Part 2 of the 3 Part Series... Our Rivals' Strengths and Weaknesses - The New York Giants
by JimmyK on Jun 13, 2009 10:55 AM EDT
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PrintWe last looked at the strengths and weaknesses of the Dallas Cowboys (and there were plenty of weaknesses) - Today we look at the Giants - This one won't be nearly as fun to write as the Cowboys' analysis, because the Giants are loaded...
Strengths...
1) The Defensive Line
Ugh. It's the best D Line in football and it's not even close...
DE's
Osi Umenyiora - 2007 - 13 sacks, 5 FF
Mathias Kiwanuka - 8 sacks, 2 FF
Dave Tollefson - 3.5 sacks
DE/DT
Justin Tuck - 12 sacks, 3 FF
Chris Canty - 3 sacks
DT's
Rocky Bernard - 4 sacks, 1 FF
Barry Cofield - 3 sacks, 1 FF
Fred Robbins - 5.5 sacks
Jay Alford - 2.5 sacks
My biggest concern going into this season was how we were going to be able to block the Giants D Line, and for good reason. First of all, the star of this group is Justin Tuck, mainly for his versatility to excel at every position along the D Line. He stops the run, he can rush the passer outside, he can rush the passer inside, he's one of the most disruptive forces in the NFL - He's almost like a poor man's Reggie White (and I mean that as a compliment). I'll take it this far... If the Eagles had the option to steal any defensive player from one of our rivals, it wouldn't be a no-brainer to take Demarcus Ware - I'd give really strong consideration to Tuck.
Umenyiora tore his lateral meniscus (knee) last year during the preseason, but he is expected to recover fully and get back to his form in 2007 when he posted 13 sacks and 5 FF. Mathias Kiwanuka is another interesting player - They've tried him at LB and DE, and it finally looks like he has a permanent home at DE, working into their ridiculous DE rotation with Tuck and Umenyiora.
The Giants also signed 2 DT's this offseason - They grossly overpaid for one (Chris Canty, 6 years, $42 mil), but found an incredible bargain for another (Rocky Bernard, 4 years, $16 mil). Canty doesn't concern me whatsoever, but the guy to watch for here is Bernard. I was definitely a little jealous when the Giants signed him for only $4 mil per season.
2) The Offensive Line
To my delight in the 2004 draft Tom Coughlin drafted his future son in law, Chris Snee, in the 2nd round. It immediately gave me comedic fodder for my buddies who are Giants fans. I would paint a draft war room scenario in which Coughlin and his assistants were considering some stud skill position prospect, but had his daughter pleaded to him, "But daaaaadddddy, draft Chris!!! I love him!!!!!" with Coughlin eventually relenting and drafting his daughter's boyfriend, to the dismay of the other assistants. Oops - turns out Snee is one of the best interior lineman in the NFL, as is Shaun O'Hara. With David Diehl (a really nice overachiever that makes the most out of his physical skills), Rich Seubert, Kareem McKenzie, and I'll even throw in fullback Madison Hedgecock rounding out the rest of the line, this is one of the best units in the NFL.
3) The corners
Disturbing development from the Giants 2008 season... Corey Webster got A LOT better. With Webster and Aaron Ross working the corners for the next 4-5 years, the Giants are in good shape there.
4) The Crazy Bastard
You absolutely have to love watching some of the faces Tom Coughlin makes when things aren't going right for the G Men. He fines players for being on time for meetings, some of his players can't stand playing for him, and in a nutshell, he's just a crazy bastard. Buuuut, he never, I mean NEVER makes any glaring mistakes during the course of a game, he schemes well for his opponents, has a killer instinct, and gets the most out of his players. He's basically the anti-Wade Phillips, and if you're a Giants fan, that's definitely a good thing.
The Weaknesses (and I apologize to my fellow Eagles fans, but I could only find one glaring weakness)...
1) The WRs
Are there any Giants fans reading this? I need your help - Is Domenik Hixon your #1 receiver? I'm not asking to be a jerk... I legitimately really don't know. Is it Hixon? Is it Steve Smith? Is it a rookie (Nicks)? Anyway, Hixon is entering his 4th season - He didn't play in 2006, was released by the Broncos in 2007 and picked up by the Giants and was basically a kick returner, grabbing 1 catch for 5 yards. Last year, he put up decent but very unspectacular numbers (43 catches, 596 yards, 2 TD). Now, I'm not trying to say Hixon doesn't have a lot of talent, but I view him as a guy that's very much like Miles Austin... A nice role player that is going to see way too much playing time in 2009. Disclaimer - I'm contractually obligated to include this link when talking about Domenik Hixon... Linky. Our boy Hixon has his infamous drop at the :52 mark.
As for the rest of the group, I like Steve Smith a lot. He's 24, is a nice possession receiver, moves the chains, and made a bunch of plays during the Giants' Super Bowl run. He reminds me a lot of Jason Avant, but younger and better. Buuuut, is he an NFL starter? Hakeem Nicks was drafted in the first round, and is expected to start by the end of the season. The rest of this group, Mario Manningham and Sinorice Moss (moreso Moss), have been very disappointing (for Giants fans, not me) so far in their careers.
This is a HUGE weakness for the Giants. If Hixon, Smith, and Nicks prove to be what I feel is a bottom 5-10 WR corps in the NFL, not to mention a very average TE in Kevin Boss, are they going to be able to score with teams putting 8 in the box and daring Manning and the WRs to beat them?
