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Does Vick deserve a second chance?

First off, I realize this is not eagles related, but seeing as we are knee deep in the offseason, why not have something to talk about. 

 

ESPN has been doing a special on vick for the past hour or so because he is elligible to leave prison for house arrest at midnight tonight.  The special has posed such questions as can he still play, did the game pass him by, who would take him, and will he be reinstated.  While all of these are good questions, one question they blew by as having an implicit answer was "does he deserve a second chance".  Each commentator on the show claimed "of couse he deserves a second chance" as a preface to their further comments.  My question...

 

Does he deserve it?

 

 

Star-divide

Taking a look at the history of Michael Vick, sans dog fighting, the answer to me in an unequivocal no.  Here is a list of early incidents, taken from wikipedia. 

 

Between his selection by the Atlanta Falcons in the 2001 NFL Draft and early 2007, Vick was allegedly involved several incidents or events:

  • In 2007, conflicting statements were made by his estranged parents about possible dogfighting activities in 2001. Michael Boddie, his father, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that around 2001, Michael Vick was staging dogfights in the garage of the family's home in Newport News and kept fighting dogs in the family's backyard, including injured ones which the father nursed back to health. Boddie said his son had been urged to not engage in the activity, but continued. He stated "This is Mike's thing. And he knows it."[43] Within days, Michael Vick's mother, Brenda Vick Boddie, told the Newport News Daily Press "There was no dogfighting [at our home]. There were no cages."[44]
  • In early 2004, two men were arrested in Virginia for distributing marijuana. The truck they were driving was registered to Michael Vick. Falcons coach Dan Reeves recalled that he lectured Vick at that time on the importance of reputation, on choosing the right friends, on staying out of trouble for the good of his team. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution quoted Reeves as having told Vick: "You are an Atlanta Falcon...Whatever you do is going to be a reflection on all of us, not just you."[45]
  • On October 10, 2004, Vick and the other members of his party including employee Quanis Phillips were at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport on their way to board an AirTran flight. While they were passing through a security checkpoint with Vick, a security camera caught Phillips and Todd Harris picking up an expensive-appearing watch (either a Rolex or a fake) which belonged to Alvin Spencer, a security screener.[46] After watching the theft on a video tape, Spencer filed a police report. However, he claimed that Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, known as the Falcons' "fixer", interfered with the investigation.[45] Although Vick representatives declined to make him available for an Atlanta police inquiry, six days later Spencer did get the watch back from them, according to the Washington Post.[46]
  • In March 2005, Sonya Elliott filed a civil lawsuit against Vick alleging she contracted genital herpes from him in the autumn of 2002, and that he failed to inform her that he had the disease.[47] Elliot further alleged that Vick had visited clinics under the alias "Ron Mexico" to get treatments and thus he knew of his condition. On April 24, 2006 Vick's attorney, Lawrence Woodward, revealed that the lawsuit had been settled out of court under undisclosed terms.[48] Many fans bought custom jerseys from NFL.com with Vick's number 7 and the name "MEXICO" on the back, as a reference to his lawsuit. The NFL has since banned customizing jerseys with the name Mexico.[49]
  • November 26, 2006 – After a Falcons loss to the New Orleans Saints in the Georgia Dome, in apparent reaction to fans booing, Vick made an obscene gesture at fans, holding up two middle fingers. He was fined $10,000 by the NFL and agreed to donate another $10,000 to charity.[50]
  • January 17, 2007 – Vick surrendered a water bottle which had a hidden compartment to security personnel at Miami International Airport. "The compartment was hidden by the bottle's label so that it appeared to be a full bottle of water when held upright," police said. Test results indicated there were no illegal substances in the water bottle and Vick was cleared of any wrongdoing.[51] Vick announced that the water bottle was a jewelry stash box, and that the substance in question had been jewelry.[52]
  • To me, there are several red flags that show that he has already used his second, third, and maybe more chances.  This man has been involved in more criminal activity and wrongdoing than I find acceptable.  Between the connections to drug dealing, flicking off the fans, allegedly stealing the watch, and other criminal inquiries surrounding this man, I feel he has received more than his fair chance.  Now, after serving a sentence for felony charges, the question is should he be allowed to return to the league.  The Commish says if he shows true remorse, then he'll allow it.  But what is true remorse?  Is it the PR machine we're about to see in full throttle?  The one where Vick volunteers to help fight underground dog fighting?  Where he stands in front of a camera and reads a script written by one of his lawyers?  Is that what constitutes true remorse if you're a talented athlete?  For me, the answer is no.  But I felt it would be interesting to see what the rest of eagle nation thought of this situation during a rather slow time in the football world.
  • Poll
    Should Michael Vick be allowed to play in the NFL again?
    Yes
    133 votes
    No
    83 votes

