Part 3 of 32 - New York Giants - "Do the Eagles have the potential to be THE dominant team of the next 3-5 years?"
by JimmyK on Jul 11, 2009 7:33 AM EDT
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Part 3 of 32 of "Do the Eagles have the potential to be THE dominant team of the next 3-5 years?"
I tweaked this a little bit... Previously, it was ""Do the Eagles have the potential to be THE dominant team of the next decade?" However, some of you noted that there's a ton of turnover in the NFL, so looking that far ahead makes little sense. I happen to agree, so let's just call it "the next 3-5 years."
Also, I'm adding a feature thhat will also look at fantasy football players to move up or down on your overall list.
Anyway, we move on the the Giants...
The Starters - Offense
QB - Eli Manning - 28
RB - Brandon Jacobs - 27
FB - Madison Hedgecock - 27
WR - Domenik Hixon - 24
WR - Steve Smith - 24
TE - Kevin Boss - 25
LT - David Diehl - 28
RG - Rich Seubert - 30
RG - Chris Snee - 27
RT - Kareem McKenzie - 30
Key Reserves - Offense
QB - David Carr - 29
RB - Ahmad Bradshaw - 23
RB - Andre Brown (rookie) - 22
WR - Hakeem Nicks (rookie) - 21
WR - Mario Manningham - 23
WR - Ramses Barden (rookie) - 23
WR - Sinorice Moss - 25
TE - Travis Beckum (rookie) - 23
T - Guy Whimper - 26
T - William Beatty (rookie) - 24
Average Age of Offensive Starters - 27.45 years old
Average Age of Offensive Reserves - 23.90 years old
WOW... I knew they had some young pieces in place, but I didn't realize this offense was this young. Here's a team that gets it.
The Giants like to pound the ball with their excellent offensive line, as well as Brandon Jacobs and Co (Yes, Giants fans, you'll miss Derrick Ward). However, to be effective in the run game, they need their wide receivers to at least command the kind of attention that will scare opposing defenses away from stuffing 8 in the box. I'm just not sold that Domenik Hixon and Steve Smith are good enough. Clearly, that's their weakness going into this season - They'll need Hakeem Nicks to show he has a fast learning curve.
But I'll say this... If as few as 2 of the 4 skill position guys they drafted (Hakeem Nicks, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, and Andre Brown) turn out to be players and they can continue to put young players in place to eventually take over for some of their aging offensive linemen (which they've begun to do with William Beatty), this offense is set up to be pretty scary entering the next decade.
Moving along...
The Defense - Starters
DE - Justin Tuck - 26
DT - Rocky Bernard - 30
DT - Chris Canty - 26
DE - Osi Umenyiora - 27
WLB - Michael Boley - 26
MLB - Antonio Pierce - 30
SLB - Danny Clark - 32
CB - Aaron Ross - 26
S - Michael Johnson - 25
S - Kenny Phillips - 22
CB - Corey Webster - 27
The Reserves - Defense
DE - Mathias Kiwanuka - 26
DE - Dave Tollefson - 27
DT - Barry Cofield - 25
DT - Fred Robbins - 32
DT - Jay Alford - 26
OLB - Clint Sintim - 23
OLB - Bryan Kehl - 25
MLB - Chase Blackburn - 26
CB - Kevin Dockery - 25
CB - Terrell Thomas - 24
S - CC Brown - 26
Average Age of Defensive Starters - 27.00 years old
Average Age of Defensive Reserves - 25.90 years old
Yup, this defense is nasty, specifically that defensive line, which goes 9 deep. Three starters are 30 or older, although it's expected that Clint Sintim will take over for Danny Clark in the near future. If I'm going to nitpick here, the Giants are in some trouble if any of their secondary players go down - I don't see a lot of solid depth there. But other than that, this defense is extremely talented, and they too are set up be a force for the foreseeable future.
Bonus fantasy football feature... "Move 'em up, move 'em down"
Move 'em up - Hakeem Nicks
If you can get him late, take a flyer on this guy. With rookies, there's the concern that they'll even play significant minutes their first year. But with Steve Smith and Domenik Hixon as the starting WR's, Nicks at some is going to have to play well for the Giants to have success on offense this year.
Move 'em down - Brandon Jacobs
With Derrick Ward gone, people are going to be falling all over themselves trying to draft Jacobs, with the thinking that he'll now also get Ward's carries. Don't be that guy. There's NO WAY the Giants are going to run this guy 25 times per game. He's an upright runner and huge target for defenders to hit (he has missed 8 games over the past 2 years), and the Giants will look to keep him fresh for their playoff run. Additionally, he had 15 touchdowns last year - Don't expect a repeat of that. When your buddy takes him in the first round, happily smirk knowing that not only did your friend completely sell out by drafting a Giant in the first round, he reached for him as well.
