Kolb vs. McNabb ...and let this be the finall word
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 11:55 AM EDT
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Alright folks.....First allow me to say that i AM a big McNabb fan. there with that outta the way let me clarify, I Love Donovan McNabb "the athlete" , ...I HATE Donovan McNabb the quarterback. The difference between the 2 is this. A quarter back Has 3 duties, 1) pass the ball ACCURATELY , and while McNabb has an INCREDIBLE arm his accuracey is at times suspect. 2) hand the ball off (thats really a no brainer a trained monkey could do that) 3) lead the team as an on feild general (which means he needs to THINK) McNabb has shown many times that his Iq at times is MORE than questionable. The cincy game, a timeout when we don't have any (oakland) not running up to the line and spiking the ball to stop the cclock (too many games too count). While some off you may be thinking I'm bashing our beloved DMAC , Im actually not. As I already stated Donny is one HELL of an athlete , his ability to pull plays outta his ass is unparralled. However so is Micheal Vicks...and would you want HIM calling our plays? I didnt think so.
Now as many people have pointed out, this is NOT entirely DMAC's fault. BECUASE he is such an athlete, Our esteamed head coach seems hell bent on using DMACS cannon ALLLLLLLLLL the time. this unfortunately is an
unfair burden to our Qb, due to the fact that it places ALL the responsiblity for being the playmaker on his shoulders(vs when Kolb,or Garcia is at the helm andy lets westy,djax, maclin etc. contribute) Now given this perfect storm of a headstrong head coach (ill be posting somthing on THAT subject later) and a highly talented but very inconsistent QB . It stands to reason that YES KOLB would be a better QB for the eagles due to the fact that he IS more accurate on the short pass, and ANDY IS more willing to run consistently, and KOLB ISNT as likely to make simple but unexcusable mistakes at crunch time. And if all this still isnt making sense let me make an equation outta it.
A+D=55/14 =-T.O.P.,-CC,BR=loss
A+K=50/50=+T.O.P,+CC,LR=win
Donovan McNabb
A-ANDY's PLAYCALLING
D-Donovan McNabb
K-Kevin Kolb
T.O.P. -time of possesion
CC-clock control
BR/LR- bigger/less risk factor
the ratio's are our run/pass depending on whos at the helm......
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KOLB ISNT as likely to make simple but unexcusable mistakes at crunch time
how do you know kolb’s Late game execution. He has never played in an eagles game that has been close. There is no way for us to assess his late game time management or “clutchness.”
Let's get it.
al the reports form his college years...
state that kolb has an excellent football IQ. Plus he doesnt seem to get “jittery” as easily as DMAC
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
+1, i hate when Mcnabb tries to make huge plays at unnesicery times too, id rather him just make the easy yarder 10 to the TE then try to make the 40 yarder in triple coverage. Kolb also plays possession time football too, he doesn’t always look end zone every play like dmac does.
+1, Five needs to hit those out patterns more often. He seems to be a big play guy to much.
He needs to be more consistent in driving the ball. If there is one think Kolb does, is drvie the ball consitently. He has done that since being an Eagle. But Kolb is not a threat to defenses, but he is a WR dream for a QB do to his touch on his pass. WR sometimes have problems with McNabb. He is a Great QB but lacks touch.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 26, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Kolb threw a critical intereception on that out pattern at the beginning of the second half of the Saints game. That pick is what buried us in the Saints game, Hobbs’ fumble hurt but the pick right after it broke us in half. All QBs make bad reads it happens if they didn’t you would see alot fewer INTs. The fact that McNabb has one of the lowest INT percentages amongst active players speaks for his decision making. Many of the long balls his missed Vs the Raiders were throws he was hurried on that he put a little further out so that if ANYONE caught it it would be his receiver.
actually ...
it could be stated that his INT percentages are due in fact to his bad throws being SO bad even the opposing defense cant snag ’em
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
true
that, and he just refuses to throw into remotely tight spaces. Its probably why he holds onto the ball so long
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Ironically, that was the main complaint about Kolb going into the season.
But now McNabb has a case of holding on the ball too long. In his defense, he has the best pocket presence that I have ever seen. Dude feels the rush well, and knows when to roll out and can not be arm tackled.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 26, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually
It is stated that his throws are low by design. That leads to harder catches for the receivers to make, but the ball does not ever sail above the receiver, when interceptions typically occur. Sure, there are passes that skip to receivers at times, but I prefer that over 2 extra receptions a game and an extra INT every three games.
He’s by far the first in this category among active players, by the way. The only quarterback ahead of him all-time is Steve Young.
I think Kolb will throw more picks, due to the fact that Kolb will throw more passes
into closer coverages.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 26, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
There are soo many ifs ands or buts....