    216 votes | Poll has closed

    Comment 59 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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    If I were a team that needed a QB

    and I thought he was mature enough to start working his butt off to be a starting QB I would give him a shot. I would not sign him to be a WR or a Wild Cat specialist however because to me this is a boom or bust thing. The backlash of signing him from the public and PETA would be so huge that unless he was going to be a major contributer I do not think it would be worth it.

    Let's get it.

    by homestar2281 on May 19, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

    Absolutely he deserves another chance.

    It boggles the mind that so many people think Vick should be banned for life, yet didn’t bat an eye when Leonard Little was banned from the league, and wouldn’t bat an eye if Donte Stallworth were allowed back in the league after his prison sentence, and didn’t bat an eye when Ray Lewis came back after his murder trial, etc.

    by wildcatlh on May 19, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

    er, that should be “didn’t bat an eye when Leonard Little was allowed back into the league”

    by wildcatlh on May 19, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Ugh

    The fact that Leonard Little walks free, let alone plays football, is an absolute disgrace.

    by JasonB on May 21, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

    i'm with you here....

    i don’t condone animal cruelty, but there have been worse things done by individuals in the nfl than dogfighting. would i let him around my dog? absolutely not. leonard little still gets a paycheck. i highly doubt his success when he plays again. all i’m saying is the guy did his time. let the guy work.

    by snowhill82 on May 19, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

    meh

    it’s a little different. I don’t want to mitigate what Little and Stallworth have done. My intention is only to show that planning to and executing the torture and murder of a defenseless animal is miles away from having to much to drink and getting behind the wheel of a car.

    I am not defending or condoning drinking and driving, but I am willing to bet that Leonard Little didn’t sit there one day and say “hey I’m going to drink this fifth of vodka hop in my car and try to run some people over”.

    There is no doubt that both these crimes are wrong in there own right, it just takes a different type of person to be able to do what Vick did.

    "The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009

    by Whodie126 on May 20, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

    I'm with you.

    Everyone likes to say killing a person is way worse than killing a dog. Well sure, but that glosses over the real crime. Vick didn’t just put some dogs into a dogfight here and there; he organized and ran an entire dogfighting organization. That is a major crime. That is similar to running a small cartel or a mafia family. It’s organized crime. The fact that it revolved around brutalizing innocent animals makes it rather disgusting in my mind. (At least mafia families tend to cause harm only to people who are already rather unscrupulous.) Should he be allowed back in? I don’t think so personally, but he will be anyway most likely. I just hope he makes the most of his “second” chance.

    by NOLACuse on May 20, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Total agreement

    First, I also am not condoning drinking and driving but deaths arising from those cases are accidental. What Vick did was intentional. Regardless, I DO bat an eye at the fact that Little is still in the NFL. He shouldn’t be. I am guessing he is still there because his conviction was wipe out. If Stallworth is convicted, he should not be allowed back either. Finally, Ray Lewis was not convicted of anything whatsoever. As Goodell has stated many times, playing in the NFL is a “privilege” not a right. Should Vick get a second shot at life? Absolutely! Should he get a second shot in the NFL where your public persona is almost as important to the job as your play on the field (See opinions of D McNabb)? Hell no.

    by Dawk on May 20, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

    No

    Little was convicted of DUI several times until he finally killed someone. That was no accident.

    by JasonB on May 21, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Killing someone while driving drunk can be charged a couple of ways depending on state laws and circumstances.
    A. Negligent Homicide
    B. Vehiclular manslaughter
    Either way the act was not premedidtated or on purpous.
    They were accidents, but you can squeeze your ass cheeks together for hours everytime you have diarrhea, eventually you’re going to shit yourself, it doesn’t mean you did it on purpose, but it’s still 100% your fault.

