What does it take to win a championship?
by Joe_D on Nov 18, 2009 5:55 PM EST
119 comments
I was thinking (probably a bad thing) while working today.. We all want to throw our coaching staff out and start fresh. But really, how many things have to go your way for your team to win a championship?
I noticed a few things:
A) Injuries. The team has to have any depth to cover injuries and if the injury bug gets bad enough at a bad time it can become too much for a team to over come. How many SB teams have we seen come through who got killed with injuries?
B) Schedule -- Almost every SB in recent memory has had soft(ish)/(er) schedule. It makes playing consistent much easier and if you hit a few injury plagued weeks, it eases the blows.
C) Playing hot at the right time. Like the Steelers in 05 and Giants in 07 both of these teams played red hot in the playoffs. You can be 12-4 in regular season and if a team is on fire that 12-4 team can be playing golf in February..Kinda like the Eagles ending the Giants season last year.
D) Mistake free. Remember the 04 patriots? Honestly, from top the bottom they weren't that spectacular talent wise. They always seemed to be in tight games, but GD they won every close game on the schedule (including the SB). Can't play good teams and make mistakes, they'll capitalize sooner or later.
E) A good QB/defense. Arguably the two most important things on the team. Both can make or break a team. To be honest, I thought the Steelers offense last year was mediocre at best. Their line sucked, skill players weren't top of the line but their defense kept them in every game and Ben Roethlisberger is probably the best QB with 2 minutes to go. Almost every SB winner has a good defens and very few have bad quarterbacks.
F) LUCK - Every SB team has the ball bounce their way a couple of times. Whether it be penalties, turnovers or miracle catches (David Tyree anyone?) there is absolutely some luck involved in this highly skilled game.
Couple that with 31 other teams in a parity league, it's not so easy getting a ring. What Reid has done is give us a chance to win it since the year 2000. Is there any other team besides the Colts that can say this? Is there any other team who is as young and talented as our roster? Has Joe Banner not tried to sign our young talent long term and bring in top flight FA every year? It tok Cowher 15 years, it might take Reid less , might take him more. Either way, Banner/Reid '10 (and beyond) baby.
Anything else I left out ????
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The QB has to have a go to guy for third down. Someone he trusts and has great chemistry with.
03’/04’ – Kevin Faulk
05’ Hines Ward
06’ Dallas Clark
07’ Steve Smith
08’ Santonio Holmes
I guess Jason Avant could be that guy now, but since Chad Lewis when down I never though McNabb had a guy that he trusted.
"Seriously… F off." JasonB to a Denver fan after Dawk left.
by DownHillBradley on Nov 18, 2009 8:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
McNabb needs to find
McCoy, Celek and Avant on 3rd down… Mainly Avant didnt like 75% of his catches last year go for first downs on 3rd down?
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 19, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Avant’s a beast. If I need, need, need a completion on any given play, he’s my go to guy. No question about it. He has been since the end of the last season. Beast.
by andyreidswaistline on Nov 20, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats why we need to give him the damn
ball.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 20, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly...
its nice to see someone who gets me on here lol
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 24, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol theres gonna be a lotta people that are gonna rip your heart out for...
Banner/Reid ’10 (and beyond) baby.
..especially how playcalling on reid’s behalf (even though mm calls the plays reid is still the head coach) has been critical this and past seasons. however i fully agree. how many other teams have had a consistent coach (theres that damn word consistent again), front office, qb, a go-to player, and defense in the last decade? honestly no one. i say no to the colts cause their defense has never really been that intimidating, same thing with the patriots. i’m really like the fact that you mentioned luck, cause that is huge as well. schedule? super bowl caliber teams should be able to post a winning record against any schedule really.
anyway, the fact of the matter is that for the last 10 years we have consistently had what it takes to win the big one, and i’m gonna go out on a limb and say the only reason we haven’t is cause of …..umm….luck??
Weapon X eats babies for breakfast.
by immynimmy on Nov 18, 2009 8:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
People bitch about the play calling
Because they don’t understand the concept of a west coast offense.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 18, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not really talking the lack of run game
more the 3rd/4th and shorts
…nonetheless the run game is not utilized enough, although that doesn’t necessarily lead to success. Furthermore i rarely see playactions used either. not enough screens and remember that end around against san diego. you CAN NOT do that against a 3-4, thats ridiculous
Weapon X eats babies for breakfast.
by immynimmy on Nov 18, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you Joe
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 19, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you and a select few others. lol
World Series- check
NBA Title- check
Stanley Cup- check
Superbowl- In progress...
by Route36 on Nov 20, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not with him.
