The Great Debate 2009
by BadCo'09 on Dec 3, 2009 7:56 PM EST
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PrintEver since I've joined BGN there have been people who disagree on topics, and quite honestly, that's what this forum is for. Some arguments have never been settled or properly given enough attention, so that is what this post is about.
If you got a gripe with another member, call em out here. Want to debate Joe_D on McNabb v Kolb, EvilBanner on Reid v 13 copies of TimeCop on VHS, NPK on who QB Caption winners should be, or me on anything. Let's do this. Consider this BGN's "Airing of Grievances" for Festivus.
BTW, I intentionally left JIBTA out of my examples because I believe he cannot have a structured argument/debate with anyone. Call him out if you want, but I think we all know where any kind of debate with him is going.
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good stuff...
open forum:
two questions.
More important Celek or Avant? Why?
Who deserves a premature extension more Sheldon or Desean?
My answers:
Torn on the first one because they are both extremely essential but I’d go with Avant. Jason Avant has really been productive the last two years, not necessarily in TDs or yardage but his leadership, ability in the clutch and Donovan’s trust in him. Avant also only has one year left so I mean it was more essential for him to get signed over Celek. Avant has almost 300 yds in the last 3 games, two of which we won.
Desean, Desean, Desean. Special Teams, Reverses, and Long Ball. Enough said.
I agree that both players are huge contributors to this team, but I would go with Celek over Avant just because the lack of depth we have at the TE position. Celek is our top receiver this season, and I’m not sure we could put someone else in his spot and get the same production. Love Avant, but we have a few other receivers that might be able to step in and shoulder the burden should he go down. I don’t think I can say the same about Celek right now.
As for Sheldon or DeSean, my answer is DeSean for the reasons you mentioned above.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Dec 3, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Why do we have to choose between Celek and Avant? I like both of them equally. Its nice to have a stellar performer at TE finally but Avant is different than our other receivers, I think. Avant is reliable in the middle, he is great at running routes and excels at those unbelievably hard-to-make catches. He may not be as fast as Jackson but he is great at what he does and is a clutch WR. But if I HAD to make a choice, it would have to go with Depth at the TE position. Utilizing our TE has work out well for us this season and I hope it continues.
- For the record. If we extended Avants contract, I would be more likely to get an Avant jersey than a Celek Jersey, but I would end up probably getting both.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
I Love Avant...........
He is the most Important @ moving the chains……and really they are both HUGE Pieces to our theam……..that being said Id have to go with Celek………Simply because if he gets hurt our primary TE is Smith……ya alex smith………He doesn’t scare Anyone…..@ least in the WR corps we could turn to Reggie………Not a Stud but serviceable and has experience and has decent Chemistry with Mcnabb and should be able to beat any of the leagues 3rd Corners.
as i read this my nose began to bleed
@ least in the WR corps we could turn to Reggie
and to think, everyone on here was throwing him into any trade ideas, and now he is getting playing time because of injuries and trades
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
How many catches does he have?
Yep…
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
3 for 40 yrds with a long of 19.
But he doesn’t get much playing time. I’m not a fan of Brown “like that” but he hasn’t done anything for me to think he isn’t a reliable back up. And with our talented WR corps.. I stress back up. He hasn’t really played enough to evaluate him. I feel bad for all the grief he gets. At first I was wanting to trade him before getting rid of Baskett but I come to find out that he does what he can with the time he gets. I still prefer Jackson, Maclin, Avant, Curtis over Brown but I’m not disappointed he’s on our team. He is serviceable and reliable if we need him with injuries.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
wtf lmao
dont hate me asshole lol … whodie is the reason you lost lol
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
anyone get the license plate of that bus that just hit me?
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
7IN-DEAK
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 4, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
CHINESE WATER TORTURE!
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
joe buck
water torture isnt anythin to mess with lol, my friends and i tried it out when we were kids, one of my friends still has a huge callus on his forehead from it, and it was over 12 years ago
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
…
you were fucked up yougins’. All we did was have boxing matches and played with fire like normal kids.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
i cant deny that, we got bored quick
i remember shooting a bird shot round with a bb gun, trying to hit the primer with the same group of friends lol
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
played with fire like normal kids lol
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 4, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
waterboarding might
but id think going crazy listening to joe buck would get more media attention, hell maybe even take tiger woods off every news network for 3 mins
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
speaking of tiger
how douchey waas it that one of media people asked Don what he thought about the situation with Tiger….what the fuck does he care?
they just want sound bites because even the media knows this is gettin old fast
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
reminds me of a chappelle moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo-ddYhXAZc
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
When the black race drafted Tiger Woods in the “Race Draft,” it’s kind of funny that he immediately began acting like a black athlete.