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Good analysis
I completely agree with the comment on our secondary, although I would guess we are better prepared at the corner than at the safeties. My question is, nobody thinks that Jacobs gets more carries, unless all three backups flameout, but why would you not expect him to get the same TDs? He will still get all the carries on the goal line and inside the ten.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Jul 11, 2009 7:52 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks...
My question is, nobody thinks that Jacobs gets more carries
That depends. Giants fans might not think so because they follow them closely (and they’d be right), but there are plenty of fans of other teams that’ll look at that situation and think “Ooh, Ward’s gone… It’s a one-RB system now. I gotta get Jacobs.” I’m just wrning people not to fall into that trap.
why would you not expect him to get the same TDs?
Well, the obvious answer is that 15 TD’s are a lot of TD’s, and even if you replayed the 2008 season, that would be extremely difficult to repeat. But the deeper answer is that I just don’t think he’ll have nearly as many scoring opportunities as he had last year. With the loss of Derrick Ward, Plaxico Burress, and Amani Toomer, this offense isn’t as good as it was last year, and their overall scoring should be down, which will affect Jacobs’ TD total.
i do
jacobs is a monster .. hes going to have his break out year
by jack is better than asante on Jul 17, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
giving Jacobs
more than 20 carries a game would be a huge mistake. the guy is a monster, but you can only take so many hits to the knees, and that’s basically the only way to bring him down. Ask Laron Landry, going high on Jacobs is a costly error.
And also
you left Danny Ware out of your RB depth chart. The coaches love this guy, and he has been a preseason warrior. He will get his chance at the big leagues this year.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Jul 11, 2009 7:53 AM EDT reply actions
these posts are great
and the age of the offense really surprised me also. the giants are clearly our toughest competition for the next 3-5 years. what teams do you plan on doing after the redskins (assuming that your doing the nfc east).
Very good
the gianys really seem to be very close to us in dominantion for the next 3-5 years. The pole is probably off though b/c of little to none giants fans on BGN. I think our OL is a little better b/c some of there key gys are in there 30’s
R.I.P, Air McNair
Eagles are sick but...
I cant agree with 75% majority. The G-Men are set to win championships now, Plax cost a great opportunity last year but with that Defense they will win 10 or more this year. By the way, Jacobs will be just as good my friends, Bradshaw will be very good as a backup RB and let me tell you, Danny Ware is an absolute problem. He could be a 2nd back on most teams and that is no joke, and hes the 3rd RB. And yea yea yea Eli isnt that great bla bla bla, heard it before. Kid is young, hes good under pressure, puts up good stats, and has won a Superbowl. Get over it, kids nasty.
I agree the Giants are great team, but...
Danny Ware is an absolute problem. He could be a 2nd back on most teams and that is no joke
You can tell all that by watching his 2 career NFL carries and some preseason games?
Get over it, kids nasty.
“Nasty” might the furthest thing that comes to mind when I think of Eli Manning.
eli is one of the most overrated qb's in the game right now
without plax he was decent at best and with plax i’d say he was above average.. how can you, as a giants fan, not watch your games and cringe every time eli lobs up another lame duck in a prayer that one of his own guys will come down with the ball. without plax, he has no one to bail him out anymore…. its his o-line that deserves all the credit for his one “great” success. yes, eli beat the pats. however, if it werent for the fact that hobbs blew the coverage/may have fallen down on that winning td and the play that set it up, the lucky tyree helmet catch (somewhat like our own fredex 4th and 26, which was not broken down or lucky.. except for maybe where the ref spotted the ball for us lol), manning would not be considered as a top 10 qb and wouldnt be looking at a ridiculously huge contract that WILL BE the crippling factor in the giants organization in the 3-5 years to come.. I know these contract rumors are making me smile
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 14, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions
I understand your point
But bitterness is not very becoming guys. You can rag on Eli all you want man, I want a QB who has wins. Yea whatever the Tyree catch, the ball to Plax where Hobbs fell down I have heard it all, but I can sit here and talk about the plays that WON us a Super Bowl and he was apart of it. How about all the other big plays he made in the Super Bowl for us, pass to Amani in the first half, Boss for 45 yards where he toasted Harrison, play action post to Tyree to take a lead, 2 TDS in the 4th Quarter, first QB to do that in the SB i mean go ahead and say what you will but Eli is a top 10 QB, yes his SB victory and MVP put him there but winning defines players in this league, its a fact.
And regarding Danny Ware, you can hate on him all you want. The kid has potential, you guys will soon see. Bye, Dawk so in ur opinion it only takes 3 years to validate a Running Back? when he was behind 3 extremely talented RB’s? Why do you think they didnt sign Derrick Ward man? Because they knew this kid has talent and he was expendable.