I disagree with his assessment.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 28, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Andy/Marty are the ones not getting it....
Childress sure does. Maybe they could call him up for some pointers. He is doing really well with his 53%-47% pass to run ratio in a WCO. Yes, I know they have AP and a good O-line but I’m just trying to make the point that the West Coast Offense does NOT require calling short passes to replace the running game like you keep saying. A good running game opens up the passing game. Just look at Farve’s numbers this year.
Other examples…
Holmgren ran the WCO riding Sean Alexander to the Superbowl. Bill Walsh won his third Superbowl in 1988, the year Roger Craig had 310 rushing attempts for 1500 yards.
West Coast Offense is better with a running game and you can’t argue that.
World Series- check
NBA Title- check
Stanley Cup- check
Superbowl- In progress...
by Route36 on Nov 20, 2009 4:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
any team
in any system, is better with a running game. i havent remembered a powerful running game with this team since the three headed ‘monster’ of duce staley, westbrook, and buckhalter
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
by BadCo'09 on Nov 20, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe D thinks...
that that one of the attributes of a WCO is replacing the running game with short passes. I was just making the point that some of the best run West Coast Offenses of all time had a good running game.
World Series- check
NBA Title- check
Stanley Cup- check
Superbowl- In progress...
by Route36 on Nov 20, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That and...
If your going to win in the playoffs and in the superbowl, I think ball control, defense, and being able to grind out the end of a game and keep the other team’s offense off the field is pretty important.
However, anything to do with a running game, ball control, in game adjustments by the coaches to exploit the other team’s weakness, or any blame not placed directly on Donovan McNabb seem very trivial to our author, Mr. JoeD.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jody aint that bad
i dont agree with him too often, but he does know football and debates are always good for the soul. i just wonder what would have happened if the eagles had a good ground game or clock killing offense in some of those NFCCGs
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
by BadCo'09 on Nov 20, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really NOT...
Trying to have a personal issue with JoeD.
But multiple times, on multiple threads I’ve called him out asking for him to please debate me on coaching vs. McNabb as I have provided plenty of reasons why he should at least acknowledge the fact that coaching plays a fairly significant role in our team’s shortcomings. I atleast have acknowledged that I understand his POV when it comes to our team I just don’t agree completely because I place atleast half the blame on our in game management and playcalling. The fact that he doesn’t is where I start to lose respect for him especially when he mentions some of us calling for AR’s head. I’m more for calling for MM’s head if it’s a matter of who needs to go. If anything I am in full support of AR sticking around, but having a smarter playcaller as O coordinator.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know what, u just gave me an idea
ill start working on it after my class is done in like an hour, but without thinkin too much about it, i like it, check the fanposts throughout the day
RIP JJ & HK
Just fucking win. (as said by LegendKnight22)
by BadCo'09 on Nov 20, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where haven't I defended my arguments?
I acknowledged Reid isn’t perfect nor is any coach, nor will reid ever be perfect.
Did you hear Jon Runyan last night on WIP? He said it perfectly
“The way this offense is setup its extremely hard to stop if ITS RIGHT RIGHT…. The patriots went 16-0 with an even more imbalanced passing attack. It’s about execution. We still haven’t had one set of lineman play more than 2 whole games together consistently.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 20, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's RUN right
cobb’d
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 20, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How'd that work out...
For the pass heavy, 16-0, let’s keep chucking it deep to Randy in Superbowl losing patriots.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a terrible argument
they were the best team in history, and you’re saying it didn’t work well for them?
by eagleyosh on Nov 20, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not sarcasm
Terrible. Argument. Maybe not best team in history (although that could be argued). Best offense in history.
by eagleyosh on Nov 21, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
um ok.
wasnt really an argument as much as pointing out that despite them being a very successful, record setting pass first unbalanced offense, a defensive minded, run first team still beat them in the superbowl…
I wouldn’t be that thrilled if the birds when 18-0 and then lost in the superbowl…I’d rather see a 9-7 eagles team go all the way, but that’s just me.