Of course the QB will get blamed cuz he is on the field and trying to execute the play called in! If he succeeds he’s the man, if he fails he’s a bad QB! No matter if the play called is ludicrous or genus..the QB is the one who gets measured by the decision made by the coach.
Now, a QB has to make his own decision.."Do I run the play called or do I switch it up and try something different .! In Dmacs case, he mainly runs the play called. And thus when its a predictable call (Reid style) and does not work, Dmac catches heat for it!!
Not every QB has accuracy on his side. No QB is perfect, but u GOTTA assess ur self as a QB and know ur tendencies and weakness. Then u adjust ur game to steer clear of those negative habbits. When it come down to it, I LOVE DMAC but he needs to man up get in Reids face and or call audibles so save ur self for the BETTER of the TEAM.
very much agreed
i like the fact that your actually using a rational basis for your statement. So many people on here get so emotional over this subject that they forget to THINK. Thats the reason i put the equation up there . Further so many people think that saying Kolb would be better for us is instantly nocking DMAC, when in truth its not an insult to D’s abilty …just a staement hat Kolb might actually work better for multiple reasons….thaanks for the comment man its good stuff
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone watched the Raiders Video Rewind on Iggles Blog
There were quite a few examples of how poorly McNabb read the field. So many times he went for the long bomb to Jackson, Maclin etc. when there were receivers running slant routes down the middle the were WIDE open for an easy 15-20 yard game. Like ridiculously open. I encourage anyone who’s interested to take a look.
I am a big McNabb fan, but seeing that made rethink a few things. We have lived with McNabb having a bad game or two, but it wasn’t that his throws were off, it was him reading the field and not seeing the receivers open that worried me a bit.
Anyways, lets hope for a rebound game from #5 tomorrow.
I encourage you to read the whole thing
Quite a few interesting things!
by Team Serbia on Oct 25, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Serbia...
WOWWWW
This analysis is Heavy man….Glad u mentioned it! Geez……..
Im kinda at a loss for words but in all honesty and strangely, IM NOT SURPRISED !!!!!!!!!
I was just as surprised. I figured our WR’s were covered or didn’t have enough time to get open with Oaklands pass rush but seeing that, sort of made me upset that Dmac didn’t take more blame for the loss.
by Team Serbia on Oct 25, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with part of that assessment
Yes, McNabb did not play well. But, if he continues to make bad throw after bad throw, then Reid has to share some blame for continuing to throw. If you lower a bucket into a well full of piss, your are going to continue to get piss. You aren’t going to suddenly get clean drinking water. I believe it was Joe Banner who said that the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result .
My point is, both Reid and McNabb share the blame equally. The players must execute and the coach must adjust when things aren’t working.
Sometimes it's just fun to take the family for a spin around the lake in the old boat. Even if it's not your family or your boat, and they're screaming for you to stop.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Oct 25, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
that is why Andy kept on throwing. He said it was open, and we needed to execute.
That is why he kept going back to it. It should have worked.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 26, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Kolb is....
He’s the typical West Coast style QB. He excels in the short /intermediate passing game. AND he can go deep. Don’t know why fans keep sayin that “Kolb has a weak arm” when thats not correct. How many times has Kolb thrown deep in a game?! How can u assess his arm strength if he’s not taking multiple shots down field like Dmac. I strong arm is just that. A STRONG ARM. But an ACCURATE arm is deadly!!!! Until we see Kolb take MORE shots down field…we can’t say nuttn about Kolbs arm strength. .
I DO know that Kolb is ACCURATE and has beautiful touch on the football. We ALL witnessed Kolb catching Djax in stride PERFECTLY. Kolb is more suited for a Westcoast offense cuz he makes quick decisions /Decisive throws!! Again, I LOVE DMAC but Andy is NOT putting Dmac in the right position to make plays..And after 10 yrs Donnie must realize this and start callin his own shots.
ALRIGHT!!!!!WHO VOTED FRAKKIN IDIOIT?!!!!
im gonna hunt you all down and rape your car, burmn down your wife and steal your doggg!!!!!!!!just kiddin…i put that lil worm as bait….apparently theres a lot of sharks in these here waters hahahahaha
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
Its just too funny to not answer that man
HAHA
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on Oct 25, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
no prob
thats why i put it up there….gotta have a lil fun in life….
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a really nice fan post though man
better than most the other fan posts people post on here. I don’t necessarily agree with your stance on the issue but its really well thought out, and I cant even really say that your entirely wrong.
The way I look at it though is when you look at the best performance from this team with Kevin Kolb as the QB (Kansas City game) and the best performance from this team with Donovan McNabb at QB(Tampa Bay) I think that the McNabb lead team was the better team.
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on Oct 25, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't vote
I’m ok with you raping my car, just please leave my wife out of this.
Sometimes it's just fun to take the family for a spin around the lake in the old boat. Even if it's not your family or your boat, and they're screaming for you to stop.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Oct 25, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
can i steal your dog?
i was planning on giving it to JIBTA the poodle herder….hahahaha whats up baron?