And regarding Danny Ware, you can hate on him all you want. The kid has potential, you guys will soon see. Bye, Dawk so in ur opinion it only takes 3 years to validate a Running Back? when he was behind 3 extremely talented RB’s? Why do you think they didnt sign Derrick Ward man? Because they knew this kid has talent and he was expendable.
Nobody’s “hating on” Danny Ware. Side note – Is there a more annoying phrase than anything involving any form of “hating?” It’s no worse than “Talk to the hand,” or “Oh no he didn’t!”
Anyway, the Giants let Ward walk because the Bucs overpaid for him (4 years, $17 mil). If they could have Ward at a more reasonable contract, you can bet your ass they’d rather have him than not. Plus, if Ware is the next Ward, why’d they draft Andre Brown in the 4th round? Maybe Ware can play, maybe he can’t. All I know is that I’m not going to need an underwear change because I’m worried about a guy that has 2 career carries in 2 full NFL seasons. “Oh snap!” “Fo shizzle!”
ppl rag on dawk all the time here
and i think its time people start giving more credit to dawk and start pointing out that rodney harrison should probably have retired either last year or the year before.. dawk can still be effective but harrison is just talk now, something he’s starting to do less and less as you’ll notice
as for the other plays.. they were legit. however, was this not the year belicheat was exposed? sure their offense was impeccable throughout the regular season but on the big stage (all speculation, mind you) could it be that they choked without the assurance that their d would “come up big” as they had from 2000 to the first game of the 06-07 season (belicheat era)? i dont know.. ill let you all decide but im pretty sure that if belicheat was uncovered the season of our superbowl loss you would have no argument against mcnabb who will hopefully (knock on wood) win his 1st (2nd* the barry bonds asterisk applied in a positive light here) ring this year
GO BIRDS!!!!
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 14, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome Post
You for sure are the man most definately. Ward did walk for a higher contract which is well documented, I’m pretty sure we all knew that and the Giants did make him an offer as a 2 Back, obviously they would rather a guy who has produced as a 2nd back then a guy who hasn’t(Bradshaw and Ware)I think thats clear. But we are not heartbroken about the loss either, Bradshaw was too good to be our 3rd, and Ware was too good to be our 4th on the roster. And regarding drafting Andre Brown, The Giants draft the best available, thats why Jerry Reese is a genius when it comes to the draft.
We had Strahan, Osi and Tuck and he drafted Kiwanuka now hes a stud in the making. Do you think they drafted Andre Brown because they think hes the back of the future? Or to give Danny Ware and Bradshaw some competition at the RB spot. And there is also something called injuries, you know its such a bad thing to have a 4th RB who fell way too far in the draft in case people get hurt. Good stuff tho, glad you are so knowledgeable about Giants football.
The Giants draft the best available, thats why Jerry Reese is a genius when it comes to the draft.
Totally disagree. Has Reese had an excellent track record drafting players? Absolutely. Do I think he had a great draft this year? He sure did. But does he just “draft the best available?” No! Every single one of the 5 players they drafted in rounds 1-3 this year were needs…
Round 1 – Hakeem Nicks – Filled a HUGE need at WR.
Round 2 – Clint Sintim – Will eventually replace the 32 year old Danny Clark.
Round 2 – William Beatty – Depth on the O Line was a need and he’ll eventually replace the 30 year old Kareem McKenzie.
Round 3 – Ramses Barden – Again, HUGE need at WR.
Round 3 – Travis Beckum – Basically no depth at TE – big need there.
I highly doubt the their draft board just happened to fall this way. They clearly were addressing needs. That’s what makes me wonder about what the Giants think of Danny Ware.
We had Strahan, Osi and Tuck and he drafted Kiwanuka now hes a stud in the making.
Yup, drafted Kiwanuka 3 years ago, when Strahan was 34 years old and Tuck had a grand total of 1 career sack. You could definitely call that “a need.”
Do you think they drafted Andre Brown because they think hes the back of the future? Or to give Danny Ware and Bradshaw some competition at the RB spot.
Competition? You don’t draft guys in the 4th round just to give “competition.” I mean, sure, competition is great anytime you draft a player, but 4th round picks are absolutely expected to make the team. Maybe Coughlin plans on keeping 4 running backs… Maybe not.
Good stuff tho, glad you are so knowledgeable about Giants football.
Thanks.
You seam knowledgable but your wrong on some account
For one, the WR is most obvious brother. You dont have to point that out, and I wasn’t saying every pick Jerry Reese has ever made in his life has been the best player available, I doubt we would be where we are if that was the case man.
But in some cases, like in the scenario when the Giants could have grabbed Santonio Holmes which at that time was a heavy need for us and he went with Kiwi(By the way Justin Tuck played in 14 games that season and had somewhere around 35 total tackles, a sack and a forced fumble; hardly a bad season for a rookie DE behind 2 studs), where every Giants fan(including myself) was upset he will take the best available. Beatty isnt a strong need for us at all hes definately a prospect but hes not moving ahead of any of our Tackles on the Depth Chart.