I'm callin out EvilBanner
how can you say banner and reid are that friggen horrible with the core of young talent they massed up through the years and the consistent competitive team they put out over the years?
calling banner/lurie cheap after the contracts they put out over the past few offseasons?
lets hear it and dont hold back
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
Things they did right:
Sheldon Brown, Lito Sheppard (for a couple years, at least), Asante Samuel, Quintin Mikell, John Runyan, Todd Herremans, Jeremiah Trotter (except for this last time), Stewart Bradley, Brodrick Bunkley, Mike Patterson, Brian Westbrook, Leonard Weaver, Desean Jackson, Lesean McCoy, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek… oh and Donovan McNabb
That’s a pretty nice list.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
i dont think he will argue players
more of gameday coaching and his weight
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
Okay...here goes...
1. Young talent “through the years?” Not so fast, my good man. I will grant you that this year, there is an abundance of “young talent.” However, if one looks at the totality of banner’s “achievement,” one sees GLARING holes in the offense (wide receiver during the Ricky Manning jr. days, linebackers currently, etc.).
2. Is there anything more offensive in the pantheon of sports talk than the phrase “consistently competitive.” That’s like a girl who will go to second base (with an occasional headfirst slide into third a-la Charlie Hustle) in the backseat at the drive in but will never “go all the way.” I am tired of being blue-balled by Lurie and his bunch.
3. I am sticking with the “cheap” business. I look at it like this, being a good GM doesn’t just have to do with throwing money around. It has to do with putting big money where it will reap big dividends. Was Jason Peters a “need” more than B-Dawk? You may argue yes, I staunchly stick by my resounding “no.” If it were just about throwing money around, Washington would have the best ownership in the NFL and Barack Obama would be the best president in US history. Both of things aren’t even close to true. Lurie and Banner have yet to learn the precious talent of spending money wisely. When they do, we’ll have a shot.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
point one and two are fair, but point three is pretty weak. Everyone wanted Dawkins back, but if we didn’t trade for Peters, our starting LT would be none other than King Dunlap. Instead, we have an excellent LT. Runyan wasn’t able to crack an NFL roster until a week or two ago, so it’s unrealistic to say he would have been our starter from week one. With 10 weeks of King Dunlap starting at LT, I am willing to bet McNabb and Kolb would both be on IR already. Do you remember the Oakland game? Imagine that for an entire year…that would be our year sans Peters.
I'm callin out Joe_D
McNabb is this teams QB and will be so for maybe another 2-3 more years. fuck kolb :P
"Why do you step onto the field...? I don't believe in pressure. I don't believe in what may be said on the outside. Why do I step out onto the field? To Prove That I Am The Best!"
-Donovan McNabb
Where were you when I was kickin’ his ass on the Mcnabb debate? lol
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
i missed this!
gimme me a link. this is worth paying money to see
"Why do you step onto the field...? I don't believe in pressure. I don't believe in what may be said on the outside. Why do I step out onto the field? To Prove That I Am The Best!"
-Donovan McNabb
This was on Donovan’s birthday last week.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009/11/25/1173869/wish-a-happy-birthday-to-donovan
This was after like 4-5 games in. Take note how he acts like he is a 40 yr old know-it-all. Dude is only 24. I am 20, Eaglesgrl is 25.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009/10/27/1102782/evaluation-of-mcnabbs-recent
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
That convo got me riled up! I dont think there are any hard feelings between me and Joe D anymore but my favorite thing about that conversation was…
hunny please
as if he were 10 years older than me.
Its unfortunately Joe D has so much hate in his heart for McNabb. He is our QB so it is a wasted emotion.
Got nothing but love for ya Jody!
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
AAHH BUT I AM 33
f@#K DEM COWBOYZ.....F#%K EM!
by northern eagle on Dec 4, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
This was my favorite comment towards the end of the second linked post.
no i agree. JIBTA is actually fun to talk to on here. I do agree with him on occasion.
Jody on the other hand…i dont agree with too often. Typical negadelphian attitude.
by GreenInBaltimore on Oct 27, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jody is the biggest Mcnabb hater on BGN. Even when #5 does well, he denounces it.
Read YPB’s entire thread and look how pathetic and ignorant Jody sounds.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
Read YPB’s entire thread and look how pathetic and ignorant Jody sounds.
Can you feel…the love…tonight…
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Hey Imp, that reminds me.
I forgot to give you those Bunkley vs Patterson stats the other day. Here you go. Bunkley is ranked 11th best tackle in the league, Patterson at a hugely underrated 45th.