Other concerns (neither strengths, nor weaknesses)...
1) The RBs
Make no mistake, Brandon Jacobs is a highlight reel of a player... Runs people over, scores a lot of TDs (15 last year), runs his mouth, and what he did to Laron Landry last year was just flat out mean. But you know what, as a COMPLETE running back, yup... the "O" word - Brandon Jacobs is WAAAAAY overrated. A couple quick questions...
Q - Has Brandon Jacobs ever reached 1,100 yards rushing in a season?
A - No.
Q - How many catches did Brandon Jacobs have last year?
A - 6. Yup... 6.
Q - Since he became a regular contributor to the offense, how many games has he missed?
A - 3 in 2008, 5 in 2007, 1 in 2006. He's a tall (6'4), upright runner and is going to absorb as many big shots as he dishes out.
Last year, you could easily make the argument that the running backs were among the biggest strengths on this team. This year, with the loss of Derrick Ward, you can argue it's a major concern. If Jacobs goes down for a couple games, can Ahmad Bradshaw, Danny Ware, and 4th round pick Andre Brown carry the load? If I'm a Giants fan, I sure as hell don't want to find out.
A lot is being made of the depth behind Brian Westbrook. I'm not so sure the Giants aren't in the same boat.
2) Eli "Aw shucks" Manning
Yeah, I know... he has a ring. Congrats, Eli. However, the Eli Manning that's freshest in my mind is the one I saw during the Giants' TWO losses to the Eagles at the Meadowlands, who was throwing passes that resembled the plastic bag in American Beauty. With the extremely questionable WR corps and an injury prone RB, can Eli put the Giants on his back and will them to win close games? We'll see.
3) The linebackers
Just like the Rocky Bernard signing, I was definitely jealous of the Michael Boley signing. He's a nice, young athletic linebacker, but there may be some adjustment s to make in the Giants complicated defensive scheme. The other 2 guys are question marks... Antonio Pierce will be 31 in October, and is slowing down considerably (I won't mention what Westbrook did to him... oops, nevermind), and Danny Clark is 32. They drafted Clint Sintim in the 2nd round, and if he's a player he could replace Clark by the end of the season.
4) The safeties
Maybe this is the wrong place to have the safeties, because they're not really "concerns." I'd call them "meh." Kenny Phillips and Michael Johnson aren't guys that are going to hurt the defense, but at the same time, neither has shown in their brief NFL careers that they're playmakers either. Phillips got his feet wet last year as a rookie, but didn't really make any plays (1 INT, 0 FF in 16 games). Ditto for third year player Michael Johnson (2 INT, 0 FF).
So that's it. The Giants are the clear-cut biggest threat to the Eagles, not just in the NFC East, but in the entire NFC. They are incredibly strong where it counts (the offensive and defensive lines), but there are legitimate questions marks elsewhere.
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I always imagine Eli saying “Come on, guuuuyyyyyss!” but “Aw, shucks” works too.
I am the people's troll :3™
all he has playin in his mind is, “the devil went down to georgia”….
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
who was throwimg passes that resembled the plastic bag in American Beauty
ahahahahahahahhahahah
well done.. good write up again.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
REC
Very fair assessment, the Giants are very good but do have holes.
rb
jacobs is a stength .. and bradshaw is better than mccoy at this point
by jack is better than asante on Jun 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
have you seen mccoy play?
no? no one has really except select media & coaches so how can you compare him to any one else? he could end up being the next Adrien Peterson or the next Cadillac Williams, you never know.
by sports00fan00 on Jun 16, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea exactly you don’t know. He also could be the biggest bust in NFL history. Bradshaw has actually taken snaps in the NFL and has done decently, so at the moment, he is better. This is just because Mccoy hasn’t played yet.
Thats like saying, how can anyone argue with JIBTA about asante being better than jack when jack hasn’t played yet. He could be the greatest corner of all time.
then there is NO arguement
not bradshaw > mccoy
or jack > asante
we won’t know till the season starts
but asante is a one of the top 5 corners in the league, the probablitiy of jack>asante is 10x smaller than the chance mccoy>bradshaw
by sports00fan00 on Jun 19, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
BIBTMc????
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on Jun 16, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LOLzzZZzz
That was funny.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 17, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, just standing back and reading posts, you guys talk a lot of shit. How can you give any credit to a player that hasn’t taken a snap yet? Bradshaw has, and until Mccoy gets on the field and does better, you cant automatically said hes better.
At this moment, Bradshaw is better.
Not talking shit. You are just losing your hair over Trivial bullshit.
I don’t think I could compare an NFL back to a college back.
I could compare thier college years… Thats about it.
Two totally different levels of play and demand.
You read one fan post and assume it’s the majority, that my friend is comical,
so why not laugh.
I try and wear life like a loose garment, but you my friend….
got on some ugly high heels.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
okay after reading the end of your post…..bgn stands for bleeding green nation, not being gay nation, right?
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 18, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t tell if that was a pot shot at me for telling him to chill out or if you were adding a color commentary to be silly. :)
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahaha…it was meant for amusement….to your…
“I try and wear life like a loose garment, but you my friend….
got on some ugly high heels "
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 18, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh yes…
I was my metaphor for him being up-tight. (High-Heels)
I love how well text translates into emotion and inflection.(NOT)
I wonder what Jibta looks like BTW…..