Didn’t realize you put the regular season on some passing records above a championship season…to me, that’s a pretty terrible mindset.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 21, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*And some passing records..not “on”
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 21, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't say that
No team has won as many games as they did in a single season. They lost the wrong game. I would rather the eagles won the super bowl. But to say that they didn’t win the super bowl because they were pass happy is a severe manipulation of history. We’re talking about one of the greatest teams ever. I hate the patriots, but they were a great team. They beat every team on their schedule with that pass happy offense (beat the giants week 17). That just shows….a pass heavy offense can be a winning offense. To say that it can’t because the Patriots lost ONE GAME in an entire season (that just happened to be the most important) is ludicrous.
by eagleyosh on Nov 21, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please show me...
A pass happy, unbalanced offense that has won a superbowl in recent memory because I sure can’t think of one without checking the statistical pass/run ratios of every superbowl winning team. Can you honestly think of one without doing so. I say the greatest show on turf is probably the best example but they had Marshall Faulk who was a beast.
That was the point of saying how they lost in the superbowl, not to bash the greatest regular season team in history. I understand they were a near unbeatable team that lost to the god damn lucky giants in the SB don’t get me wrong. I was just pointing out how they didn’t win since they were brought up..Not by me.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 23, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the patriots were good enough to win the bowl
they wre good enough to beat any team in the league. That’s my point. You’re saying they lost the superbowl, and therefore a team that passes that much can’t win it. I’m saying that the patriots win that game 95 times out of 100, and therefore them losing in teh super bowl was the exception, not the rule.
by eagleyosh on Nov 23, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough.
Let’s not get it twisted that I was talkin shit on the 18-1 patriots…I was more or less stating they lost the superbowl in a debate of sorts with JoeD…
And I fucking wish they beat the giants…trust me. I hate giant fans…eh…with that superbowl win and the way they did it…what can ya even say besides getting lucky.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 23, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with eagleyosh here
you can lose any game in this league…the Patriots lost the wrong one. But to go 18-1 is AWESOME! No, it’s not a superbowl, and I’d rather go 9-7 and win the Superbowl….but you can’t even say the Giants were a better team, you can only say they played a better game.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 21, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Think 5 plus 10 equals 6
is arguing that a team can still be good as a pass heavy team. The Patriots were a perfect example of a team that put it together week in and week out with 60-65% pass. The difference, I suppose, is that our definitions of success are not the same. My definition of success is winning a super bowl and historically, the teams that win super bowls have a good mix of running and passing.
by rharris0127 on Nov 23, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are 5 SB champions in the last decade that were VERY unbalanced
’07 Giants= 4th in run; 21st in pass
’06 Colts = 2nd in pass; 18th in run
’05 Steelers = 5th in run; 25th in pass
’03 Patriots = 9th in pass; 27th in run
’00 Ravens = 5th in run; 22nd in pass
_______________________________
’09 Eagles = 9th in pass; 23rd in run
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 24, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the stats.
And sort of proving my point besides the pats and the colts.
The SB winning colts relied heavily on Rhodes that game (mvp imo as Peyton’s game was very mediocre by his standards but he is Peyton) and rankings don’t necessarily translate into run/pass ratio…
does show that you can be very weak in the passing dept as long as your have a nasty run game and a sick D.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 24, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, i think i'm getting your argument now
I thought you were saying unbalanced REGARDLESS of pass/run. You are really only arguing against pass-heavy offenses, not run-heavy…is that right?
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 24, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
correct.
This whole thing started over establishing a run game or atleast dedicating a near equal % of the offensive plays to running…so that it takes pressure off McNabb and because we are a much more successful team when a balanced offense is put into effect.
It was all over execution vs. playcalling and I was just stating how if we balance the offense, it makes everything on the offensive side of the ball work better…its not to say we can’t be successful throwing 50+ times a game, it’s just that it makes winning easier when the coaching staff uses balance which happens to translate into a higher chance of success in the post season and eventually the superbowl…
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 24, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree to an extent
sometimes things don’t work. Running was NOT working against SD (13 carries for 29 yds)…passing was NOT working against Oakland…I’m in favor of moving to what works, and adjusting the gameplan. It pissed me off against Oakland that we didn’t run more when passing wasn’t working; but I was fine with giving up on the running game against SD when the pass was working just fine.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 24, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
That makes complete sense to me and wholeheartedly agree.
