Witten vs. Davis
by EaglesPhan on Dec 22, 2009 3:19 PM EST
58 comments
Based on the Eagles performance this past weekend against Vernon Davis I was wondering what you all thought about Davis' talent vs. Wittens talent. This comes up because I posted a remark over on the Cowgirls blog in response to a statement about how Philly can’t cover TE's. I simply said that they did a good job in shutting down Davis therefore I have a good feeling about their chances against Witten. Someone responded that you can’t compare Davis and Witten. On paper Davis has more TD's and around the same or maybe more yards on fewer receptions. A lot of the folks here are far more knowledgeable about the game than I am so I was interested in what you think.
Don’t mean to look past this weeks game with Denver. Should be another good test against a D, that when it shows up, is pretty tough.
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Witten is the better blocker
Vernon Davis is by far the better athlete.
In fact, Vernon Davis may be the most physically gifted player in the NFL.
by tanman5 on Dec 22, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Davis is the best blocking tight end in the game. That’s pretty widely agreed. I will give them a tie right now. Davis needs more polishing.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
by Route36 on Dec 22, 2009 5:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant "witten" is the best blocking TE!?!?
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 22, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, Davis. Dude is a mauler for his size. They haven’t used him in blocking as much as last year due to his breakout offensively but when he blocks, he is brutal.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
by Route36 on Dec 23, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to be honest, I wasn't even aware of that
after reading numerous posts, that seems to be a consistent opinion…good for him! and I learned something today.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 23, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re welcome ; )
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
by Route36 on Dec 23, 2009 9:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah umm...what
The discussion of best blocking tight ends is always Boss, Witten, or Gonzalez.
That said, Witten does not have 4.3 speed. Davis does
by tanman5 on Dec 22, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what
dude witten is a pass catching TE .. the best blockers are davis and klenisesser which i cant spell .. come on .. davis is the best blocking TE of the two .. its not even close .. witten is a better pass catcher .. he will get more catches ..davis is the physical freak who creates mis matches .. i would prefer davis if i was a GM because of his skill set and size. . but witten is really good
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 22, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Id take Witten because he's
quiet and good… Davis runs his mouth and is highly inconsistant.. Not to mention his effort at times is terrible(look at the Mikell INT)
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 22, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoa whoa
mikell jumped that route .. i dont even like him but that was a good play .. and davis running his mouth is a good thing .. plus davis is a mismatch for almost any lb or saftey and most corners .. hes a physical freak .. and hes a better blocker. . this bs about witten being a stud blocker isnt true .. hes above average blocker .. not elite
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 22, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no Mikel made a good play but Davis
was right there and was able to knock it down/tackle him and he just didnt.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 23, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no bs
that ball was underthrown .. if alex smith puts it over top its 6 for davis .. so dont blame the guy on a shitty thrown ball and a good pick
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also depends on who is throwing the ball to you..
Romo is so much better than Smith. Another thing is i think Witten is a lot more physical. He wouldnt think twice about running over any DB
by ssean2266 on Dec 23, 2009 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you are a pass catching te
Does not mean you are not a blocking TE
Witten and Boss are two of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL
by tanman5 on Dec 22, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
says who?
davis is a actualy a better blocker than witten
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 22, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack’s right on that one. His strength is unparalleled for that position.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
by IronHank on Dec 23, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has great strength
And Davis is a good blocker but Witten is better
Witten is 6’5" 263
Davis is 6’3" 253
Witten has more bulk and longer arms which make him a more effective blocker, though Davis is also quite good in this regard
by tanman5 on Dec 23, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, Witten is bigger, but Davis is definitely stronger. The shorter arms doesn’t help anything, but the man mauls defensive ends and linebackers alike. Size isn’t everything, and a ten pound difference isn’t as big of a deal when you’re dealing with men that big to begin with.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
by IronHank on Dec 23, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch this vid and then tell me who is stronger....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1FHm_EmcRw
He benched pressed 33 reps of 225 at the combine(O-line numbers). In, comparison Witten benched 28 reps.
