The 2009 Eagles defense - Best in the NFC?
by JimmyK on May 25, 2009 10:40 PM EDT
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PrintPreviously, we looked at the offense, a unit that last year finished 6th in points scored, 9th in yardage, and then made MAJOR upgrades by adding Jason Peters, Stacy Andrews, Leonard Weaver, Jeremy Maclin, LeSean McCoy, Cornelius Ingram, and a healthy Shawn Andrews. That can be seen RIGHT HERE (LINK). Today we'll look at the defense.
Our defense last year was 4th in points allowed, 3rd in yards allowed, and tied for 9th in turnovers. Obviously, we lost the unquestioned team leader in Brian Dawkins, but at the same time, we got a lot younger and faster.
Let's address Dawkins first...
I know, I know... He's losing a step, can't cover anymore, big liability in pass coverage, 36 years old, and there's always the "The Ghosts of Free Agency Past" that the Eagles turned out to be right in letting walk (Hugh Douglas, Duce Staley, Jeremiah Trotter, and well, we all know the list)... and whatever other arguments I'm missing that we've talked ourselves into believing since he bolted to Denver.
This one is different though. For one, Dawkins can still play. Anyone know who was the NFC Defensive Player of the Month in December last year? Dawkins. Who was the unquestioned heart and leader of this team (and note I said "team," not defense)? Dawkins. The one thing that I felt didn't get enough mention after his departure was... Why wouldn't they franchise him? For a safety, the average of the top 5 salaries in the NFL was $5 mil and change. If we franchise him, it gives Demps another year to develop (and at the same time still get on the field to relieve Dawkins on obvious passing downs), and then maybe we re-evaluate Dawkins' situation after next year. At $5 mil and change, are we overpaying him a little? Yeah, probably. But who cares? I can almost guarantee that at no point during this upcoming season the Eagles will never have less than $6 mil in cap room. Did they consider franchising him? I'd have to imagine they did, but I'm guessing they felt the market for his services wouldn't be very high, and they rolled the dice and took their chances in free agency. The problem, however, is that there are a lot of stupid teams out there, and Denver made an offer that would be dumb to match. So he's gone but not forgotten, for better or worse, and we move on...
The Starters
LDE - Juqua Parker - Age, 30
LDE is one of 2 or 3 starting positions that are up for grabs going into this season. In this defense, however, being the "starter" doesn't mean much - Jim Johnson likes to constantly "throw fastballs at the defense" by continually rotating players throughout the game along the defensive line. Over the past 3 seasons, Parker has been very consistent. He played in all 16 games in each of his 4 seasons here in Philly, and has had decent production while playing in a DE rotation (6 sacks in 2006, 5 in 2007, and 5 in 2008). He'll face some competition from Victor Abiamiri for the starting job.
DT - Brodrick Bunkley - Age, 25
Bunkley stepped up nicely as a run stuffer in this defense last year, and in case that picture of him isn't evidence enough, he's a scary bitch. His best 2 games of the season last year were both in Giants Stadium, where they were able to keep the Giants running game mostly in check. Both he and Patterson come out on obvious passing downs, but I'd like to see some production from him collapsing the pocket and picking up a few more sacks on 1st down passing plays - In his 3 year career with Philly, he only has 5 sacks. Still though, anyone miss the days when we couldn't stop the run?
DT - Mike Patterson - Age, 25
Patterson is entering his 5th year with the Birds, and he too has become another very good run stuffer. His production dropped off a little from 2007 (67 tackles, which I think led the NFL for DT's, and 4 sacks) to 2008 (42 tackles, 0.5 sacks).
RDE - Trent Cole - Age, 26
Trent Cole is one of the best DE's in the NFL. He is excellent rushing the passer, but he has also been surprising good against the run as well, as Jim Johnson uncharacteristically keeps him on the field the entire game. In his Pro Bowl season of 2007, he had 12.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles. Last year he had 9 sacks and 2 forced fumbles.
WLB - Akeem Jordan - Age, 23
Akeem Jordan took over for Omar Gaither for the final 6 games of the season, and was solid (especially in pass coverage where Gaither was killing us) in those 6 games, posting 44 tackles. Jordan, however, didn't have any forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, or interceptions, and as a WLB he'll be expected to be more of a playmaker.
MLB - Stewart Bradley - Age, 25
Big Stew is a budding star. Period. 2008 was Bradley's first full season as a starter, he played great, and is only going to get better. If there's any criticism of Bradley, you could argue that he needs to generate more turnovers - He had one interception, one forced fumble, and no fumble recoveries in 2008. Still, he's always around the ball, doesn't miss tackles, and 3-and-outs are nice, too.
SLB - Chris Gocong - Age, 25
With 2 full seasons as a starter, Gocong is the most experienced of our LB corps. When the Eagles drafted him in 2006, it was mainly because he completely dominatated as a pass rasher at small school Cal-Poly SLO. That pass rushing ability has yet to translate to the NFL, as Gocong has 3 sacks in his 2 year career, despite often being sent as a blitzer as the "joker" in Jim Johnson's scheme. We need him to step up his game in 2009. (Side note - What's the average age of our LBs? 24.33. Nice)
LCB - Asante Samuel - Age, 28
What were the 2 most important plays in the Eagles' 2 playoff wins? You could make a pretty strong argument for Samuel's interception return for a TD against the Vikings, as well as his interception return to the 1 against the Giants. The guy is simply just an amazing playmaker, and one of the best corners in the NFL. Oddly enough, as far as production goes, 2008 was a down year for Samuel, as he only had 4 regular season interceptions - He had 6 in 2007, and TEN in 2006.
RCB - Sheldon Brown - Age, 30
#24 needs to decide which of the two above Sheldon Browns we should expect to see this year. He recently indicated that we'll be seeing the one on the left. Look, I love Sheldon Brown. He's one of the most underrated PLAYERS (not just corners... PLAYERS) in the NFL, he's a huge hitter, a really solid cover corner, and up until a couple months ago I thought of him as the successor to Dawkins as the leader of this defense. However, his preseason bitching about his contract was both suprising and disappointing, and his days here are numbered. The Eagles are on the record as saying that the acquisition of Ellis Hobbs had nothing to do with Brown's contract dispute, but I don't buy it. With Hobbs, Hanson, Macho Harris, and Jack Ikegwuonu all sitting there as reserves, Brown's days as an untouchable are gone.
