Who is the best compliment to Brian Westbrook? That's the real question.
by JCC on Apr 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
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PrintI wanted to cast my line out there and attempt to reel everyone back in for a second with regard to the RB selections. A few months ago, I was very high on LeSean McCoy. Pitt games were on TV pretty frequently, which provided opportunity to watch him play and gauge his talent. I think we'd all agree that he is very similar to B-west - very shifty, fluid hips, extremely quick, good instincts, makes guys miss, very good at catching the ball and running screens, etc.
Now, I'm all juiced up on the Knowshon koolaide after watching hours of game footage. His athleticism is unparalleled when compared to other RB prospects. He's a downright freak, ok? I'd probably spooge in my pants if Goodell calls his name when we pick. But, are my feelings deluded?
The real driving force behind this post is to perhaps second guess our judgment for wanting Knowshon or LeSean so eagerly. Isn't the game of football all about balance? Different types of players feed off of each other's styles and versatility. Defenses gameplan and scheme for different types of players. Would putting LeSean or Knowshon out there in between B-west's plays really make defenses adjust? I don't think so. I think that because LeSean and Knowshon are so similiar to B-west, defenses wouldn't change their plan of attack. We'd be exposed for our predictability.
However, wouldn't sending out Chris Wells, Rashad Jennings, or Shonne Green make defenses change their plan or scheme? You have quick and shifty Westy out there and then you throw a monkey wrench into the defense's plans by sending the big, bruising Beanie out there? All three guys are bigger, tough runners. I think the point I'm trying to convey has proven validity - take a look at how complimentary Derrick Ward and Brandon Jacobs were to each other last year. As a pair (I don't even want to consider Ahmad Bradshaw yet), they made each other more effective and both rushed for more than 1000 yards.
This isn't about Westbrook's replacement. He's got plenty of gas left. This is about who can help us win now. At least that's what I wish it were about.
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we need to draft two running backs anyway, so I don’t think getting another guy like Westbrook hurts. A defense needs to study a guys tendencies. If you have two guys very effective at running and catching the football, they are still going to play different. Westbrook and Moreno would have different cutback lanes and field vision. Also, just imagine the headaches with Westbrook lining up in the flat and Moreno behind center.
I am not saying adding a guy like Reshard Jennings wouldn’t be nice, I just think this team needs more playmakers. If we have 2 playmakers at RB, it could never be a bad thing.
why are we drafting 2 rbs again? not andy’s style to give up on booker after one year. especially when he made progress from early in the season to his appearances at the end of the season
how dare booker not learn our offense in one year !
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
Crabtree ! Crabtree ! Crabtree ! -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Apr 13, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
less than one *
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
Crabtree ! Crabtree ! Crabtree ! -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Apr 13, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t remember a season when we didn’t go into the preseason with at least 4 running backs. Right now we have 2 on the Roster, and 2 FBs: Eckel and Weaver. Thats why we need to draft 2 rbs.
by Clyde Simmons on Apr 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
technically 3 RBs Eldra Buckley, Lorenzo Booker, Brian Westbrook
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
exactly …. but we still signed him this off season … take a look
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Agree..
I think It is just more of a depth/playmaker issue then finding the back who best compliments westbrook.. I think we get the best back.. in Eagle’s opinion ..out there.. If Moreno is on the board at 21 he is ours.. If not I think they target McCoy or Jennings
DeSEAN JACKSON THE ONE
I don't know that it's about size
I think what you’re getting at is you want a big back, but I just don’t know that it’s about size. We care about getting a back that will rush for at least 4 yards (hopefully 4.5 or more) every carry. We don’t care about how big the guy is, just that he gets the yards. A lot of that comes from the offensive line, and how good the runner is at taking advantage of it.
I don’t care if he bulls a guy over or makes a guy miss, as long as the end result is he is still on his feet churning out yards. Actually, I would prefer he made the guy miss, because that guy is still expending energy and hitting the ground hard while our guy is just dandy and uninjured.
+1
A younger version of Buckhalter with a higher ceiling is the compliment we should be looking for. I think that guy is Moreno.