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, its funnier to picture him as someone who likes smeagol based on his posts. the real thing might ruin that.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 18, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
it wasn’t so much the high heels…it was that it came after you said you wear a “loose garment”…i.e. a dress, and called the heels ugly.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 18, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
AAAAAHHHHHH…
Epiphany moment
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yah…you’re so deep in the closet, you’re finding christmas presents.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at you getting all defensive like I singled you out.
It was a general observation that I noticed happens all too often on here.
Its one thing to be proud and support your team, its another thing to be ignorant.
People use one premise to refute one claim, and then use the same premise to defend their own.
So before you get your panties into a twist, I wasn’t calling anyone out specifically
Regardless they are still generalizations.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Speculation is always going work like this, all based on opinion. If you like a certain young talent he’s a star in the making, if you don’t like them, they will never be good in the NFL (and won’t receive credit until they can fully prove they are one). With discussions and debates going on, it’s almost impossible to be consistent and objective and not use perceived talent and speculate.
While it may it may look foolish to be using the same premise to refute one and thing and support an other, it looks just as, if not more foolish to say some random career back who has taken snaps and accumulated stats is better than stud 1st rounder. I was of the belief that Jake Long was going to better than Winston Justice, that Patrick Willis was going to be better than Matt McCoy, and that Calvin Johnson was better than Freddie Mitchell. I know these all are ridiculous, but the current player had stats, had taken snaps in the NFL, and are in theory better if we’re not going to speculate.
It’s speculation and will never stop. Since no one truly knows how each player is going to handle the college to pro transition, and we’d have basically nothing to talk about if everyone decided to just wait and see.
Jack was suppose to be a first round talent so why is claiming jack is better than asante any different?
It’s really not. That’s his opinion, just like I had mine. Asante is hands down the best player out of my examples, a proven legit player, and not just a role player, but that doesn’t mean JIBTA isn’t allowed to do it. People will think its foolish, and attack him for that, but I’m sure that was expected, even by JIBTA. And JIBTA has multiple times stated it’s not a serious a statement, and at least for the time being isn’t true.
I don’t rail on JIBTA all the time, I don’t insult him for the sake of insulting him, I don’t try to say his arguments hold no water because of his name. When he says I disagree with, I express my opinion and where applicable I use to stats to prove my point.
To run a sports with blog without strong opinions and/or speculation is impossible.
One more thing
One more weakness or question mark is that they lost Spags.. That could be huge.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
It really could be
but unlike when Spags got here, the team is staying with the same scheme. Same players, same gameplan relatively on defense.
I disagree that you call it a weakness right now. Its definitely a concern tho.
If they brought in a different coordinator, like say a Dom Capers like was thought of at one point, THEN it would be a ’giant" concern, cuz switching scheme and coordinator is much worse than just swithcing coordinators.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 13, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And to add, but first
Once again, well done Bye Dawk. Reasonable and fair, cool!
Now, with Sheridan, it would be fair to consider this a concern. Afterall, this will be his first opportunity to run a D. Another concern, he’ll be doing it in the booth, how will that work? Overall though, this was an in-house promotion and he know’s the scheme and players. So the transition should be smoother, unlike what FreeBradshaw pointed to, an entirely different DC!
He is going to install a few personal wrinkles to it too, so we’ll have to see how it goes!
Anyway, now that I’ve read the article, I can’t agree that Eli is a weakness. At his worst, he’s bad, but there’s no QBs in the league that are playing to potential all the time (Golden boy Tom Brady is as close as they get). We tend to remember the meltdowns more than the good performances from Eli, but more often than not, he’s a good enough of a QB to direct their offense. I’m not saying he’s great, but he definitely works in their offense well as, first, a game manager but also occasionally, a playmaker. Another annoying thing about Eli the past few years is that he seems to be a better clutch QB than regular QB.
I don’t believe RB is really a weakness for them, either. Brandon Jacobs is a Sherman tank and anyone running behind that o-line after Brandon Jacobs mowed the defense down a few times will be effective. Derrick Ward is not that great of a RB. They’ll be fine with Bradshaw and whoever else becomes their 3rd RB (looking at you, Danny Ware).
Basically, the only way I see the Giants really being anything worse than an 11-12 win team is if they’re unable to deal with opposing defenses stocking up to stop the run every play.
I don’t think they have the replacement for Plaxico, who kept defenses from stacking the box. During Burress’s absence, it seemed like Eli was ineffective and the running game was manageable instead of unstoppable.
However, I feel as though we improved more than the Giants did this year, and we already took two games from them (including the most important game between us). So the division is definitely within reach.
I am the people's troll :3™
Just to be clear...
I agree with you, and I didn’t list them as weaknesses – they’re listed as “other concerns.”
I would consider...
Their whole secondary a weakness. Their safeties and cornerbacks are average except Webster. Maybe even QB. There is no way in hell Eli Manning is going to have an 86.4 QB rating this year. He averaged like a 70 QB rating his previous 4 years. Losing Burress the second half exposed him. 3 games with QB rating over 85. 5 games with QB rating below 82 . The running game taking a hit doesn’t help either. David Carr is their back up. nuff said.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
I will say
Giants DO have one of the best run blocking lines, so they could have a C average player in there and he could produce. In all honesty, I think their line makes Jacobs and Ward look a LOT better than they really are. Jacobs can’t catch or cut back, if there’s not a decent hole there a lot of the time he will do nothing with it. It just so happens half the plays he wasn’t even touched until 2 yards past the LOS.. In that case he’ll take that for an exttra 3-5 yards.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
For what Jacobs lacks in agility, his vision does seem to be there?