FS - Qunitin Demps - Age, 23
I'm officially on the record as saying I'd be a lot more comfortable with Dawkins still on this roster for one more year, which would give the very talent Demps another year to develop, but I will say this... The FS spot just got A LOT faster. My best guess is that Demps will relinquish his kick returning duties to focus on his FS play. Nationally, Demps is viewed as the guy that took a cheap shot on Kurt Warner and the guy that slipped on a long pass play that resulted in a TD pass to the best WR in the universe. But, I see a speedy playmaker that can cover WR's man to man like a corner.
SS - Quintin Mikell - Age, 28
Quintin Mikell should have been in Hawaii last year. This year he will be. I'm not saying anything more than that.
AVERAGE AGE OF OUR STARTERS... 26.18. (Note - If Abiamiri beats out Parker for the starting job, the average age is 25.54 years old. That's insane.)
The Reserves
The D-line
Victor Abiamiri (23 years old), Darren Howard (32), Bryan Smith (25), Chris Clemons (27), Trevor Laws (23), and Dan Klecko (28)...
Each of these players (with the possible exception of Smith) are going to see plenty of action this year. Trent Cole is a beast and stays on the field the entire game, but with the remaining 3 spots the Eagles love rotating their D-Line and throwing "fastballs at the defense" by sending out rested players and methodically wearing down the opposing O-Line. As I mentioned above, Abiamiri will compete with Jaqua Parker for the starting position, but it really doesn't matter who the "starter" is... They'll likely see equal time. Howard was the biggest pleasant surprise last year, as he went from a player that was facing an uphill battle just to MAKE the team, to a guy that posted 10 sacks. Both Abiamiri and Howard will also see time at DT in obvious passing situations. Clemons will be used solely as a pass rusher. Last year, Clemons did absolutely nothing in the first 7 games, but became a really valuable contributor as the season progressed. Smith is still a question mark. He was extremely productive in the preseason games last year, and then the Eagles redshirted him. He's been bulking up and will compete for playing time this year. Laws is entering his second year as well and he should also see a significant increase in playing time.
The linebackers
Omar Gaither (25), Joe Mays (23), and special teamers Tank Daniels and Tracy White (not pictured)
LB is the only postion (perhaps RB, too) where the Eagles don't have enough depth. Omar Gaither lost his job as the starter last year to Akeem Jordan mostly because opposing offenses were torching him in pass coverage. Still, he can play all 3 LB positions and is a valuable reserve. After Gaither, our depth is very questionable. Mays had some huge hits in the preseason last year, but he has yet to play a down in a game that has mattered. Tank Daniels and Tracy White filled out the 2008 LB roster spots, but are no more than special teamers. The Eagles also drafted Moise Fokou in the 7th round.
Secondary
Ellis Hobbs (26), Joselio Hanson (27), Sean Jones(27), Jack Ikegwuonu (23), Macho Harris (23)
Deep? Check. Talented? Check. Let's start with Joselio Hanson, because here's another player that nobody outside Philadelphia knows AT ALL, and yet he goes out and rarely ever gives up any plays. Don't be surprised when Hanson beats out Hobbs as the nickel corner. As for Hobbs, you gotta love having a 26 year old corner that was a 3-year starter on the best team in the NFL... As your dime back!!! Oh and by the way, he also was 2nd in the NFL in kick returns. Sean Jones comes to us from Cleveland and over the past 3 years, there are only 2 safeties in the NFL that have had more interceptions. Late in the season last year, the Eagles starting using a lot of 3-safety sets with Mikell, Demps, and Dawkins - look for that trend to continue with Mikell, Demps and Jones. Macho Harris could be a steal in the 5th round, and he'll likely move to safety in the NFL. Jack Ikegwonu was redshirted last year and he'll need to prove that he can contribute on special teams and find a niche on this defense to beat out Rashad Baker (not pictured) for a roster spot.
And that brings us to the man, the myth, the legend...
Jim Johnson
Jim Johnson, without question, is the most important and the most irreplaceable component of the Eagles defense. His battle with cancer makes everything else seem less significant. Best of luck, JIm, and have a speedy recovery.
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wow Bye Dawks is a beast at righting analysises
AndrewB has some competition
To me the Eagles are like that girlfriend that pisses u off, then u hate her, but the next morning you wake up and remember that thing u love so much about her
by XxBleedGreen5xX on May 27, 2009 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
no
klecko gets a picture but wont make the team .. jack is better than macho harris and macho has to beat out parker to make the roster .. jacks on it already .. cole is good but one dimesional .. sheldon is not a cry baby .. he was correct hes underpaid .. stop hating on the guy .. its bs .. it pisses me off everytime i see it .. parker hasnt been as good since he changed his name .. sean jones will start over demps .. even tho demps is gonna be a star .. mikkell will not make the probowl .. to many big names .. landry is better than him in washington .. hands down .. and there are always a few safteys who make it on name rec which he doesnt have .. ken hamlin prob .. but i dont think they are the best .. the giants are.. the giants front 7 is soo much better than eagles with osi back .. but they are deff top 5
by jack is better than asante on May 25, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
Trent Cole – One dimensional? I’m not even sure what dimension you’re talking about. What can’t he do?
Sheldon Brown – It’s one thing to bitch about a contract. It’s a whole other thing to point at other players’ contracts and suggest that they are also underpaid (Cole, Patterson). That’s where he lost me.
Ikegwuonu – He’s far from a sure thing to make the roster. I’m certainly rooting for him, but from where I stand, right now he’s no better than the 5th corner and he’ll have to earn a roster spot. I know you love him, brother, but it’s gonna be a battle.
Mikell – You’re right about the name recognition – That’s why he didn’t make it last year, but he’s beginning to get some notice. And I’m not so sure about Landry being better. Remember, Mikell was 2nd team All-Pro last year.
Klecko – Agreed – he’ll have a battle on his hands, too… But they’re going to keep 4 DT’s, so who would get the nod instead? (And I don’t want to hear Darren Howard or Victor Abiamiri because they’ll only play DT on obvious passing downs).
where ya been JIBTA
have not seen ya in a while
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on May 25, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually agree with JIBTA?!?!?!
Sean Jones is an absolute beast and has been underrated since leaving Cleveland. I think he will give Demps a huge run for his money and may take the starting position from him.
PS… another excellent post from Bye, Dawk:(
by Iggles Fan 4 Life on May 26, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Analysis
The thing i love about the Eagles’ Defense is that we have so few big names. Now with BDawk gone we have a defense that not many people outside of our division knows.
In our community they are huge, but ask someone whom are AFC fans, who some of our players are they’ll have no idea. But that’s what i like about it, no HUGE names except maybe Asante and no HUGE expectations for us.
I hope we sneak in under the radar every game defensively, but i think that our offensive is gonna bring some clout to our team and that will also bring out some defensive names as we get more national tv time.
