will be fine, that is the least of the worries Id think of Eagles fans.
Its whether McNabb returns healthy at some point.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
OK...
As a fan of a team that in the past, as in 2007, as seen some of the worst defense ever, as well as last night seeing a pile of crap as our run D….
The first 2-4 weeks just some things are gonna be not up to par. Somethings are clicking (read. HAM and Smith), the run D is not.
Is it a concern? Should be, of course. But is it something that’s fixable? I don’t know what the Eagle problem is, but I know the Giants have injuries and a new coordinator blitzing entirely too much to blame for the woes.
Bottom line, its not the lack of talent on the defense. They are there, they are legit.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
sheldon
u dont know football than .. cuz the one person im not worried about on d is sheldon .. asante gets beat more than him because he gambles .. sheldon is very lock down .. im pretty sure asante got beat a few times yesterday .. and hobbs was horrible .. told u he should of been cut
by jack is better than asante on Sep 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions
Wow
Panic much?
So you think our secondary is over-rated but only after you ignore half of the starters (our most talented ones)? That’s like saying We won the game yesterday if you just ignore us losing it. The D-line is pretty loaded with playmakers, the reason none of them shines as much as Trent is because they all get rotated in and out so much, but Darren Howard has already racked up two sacks this season along with Trent. Patterson and Bunkley stuffed the run very well last year and we have a ton of depth there. Brown is a very solid corner who doesn’t make a lot of mistakes, his style is different than Asante’s or good ole Lito’s, he isn’t going to get a lot of picks but there aren’t going to be many catches when the ball goes his way so if you like awesome flashy stats, look somewhere else. Hobbs does in fact suck. Not sure how you are calling Jordan, Gaiter, and Gocong as the worst LBs in the league, so far they’ve got 2 INTs, .5 sacks and a bunch of tackles between them.
Quit panicking, they had a bad game against probably the best offensive attack in the game right now. Let’s move on to week 3.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I agree
it was a bad game defensively, and on special teams…regroup, refocus, move on!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
So when they do amazing like they did in week 1 (Party because of Jake) we can praise them as much as we want, but when they play horrible we cant state any negatives?
A negative - Our defense sucked this week.
You - Our LBs are the worst in the league and our entire secondary is overrated minus our pro-bowlers (which form half our secondary) and we don’t have any stars on the D-line besides Cole.
There is a difference between stating negatives and making ridiculous statements like yours. You made a lot of assumptions about them after week 2, the D was nasty in week 1 and it is hard not to praise them for what they managed to do against Jake and one of the game’s best rushing attacks. In week 2 against the games top passing attack they faltered but it is week 2 and I think the majority of us are expecting more performances like week 1 than week 2 in the future. Look at last year, it probably wasn’t until week 9 at Seattle when we established ourselves as a top defense and the core is still there.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Question to the OP
Can you explain your claim that our LB’s are the worst in the league?
Sheldon Brown hasn’t done much? He had two picks last week and did nothing wrong yesterday? What exactly are you looking for him to do? Return kicks?
Trent is a stud but you don’t see much else? Mike Patterson and Bunkley have played well, Abiamiri has been solid, Darren Howard has been solid. Again, what are you looking for?
My guess is that you have limited football knowledge, or you are basing everything on stats. But stats are not a good story teller in football. You may see a CB with 50 tackles on the year because no one ever throws to his side. I would love to hear my questions answered. And besides all that, it is week 2 of the season. Fans like you really make this site difficult to read sometimes.
Side note...
Akeem Jordan also looks very, very good. I like this kid a lot.
Bye, Big Stew and JJ :(
If you fail to realize that our LB’s are definitely the weakness of this team than you haven’t seen them. Sure they had a couple picks last game but again that was more Jake being bad than our D being great.
STOP BLAMING THE PANTHERS SCORE ON JAKE DELHOMME.
Jesus. Most QBs in this league aren’t Drew Brees. They’re Jake Delhomme. Or they’re a completely different QB.
I’m tired of the “Jake lost the Panthers game” meme. If we sat in Cover-2 against Jake… he’d of beat us through the air too. We backed off Brees and let him pick us apart.
by UnclaimedFright on Sep 21, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Our LB’s are clearly near the bottom of the league to me. Im going by play making ability and they lack it.