    Astra Inclanant, Non Necessitant

    by EagleGreeninMD on May 21, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Well if you get behind the wheel of a car drunk, especially after being punished for it in the past and having your license revoked… Can it really be seen as an accident when you crash the car? It’s pretty much an inevitability. In fact, I don’t think that was even his first crash.

    I get what you’re saying though… and that was fantastic analogy!

    by JasonB on May 21, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

    JasonB; You are human and inevitably are going to die. Does that mean when you do it is on purpose?

    (I am NOT defending his actions at all)

    Just like a friendly debate.

    Astra Inclanant, Non Necessitant

    by EagleGreeninMD on May 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Let me start by saying I was paralyzed from the waist down in a car accident in 1986 when I was 17, to give you a little bit of my background. I was not involved in a drunk driving accident, but in the 3 1/2 months I spent as an in-patient at Bryn Mawr Rehab I saw some really horrific injuries as a result of DUI that left people horribly maimed and disabled for life. All that said, I think what Michael Vick has done is worse than DUI because it is premeditated cruelty. If you can knowingly inflict pain on another living being again and again, you are just a cruel person. DUI is not a result of cruelty; it’s more a result of selfishness and irresponsibility. I have to believe a drunk driver has some feeling of remorse after he has either injured or killed a person after an accident. I don’t think he went out there with the intent to kill or injure. It’s more an attitude of, "It won’t happen to me."

    Does that mean I excuse drunk driving? Hell no! I saw enough things at Bryn Mawr to make me believe that DUI is not taken seriously enough. But from purely a human behavior standpoint, I believe that cruelty to animals is a bigger indicator of a lack morality and decency than DUI.

    All that said, I see both arguments when it comes to letting Vick back into the league. As a person, he’s a piece of shit. The animal cruelty combined with knowingly giving herpes to a woman tells me he does not care who he hurts and has no real sense of conscience. There are employers out there who make you sign a morality clause to your employment contract. I clearly think Michael Vick has violated that and the NFL is a league that wants their players to be good citizens.

    But on the flip side, if letting Michael Vick come back and play in the NFL puts him on the right track to truly becoming a good citizen then I have to say you can’t deny him that opportunity. Who am I to judge that he can’t truly change, grow, and acquire a sense of humanity and a real conscience?

    I guess I’m leaning on the side of letting him play, but I don’t necessarily disagree with anyone who feels he should be banned for life.

    I’ll also add this to my exceedingly long post:


    by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on May 22, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Whether or not he deserves it

    someone will offer him a deal eventually, barring league sentencing. If a QB goes down early in the year (like a Brad Johnson in for Romo situation) or a team is desperate for a back-up, he’ll at least get a strong look from some ball clubs. It’s easy for a coach or GM to say that Vick’s paid his dept to society if their asses are on the hot seat.

    "Now Sav Rocca played for the Magpies in Australia. I don't know if it's a bird or a pie or what it is." Ike Reese

    by The Badassador on May 19, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

    In a league of criminals

    Why are ppl worried about vick not coming back? I say this tha man fucked up who doesnt? I dont think he actually did the killin of the animals and bankrolling it is jus as bad dont get me wrong what he did was terrible. But thats whats life is about learning and im sure he learned from what he did. Tha man did 2 years been out of football for 3 and he lost all his endorsements, is in a whole other world of debt also he has lost millions of fans. Now he is trying to get a legit jod something he prolly hasnt dun since he was younger and now you tell him he cannot play football? I mean the man is gettin older and it may be possible that his talents are still close to the caliber they were before but not for long. LET VICK COME BACK. This is a league that has criminals. They let pacman bac and he supposedly is linked to murder of a human not a dog.

    by birdsflyinhigh2590 on May 19, 2009 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

    its a little different

    when your killing something defenseless

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 19, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

    So killing animals is worse than killing humans somehow? Huh?