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't have a dog
But we have a lot of deer where I live. You can have all the deer you want, they are a nuisance.
Sometimes it's just fun to take the family for a spin around the lake in the old boat. Even if it's not your family or your boat, and they're screaming for you to stop.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Oct 25, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We all have our opinions, being fans who can’t play at the highest of levels. Mine is that as passionate as Philly fans are, they really don’t know what is good for them, their teams, or their town. It’s easier to bitch about the guy who plays and glorify the guy who rides pine. All criticism needs to start and end with Andy and management. If McNabb is not the messiah you want heading your team, the only person in charge of making that adjustment is the head coach.
If McNabb sucks, it’s an extension of the coaching first and foremost.
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down... OH NOOOooo!
i fully agree...
The play calling is REIDs and MMs decision. Reid always says..“he needs to do a better job…blah blah blah…”! But we ALWAYS lose a game like we did last week in the same fashion. The playcallin and time management are horrible. We abandon the run and PASS PASS PASS! Everytime we have a loss like this, its always becuz of these factors. Dmac could call audibles and he should sometimes, but why does Reid put Dmac in situations like this constantly! It’s not an excuse for Donnie but, Reid is NOT HELPING THE SITUATION.!
And so if they get rid of Dmac the NEED to get rid of Reid..The teams play reflects the Coaching as J800
See....
The play calling is REIDs and MMs decision. Reid always says..“he needs to do a better job…blah blah blah…”! But we ALWAYS lose a game like we did last week in the same fashion. The playcallin and time management are horrible. We abandon the run and PASS PASS PASS! Everytime we have a loss like this, its always becuz of these factors. Dmac could call audibles and he should sometimes, but why does Reid put Dmac in situations like this constantly! It’s not an excuse for Donnie but, Reid is NOT HELPING THE SITUATION.!
And so if they get rid of Dmac the NEED to get rid of Reid..The teams play reflects the Coaching as J800
Pretty good things said in here
How anyone can still think McNabb is an elite QB after watching that video? And he ahs the audacity to blame it on the young guys. Thats my second biggest gripe — he’s the biggest diva. We can’t run the wild cat cause he cries, he always blames someone else, and his whole black/white spiel really ticked me off too… Another game like that and it’s time for Kolb era.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
amen joe...
and am i REALLY THAT MUCH OF A FRAKKIN IDIOT????!!!!! LOL
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm slowly getting there too
I’m having trouble giving up on Big Mac (which is why I flip flop), but I’m getting there.
With that said, I really do think it’s the game planning that fucks us more than McNabb personally.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
I am getting there as well.
In retrospect, Kolb played better against NOs better Defense. If not for 1 bad pass, we are in that game. Kolb totally crushed the Chiefs, and drove the ball more than McNabb has. Although McNabb has faced inferior defenses and did not perform as well, although he did OK vs the Bucks.
Sad to say, I may be pulling for Kolb soon enough.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
I'm not sure what the deal is
I wasn’t surprised about last week’s result. Not after the Antonio Pierce comments. I knew the Eagles would watch five minutes of prior game film on the Raiders and laugh, because honestly, who wouldn’t? They were pathetic.
The Eagles overlooked them. From Andy Reid right on down to Eldra Buckley (who we should be seeing more of), the Raiders were not given the time of day.
They got overconfident, and it bit them in the ass. Hard.
With that said, watch game film against the Cardinals. Watch it against the Buccaneers. This team, and this offense, is going to be perfectly fine, because the rest of the way is full of teams that a) are genuinely difficult matchups, or b) important divisional rivalries. We’ve shit the bed before against the Redskins, but after last week, you can expect the players will come out with a fire under their asses.
Overreacting is what fans are supposed to do after a dismal loss like last week’s. But I don’t expect any sort of recurring nightmare – take a step back, and just breathe.
I dont figure its an over reaction so much as...
weve seen this pattern before. We have atleast 3 seasons of us screamin at andy to balance the attack more, calling dor DMAC to work on his consitency. We always end up fooling ourselves into believeing that this duo is great, when thyre not. Theyre GOOd …but great teams come through in a clutch (bellichic/brady dungy/manning parcells/simms) . Andy and DMAC always bring us close but not over that line. So no its NOT overeaction its overdue frustration. but i agree we should( hopefully) play better from here on in
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
This is NOT an Overreaction as these SAME factors have been coming up season after season. As northern eagle said, we’re screamin at Reid to balance the offense more and for Dmac to be more consistent! This is not anything new. Overreacting would be if this happened ONE time in their career here as an Eagle! But that’s not the case. I has been a track record and its not getting fixed!