Again i admit Sheldon is a bright spot.
Im looking for the front four to get pressure without us having to blitz, and i dont see that at all.
You can attack my “football knowledge” all you want.
You leave it up for attack. The LB’s lack play making ability?
Akeem Jordan – 2 interceptions, 1 sack
You’re looking for our front four to get pressure without a blitz?
We are a blitzing defense, that has not changed in 11 years (arguably longer) and is not going to change anytime soon. That being said,
Trent Cole – 2 sacks
Darren Howard – 2 sacks
Juqua Parker – 1 sack
All of the above in the first two weeks. Your theories hold no water.
Akeem Jordan- 2 picks (Jake) Akeem did great, but it was against a bad quarterback on a worse day. I understand that they are a blitzing D, but we didn’t blitz against NO and we didnt get any pressure. Whats your theory on that?
Blitz
Brees has the best QB rating in the league against the blitz.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Can u clarify that?
You just keep repeating it, but for anyone who has watched the games, that is not the problem with our D. Cole’s sack yesterday was just a result of him blowing the Tackle off the ball. On the play where Parker was held, he simply beat his man off the ball. There are a dozen plays from yesterday where we got pressure on the QB without a blitz and Brees simply made the throws.
I'm sorry . . .
I was assuming you watched the game.
And no, I don’t think I am going to type out a play-by-play description of everytime we got pressure without blitzing.
Yeah, c'mon zoso...
Don’t you have the game tape all ready to go? You don’t have a full report of every single play the Eagles got some pressure?
Bye, Big Stew and JJ :(
you have no idea what ur talkin about… as much as i like Q and asante they got beat over and over again and u think sheldon is a weak point? he had 2 picks last week and got beat far less than asante yesterday and when ellis fumbles a kick return that doesnt make him a bad corner and as far as the linebackers i think theyv been pretty good omar gaither is playin better than expected and akeem is playin lights out. i think ur blaming the wrong ppl
by footballfreak20 on Sep 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
they were playing the #1 offense in the league.. give em a break
by footballfreak20 on Sep 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
they don't get a break
they’re supposed to be a top Defense. they should be able to stop a top offense. if they want to win the super bowl, they get no breaks.
really?
you think it’s ok that they let up 41 points because it’s week two? It’s never ok to let up 41 points, especially if they’re supposed to be a top defense
Thank you, i have a question for all you homers out there. What makes this defense as good as you guys make them to be? What do they bring thats so outstanding?
Did I say it was okay to give up 41 points?
Did I ask to be called a homer? I will put my football knowledge up against anyone on this board (former QB), and I would like to hear less rhetoric and panic and fingerpointing. Moradi I asked you specific questions further up, I challenge you to answer them intelligently.
Are you that insecure that you assume my comment was directed at you? It wasn’t, it was directed to everyone who just says this defense will be fine when really it doesn’t look that good, if were going to win this year our offense has to carry majority of the load.
Yeah I got it.
I was one of the ones that said our defense would be fine, and I also asked you several specific questions about your original post. Are you so insecure that you can’t answer them?
the team only gets a break cause it was week2
And…still…I think Don could’ve still outscored them…
Doesn’t excuse the penalties and the coverage however.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Sep 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, those penalties were inexcusable.
by UnclaimedFright on Sep 21, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats certainly a valid point, if we’re going to win the super bowl we are going to have to stop the best offenses in the nfl. no question about it. However, we have had really bad defensive games in the past and still consistently had one of the best defenses. We gave up 44 points against Dallas in week 2 and still finished 3rd overall, so i wouldn’t panic yet.
not panicing
just saying it’s ridiculous people are giving the defense a break and pinning the blame elsewhere. they failed yesterday. plain and simple.
The defense
lost the game for us yesterday, but that’s not to say there’s no potential…we’ll have bumps in the road with a new coordinator
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
No
but if we lose to the best offense week 2, and learn from our mistakes and get better because of it, then that’s okay
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Understandable, well see how this D handles teams such as the Giants(2), Chargers(Road), Falcons(Road).
