Gaga over McCoy? . . . Not so fast my friend
by MG77 on Dec 1, 2009 2:13 PM EST
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Watching the Skins' game with a few friends last week and one of my friends stated "Eagles don't need Westbrook with McCoy now" after that 2-pt conversion. There is some truth to that statement as Westbrook is clearly entering the twilight of his career. Still, I don't get the ridiculous love the Eagles' fans have for McCoy. Maybe it stems from the fact that the Eagles' fans haven't seen a quality young RB since the early days of Westbrook's career several years ago. This isn't to demean McCoy's accomplishments it is just to make a few points:
1. "McCoy is a home-run threat to touch the ball every time" - Nope. He only has one run longer than 20+ yards this year and that is tied for the lowest in the NFLwith RBs who have had at least 120 carries or more this season so far. McCoy is averaging a respectable 4.3 average on his rush attempts but Westbrook is at 4.8 on the season and Weaver is at 5.8 albeit with smaller sample sizes.
2. McCoy puts the ball on the ground too much - He has 2 official fumbles and another one that popped out of bounds that was credit as a fumble. That's not good considering McCoy has only officially touched the ball 150 times this season so far. Basically a fumble about every 50 touches or so which translates into 5 or 6 fumbles over the course of a year. Those are the kind of numbers that might get a RB benched. Once Westbrook became a starter, he never had a season with more than 2 fumbles.
3. Eagles really miss Westbrook on 3rd down. Don't think it is a just a random chance that the Eagles are struggling all-around more this year on 3rd downs (more sacks allowed, less 1st down conversions) because Westbrook isn't in there. Worst part of McCoy's game so far is picking up the blitz packages which really had become a strength of Westbrook. Really need that with a shaky offensive line like the Eagles have this year. Westbrook was also a much more dangerous weapon as a receiver out of the backfield or a checkdown option. Most Eagles' acknowledge that Westbrook was always dangerous on screens but he was also very good at chipping a blitzer & releasing to be a safety value for McNabb. Westbrook also had a great ability to catch some of those awful throws that McNabb tends to make on a swing pass out to a back.
McCoy is having a nice rookie season but it is pretty ridiculous to say the Eagles don't miss Westbrook or that McCoy's overall game is clearly superior to Westbrook's at this point in their careers.
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Westbrook is such a dynamic player that it is far fetched to claim that McCoy could totally replace him as a rookie, but he had done a really good job and really softened the blow of losing our best player from years past.
I agree.
It’s not so much that McCoy is an every down back (which I don’t think he is), but it’s that he has ameliorated the loss of Westbrook by playing well. He has certainly played beyond my expectations. That being said, the Eagles need another running back to complement him, which is why on another post I advocated a 3 headed monster approach with McCoy, Buckley and Weaver getting a combined 30-35 carries a game.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
I really like the idea of a three headed monster, and 30-35 run plays makes my mouth water. With that kind of balance we can get donavan into play-action situations where he thrives.
mcnabb has a great play action fake
and when the eagles run the ball, like they did on sunday, it works so much better, like that one incomplete pass where everyone on the field and on the sidelines thought the ball was handed off and mcnabb went deep.
this may not make complete sense at first, but having a good running game, or at least a running game that the defense has to moderately respect would possibly help the quick strike offense / big plays that are happening fewer and far between in the past couple weeks
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
I love that
IDEA! McNabb as a game manager who can flip the switch and win games with his arm sounds like SB material. Our defense on the field for less plays also sounds like SB material. Not that our D is not great. BUT we are built for speed so less plays and fresh guys means more success.
Agree to a point...
Westy is more dynamic than McCoy. He is a big play threat on any play. He is easier to bring down than McCoy. So I like McCoy for the gritty yards more than BWest. McCoy is still shifty but also adds an element of power. BUT I think McCoy could use a big back(I like Weaver but I mean a real RB) to complement his shiftiness. We haven’t had a complimentary change of pace back sine Watters and Garner. And I think those tandems are very beneficial for offenses. I also don’t think Westy is finished contributing to this team. I would like to see his role change to a Megget/K.Faulk like role. 3rd downs and PR’s. Djax is a better PR guy but his time as our dynamic weapon is now. BWest’s has come and gone.
Westbrook is still>>>McCoy...
I haven’t heard anyone say McCoy is already better than Westy on here. You gotta remember, this is McCoys’s rookie season and he is doing great filling in for the best Eagles running back of all time(don’t anyone dare say Van Buren who played in the 40’s).
Westy will be back as the starter no doubt. Give McCoy a year or so, then he MIGHT get to Westy’s level(probably not because of his awesomeness).
Andy Reid is 43-5 when running the ball at least 30 times in a game( Ray Diddy on Eagles Post Game Live after Bears Victory)
McCoy
is doing pretty good at a lot of things, including blitz pickup (as far as I can tell). Way better than you would expect a rookie in Reid’s system. He’s not the home run threat Westbrook was, but then again not many are. I anticipate he’ll be a steady, even superior, running back for several years, but probably won’t reach Westy’s peak. That’s no indictment on McCoy, just that you don’t find many Westbrook’s for a dollar in the NFL.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Bear Bryant
This line betrays your argument:
Once Westbrook became a starter, he never had a season with more than 2 fumbles.