We’ll play better the rest of the season, but these SPECIFIC set backs almost ALWAYS haunt us again later. I want these set backs to get fixed so we can just move forward..I have faith in the players of this team, but I do NOT have faith in Reid to put them into the right positions!
I was getting over the loss
Until I watched the Jets dismantle Oakland.
We don’t know what we really have this year…but I’m actually worried.
Dallas looked good beating the Falcons.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
One comment
If WRs are getting open all over the place, why would Marty want to call run plays with a beat line?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
if for no other reason ...
than to give Donovan a lillllllll bit of breather tim between plays
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Because…
-Raiders were dead last in run defense
-McNabb was missing any wide open receivers
-Westbrook had 6 rushes for 50 yards, a 8.3 average. Take out his long? 5 for 25 yards and a 5.0 average.
-It sets up the playaction that is constantly called.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Kind of sad
to see the Jets completely REVERSE our play selection with 15 passes, and about 50 runs…and a 38-0 route.
DAMN F-ING STUPID GAME PLAN!!!!!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
What Matters?
Many ppl who post on this blog forget what is most important. Wins…Dmac Is a Great QB period. He WINS…..Its not always pretty but he is a winner. He wins in Playoffs and regular season @ a rate of 66%…….there are only 2 other qbs who have a better winning%……..so he overcomes all of his said deficinceys of lack of 2min scoring and inaccuracy…….Kolb may be better in the 2min drill or even more accurate, but until you tell me he will WIN more long term all of these stats you are posting mean nothing……..all you will have is another qb who looks pretty losing……..Give me Mcnabb ill take my chances with him any day
Our D has carried McNabb throughout his years here
Let’s be realist here — we’re not cheer leaders. Face the facts Mcnabb is a good qb, but not great. bottom line he’s too inconsistent for my liking.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Jim Johnson’s(r.i.p) defense carried Andy Reid all these years. Top 10 defense every year made Reid’s record look prettier than it really is.
Mcnabb : Career 86.0 passer rating. Nearly 30,000 yards passing, 199 TD 91 INT, 3000+ yards rushing, 27 rushing TDs.
If you don’t think that is fuckin’ great, let me take a hit of what you’re smoking buddy.
64% of us think this post is idiotic including me. 75% disagree so far. Wow.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
If your argument is going to be that he is not “clutch”, Jake Plummer was known as “clutch”, recorded 27 comeback victories, would you call him great?
Mcnabb is only inconsistent because of inconsistent coaching.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
hey route36
When was the last time you posting anything WORTH reading? I ’ll have you know alot of people agree with this post just scroll down the comments and look…and as for the 64% ….i can almost guarantee most did it to be funny….helll i wrote the post and i voted idiot on my own damn poll just to have fun
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 26, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe_D
Yes He is inconsistent and yes he WINS ……….focus….. the WRs have been terrible up until this year and now they r just rookies. Lets Be serious. Mcnabb exploded in the 2nd half of last yrs nfc chip gm and the same D that you are raving about gave up 24pts in the first half gave up What turned out to be the GWTD scoring Drive in the 2nd half AFTER MCNABB had brought them back……
I don't have the stats...so I'm going from my gut
McNabb doesn’t win close games. He either blows teams up, or struggles. The question I have is: Do we need to blow teams up?
I’m starting to wonder if Kolb would bring a consistency that might not win by as large a margin, but might not suck so badly either.
In the end would that produce more wins? I’m starting to think so. Let’s look at this year:
Carolina: Win 38-10…Kolb likely would have won b/c our offense hardly had to do anything.
NO: Kolb played well
KC: Kolb played well
Tampa: Win 33-14, maybe Kolb wins 21-14
Oak: I think Kolb would have won it b/c of a different game plan.
With Kolb as our QB our Points For and Against would be different, but I think we’re sitting at 4-1.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
I get where you’re coming from, and while it is highly likely that the game plan would have been more balanced with kolb under center, but it’s no use. AR is still firmly behind dmac and we still have a lot of games to play. Kolb’s time is coming and we’ve seen him play, but let’s be serious.. who really thinks kolb has a better chance of winning a close game rather than dmac?
I pray that we’ll run the ball more than 11 times tomorrow, but more importantly our line has to perform better than last week.
by notfromphilly on Oct 26, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Most of the time Mcnabb struggles because Reid is screwing up the play calling. I want you to look up the stats for Mcnabb, when Andy Reid runs a balanced offense and when he runs a one-dimensional PASS PASS PASS offense. Here are three awful results of what poor play calling does to the Eagles.
Cincinnati game: 58 passes, 14 rushes. TIE 13-13
Washington game: 46 passes, 12 rushes. LOSS 3-10
Oakland game: 46 passes, 11 rushes. LOSS 9-13
This year, against Tampa Bay, 14 tradition rushes by running backs and 21 pass attempts. The result? Mcnabb 16/21 264 yards, 3 TDs in 3 quarters. WIN 33-14
Give Mcnabb balanced play calling, then you see why he is one of the best to play the game.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
That's a new one...