    What Leonard Little did, and what Donte Stallworth (allegedly) did is MILES worse than anything Vick has done.

    by wildcatlh on May 19, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

    for me, though, they shouldn’t be allowed in the league either. i realize there are criminals, and people make mistakes. Killing a human being while driving drunk is not an acceptable mistake to make. Killing dogs to make some money is not an acceptable mistake either…especially when you’re making millions in endorsements, and the reason you’re running the dog fighting ring is seemingly more for fun (which is disgusting, in itself) than for the money.

    by eagleyosh on May 19, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

    wildcatlh

    dont ever put words in my mouth …

    its a little different when your killing something defenseless

    where in here did i state murder of a human being is acceptable ?

    i was simply stating that to torture a creature (human or dog) shows how much more twisted and fked up you are …. to inflict this type of pain on a creature and be able to continue inflicting this pain on a creature with no regard to your consequences IMHO shows how much more defining of how sick this person is …

    its easy to pull a trigger in the blink of second out of fear in defense or in aggression …

    but to “electrocute” “choke” “beat” “whip” and “rape” a dog for the sole purpose to get him to fight or because you upset with its performance in a fight , something is wrong with your head …

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 19, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

    blink of an eye

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 19, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

    It's also said

    That people who kill animals are sociopaths—all the serial killers started out by killing animals before they starting murdering people. I’m not saying Vick is going to be a serial killer, but I am saying there’s something seriously wrong with someone who thinks it’s OK to strangle an innocent animal with his bare hands.

    by doubleh on May 19, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

    thank you sir

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 20, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Can't compare the two.

    Vick killed dozens of animals as far as we know and he ran a criminal organization. That’s actually quite a bit worse than what essentially is a mistake. Killing someone while drunk driving is rarely pre-meditated. It’s horrible, it’s negligent, and I think it should result in a lot, a lot of jail time; however, Vick was the godfather of a criminal organization. He committed crimes over and over and over. And they were all pre-meditated. In the eyes of the law that is a much bigger deal. You could argue that a drug king pin rarely kills anyone at all. Should they be left alone or given only brief prison sentences?

    by NOLACuse on May 20, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Killing someone while drunk is NOT a mistake. Forgetting to pick something up at the grocery store is a mistake. Forgetting to call a client back at work is a mistake. Driving drunk and killing someone is NOT a mistake. It’s a crime that should have a real punishment, and for some reason it doesn’t.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

    he drove drunk, therefore he is fully responsible

    he killed a man , and should serve what the jury deems necessary … but to assume that he legitimately had intentions to kill someone before getting in to his car is ridiculous … excusable ? hell f no … drunk driving is horrible and needs to me pre meditated on better and i wouldn’t be apposed to giving stallworth a long sentence …

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 20, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Fine, let's not call it a mistake.

    What would you call it? Pre-meditated? I don’t think so. You are fully responsible for your actions and in my opinion if you kill someone while driving drunk you should face a hell of a lot of hard time. But that doesn’t mean that it is a pre-meditated action. The drunk driving can be argued as pre-meditated, but not the death. Manslaughter is a real crime. One you serve time for. But it is basically a mistake. A horrible, horrible mistake. My point is not that Little and Stallworth don’t deserve long prison sentences (IMO they do); my point is that Vick’s numerous crimes were all pre-meditated while Little and Stallworth’s were not.

    by NOLACuse on May 20, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

    One could make the argument that a DUI resulting in a death is premeditated (premeditation, under the law, doesn’t have to be a long-ranging thing…. it can come into play right before you decide to pull the trigger). But even if you don’t make that argument, I’m all for treating it as second degree murder (murder by conduct that is so reckless or wanton that it’s likely to result in death or serious bodily injury). To call it a mistake trivializes it, even if you’re all for punishment. Leonard Little did 90 days in jail for his DUI manslaughter. 90 days for killing someone, and about a half season’s suspension from the league. Is that justice?

    I love my animals. But in my book, harm done to animals will never be on the same level as harm done to humans. For the same reason as the above, I think any of the NFL players who have been convicted of beating their wives/girlfriends/etc. deserve far, far harsher punishments for the same reason.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't have a problem with harsher punishments for DUIs, etc.

    Little should have served much more time. Much, much more. But I think people are trivializing Vick’s actions by saying “he only killed dogs, not people”. The killing of the dogs is the tip of the iceberg with him. He deserved long punishment because he organized and ran an intrastate criminal organization. The fact that it revolved around killing dogs just makes it that much worse. If Vick was serving more time than others for simply entering into a few dogfights, then no, the punishment may have not have been right when compared to the others. Little and Stallworth both deserve years worth of prison, not months or days. But so did Vick. While their crimes were singular, his were many times over and planned out.
    I can buy that the act of driving drunk is premeditated and therefore so is the act of recklessness and negligence. I think second-degree murder is totally justified. But that still doesn’t make the actual murder premeditated. You could say the fact that Little’s crime resulted in dead people means he should have a worse sentence than Vick because Vick only killed dogs, but that ignores the fact that Vick had long term plans of felonies that crossed state lines.
    I think there are really two types of crimes here. Vick should be compared to drug king-pins and mob bosses when talking about his sentence because that’s really more in line with what he did. Little and Stallworth committed separate types of crimes and shouldn’t be compared to Vick’s. All of them deserve a lot of jail time, but for different reasons.