Although strength is not everything in blocking, it’s more on the technique,but Davis mauls defensive ends and outside linebackers with his strength.
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
by Route36 on Dec 23, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what
dude davis is a better blocker .. just cuz ur bigger dont mean u can block .. strength is important but not the deciding facotr .. davis is just a good blocker .. witten is average .. hes not bad .. hes a lot better than celek at blocking .. but davis is elite for TEs blocking
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Manumaleuna is the best blocking TE in the league. (Seriously)
by Bye, Dawk :( on Dec 23, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can keep your WittenDavis. I’ll keep my Celek
If you dont like Big Red, then F#%@ You!
-Ricky Bobby
by GreenInBaltimore on Dec 22, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I was just curious with Davis having better numbers what makes people say Witten is still the better TE.
I will always be pulling for you #20.
April 20, 1996 - February 28, 2009
by EaglesPhan on Dec 22, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Witten is a proven vernon davis
Witten has a few inches/ pounds on davis and many contest that Witten is the best blocked TE in the game – though it should be noted that davis was hardly used for blocking this year. That being said this year Davis and Witten are very similar in YAC, and total yards. I would still prefer witten for two reasons. 1 Witten has put these numbers up for years while davis has done it for one year. 2 The NFC West simply does not seem to be nearly as competitive as the NFC east. While one could argue the defenses have been less than stellar this year….. throughout Wittens tenure he has put up some monster numbers against some REALLY good defenses.
by FakePhilly33 on Dec 22, 2009 4:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True but
Look at the trash that Davis has had around him…Witten’s had good players on his team to get him the ball/draw defenders away
by tanman5 on Dec 22, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crabtree and Frank Gore
I wouldn’t call San Fran’s O trash. Just their offensive line, they do have playmakers.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
by Willgfass on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they need a legit QB and better OT's before they fully scare me.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 22, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Young
With tons of upside
by sowhatifitisasportste on Dec 22, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt but alex smith isnt the man for the job there.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 23, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Witten is complete
he blocks, he catches, he runs…and he’s been doing it for years.
Davis is an incredible athlete…still raw around the edges, but with some good upside.
You have a reasonable point in noticing that we’ve gotten better with covering TEs. You can compare Davis and Witten as offensive weapons…you just can’t compare them in what they bring to the table in the blocking game…Witten is far superior there. But as far as your point goes, yeah, you can compare them.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 22, 2009 6:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
blocking
Actually Vernon has gotten a lot of love from the 49ers coaches for his blocking. Obviously folks will take that with a grain of salt. Last year his numbers were depressed in part because the 49ers were holding him back to block Martz’s crazy offense. I can’t compare him and Witten in terms of blocking, but I don’t think the gulf is as wide as some of you think.
by Fooch on Dec 22, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Celek>Witten and Davis:)
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 22, 2009 7:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
dude
get the fuck out of here wit that bs .. Gates> Gonzalez> Davis>Witten>Clark>>>>>> Celek
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 22, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
once again
you prove to everyone here you’re a jackass
by sowhatifitisasportste on Dec 22, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
o really?
which of those 5 arnt better than celek .. hmm yea .. they all are .. enough of ur biased celek love .. he isnt better than any of the top 5
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 22, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree celek isnt better than any of the mentioned tight ends
but just as you want everyone to stop the ‘celek love’ you gotta stop the celek-hate. he’s a really good player and there is zero reason to dislike him.
by Q27 on Dec 23, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong. Gonzales>Clark>Davis>Gates>Celek>Witten>Carlson
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
by IronHank on Dec 23, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are u kidding me
gates leads all tes in receptions and yards .. hes the best by far .. davis is better than clark .. and witten is up there with the big 5 .. i laugh hysterically if u say celek over witten hahahahahahah
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, shit. I actually had that backwards. Good job pointing it out.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
by IronHank on Dec 23, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LJ smith?
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 22, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well considering Witten is a proven outstanding TE
for many years now to me plays a big part in him being better. Hard to believe but Witten is only 1-1/2 years older than Davis. So considering how youung he is and he’s a PB its hard to see him declining anytime soon. Davis will improve but still he has been in the league now 4 years.