When in doubt….let’s blame Marty!!!
I think it’s clear who the “retards” are in this post.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
It's not at all McNabb's fault the gameplan was shit and would have been different with Kolb
That falls on the coaches, and the coaches alone.
And I’m really quite sick of hearing how Kolb played well against New Orleans; he and Ellis Hobbs are the reason our defense got tired and couldn’t make any more plays. The number 391 means jack shit when you’re throwing against a prevent defense.
I agree it's not McNabb's fault
but the fact is…the game plan would have been different with Kolb in. A balanced game plan is what we need to win games. If it takes putting Kolb in to get that…I might be ready to accept that.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Oh, and Kolb wasn't bad against NO
I don’t care about the # either. He did have the one critical INT to start the 3rd…but he certainly wasn’t the reason we lost….
we’ve hashed this whole thing out before, and there were a host of reasons for that loss (special teams, defense, field position, turnovers)…I don’t think Kolb’s performance is one of them.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
What are McNabbs numbers vs inferior defenses
NO has a better defense that Tampa and Oakland, correct. But Kolb drove the ball consistently vs NO. He did better than Mark Sanchez did vs NO, and was the only real threat the Saints faced all year.
Plus the wildcat worked better with him in the helm.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
+1111111100000000000000000000
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 26, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Three interceptions against the Saints, including a pick-six, does not constitute a good game.
It’s actually a miserable game.
I think McNabb losses that game with far less numbers than Kolb.
What has McNabb done all year that allows you to discredit Kolb. Has McNabb faced any good defenses yet? NO. But yet he loss to the Raiders! Worse team than Kolb, had that been Kolb, he would never see the light of day now would he? Why should we discredit a guy who played well vs a better team? Don’t use senseless arguements.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
What has Kolb done...ever?
He beat the Chiefs.
Congratulations, Kevin. You beat the Chiefs.
McNabb single-handedly carried his team to the finish line in last year’s NFC Championship Game. All he needed was the defense to make any sort of a stop, and we win that game.
Oh, how quickly people forget. I’m done arguing this, because it’s not even a debate.
Did Kolb play bad? Common, when McNabb started in the league,
what did he ever do? Every player has to start somewhere.
Stop using stupid arguements. Anthing Anti Kolb right now is stupid, because its based on the fact that Donovan was so good. Why can’t they both be good? Just that Kolb has been very effective Lately.
How do you trash a man who played well. McNabb had a horrible game last week, and if you can’t admit that, than you are a moran. I am not anti McNabb, I am pro Eagles.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
McNabb did nothing to take us to the playoffs last year. This team rode the
backs of its defense and Brian Westbrook, like it does every year. Did you see last years games?
McNabb didn’t cost them game, but he certainley didn’t win them any either. Our defense was lights out down the stretch.
No one forgets McNabb, but Cunningham used to be the man, can we trot him out for a game or two. Times change brother, and we aren’t betting any better with McNabb. He’s got this year and thats it IMO.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
I've watched more game film of football in the last four months then you have in your lifetime
Don’t ask me if I watched the games. Spell ‘come on’ right. Spell ‘moron’ right.
When McNabb started in the league, so did the Eagles’ dominance. He started halfway through his first year, taking over for Doug Pederson, and then the next year he led the team to an 11-5 record. I know exactly what the hell McNabb did in his first few years in the league. Were you even born yet?
The bottom line is it was one damned game If, six days from now, the Eagles are meddling and it’s primarily McNabb’s fault, I will come back to this exact thread and respond to every one of the critics with a ‘You were right, I was wrong.’
Guess what? I won’t be doing that. And I won’t be doing that for the next two years, either. It’s the NFL. Shitty games happen. And quality players get over shitty games.
If spell check is your form of arguing football, than thats week.
So what, you watch some ESPN highlights. Pay attention to the game, anyone who did knows McNabb wasn’t the reason we won last year. Heck, when we played Washington and needed a win to get in, he came up short. We got lucky last year.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
Also, the Eagles have proven that they can win without McNabb.
This is because the offense is simplified and they resort to shorter easier passes. And they call more runs when McNabb is out. Granted, the play calling isn’t his fault, and no one is arguing if McNabb is good. I think he is a HOFer. But his accuracy is a problem and is unwillingness to make passes in small places is starting to fester a little.
I hope McNabb wins a bowl here. But I saw nothing from Kolb that shows me he can’t play. Trust me, I have seen some bad QB in my day, and Kolb isn’t one of them. I don’t think he will be a probowler or anything like that, but he is efficient and is a good system guy. Thats what we need right now, a good steady QB , not a big play guy.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
You, earlier:
The number 391 means jack shit when you’re throwing against a prevent defense.