Brian Dawkins for President
no huge expectations for you???
what!!! says who? there’s HUGE expectations for a REALLY good football team that only got better!!! not sure really what happened with dawkins, and it’s a crying shame, but besides that HUGE snafu, the eagles have gotten stronger on every side of the ball. i’m not a fan of having a second team, but if i was, it would DEFINITELY have to be the eagles… and i can’t wait til november when you guys come to town…
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
The Giants Front 7
Is freakin SCARY!!!!!
Especially with Osi back, and the additions of Boley and Canty….
WIth that said, our defense is on par with them and our offense is definitely better.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
the one thing that makes me thing that giants defense may pan out to be a joke....
spags is gone, he made that d what it is. Spags is to NY, as Jimmy is to Philly. I have faith in his replacement, but it sure would be nice if the legend got better and was able to do what he loves and does best.
Get well soon Jimmy!
We Love ya!
im so tired of hearing how the giants hav the best d now just because they picked up a couple dlineman and a no name linebacker.Sure their deep on the d line but their going to have to be after osi gets hurt again. Plus does anybody ever get tired of seeing kcurt and djack make aaron ross and cwebster look like clowns? i luv it and cant wait
by goldenbird09 on May 26, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say they were the best
But they are good, and it would be oblivious not to consider them so.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
It's a solid defense, but not the best
This is essentially the same defense as last year, minus Dawkins, and plus Demps, Sean Jones and Hobbs. Demps will improve our speed at safety, but he’s going to make more than his share of mistakes due to inexperience. And there’s no way he can replace Dawkins’ ferocious hitting and turnovers. If Jones gets any playing time, he may help in the turnover department, but he’s not great in coverage. The linebackers other than Bradley are thin. Gocong is just a body out there, and Jordan played well his first three starts, but got exploited in the post season. The back up linebackers are mediocre. Brown, Samuel and Hansen plus Mikell give us probably the strongest secondary in the league, especially with Hobbs providing depth. The D Line is goood Bunkley and Patterson are great run stoppers, but don’t get much pressure. Cole is a stud, but will get double teamed a lot. The remaining guys are all ok, but nothing special. On balance the defense is probably a little weaker than last year, and definitely needs somebody to step up and force turnovers. Maybe some of these guys will up their games, but until then, I think this group is very good, but not great.
i said this before
but i still think we shouldve got bart scott or angelo crowell bc i like our olbs but i think we needa a pretty good or atleast solid vet i like all the youth on our team and shit but we needa nice well experenced LB leader
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on May 25, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions
Signing a veteran LB...
I would have agreed with that last year, but we’ll be returning 3 starters, so we pretty much know what we have. Plus, I’m not in the locker room so it’s a little ridiculous for me to say that Bradley is emerging as a leader, but that seems to be the feeling about him.
As for Bart Scott and Angelo Crowell… Bart Scott signed with the Jets for $48 mil over 6 years ($8 mil per season), and there’s no way the Eagles would ever pay that much for a LB. Not to mention, he went to go play for his old defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, so the price tag for him to come here would have probably been even higher. Crowell is a guy that has nice speed, but from what I’ve read about him, he apparently is a liability in pass coverage and often is out of position against the run – We already have a guy like that, and he lost his job last year.
The guy that I think would have been a really nice fit was Michael Boley. That was a great signing by the Giants.
I said no
but I dont really know if anyone is better, and I could have gone either way. For me, losing Dawkins wasnt as big a deal so much as uncertainty with our LBs. I think they are all good, but I think there might be a team with about as good D Line, almost as good secondary and better LBs. Also, it can be hard to judge defenses, because there are so many different aspects of it, like turnovers, points given up, sacks and other disruption type stuff, and stopping 3rd downs, or being good in the red zone etc. as well as even some other stuff like bailing out the offense when they either just suck or are having a bad day. I know the Eagles do well with all this stuff, but I am thinking maybe some team that has a bad offense might have a better defense than the Eagles.
I am curious, what defenses in the NFC do people think are at the top?
Bears don’t really belong in this discussion.
Vikings are pretty good, but again, I don’t put them up there with the Giants or Eagles. I don’t think the Redskins are that great on defense. Last year was a semi-fluke. They’re tremendously old on the d-line and their linebackers are meh. Maybe Haynesworth and Orakpu turn them into a legit defense, though.
Giants are good, obviously. Giants are more consistent, but our defense at its best is the best in the league. Too bad we’re not consistent. If we can play December ball all year round then I’d put us at #1.
I’d put them:
4) Redskins
3) Vikings
2) Eagles
1) Giants
Sadly, if the Cowboys get their act together and play more consistent, they’re easily more talented than the Redskins. Potentially, 4 of the top 5 defenses in the NFC will come out of the NFC East (Hell, they did last year)
I am the people's troll :3™
How dont we play consistent?
Pend a few games like the first Dallas and Giants game at the linc we were consistent all year long
To me the Eagles are like that girlfriend that pisses u off, then u hate her, but the next morning you wake up and remember that thing u love so much about her
by XxBleedGreen5xX on May 27, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
Bye Dawk, you are the first person to sum up the Dawkins scenario adequately. There have been two stances and both have been equally maddening. The first stance has been that all is lost and the Eagles should be strung up for letting Dawkins go. The other and more commonly posted by the regulars on this site has been that Dawkins sucked last year and cost them more than his share of games all by himself. The Eagles would have been idiots to have signed him for $1. Those folks find no fault in the Eagles at any point and they are quite delusional. I am with you. This defense would have been better with him on the roster and I think the Eagles could have easily avoided having him hit free agency if they had played their cards right. They gambled and they lost. At the same time, it is very hard to question how they played it. Who would have guessed anyone would have paid him what he got? So, I don’t blame them or think the sky is falling. I just think the defense was better with him and would still be that way for one more season.
I think it will be a good defense but they did not do anything to get better this offseason unless you count Ellis Hobbs. (I feel Lito was an upgrade on D but not on ST) You also have to look at their injury situation last year. It was pretty amazing to make it through the season with as few injuries to starters on the D. While I hope to see that again, you cannot count on it. Factoring in the lack of upgrades and the odds of seeing more injuries, I am going to assume the D is not quite as good as last year. That would make make them a good defense but not the best in the NFL or even the NFC. Some things could prove me wrong and I hope they come to fruition. Another year for Bryan Smith, Abriamiri, Clemons, Bradley, Jordan, and even Samuel could lead to some improved play. I am keeping my fingers crossed!
I agree with you
But in fairness, I don’t think the regulars on the site are that hard on Dawk. We all loved him!!! The Eagles made a reasonable and fair offer…not an offensive and lowball offer to Dawk, who turned it down for Denver’s ridiculous offer…that’s not anyone’s fault.