"When people talk about Super Bowl dynasties they mention the 1970's Steelers, 1980's 49ers, 1990's Cowboys and the current New England Patriots, but nobody has dominated the Super Bowl like Anheuser-Busch. In recent years, Budweiser has been the MVP of Super Bowl advertising -- making another company the favorite to win the Ad Meter poll was never an option."
Simon Noble
by dubious on Dec 22, 2009 10:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Witten, and it's really easy...
Davis is a better blocker?
Ha! Pro Football Focus says that Witten is the best TE in the League, even with his large number of penalties and low number of TDs. Those are numbers are big in PFF formulas.
And their numbers as run blockers? Witten: 16.6 (leads the League). Davis: -5.3.
You may disagree with their numbers, but until you find someone that backs your opinion, I’m taking my own opinion which is backed by this numbers.
Davis is better because he’s surrounded by crap?
I always find this interesting, TEs are awfully hard to evaluate as pass catchers, because they can be surrounded by trash and still post good to great numbers… For example, Crumpler made some Pro Bowls while playing with Michael Vick… Actually, most of Vicks passing numbers came from throwing to Crumpler…
Vernon Davis is a really good TE, but he shouldn’t be mistaken with someone who arguably is the best TE in Football right now.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Dec 23, 2009 1:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Davis is the best pure athlete
But that’s the same as saying LJ Smith was a better athlete then Celek. For what matters in this post (as a receiver) Whitten runs better routes, finds holes in zone coverage and is a smarter player.
by Smallbugger on Dec 23, 2009 3:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
LJ Smith could not catch to save his life
That is NOT the case with Vernon Davis
by tanman5 on Dec 23, 2009 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no way
davis deff deserves to be condisidered .. he has the best skill set .. i still say gates is the best .. but any of them 5 u can make an arguement for .. gates witten davis clark and gonzalaez .. they are the top 5 clear an away
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not an expert at blocking TE’s like some people here, but if I recall correctly Davis put up the most bench reps ever for a TE at the combine and was one of the most highly touted blockers. I think people disregard him as a dominant blocker because of his athleticism. You don’t expect someone who runs a 4.3 to be one of the best blockers in the game. Of course I could be entirly wrong. Last week might have been the first 49ers game I saw this year and I don’t focus on TE that much.
by Makokchina on Dec 23, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Appreciate
all the different perspectives. The whole point I was looking to make is that the Eagles are doing a much better job with coverage on the TE’s lately. I thought that they way they handled Davis should carry over pretty well to the Cowgirls game and Witten. As far as Celek, in my opinion Philly has just recently really started to utilize the position. He is young and I feel in the next few seasons he will prove himself over and over again. A top TE, yes. The top TE, not yet.
I will always be pulling for you #20.
April 20, 1996 - February 28, 2009
by EaglesPhan on Dec 23, 2009 9:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
We’ve got him locked up now. I expect 900 yards and 7 scores next season because he’ll have another full offseason to prepare for being a long-term starter. Saying he’s Chad Lewis 2.0 doesn’t completely do him justice, Celek is not just a good team player and a solid contributer but he’s also the man after the catch. And everybody here loved Chad.
About 10 minutes ago, I was pondering my own existence. Then I decided that it didn't matter.
by IronHank on Dec 23, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ehh
not everyone .. he was decent .. he was slow but had good hands
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For What It's Worth...
ProFootbalFocus.com rates Whitten as the best overall TE in the game and the best run-blocking TE as well.
Davis is ranked 52 overall and both his pass and run-blocking are in the negative.
by Soren K on Dec 23, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I just see that I reinforced the opinion of a d fan on this post. I take back everything I previously posted.
Whitten sucks and so does his team. Enough said.
by Soren K on Dec 23, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
I wish the Eagles had picked him over LJ. Then, he wouldn’t suck.
by Soren K on Dec 23, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol true.. But then we wouldnt have Celek the destructor.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Dec 23, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are u kidding me wild eagle
if u would rather have celek over witten .. im done talking to u man .. done
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 23, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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