Jacobs can’t catch or cut back
Really, what can you expect from a 6-5, 260+lbs guy? But, just imagine what he could be like if he had Barry Sanders like moves? That really wouldn’t be fair! lol
I know it’s “one” play, but after seeing that fine footage that Bye Dawk has provided (poor LaRon), Jacobs did scoot upfield fairly well, (for a big guy). Now i don’t know if the play was designed for the perimeter, as Toomer couldn’t block the CB crashing down (credit for the read) but Jacobs did read it and LaRon paid for it!
If Toomer would’ve held his ground/block, that probably would have been a massive gain, moreso than what really happened. Just an observation!
For he does (run with power) he's the best in the game.
If he had Barry Sanders like moves it really would be unfair lol.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Good post
Overall a pretty good assessment of the G men.
I think you underestimate Jacobs. Saying that he’s never run for 1100 yards is kind of meaningless. In his two years as a starter he’s rushed for 1,089 and 1009 yards in 2007 he did that in 11 games and in 2008 he did it in thirteen. Meanwhile, even in the games he plays he averages about 17-18 carries a game because the giants were giving plenty of carries to Ward and Bradshaw. He’s average 5 yards a carry for 2 years now, despite the fact that he’s the primary back in goal line and other short yardage situations. He is one dimensional, but it’s a pretty good dimension. Biggest rap on Jacobs is durability.
Like Joe D says, you can argue about whether its Jacobs or the line, but either way I’m gonna worry every time he gets into our secondary and Demps or Samuel have to try to tackle him.
How this team does is all up to Eli. If he can’t play better than he did down the stretch, teams can load up against the running game and the Giants offense could be down quite a bit. I agree that the Giants receivers aren’t stars but they were open quite a bit in the playoff game. Manning just rag armed the ball, so I see him as the problem more than them.
Their secondary may be a little better than you think too. Phillips may well develop into more of a playmaker and Terrell Thomas may push Ross out of the starting spot, because Ross just isn’t that good yet.
Secondary could be good, but it definitely belongs as a concern. Webster is your only proven commodity. Its possibly the other 3 starters do well, but you don’t want to go into a season with 3 question marks in the secondary if you can help it. I think Phillips has a good shot eventually get there, although maybe not this season. Not sold on Ross and Thomas, definitely not yet anyway.
Durability will be huge for Jacobs. With Ward and Bradshaw limited his carries to that 17ish a game, and still getting hurt two consecutive years doesn’t bode well if he needs to carry more of the load.
Webster's not my commodity
I’m an Eagles fan. You’re definitely right that Thomas hasn’t proven anything yet, but I think he has some potential. Ross gets a lot of publicity, but I agree he isn’t all that good. I don’t see Phillips and Johnson as question marks. They’re average players who may improve. With that D-line they may not have to cover for very long.
Yeah, I meant ‘your’ as in the Giants, I read your post, know your an Eagles fan, sorry. Almost all those guys have potential, but Webster is the only one who really showed it. And yeah, just as the O-Line makes the RBs look better, that D-Line definitely makes the secondary look better.
I guess ‘question mark’ doesn’t really work. I think you know Johnson is going to be average. Phillips did play well enough, and should get better. Not sure if Johnson will, but its definitely possible.
Them new york football giants
I have to say is a pretty fundalmentally sound team. I have nothing else to say but Eli will be your downfall. I say Giants make it as a wild card wit 10-6
Shouldve took Rivers
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jun 13, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions
why Rivers?
His arm is weaker than Eli’s. His throws would barely make it 10 yards in the wind tunnel.
Now if you said should have took Roethlisburger…..
Im still OK with a SB MVP winning QB, regardless of any arguments as to why he shouldn’t have won it.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate Rivers
but he is better than Eli say what you want about a super bowl. Rivers career rating is 92.9 and Eli’s is 76.1 and yeah you can call big ben an upgrade from eli too.
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jun 14, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivers plays in San Diego
I know Eli could be there if he wanted to, but still the fact he plays in San Diego means year round and if they get home field, he will always be able to pass without worrying about the hurricane conditions that Eli does.
I don’t know if Eli would be as good with the same conditions as Rivers, but that’s the reason why Rivers is able to pass better.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, come on. Seriously?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760/splits?year=career
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6763/splits?year=career
It has nothing to do with the Meadowlands, Eli is an average QB wherever he’s at.
I am the people's troll :3™
Im not talking about McNabb
he has a stronger arm and throws a tight spiral. I don’t doubt McNabb would succeed wherever he goes. Why the hell would you even bring him up?
I think you actually proved me right with your little stats. Look at Eli’s stats indoors and against the NFC and AFC West. Look at them in September, when NY is warmer as well as the other NFC Beast spots. Much better, so you really just proved yourself wrong.
I can’t see what you trying to prove. Rivers plays in warm weather for 8 games in San Diego, and in Oakland that’s another warm weather spot so that’s 9 games a year in warm weather.