TE Beckum is a playmaker but hes 4th TE on the depth chart as well, Boss is our clear starter and Beckum is behind 2 others, Darcy Johnson and Michael Mathews who are both quite young(26 years old).
We might have to agree to disagree here but really other then the WRs we drafted there was not a strong need for another Tackle and 4th TE at all brother, and neither was the case for a 4th RB, but as I said he was very talented and in that spot we had no other choice. Same with Beatty, you realize when they are presented at that spot that maybe they wouldnt be a bad selection even tho we have plenty of players to play there. Good day.
Reese wasn’t the GM for the Kiwanuka draft. Even so, he’s nothing more than prospect still. If he explodes this season, then it’s a good pick. But he has to produce first. Just because you think he’s a stud, doesn’t mean much. They followed up that with the pick of Sinorce Moss, but everyone makes mistakes.
When going into the draft, good teams only need a few starters. Even after that you still have ‘needs’ based on where your depth is weakest or your staters are oldest.
Johnson and Matthews, aren’t good TEs. Because of that a lot of people said TE was a need for the Giants this draft (of which Beckum is mostly likely the number 2 TE). Your OL has no real depth. A lot of people had O-Line has a position of need. Just because they aren’t going to start week 1, doesn’t mean the team didn’t draft for need, and took the best available guy. Are you that ignorant, or just that dead set on backing up the Reese doesn’t draft for need thing?
Reese wasn't the GM
but he ran the last few Accorsi drafts. It was Reese who pushed hard to take Kiwanuka. So, technically he wasn’t the GM, but he was the reason the Giants drafted Kiwi.
Sintim
Yes Sintim as well you were correct about him. Other then Sintim, Ramses and Nicks tho I do not think we had a strong need for the other 3 guys you mentioned, they were more along the best available at that time selection.
For one, please use the ‘reply’ feature.
Two, Jerry Reese is not a genius. Definitely not at this point. He gets a lot of love because rookies all did something, usually minimal, the year they won it all. Aside from that fact, I’m not impressed, especially not the ‘genius’ level.
I heard multple times he’s so good because he takes best available and takes guys with a high floor over a potential high ceiling, which is clearly not the case for the Bomar and Barden picks this last draft.
For his first draft, Ross has been very underwhelming, especially for a 1st round pick. Smith looks to be a solid 2 type guy, which is about right for a 2nd round. Alford is a bad pick in the 3rd. DeOssie has yet to do anything. Boss is a good find in the 5th, but is just an average player right now. Johnson is a good pick for the round, but a below average starter. Same goes for Bradshaw, who gets the benefit of a great line and two better backs wearing down the defense.
Nobody from his last draft, exploded and became a star either. Its obviously possible but hasn’t happened.
It’s early to judge all his drafts, but I don’t know how you can be some kind of drafting genius, when you have drafted, to date, zero great players, and only found a few good values. Clearly, you love and trust just about all your prospects, but if you have to judge it currently, Reese hasn’t done anything that impressive. I think he did a good job, but a genius? Calm down.
gotta go wit fredex
i might can give you best available at that position but who doesnt atleast try to draft that way. Also calm down with the genius stuff if anyone is it is Coughlin and was Spags. Also who is Danny Ware? I didn’t know who he was until I joined this site and heard giant fans ranting about him. To touch on the Eli thing you can almost compare him to Jake Delhomme in a sense. Smart guy? Yes. Great QB? Not entirely. He is in a run first, play defense type scheme and if your run game is usually good and your defense holds up then all you really need is a smart game manager for a QB and one or two truely reliable recievers for third downs and play actions. Last year was his first full year with less than 17 ints and was his first year with less than 500 attempts. I’m jus saying he wouldnt last on a team that needed a true QB, he may prove me wrong in the future but i doubt it. If our run game falls apart we can still win and if ya’ll run game falls apart your fucked. But its the same thing vice versa.
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jul 15, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
read my comment above
Jerry Reese ran the last few drafts of the Accorsi era. According to most sources I’ve heard, the only pick that wasn’t at least influenced by Reese was Eli, who Accorsi was dead set on (I know that was technically a trade, but you get the point). Snee too, probably – if I had to guess that pick was all Coughlin.
If you look at the makeup of the current Giants roster, there’s actually not a ton of “Accorsi guys.” Eli, most of the O-line, and Osi. Other than that, it’s mostly Reese guys.
Ok, I knew that to an extent, it’s dicey when you don’t know who was behind who per se. Even still, you’re more excited about your prospects. Kiwanuka is not an elite player. As it stands, that not an impressive pick to me.