    by NOLACuse on May 20, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

    If he had ever been tried/convicted of charges of animal cruelty relating to the dogfighting, I’d agree with you. But it never happened. The charges he was tried/convicted of had to do with conspiracy to run the interstate dogfighting ring and conspiracy to commit interstate gambling offenses.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Well then doesn't that make my point for me?

    Vick was convicted of the types of crimes you find mafia dons convicted of. Comparing Vick’s sentence to Little’s or Stallworth’s doesn’t make any sense really. Vick was sentenced based on different types of crimes altogether. Vick deserved the time he got (and probably more considering he got out of the animal cruelty charges), but some of these other guys deserve way more than they got. Really then the issue is, why is it so easy to plea down DUI death cases?

    (And I think the animal cruelty charges were tossed as part of a plea deal, so they are still relevant, just not for sentencing.)

    by NOLACuse on May 20, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Vick has a legitimate job

    Doing construction for ten dollars an hour.

    "Now Sav Rocca played for the Magpies in Australia. I don't know if it's a bird or a pie or what it is." Ike Reese

    by The Badassador on May 19, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

    hell yea ...

    hell be killer on the construction crew softball team

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 19, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Potential good fits for Vick

    New England, Seattle, Dallas, San Francisco

    The ideal road for him is to go somewhere that already has a high profile QB and/or Coach, establish himself as simply an NFL player for two seasons. During that time he’ll likely be given some small opportunity to showcase his skills once again, giving him a chance to get a semi decent contract when he becomes a free agent in a few seasons.

    by andyreidswaistline on May 19, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions  

    Is jerry jones just going to pick him up at prison, or will he just be waiting at Vick’s house?

    I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.

    by BrianS on May 20, 2009 8:39 AM EDT reply actions  

    jerry jones

    probly would of payed his bail , if he could

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 20, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

    Ha

    REC!


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don’t care what happens with this dude.
    I have been given so many chances in life it’s not my place to judge.
    I volunteer with animal shelters occasionally and my wifey is always watching the Animal Planet cops show and if I ever came across someone beating a dog, I would drop him. Sometimes it’s hard to control your emotions when your a 6’2" 225lb MMA trained, testosterone fueled nutball. but I digress ….. Whats done is done, and I would never root for this guy, but I will not want to prevent him from bettering himself either, because it can happen. I just hope that one day he will truely come realize the value and fragility of all life and that it is a thing to be grateful for and not destroyed at will.
    I have had Boxers and Bulldogs my whole life and I can tell you they are part of my family.

    Astra Inclanant, Non Necessitant

    by EagleGreeninMD on May 20, 2009 9:11 AM EDT reply actions  

    One thing I will say...

    I’ve stated that I don’t think he should be punished further for the dogfighting, which I continue to believe.

    However, something that’s not looked at and should be considered worse, at least in the eyes of the NFL, was the gambling. The gambling — not the dogfighting — is likely what drew Vick to do what he did. And the gambling — not the dogfighting — is what threatens to genuinely hurt the NFL. If he’s going to be let in, his links to gambling are going to have to be looked at very, very closely.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

    i still think the brutal torturing and murdering of creatures out weighs vicks gambling problem by a long shot … i could care less if the guy blows his money on the horse races … now if your hinting that he may be throwing games for profit then yes that can be quite serious …. but the dog raping issues should be enough to not even let this punk through the doors in the first place… i dont understand how any dog owner could forgive him … assuming that there is a good few people who do that will be responsible in determining if vick can come back

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 20, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

    Firstly, I have two dogs, and yes, I consider what Vick did to be beyond awful.