That’s what really frustrates me more than even balancing the offense…The absolute lack of in game adjustments which has to be a reflection of the coaching staff.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 24, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How?
How do we execute if our quarterback cannot consistently hit short targets? We need a run game, period.
by Soren K on Nov 24, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gwet a QB who can
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 25, 2009 7:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tebow or Kolb.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 25, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kolb?
Hmm…no thanks
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 25, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tebow is a hard worker so he might find a way to become and NFL QB I just don’t see it ever happening.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Nov 25, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, thats what Ive been argueing with JIBTA over...
He has natural talent, and football smarts… Add hard work and you got fucking gold.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 25, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He will never be an NFL QB
Hes a poor mans Vince Young with worse mechanics
by Team Serbia on Nov 27, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, just watch and see.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 27, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WHOA … he definitely has better mechanics than happy feet VY. But neither on of them should be putting on QB clinics.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Nov 30, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even understand how this is debatable honestly.
Balanced Offense > Unbalanced Offense…plain and simple.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 25, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
What has that have to do with McNabb’s ability to completely miss wide open WRs and sometimes not even see them?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 25, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It Doesn't
What does that have to do with the coaching staff calling balanced plays and making in game adjustments to keep the defense guessing and to exploit what the opposing team is doing?
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 25, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So
The play calling is off balanced and thats the rason why mcnabb starts sucking?
Interesting logic there.
What about when we’re down1 0 pts in the 4th quarter and we have to start throwing heavy?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 26, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just stop responding...
Cause you obviously cannot grasp the concept of my argument here.
I think its pretty obvious what I’m trying to say here. You are just plain flat out stubborn and ignorant. It obviously makes plenty of sense to throw when you need to come back…but it also makes complete sense to balance the offense and keep the defense guessing. Why don’t you address that part of the statement and stop trying to say I’m making excuses for McNabb. It’s plain a fucking simple…we would have more success as a team if we balanced the fucking offense. We would also have more success if McNabb always played at a consistently high level. But you just want to keep saying short passes are the same thing as running…You’re fucking dead wrong. It’s just flat out easier to be successful when you also run the god damn ball.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 26, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know what you're saying
But it’s flat out wrong
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 27, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andy Reid is a goddamn moron
You are right.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 27, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve always believed that a good team can execute a play successfully even if the defense knows what the play is. So keeping them guessing just doesn’t sit well with me, go out there do your job and success will follow.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely True.
That is completely, 100% true and I’m not saying that we shouldn’t still be able to impose our will, whether that be 70% pass, etc.
But, Don’t you think it makes success come easier when the defense doesn’t know what play we’re calling…
Alls I’m trying to say is with a balanced attack, it just makes everything easier and takes pressure off McNabb.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 30, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Success isn't about making the defense guess
it’s about executing.
A run play isn’t successful just because the defense thought you were going to pass and you tricked them. Does that happen, sure…but more often than not the defense (especially in critical 3rd down moments) knows exactly whether you’re going to run or pass, and balance doesn’t mean anything.
A balanced offense does a couple good things though…successful running does set up play action passing, which McNabb is spectacular at executing. It also (as you mentioned) takes pressure off McNabb…but so does a 3 step drop, a screen pass, or really any quick release pass play.
I like a balanced offense, but I don’t think it’s necessary for success in this league. With an accurate QB, you can do everything you need to, including keeping pressure off the passer, all within the pass game
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 1, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said success was ONLY based on balancing the offense to keep the defense guessing…
It simply HELPS take pressure off an inconsistent QB…Plain and Simple.
Why don’t the colts, pats, and saints throw it over 75% of the time with that logic.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Dec 1, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There were a few times.
Mainly during the McNabb bashing threads…
One that sticks out in my mind without having to go back through old comments is where you were saying we lost to the Raiders due to poor execution, which is 100% right.
However, it was poor execution of an even worse gameplan and wasn’t adjusted during the game whatsoever. I just found it very hard to believe that you found no fault in the coaching especially during that game where we average over 5 yards a carry rightfully so against a porous, 31st ranked rushing D where we were behind no more than 1 score and yet, continued to chuck the ball which played right into the hands of the best part of the Raiders team, their Dline.