?
how this D handles teams such as the Giants(2) …… :),Chargers(Road), Falcons(Road).
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I’m curious to see if our D is really as bad as yesterday, or if the Saints offense is just that good…our defense is still a test case…i just don’t know what to expect.
I’d like to see them learn, and fix the errors…hopefully they will
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
I hope so too, i was really looking forward to this year, and still am. I think well pull through, hopefully its not too late.
too late? do you realize that week 2 is only 11% into the season??? 89% to go. I think we can turn around this sinking ship…..but gee golly i guess we should go into rebuidling mode
by GreenInBaltimore on Sep 21, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
well they knew something week 1, seemed clueless week 2. i truly believe that our talent isnt going to allow this type of performance every week…but add an “off day” to facing the #1 offense isnt good ever!
by GreenInBaltimore on Sep 21, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
wow…week 2 too late.
c’mon man. What is too late? The team was in the NFC champ last year weren’t they?
You remember how the Eagles got in to the playoffs? Taking care of business in Week 17, and the frickin Raiders winning too.
Its never too late until the MATH says its too late.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 21, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I love math
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Obviously we’re playing against a top-rated internet troll right now.
by UnclaimedFright on Sep 21, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Weak Linebacker corp.???
Since when?!?? Everybody has been complaining about the lack of production from our linebackers these past few years. These last 2 weeks Akeem Jordan alone has made 2 interceptions and he and Gocong together have been making great open-field tackles and doing a great job blitzing and rushing the passer.
They were the #1 defense in the NFC last year when they gave up 40+ to Dallas. Bad games happen. They’ll get better. The guy that wrote this topic either is not an Eagles fan, never watches the Eagles, or is an idiot.
I am the people's troll :3™
I believe this douche bag is all three of the above. I find it HILARIOUS how people that ovbiously lack knowledge completly ignore any intelligent questions asked of them because they know they are unable to produce an intelligent answer.
Moradi818 , you are a fucking retard. Please, continue to repeat the same thing over and over again.
Last year, Steelers had the #1 defense. They allowed 31 points to the Tennessee Titans
Year before, Steelers had #1 defense. They allowed 31 points to Broncos and 34 points to Patriots.
2005, Bucs had the #1. They allowed 34 points to the Panthers.
It’s not uncommon for defenses to have very off days…relax, season’s young. Let the season roll out a bit before you throw the defense under the bus.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
we actually had more total yards than the Saints, we didn’t put it in the endzone when we were close 1-5 in the red zone as opposed to there 4-6. I’m okay with that with a young QB getting his first start.
The 7 penalties for 45 yards (Saints 3 for 13 yards) also killed us but the biggest thing was short fields. The INT sucked, the Hobbs fumble horrible, the shitty punts and coverage were horrendous. The Saints really didn’t have to move far to score, there longest drive was 74 yards for a TD at the beginning of the game the other scoring drives …
48 yards … FG
54 yards … TD
22 yards … TD
24 yards … TD
70 yards … FG
52 yards … TD
before the final minute of the game the turnover ratio was only 2:1 even though it ended up being 4:1 … this game was just frustrating and confusing.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Anyone else notice this?
I said this before on a different post:
This defensive scheme we used against the Saints seems oddly similar to the scheme made by Jimmy when we went against the Cowboys.
Both were week 2 games.
Maybe I’m thinking too much into this. But, hey, maybe McDermott’s just wanted to see how his D does when there’s little to no pressure involved.
ahhhh
very good sir, I see a parallel now only after you mentioned it, lack of pressure and aweful days for the defense/team. As I recall part of the problem was Considine seeing the field though which is almost as bad as kolb starting over McNabb.
#1 eagles fan in Canada as decided by a panel of jesus'
I'm a Leaf's fan... I like the flyers though (especially back in the day flyers)
by RadioheadbeatlesEagles on Sep 21, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it just me or is there a lot of personal attacks on this site?
by SouthPhilly215 on Sep 22, 2009 12:18 AM EDT reply actions
dude
are you going to say that on every post ..
by jack is better than asante on Sep 22, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You know what your right. Its a lost cause. Ef it right?
by SouthPhilly215 on Sep 22, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
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