It goes both ways, buddy. If he only threw 300 yards because of garbage time, then he only threw two meaningless picks in garbage time.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Second pick was by Darren Sharper, when the Eagles were inside the 20. You know, when bunching up guys around the fields actually work. And the third one was after Andy Reid called a timeout with 7 seconds left and all Kolb did was throw a jump ball that a Saints player caught.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
It's still a prevent defense
It’s called ‘the flats’ or ‘between the hashmarks’. Which, oddly enough, is exactly why he threw to Celek so much.
Guess what? He should have done it more.
The third-quarter interception was the dagger. The fumble was terrible, and I absolutely did not remove any sort of blame from Ellis Hobbs, but the interception effectively ended the game.
I like my quarterbacks to keep the team in the game enough for four quarters of competitive football. And I can sit here and say, without hesitation, that game is closer if McNabb is under center instead of Kolb.
It’s called ‘the flats’ or ‘between the hashmarks’. Which, oddly enough, is exactly why he threw to Celek so much.
Guess what? He should have done it more.
That’s hilarious. He WAS throwing to Celek when Sharper picked him off. So, basically, he doing the smart and Sharper just made a great play.
The third-quarter interception was the dagger. The fumble was terrible, and I absolutely did not remove any sort of blame from Ellis Hobbs, but the interception effectively ended the game.
The game WAS over after Hobbs’ fumble. That put the Saints up by 14.
You think the Saints are blowing a 14 point led even if we had Joe Montana under center? Uh, no.
And I can sit here and say, without hesitation, that game is closer if McNabb is under center instead of Kolb.
Um. Sure. Whatever you want to believe.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Amazing.
That’s hilarious. He WAS throwing to Celek when Sharper picked him off. So, basically, he doing the smart and Sharper just made a great play.
Apparently, sarcasm is completely lost on you.
The game WAS over after Hobbs’ fumble. That put the Saints up by 14.
You think the Saints are blowing a 14 point led even if we had Joe Montana under center? Uh, no.
They were down by 11.
And right, no one’s coming back on the Saints, because this year’s New Orleans Saints is the greatest collection of players to ever play! Give me a break.
Um. Sure. Whatever you want to believe.
I’ve got nine years of watching McNabb play, not to mention extensive experience with the game of football as a player and a coach, to come to my conclusion. Yeah, I’ll believe in that.
They were down by 11 And right, no one’s coming back on the Saints, because this year’s New Orleans Saints is the greatest collection of players to ever play! Give me a break..
How often do you see a comeback on Peyton Manning? Tom Brady? Want to know why? They score too many bloody points. Samething with Drew Brees.
Not to mention, we stop them only two times in first half and I don’t think we stop them until end of the fourth when they were just trying to run out the clock.
The fumble lost us the game. Interception didn’t help, but it didn’t cost us a game.
I’ve got nine years of watching McNabb play, not to mention extensive experience with the game of football as a player and a coach, to come to my conclusion. Yeah, I’ll believe in that.
You will honestly believe a guy who had broken rips would play better than a 100% Kevin Kolb?
K. Have fun with that.
And fine, say McNabb plays 100% healthy. You say we be closer. But what stopping McNabb from having a game against the Raiders?
It’s all speculation. Don’t bother with it.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
Okay, this is really the last time
The fumble lost us the game. Interception didn’t help, but it didn’t cost us a game.
We’ll agree to disagree. 11 points is a surmountable lead, even against the God of Hot Reads.
And fine, say McNabb plays 100% healthy.
I was under the impression that was the assumption.
You say we be closer.
I say dat, ya.
But what stopping McNabb from having a game against the Raiders?
Nothing. The playcalling was atrocious. McNabb was obviously getting hammered or rushed in the pocket enough to get rattled, and with the rib injury still very vivid in his mind, he let it get the better of him. That doesn’t mean I think McNabb is no longer capable, or I believe the coaches did the right thing by constantly throwing the ball. It means I believe McNabb had a bad game.
One. Bad. Game. That we would have won had we handed the ball off at the end of the game with any type of regularity. It was the perfect storm of shit, and it got the better of us. But I’m happy it’s over with sooner rather then later, because ever since Marty was installed as the offensive playcaller, this has happened once a year. He figures it out after the game in question, but it’s an irritating, nauseating trend.
It’s all speculation. Don’t bother with it.
Now where’s the fun in that?
You people are fairweather as shit. When the Eagles lose you trash the best players on the team, and when the Eagles win you act like you never trashed them. Fucking man up. You’ll all flip flop again, and again, and again. It will never end. Instead of going through this routine every year, why don’t you just admit that you’re reactionary and take up some hobby to get you through the week like shuffleboard or coin collecting?