McCoy was not meant to be a starter this year. He was meant to get PT and plenty of it, but the expectation within and without the organization was not that he would be starting. And he was not starting to begin the season, so comparing the fumble statistics is premature.
As to your overall point, no he has not made up for all things Westbrook, but considering expectations and his age, he has done a great job and shown improvement. He has shown he will be a playmaker and I do believe he will be a home-run threat soon in his career. That’s more than we can ask at this point, so count me as happy with Shady.
Give the kid a chance
Yes he has to work on going N to S and holding the ball better but he’s doing some good things.
To be honest with you, I’ve never seen a back like Westbrook. He was a hybrid RB/WR and nobody w ill be like him.
McCoy is faster (without the vision Westbrook had and not as quick) and he’s also a bit stronger too. He’ll replace Westbrook just fine
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Considering his age, time given to develop, etc.
McCoy is doing phenomenal. He deserves the praise he’s had placed upon him, so long as he continues to improve.
I love Westbrook, but there’s no reason to hate. If one person gets it done, that means the Eagles get it done, and that’s what it’s all about. End of story.
by cwel87 on Dec 1, 2009 5:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I back this post 100%
I see no reason to nitpick on McCoy at this point in time. He’s doing all the Eagles could ask of a rookie, and helping us stay competitive without our most dynamic offensive weapon, which is not something we did well over the years.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
hey
im with u .. im not all over mccoy he hasnt been that good .. there are clearly better rookie rbs
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Dec 1, 2009 6:16 PM EST reply actions
I'm afraid to ask...
…because I think you’re going to name a guy that can’t beat out Tim Hightower for a starting job, but who would you say has been a better rookie RB so far?
He's 21...
He should never had been in this situation, how many 21 year old RB’s have fully taken over a RB spot, and performed like he has so far? (seriously I’d like to know if anyone has the answer)
Also, I think McCoy is a better runner inside the tackles than Westbrook was (or atleast in the future). Westbrook’s catching ability, and amazing open-field explosiveness will be severely missed (along with his great blitz pickup).
But there is no doubt in my mind that McCoy has performed well given the circumstances. He doesn’t have Staley and Buck like Westbrook had for example.
You forget your history....
Westbrook:
2002 – 46 carries – 2 fumbles – 4.2 ypc
2003 – 117 carries – 3 fumbles – 5.2 ypc
McCoy this season:
123 carries – 2 fumbles – 4.3 ypc
I think you guys forget Westbrook was a small situational RB that grew into the powerhouse he is today…. In some ways I think McCoy might be better as a rookie. We just need McCoy more as a rookie than we asked of Westbrook.
The perfect situation
If Westbrook comes back to 100% by the playoffs (I hope he does everything he needs to to get better, without serious risks)
We have a chance to have a healthy westbrook in the playoffs… isn’t that something we’ve been dreaming of?
1 more thing....
Westbrook’s longest run his rookie year was 18 yards…. and your complaining about McCoy only have 1 run over 20 yards?
To add on to McCoy...
The 1 fumble caused by Tillman wasn’t really his fault. He had 2 hands on the ball, instead of winging it around with one hand…and it was Tillman’s 3rd FF of the game.
I don’t think McCoy’s fumbling will be THAT big of a problem, since he’s already made the adjustment to his carry.
I don’t think McCoy’s fumbling will be THAT big of a problem, since he’s already made the adjustment to his carry.
I really like McCoy, but with the way he carries the football, he’s extremely lucky not to have fumbled a lot more already (knocking on wood). If I’m a defensive coach, I’m instructing all my players to go after the football hard every time McCoy touches the ball.
Two hands on the ball and having it punched out...
Is still the ball carriers fault. Not that Tillman did not make a great play but that one is still on McCoy.
by IgglesFanDeployd on Dec 2, 2009 3:12 AM EST up reply actions
I like Shady...
Hes going to be a very good player and a fine RB for the Eagles for years to come. As long as they have another back to share the load with him I’m fine. Westbrook is probably the greatest Eagles RB EVER…hard to compare a rookie whos played 10 games.
We need to split McCoy out wide.
I used to love when the Eagles did it with Westy. It put defenses on their heels. And wasnt McCoy supposed to be one of the better pass-catching RBs in the draft.
RIP Jim Johnson. You will truly be missed.
I love that you brought this up!
I was just telling my dad the other day that that is the aspect I miss most of Westy’s abilities. He’s a great run threat, but an equally impressive route runner with great hands. I was looking forward to seeing some sets where Westy and McCoy were on the field together and one was split wide. Make the defense commit to one and create the mismatch with the other.