Webster and Tuck were good. Some will say Jacobs. I think that’s about it. I’ve never said Reese was bad, he’s one of the better drafters. But to call him a genius is completely absurd to me.
what
fred ex are u kidding me .. jacobs .. tuck was a steal .. kiwanuka was good value .. barden was good value .so was nicks .. sintim was a steal .. beatty was a steal .. bradshaw was good value .. webster was good .. kenny phillips is a young budding star … they have drafted very well .. i dont see any mcdougles or matt mccoys there
by jack is better than asante on Jul 17, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s calling the man a genius. I want a couple of elite players for that.
I like the Webster and Tuck picks a lot.
Jacobs is good for the round, but I don’t think he’s great over all. Same with Bradshaw.
Beatty is soft, and Barden has no real skills outside of his height. They both have the potential to be out of the league in 3 years. Can’t get credit for those picks, at least not yet.
Sintim was a 3-4 rusher, who now has to cover receivers with mediocre athleticism for the position and the stiff hips he displayed at the senior bowl.
what
jacobs is a top 5 rb in the nfl .. hes a beast .. and barden was the guy all the eagles fans wanted .. and they took him ..hes tall .. so he has potential .. and sintim is going to be a stud .. should of went in first round .. and is very athletic for a lb .. learn ur shit .. and this is the same beatty who was projected to go 28 to the eagles before we got peters .. so yea ..they draft a lil better than us
by jack is better than asante on Jul 18, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t get credit for a draft before that season starts.
For all any of us know Beatty is worse than Winston Justice. Barden is worse than Mike Williams, and Sintim is worse than McCoy.
The jury is still out (and will be for 3 or so years), You can’t go claiming all of those guys were amazing picks.
Being tall doesn’t make you a stud WR. Being wanted by Eagles fans doesn’t make you a good player either. Being tall AND wanted by Eagles fans? Nah, still not worth anything. He could be, but his other WR skill seem to be limited. He is very raw and boom or bust guy. If he booms, then its a good pick.
Sintim didn’t look he had good enough hips to be able turn and cover, something a 4-3 OLB is required to do. He has a straight line speed, something that helps him rush the passer, but if he has coverage responsibility, judging by senior bowl practice reports, he will struggle.
Beatty was slotted high more on need than his skill. He is often deemed as soft and is a potential one year wonder as well. Is he worth a shot where they got him? For sure. Is he a stud or a steal? Time will tell. He surely isn’t at the current moment.
Just because you like a player doesn’t make them flawless, or a should be 1st round pick, or a stud. A whole lot of people disagree with you on Brandon Jacobs. I know you have a hard on for him, but that doesn’t make it true. Was a good value? Yes. Does getting him and few more non-elite players make Reese some kind of genius? I don’t think so.
I never said we draft better, or that they had a bad draft. Claiming Reese is a genius is an overstatement, so I was pointing out the potential flaws of some of their draft choices. I don’t think he’s drafted any elite players to date, and doesn’t deserve all the slurping some people are giving him. I think he’s doing a fine job, but I felt like knocking an overstatement back down closer to reality.
Chris Snee?
Tuck, Osi, Webster, Snee? Webster may not be considered elite just yet, but I doubt you can come up with an argument that the others are not. Kiwi is a bit like Webster, he could break out this year.
Do you NEED more ""elite"" players on your team, or just very good parts that fill the team need? We’ve seen what ""elite"" players does for your team with the Cowboys right? Sometimes haveing 54 pro-bowlers on your roster means jack shit.
I mean is Reese a ""genius""’? I don’t know. But he hasn’t really drafted any busts in his GM tenure, and the main players he fought for to draft like Kiwi and Tuck turned out very good too.
But your 100% wrong that he hasn’t drafted any elite players, that’s just wrong.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 18, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Snee and Osi were not credited to Reese by a previous poster, that’s why I wasn’t including them. If he gets credit for those guys his stock takes a big a jump. I do think he’s one of the better of drafters. It’s the off season, so I felt like talking him down. To me, Tuck is his only ‘wow’ pick to date, with Webster soon approaching. He drafted a bunch of nice looking guys, but unless they pan out he he’s just a good drafter.
And I agree you don’t need multiple elite players to be a great team. But if you’re going to be the man as far as drafting goes, you’re going to need to find multiple big time players in my opinion.
OK...
but its guys like Michael Johnson, James Butler, Steve Smith, Boss, Diehl, even finding Dominik Hixon (regardless of how actually good he is, he came off the scrap heap essentially).
Ahmed Bradshaw (7th round) hasn’t shown much, but kinda like Jacobs for his first few years with Tiki still here, anyone who watches this guy with the rock knows there’s something there. Is he a star yet? No, but that’s why we wait 3-4 years to judge players, provided they are in the league.
I agree Tuck is a ‘wow’ pick, but I mean its hard to just go by one player like that cuz Tuck is quickly becoming the next Strahan, and that’s a big accomplishment.