You’d like to think that the city that Dawkins bled for would value him more than Denver, but they obviously didn’t…I don’t fault them for it…Philly didn’t need him as much as Denver did, their defense has been pathetic!
And so with Dawkins gone, we’re forced to figure out if it was the right idea. Could we have afforded him, and kept him? Sure. Would we be a better defense with him? Sure. BUT…he would have transitioned even more than last year into a situational player. He would essentially be a converted linebacker who gets big hits…and what value does that role have on our defense? It’s like we would have been paying him for his leadership (which should not be underrated), but his talent on the field is really at this point limited to QB pressure and the run game.
I love Dawk like the next guy, but the Eagles made the right offer. They didn’t cut him or let him go for nothing, they made the right offer. for that, I do support the FO
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Agreed
I agree that most folks loved Dawkins. You really cannot be an Eagles fan and not appreciate what he did for this team/city. My point is that it IS ok to say that the Eagles D would be even better with Dawkins. I think many people are going overboard to prove that the FO was right to “let him go.” In doing so they talk about how horrible he was last year and how much better the D will be without him. He single handedly won the Pittsburgh game and was a beast in both Giants victories. I think my opinion differs from yours that he was such a liability in coverage last year. He was no longer like a corner in coverage but he was no worse than the average safety. More importantly, I agree with Bye Dawk that Demps will make his share of mistakes in coverage this season just as he makes his share of plays. That being said, I think Dawkins savvy would have made him almost equal to Demps in coverage for 2009.
So, being like all of us here, I want them to put the best possible team on the field. Since I feel Dawkins would have made them even better, I do wish the Eagles had managed to keep him. As Bye Dawk mentioned, franchising him would not have put them in a position where they did not have the flexibility to do all the other things they did this offseason. Again, not really criticizing FO. I think they gambled that no one would pay him what it would cost to franchise him and they lost. Easy for us to figure that out for them in hindsight. At the same time, I can’t agree that they did everything right in this scenario or else he would still be on the team and for a price that did not kill us.
Not sure why I keep arguing this point because I really do want to start looking forward. We do have A LOT to be excited about. I have not been this excited for a season since 2004.
Agreed Agreed Agreed
We do have A LOT to be excited about. I have not been this excited for a season since 2004.
Dawk would have made us better, but at the cost to some of his playing time…he would make us better in depth and certain situations. Franchising him would (IMO) almost be insulting…that’s what you do to a guy that you don’t really want, but you don’t have any better option.
In any case, I miss Dawk too. Damn he was awesome, and he’s still awesome! The highlight reel from the Pittsburgh game when he flew in like Weapon X, stripped the ball, sacked Big Ben and recovered the fumble in a single play is maybe the best defensive performance I’ve ever seen in a single snap of the ball. I’ll miss him too…but let’s start thinking Eagles ’09…cuz now, we have an offense to compliment our nasty freakin D.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
You are
Right. I barely noticed until now but we had no major injuries to slow us down last year. It was a pretty good year. That’s pretty amazing if you think about it.
if we have injuries this year
our depth is pretty sick. For example, even if (god forbid) both Asante and Sheldon went down for the year, our starters would be Ellis Hobbs and Hanson. Those are pretty good #3 and #4 backups.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
Good backups
But the key word is back ups. Losing any starter hurts as there is a reason they are the starter. Imagine (god forbid) losing Trent Cole and Stewart Bradley instead of Asante and Brown. Suddenly, things are not so happy.
While he's not as good in coverage
Gaither is better than a “good” MIKE backup. Losing Cole… well yeah then we’d be screwed but thats true on most teams with a star pass rusher.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
Good D but I think Giants D is better
Our D is solid but not intimidating to anyone. The Giants front 7 on the other hand is going to rattle a lot of teams.
I disagree
I think our D is ridiculously intimidating. I live in NY, and they dreaded the idea of an Eagles win over the Vikings which would force a game between the Giants and Birds. After stopping them on 4th down TWICE, leading the league in sacks through a good portion of the season (thanks a lot to the Pittsburgh game)…a ridiculous secondary….I think we are both intimidating and better than the Giants. Their front 7 is scary, but their secondary doesn’t scare me at all.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Ecellent post ... rec'd and buzzed
This one is different though. For one, Dawkins can still play.
I agree, I argued this throughout the year with several people, Dawkins was the same old Dawkins people were just focusing on the negative more last year.
Career Avg 69 TKL 54 SOLO 15 AST 1.6 Sack 2.5 FF 2.6 INT
2008 Numbers 75 TKL 64 SOLO 11 AST 3 Sacks 6 FF 1 INT
The fact of the matter is Denver over paid and it would have been dumb for the Eagles to match. Demps can play and people will find that out real fast.
I’m a defense first guy and this team is quick and scary. I love it, I am excited to see them dominate teams this year.
Quintin Mikell is a stud and was robbed of a pro bowl. JIBTA Landry = FS <> Mikell = SS.
I lost a ton of respect for Brown these past few months. I’m willing to put it all behind me as long as he comes out and plays hard. The fans know and love him and realize that he is the best overall corner on our team.
AVERAGE AGE OF OUR STARTERS… 26.18. (Note – If Abiamiri beats out Parker for the starting job, the average age is 25.54 years old. That’s insane.)
If this doesn’t give you a semi then you aren’t a true fan.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
OOH,
I’m sporting a half chub alright.
Astra Inclanant, Non Necessitant
by EagleGreeninMD on May 26, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Dawk is gone, leave it alone already!!!
Our FO have done moves for the Eagles since we been fans!
Obviousely they know what they r doing!!
I like to believe I was Dawkins biggest fan, he was declining in his skills!!
(who remembers the first cowboy game last year, Dawk was match up with T.O. @ goal line and he couldn’t gard T.O. For one second!) I know not Many CORNERS can but atleast attempt too!! That’s when I knew Dawk days were numbered!! In our D-shemes, we need our corners n safeties to match up one on one coverage!! Reason is cause we send the whole kitchen sink at times!! I believe we will be better (on defense) within time!! Now if that time is this up coming season I don’t know just like the FAN!!! But we sure will find out now since DAWK is gone!! (imagine a young DAWK with the group we have now!) MAN I WISH DAWK WAS STILL A EAGLE!!! GO BIRDS!!!! P.S. When DAWK retires, he should be a Our Defensive Co. Coach!!! That would be awsome!!! :)
We'll be at the top of the D list this year!!! As long as we stay healthy & play consistent EAGLES FOOTBALL!!!
which we haven’t done since 04!!
lol The best not even Close
you guys lost your main defensive piece. Then JJ might be out. Without Jim Johnson you guys will be lucky to be top ten in the NFC in defense. He has a way of making even bad player look like there great.