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down... OH NOOOooo!
it's hard to judge mccoy at this point
i’m a fan of mccoy’s and i’m excited about his potential. and i think that’s where the excitement from philly fans is stemming from-potential. is he better than westbrook? thats not even a fair comparison considering westbrook is entering his 8th season. people are excited over mccoy because of the way he’s playing as a rookie. (it does make my heart drop whenever he runs with the ball a mile away from his body though) overall i think people are just getting excited about what mccoy CAN be and automatically assume that’s what he is.
MG77
Good commentary general. Couple of points:
- Didn’t mean to knock McCoy but my point here is that I get the impression when I go out to a bar that people are acting like McCoy is playing at a very high level right now. He’s not. Capable starter sure but he has a long ways to go.
- I do think McCoy will improve but RB has been and will continue to be one of the spots where a player can come in right away having a huge impact. It isn’t one of the positions (T, WR, CB, DE) where rookies tend to struggle a bit in their 1st year.
- McCoy stinks on blitz pickup and McNabb has gotten really antsy in the pocket especially on 3rd downs when McCoy is in. Line has generally given McNabb better time the past 2 weeks so this hasn’t been as much of an issue.
- I have mixed feeling on McCoy as a receiver right now. Reid has really dialed back on the screens in large part because of running the wildcat a bit more and because McCoy already has 4 drops this year. I would say McCoy is an average/above average receiver right now out of the backfield with the capability of becoming pretty good the next year or two. That is vital because the RB gets a bunch of balls thrown his way in Reid’s system. Need a RB who can catch and make some plays.
- Really hard to judge McCoy as on his running ability/style at this point because this offensive line run blocking has been pretty inconsistent this season especially on the right side. Whenever they need a big play, they almost always going to the left-side or up the middle behind Jackson. Justice just hasn’t run-blocked all that well and Stacy Andrews/Jean-Gillies have both been the worst players on the line this year. Plus, McCoy really hasn’t had that many carries.
- McCoy really needs to emphasize on tucking the ball into his armpit and not carrying it loose in the open field. Way too many times this year he lets it dangle once he gets past the line of scrimmage. Recipe for disaster as more experienced defensive players in the secondary/LB will come tomahawking at that ball to cause a fumble. Staring RBs in the NFL generally can avoid about 2-3 fumbles a year on 225-250 touches. Once they start getting up to 5-6 fumbles, it usually causes a coach to bench a RB.
Hell, fumbles are the reason that Peterson is overrated as a RB. He gets way too sloppy at times when he makes contacts and you can strip the ball from him. Already had 6 fumbles this year and lost 5 of them. Compare that to the best RB in the league (Chris Johnson) who only had 1 fumble this year and last year. AP gets all the press but I would take Johnson any day of the week over AP.
McCoy is horrible at blitz pick-up?
I haven’t been able to watch the Eagles too much this year due to school but I was under the general impression that McCoy is very good at picking up the blitz. I think I even remember the commentators and analysts talking about it. And from a few games I’ve seen, I don’t remember the blitz pick up being a problem with McCoy in the backfield. But again, I haven’t been able to catch that many games this year so feel free to correct me.
Relax on McCoy
It’s his rookie season. He’s taken on more of a workload then anyone expected him to do and he’s done a FANTASTIC job at it. His biggest knock on him coming out of college was his blitz pickup. So he’s not the best at it, but he’s a rookie and from what everyone is saying he’s gotten better at it as the season has gone on. His running has become better and more consistent and his catching out of the backfield has gotten much better too. Again he’s a rookie who never thought he’d get this kind of consistent playing time. He’s doing great and remember comparing him to Westbrook you have to use Westbrook’s rookie season as well, not what he did the last few years. And I think comparing the two rookie seasons……McCoy is doing a better job.
I’m excited to see what this kid can do in the next few seasons, this season will do wonders for his confidence. My biggest concern for him is how he carries the ball and I’d personally like to see him add about 5 – 10 pounds to be able to take more of a pounding.
Why should I be worried?
Westbrook hasn’t done anything really this year besides get hurt. And a ROOKIE came in and has played solid football. I’m sorry he isn’t Ladanian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson but he can run the ball well, he can handle pressure, he can block pretty well for someone who didn’t do a lot of it before and he can catch shovel passes. He’s young and can only get better. Also, news flash, the running game isn’t really our emphasis on offense. Westbrook was dynamic as a reciever as well, Shady hasn’t shown that yet, but what we lost with Westbrook we have gained in players like Jackson, Maclin and Celek. McCoy hasn’t replaced Westbrook and probably will never be threat that Westy was, however the combined talent of our young players makes us not need Westbrook as much as we used to. There isn’t much of a difference when he playing or not like there used to be when Westbrook being out usually meant a loss. What would possess someone to crap all over a solid rookie performance?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
ok look
When’s the last time we have taken a RB in the 2nd round??? Not in Reids era… But McCoy has the skill set to be like Westbrook, and he has done some good stuff this year. He’s only what 20 maybe early 21? Thats pretty damn good, and an offseason of getting stronger will help with the ball security stuff b/c I think a few of those fumbles come from his lack of strength…
McCoy has a shit ton of potential… And the Hype is deserved in my opinion
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
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