Oh hey look heres some posts from Joe D from a month ago:
“I think McNabb is slightly better than Trent Green in his prime.” “He’s the best QB on this roster and a top 10 QB”
From the thread starter:
“McNabb IS as good as brees IMHO”
jalarsen1, who thinks kolb would win more games, had this to say 8 DAYS AGO:
“I’m going to definitely agree that Peyton’s the best in game. Brees is lights out! Brady is still Brady. And (as an Eagles homer) I’d have to put McNabb next in that line up”
Before criticizing McNabb’s inconsistency, how about dealing with the inconsistency of your own opinions?
My opinion
is as inconsistent as McNabb’s game. I’m loyal to the TEAM, not necessarily the players. If a guy isn’t performing, of course I’ll call him out! Why wouldn’t I? Does that make me a fairweather fan? No.
I’m as big a fan of the Eagles as there is. I spend way too much time blogging/thinking about the stupid game of football and way more money on football related ‘stuff’ than anyone with a balanced and well prioritized life ought to.
So if my reaction happens to be more emotional than yours, maybe it’s rather because we have different personalities and we express our frustrations differently.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Particularly on McNabb
Yes, I flip-flop. I kinda hate that I do. I give him the benefit of the doubt one week, decide to stand behind him, and I get screwed! It’s frustrating!
With that said, he isn’t going to play forever, and there will be a point when you believe that he is no longer the best QB to lead the team. When you reach that point, it will be a tough transition between the loyalty that you’ve had, and the belief that it’s time to move on.
I don’t know if I’m there yet…I’m starting to think I might be, but I’m not sure…hence my inconsistency.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Changing your opinion after just 1 week and game isn’t the trait of a true fan. Yes, Mcnabb played bad last week but it was an effect of poor game planning and coaching by Reid. You dont turn your back on a player that gave us over a decade of hall of fame caliber play with a 65% winning percentage after 1 damn loss. That’s just stupid any way you look at it.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
by Route36 on Oct 26, 2009 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If this was the first of these games
then, yes. You’re right, and it’s stupid. But let’s not pretend like the Oakland game was one bad game in the middle of a Golden Age.
I like McNabb. He’s a brilliant athlete, and he can be a good QB. But he can also be a bad QB. I’ve waivered on him for a while now…so no…it’s not just ‘one damn loss’.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
At the end of the day
I just want to win games. I think we need a balanced game plan to win games. I think Andy won’t commit to a balanced game plan with McNabb under center. It’s not that I’m down on McNabb necessarily, it’s just that I want to see a better game plan and if it takes Kolb to get there…I might be ready for that.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Sorry
the “Particularly on McNabb” post was also a reply to you
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
McNabb vs. Kolb?
Seriously? Donovan is a potential Hall of Famer and you want to replace him with KEVIN KOLB? You want consistency of opinion? You’ll get it from me on Kolb. I don’t like him. I never have. I never will. He’s a flaccid arm system QB who can’t hold Donovan’s jock strap or win any of the games that Donovan lost. If Kolb is our QB against Oakland, we get waxed 28-0. The fat man costs us many more games than Donovan does and most of Donovan’s troubles have to do with him trying to make up for the sins of fat Andy by trying to make big plays happen. Amen.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Oct 26, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed evil
if any one here actually cuaght the point of this post it was more a slam on andy than anything else…..BUT THATS WHY i want kolb….andy’s so infatuated with DMAC taht he cant see the forest for the trees. With Kolb in there andy starts thinking like a head coach again not a mancrushed fatso
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 26, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I'm with you
It’s not that I think Kolb is the better QB. It’s that we need a BALANCED GAME PLAN, and that may only happen if Kolb is under center. If that’s what it takes…I think I might be there.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Agreed
Kolb won’t win any games that McNabb lost. Kolb might not win any games because all we would need him to do is get rid of the ball quickly. We just might have enough playmakers that we don’t need the QB to win. If I think Kolb is better, it’s not that I think he’s a better QB, it’s that I think Andy would come up with a better game plan that puts all the players in better positions to win
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
I understand where you're coming from, but think about it a bit more.
Let’s Kolb gets the job. We go for a couple weeks of balanced playcalling and we win handily. It’s probable that if all goes according to plan Kolb puts up near or above 300 yard numbers thanks to DJax, Mac and Celek. Now, if that happened, what would stop Reid and Marty from shifting back to their passing ways? “Hey, look how successful we are with Kolb. Let’s start getting at these secondaries more.” Kolb doesn’t have the arm of McNabb, but it’s still decently strong. Strong enough to tempt Reid into throwing deep or just plain throwing more. Once that happens, any advantage the Eagles may have gained with the playcalling will once again be non-existent. The fact of the matter is, that change won’t happen unless Reid makes it happen. And Reid won’t make it happen unless he thinks Kolb gives them a better chance to win. But Reid isn’t purposefully going to trick himself; he’s just going to gameplan as he always does. In other words, if Kolb actually does get the start on his own merits (not by a McNabb injury) the gameplan most likely won’t change much if at all. Kolb may be the next great QB in the NFL with a HOF future, but he, himself (not gameplans or head-coach tricking), does not give us a better chance to win right now. Until that happens it should be McNabb under center.