I think you’re nuts to try to say we’ll be out of the top 5!!! Dont forget that all of the guys under JJ have been learning and mastering JJ’s skillset. IF JJ isnt in a position to lead us to greatness, then there is no other mentor that i would have rather our “new guy” train under.
-think about all of the guys who go on to be great coaches. They all start in good systems, with good coaching. They learn the system, they prove themselves, and then move on up the ladder when the time comes!!
by GreenInBaltimore on May 26, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
If you were a Giants fan (or even to a lesser degree, a Vikes fan) coming on here and saying that, it would be somewhat acceptable. But the Cowboys have 2 (MAYBE 3) players that would start in this defense. Obviously Ware can play wherever he wants, and Newman could be our second corner. Maybe Ratliff. That’s it.
Seriously dude?
you guys lost your main defensive piece.
While he was a leader and I don’t want to mitigate that he wasn’t the main defensive piece you should probably take another look at our system.
Without Jim Johnson you guys will be lucky to be top ten in the NFC in defense
Because why? because it’s completely impossible for any of the coaches under JJ to go on and become great defensive coordinators? Oh wait what’s that Steve Spagnuolo did just that?
Listen I’m praying JJ gets well and not just because I want him back on the sidelines. If JJ getting healthy means he never coaches again then I will be grateful that he did what he did and happy that he is healthy.
With all that said Sean McDermott will be a stud DC trust.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Dawkins is still a top 5 saftey in the NFL
And would still be your best defensive player and you let him walk. Your DC is sick and might not make it back. Im not saying you wont be good But #1 is just stupid.
First of all
no one “LET HIM WALK” the fact is no one in the NFL was willing to match that offer that Denver made. The contract he got was insane. I’m a Dawkins fan and I think we would’ve been dumb to match that offer. And i love the fact that now that Dawk is gone, the Dallas fan’s love him and brag him up.
Brian Dawkins for President
Ya we brag him up.
You guys think Demps is better than him. Fact is hes one of the best to play the game. He called your guy’s audibles and made sure everybody was were they needed to be. He knew what JJ was going to call before jj knew. Thats not replacable and stupid to think it is.
He called your guy’s audibles and made sure everybody was were they needed to be.
not true, this is/has been the job of the MIKE. He was the emotional leader of the team but you are making him out to be the QB of the D and he was not that. If he was it would have been him with the little green dot on his helmet not Bradley.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
dawkins
dawkins is a bit over rated .. his emotion made him seem better than he played .. he couldnt cover anyone .. i think sean jones is a more athletic version who can cover a lil .. i dare say hes an upgrade .. i loved dawk .. but not as much as all you guys .. hes aging . ..he was dominant .. he isnt anymore .. i like demps .. hes gonna be good .. but hes not polished yet .. so jones should start and play well .. demps will rotate in .. and take some of mikkells reps as well
by jack is better than asante on May 30, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
okay ken hamlin made the pro bowl
so did brett favre and im pretty sure his season ended the same way like my man up there said fan voting. i hate you feel that way about our defense but it is almost undeniable the utilization of the talent on our defense already makes us a preseason pick for the top 5 defense in the league. Dawk is great and will be missed but i thought the same exact thing about trotter and in all honesty sayin our d is the best in the nfc is a bit of a bold statement but i must say we have one of the most mentally tough defenses ive seen. Yes we lost some with the dawk departure but thats what mental toughness is about and i believe this team as a unit it learned from dawk and someone will step as a leader.
oh yea i dont wanna hear a cowboy fan ranting about our predictions bc tell me about your predictions from last year
by birdsflyinhigh2590 on May 26, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
My Predictions every year are a Superbowl.
Whats your’s making the NFC Championship game? Keep with your Preseason Predictions i bet everybody had Pitt and Arizona in the SuperBowl.
umm i has Philly and Pitt
im a noncomformist
To me the Eagles are like that girlfriend that pisses u off, then u hate her, but the next morning you wake up and remember that thing u love so much about her
by XxBleedGreen5xX on May 29, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
i think they can be top 5
but they are not better than the giants .. the giants added three good players to their front 7 and got osi back .. osi is a premier player .. we didnt add shit .. so yea .. they can be top 5. . but the giants are the clear 1
by jack is better than asante on May 26, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
gocong doesnt do anything .. he was suposed to be this pass rushing specialist. . hes not good
You can easily replace “Gocong” with “Spencer”. Not that I’d give up on either player as they are both young, but talent doesn’t mean anything if you can’t put it together. Again, not that Spencer can’t/won’t do it, but that’s where the arguments are coming from. He hasn’t show anyone anything since college.
I really like Newman and Ware for Dallas, and they did improve at the safety position. They lost Canty (who lots of people think is really good, although I’m not particularly impressed). Roy was a liability, so it might be for the best for them that he’s gone.
Giants have the best front 4, but I’m not sold on their next 3. I think Pierce is done. Giants losing Spags could hurt them. Also if their Plax-less offense is ineffective, their defense will have spend more time on the field, and that could knock them down a few spots.
Im one of the people who think Canty isnt that good.
He doesnt play his heart out he could be good but gives up on plays NYG overpaid. To label Spencer isnt fair last year he was supposed to be the starter and got hurt this year is his year to see if he can be that person
The guy has a lot a potential, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays well this season. I’m not calling him terrible, or claiming he is a bust, way to soon for that. However its very hard to make the case he’s a slam dunk, better player than Gocong.
Ya i agree with that
You cant call people who havent proven them selves better than proven players. Spencers potential is alot more than gocongs but he has yet to prove anything on the field.
seriously dude??
we didnt add shit
the giants are the clear 1
perhaps you missed how well eli did at the end of the year without burress
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 27, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
were talking defences here man
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
either way
they lost spags too, i would hardly call them a clear number one
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 28, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
And we might lose JJ
So your point is moot. As much as Id like to say EAGLES ARE ZE BEST DEF!! You have to be realistic. I hope we turn out like that, but some people have to take off their Eagle blinders.
My point is far from moot
I think the success of Spags in NY screams volumes about how well JJ grooms his protege’s.
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 28, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, we were top last year
and most of our guys are young, The main argument for predicting we will be best next year is that no one else really improved enough to overtake us, and that our young guys will be better this year than last year.
As far as us losing Dawkins, I dont think this will be that big a deal. Our secondary is solid, and we got Hobbs and Sean Jones, and Demps is not a rookie and maybe Harris will play alright, and Mikell might improve as well. We really only need one of the above to work out for the loss of Dawkins to not hurt us, and I think it is likely that at least one of the above does work out.