    But, at the same time, it’s not about “forgiving” him. I’m not sure that forgiveness even comes into play. It’s about whether his actions were egregious enough to deserve a lifetime ban from the NFL. And considering the kind of conduct that NFL players have taken part in, even under the regime of Roger Goodell, and recieved punishments ranging from a few games to a year, I can’t justify how banning Vick for life makes sense. Want to ban him for another year, and watch him, and see how he’s actually remorseful and see what kind of work he does (for example, what he does with the offer from the Humane Society to work with them) before letting him back in? No problem with that. But saying he doesn’t deserve to come back at all? Can’t agree with it at all.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I say ban him for life!
    It’s about whether his actions were egregious enough to deserve a lifetime ban from the NFL.

    If the dog fighting thing was his first fuck up, I’d say, do your time and get on with it, but this jerk off has already had like 5 “2nd” chances. At what point do you say enough is enough and cut ties. It drives me CRAZY when assholes like this, who are afforded every opportunity in life just don’t get it. He looks at his job in the NFL as a RIGHT not a privilege.

    Maybe it’s because I got laid off and am out of work that I’m so bitter about this guy but man, if I got a job making anywhere near what he made, I’d be afraid of leaving the house so I didn’t fuck that up. This asshole just screws up over and over again and doesn’t even consider the fact that there could be long term repercussions for his actions, because there never are any.

    He wasn’t that good of a QB to begin with, more like a glorified RB. Seriously, if the Eagles took him on, I’d have to find a new team. Let him go make $50/week in the Arena league to see how good he had it.


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

    What else did he do though?

    The watch-stealing incident at Hartsfield: He didn’t do anything except for keep his mouth shut when he should’ve said something, but that’s not illegal. It was his employees, not him.

    The Miami Airport incident: Stupid, but not a crime.

    Ron Mexico: Even if true, disgusting, but not a crime, and unfortunately several thousand guys probably did the same thing last night.

    Drug dealing connections: If there were any, he would’ve been arrested, even if it was silly and tenuous (see: Lewis, Jamal). Hanging out with the wrong crowd: again, stupid, but not a crime.

    Flipping off the fans: Alright, lets be honest. Heat of the moment. Back in the mid-90s Brian Cox did the same thing as a member of the Dolphins while walking off the field in Buffalo, and he was hailed as a hero in Miami for it.

    All the incidents above show me that he’s a complete moron… but that’s about it.

    And look. I AM NOT DEFENDING WHAT VICK DID IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. He’s an abysmal human being who can go away forever for all I care. But to ban him from employment with the NFL for life because of this incident is ridiculous. That’s all I’m saying.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

    alright, maybe the ban him for life thing is just me being bitter

    but

    What else did he do though?

    You made a pretty nice list yourself. While the things you listed might not be crimes, any and all of them (individually even) would certainly be cause for termination from most jobs, especially if the incident went public (which ALL of them did).

    All I’m saying is I lost a mediocre paying job through no fault of my own, just a shitty economy. I hardly think its fair that a person who fucks up as much as this asshole did should get another chance at making millions. Fuck him, let him search for work like the rest of us!

    Maybe I’m being overly bitter, but what ever, its how I feel.


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

    While I agree with you… to be fair, if you had done most of that stuff… nobody would’ve ever known about it. The fact that it became public was a function of his celebrity, not his actions.

    As for “let him search for work like the rest of us”… isn’t that all he’s trying to do?

    I hate that I’m put in the position of defending this man. I just try to be realistic.

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

    isn’t that all he’s trying to do?

    No, he’s looking to get right back to where he was. I say he DOES NOT deserve it! This asshole is even getting a reality show out of this whole ordeal! It kills me, I mean I get really worked up that this guy had EVERYTHING, but that wasn’t enough. He had to push the envelope. I don’t care where you grew up, or what culture you come from. If you were making the kind of money Vick was making, if you don’t have the common sense to do everything you can to sustain that….YOU DONT FUCKING DESERVE IT!

    He knew dog fighting was illegal, he just figured if he got caught, his celebrity status would protect him. Sorry, your luck has to run out sometime.\

    I think at the very least, he should have a min. 1 year suspension. Let him go to Canada or Arena, or even better….GET A REAL JOB! He had his dream job and fucked it up like an asshole!

    Where else (especially in this economy) can you fuck up that much and keep getting a do over….I’m just being realistic!


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

    and

    with fame and fortune come heavy responsibilities you must hold in the public eye … and if you cant do that , imo you dont deserve the fame or the fortune nor are you capable of continuing to try …

    "I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh

    If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK

    by NorthPhillyKid on May 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

    word!