That’s why Rivers has all the passing stats. He can air it out year round. He’s OK in cold temperatures, but has never played in the Beast. He played the AFC East, but they played NE in October and the Jets in September (plus they are the Jets so that doesn’t matter).
Simply wrong on this. I have no doubt that if Eli played in San Diego that he’d have much better stats.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, how about Eli’s career passer rating when it’s warm?
78. Look at how much of an improvement that is over his career rating of 76. Oh, wait.
Philip Rivers in the cold? 81. Wind? 87.
Eli in the cold? 66. Wind? 58.
And you bring up the division he plays in as an argument, but Rivers hasn’t even played that great against Oakland or KC!! His career passer rating against those two teams is 81 and 73, respectively. Sure, he rocks Denver when he plays them, but you obviously didn’t scan those charts that well. Rivers is consistently better in almost every single category.
Hell, even the year when they won the Superbowl, he was an average QB and didn’t get good until the postseason. Face it, the dude’s a fluke. Just be happy you got the Superbowl ring, because you won’t be getting another one unless Brandon Jacobs runs for 3,000 yards.
I am the people's troll :3™
eli
eli is better than rivers .. rivers has gates .. give manning a real TE not that pussy shockey who didnt play up to his potential .or kevin boss .. whos not a top tier te by any stretch .. that security blanket makes you better
by jack is better than asante on Jun 15, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree having a legit TE definitely helps. I still think Rivers is better however.
It tough trying to balance out who helps who. Jacobs, is in your opinion is a top 2 back, but he benefits from at least a top 3 run blocking line, however Rivers is discredited, at least to an extent, because he has a top tier TE.
I realize is tough to make that distinction of how important one is to the other, but I don’t like. And that’s mainly because I disagree.
You cant use a TE bailout...
When Eli made his living getting his ass saved by Burress.
by IgglesFanDeployd on Jun 15, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
give Rivers Plaxico
& we’ll see what happens
by sports00fan00 on Jun 15, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
rivers
he always underachieves .. he has chambers gate jackson lt and he still cant win
by jack is better than asante on Jun 15, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
“I have nothing worthwhile to say as a rebuttal, so I’m going to pretend I’m casually disregarding your sound, logical argument.”
I am the people's troll :3™
...
I actually didn’t even know I typed that.
I was pressing ’z" to move down and check out the new comments.
I wasn’t going to respond, but still Eli has his best QB ratings (horrible stat BTW) indoors and against the NFC and AFC West.
Im not talking about Rivers, but he hasn’t even played the NFC Beast yet, let alone any of the AFC east teams in winter.
Rivers has better stats, but its cuz he plays 9 games in California guaranteed every year.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 15, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
BUT you can’t seriously attribute his better stats to the freaking weather. Come on, dude. Philip Rivers’ stats in BAD WEATHER are better than Eli’s in GOOD weather. Give me a break.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Jun 15, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, and if they were truly “hurricane conditions”, why were McNabb’s passes zippy?
I am the people's troll :3™
blame the chargers
for Rivers problems Marty wouldve gotten them to the bowl but they pulled a tampa bay and fired a good coach that made a good team and im not sayin norv is a bad coach but he benefited from a team marty built
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jun 15, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I DONT THINK SO GINTS
this will be a joke if the birds stay healthy there is NO reason why they wont sweep the gints. The main thing that REALLY UPSETS ME IS DAWKINS WONT BE WITH US WHEN WE BRING THE LOMBARDI TROPHY HOME. THINK ABOUT IT FELLOW EAGLE FANS HOW BITTER SWEET IS IT GOING 2 BE WHEN WE WIN THE SUPERBOWL AND DAWKINS ISNT GOIN 2 BE THE MAIN GUY ON THE PODIUM. OH WELL ILL STILL TAKE.
DL
Well the colts...
sent edge a ring even tho he had left the team the year before I dont see why the eagles wouldnt do that
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Jun 14, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
what
fuck him .. he left for more money .. so i wouldnt send him a ring he didnt win .. thats bs
by jack is better than asante on Jun 19, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
jibta...
he would be a fool to not leave for that kind of money. show some respect for christ’s sake. you claim to be an eagles fan, act the part. we got where we are on his back.
what
why do i have to? i loved be dawk .. but hes not in his prime anymore .. and he left us .. by choice .. for money he prob will never see half of.. he could of stayed here on a respectable 2 year deal and retired as a life time eagle .. he left .. so i dont care .. trotter was the man for years . and he left for money .. didnt work out .. and he came back .. the grass isnt always greener on the other side .. and dawkins wil have a terrible season .. their d blows .. he needs JJ to make him a superstar .. JJ makes players .. just look at trotter
by jack is better than asante on Jun 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
or JJ
knows how to use players, dawk left b/c he knew he was almost done & Denver gave him more guarenteed money. he’s not gonna come back like Trotter
by sports00fan00 on Jun 21, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He still sold out for money...
Whatever way you look at it, no matter how obvious the choice is, money wise, the decision was Eagles or money, and he chose money. I loved Dawk as much as any other Eagles fan, but it did catch me off surprise when he left the Eagles for money, no matter how much was offered. Do you really think he will be tight with money after he retires/is gone?
It amazed me that the Eagles didnt do more to keep him.