That’s all man…I really do NOT have problem with you or your comments, but your boy, jalarson was even responding for you as you two share a very similar opinon in some of those threads. If you look back on comments of yours with replies you will see.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
correction.
Not that you didn’t find any fault in the coaching during the Raiders game, but the fact that you were still blaming McNabb when really, the vast majority of the reason we lost that game was simply due to bad pre-game and in-game coaching. McNabb was not given the right offensive gameplan to succeed that game. Should he still been able to overcome it…probably. But should have there been better coaching…definitely.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
A few things in the OAK game
a) Players were open ALL freaking day in the OAK game. Obviously, there were a LOT of injuries on the line which didn’t help things but it’s up to the quarterback to hit the WRs when the WRs are open.
b) If playing are getting open how is that bad play calling/game planning on the coaches part?
c) Our line was decimated. The only reason why we had that ypc was because we broke off a couple big runs and the rest were 1 yard gainers.
Could we have ran it more? Sure, but that was one of McNabb’s WORST games I have ever seen.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 20, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could we have ran it more? Sure, but that was one of McNabb’s WORST games I have ever seen.
That something I don’t get. You know whether or not Good McNabby or bad McNabby will show up after the first quarter. When McNabb is on his “I’m going to suck more than Ryan Leaf” days the play calling is…more passes?
And yes, the running game wasn’t on a good day either. Just a bunch of 1 yard gain and 2 yards gains. Of course, it’s better to have three plays going for 1 or 2 yards than 3 pass plays going incomplete, which net you 0 yards. The latter was happening a lot that Raiders game…
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
by Imp on Nov 20, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And
We were moving the ball up until we got to their 30-40 yard line and then McNabb got worse. Honestly, I don’t know what the coaches saw, but when their top CB is out on top of their already BAD defense — that game is on the players.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 20, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lets not talk about the raiders
early in the season the jets beat the pats…now look at their records
"It's unfortunate that happened. That's no excuse. Absolutely no excuse."
-Andy Reid
by immynimmy on Nov 20, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
done with the raiders game...
Running the ball…would’ve kept their pass rush more honest…plus it would’ve worn down their d-line like most teams did to them the whole year…there is a reason they ranked in the bottom two of the league..
But…yes, despite our game plan and playcalling we should’ve still beat the raiders…its the raiders!
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 21, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
first of all
Joe_D and I are not boys. The last time he responded to me directly, he called me “fuck face”
I do happen to agree with his assessment of our offensive inconsistency…but let’s not get too friendly here.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 21, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe D never heard of Roger Craig
That’s my theory. He is too young to remember the 49ers teams with Montana
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 28, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY +1
Thank you.
You want to glorify our coaches for our consistent relativity each season when guess who, your favorite Eagles QB of all time has been the starter for almost every season. But that has no bearing based on your way of thinking.
Please tell me how the Raiders faired with record setting Rich Gannon who was all about the quick west coast offense throws in place of a consistent running game the year he broke Marino’s record.
You need a running game to be a superbowl winning team or atleast have one that you can rely on to get that One tough yard. Your analysis is once again severely flawed.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That comment was directed at our wonderful author btw.
Route36, I’m with ya 1000%
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rich gannon is really a horrible example. the buccs knew what they were gonna run because Gruden had put everything in place the year before. Gruden knew and schooled his defense on that temas tendancies and what to look for. that was an incredibly coached game on the part of John Gruden
by 0sirys on Nov 20, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok.
Not really concerned with Gannon personally, and i really think he was overrated as shit that year and the fact that he broke Marino’s yardage record with a majority of the yards being YAC is bullshit.
I was just trying to show how a west coast offense coached team with a lackluster running game will struggle as the Gannon ran Raiders and we do because of our refusal to commit to the running game.
Also, that O-line’s aren’t critical to win a superbowl because because Pitts line wasn’t that good last year and they won! is just another dumbfuck argument.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O-lines aren't important?
The fact they won the SB with such a bad line was an annonally.
The Giants had a GREAT line in 07
Before that the Colts had a great line
Before that the Steelers line was good (had a nice running attack).