Bunkley is definitely the better of the two.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
duhhhhhhhhh
hes 85 in madden lol and Patterson is 70 something lol cmon man dont you know madden stats are 100% accurate !
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 4, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
This is not only seconded, but carried to everyone who doubted.
Haven’t you watched the Eagles prior to this year? At all?
I mean, seriously. Shiiiiiiit.
alright anuj
you know i lovw ya 9anuj …Anuj…ANUJ!!!) but im takin JoeD’s back on this one….I am a whole hearted Kolb supporter, which is NOT to say im a McNabb hater. I just think kolb fits a WCO better. SO IM CALLIN YOU AND EVERY KOLB HATER OUT!!!! kolb Y2K10
f@#K DEM COWBOYZ.....F#%K EM!
by northern eagle on Dec 4, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Joe D got sodomized by Route36...
…just as Kolb gets sodomized by every quality defense you put out there to oppose him.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
BTW, I intentionally left JIBTA out of my examples because I believe he cannot have a structured argument/debate with anyone. Call him out if you want, but I think we all know where any kind of debate with him is going.
So true my friend.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
By the way... Witherspoon must have been the only player
to gain our respect in only a half of play lol…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
the half he had, let lone that was his first half as an eagle
was deserving of every word of praise for him
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
yerp
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 4, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Oh man, can I join? Throw me any question pertaining to the Eagles.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
If you could have one guy back this year wud it be JJ or dawk?
by footballfreak20 on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
wow good great question....
i need time to think about this one. jj was amazing, could of should of been a head coach somewhere and a future hall of famer. his defense was one of the bests over a whole decade….sincerly one of my favorites.
and dawk….mine, and your favorite player ever, weapon x, a future hall of famer, and the voice and center peice of that eagles D. i use to go on you tube and just watch any videos i could of dawk, like the one of him laying out crumpler, or the one where he stands in the end zone before the game and talks to the ball, or his pregame speeches.
this question is tough, and i feel like im almost insulting the other if i dont pick him. but if i could take back one player this year, itd be dawk.
i beliebe S. Mcdermott has done very well and jj has groomed him to be this teams future DC. i would want dawk back to groom our young safties some more, mainly macho, but also the Q’s. (as in demps and mikell) i think jj left and taught S. M. all that he could. id take dawk.
"Never give in, never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
What a ridiculous question...
Jim Johnson passed away! Everyone other than the fool above me would choose to bring JJ back over any living person.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
im sry i meant no disrespect… i should of phrased it as “who do you miss more”
by footballfreak20 on Dec 4, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
That's better. No worries...
I would say Dawkins since Mcdermott is doing a good job so far. I stated this before, Dawk is playing better than all 3 of our free safeties combined.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
by Route36 on Dec 4, 2009 3:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to have to agree with R-36.
This question is a little outlandish. However, I’ll humor you and talk about Dawkins.
I hate the “mentor” argument sometimes because it is applicability is relative. That is, it is dependent on both parties actually being active in the learning process and the “material” that is to be learned. At the safety position, there are tricks of the trade, but like every other position on the field, being taught and knowing something doesn’t necessarily mean that it will translate in action. Some things have to be taught through real game experience as opposed to someone telling you. On the flip side, Dawkins’ mentoring could and probably would go a long way in helping the young players be genuine people off the field.
I would take JJ back, simply because it’d mean he’d be alive. God rest his soul.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I have a beef with you, Bad Co.
In the yahoo league, I have the most cumulative points (and maybe the best team) in the league by a wide margin, and yet if the season were to end today, you’d win our division with a better record, and I wouldn’t be in the playoffs. And now I see you got 14 points out of your freaking kicker last night. Bastard.
I'd also like to air my grievances against that handicapped Giants fan again...
I still don’t fully buy that whole story about Eagles fans bullying a guy in a wheelchair.
oh yeah...
REC’D
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
remis is a bitch
you knew this was coming whodie …;)
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
BGNFL?
i’ll take this as my chance to site my meteoric rise to top. i’d like to thank my friends, family, the auto-draft, and everyone who believed in me. so let me go ahead and jinx my chances of winning it all.
-no word from the real,
snowhill82
"it's like i tell my ex-wife, i never drive faster than i can see, and besides it's all in the reflexes." -Jack Burton, Big trouble in little China
what the hell?
almost 100 comments and no one responded to a serious call-out
well i guess this was more of an airing of grievances than i expected lol
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
McNabb vs Kolb
We can continue this debate next year since McNabb’s old, inconsistent, diva ass will be on the trading black and gone. No longer will we have to see his fat face smile as he throws one in the dirt or watch him puke in a championship game.
