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Bill Barnwell of Football Outsiders talks Eagles

Thumbnailimage_mediumEarlier this week, I had a chance to talk with Bill Barnwell of Football Outsiders about their new Football Outsiders Almanac 2009. Football Outsiders focuses on advanced statistical analysis of the NFL. If you've never heard of them, here's a good primer.  

If you're a hardcore football fan, I don't think there's a better reference than the Football Outsiders Almanac 2009.

We dissected a little bit of the Eagles 2008 season and looked ahead to 2009. I think you'll be surprised to hear an objective perspective on the Eagles' philosophy and some Eagle players.

Actually, until last night I thought this interview would be what Eagles fan were talking about this weekend...

Star-divide

The one stat in the book that really jumped out at me was that the Eagles only pass 5% more than the league average. What would your response be to the "Andy Reid needs to run the ball more" chorus that we hear so often as Eagles fans?

Well, I'd say that there are situations in which the Eagles would be better off running the ball more frequently, but on the whole, the team benefits from passing the ball. We take a very detailed look in Football Outsiders Almanac 2009 into the Eagles' playcalling tendencies, and compare them to the league average performance in each of those situations when running and passing the ball.

One situation that definitely stood out in 2008 was second-and-short (three yards or less). When Philly runs the ball in those situations, they pick up 4.1 yards per attempt; the league average is only 3.7 yards per attempt. When they throw the ball, though, despite the fact that they have the much-vaunted big play potential in those second-and-short situations, the Eagles averaged only 4.3 yards per attempt -- barely more than the running plays -- when the league average was 6.0 yards per attempt. They were also far less likely to pick up first downs in that situation when passing.


Stewart Bradley became the Eagles first major loss to injury this season. While he certainly played at a high level and was becoming very popular amongst fans, I always felt that he owed a lot to the play of Mike Patterson and Broderick Bunkley. Do you agree with that and how do you think the Eagles' defense will fare without Bradley?

I absolutely agree that Bradley's level of play had a lot to do with the performance of the two defensive tackles in front of him. Every middle linebacker's play, to an extent, is dictated by the players in front of him keeping blockers off him for as long as possible, but very few middle linebackers have such a great set of tackles in front of them. Philly had the second-best run defense in the league in the second half of 2008, and I felt like a lot of that had to do with Bunkley and Patterson beginning to just dominate opposing linemen as a combination.

Sticking with the linebackers... the book calls strong side LB Chris Gocong "probably the unit's best player." What is is that you guys saw in Gocong that made you feel that way?

Truthfully, the bar for Philly linebackers isn't that high. Gocong was great in pass coverage last year, as his pass defense metrics were superior to any of the other linebackers and ranked among the top linebackers in football. He was a sure tackler, and made his tackles closer to the line than any other one of the team's linebackers. Some of that is his role in the Eagles' scheme, but we've perceived him to be the most reliable of the team's starting linebackers.

We've had a lot of debate here on the blog and amongst all Eagles fans about TE Brent Celek. Some say he's a backup at best, some say the guy is a legit starting TE. Much of the optimism about Celek came from his incredibly strong end to the season and playoff run. Should Eagles fans take those last few games as a sign of what's to come, or should the team be looking to upgrade from Celek at some point?

Well, I think we can all agree on something: He can't be worse than L.J. Smith.

We've appreciated Celek for two years running now, placing him on the "Top 25 Prospects" list in our book. If the expectations for him are that he'll catch ten passes a game, well, he'll end up being a disappointment. A more reasonable expectation is that of a sure-handed receiver who isn't a great blocker, but offers a safety valve in the passing game and has no qualms about going over the middle or up the seam. If he had something like Chad Lewis' career from this point forward (although perhaps without the Pro Bowl selections), I think that might be a fair expectation.


The Eagles were at the top of your DVOA rankings for a good part of last season. Their struggles at certain points led a lot of people to question the rankings. Did you take the Eagles' postseason run as any kind of validation of your system? Piggybacking on that... you talk a lot about luck as it related to the Eagles last season. How much of a factor was luck on their actual record vs their DVOA rank?

I mean, yes and no. The line between success and failure in the NFL is remarkably slim. The Eagles' postseason run came, of course, after the Raiders beat the Buccaneers on the road in a 1:00 game without their best player, Nnamdi Asomugha, or anything to play for. If the Raiders lose that game, Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb probably aren't Eagles right now, and the team's rebuilding.

It's hard for me to justify saying that the Eagles were able to validate our system thanks to a playoff run that never really should have happened in the first place. On the other hand, 16 games isn't a huge sample. There was a really interesting study on pro-football-reference.com a couple of years ago that simulated the 2005 season 10,000 times based upon a set of win percentages that would be taken as each team's "true" talent level.

The idea was to figure out how often the true "best team" in the league -- as measured by that "true" win percentage  -- actually goes on to win the Super Bowl. The answer was about 30 percent of the time.