While a big back may make the most sense in theory, fact is Andy would never utilize him enough to warrant the pick.
by andyreidswaistline on Apr 13, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with your point about needing a complement for Westbrook in the short term, but we also need that guy that can stand on his own once Westbrook is phased out of the game.
Either way, I think the Eagles pick of an RB will not depend as much on who they like, but who is still available when it’s their turn to pick. As the ILLadelph touched on, if Moreno is available when it’s our turn then I think he will be wearing green next season. So what I mean by that is that they don’t have a predetermined pick where they will go for a certain RB they like, but instead they have a bunch of scenarios that pan out differently based on which RBs are available and when they are available.
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theismann
I agree with this
I completely agree with your point about needing a complement for Westbrook in the short term, but we also need that guy that can stand on his own once Westbrook is phased out of the game.
Also someone who could, in a half-season or a full-season, carry the load if Westbrook were injured.
Well, if it’s a high pick, it would be nice to get a complement now, and a future load-carrier. If it’s a 4th-rounder, it’s cool if he just complements Westbrook.
Mostly good points on here though, as I find myself saying a lot now, not sure there’s only one right answer.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
brown
How could you not mention Donald Brown?….if we don’t get to pick Moreno, i think the Eagles def. select D.B…..He’s also a lil bigger then moreno w/ much of the same talent.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Apr 13, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
It's tough to fully gauge the answer here
Considering Westbrook is getting up there (turning 30 in September) I think we do need a replacement more than compliment, although if the back is going to be similar to Westbrook or not remains to be seen. If we get a guy who’s a little bigger but can still play the west coast style, like Deuce was for us, than we get a compliment AND a replacement. They also still view Booker as a viable option and he’s similar to Westy so the birds may not want 3 RB’s with the same skill set on the depth chart.
"Now Sav Rocca played for the Magpies in Australia. I don't know if it's a bird or a pie or what it is." Ike Reese
I agree
That we need to start thinking about westbrook’s replacement…especially if our Offense is so tragically difficult to learn (AKA Tony Hunt, Lorenzo Booker)…
Why isn’t anyone talking about Weaver as the change of pace back?
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Just want to throw the point out there that even though andy has used westbrook out of the backfield a lot, it doesnt mean his replacement has to be a player exactly like westbrook. A change in pace and different running style could change the team for the better. Not mentioning names, just wanted to put that point out there. We all have to be more open minded.
Interesting
You just stated the majority opinion round most parts, that the Eagles need a big back who will likely be slower but deal out bigger hits than Westbrook. I don’t know that that’s the way to go, and I think the reason a lot of us on BGN like Moreno more than Wells is because we’ve been disillusioned of the myth that big + small = good, realizing that really production + production = good
by Alon on Apr 13, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Strong point here
I think the reason a lot of us on BGN like Moreno more than Wells is because we’ve been disillusioned of the myth that big + small = good, realizing that really production + production = good
rec’d!
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
disillusioned?
Moreno is coveted more because of his similiarities to westy, and that he looks a lot more suited for our west coast offense. He can catch the ball and people like to point out wells’ injuries. Also the reason that D. Brown is the second back most people want, instead of hoping for wells after moreno. The wells train road out of here a while ago, and he hasn’t been invited for a workout. So i think we’re actually on the same page as the FO for once.
"Eagles fans are a passionate group who love their team," said McNabb, "if not the actual players. It's not like winning a Super Bowl before the first month of the season is the hardest thing they've ever asked of me. That'd be all those times they asked me to go kill myself."
by greenbean#twoOH on Apr 13, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you're disagreeing with anything i said
but just to make sure, are you disagreeing with anything I said?
I think the term “compliment back” is used to often without reason. I also hate “change of pace back” … all you are doing is putting fresh legs in. The defense get’s tired and the RBs don’t advantage RBs.
Bucky and Westbrook were similar RBs even though Buckhalter was bigger they ran similar and were effective.
DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are similar runners and they both did well because they were always fresh.
The argument “a defense knows what to game plan for when your RBs are the same” or “you need a different back to throw the defense off” …. you’re telling me defenses don’t know whats going to happen when Jacobs is in versus Ward? It’s obviously impossible to game plan for different sets and packages, how will we ever do it (/sarcasm).
