Eagles Should Trade Down
I posted this in another thread about what the Eagles should do with their draft thread, but I figured it was long enough to warrant a fan post, and I wanted to see what people thought about the idea of trading down. I know we're all clamoring to select 2 first rounders to make up for our lack of any first rounders these past couple years, but where I'm sitting I dread the thought of trading up and like the idea of trading down.
Why?
Let’s assume that the pundits are basically correct in their long-winded commentary hypothesizing that there is a shit-ton of depth in this draft, and not a whiffle-nut’s worth of top-tier talent. The real value-for-pick in the draft comes at pick 22 or so. That’s right where our first pick is, for all intents and purposes. I’m delighted with that.
What that is also saying is that there isn’t a massive drop-off in talent from the 1st to the 2nd. So let’s say that a team with a pretty good pick this year, say the Bills or something, decides they want leverage on Peters. This is just a random hypothetical example, that I really didn’t think totally through, but there are real scenarios like that that could play out that are more realistic. Anyway, I’ve chosen the Bills. They want insurance at tackle, since beyond Peters they got some kids who still have gangrene from gross-ass college showers. These kids suck. They aren’t good. They’re not a replacement for Peters, who, like him or not, is a bona-fide left tackle. So the Bills (who, on a related note, also suck) decide they want a guy like Beatty in the second half of the first round.
Trade:
Bills send 1st round (2010) + 2nd round (2009) + 3rd round (2010)
Eagles send 1st round (28 overall, 2009) + 3rd round (2009) + 4th round (2010) + 5th round (2009). Is that a fair trade? I don’t know. Maybe. Probably not. I didn’t compare the value charts at all.
Would the Bills do it? Maybe. Probably not. They are giving up what will probably be a high draft pick, given their divisional opponents and relative suckitude. Plus Lynch is gone their first 3 games, so they’re gunning for 1-2 headed into week 4.
Would the Eagles do it? Maybe. Probably not. They give up a lotta picks this year for a lottery next year. I will say that if the Eagles DID do this trade, I’d be happy.
The points are all moot, however, because it’s just a scenario. The real points are as follows:
We would a similarly talented player in the top half of the 2nd round as we would in the bottom half of the 1st. There is so much fluidity of talent there that a pick in the first half of the 2nd round might as well be a bottom half of the 1st round. It’s all about getting the player you want there. If the Eagles like a guy that will be available for the 37th pick, there’s no sense in picking him at 28 when you could get him at 35 or 36 or 37 and get a great pick for next year as well. Even moreso if they like 2 guys that will be there, since they’re going to get one.
Secondly, I don’t want us to trade that first for Peters, or Johnson, or Edwards. Maybe I’d be okay with Boldin, but I really do not think WR is our biggest need. That would be a fun trade, and I almost said Boldin, but whatever.
Thirdly, I do not think we have the best player possible at every position. The draft is partially a crapshoot, so drafting 12 guys means you have 12 chances at finding a real gem. Let’s overdraft! We have a need at RB? Sweet, draft 3 of them, at least 1 will probably turn out. Need a tackle? We only spent 3 picks on RB, why not spend 3 more on tackles! A TE you say? Bam, 3 more. And that still leaves 3 picks to fuddle around with DB and DE and LB, if you so desire. Obviously we don’t need to draft 3 of everything, but we do tend to overdraft to fulfill needs, and bringing 12 college studs to camp is not a bad idea if it means we end up with great position battles, players striving to get better, and maybe the cutting of some guys that really aren’t all that, and we just think they are because we haven’t seen what someone else can do.
Phew.
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8 comments
Comments
Normally I'd agree with you ...
… but the product of all that trading back is to get “more value” later on, don’t you at some point have to use those picks, or you never realize all that value you traded for?
I guess technically you could spin it forward for better 2010 picks.
But the real reason I want the Eagles to use any combination of their 12 picks to get several players who can help soon is because the Eagles are just a couple holes from having a Super Bowl contender this year and next. Why not add some players who can contribute and take two solid shots at it?
I don’t know if there’s a single right answer. The Eagles will probably not draft what’s popular, but what they feel will be the best haul for the team over the long haul. It might not look sexy on the surface … but that’s how we end up with Stewart Bradleys and Brent Celeks and Trent Coles and Todd Herremanses and what have you.
Personally, I’d love a draft for need draft since I think RB and TE are far and away their biggest needs, but I understand that’s not how the birds tend to do things, and that not everybody agrees.
I think the one thing all Eagles fans can agree on is that they’ll do something that all Eagles fans won’t be satisifed with.