His monetary value includes more than what he brings to the field. Guys like him bring alot to the locker room and to younger players. He has lost a step doesnt make as many plays as he once had but he makes key plays and allows the players around him top make more. Look I hated the guy and glad he is gone but he came to play every week.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the goverment from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
His monetary value includes more than what he brings to the field. Guys like him bring alot to the locker room and to younger players.
Meh … it’s become less and less true every year, the younger guys have started to step up and make this team theirs.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
I think the reason Cowboy fans are skeptical(hopeful) is because of how much
Roy Williams game fell off when Darren Woodsen retired. Roy played beeter then because Woodson had his back, put him in the right position and reminded him of his keys. Roy didnt have to think as much and cut loose. Of course this is all speculation on our (fans) part.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the goverment from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
You know, not everyone can play beeter.
Need to proof read a little more. better
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the goverment from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Two points real fast....
A) I don’t think it is irrational to think the G-mens front 5 are as good as the Denver blocking scheme Shanahan used to have out there. Remember all those years when no name backs came into Denver and did amazing things because of the sheme? I can see that in NY, but I do think that Ware+ Bradshaw+ Brown = Ward and not Ware = Ward of anything of that nature.
B) I think one day Phillips will be mention in the same breath as some very good safeties in this league. Last year he wasn’t flashy but he was consistent and always getting better.
Thats the best I can do for NY. As an Birds fan that broke my heart to give compliments but those are my two cents on the topic.
by IgglesFanDeployd on Jun 14, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions
Phillips
I don’t think he’s ever gonna be a ball hawk, but he can hit with the best of them. If he can just be a decent cover safety, his tackling abilities will make him a very good safety in the NFL.
where have we heard that before cough Roy Williams cough
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
Phillips really isn't a Roy Williams type tho
he’s actually pretty fast and Williams weighed at least 25lbs more than Phillips.
Phillips had some lapses in coverage, but no where near Roy Willams’ gaffes. Actually Phillips is pretty good in coverage. I don’t think he’s got the natural instincts of Ed Reed, but for Phillips to be a small and a bit faster version of Sean Taylor (RIP) is not out of the question.
It is only year 2 and Phillips really didn’t even start as Ed Reed did right away. Again, not comparing to Ed Reed, but I’ll say Phillips really takes a big step this season.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
he very well may improve. I was just making light of cjmulrain’s observation that he a safety who only needs to be decent at coverage because he hits hard.
Still, he doesn’t scare me and I think teams are gonna tend to pick on him when throwing the long ball.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
Great work
There’s really nothing here I disagree with. Personally I think the running game will be fine w/o Ward (I’m actually working on a post that will be on BBV sometime next week addressing that), but until we see for sure I think you’d have to say it’s certainly a question mark right now.
good post
I just can’t see the giants winning now that we have an awsome offensive line and without plax did u see Eli’s #’s without plax not good and they cant pass rush that well
Huh???
they cant pass rush that well
They were 6th in the NFL with 42 sacks last year. Without Osi. Don’t know how you can say they don’t pass rush well. Their D-line is probably their biggest asset.
by Iggles Fan 4 Life on Jun 15, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
the ONLY team
that our pass rush struggled against was the Eagles, and I think a big part of that was b/c of McNabb’s shiftiness and Westbrook’s ability to pick up the rush. You O-line has been upgraded, but our rush D has been upgraded as well – either way that’s 2 out of 16 games where the pass rush might not dominate.
No game is a given in the NFL, especially one between two teams as good as ours. I look forward to the matchup and hope the Eagles win, but no one can sit here and say definitively one team is significantly better than the other. The only thing that I will say is that I think the Giants offense may be one-dimensional if Eli can’t get it going without Plax around.
I am the people's troll :3™
I think if the Giants fail to get thier passing game moving, we will do really well against them. Bradshaw has dynamic potential as a screen threat as well I think he is a great runner, but I think our run D matches up well if they are 1 dimensional as proven in the past. Should be a great battle, with these two team jockeying for 1st in the NFC. Just how I see it. Cowboys and Skins left in the dust.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 15, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions
I'm looking forward...
…to the feeding frenzy that are the Washington Redskins. I don’t care if they did sweep us last year, thats a team that will start strong and then implode somewhere along the way.
by TransplantedFan on Jun 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
well
the beat us two times .. have a great defense.. but cambell holds them back .. if they got cutler they would be better than us.. thank god they didnt .. but haynesworth and orpako added to one of the most under rated lb in fletcher good corners and a true stud saftey in landry and the skins have a pretty sick D
by jack is better than asante on Jun 15, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions
Landry
If you have the time to look up Landry’s stats they actually aren’t very good. I read a post on Hogs Haven the other day where someone posted them, and I was very surprised that he hasn’t lived up to the hype at all, ever since Mr. Taylor passed on he has played like garbarge. Just an FYI.
Oh, and while I am at it, I should go ahead and defend my defense. Although I would probably still rank us last in our division, based purely on the facts, you can look at our defensive ranking and numbers after Philips took over the play calling and see that we ranked up near the top of the league for the last half of the season. The D should only get better with a whole off-season of Philips completely hands on and the replacement of the old/slow Anthony Henry and the safety aptly nicknamed Thong.
I would rank the defenses Redskins, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, with the last three being much closer than you would like to think.
First to six!!!
-30
ever since Mr. Taylor passed on [Landry] has played like garbarge. Just an FYI.