The potential loss of Johnson (hope he gets well!) is probably a bigger deal. I would agree with the statement above that said Johnson takes bad players and makes them good. I dont think that we have bad players though right now, which is why we were top last year. Johnson cant take a last place defense and make them number 1, just number 2 ;)
Also, our turnovers were way low last year. I am not sure why that is, but given past years, I think it may have been bad luck. Maybe it was because a lot of our guys were young, or otherwise lacked the experience necessary to turn near interceptions into actual interceptions etc. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the amount of turnovers we cause this year goes up substantially. (also, I am not a big stat guy, so hopefully we were actually low in turnovers last year as opposed to previous years, I might be remembering things wrong).
The Eagles will definately be in the top 3 in the NFC, the Giants are the only team I think that can take the top spot, and maybe some team that no one expects will rise up, but that is about it.
seriously
why does every player on the eagles you guys think is good .. if they put me out there at rb you would say im good .. no one rips on anyone .. your all too damn nice .. klecko sucks .. gocong doesnt do shit .. mikkell is solid but not a star .. seldon is better than you ppl give him credit .. thats the problem with philly .. you would rather have a guy who works hard but has less talent .. aka ellis hobbs .. than sheldon brown .. who is a starter .. while hobbs is a league back up .. but beacuse sheldon wants to get paid you all bitch .. fuck this blue collar shit .. i want talent .. i would take TO over avant anyday ..
by jack is better than asante on May 27, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions
no one would say you’re good.. everyone rips on you.. klecko does suck.. gocong is a solid player who needs to elevate his game to become a playmaker.. mikell is solid and has the makings of a star safety, especially out of the shadow of #20.. sheldon is a stud.. easily a top 10 cb in this league.. I don’t believe ANYONE on this site would prefer ellis hobbs to sheldon brown – that’s ludicrous.. TO vs avant is a dumb argument that deserves no time of day
by andyreidswaistline on May 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
+REC
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 28, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think too many people really like Klecko, Gocong, or Hobbs all that much.
Klecko, when supported, is the realm of being a 4th DT. People aren’t singing his praises claiming he should start, or that he’s good enough to start on another team. They just think as depth players, and our potential 4th DT, he’s better than some 2nd team Sunbelt kid. That may or may not be the case, but I don’t see a huge homer bias in regards to him.
It seems people think Gocong is a solid player, but not too much more that. He is (as you almost always point out) a former DE. This could be spun as a positive, as he is still learning the position. That combined with his age, means there is a chance he could greatly improve. This is a big year for him to prove he can be a factor at LB. If he not, he may end up back at the DE position, to see if he can do that successfully against top tier talent. And again with Gocong, people are satisfied with his production, and think he’s OK, as maybe the weakest starter on the team. He’s not terrible and is still young. I don’t see anyone blowing him out proportion talking about how awesome he is.
If anyone think Hobbs should start, they are ridiculous. A lot of people got pissed at Sheldon when he made his move to get more money. But now that he is willing (at least it looks like it) to shut up and play, I think almost everyone knows how good he is, and that he should start. I believe few, in any, people would say otherwise.
Mikell was a 2nd team All Pro. He’s a complete player that while not amazing in any one area, can do everything well. We just had a Cowboys fan say he was I believe the 13th best safety in the NFL. This is the one guy in your rant, that a lot of people do really like, and think is really good. However, in this case he is also the most justified, as he’s clearly the best player out of those 4.
I guess I can’t argue with all the posts calling Avant a superstar, top tier WR. Oh wait, I don’t think I saw any. I’m assuming that was an exaggeration on your part. I will note however, that team chemistry does play a part in a team’s success. There is a reason teams who get a legit WR like TO don’t consistently win titles, or win them at all actually.
People are going to like Eagles players a little more than they should. That’s natural. I don’t think its out of hand at all, as you are implying. Being satisfied with a guy, and overrating him are two different things. People have a hometown Eagle bias, you have a he showed lots of talent in college bias. It’s just something we’re all going to have to deal with.
by FredEx on May 28, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Really?
Where are the mountains of posts proclaiming Reggie Brown to be #1 receiver quality? Where were the posts lamenting the loss of Considine? I think it’s not that hard to figure out: If a player is good and has a good attitude, we love him. If a player has good potential and a good attitude, we like him and are willing to be a bit patient. If a player is good, but has a bad attitude, we tolerate him. If a player has good potential, but a bad attitude, we tolerate him just a little bit. If a player sucks, attitude or not, we don’t like him. Klecko doesn’t suck at his actual position, but he did suck at FB. Everyone said so and clamored for a real FB. As a DT, he’s a decent backup. Gocong can be quite good and should be given a bit more time to come into his own. Sheldon is a top CB in this league, but his attitude several weeks ago was horrible. He cleaned it up, so now we leave him be. (BTW, way to go imploding your own argument. You claim we aren’t negative about anyone and then go on to tell us we are too negative about Sheldon…riiiight. Short memory span much?) If you would rather have TO than Avant…well, I would suggest being a Cowboys fan. They operate with that sort of mentality. It’s really working out too. Chemistry matters, if you can’t see that then I don’t think you know as much about football as you like to think you do. Talent without hard work, especially in a game like football, doesn’t mean much at all.
WTF??
How can you possibly call us homers when your f*ckin name is “jack is better than asante”. I think you are the one that is a homer and is being unrealistic. What basis do you have to make a claim like that other than the fact that “he is your boy”? NONE….and don’t be mistaken, if you ever played running back on a team, it would be in the lingerie league and nobody would think you were worth a shit just as they do now.
by Iggles Fan 4 Life on May 28, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
This from the guy that thinks Jack is better than Aante Samuel, and we haven’t even seen him on the field yet. You’re telling us to rip our players, how about you take a step back and admit that Jack hasn’t proven himself and isn’t better than Asante at this moment in time.
Brian Dawkins for President
yea bs
none of you can admit eagles players arnt that good .. TO vs avant isnt an argument .. its like a 100 dollar bill vs a penny .. what do u want .. and im realistic .. i know gocong cant play lb .. i know klecko sucks .. i think jack is going to be better than asante .. hes certainly more talented .. but well see .. jack can be if he wants to be .. my problem is you all loved sheldon than he asks for more money or out and you hate him .. its unloyal .. idc wha asante does .. i will not like him .. i keep my opinions
by jack is better than asante on May 29, 2009 2:27 AM EDT reply actions
(more) bs
i keep my opinions
Are the fans that wanted Ricky Williams not allowed to like McNabb? Did TO supporters in Philly have to root for him to help Dallas win games? If a Dallas fan hated TO for his time in Philly were they not allowed to root for him once Dallas acquired him? Did anyone who supported the drafting of Freddie Mitchell have to claim he is a great player (Which he is, just ask him). His performance showed otherwise and people adjusted accordingly.