The reality is that variance can play a huge role in the course of winning one game, let alone a few out of 16. If the referees throw a flag for pass interference on fourth down of the final drive in the Eagles-Cardinals game, and the Eagles go down the field and promptly score, were they the better team? Were they the worse team because the refs didn't?

Our methodology is simple: Go play-by-play and figure out how a team does against the league average. If they play really well and put up good numbers, but don't win, we know that DVOA -- our core metric -- is a better indicator of wins in the subsequent season than wins themselves. Philly's playoff run was nice, and made the act of writing the Eagles' chapter way easier, but it didn't prove anything with regards to our numbers for me.


Finally, we talked a lot this offseason about sentimentality vs actual production as it related to Brian Dawkins. Would you have matched the 5 year $17 million deal the Broncos gave him if you were running the Eagles?

It's hard to say. They can afford it, certainly, considering the amount of cap space they usually have available. But if they were planning on phasing him out of the starting lineup anyway, would Dawkins have wanted to stay? Probably not.

I would've told him after the season that we were moving in a different direction, and that we'd love to have him as a third safety and coach on the field, offering him a deal commensurate with that role. That might have hurt, and it wouldn't have been the $17 million deal, but it would have given Dawkins the option to finish his career in Philly.

This interview just scratches the surface of what football outsiders has in the book in regards to not just the Eagles, but the entire NFL. If you're interested in the book, Football Outsiders Almanac 2009, click the link for more details on how you can get it.

2 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

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Michael Vick

What do you think the possibility is that Vick will eventually find a starting job with the Eagles at either QB, RB (Wildcat) or WR?

by Vick Fan on Aug 14, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

slim to none. stop thinking about it, stop talking about it.

by Bleediots on Aug 14, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vick fan why are you asking him that question… Did you not listen to andy reid last night. He wont be a “WILDCAT” or wide reciever or a running back he is a fucking QB dude… He is a 2 year project we will see what happens in two years, noone knows book or not…. but i promise you he wont be a running back or wide reciever and your a complete idiot for even suggesting that..

by Qu1nTeR on Aug 14, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you that ...

… suggestions that Vick be a full-time WR, RB or KOR are absurd.

But I most definitely think they are drawing up some sort of “Wildcat” package for him. First, they already run it with DeSean Jackson. Now they have a better arm and don’t risk their best WR when they do it.

Second, they line people up out of position all the time. Westbrook splits wide. They stand their tight ends up sometimes. They use reverse action. They’ll find something for Vick to do. My question is whether McNabb and Vick will be on the field at the same time. (true single wing?)

What’s the point of signing him if you can’t get him on the field … sometime after week 6 I guess? It’s a nice ace to have in the hole. Maybe midseason people kind of forget about Vick, or over the course of the game they are worrying about Westbrook, the passing game, etc, and then they bust out this personnel package:

Vick takes direct snap. Westbrook at his side. Jackson, Maclin and Curtis lined up at WR … not a whole lot of defenses have enough speed to avoid having some mismatches there.

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m just surprised they listed Gocong as the best linebacker. I guess it’s because I kind of never notice what he’s doing, except for when he screws up big.

I am the people's troll :3™

by yomjoseki on Aug 14, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought the Gocong thing was insightful ...

… but are you saying you really never notice him blowing up his blocker at the point of attack? There are a lot of run plays where he’s just getting up in it. But I agree with you to an extent. Since I can’t remember so much as a sack or a fumble recovery, I was lukewarm on Gocong just like everyone else.

He might not be a flashy big play dude, but there’s value in being solid. I always thought he was strong against the run. I was suprised to learn pass coverage was actually his forte.

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His pass coverage

It could just be that he did well in a small sample size. Hes not out there much on passing downs.

by philiafan14364 on Aug 15, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously...

I, for one, don’t give two spits about Vick, one way or the other. THANK YOU, JasonB, for pointing us to this article. Let’s get back to the team. Let’s get back to the Philadelphia Eagles.

by Bleediots on Aug 14, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is there any chance of Dawk coming back?

Like the year before he retires or anything?

"Goals are good. Plans are better." -Ben.

by Sabonis4Ever on Aug 14, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I kinda wish they would trade for him

or Denver would cut him. I don’t think that’s really logical, though, at least not this season.

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gocong is our best linebacker?

JIBTA is going to flip out…

RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.

by Imp on Aug 14, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His quote about DT's is spot on

Watch Ray Lewis when he didn’t have a Fat Siragusa, or a Haloti Gnata in front of him. Not nearly HOF material.

Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!

by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 14, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Heck yeah

that’s why they drafted Ngata as soon as all those great Ravens DLs retired. They had that one year where the D was pretty pedestrian, IIRC

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GIBTB

Gocong is better than Bradley… ?

by UnclaimedFright on Aug 14, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really do love this in-depth stuff.

Good look JasonB.

I’m gonna try to get the book and say I bought it because of BGN’s interview

Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome

by D3Keith on Aug 15, 2009 3:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks

That was a great read. Thank you for the interview. Keep up the great work.

Oh, I will certainly be getting my hands on that book soon.

by Znizzle on Aug 16, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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