The Pats teams had great lines…
So no, your one anonally doesn’t cancel out the rest of the years “dumb fuck.”
I often wonder how many years some people have been watching football….or if they ever played, or quite honestly if they watch the games sober or not.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 20, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess i was referencing...
item letter E where you were talking about the Steelers having a bad line.
I misread and for that, I apologize. I thought because you were referencing QB/defense and then talked about how Pitt was successful with a bad O line you were saying that a quality O line isn’t important for success if your QB is good enough…which i guess is partially true. I read it kind of quick at work…my bad.
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 20, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when you watched that superbowl didn’t you think it was funny how Tampa seemed to know every play Oakland was going to run? that is because Jon Gruden installed that offense in Oakland the year before going to the superbowl with Tampa. the Buccaneers defense literally knew the entire play book and all the check downs and reads. they really knew everything that was coming, making the Raiders number 1 offense that year totally ineffective against the Buccaneers number 1 defense. it had NOTHING to do with the team’s ability or lack there of to run. I only mentioned Gannon because you did, my point was basing your argument on that 1 game and that 1 team is completely invalid due to the circumstances
by 0sirys on Nov 20, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure his advice would consist of him telling Andy Reid to “draft Adrian Peterson if you get a chance”
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Nov 20, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon joe....
west coast offense or no…..when we pass 70% of the time on first down, none of the defenses out there are surprised. i fully understand the concept, but without balance we have no chance of being deceptive.
"it's like i tell my ex-wife, i never drive faster than i can see, and besides it's all in the reflexes." -Jack Burton, Big trouble in little China
by snowhill82 on Nov 20, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
still baffled...
by the QB who can hit the short throws in place of a running game argument…
It’s called keeping the defense off balance…
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 25, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about when you're down 17 pts
and you HAVE to throw?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 25, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is that a serious question.
Because you just answered it…you would obviously HAVE to throw it.
Throwing the gross majority of the game when the score is close…not so much…how bout you?
by 5 plus 10 equals 6 on Nov 25, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand throwing when the game is close
our offense is built on scoring early and often. We are a big play offense, and that’s how Andy likes it. He wants to put points up on the board as quickly as possible…and you need to throw to do that.
If you want to get frustrated with anything, get frustrated if we throw the ball while we have a lead and we’re not running down the clock. That’s the position we should worry most about running the ball successfully in.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 1, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What isn't luck
Is consistently keeping the cap in check while maintaining a young and talented roster. Yes we’ve made mistakes but what team hasn’t? We just haven’t come through when the opportunities presented themselves. There were other games where the ball didn’t bounce in our direction that day either. It happens, but can anyone honestly say, if t his season turns out to be a wash(hypothetically speaking), that next year we don’t have a chance to contend again?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 18, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Luck is really an excuse. if you come down to it, all the nfc championship games (aside from TB) and even the SB we performed well but it just came short. makes you wonder what it takes. i just don’t think we play good in games that come down to the final minutes (i think we can play good in games that are close, we have proven that, don’t know why a lot of people have been mentioning that lately)
Our front office has been spectacular (more so over the past 3-5 years as opposed to the first few years of the reid/mcnabb era) and thats a huge plus because obviously the FO is the most under appreciated aspect of a franchise.
As long as we have a squad filled with a mixture of veterans, talent, chemistry and heart (which we have had, and still do mind you) we will always be a contender.
You can bring the fact of coaching and the Front office which is valid, but those aren’t the guys responsible of executing. And despite what others have said our coaching (over the past decade) and FO has been above avg in the league
Weapon X eats babies for breakfast.
by immynimmy on Nov 18, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely
Reid has his obvious faults, no doubt about it.
While he is not great at making in game adjustments, I feel that he is a very good game planner.
I look at the patriots game of 07, we were very close to beating a team that was annihilating just about everyone else. I also feel that the game plan they laid help provide other teams with an idea of how to beat them. I am aware that the defense was the biggest contribution in this game, but I am lumping the whole coaching staff together.