We need a RB that is effective and can run the ball I don’t care if he is a big bruiser or a scat back if that bastard can run I want him on my football team.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Apr 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Well put Whodie. I had to rec you on that.
Thats the point I was trying to get across earlier in this post. You have to keep an open mind. Just because the halfback isnt westbrooks protege, doesnt mean he wont dominate.
I think that players can in fact compliment each other. There is definitely a legitimate argument that two players with different running styles, in this case, can be more effective when used appropriately in concert.
See:
Jacobs / Ward
White / Johnson
McAllister / Bush
Dunn / Norwood
T. Jones / L. Washington
J. Jones / Barber
Portis / Betts
F. Taylor / MJD
My point was that if we have two guys with the same or similar styles, defenses don’t really have to adjust no matter which guy is on the field. They’ll stick to the same package, especially if its working well, and the potential is there that the defense could start picking up momentum. Offensively, you have to keep the defense guessing. Having two play-making RBs with different games only makes it harder on the defense. Depending upon the RB, certain guys on defense may come out or into the game which effects the fluidity of not only their performance individually but also the performance of the defense as a whole. Maybe I’m not making any sense….I don’t know…..
You're not seeing "compliements"
You’re seeing the fact that there are SO many good RBs out there that having two of them on a roster is very common. Buckhalter was having a great year, he just never got many opportunities.
To be honest. The reason why Jacobs and Ward were so good last year is because the Giants had the BEST run blocking line. Any RB tandem would’ve done very well. Remember when the Chiefs had 2 hall of famers and 2 pro bowlers on their line? Teams would know they were going to run and they did it anyhow. They had the best offense in the NFL and their WRs were Eddie Kennison and Johnie Morton lol… Could you imagine if we had those two WRs here in Philly?
Guys, we didnt even invite Moreno for a private workout….Nor beanie… That should tell you guys something!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
To be honest
I don’t follow college football that much, so I’m not sure who we are going to get. What I do THINK is that we will look to get a RB in the 2nd or 3rd— NOT the first.
Think about this.
What’s more scarce? A pro bowl LT who can anchor the line for 10 years?
or
A pro bowl RB who will have 6-7 great years?
With 2 first round draft picks we could get a really solid solid Tackle. RBs are a dime a dozen and with a good line an average RB can produce REALLY well… So thats why I think we’re going Line in round 1.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Guys, we didnt even invite Moreno for a private workout….Nor beanie… That should tell you guys something!
I seem to remember them working out a bunch of QBs and not McNabb in 99 (I could be wrong) … sometimes you don’t have to workout players because you already know what you need to know.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
NOT inviting a guy could mean a lot of things ...
1) Not wanting to tip anyone off that that’s who you really want
2) Your scouts have seen everything they needed to see at games, on film and at the combine, and have no unanswered questions
3) They don’t expect to be in position to pick him
or
4) — the point you were making, I think — that they have their eyes on someone else.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
some of those combos aren’t different runners though. Jacobs/Ward are both power runners , same with Jones/Barber, Portis/Betts and Taylor/MJD. Those are all guys who are contact runners.
Jones/Washington, Dunn/Norwood, McAllister/Bush and White/Johnson are power runner/speed runner but I would argue the only reason they are successful is because they keep each other fresh and not because they run different.
The thing is a defense has to game plan against the run not the runner. You can’t coach speed so either the linebackers are going to take good lines and get the speed runner or plug holes and get the power guy. You can game plan a little for different styles but in reality it is more does the defense wear down before the back, if you have 2 backs you help your odds no matter the style.
Westbrook was/is successful because he could outlast the defense.
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
Both arguments are valid ...
… and Whodie, on the flip, if you argue that multiple RBs wear down a defense, would you also argue that a defense which rotates, say, its defensive linemen, holds up better against a multiple-RB team.
Specifically thinking Eagles D-Giants O here :)
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Your point is a popular one
But that’s a causation/correlation problem there. Those runners all produce because they’re f*cking good runners, running behind elite offensive lines, not really because one is big and the other is small. As Whodie pointed out, some teams have 2 big guys, some have 2 small ones.