I think Kolbs limitations cause Andy to scale back the stupidity. For that alone, Kolb has value.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
he was a HOF, he isn't a probowler this year. Common Banner.
Pedro Martinez won Cy Youngs in past, is he still the Pedro of past? McNabb is a good QB, not a probowler anymore. Maybe he can pad his stats vs a bad team in the future, but if Kolb did that, his numbers don’t count. Thats just stupid.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
Fuck this balanced game plan shit!
We’re not even the most imbalanced team!!! We had a shitty O-line, and WRs were getting OPEN ALL over the place. It’s the players job to execute..
OF COURSE we ran it more in TB.. we were BLOWING THEM OUT! you run when you’re trying to run the clock not win the game!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
You also run
so you aren’t one dimensional, to loosen the pass-rush, or simply because the pass isn’t working.
Absolutely you run to control the clock…but we were throwing as if we were in a huge deficit. We only needed one scoring drive.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
dingus
Why would we stop throwing when our WRs WERE GETTING OPEN DOWN FIELD!?!?!?!?!?!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
because it wasn't working
our line wasn’t giving McNabb enough time to get set, and he wasn’t delivering accurate balls
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Oct 26, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
fuck face
do you think if the O-line wasn’t blocking well WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY RUN IT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Do you think they would magically BLOW up holes for Westbrook when they coudln’t protect well? Even when McNabb had time to throw he still threw it into the dirt. Did you not see the video?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
11 rushes 63 yards.
Mcnabb throwing into the dirt gives you more reason to run the ball, not keep passing because it obviously wasn’t working. Pipe down with the name calling.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
Since 2005: Andy Reid 36-32-1; 7-25-1 when tied or losing at halftime.
SO if McNabb was sucking
Why can’t you just say that instead of having blind faith in him?
Some in this thread have admitted that he wasn’t a clutch QB but still want him to be the starter.. UH… Being clutch is a HUGE part of being a successful QB hence all the pukes
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
1st...don't call me fuck face...this isn't personal
Even when McNabb had time to throw he still threw it into the dirt
This is kinda the point I’ve been trying to make. The pass wasn’t working.
o you think if the O-line wasn’t blocking well WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY RUN IT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Run blocking is COMPLETELY different that pass-blocking, you can’t even compare the two.
Do you think they would magically BLOW up holes for Westbrook when they coudln’t protect well?
Well, I don’t think it would be MAGIC, but blowing up holes and protecting the QB are different games. They clearly weren’t protecting the QB, but in a lot of cases, that’s exactly when you should run. Guys coming at a QB are likely to over pursue a runner, and if you commit a LB or two to the blitz, there are fewer in the secondary to catch your RB when he gets there. So yeah, 11 rushes for 63 yards, coupled with poor pass protection seems to say run
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Add more question marks, exclamation points, and derogatory names to your arguments.
It doesn’t change the fact you’re dead wrong and apparently don’t know football.
agreed, That was Andy's thinking, dudes where WIDE Open.
Five has gotta hit a least 1 quick out.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
Please do not pull McNabb
I’d be worried about an Eagle team led by a good QB and what they could do in the playoffs.
by Lombardi.times.5 on Oct 26, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
thank you EAGLES_need_to_RUN couldnt have said it better
I guess the simple way to sum this up is that Andy and Marty bring out the worst in McNabb and that he brings out the worst in them.
Would things be different with Kevin Kolb at QB? Who knows. We have way too small a sample to make an accurate judgment.
In summary, what we have is a head coach and offensive coordinator (AR and MM), implementing a pass happy offense that would work best with a QB that is consistently accurate and has good field awareness. Donovan does not appear to have either of these qualities. However, instead of crafting out a game plan/offense to maximize Donovan’s individual abilities, AR and MM refuse to do this and continue to try to force a square peg into a round hole.
I doubt that this strategy will be good enough to win a SB. But who knows….maybe we’ll get lucky.
by Eagles need to run on Oct 25, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
why not???????????????
give dmac (who i happen to believe is a complete loser… despite having great physical skills… its my opinion and it will never change no matter how many stats you throw at me!!!!) 1 or 2 more starts this year to find a way to sustain drives… if he can do that, great, let him keep his job…. if he continues to suck (which i believe will be the case) then give kolb a chance… let him finish the season… if he turns out to be great, then all eagles fans are winners for it… if he also is a bust, then its time to move on and find another qb for the future… right now all we have is a not very bright guy with a cannon arm who can’t get the job done consistently enough and a relatively unknown… let’s get some clarity… its a win win!!!!
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