His strongest attribute is drafting, IMO. Unlike many other teams, we have not had to experience a real rebuilding time, he seems to have almost completely retooled the team, without losing quality along the way. I am aware of the Oline troubles, but last spring, everything seemed great, and I am sure it will get fixed this offseason.
by Tbot86 on Nov 18, 2009 10:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
at times reid makes me want to rip my hair out
but there is no doubt in my mind that this team is better off with him on the sideline.
by Q27 on Nov 19, 2009 12:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
Joe_D mentioned 6 factors. You can have 1 good year, when these factors (especially luck, schedule and injuries, that you can not controll) come together, and you are at the SB but before and after, you are nowhere near it (Seahawks, Bears, etc.).
But being a contender for (at least) 7-8 years means you are doing really well with those factors, that you can control.
by samson9 on Nov 19, 2009 4:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
This was a great analysis!
ou can have 1 good year, when these factors (especially luck, schedule and injuries, that you can not controll) come together, and you are at the SB but before and after, you are nowhere near it
I’ve thought this for a while, but never could word it that easily!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 19, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is what is most frustrating about this team. It’s the things you can’t control that seem to get us. Especially the injuries, this team often looks like a hospital ward at the end of the season. I know other people have injuries but it always seems we have more injures to key players at key times. Think of how the last 2 years would have been had Jackson and Maclin not panned out when Curtis or Brown went down. How much better would this Oline be if the injuries weren’t there? Jamaal Jackson is the only one that has been healthy all season and those have been filling in haven’t been playing the same position on the line all season. I was terrified going into last weeks game based solely on the fact that all our linebackers were playing out of position(yes I know witherspoon is naturally a will) and our secondary was basically down to 2 healthy experienced corners. I guess the plus that comes out of that is we have have witherspoon and hopefully a healthy big stew back for next year. With all the Injuries we have had this year we could be a lot worse off
by 0sirys on Nov 19, 2009 8:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
last week
when I got the Eagles text that Peter’s was likely out…I looked to my wife and said, “the Eagles just texted me that we’re going to lose today”…
She says, “wait, the Eagles wrote that in a text?”
the way the injuries are going this year, they may as well have (though I thought Herremans was really good filling in)
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 19, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
herreman’s was good but this line would be so much better if everyone could get and stay healthy and I am pretty sure I had the same or similar conversation with my wife. Also had the " the eagles just texted me and told me Westbrook is retiring" conversation after the text about the second concussion.
by 0sirys on Nov 19, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries...
I hear you 0sirys, and I’m also fed up with this “new series of Doctor House at Eagles” with mysterious injuries, but at the same time I have to agree with Quintin Mikell who said yesterday:
“Injuries are no excuses for a team, because it’s the time for another player to step up and show his abilities…it was the same with me…”
You mentioned Jackson and Maclin, I add Celek, and perhaps Justice, Kolb, McCoy, Babin and even Spoon. When their numbers were called (because of injuries), they stepped in and perfomed, and the Eagles capitalized from their appearance.
Though, I’ve seen enough new performers for this year…:)
by samson9 on Nov 20, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with most of this....
but there is one thing I think that is missing, although it was hinted on, and that is closing out games. This has been the most frustrating thing about the Eagles to me in recent years.
Most of our games are close. It is very rare that we get blown out. It just seems to me that we haven’t had the players that will step up and make the winning plays at the end of the game. See the Cardinals game last year. Hell, see the last two games this year. Or the Raiders game. I’m talking offense, defense, and this includes McNabb. I don’t know why this is.
Damn, I’ve been away from this place for a while. Go to get on and post more often.
by MRPH on Nov 19, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.........!
"... You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it. That's the great thing about sports: you play to win..."
by Realtalk32 on Nov 19, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well I heard rumor that
people are calling for AR and all the QB’s to be thrown out at the end of the year…
this is stupid as hell in my opinion… AR is one of the best coaches to wear eagles green… McNabb/Kolb have the talent to get it done(some argue kolb but I think he can do good things for us) and we dont have the O-line now to sustain a rookie QB, and a ton of coaching changes…
IDK if its true but my dad told me some fans are calling for it to happen… Tebow/M. Johnson/Lindley 2010 baby
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 19, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's stupid
we’ve been competitive because of our relative continuity. Players are traded/signed to other teams, and we replace them almost without missing a beat. To lose a coach and ALL your QBs is a terrible idea. Why?
Some of us might be ready to move on from McNabb, but those of us who are, believe Kolb is going to be successful for us. I understand trading Vick, I believe that was the idea from the beginning.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 20, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was stupid...