You mean the ONE season he’s played since 21 died?! While coming off an injury and playing beside a rookie (Chris Horton)?!? Gimme an effin’ break…
RAK EM UP!
I guess I will
look up the stats now to defend what I read over on your blog. First it has been 22 games, almost a season and a half of his two seasons in the league. Safe to say a majority, right?
There are 45 Safties in the league last year with more tackles than Landry (only 65), 22 of which are listed at FS which is where Landry is listed. He only had 2 interceptions last year, ranking him behind 20 other safties and 8 FS. And that rookie (Chris Horton) out played Landry last year, posting 76 tackles and 3 interceptions.
I am not quite sure where I am supposed to be giving you “an effin’ break…” ? Landry has not at all lived up to his billing and has been outplayed by almost every safety in this division.
First to six!!!
Safety stats?
Are tackles and INTs really the benchmark of a safety’s value? Or simply a reflection of someone else not doing their job? A safety acts, essentially, as a ‘safety-net’ for the corners and LBs in case they get burned. Landry is a deterrent against the pass and his presence keeps QBs honest. That’s part of why the Redskins defense was 4th overall in yards allowed and 6th overall in points per game.
RAK EM UP!
really?
wow, so now there are no individual stats to measure a safety’s worth? I guess if you say so, but I would also say that from watching Skin’s games he did nothing to impress, he is nothing special. I think that play-makers and game changers find themselves around the ball regardless of what else happens, I get that you don’t want your safety leading the team in tackles, but I also think you want more impact from them than you are getting from Landry.
First to six!!!
landry is a good physical safety.
the guy is an enforcer. he hasn’t been around that long…so i expect his stats to be better the longer he plays. even though it was a failing effort, it’s impressive to see a free safety take on brandon jacobs head-on. i want that mentality in my secondary.
Actually
it wasn’t a failing effort because while he did get knocked back on his ass, he also managed to hold on long enough to get help in bringing the beast down.
RAK EM UP!
I don't think he was holding him
Law’s of physics suggest that if an entity that is smaller when hit by a larger entity, that smaller entity will therefore give it’s ground. Though there can be arguements and cases that may dismiss this theory, the fact remains…
LaRon was not holding on, he was moreless a bug that has just hit a windshield. He was stuck to him!!! lol
yea..
lol at Skins fans giving Landry any credit on that play.
Everyone know Landry got Knocked the F out. Jacobs just tripped over him.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 16, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
from watching Skin’s games
That is the key! The 1st priority of a safety (and CB for that matter) is to prevent the offense from making plays. They deter the throw, prevent the catch, and provide a last line of resistance if a QB/RB break(s) through the line. Stats won’t show these things for safeties.
but I would also say that from watching Skin’s games he did nothing to impress, he is nothing special.Here’s where Greg Blache and I will have to respectfully disagree with you once again. In watching home games, I see a top-15 safety who has the physical skills and ability (going in to his 3rd year) to be elite! Very rarely, if ever, will you see Landry getting burned. Sometimes he’s in the wrong place, but that will come with time.
RAK EM UP!
FYI
the eagles had the best D in the NFC by a large margin, and got younger, healthier, and more experienced. The addition of the $100 million man does not mean the Skins are suddenly the best D in the Beast. Give credit where credit is due…
Not exactly
I am not sure how you got younger and more experienced at the same time? Normally those two things do not go hand in hand, not to mention how did you get better when you lost the leader, and in this Cowboy’s Fans opinion, the best player on your defense?
The Redskins were ranked 4th last year and did get better, the only place they come up short is creating turnovers/sacks (they usually go together) and if they can get better it will be a problem for the rest of the East.
I am not sure how you got better and moreso how you are the best by a “large margin” I wouldn’t say any one team is significantly better than another here. Just trying to be objective (which it kills me to do)
First to six!!!
in this Cowboy’s Fans opinion, the best player on your defense
Meh Sheldon Brown, Trent Cole, Jack Ikegwuonu (I kid) it is really debatable at this point in his career.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Dawkins was the leader w/o qeustion, but best on our def., i dont think so. Our def. is young to begin w/, and another year under their belt gives them even more experience. We ranked first in the NFC in def. last year, why shouldnt we start there to begin the season? Just like anything esle SB champ, Div. champ, they’re the the ones to beat till someone takes their spot.
How we got younger, the only position we lost is Dawkins spot, and that will be filled by a younger player. Either Sean Jones, third among Safeties w/ 14 int’s over the last 3 seasons, or Sean Demps in his second year. Demps played well last year, may not hit like Dawks, but he’s fast and can play. Neither of them is an “upgrade” over Dawks leadership, but both can be considered an upgrade at the Safety position because of their youth. Dawks himself said that his leadership will not be missed w/ the talent/players we have in our locker room, so we’ll just have to see how it pans out.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 17, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I am still not sure where you got better though? Sean Jones is a good young safety, I like him a lot, but he is not an upgrade at the safety position.
First to six!!!
skins D
i will bet anyone the skins have a higher ranked D than the eagles .. i would rank them giants skins eagles .. and then the cowboys far behind
by jack is better than asante on Jun 15, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions
did u do the madden rankings?
that explains why they’re wrong
by sports00fan00 on Jun 16, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
JIBTA is drinking A LOT of things, probly bleach mixed with paint chips, but Green and White kool aid is by far the last thing that man drinks.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 17, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
yea
dude VA skins .. i defend your skins and you take shots at me .. i dont fuckin over rate player cuz they are eagles .. i tell it like it is .. jacobs is a giant and i think hes the best rb in the division .. i think newman is better than asante .. i think fletcher is better than bradley .. and gocong is a bum .. why are u takin shots at me
by jack is better than asante on Jun 17, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
NIBTA?