If Sheldon were to refuse to play without a new deal, that would be disloyal to his contract, the team and the fans. He is a great player and is allowed to want more money, but if he stops playing the fans are allowed to turn on him. If he does the Boldin, shuts up and plays and is just pissed, that’s OK with me, and I don’t think too many fans will ‘hate’ him for it. I don’t think anyone will want Hobbs to start instead of him. Just because fans liked him, doesn’t mean they have to want him to get paid. That’s illogical. If the front office did that, anyone and everyone would start looking for money. I think the front office did the correct thing.
Opinions are allowed to change as new events happen. If your girlfriend cheats on you, I don’t think its “unloyal” to not feel the same way about her anymore.
If Peters gives up a ton of sacks this year, I think everyone is allowed to say that acquiring him was a bad move, regardless of your prior judgment. You’d be foolish to hold your stance that he’s a legit top tier tackle if that were to happen. If someone thinks it was a terrible trade because of his sacks allowed, and he goes nuts and allows the least in the league, that person is allowed to have been wrong, and now support him as a great player. Opinions change based on facts/actions. Going into the season after this one, people’s thoughts and exceptions on Peters are going to be based off what he does this coming season, not their opinion they currently hold.
Most fans will support the Eagles that play well, and get on the ones who don’t. This doesn’t have to be a dick swinging contest of who supported who first, or who rightly predicted what.
none of you can admit eagles players arnt that good
I’ll give you that decent amount of (usually slight) overrating happens, but you’re really overselling your arguement. A decent portion of people want Reggie Brown cut after his play last season. I don’t think anyone agreed with Avant breaking out this year (when a sports writer threw it out there for everyone to just get excited about and agree with). People weren’t calling for the front office to pay Sheldon whatever he wanted. People knew Greg Lewis and Considine were terrible and had to go. I don’t think anyone thinks our OLBs are anything more than solid at best.
As for Gocong, he shouldn’t be any worse than last season, and that was not terrible. He has a much higher floor than Spencer, who you’d rather have due his talent. Granted, Spencer’s ceiling is higher, but do you really think Eagles fans are ridiculous for sticking with a young, theoretically improving OLB, who is still learning the position, over a talent who may or may not do anything? I can understand either side of that one, but somehow anyone on Gocong’s side is apparently vastly overrating him, and proclaiming he is the man.
Letting Klecko be a 4th DT, and giving Gocong another season to start doesn’t equate to anyone saying they are real good, or overrating them at all. People just don’t think anyone in house, or anyone sitting on the scrap heap are better options. It’s possible they are wrong, but I don’t you can say anyone is being a homer or off base for thinking so. You can’t field a team of 53 All Pro players.
my problem is you all loved sheldon than he asks for more money or out and you hate him .. its unloyal
My loyalty remains with the Eagles not the players. You can player hop if you want but I’m an Eagles fan.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Agreed...
And I’ll add that Sheldon Brown was easily one of my 5 favorite players… until he starting being a detriment to the team by pointing at other players’ contracts. It’s not unloyal at all. If one of my 5 best friends hits on my girlfriend or punches me in the face for no reason, then yeah, he’s not gonna be as good a friend anymore. Same concept applies with Sheldon Brown… You start acting like a douche, and you’re gonna lose support.
i keep my opinions
No matter how wrong or fucked up they are!
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 30, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
disagree
if my boy hits on my girl. . ill be pissed but hes still my boy .. and im loyal toward the players .. i still love TO .. i always have and always will .. jacobs and LJ .. mcnabb .. i like players and i like them no matter what .. i keep my opinions .. bad play is diff than contracts .. sheldon wants money .. hes a good player .. its his personal right to ask for more money .. hes vastly underpaid .. and he only has a few years left .. if he didnt ask for more money id think he was an idiot .. so yea sheldon is still my boy .. and i respect him more for going out and trying to get what he deseves .. peters did it .. it worked for him ..
by jack is better than asante on May 29, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
It ain’t no fun if the homies can’t have none?
by JimmyK on May 29, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So...
if McNabb wants out of Philly and wants to play for Dallas, you’re still gonna like him? nah nah not me. Loyalty Loyalty Loyalty
Brian Dawkins for President
yea
mcnabb is still mcnabb .. i like the player .. i still love TO
by jack is better than asante on May 30, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, we all get what you're saying about loyalty to they players
But there is a special exception when a player goes to the dark side and don’s a blue star on his helmet. I was a huge Joe Montana fan, and I still loved watching him play in KC, but if he would have moved to Dallas, that would have been another story.
I think that most people in here are physically unable to root for anyone on that team.
I can tell you that I was a HUGE TO fan. Loved him in SF. I even got to have lunch with him right before he came here. I was stationed out in Hawaii, and he was visiting service members while he was out there for the Pro Bowl. I remember how thrilled I was when he told me his “favorite color was green” when I asked him where he was gonna play next year. (I misunderstood him, he meant money)
Anyway, he fucked us. He acted like a jerk off, a total disgrace. Any admiration I felt for the guy went out the window when he screwed us over the way he did. It turned to straight up hatred when he went to Dallas. That was just like salt in the wound.
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 30, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
well
i still love TO .. he got fucked .. he was asked if the eagles were better with favre and he said yes .. ofcourse they are .. favre is the best qb of all time .. if not deff top 3 .. and he told the truth .. i respect that .. and theres nothing wrong with calling out a player who performed bad in the superbowl .. donavon .. the jets called out favre .. no one kicked thomas jones off for it ..
by jack is better than asante on May 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Because he is 14 years old
and its still Bro’s before Ho’s
"I want to maintain my flexibility."
-Andy Reid
by BroadStBullies on May 30, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Eagles D isn;'t even best in the division
let alone the league….
I think the Giants are a few steps ahead.
That said, Id put the Giants and Eagles right up with the Ravens as the 1A defenses in the league tho, with of course the Steelers at #1.
well considering our division....
you’re right. We might not be the best defense in the division cuz two of the best defenses in the league are in our division… Eags and Giants. There was an article written a while back that mentioned that our 2004 defense was one of the best defenses of all time according to…. i forget what the source was but i remember it being a credible one. When we compared our defensive positions player by player, the 2009 season (on paper) seemed significantly better.
Now it sounds like i’m saying we will have the best defense of all-time, which is a stretch to say the least, but never count us out.