I want andy for another 3-4 years after that I thing McDermott can step it(yes I think he is Eagles HC material)
McNabb’s dirt balls are pissing me off and the terrible inconsistancy just makes it worse, there are times when I want him to be gone and there are others where I want him to win. Like his 450yrd performance really pissed me off because he has that ability but never unleashes it till the games outta reach.
Kolb has potential, he cannot throw as far as McNabb but if we could become more of short-medium range type of team that would be better because we have a higher percentage of getting those short-mid types of passes completed.. Also this would FORCE us to run the ball a little more.
Vick is nothing but trade bait, there are at least 4-5 teams that will need a starting quality(not that vick is but he’s too much potential to a team with no options) and there are only 3 or so good QB’s coming out this year in the draft. I see us getting a 4th or 5th for vick if he turns up his play.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 20, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
B can be totally different in the other way with
the help of F. I have witnessed many teams with hard schedules and hard divisions like ours in the NFC East, get alot of lucky breaks in a season due to the other team having injuries when they did play each other. In our division , that sometimes makes or breaks who wins it when they are so closely matched. For example, the Eagles may play the Giants fully healthy one week and the Cowboys may play the same Giants that are more banged up the next week. Just cause the schedule is tough at the beginning doesn’t mean its tough the whole season depending on when teams on your schedule have some rough times. It makes or breaks a season at times.
by dubious on Nov 20, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Keep it simple stupid...
Run the ball. Stop the run. OR Have an Elite QB to cover up for the fact that you cant do one of the two previous thing (Tom Brady, Joe Montana or Peyton Manning as your QB. )
Eagles have never had those things all together so they have never won.
by Gdog2009 on Nov 20, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree here
the reason the WCO isn’t working well for us is the fact that McNabb’s inconsistency/inaccuracy can be a liability in the short-passing game. If we had an accurate true West Coast QB, it could cover up the fact that we don’t run much
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 21, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
didnt Kolb excel in the short to mid
passing game??? just saying.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 21, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
yeah, I think my opinion on that is pretty well documented. Kolb doesn’t have the huge arm, but he does real well with that short-mid range
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Nov 21, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well I knew what you though on Kolb etc...
I was just letting everyone know we do have someone who is perfect for the WCO.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Nov 23, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ur missing something
a running game .. which we dont have
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by jack is better than asante on Nov 21, 2009 1:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A few things you left out...
…Reid is an incompetent moron and Banner is a jackass who doesn’t know shit about the game of football. And you need a running game. Other than that, you’re spot on.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 21, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t see how you can say those things with a straight face.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Nov 23, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We all want to throw our coaching staff out and start fresh.
This is an inaccurate assessment of the majority of the fanbase.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Nov 23, 2009 8:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
But a very accurate assessment of some.
Hi Whodie!
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 24, 2009 5:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All they can do is give them the tools the players have to execute.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Nov 25, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty Much
That’s just the battle cry of the overly-emotional fan, reppin’ about 5% of the fan base, just overly vocal.
by Mc5 on Nov 27, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a helluva lot higher than 5%.
Any poll of the fanbase would tell you that. I want Reid GONE. And so do lots of other folks.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 28, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with Reid
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Dec 1, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We all want to throw our coaching staff out and start fresh.
i dont , i dont at all …
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
If Football Had A Church , Brian Dawkins Would Be My Preacher. -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Nov 24, 2009 9:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
me either, as much as Reid frustrates me sometimes… i trust him.
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Nov 24, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah they're easy to blame
And yeah, everyone has a piece of the pie here but the factors that teams/coaches can’t control largely defines how successful a season is going to be… We got lucky and got red hot last year.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Nov 24, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do.
Andy Reid? Not a fan.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Nov 25, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 2008 Steeler Points
1. The Steeler’s line was underrated last year…the sack numbers have more to do with Roethlisberger trying to make a play and sometimes, holding onto the ball too long.
2. Their wide receiver corps was excellent (including Heath Miller at TE), running game was not-so-hot but M Moore was more than adequate and a multi-dimensional back.
3. The Steelers had one of the toughest, if not the toughest, schedule last year.
by Soren K on Nov 24, 2009 9:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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