This year, they can go up or down or stay put and still do well … I’m sure they don’t even know what they’ll do, and I guess that’s half the fun.
But in the end, only the haul really matters. I’m not sure I really care how they arrive at it.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Apr 12, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love this argument. I see what you’re saying about overdrafting…very provokative. You’re saying the more times I draw from the deck, the higher my chances of drawing an ace or two. And from that view, I would agree with what you say. (I am a big believer in the law of averages)
The flip side of that coin is that I’m not going to spend 12 picks knowing full well that 3 or 4 (or whatever) of them won’t make my 53 man roster. I’m going into the draft with the mindset that every name I call is going to make my team better ( not necessary this season, but at some point).
So lets say I do what you want and draft 3 running backs (hypothetically), knowing full well that I don’t have room for all three. Lets even say that one of them turns into a very good player. Any way you look at it, I made that move knowing full well that I was wasting one or two picks to get that result. If I’m the GM, I’m not playing to waste picks, I’m playing to maximize their value.
by captainmike011 on Apr 12, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So in other words ...
… if you have 12 picks but you don’t want 12 players, you’d package some picks to get better players (i.e. more value) from the picks you already have?
I can dig that.
If they got 8 guys they really liked as opposed to 6 they really liked and 6 they hope will pan out or bring competition to camp and maybe surprise, isn’t that “maximizing value?”
Again, not sure there’s a single correct answer.
We focus on the first round because that’s where the name picks are, but let’s not forget that all those fifth-rounders could be useful for moving up a handful of picks in the third to get guys we really want, etc.
It’s a fair bet the Birds will want to hang on to as many options as possible and play their hand best they can throughout the two days.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Apr 12, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding your RB scenario
I agree with you in principle that it’s better to have fewer players you like more than just bringing in players for the sake of bringing in players. I think my argument more rests on the idea that the draft is a crapshoot, and being that you don’t know which RB will turn out, but you have high confidence that 1 out of 3 would turn out, I feel in that specific scenario it would be wise to take the three, so that you are guaranteed to have filled a need.
I think overall you summed me up well — I love the idea of drawing a buncha cards from the deck, so that you’re more likely to find a few more diamonds than the guy with less picks (statistically speaking).
The trick is that sometimes that’ll backfire, and you’ll have wasted an entire draft and gotten no gems. Obviously a major danger, and probably the reason that the Eagles will not just trade down and mass up ~15-20 picks (hah! could you imagine 20 draft picks???). We’ll package a couple here and there to get the “guy we really like” instead of “body that might turn out,” and that’s a good thing. But in principle, I never mind trading down. I’d rather have 2 players than 1, given that the average career span is 3 years and none of those guys drafted are really all that likely to pan out.
by Alon on Apr 13, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I SAY STAY WHERE WE ARE
UNLESS THERE IS A POSSIBLITY OF GETTING A. BOLDIN FROM ARIZONA. BUT KNOWING THE EAGLES IM SURE THEY WILL BE MOVING AROUND COME DRAFT DAY. I’D LIKE TO SEE BEANIE WELLS AT 21. MACLIN AT 28. BUT THATS JUST ME. IM SURE JIM JOHNSON WILL BE IN THE MIX AND TRY AND GET AYERS ON THE EDGE OR IF Rey Maualuga IS STILL THERE WATCH JIM GET THE 28TH PICK.
by STRAIGHTOYOURFACE on Apr 13, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WHY IS EVERYTHING IN CAPS??
STOP YELLING! YOU DON’T NEED TO HAVE YOUR CAPS LOCK ON IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR POINT MORE VAILD.. IT JUST SHOWS YOUR MENTALITLY AND NEED FOR ATTENTION..
By the way, RB and WR in the first? Why? the WR class isn’t that great. Birds draft out of value, not need (enot saying WR is a need at this time). You are right about JJ. Expect a Defensive player in the first assuming the birds stay where they are at. I’m thinking CB or LB.
"I'd like to thank my hands for being so great."
-FredEx
by micah15 on Apr 13, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don’t just trade down for the sake of trading down. If you like a player, you take him. If you’re in a spot in which there isn’t a player you’re particularly thrilled with at that spot, then sure, maybe you look to move down and grab an extra pick or 2.
But I’ll say this… I’d do that Carolina trade (in which Carolina traded up to get Jeff Otah for a 2 and a 4 in 2008, and a 1 in 2009) every single time. That was an absolute steal of a trade. If a team makes you an offer like that, I don’t care how much you like a player, you pull the trigger on that trade.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Apr 13, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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