Eagles.
by #1EaglesFan on May 31, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll never count the ealges D out of course
As long as Jim Johnson is there, and I wish him the best tho I haven’t heard anything since he took his leave, the eagles will always have a good defense.
The Giants to me just shored up too many positions, DT where the line was quite tired last season and don’t forget Osi as essentially another pickup. THat’s a lot of very good players they added to the line.
Another problem was covering guys like Westbrook, and Michael Boley has the speed to at least cover Westbrook tho I doubt he’ll be able to stop him for 2 (or 3 most likely….) games this season.
And you can’t discount the LB and seondary unit for the Giants being extremely young and getting more experience, Phillips, Terrel Thomas, even Corey Webster emerging as one of the better corners in the game.
I checked a depth chart and just looking, I really can’t see how the Eagles 2009 D is significantly better than the Giants 2009 D. I mean they are pretty equal up and down. The secondaries are similar, Sameul is probably the best of the bunch, but Webster is very good too. The safeties Id give the edge to the Gaints now, especially as Michael Johnson is emerging and Kenny Phillips is in his 2nd year.
All the rest are pretty equal, except for that Tuck guy. The Eagles have no one the caliber of Tuck.
check that
Quiton Mikael as 2nd team all-pro probably gives the overall secondary edge to the Eagles.
Eagles have always had the better secondary of the 2 teams IMO.
Still, both teams rely on the pass rush, and the 2 best of the bunch play at the Meadowlands.
no way
kenny phillips is hands down better than mikkell .. hes getting better .. mikkell is a decent player .nothing special
by jack is better than asante on Jun 6, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
???
Are you an Eagles fan? Do you just speak random nonsense?
Im a Giants fan and I know that’s not true. Phillips I think has as much potential as any former Miami safety, but he hasn’t shown it yet. Mikell was 2nd team all-pro. you don’t make any All-Pro team for nothing, unlike the Pro Bowl.
Phillips may end up being the better player this season, just like Jason Peters may end up being better than Dave Diehl this season, but it just hasn’t happened yet.
Are you an Eagles fan? Do you just speak random nonsense?
Good analysis. I like you analysis on the defenses as well.
Giants definitely have the advantage up front. Tuck and Osi are monsters. I don’t think Canty is as good as a lot of people are saying, but (potential overpaying aside) its definitely a good pick for the Giants. I personally like the Eagles DT’s better with Bunkley and Patterson.
At linebacker, Boley has the speed to theoretically cover the guys like Westbrook, that Pierce can not. He was in the doghouse in Atlanta, but a change of scenery and lots of talent in front of him could bring him back. As you stated the Giants youth at linebacker, same goes for Philly. They are young and theoretically improving as well. If I were a Giants fan I’d worry about how Pierce played down the stretch. I think there is a good chance he lost it, and will decline.
Webster gets overlooked by a lot of people, he’s really solid. However Asante, Sheldon, and Jack (who’s better than both of them) are tough to guys to compete with. As good as he may be, he’s still 3rd on the list in my opinion. And agreeing with you once more, regardless of how high Phillips ceiling is, for this season you have to go with Mikell.
Pierce
I know a lot of people say he’s lost it, I don’t know. He still was the QB of the defense. I do think there were a few nagging injuries that cost him too, he was in and out for a lot of series toward the end of the season.
As for Canty, I know lots think the Giants overpaid. I’d agree based on his past production, but I just don’t know that he was used to his full potential nor was he appreciated for how good he really was.
3-4 OLB’s don’t get their sacks if the DE doesn’t occupy the blockers ahead of him. Canty was double teamed every play and Demarcus Ware had plenty of sacks lining up near Canty,
Dallass fans also give credit to Jay Ratliff for some reason, but you also have to factor in that the other team was focused on Canty too.
Eagles starting DT’s are better, but when you consider a guy like Jay Alford, who’s pretty damn good, is the 5th DT behind Canty, Robbins, Cofield, and Bernard, the Giants have incredible depth there.
And Tuck sometimes dabbles as a DT…Is it September yet?
Valid point with Pierce, you never know if or how much injuries are at play. Some guys have such a short shelf life in league you never know. He’s over 30 and he was real bad down the stretch. Could be something, could be nothing.
It is tough to tell what went on with Dallas. Teams had to divide attention between Ware, Ratliff (who made the Pro Bowl (for what that’s worth), and Canty.
Also big X-factors in Jim Johnson’s health and the loss of Spagnuolo. Both teams have lots of talent on the field, but both those guys are amazing.
September can’t come soon enough.
no way
peters is already better than diehl .. not even close .. and phiilips is good .. he can be a pro bowl saftey .. mikkell is average .. he will be lucky to still be starting in 2 years when demps emerges
by jack is better than asante on Jun 7, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, because Mikell and Demps play the same safety spot…
And I have no idea why you think Mikell is only “average”. Why is that so?
Moo.
by Imp on Jun 7, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I think he’s much better than average, and at least as of today, better than Phillips.
1st year as a full time starter, over 90 tackles, 3 picks, 9 pass defended, 2 sacks.
And I still love him owning MB3 at the goal line.
JIBTA
I don’t know where you get this Peters>>>>>Diehl crap.
Its like comparing Trent Cole and Osi Umenyiora. Osi gets all teh accolades cuz he’s had some really high sack totals. Cole is underrated for some reason, tho the dude gets it done every game. Peters has been to more pro-bowls and one more all-pro, but they really aren’t any different.
They are equal. Cole and Osi have their faults in the run game, tho while I don’t see Cole all that much Im sure that like Osi they get the job done during running plays too. And of course both can get after the QB.
Peters and Diehl aren’t the greatest pass blockers, BUT they are BOTH DOMINANT RUN BLOCKERS. The Giants run to the left side a lot, Diehl plays on the left side, 1+1 = 2 and Diehl is very good
Brandon Jacobs is one thing, but when the hole for him to run through one the left side is 10 yards wide, who the hell do you think opened the whole up?
THe Giants could plug Lorenzo Booker behind their line and he’d still get 1200 yards if he stayed healthy
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 7, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
And yea
Phillips may eventually be Pro-Bowler, tho Id rather have All-Pro cuz Pro-Bowl means shit.
Mikeal already was 2nd team all-pro, meaning he was one of the Top 10 safeties in the league last season. That’s pretty good and way above average.
Just cuz Madden 2010 doesn’t rate these guys the way they should be doesn’t mean a damn thing. These guys are good and when you argue in one’s favor its like apples and oranges.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 7, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
you hate quintin mikell, JIBTA.
I’VE SEEN IT FOR MONTHS. when he makes the pro-bowl, you are going to eat it.
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