I admit, he’s been playing pretty decent the past couple games but as JasonB stated at 33 most QBs are at the pinnacle of their passing game and he hasn’t been there since 2004.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
boo
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 5, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
I am trying as hard as I can to not comment about a certain typo on your post JoeD/fellow Kolb Supporter.
by eaglemaniac814 on Dec 6, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
you said "black"
instead of “block”…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
Or Kolb...
…as the moronic hillbilly pick-6’s us to another defeat.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
You're writing him off after only TWO whole starts?
And thats why we all think you’re a dumb ass
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I’m not writing him off, but I’m not calling him to start for us after “two whole starts” when we have McNabb. I dont think anyone will disagree with you that Kolb has promise and could quite possibly be the future of this team, but if we have a healthy McNabb we have a better chance at winning.. until he just can’t win anymore – and as much as you hate it… he is winning.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
IMO Cwel87 has it rite again.........
This arguement is baseless………
motherfuckers will be all on my dick next year
when Kolb is running this WCO better than McNabb. I’m sre there will be excuses to be had, but it sure is going to be a proud day when I say I told you so
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
kinda like my day when i told all of you desean was the best receiver in the draft class lol
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Dec 8, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I wasnt on here when you said that lol
But I said it over on philadelphiaeagles.com…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
Actually I take that shit back
Motherfuckers will be on my dick when McNabb chokes against a defense that isn’t the NY Giants, Chicago Bears or the Atlanta Falcons.
He’s done what he’s needed against those teams but I want to see some wins against some quality teams.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Where did I mention the Redskins?
The largest factor in these debates is most of you neanderthals can’t read correctly or fabricate my arguments. Yes he played well against the Skins, but it’s not like their offense is even close to competent (even though they looked like it). They were also without Haynesworth and Hall that day which we exploited most of the day. Again, I’ll admit he played well enough to win that game.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
You intentionally did not mention the Redskins because it weakens your 'argument'
I’m just reminding you that focusing on bad and ignoring good is stupid. You like to say stupid things regularly in regards to this.
The point is you don’t have an argument. There isn’t even a foundation with which to work; it’s entirely baseless.
If you hate McNabb as a person, just say so. Don’t try to make this ‘all about the team’. Bull. Shit.
And don’t try to coyly plant a ‘next year’ reference to Kolb as if he’ll be starting here next year. Intelligent football minds are at the head of our organization, whether you like it or not. And intelligent football minds don’t make stupendously moronic decisions like supplanting a perennial elite quarterback with a noodle-armed apprentice. Sorry.
And
no intelligent football mind would call Kolb a noodle armed apprentice — sorry. In fact, most intelligent football minds know that arm strength doesn’t have a whole lot to do with skill at the QB posistion. How many of the top QBs have AWESOME elite arm strength
McNabb’s inconsistencies throughout the years and the fact that he comes up so small in big games is a good enough argument. Fact is, I think he could be BETTER on another team, he’s just not a good WC QB.
And yes, he’ll be 34 next year, I think we’re going to go with our youth if we don’t do well in the playoffs
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
The flaws in your process are remarkable
A 33-year old quarterback is not old. How old is Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Brett Favre?
And with Favre, we have an amazing comparison. Throughout his career, Favre has averaged about 20 yards more a game, and has a higher completion percentage by 2 percent. McNabb has also thrown about an interception less every two games. All told, the quarterback rating of these two IS EXACTLY THE SAME over the course of their respective careers – 86.5.
The fact the Eagles offense consistently showcases deep passes means yes, you’ll probably want a quarterback with elite arm strength. McNabb has always had it. Kolb will never have it. Kolb absolutely has a weak passing arm, and he is absolutely an apprentice. Thinking otherwise, and believing both of those traits are beneficial to the Eagles franchise over what McNabb has to offer, is ludicrous.
The ‘McNabb comes up small in big games’ argument is the same retarded notion that Alex Rodriguez was a choke artist in the playoffs. Comparing those games to such a small sample size is so inanely stupid, I cannot begin to comprehend the idiocy. Oh, and how has McNabb fared as a playoff quarterback in his career, anyway? 10-7. And Favre’s? 12-10. Go ahead and throw that ‘SUPERBOWLSUPERBOWLSUPERBOWL’ argument in response. Or just stop the idiocy. Please.
You are exactly right.
Kolb is a noodle-arm apprentice (at best). His arm is flaccid and he can’t throw deep balls. We have Jackson and Maclin. Ergo, Kolb will never be our starting QB. Trade him for picks.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
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