But the one common link is that all of the runners you mentioned are incredible with or without the complimentary — remember Michael Turner/LaDainian Tomlinson in SD? Everyone thought that Turner was good because he was a great compliment to Tomlinson, and then Turner got unleashed as a feature back without a real compliment in ATL and thrived even more there.
The two correlations, then? Both SD & ATL had great blocking, and both Tomlinson & Turner are great runningbacks.
Chris Wells
I think him or Knowshown would Compliment Westbrooks Running style the best.. Wells might be the best back for you but since Knowshown is a excellent receiving back i think he would be the best bet in your offense.
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
How can you be a fan of the most dramatic, overrated joke of a team, full of hotheads and egotists, who can’t actually support the hype that accompanies the team because of their year after year failures at winning even one playoff game since 1998? Do you realize that your head coach, Jason Garrett (he’s the head coach – believe it), actually played QB on your team that year? That’s how long its been since your team won a playoff game. Here, let me put forth a fine little analogy here: That would be like saying the last time the Eagles won a playoff game, Andy Reid’s fat ass was the left tackle. Pretty funny, huh? Yeah, your team is a fuckin joke. But, I know that you can’t help it – heck the ’boys are your team and of course, you follow so closely because of your love of the game and the excitement that it brings.
This post elicits memories from one of my favorite movies, Good Will Hunting.
I’m Sean and you’re Will…
Sean: It’s not your fault.
Will: [Softly, still staring off] I know…
Sean: No you don’t. It’s not your fault.
Will: [Serious] I know.
Sean: No. Listen to me son. It’s not your fault.
Will: I know that.
Sean: It’s not your fault.
[Will is silent, eyes closed]
Sean: It’s not your fault.
Will: [Will’s eyes open, misty already] Don’t fuck with me Sean. Not you.
Sean: It’s not your fault.
Sorry, man – you might be friends with other BGN’ers, but your signature pissed me off….. Which is exactly what you wanted, I’m sure. Coming on our blog and posting some comment with that stupid little signature. You’ll probably fire back with some silly little picture of an empty Eagles trophy case or tell me how many Superbowls your team has won. OOOrrrrr, there will be no response since this post is probably too old already. But, you know what? I don’t care because those Cowboys teams that won the championship were a different set of guys than the players you have now. They had heart.
Wow, I just went off on you. You’re probably a nice kid.
by JCC on Apr 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heart
Ya thats one thing that they did have and they had a good HC in the early 90’s but you cant tell me about heart. When you guys made it to the superbowl only T.O and Brian Dawkins looked like they wanted it. Your QB is just as much of a pussy as Romo and to this day i havent seen Romo throw up when we need him most. he might not show up in december but neither have many great QB’s Look at Peyton, Farve, Elway it took them all a couple years to start playing in the true forms. Maybe im talking out my ass but i come into a post and give a outside opinion totally nice dont throw any digs and you go off on me like some asshole. Then tell me my team dont have heart if the eagles had heart they would have a superbowl allready. 1 in 5 in championship games that doesnt seem like they want it to bad with your guys talent the last decade at least 2 superbowl but yet none? So dont tell a Cowboys fan about heart really……….
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
HAHAH JCC … Rec’d.. i wasnt born a eagles fan? Would’nt it be an eagles fan? How long did it take you to make that retarded signature up regaberto? I thank god every day my quarterbacks not a f’king pussy. Its not so bad, maybe you will win a playoff game this season.
I have a feeling we will draft a LT with 21 and the best overall player on the board to trade at 28. We do have TONS of picks
WE DONT NEED A COMPLIMENT
Like a lot of other people said … we dont need a compliment. I dont even think Westbrook has played a full season, he has been pretty banged up every year. Running backs have such a short shelf life and can just fall off at any given time. Hopefully westbrook has plenty of time left but if he doesnt and we get a “compliment” then we are screwed. I hope we draft the best available running back and if he does compliment westbrook, than so be it…..
" If you do that its really unfair, that's my teammate (sniff), that's my quarterback, if you guys do that its not fair, we lost as a team (sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff)." - Terrell Owens
and plus compliments usually only play a few seasons with that team until they go somewhere else to get a big contract.
" If you do that its really unfair, that's my teammate (sniff), that's my quarterback, if you guys do that its not fair, we lost as a team (sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff)." - Terrell Owens
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