I mean you look at Jacobs and where they got him, how is that not a steal? Is he the most complete back and injury prone so far? Yea, but when healthy is he the scariest RB in the league? Yup.
You look at the FA signings and nothing pops out, but what about Fred Robbins? He’s pretty damn good and was signed for a reasonable deal. Kawika Mitchell was a nice part too.
The Giants MO with Accorsi was never to sign a big name FA, cuz the odd time they decided to do that we got Lavaar Arrington (who was showing signs of being very good until that injury).
You can talk him down all you want. I never will call him a genius, cuz if he truly was then every 7th round pick would be an all-pro.
But he’s as good a drafter as any in the NFL. The Giants, along with teams like the Eagles, the Colts, the Patriots, the Steelers and the Ravens just know what they are doing on draft day.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 18, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Also as the full-time GM
this is his 3rd season anyway, so its really not like he’s had much time to judge.
He’s actually been more involved this offseason than any. This season’s moves, like the many skill position players drafted, to how guys like Canty, Bernard and Boley, all pan out will tell how much of a genius he is.
On paper, kinda like the Eagles, every single move he’s made this offseason gets fans excited for the season. I really can’t wait to play the Eagles this season and enjoy a good game.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 18, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree he’s doing a good possibly great job. Probably in the top 5, or if not one or two off. I also agree its too early to judge him. I was basically having some fun shooting down an overstatement, probably with some over statements of my own.
If someone logically like you came on and say he was very good/great I would have taken zero issue with it, and even agreed.
Some the genius claims, myths about him always drafting best available, or taking high floors guys, gets me in the mode to argue a little bit. Then when JIBTA tried to valadite those claims by point out mostly judge the post draft (the one we can judge the least) I got fired up once again.
He’s very good, but if you want to appoint him as a genius, I want several huge finds in the draft. That’s not fair to judge a GM, only fair in regards to the ‘genius’ claims, which was just one person.
Eagles and Giants appear to know what they are doing, and should make for some good match ups 2-3 times a year.
Is it the regular season yet?
you also have to factor in luck too
and partly the ignorance of some teams.
That guys like Tuck, Jacobs, even guys like Bradshaw or even Kenny Phillips fell to where they did had to be luck.
For guys like Jacobs, I mean who wouldn’t want a guy that big merely as a goal line back?
And since Notre Dame is on every single one of their games, how the hell did Tuck fall that far when anyone who watched those games saw dude was a beast?
And how the hell does the seemingly perfect starting safety for the next 10 years in Kenny Phillips fall right into your lap at 32?
So considering that luck plays such a big part in it, as does the incompetence of many teams drafting (ahem…Raiders…), there’s not much science in there to call him a genius.
And yea, I’ve been anticipating this season more than many, even the post SB year. Last season ending bad ( you bastards…), but this year has a lot of intrigue in it. Probably #1 on the list is beating the crap out of Jerry’s kids in his new house.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 19, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
well
u cant punish him for taking the best avalible players .. its smart .. beatty fell to him .. so did sintim .. it happens a lot .. maclin fell to the eagles .. so yea ppl fall .. if u pass on them .. aka moss .. sapp.. steven jackson .. well then u are not a genius .. which is what the eagles did .. they dont draft great .. they develop players well .. but they pass on big talent a lot
by jack is better than asante on Jul 20, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
great review
Compared to some half assed review up on BBV last week, you seem to get it. I agree about the secondary depth, which has always been a problem, but I think the big point you hit on, is that the Giants drafted 4 offensive weapons and if any of them steps up, there might not be a dominant receiver, but there could be plenty of good ones.
biased
once again eagles fans are always biased .. the giants d is the best in the nfl .. eli is a top 10 qb .. i got him at 9.. he won a superbowl .. how come brady is so good than .. out side of that one year he has had average stats .. big ben wins .. but his stats are not that good .. mcnabb stats are better but he doesnt win .. so its a win vs stats debate .. and i always pick stats because anyone can win a superbowl .. trent dilfer etc.. but brady is by far the most over rated qb out there .. it would be like saying bradshaw is better than marino .. no way in hell .. but he has the rings. . thats the case they always make for brady .. and if cassell sucks in kc .. doesnt that just prove brady is a product of the pats offense and bellicheck .. the best coach in nfl history .. i think so .. back to the giants .. jacobs is a stud at rb .. ware will be lucky to make the team .. and their wrs are too small .. i actually like mario manningham to have a pretty good year .. 500 yards and 5 tds .. smith is good but small .. hixon is boom or bust .. and barden and nicks are both rookies .. the giants and eagles are very close .. they have a better D and running game .. we have a better passing game and special teams .. so its a toss up
by jack is better than asante on Jul 17, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions
hilarious
you are calling Dawk biased and then you go on a rant about how Eli is a top-10 QB and TOM BRADY IS OVERRATED? That is one of the most ridiculous statements ever made. The guy won 3 Super Bowls and broke the single season touchdown record while going 16-0. He’s accomplished all this and he’s barely over 30. By the time he retires, he will most likely be considered the best quarterback to ever play the game. Overrated my ass.