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

    yeah, probably not

    but I wouldn’t like it at all! But I couldn’t imagine the Eagles EVER considering him.


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

    The Humane Society...

    …just sent out this e-mail (I’m on their mailing list)

    Dear wildcatlh — You may have seen the news that Michael Vick has been released from prison, and that The Humane Society of the United States is going to provide an opportunity for him to get involved in some of our anti-dogfighting outreach programs. Animal advocates might be skeptical, as I was, about whether a man who committed such horrible acts to dogs could do anything positive to help animals. But I want to give him the chance to be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. If he is serious — and we’ll soon find out — then Vick can help HSUS reach young men in urban communities and tell his story about dogfighting being a dead end. Our on-the-street programs teach at-risk kids that pit bulls are friends, not fighters. I wanted to share with you my blog which I’ve just posted today, which elaborates on my thinking.

    Sincerely,
    Wayne Pacelle
    President & CEO
    The Humane Society of the United States

    by wildcatlh on May 20, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions  

    Second chance at life is not the same as playing in the NFL again

    This argument is about whether or not he should be given a job in the NFL not about whether or not he should be in jail for life. Beyond the right or wrong in this case there are two issues. First, his public profile is insanely negative. It would be irresponsible to let him back just for that reason. Second, the transgressions of other NFL players is not relevant unless they occurred during Goodell’s tenure.

    Finally, whether or not Vick becomes rehabilitated from the experience is not relevant. How many companies have you worked for that will allow you to have your job reinstated after you have spent the past 2 years in prison? Why should the NFL be any different? This is an argument about what is best for the business of the NFL and it seems to have been turned into whether or not justice has already been served.

    by Dawk on May 20, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

    TRUE THAT!


    "I want to maintain my flexibility."
    -Andy Reid

    by BroadStBullies on May 20, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

    The way I see it..

    If a team will hire him then he deserves another chance.

    Now that said, I wouldn’t want him as an Eagle. I would root for the guy, I don’t like him, I think what he did was disgusting… but he did his time. I don’t have a problem with him earning a living if he finds a team that wants him.

    by JasonB on May 21, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions  

    I'd like everyone to regard this fact.

    Without going into a long discussion at the moment, all of this just brings up the social problem of the double standard. Just like the double standards amongst the sexes, sports stars are awarded special treatment from the beginning. I was talking about it with a friend last night and he made a good point. The reason why stars/athletes are the way they are is partially due to how they are brought up in life. Student athletes are put a step above the rest many times. They are coddled and get away with a lot of crap! If this is their upbringing, if they are never “taught a lesson” (in the sense that they get punished when they do something wrong and abide by the same rules/laws as normal students/people), then we have to expect them to act the way they do. Instead of ranting/rambling about this, I’ll let you guys ruminate this whole idea of a double standard.

    Vick did a terrible thing and there is no coming back from what he did. I just think that we as a society are what create a person like Vick (moreso his persona). If we expect to treat athletes the way we do, letting them off easy if they committ a mistake, having other’s do the required work for them (college athletes, for example, have papers written for them), and pretty much put them a step above the rest, than reinstating Vick into the NFL shouldn’t be surprising.

    by soman319 on May 21, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

    Vick...

    I’m one of those that although I’m not for dog fighting, I don’t think what he did was really worth the federal sentence he got…it was obviously compounded by him not being forthright once the controversy starting rolling, but I truly believe he was actually singled out for being a high profile athlete in this case.

    So, yes, I think he deserves a second chance.

    ---AstrosFan (Austin Lawyer and Sports Fan)

    by AstrosFan on May 21, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

    What alot of people continue to fail to realize is that he just didn’t go to prison for dog fighting… there was a whole list of charges that dealt with gambling, conspiracy, organized crime, and so forth… so please remember that when you say that “his sentence for dog fighting was excesive”. let’s not forget the rest of the story as well.

    "I tried to run him over but Eli had his big boy pads on and he kind of stopped me from getting in the end zone. The next time I’ll try to jump over his head.’’ - Asante Samuel

    by foos05 on May 22, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

    NO WAY

    IF I GOT ARRESTED AND WAS SENT TO PRISON ON A MULTIPULE YEAR SENTENCE, I KNOW MY BOSS WOULD NOT HIRE ME BACK.

    by STRAIGHTOYOURFACE on May 23, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

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