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 17, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
FIBTB?
for now…
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 17, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
JIBTA, can you read? Seriously…It’s ok if you can’t. VA Skin complimented you…he called you objective. that’s not like “you’re just objecting to things”. He’s saying that you see things how they really are without being biased. Do you understand now? I can use smaller words if necessary…I’ll try to help you through this.
ROTFL
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
o haha
i read that wrong lol i thought he said all u drink is green and white koolaid .. my bad bro
by jack is better than asante on Jun 18, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well done again. Rec'd.
If only you could be this honest about your own team. I look forward to your post about the Skins.
HINT: Our weaknesses won’t be on any aspect of our defense.
RAK EM UP!
what?
come on dude i am honest about the eagles .. i dont say anyone is better than they really are .. you should know this
by jack is better than asante on Jun 16, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont say anyone is better than they really are
Your name is “jack is better than asante” oxymoron much?
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Jun 16, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
F**K
i hate screwing up the reply.
hahahahaha…
BURN!!…….but that’s his boy!
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 16, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You think Jacobs is top 2 which highly questionable at best. You claimed LJ was dominate for 5 years.
haha
i love jacobs and that yards per carry is hard to ignore .. i never get mad at fredex tho lol i think hes my fav person on here
by jack is better than asante on Jun 17, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
When I look at this team, I still don't feel as though we are very far away, we still have to work hard and do the things we are capable of, but we do have the chance to get back and come back strong." -Brian Westbrook-
again
all u do is call me an asshat .. u contribute nothing football wise
by jack is better than asante on Jun 18, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What if you Pronounce it (Ash-At) then it sounds nicer. =)
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 18, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahaha
BURN!!……..but thats his boy!
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Jun 16, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions
Bye, Dawk
With the strength of the Midgets D-line and the pressure that they get on the QB, you could put Monty Montgomery, Charles Dimry, Blaine Bishop, and Erik McMillan in their secondary and they would look good. Webster and Ross are mediocre… at best. They are certainly NOT a strength. They’re simply reaping the benefits of reduced cover time. Even with that juggernaut of a line, the Gints pass defense was rated lower than every team in the Beast (even the Cow-chokes).
RAK EM UP!
I give Webster credit, but no one else in the secondary. Ross has been very underwhelming even with that reduced cover time.
Between Philly > Giants
Statistically, they’re all very similar.
Even with that juggernaut of a line, the Gints pass defense was rated lower than every team in the Beast (even the Cow-chokes).
At 2,5,7 and 8 amongst the 4 teams, this seems to be a little nitpicky. The only difference would be the Cowboys total int’s which were less than half of the rest of the division. It’s not like the Giants pass D was overwhelmingly rated lower!
Absolutely.
And the fact that nobody really ran up the score on us last year, despite our CBs being left hung out to dry so long, is a testimony to how good they are.
Don’t get me wrong, if I was playing a pickup game back in the neighborhood, and you gave me 1 CB to choose in the Beast, it would be Samuels. He’s got the total package. But paired up, I would take our CB set over any other NFC team all day.
RAK EM UP!
I’m kind of surprised you think Asante is the best, and still favor your pairing. A decent amount of people think Sheldon is better overall corner. Not as flashy, doesn’t get as many picks, but can be a better cover guy, and a better tackler.
Under the premise that Asante is the top guy in the division I doubt too many objective people would say both your corners are better than Sheldon, period, let alone enough better than him to a degree that makes your pairing better.
brown
brown is our best corner .. he doesnt gamble n jump routes like asante .. asante is soo over rated .. hes our hall .. we say hall is over rated .. well so is asante .. they are the same type of players .. the diff is hall went to oakland and ruined his reputation
by jack is better than asante on Jun 20, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude your homer goggles are all fogged up. Sheldon can cover and hit. Smoot is a dog.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the goverment from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Corners in todays game might have to be counted in sets of 3s. Your nickel guy plays almost 60%.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the goverment from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
maybe
its close .. hall and asante are washes .. but i think brown is better than hall .. and newman is the best in the division .. so newman henry would of been up there .. cant tell with jenkins not playing much .. but hes talented .. and he has dreads so i like him .. but all of them are close .. no one has bad cbs
by jack is better than asante on Jun 20, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
and he has dreads so i like him
Once again your logic is way over my head. You like this guy because he has dreads which means dreads >asante? Am i right or are you justing stating the fact that you like dreads in a blog about football?
by Iggles Fan 4 Life on Jun 23, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Boo ya
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
*sniff *sniff
Sorry, I didn’t realize that you were sensitive and didn’t suffer well.
Here is a tissue for your Vag.
Astra Inclinant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on Jun 25, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Good write-up
I don’t see a repeat. And don’t see how some reporters still place them atop the NFC East. They’ve got excellent lines, but not much behind them. They lost 50% of their running game (more if you count Wards 41 catches for 384 yds). And Manning without Burress, is asking for a stacked box… Burress’s abilities kept baby Manning’s numbers looking mediocre..
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