is it out of the question to agree on the brady assessment?
and then completely disagree on the eli assessment?
i mean, if you factor in the fact that brady has had some of the best surrounding casts for years now and the whole cheating controversy.. is it really THAT out of the question to consider that brady is good because the pats cheated…. i think after this year we will all know the answer to this question (if cassel sucks and brady is average). he seems to make great throws when they count the most, however, could these throws have happened if the pats didnt know what the defense was planning on doing the next play and then take advantage of that fact by calling the perfect play to expose the weakness of the defense’s play?
eli on the other hand is as overrated as brady is, if not more… without plax he is nothing and his o-line gives him so much time that if he was any good at all, he’d surely be able to find someone open downfield at least 70% of the time (someone would have to get open, right? and if eli was any good at all he’d have to see that wr open and gun it to him, right?)…. without plax most of his passes stick to within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage (mostly hook routes that result in first downs after jacobs bludgens the d for the first two downs).. some of the passes he’s thrown over the years have been absolutely painful to watch float around in the air like a bird that can’t really fly but tries to do so anyways because flying is in it’s nature.. it should be fun as an eagles fan to watch eli suck so much but it must be bad when you’ve got an eagles fan complaining how bad an opposing qb’s throws are, especially when that qb is in the same division as your team.
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 20, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Part of the argument for Brady, as it pertains to Cassel:
Cassel stepped into a ridiculous offense with a maybe top 3 WR of all time a great underneath slot guy .
He did not step into a offense with the likes of Branch and Patten, the kind Brady won rings with.
yea, you're right
but branch was a stud in the pats’ system before he went to seattle, winning superbowl mvp honors against us in 04… also, i’ve been checking out the transition period (‘99-’01) and they really made a drastic change from ‘00 to ’01, the year brady took over the helm… the rosters don’t change all that much (barely at all), and yet almost every single player on their roster has an unexplainably better season… their rushing attack, which sucked in both ‘99 and ’00 (the year belichick takes over), all of a sudden produces a legitimate 1000 yd. rusher in antowain smith, of all people… not only that but their turnover differential sky rockets from a -2, in both ’99 and ’00, to a +7 (once again without much roster turnover/re-building going on at all)…… though you may be right about the receiver argument, it seems as if whoever gets plugged into the system, the pats wind up winning. and then when you have legitimate all-pro players, such as randy moss, plugged in you get tom brady throwing 50 td’s, winning mvp honors, and almost going undefeated (which would have happened if eli manning wasnt the luckiest, most-overrated qb ever, david tyree hadnt caught one of his lame duck throws on his helmet of all places, and ellis hobbs hadnt fallen flat on his face covering plaxico burress on that final td)
it just pains me so much to hear people praise tom brady so much when there is so much blatant evidence blemishing all of his accalades.. none of which the NFL, led by a pro-patriot goodell, will ever look into (as evidenced by his destruction of any evidence that could have reversed the path of nfl history in the last decade… this just shows that the nfl is covering it up in order to keep its reputation in tact so that it isnt viewed as corrupt and also that the nfl and goodell cant take responsibility for something it should have detected and dealt with much earlier on)
goodell is a bitch, brady is a fraud, and the belichick-led pats are a classless organization
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
o bs
peyton is soo much better ythan brady .. what a joke .. bradys carreer averages .. are well AVERAGE .. he had one good year with moss .. and then cassel comes in and performs well .. any qb can play in NE and be sucessful and win .. its not brady .. its bellicheck .. hes a genius .. big ben won 2 superbowls .. is he a great qb? deff not .. hes not bad. . but hes no peyton .. peyton is the best to ever play qb .. brady is not even top 5.. marino was better .. montana was .. favre deff was ..unitas was .. and prob even elway .. brady is not even top 10 in my book .. soo over rated .. u dont mesure people by rings .. rings are a team sport .. its like cole hamels vs roy halladay .. cole won a world series .. but is he an ace? no . . halladay never even won a playoff game .. is he an ace .. yep . . winning is not an individual acomplishment .. trent dilfer and brad johnson won superbowls .. are they better than mcnabb .. hell fuckin no .. brady is a product of the pats offense .. and when cassel sucks u will see that .. it proves that the pats are set up for anyone to be sucessful .. and one great season doesnt make tom brady elite
by jack is better than asante on Jul 20, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
but he and patten
had their best years in new england… and their numbers on other teams are just not even close (branch should be hitting his prime years now too, and yet, he’s still not doin shit)
im not saying these guys were good wide outs im just saying that something in new england randomly made them better when they were there….. MAYBE, it was the water
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 20, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
hey
im not with this guy .. the pats are a great team .. belliecheck is the best coach of all time .. cheating? enough of that bs .. everyone does that .. everyone tampers its life .. if your players dont make the plays to win thats your fault .. we lost that superbowl .. they didnt cheat us out of it .. we had our chance to win and we didnt capitalize .. so no .. you cant knock pats .. and brady is good .. but not elite .. cassel showed anyone can win n perform with those wrs .. and brady didnt do shit with branch and brown .. his numbers were no where near peytons .. so can u say if brady had better weapons he would of been better .. sure .. but he didnt .so his average numbers and than one explosive year dont add up to elite .. hes like big ben .. neither are elite .. but both are good enough to win superbowls .. peyton is the best ever
by jack is better than asante on Jul 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions
thats the point i was tryin to make
i guess i just phrased it incorrectly… im just sore on the pats ever since ’04, hence, my “cheating” argument… which i still believe in full-heartedly
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 20, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions
*Blinks*
This is an Eagles blog with a topic about the Giants, which leads to a discussion about the Patriots…
What the hell?
Moo.
hahaha
bs brady is not even the best qb .. hes just like big ben .. they are products of their offenses .. peyton is better .. brees is better . rivers puts up better stats .. cutler is more skilled .. warner is a sure fire hof .. and has much much better career averages than brady .. so why is warner .. two mvps .. highest passing yards per game i believe .. imma check that one .. a superbowl .. which is irrelivent in my mind .. cuz that doesnt mesure a player .. but the two mvps and stats do .. so warner is a top 10 qb of all time based on his numbers .. peyton might be the best ever right now .. favre is in that argument .. brady has had average numbers year in and year out .. one big year .. big deal .. rich gannon had a big year too .. so what .. peyton had a huge year too.. but his other years were all good ..he didnt consistanly put up all pro numbers .. so hes not even close to the best .. terry bradshaw has rings and isnt even close to being a top 10 qb .. so what does that ring argument prove .. people just like brady because of who he is and where he came from .. if he was a first round pick .. he wouldnt be as highly praised .. peyton is clearly better .. there is no argument . you dont punish a guy for having weapons around him .. maybe peyton makes harrison and clark .. if you reverse roles maybe branch is as good as harrison and ben watson is like clark .. but brady didnt make them great .. even tho watson was talented .. so was daniel graham .. clark is a product of manning .. so was stokely who didnt do shit in denver .. harrison cant even find a job now .. and gonzalez will step in and be just as good as him .. peyton is the x factor .. give him bradys weapons and they become great .. give brady harrison and he becomes derrick mason at best .. cassel is going to suck .. and prove that all the NE qbs are only good cuz bellicheck sets them up to win .. not because they are truly elite .. brady would have to have atleast 3 to 4 more seasons like peyton to be considered great. . and i dont see it .. right now he is not!
by jack is better than asante on Jul 20, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions
you should change your name
to jackass is better than ass
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jul 21, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
real mature
no one has given me statsto prove bradys good
by jack is better than asante on Jul 21, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
jus messin wit ya
But a 92.9 career rating is pretty convincing and I see what your saying about the system but Brady has never had a horrible year. I hate Brady but it cannot be denied the talent is there.
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jul 21, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
but how many of those years were better than manning? one? he had average years .. and one great one? do u agree?
by jack is better than asante on Jul 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
no one is saying he's better than Peyton
He’s the second best QB in the game right now, and maybe someone can argue Drew Brees is 2 and Brady 3, but Brees needs to win before that happens.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no
winning is a team sport .. marino never won and hes one of the best ever .. winning doesnt make u great … putting up probowl numbers every year does .. robert horry has like 6 rings .. is he better than AI .. a HOF and a dynamic scorer .. no way .. winning is about luck and being in the right place .. if you are drafted by a shitty team its not your fault ..
by jack is better than asante on Jul 21, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
you dont punish a guy for having weapons around him .. maybe peyton makes harrison and clark
The problem is the knife can cut both ways.
Maybe Brady made Bill Belichick the man he is. He was a below .500 head coach until Brady showed up. He won zero rings before Brady showed up. He only had one winning season before Brady. If Belichick was an already established, winning, top notch coach, it would be easier to argue Brady is part of a system.
It’s pretty hard to discredit Brady for the system and not even considering knocking on Peyton for having one of, if not the best set of weapons in the league.
me and jsballer got something going here hahaaaha
we should probably try to move this quarterback argument to here: http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009/7/6/940041/top-5-quarterback
there are some ridiculous arguments being made here but fredex makes a good point
by RIP26_litodoin'work on Jul 21, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
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